 It's not about quantity, it's always about quality. So good morning everyone. My name is Frank, I'm with Wiki Education Foundation, we're based in California and I'm here with Susanna from Armenia and Philip from Serbia and we're going to talk about the future of wiki in education and we're going to present the results. So our session has three parts. The first part is we're going to talk about the research that has been undertaken in May and in June with the intention of do we need a hub? What does the future of wikipedia and education look like? That is the first part. And then the second part is we're going to talk about what came out of the education conference, Ecewiki and Belgrade, that also happened in May, right? That was also May in Serbia, it was a fantastic conference and we're going to talk about some of the results. And then the third part is really we want to engage you in a conversation. So let's say there was some kind of support structure that would support educators and people who are running education programs around the world in the future. What would that structure do? How could that structure best support people in year one? What are the priorities? What do you need? And so three parts. I'm going to take the first part and to be honest, this is not something that I did or someone at wikipedia education did. We had Jan Konelius, from Germany doing this research. So I present someone else's result, keep that in mind. And as I said, it's a research project and it's a needs assessment for this community. And the idea is, do we even need a structure, right? Like I think we have education programs in more than 80 countries around the world. And some of them are smaller, some of them are bigger. Some of them are focused on reading wikipedia. Some of them are in high schools. Some of them are in higher education. And like that's a very diverse landscape. And so the project, as I mentioned, it was a very short project, right? May and June, only two months. And it's based on 30 interviews with education program leaders like some of them are here. And two community discussions at the Edge of wiki conference in Valgrade that I already mentioned. And here are the results. I think these are six sections. And one of the things that I already mentioned is education or working with wikipedia or wiki data and education in different countries of the world might look very different. And so what people are doing in Peru or in Argentina, in Serbia and in the United States, those might be things that are very different in nature. And we haven't been in the beginning when we're talking about education programs. We haven't been very clear on what that means. And there are, in some areas, there's overlap with what people call GLAM, with galleries, libraries, museums and archives. And in order for a structure, I mean, this is kind of a no brainer, right? Like in order for a structure to support wikipedia or wiki and education, we would need to know what is the definition of that? What is within the scope of a potential support structure? What is not within the scope? The second part is, there is a, I mean, this is kind of almost like a no brainer, right? There is a dire need for more coordination, knowledge and support. And what does that look like? As I said, the programmatic activities are very different in the nature. And the support that people need really depends on what their local context is, right? For some people, better tools might be what they need. For other people, there might be people in parts of the world that want to start an education program that are really early in that development and who want to know and learn from others, right? That's a very different need. And then the existing support structures, they're very limited in capacity and resources. What does that mean? Currently, I would say, three players that provide resources. The Wikimedia Foundation had an education team. It's mostly the user group, actually, the education user group that is, I think, even the biggest user group in the Wikimedia universe, and they're providing support. And then my organization, Wikimedia Education Foundation in California, is also providing support. And currently, there are things that could be done better and more efficiently if there was a support structure that would be dedicated to providing help. So coordination, sharing knowledge, direct support capacity building. Just imagine, right, like the Edge of Wiki conference in Belgrade. It's a huge undertaking to organize a conference like that every year. We could be very, we were very happy that Wikimedia Serbia was taking that on this year and yet at the same time, it's very hard on volunteers to pull off a large conference like that. And so having more support would be really helpful. And maintenance and advocacy for tech. So these are two different things, right? The first one is really like, what are the tools that people were running education programs around the world that they need? Some of you might be using the programs and events dashboard that Wikimedia Education Foundation is providing. I've heard at the conference in Belgrade, for example, that it's not always reliable. There is like, there are really dire documentation needs. The tool exists and I can do certain things, but people not always do they know how to do certain things? And so there is a documentation need. And then the data analysis for metrics is also currently seems to be insufficient. So these are all results that come out of those interviews, right? That's what people have said. And then some people also said comments has technical limitations. I don't know how many of you have ever tried to upload a video on comments. That's a thing that I hope is going to change. I mean, I personally also hope it's going to change because I think visuals in Wikimedia articles would benefit a great deal from that. And then there's a second aspect, right? Currently the organization that is that is really doing most of the tech development in the Wikimedia universe is the Wikimedia Foundation. And so we're a very strong community, the education community within the Wikimedia Universe is very, very strong. This is so many people are doing this, right? And so some people said, let's give that community a better voice when it comes to what are the things that the Wikimedia Foundation should prioritize, right? So that is something that a structure could do. And other things like a learning platform having specific file formats on comments to be able to be uploaded there that are currently not supported. And then program size and context determine further specific needs. I've already mentioned that a little bit, like context is always very important, right? You have, I talked to someone at the conference from Morocco, sometimes it's just about things like access to computers, whereas what is access to computers in Morocco might be something very different in the United States. There are very different needs depending on which your local context is that you're operating in and it also depends on whether you're running a small program or a large program and many, many, many different things. And innovation was one of the topics that came up. How do we innovate? Are we doing, like, are we strategic in how we innovate? How do we share our learnings from innovative new projects? And then programmatic loneliness, I think that's a very interesting term, right? There's some people in some countries who are just one person, right? Some people here are nodding, right? So you know what I'm talking about and, like, you don't have a large team of people behind you. You're the only one who might be running that program with the help of volunteers, perhaps. So, like, how can we bring people together? There's already that mentorship program that the Wikipedia education user group is running and how can we make that go away that we feel like we're lonely in our efforts? And then emerging communities, I've already mentioned that a little bit. There's all kinds of needs, right? It starts with funding, with knowledge sharing, just the promotion of Wikipedia itself, right? There might be some countries where, like, it's not so well-known or people say, no, don't go away. I don't want to have anything to do with Wikipedia, right? Like, so emerging communities is one of the very specific areas that a structure, be it a hub or something else, whatever we call it, could support. And then, and I said it's six points. So I'm rushing through this a little bit because I want to have, like, I'm really glad that we have a couple of people here in the room and we want to have a conversation with you. This is not supposed to be, I think it was, in the program, it was even called Roundtable. So, we don't want to take too much airspace here. We want to keep this really short. And so, opportunities for collaboration, international collaboration as a source of motivation. I think that's very important, right? Like, if you know that others, and Wikimedia is kind of one of those places and one of those spaces where we can talk to each other and where we can see, hey, other people are also doing the same thing. They might have the same challenges, right? And so, there's a lot of things that we can do when we work together. And what else here? So, we're talking for recognition of education programs within Wikimedia itself, right? Let's talk about what we're doing. Let's make people aware of what the benefits are and how that is meaningful for the Wikimedia movement. And then, and that's my last point. And then I'm going to hand it over to, I think, Susanna, right? Like, you're going to talk about, or the two of you, you're going to talk about the results from the conference and background, emerging patterns for a future structure. So, and this is kind of, to be honest, like, I think this confirms what some people already thought was true. That there is a need for a future structure. And that if we had a structure, a hub that could make things easier and better for people, it could provide that support. And so, when, in those interviews and those, when these 30 people from many different parts of the world, when they got interviewed, they said, no, we want that structure to be created. But, and that is really, really important. Because the equity and inclusion have to be built in right from the start. We need to keep that in mind. That is something that we should never forget that this is something that is very important value to be built in. And then, and then, of course, there's these are like, for those of you who are familiar with this topic of hubs, they're also regional structures. So, how does that work if there's a thematic hub? This would be, if this would be created, it would be the first thematic hub, right? Like we don't have a thematic hub so far. And we were in this together. We're learning kind of on the, while we're, while we're building that plane, we're also flying it, right? And so, the idea here is that we need to learn how the thematic organization like an education hub, how that organization works with the regional organizations that are running the education programs. Very important part. And now we're going to talk about Belgrade. Yeah. Hi, everyone. Thank you. I'm Philip from Wikimedia Serbia. But more importantly, maybe Wikipedian Education User Group. I'm the former chair now, just a regular member of the board, of both boards. But I wanted to spend a minute maybe just to talk about the conference itself as, from the point of view of the organizer. It was a daunting task. And some of you might know that. I see Galdar, who's already organized a Duike conference before. So these efforts before have been sort of organized by individuals and or individual organizations without any, without too much, let's say, systematic approach. And Wikimedia Foundation had organized previously education conferences, etc. So with this event, we tried to start this string of events that will become sort of a systematic approach. And we do want as a user group and probably even hub at some point, we want to organize these events and on a regular basis and offer a place for people within the education world and within the Wikimedia ecosystem to discuss, to thrive, to talk about a lot of different things. This is what it looked like. It was a daunting task to organize a conference for 100 people. Of course, this conference is much, much bigger. But this was a very, as I said, daunting task and but we relied on Wikimedia Serbia staff and it was really, really good to see so many people and to engage in many discussions and Susanna will talk about that quite soon because I was on the organizing side, I didn't get to enjoy the conference as much as I would have liked. So I won't talk about the program results, the event content results. But what I want to say is that the research that Frank had gone through, that had presented is available on Meta but also on our user group YouTube channel. So Wikimedia Ampersand Education user group, that's our channel on YouTube and you can find not only the Cornelius' presentation from our open meeting which lasts about an hour so you can see the presentation in much more detail but also we have all the sessions that were recorded on that channel as well from the conference. So if you miss the conference, you don't necessarily have to miss the content. You can just go there and watch everything that was streamed, so in good quality as well. So yes, that's it for me, Susanna, take it away. Hello, I am Susanna from Wikimedia Armenia and Wikimedia Education user group. Sorry for my voice, I was a little bit sick. During the conference we explored that five types of educational programs are going around the world. Mostly the program Wikimedia Educational Foundation built with Dashboard. This program is using several affiliates and more in universities as well. Really, Wikimedia in the classroom, this is what the Foundation Educational Team is doing in Africa, mostly in Nigeria. Also, you know that Wikiclubs and Wikicamps started Wikimedia Armenia and then some affiliates copied both projects. But I would like to say that Wikiclub and Wikicamp, it is an ecosystem of educational ecosystem that we are running because Wikiclubs are doing all year, around all year, and then the best students who earn more marks, they presented the ticket to Wikicamp. That's also Wikimedia Armenia is doing training for teachers for almost eight years. It is a very, very useful project because if you are an educator, you will understand how important it is for teachers, lecturers to be permanent, learning for them, all-time, long-life learning. We asked people what they need for educational programs and the result of their finances, awareness, lack of interest among professionals, lack of government support. Also, one of the conclusions was that we need international teachers' camp, conferences, educational, even everybody during a conference, they are saying that what kind of great conference is this, we need this every year. Also, it is, many people said that it is my opinion for sure, we need Wikipedia handbooks. And for teachers to go with it, to teach students, even during their lessons. Also, we need database to know what is going, link the database, I think, what is going in every region, every school, where there are educational programs. Also, what we need to achieve with an educational program. My opinion about this is that education needs more Wikipedia than Wikipedia needs education. Because you know what is going on in education now, everywhere. During lessons, during work, education, Wikipediting, students learn how to formulate their thoughts, mostly even university graduate students, sometimes they can't formulate their thoughts precisely. Also, as I said, permanent self-education for teachers to be in current, in touch with current situation, in education and in news, in their field of research, etc. Also, creative learning for students. I think it will be better if the school curriculum will include Wikipedia editing, or at least be part of the subject of informatics. In every school now, there is a subject of informatics, but after that, students don't know what to do. Wikipedia is the best place to be in touch with computers. It will help them more know and also get more knowledge. Eventually, what kind of support or resources we need, which doesn't exist. As I said, they are the best of education programs around the world, what is going on in every local place. Wikipedia textbooks, research and monitoring the area, what I mean with this. There are going a lot of educational programs, but what is successful, what is not. Also, what can be copied and just do documentation for each one is best. For this, we need a centralized group for research to do what is going on in education, and to be done what was worst, and also to go more deeper to schools, universities. We need publishing and advertising achievements of Wikipedia editing for students in order to enhance awareness about the creative education through Wikipedia. We are not Wikipedia, but we have an Armenian paradigm project that is a teacher camp. It was so great that I was thinking why we can do this. That's why I was thinking because Wikimania is good, but if people with the same goal came together, it is another story and more successful. Also, doing all this, I am sure that we need to organize HUB, but we need, during the working HUB, enhanced status of Wikipedia and educational HUB to be more seen over the world, and that educator and all who is connected to education understand that it is the way to enhance education in all countries. Also, it is important that maybe some countries have higher education, but with education through Wikipedia, it gives opportunity to low development countries also do the same. It's very important. My other thought is that we need a journal to advertise all work during the year. Maybe what HUB or local communities will do on Wikipedia and education. Thank you. Thank you, Susanna. So this was an overview of a lot of different things that were discussed during the conference, but now we want to hear from you. How do you see the future of education, and especially if HUB was to be formed? Which project should we prioritize in the first year? So this is an open floor. Frank, come here. I'm trying to moderate, but if there are any initial thoughts, then we can progress from there. Hello. Okay, we have two mics. Oh, there's a third. So who would like to start? If you had to prioritize something that is your biggest need, what would that be? Thank you. I think working in a journal, it will be great because at least in Spain, I don't have much places where I can publish my research about education and Wiki. And also we need to publish during our research career, so it will be great, at least for me. I mean, I'll make this short because a lot of people here have already heard me talk a lot about Wiki journals, but one potential possibility is that Wiki media and education fits within the current scope of Wiki Journal of Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences. So conceivably that might be an avenue for a once a year special issue on the topic or continuous publishing. I'm open to kind of continuing discussions on that side of things. Great, plus one for journal. I would like to prioritize this that you can publish in Wiki Journal and then people. People will. Yes, we have a comment here. Thank you. Publishing in Wiki Journal is a great possibility. I didn't know it existed, so I will explore this since now. As a teacher, I found that writing an article about education with about my experience with Wikipedia was not easy because I'm not an specialist in education. So perhaps sharing our experiences to build together publications about them to share with the help of people that know what is important for educational sciences. You know what I mean? I had problems. I submitted one article once and it was rejected. Then I realized that I didn't know how was the state of knowledge in educational sciences and then began to rethink things. But maybe if we share experiences, we can build meaningful articles together. I don't know. Yeah, for sure. Collaboration has always proven to be a valid method of progressing, got it? So I'm not against the journal thing. Furthermore, I agree. But I really don't get the complete idea of the haps. Not of education haps, haps, what they're going to replace or how it's going to work. So for me, there are some, there are a lot of aspects, not only in Susana's presentation, also before we had other problems. One of them is knowledge that Wikipedia or Wikimedia in general can be used for education purposes. And I think that one of the global things we should think if we are going to make a hap is how we promote ourselves. I mean, how do we talk about what we are doing in my experience? And I think, I know it's local and I know it's different and it's different in every place in the world. But in my experience, one of our great achievements has been that people know what we are doing via social media, via newsletters, via ETC. So for me, for example, Wikimedia Foundation has a great potential. I mean, Wikipedia is very known worldwide somehow in places more than others. Wikimedia Foundation knows so much. But for example, there was no one on communications on the Belgrade conference. So how will people know what we are doing if we are not talking about what we are doing worldwide? I mean, we were there like 100 people and our only outreach was what we were doing personally in front of our personal social media accounts. So how we handle this, how we talk about what we are doing, not only us reporting. I know that there is a newsletter and we have to produce content. How does the world know that education and Wikipedia match together and they match together so well is something that should be promoting somehow? And I know that there is no global press. I mean, there are a lot of other issues, but how do we know? It's not how I know that in Armenia they have Wikiklubs because I'm interested in this topic. It's how a teacher who doesn't know me know that the Wikiklub is actually a thing. I don't know how I can help also on this, but I think that it can give us resources to better know what we are doing together. You're talking about visibility and the fact that we are not as visible as we should be and that as a global movement and especially a bunch of people interested in education, we should promote ourselves more liberally and reach more audiences. I just want to emphasize what Galder just said. Most times we talk about Wikipedia and education. That's a conversation between Wikipedians or Wikimediands and we should talk more with educators. So creating awareness within the educational community I think is key for this. Yeah, I agree. I think there's evil. I think different affiliates deal with that in a different way. So we didn't or haven't had a global strategy towards including more educators, but every affiliate has their own approach to dealing with their own locale, right? And that is a valid weight of approaching it, but I think the point is well taken that we should include more educators in higher thinking. You had a slide up that said that had suggestions. It was a blue slide and it included training of teachers camps. Go back. That was the one. So this list of all of these, and I thought all of them were fabulous, but the teachers camp for Wikipedia and Wikipedia teacher training got me particularly excited because I'm from Australia but I have a research project in Bhutan to try and build the Zonka Wikipedia. And I've done workshops with the teachers, but it's what you were pointing out about about this understanding of how Wikipedia and education just do match. There's so much potential and it needs sort of a bigger, more holistic view to present to them and I can't do that. So the idea of some of, and they would, you know, the university there would sponsor people to go. So for Zonka Wikipedia to work in Bhutan, it needs more content. It only has 100 stubs at the moment. It needs more content and this would be such a good way that their students can be doing so much and it would be brilliant. So if there was a teachers camp that was attendable, that would be wonderful. But recent years we are doing online teachers training, 10 days, and who is more editing, who is more editing, have more contribution, they invited to Wikipedia camp. I think it helps a lot. Also there is a case that English teacher was translating article from English to Armenian and her article was deleted due to bad translation. And in times we explained her and she became more good translator and she is happy in continued translation because her English enhanced. Okay, just for the line for this sort of communication about what we do and how to be more visible, then some of the things I've done in Estonia in the sense that they're really trying to set up wikipages or all sorts of articles. And if someone would let's say Google Wikipedia or education together, they would find out that oh, there are so many universities and schools in Estonia doing all of this great work. And there are articles about people who have done it, interviews with those educators and their experience. And I think this is something where actually for a hub it's super difficult to help. It's something that has to be done locally. And I think this is something that really people in whatever countries need to think about like how can we reach out to those people, how can we promote those people. And the same time for this cooperation building is like in Estonia our I would say main partner over the years has been university, specifically University of Tartu, but they have significantly helped us to promote Wikipedia. And I mean this is something again that we cannot do let's say internationally, but this is more of this local part. So in here occasionally we might mix up things that we maybe want to happen and are expecting this from let's say abroad, but it is actually we should be aiming for fixing those gaps in this knowledge or this information sharing. Thank you. We had Ivana and I think you're going to go first. I just want to add up to your comment. So in Serbia we also have accredited seminars, especially for teachers. It's a part of their professional development. Some of the chapters affiliates or user groups have the capacities to a credit seminars for them. It's really nice because they're actually it's not just educating them, but also these recommendations that is there are important in that networking of teachers. So you can proceed your work in education. And also I want to add on your comment gather regarding the media. I sometimes think I think that most of our work, especially for example at the wiki conference in Belgrade is kind of an internal and when we share our stories. It's most of us learning from each other. And I think the hub might be helpful in that way that it can be umbrella under, you know, working this media things on local global level. So for us, for example, we are doing the increasing the visibility of education program in media. For example, we had recently at a wiki camp and one of the media partners or let's say she works in radio on in a radio show. She was present all the way of the camp. So she did a lot of interviews with the participants with the speakers. So it's kind of a, I think we are working on this locally as Philip mentioned, but I do believe that hub could increase the visibility of work of all of the affiliates in education. Yeah, I completely agree. I didn't want to bias the discussion with that, but I completely agree that the hub can actually amplify those voices. And even though we all of us don't really know what the hub is or what it should look like, we have a feeling of what are the things that it should be doing. And I think education also mentoring or so many other things that were mentioned like facilitation with journals. That's something that the hub could absolutely do. I'd like to talk about something related to challenges and support that we need as a leader of education program for seven years and four years for another initiative. We had a great education program in Egypt from 2012 till 2019. And after that we stopped it because the lack of funds that we got from the foundation, we stopped the talk, take funds after 2017. So two years ago I contacted, or I reached out to Nicole Saad from the education program and Jakrabah from the partnerships to make like a deal or partnerships with my university, university, because as a university professor, I'd like to relaunch again education program in my university. But when I talked to them to make like, because the university need like official partnerships, not friendly, not just communication. So you need like certificates for students who participate in translating articles from any language, especially from Spanish to Arabic. Because you know that when we participate in, when we did our education program, we did a lot of contributions to be a good and featured article for the Arabic Wikipedia. Not only, we didn't only edit any article to be a normal article. So I need to relaunch it again, but I need your help from the foundation education team to relaunch it again, but officially. But also they told me about that there is something related to our law in Egypt and we have to review the things and everything stopped again. So I'm asking, how can we resolve it? Because I'll have my students after I return home. I will have a great number of students, so I can teach them how to edit Wikipedia and review their articles. So we need to relaunch this again, but I need the help of you. So I'm waiting. I can promise answers. This is something that we can talk one-on-one or in a more closed setting. But my thoughts at first are that the hub could be a help in terms of funds. So currently it is not known whether hubs will have the capacity to fundraise and or distribute money. So we don't have that answer, but potentially they could. But when it comes to official partnerships, that's something that's really important and I think everyone here can recognize that. We did it at first, and after him came Ty. Also I think it was 2016 and 2017, and after that everything stopped. And I worked two years from 2017 till 2019, lonely, leading 13 universities in Egypt. And was that the partnership between Wikimedia Foundation and Cairo University? They told me that any student requires an official certificate that he participated in this semester in the education program, and he edited some articles on Wikipedia. This is the issue that I need. Now I'm not talking about funds. Because I know that's something related to our restrictions with the government. Is there an organization in Egypt? But a user group can give a certificate? A user group will not be a good thing. I have a initiative called Wikibedian Light of Knowledge. I can give them a certificate, but because now we have a credit program, so they need official partnership, not something friendly or not a local certificate. Maybe we just say foundation will give certificate. Because Wikibedia Armenia gave a certificate to our students, it is enough for them. No, I think I feel her pain just because of having a certificate from Wikimedia Foundation. It is much more quite official than local, like branded something with the user group supports that this is the credit. I want to give some more space for other people. I acknowledge there is a problem, and we can't solve it right now. We don't have Wikibedia Foundation presence here. But what I think we could do is make the hub a place that can amplify these voices so that Wikibedia Foundation can act under pressure if that's what's needed. That's also one of the things that a hub can do. Okay, I have another point. Have you taken any practical measures toward the hub? Yes. And what are those steps? Well, we have been in discussion with the Board of Trustees and the MCDC, and this research that we've shown is also a huge leap towards that. So this is not something that will happen overnight. It's something that is an ongoing discussion for months now. Frank has started his own little research back last year, I think. So it's been more than a year, probably, that we've been actively thinking about this. But it's not something that can happen overnight. So we're making short strides, and then hopefully something will happen. Eva. How much has actually hub also thought about this? How specific is the focus? For instance, there are other ways of education. There are museum integration and collaboration with all sorts of clam institutions. Or there are other areas. Let's say I'm a self-organizing Wikisance competition again coming back in November. So whoever wants to join, this is the possibility. But what are your thoughts in this area of these partly related things like, let's say, museum education or collaboration, let's say, like Wikisance competition? Right. I was wondering when you were going to mention, we love science. So maybe you missed it because it was one of the first slides, but education needs a clear definition. That was one of the first and foremost outcomes of the research that Cornelius has concluded in the past few months. And because not everyone has the same definition of what education is. We do need a shared understanding, and we do need sort of limits, maybe not hard limits, but some sort of limits so that we know what comes under purview of this, because we know that Glam is also thinking about doing things like that, and we do not want to overstep. So I don't have an answer right now, but we're thinking about it. And I think it will probably depend on where you draw the line. But we'll see. We have two minutes left. I think that you're a teacher in Panama, where there is no user group, there is no chapter. But you have read in, I don't know, in Google Trends, that appears like a great experience of someone who has been working in education in Wikipedia and say, okay, I want to do this. But you don't know Nicosat, that was the point of Wala. You don't know how Wikipedia is organized. You don't know nothing. Which is your landing page? Which is your landing process to know what to do? I think that the HABS work might be defining this path. Not depending on if you know Florencia, you can work on something in University of, I don't know, University of Sevillea, contact Florencia to work on that. It's not that. How do you proceed if you don't know anything? Yes, exactly. I mean, we've had this conversation, maybe exact same conversation many times before. Outreach was supposed to be one of those places where you could get informed about education, but that never worked out the way we wanted to, or some people wanted to. But yes, one of the discussions that we've had, especially me with Frank, how to make the central place, whether the hub would be that place to be the central capacity exchange platform. And I mentioned capacity exchange because that's also something that's been developing in recent months. So keep an eye on that. But I think that, yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Thomas, can we just... Just maybe something very quick. We often focus on the small-scale, high-effort activities, particularly teaching students to edit Wikipedia, teaching students to translate. That can only be done on quite a small scale if it's done well. And there's not much support for the very large-scale, low-effort outreach and lobbying. For example, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, universities said, don't look at Wikipedia, don't use Wikipedia. Now, some universities say, oh, Wikipedia, it's sort of trustworthy, and that's it. There's no education broadly on how to safely use Wikipedia. Where are the gaps? What are the problems? How to understand it? And yet, that sort of information exists in our community. Being able to put together a package of information that you can send to every university in your country, every university library in your country, it's a very large-scale, relatively low-effort and potentially laser groundwork for the future intense small-scale activities. I agree. Thank you. I think this is all the time we have left. Okay, maybe I'll add a comment. Just the Thomas remarks. Just like in Estonia, actually our biggest promotion campaign for Wikipedia was organized by University of Tartu. So again, it's like something for us, super low-effort, because it's someone else did it. So this is again something that I see where HAAP could come into really effect, like how to make sure that you actually are not really targeting those few schools, students or university students doing something, but actually targeting universities themselves. I think that this should be the main focus of this thing. Thank you. Thank you everyone. We're at time. I hope this was a productive discussion. At least it was for me. I think we got a lot of good feedback and good potential ways that HAAP can help out everyone here and not here. So here's hoping that we succeed in the next several units of time. Thank you.