 That's cuz you're prepared. Yeah, all you can see is this part though, so You only need to be prepared that much. Hey, but that's TV. That's how it works. I know All right, we are streaming we are good By the way also recommend a hip-hop evolution on Netflix before I started watching that I was 30 minutes in does it get better? It's good It's good I have to watch the third episode again cuz I ended up I ended up crashing on the couch But that was the good one because they brought in run DMC and they brought in It was just like the the the pinnacle of hip-hop at that point. I was excited to see it As long as they get Kwame in there. No, I don't think Kwame's in there, but I did get introduced to pig meat Markham All right, we're ready for the show everybody ready Here we go Daily tech news show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News for Friday December 9th 2016 I'm Tom Merritt joining me Justin Robert young he and Darren kitchen flip-flopped this week has a you're down in Florida I am Justin again. I'm back in Florida and and I'm very very excited to be here on the show and And thank you to Darren kitchen for for flipping because my stupid friend who's getting stupid married on stupid Saturday decided to have their Stupid rehearsal during the day. Who doesn't daytime rehearsal and more important insights like that to come Yeah, absolutely. I thankfully to shed light on those types of things and more We also have Annalie new it's tech culture editor at ours technica on the show. Welcome back Annalie. Good to have you Yeah, thanks for having me back on it's great to have you along last time Annalie was here I wasn't around so this is this is fantastic because I've been wanting to be on the show with her as well And we're gonna revisit your column from Monday that Veronica and I talked about in a little bit So I'm looking forward to that too. Yeah me too Let's start off with some top stories Michigan governor Rick Snyder signed four bills into law Friday creating the first comprehensive regulations for autonomous driving in a US state actually Florida has the next best They have everything except the ability to offer a self-driving service. Now, Michigan has legalized that vehicle Manufacturers and we'll get to that in a minute are the only ones who will be allowed to operate on-demand networks of self-driving cars operators of such networks must take full liability for Accidents at least accidents in which the vehicle was in autonomous mode and it was at fault There is some debate over who qualifies as a vehicle manufacturer for instance Google Says the US National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration recognizes it as a manufacturer of record But in Michigan Department of Transportation spokesperson says the state sees Google as a manufacturer of automated vehicle Technology and to qualify for the new rules They would have to become a motor vehicle manufacturer by meeting the federal motor vehicle safety standards So right now nobody's offering the service, but it remains to be seen who will be able to well and Michigan as a state is in a very interesting position. They obviously have largely been dependent on the auto industry for you know 100 well, I don't know whatever a long long long time and They want to be friendly to a future in which people can still build cars in Michigan The question is how much they are going going to want to protect their kind of oligopoly in favor of getting this entire concept off the ground because The idea that Michigan could play a large role in the next great age of Automobiles is something that I think appeals greatly to them, but right now At least the companies that have put a lot of time and effort into building this technology are not American-made auto manufacturers. Yeah, it's interesting. I had the same thought about Michigan being the perfect place to have this sort of start out as a Concept legally, but it's true that if they want to protect Their local industry the auto industry, which you know is still a huge part of the economy, especially if you're in Detroit You know, they are it seems like they're trying to create what I think is a Weird distinction between the people who are basically making the software that will run these cars and The manufacturers of the cars themselves because you're never going to see a Google Manufacturing cars, I mean, maybe they will eventually I never say never But I think it's it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Are we going to have Does that mean that someone who designs an algorithm that gets used in a car is not liable in any way It's just the people who actually build the physical car So that's a that's going to be a good question to tackle as we go forward Yeah, I think an even better example is uber right uber wants to provide its service with self-driving cars Would it be allowed to do so would it be considered a manufacturer or would it need? Would it be forced to partner with a Ford or a GM in order to do that? Something it might want to do anyway But would it would the law require it and and the other part is this is just Michigan What happens when Florida comes up with its own approval for a self-driving car service and says well We have different qualifications. So there are also organizations saying we need to have a federal standard that that says This is the way it is across the US rather than having a patchwork of different Qualifications from state-to-state Sorry, sorry, and Lee, you know, I think that's also a big question for like alright So who how does everything stand now in terms of the players that want to do self-driving cars? That would mean uber Google not so much But Tesla which does manufacture their own cars and does want to create a net of self-driving cars Or at least the ability that you can just turn your car into a self-driving car That is closer to their definition, but they don't produce their cars in Michigan So I wonder where they fall on Tesla I think if we're looking at the ramifications of these restrictions Well, I think Tesla is a shoo-in because they as you said they actually are manufacturing their own cars So but they're kind of an outlier in this area. I mean mostly it's Technology companies that are producing software that will then be implemented in someone else's hardware Just like we see with mobile devices and things like that. So I think Tom's right that you might see partnerships Um where you know, it's uber Ford or uber Tesla. Maybe um, although probably not But that would be interesting the other thing about state-by-state regulation Which is definitely what we will get first is you're going to see state Clamoring to be the place where companies that are doing this kind of software want to go to work So you could easily see a state passing a more Lax version of those laws saying like sure anyone google can be testing their cars here Google can be rolling out a beta version of their service No problem. And you know that way they'll get Maybe a google uh, you know local outlet of google there or local campus for google So I could I could easily see that happening You know it within the next five years. Yeah, that's a good point Nintendo's super mario run for ios comes out december 15th And you will need an active internet connection to play it Nintendo's a shinguru miramoto told mashable that the requirement is meant to prevent Piracy well, uh tom at least he didn't come up with a dumb excuse for why Maybe having no ways on internet connection. They came right out and said it was because we want to make sure people aren't stealing it What do you think this will do for the popularity of what is it very interesting time for nintendo and mobile gaming? It's going to cause a lot of grumbling among people like us who are who look at this and say hey Wait a minute. So this means I can't play it when i'm on a plane unless I pay for internet connectivity Uh, I can't play it in the subway if my connection goes out Most people aren't going to notice or care. Honestly. It's mario. It's going to sell great Yeah, I I I think so too Although, you know, we we are starting to see I I hope that this is just nintendo's First foray and they they want to be extra careful because they've obviously had a lot of consternation about Moving their big ip to mobile I hope it's something that they drop going forward and this is just part of that delicate dance to get them Into developing mobile games because it seems You know when when netflix is letting you download stuff when they have been Against that then the idea of an independent service with with or without internet connection seems to be where The tide is moving and mass Yeah, especially with a casual game where you know, yeah, you're going to be moving in and out of service areas all the time You know, it's just gonna this anti piracy measure is going to end up just being like an anti player measure You know, it's people just won't have fun playing it. So yeah, I agree. I hope that they chuck this idea in the garbage I think the I think the The bigger risks to them is not so much that you have to be online to play it But that you will be online and the detection software that's trying to prove your online will screw up And tell you you're not online and that's what's really going to frustrate people I mean, there's a lot of online play in here that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of offline Anyway, and Miyamoto talked about that in this mashable interview said well We thought about making part of it offline, but then it didn't really tie in well People play games like hearthstone that have to be online all the time and are fine with it I I think the bigger issue though is that because you don't really need to be online to play every aspect of this game It's more likely to be one of those situations where the drm is worse than the cure, right? Like the idea that we're trying to make sure you're online And and it's it'll screw up a few times and people are going to get very angry about that Because they're going to be up they're not going to understand why they are online and it's not working It's always going to be one more thing that can go wrong Which in technology is always the rest of the disaster always one two don't think too many Speaking of things that went wrong Samsung pushes an update to remaining us galaxy note 7s on december 19th to prevent charging at all And eliminate the ability to work as a mobile device samsung estimates There's still a hundred thirty three thousand note 7s unaccounted for in the united states Note 7 owners can still return their phones or exchange them for other samsung devices But interestingly verizon announced it will not push this update to its customers They said look we don't want to cut people off if they need emergency services or they're traveling over the holidays Although if you're traveling in a plane, you're not carrying a note 7, please But they're not going to push it. They're going to say we're going to hold off on this And in europe an update on december 15th will just reduce note 7s charge ability to 30% It won't cut it off. However in canada note 7s will have all wireless network functions disabled So you can charge it, but you won't be able to use it So they're taking different approaches in different markets to try to encourage people to hand these things back in Where does this rank? historically on Like the biggest technology failures of all time Well, I think it's top five Right, sure Because it failed twice if it had just been that first battery recall It wasn't a big deal, but having having to just pull the entire product, right? And and and now that these these are the stories when these are the aftermath stories The like will a carrier push an app to kill and brick a phone deliberately Like that means something horrifying has gone wrong on a scale for which even in this over-reacting pearl clutching Technology press industry like we have to understand that this is indeed beyond the pale Well, I mean things are catching on fire. I mean it doesn't get much more literal than that Is like yeah, I mean it's so it is it is very extreme. Um, we've rarely had You know, we've had a few battery fire Uh situations in the past but usually not quite this bad and usually not with stuff that people are carrying around with them all the time Yeah, the worst one that I could think of is the sony vios Uh, but those weren't as widespread and and while they were banned from planes and there were people who carried them on planes It wasn't as ubiquitous as a as a smartphone. Yeah. Yeah Oh, this one's hard the information reports magic leaves augmented reality technology is indeed years away from completion Information also alleges that much of the project demo released last year was misleading One of the videos was supposedly created by the Weta workshop visual effects studio Magic leap promises to build its AR into everyday glasses But is having trouble making its fiber scanning displays work Magic leap if you have been following this company has raised 1.4 billion dollars in funding at a 4.5 billion dollar valuation Alibaba google and andreason horowitz are among the investors on twitter Magic leap ceo ronnie abavitz said uh Said everyone will get to test everything when it ships claim the company is making mini production tests of its first system and told everyone to stay tuned and believe This is a long time coming I mean when that video that they they did that teaser video last year was obviously not real Like they're I mean it looked great and it definitely looked like it was made at Weta But uh, it was clearly fake and they kept sort of making these Um, wishy washy comments like well, it's an enhanced version or this is a you know This is what it will look like from the point of view of the player when it's done um, and then you know every time they would have some kind of Press event they would invite a bunch of press and they'd say oh, sorry. We forgot. We can't we can't do that press event Um, you know that that'll be happening later just believe Um, and we finally got some pictures I don't know if you guys saw these that are supposedly of the rig that you need And it looks like one of those things that you put your head into at the optometrist where you like Stick your face on and they blow air into your eyes and stuff. It was like that's that seems big Seems awkward I have been very skeptical of magic leap for the years that it has been in the rumor mill But the one thing I was willing to give it is well, you've you've you've convinced google You've convinced alibaba there must be something there and so when that video came out. I said well, it does look doctored But then so did the hollow lens first one and the hollow lens ended up being real So maybe this will pay off today's tweet storm from ronnie abe vitz kind of Is a bit of the nail in the coffin for me I mean basically what he said is all you skeptics will get to try it when it ships Which is the definition of something shipping and when something ships Everyone gets to try it like you're not telling me much there and when you finished on believe I'm not believing anymore at this point and i'm willing to change my mind once you actually ship it and I can try it I will change my mind Yeah, and the technology sounded so cool Like that was the thing that kept me kind of coming back and reading stories about it and following it was because If it really is true that they can do this with their beaming stuff into your eye and that you get this really immersive sense of Um, basically augmented reality. There it is. There's the amazing machine. So the idea is that it's it's not vr It's ar and but it's so Good, you know that it that it feels, you know, like you're interacting with blobs or whatever little creatures that you're shooting in the office um But it yeah, I mean, I just think they bit off way more than they let's let's let's let's be plain The the issue with magic leap Is that we are covering them? Because we assume By way of the social proof of them Raising the funds and showing us whatever little tests that they've done that they have a fundamental technological breakthrough in ar the likes of which we have never seen it's not Hollow lens is the same solution that you have seen previously It's it's combining a picture with another screen and you're looking at this other Like composite of it. This was supposed to be fundamentally different I have a soft spot in my heart for that idea. They are literally based about Two miles, uh from where I am right now in in south florida So, uh, I I certainly kind of root for them on that level But if this is the case that the the the that video was totally constructed by wetta And this is and those were not Assets that on some kind of framework was being run through their operating system This is fraud and this is this is this is among one of the more, uh, a bald-faced Examples of it. The other thing that you have to realize with them is you can't just keep Doing these Fawning, uh, uh, totally managed like the secret in in in florida is magically Kind of stories without people eventually coming for you if you do not produce something That is a problem and you can only push that back so far so far so far Before everyone sort of wonders whether or not the emperor just doesn't have any clothes. Yeah, we need more leap and less magic here, uh Because honestly, I I I think what what I suspect is going on is the fiber scanning display works When it's in that refrigerator sized unit and they show that to investors and investors are blown away and say, wow That is the best looking a r possible and when that video comes out the people who have tried that Refrigerator sized display go. Yeah, that looks pretty close to to what I saw I could believe it could do that and what it sounds like from this information story is They just aren't able to get it wearable And that was the key is they need to make that leap To making it wearable and they're not able to do that and that's why it's still dragging So I believe that the technology is there and impressive But it's just not practical at this point and they they they don't seem to be able to figure out how to make it practical Well, and also listen if it's going to be years it was years away years ago We're at now now and if it's constantly going to be years away, then It's vaporware you you've now moved from this is a thing that we'll be debuting soon And we should be excited about it To vaporware and prove it to me when you put something out there or put something in somebody's hands And they've got it And they've got to use all that investor money, right like they can't just close up shops So, you know, they're gonna it's going to be in the future until either they're there's no more money or they actually Put out some glasses that work so How about things that do work facebook is now letting users create frames Graphic overlays for photos and videos representing places and events among other things Probably reminds you of snapchat geofilters because it's pretty much like snapchat geofilters You can find the instructions if you want to create a facebook frame at facebook.com slash fb camera effects So why isn't this an instagram thing? Instagram already copied snapchat. So why don't they divvy up the copying? Yeah Yeah, exactly. We wouldn't want to do it all in one place I mean, um, yeah, I don't know Let me let me so I actually so i'm down here for a wedding as I mentioned earlier Uh, I decided just as a nice thing to make a snapchat geofilter for their wedding tomorrow So very very simple. I was actually kind of very impressed with with how snapchat has made it super super easy to do It's very affordable. It's going to be for 10 hours tomorrow and in this, uh, the whole Area where they're going to have the wedding. It was super fun and easy to do and hopefully people enjoy it It actually works I think this is a good idea however You got to wonder why they're pushing it for facebook camera when that Doesn't seem like the the biggest place That they could just even if you're going to bald face rip off this snapchat feature Like put it in a place where people would actually Use it or want to use it. Yeah, I mean Well, don't forget instagram and facebook are different teams. They're even different companies under the same company So it may be that instagram is looking this going. Yeah, we have something like that too. Damn it It could also be that facebook says, hey, you know where people really check in Often is facebook. They don't do that kind of geographic Local based stuff on instagram as much and that's why they the facebook team got to this first. I don't know I mean, this is part of just their general push for making facebook more fun on mobile I mean, everyone's accessing it on mobile. Anyway, this is, you know, facebook live Is their, you know, big push which is still I think the jury is out on whether that push is going to result in anything Real or lasting But that's what this feels like to me is just like more fun stuff You can do with your friends like on mobile facebook and like, you know Maybe they just don't feel like instagram needs that because instagram is entirely mobile You would never do that anywhere but on your phone. Yeah Yeah Indeed researchers at the university of toronto fed a neural network hundreds of hours Of a tongue could you actually move off the thing because your thing is blocking But there we go hundreds of hours of music until it could create Listenable compositions with melody instruments and drums Then the neural karaoke program was trained on a collection of pictures and captions to learn How words link to visual patterns and objects to create lyrics about the pictures the network was then shown a picture of a christmas tree It wrote a song about it Which it then performed side note the same program can also make a stick figure dance to music I think we're gonna throw to this brand new christmas classic right now The best christmas present in the world is a blessing Uh, I always direct decorate my christmas tree with flowers. I don't know why people are taking issue with that I I'm glad that robots are expressing their feelings about how to decorate christmas trees I mean, you know, this is where this is where brotherhood between humans and robots begins Yeah, it starts at a time of good feelings and good cheer I don't I don't want to diss this song Uh, I do think that the the one put out by the sony bot in september Which was a was fed beetles tunes is a little catchier But maybe that's just because you know, this is a traditional time and so you can't you can't be too poppy Well, let's also face it most christmas songs are not necessarily great songs They are great songs that you like to hear in a month long period Yeah, this is fun This is just a fun silly thing if it can get anywhere near an approximation And we can all laugh about it and and relate on some level then I think it's done its job And here's the big headline Now the war on christmas has recruited skynet so good get at us Lots and lots and lots and lots of flowers. I mean, I love that sentiment. I'm I'm pro pro robot christmas. I'm pro robot christmas with lots of lots of flowers. Who wouldn't be you'd have to be dead inside Or an algorithm Hey, thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit.com Real quick before we get in our main discussion. Don't forget len peralta is here illustrating the show He's illustrating our main discussion topic today Which is you know, the fact that there is If arguably no difference between your online and offline life You thought not having darin here len would mean that you could get away from Consumtual topics that you had to illustrate, huh? No, no, I love the uh, I love the challenge And just so bring it on. They're good to be here. By the way, we will we will check in with len again at the end of the show Let's start off. Uh, just to remind people or people who didn't hear the monday show We talked about annie's op-ed piece on ours technica about The fact that hey if you're talking about your offline life versus your online life You're you're talking about a distinction that doesn't necessarily exist anymore And you give lots of good examples in your column about that internet of things The fact that we we live online. We pay our bills online We communicate online and and and so Is there really any difference between being online and being offline anymore? And we got some great emails. I picked a couple to talk about here today l mic Phd wrote in and said he enjoyed that conversation regarding real and digital life But a quick comment on the conversation regarding people's in real life actions and those online I think you need to consider the goal or intention of people's actions We do not proclaim our political beliefs or other opinions in public spaces Because that's not our goal of being in a public space We're shopping or socializing with friends or other day-to-day actions and not likely to make public Proclamations as often as we do online when we engage on social media or the internet in general We have different intentions the internet in many ways has become the public forum of times gone by It is the space for exchanging public opinions where equivalent action public declaration would cause more than just a few odd stares in the middle of a mall or a restaurant So an ally he's he's basically saying well, you wouldn't get up in the middle of chilies and start shouting about your presidential candidate But but that's okay online because we expect that I mean, I think that that's a really narrow definition of what online means And I think part I mean part of what I was getting at in this piece is that What we think of as the online world, which is totally connected to the offline world or real life world It's it's an incredibly diverse place And so there's plenty of places you might go online where it would be just as ridiculous for you to suddenly stand up and start Start talking about party politics or start talking about Abortion, you know, you wouldn't go to a harry potter fan forum and talk about that because people would kind of get pissed off Unless it was like an impregn story or something and it was somehow relevant to abortion, but I let's not go there, but But there's such a thing as off topic, right when you're in yeah, I've been in conversations like hold on We're getting off and I mean in fact the idea of off topic is something that I think all of us have treasured to use in moderating conversations online to tell people like look, this isn't really the place to talk about that and so I think That just like in You know our real life meet space world, um, you know, there's certain places where of course, you know You're not going to have a political conversation But the fact is I've had tons of political conversations walking through malls and while shopping And I think that you know, these kinds of conversations are constantly going on in both places and so I think you know has the internet taken over Some kind of public space that used to exist in the real world. I mean to a certain extent Yeah, but to a certain extent we have those public spaces in both. I mean we have town hall meetings We have you know city council meetings that people go to all the time and talk in person. So I think um, you know again, I feel like this just underscores the fact that You know, really there is this huge connection between how we behave online and in real life and that There's just such a variety of things That we can talk about in so many different kinds of spaces on the internet that you can't just say like Well, this is what why all of us go online. It's like, you know, everybody good, you know Most people go online for different reasons. So Absolutely the one thing that I do think does is part of online culture and specifically I think what we're drilling down to is primarily text-based culture be it twitter facebook blogs is There is a little bit more of an initial tolerance for tribe signaling Like just sending up flares that other people that Either are going to react to you because they are not of your tribe or you want to find other people of like minds Either through searching out your own entertainment or through making comments yourself to ingratiate yourself with people That you have never met before and you are now You know communicating with via text, which we all know is where all inflection and sarcasm Go to die. Yeah, exactly And and so I think that does have to be a little louder and in in I think it has a tendency to get a little louder Then it might be in a meat space where you just have other ways to Signal to people based on how you look how you dress where you live Whether you're rich or you're poor you're fat or you're skinny. There's a million different You know what your gender is there's a million different ways that you we signal each other Without talking and that is absent by you know primarily on text-based mediums online So I do think that there is a little bit more of a culture of that but what I think your point largely was that We need to figure out that the consequences Transfer almost without friction more so than they ever have In the past and and that is part of a maturation Uh and and a saturation of how much we all rely on some kind of of text-based Online communication Yeah, and I mean I think your point about how people behave when they meet in person is really astute about the fact that we have Many nonverbal signals that we can send that we can't send if we're just in text online Which I would say that this text-only world also is going away and we may finally Kind of get away from a text-only social space, but that's that's a whole other conversation but I think that um the other thing is that uh Uh because in the real world you do get all this nonverbal signaling The consequences of what you're saying are immediately obvious So if you say something to someone and they're offended you see it in their body language you can see it in them cringing and Many studies have shown that it's much harder for people to criticize each other to each other's faces because of that It's hard to tell someone, you know, I disagree with your ideas The cake that you made sucks like you just can't do that to someone's face because you see them respond And you can't help as a human being but sympathize with that response. It's just part of our biology and so when you do kind of drain away that um immediate nonverbal response it is easier to um say things that you would never Say and not and you because you wouldn't you wouldn't say in person So you don't understand the immediate consequences of what you've said However online You know those consequences still erupt into the real world all the time The story that was in the washington post today about the woman that um trump tweeted about a year ago She's a college student who asked him a question at a town hall meeting And he didn't like the question and so later he tweeted about how she was a terrible arrogant person She has been getting um, she's been trolled now for an entire year both in person and online Just from one tweet and that's a huge amount of consequences for just one little off the cuff Tweet and of course trump is the easy example because he's got so many followers But this happens to lots of people on a smaller scale all the time I I think the way I I I Tempted to frame it now and then this is based on on your very salient point that you know online and offline There's not a separation of consequences. It's not like the news group days We're no nobody knew you were a dog on the internet, right? I think it's it's that we've always had non-verbal, you know communication non-present communication But it took longer We had to write a letter. We had to sit down. We had to think a little longer about it We had to hold a pen in our hand or at least a typewriter and then you were sending it to somebody Maybe it was a letter to the editor. Otherwise, you wouldn't really know who to send it to But we've accelerated the ability to do that non-present communication tremendously and We've created the ability to access Millions of people at once and I think that we're dealing with the fallout of that where if we could have all written Letters at that rate and to that many people we would have seen this problem before it's What you guys have been talking about that inability to be present Makes you communicate in a way that you wouldn't have before But we also have lost the anonymity of a letter writer or a Or an early internet user and it's easier to find people It's incredibly easy to find people and I think what one thing I do want to retain in this conversation though is the fact that One of the valuable things about communicating online is that there still are ways to communicate anonymously online And that's incredibly important and we don't want to get rid of that And that doesn't mean getting rid of the consequences of what we say But we do need to keep protecting that little piece of the internet that allows us to communicate anonymously And maybe learn when to choose to communicate anonymously and when not to I think a lot of people forget when they're on facebook or twitter How many other people can see what they write? Yeah, that's so true I think and that's that's something that is rapidly evolving and and part of what I think Uh, I really liked about your piece annually was that this is I don't think that this is necessarily a a sign of the coming apocalypse like I think it is I think that it is now and that's where I think oftentimes when we get into these conversations It can just get into this weird Technophobic like and this is why we've unleashed our true demons on the world uh where This is a very awkward phase that we are going through because even in the idea of online communication pre Totally ubiquitous all strata of of of age and occupation in class being on social media You were able to silo silo yourself a little bit. You would read the blogs that you read And and that would be that now Everything collides at such a fast A degree that now not only do you know your four favorite writers in your own little social political strata But you know your five least favorite writers from exactly the opposite Demographic because their stuff gets retweeted into your circle and into your feed just as much as anything else and we are I think feeling the consequences of that in the real world that that we are we are just getting a lot of this culture clash at a faster degree than we ever have before and I think ultimately the poison is the antidote The more we see of each other The tendency will be that the more we understand our differences, but right now we are just in Uh a really dizzying time. I think where we were not only realizing how far we were apart but How uncomfortable it is for us to kind of Be together in in this kind of situation especially with it's hard to look at in any other lens than the presidential election because that was obviously something that was You know very painful for for every every strata of it at various different times, you know, and and and we all have to Live with with everybody else's and their opinions, you know, and it's it's hard Yeah, I think the thing that concerns me most um, and I agree that I don't think we're going to have a social media apocalypse But I do worry there's two things I worry about one is that people do continue to have this myth of um Online being completely separate from real life, and I got a lot of people responding to my article saying well My online identity is totally separate from my real life identity. It's a different name You know, I never do anything the same in real life as I do online and therefore You know everything that happens online has no consequences in the real world And it's like my feeling is like hats off to you if you have a completely anonymous online identity That's totally separate from your real life. That's great. That's fine. I'm happy for you to do that But that doesn't mean that that's how everyone experiences the internet for a lot of people It really is their social sphere. It's where they go to work I've spent like the last 10 years basically working online with people meeting them in slack more recently But before that, you know irc and various other things So that I couldn't just go offline. It wasn't like it was a fantasy world where little elves lived It was like the real world where my colleagues lived and it's how I made money and it was a very you know, it wasn't like Plan I could be like, okay I'm just going to go offline for the week and like be in the real world because that's you know It was the real world and it is the real world um, but the other thing that worries me is that like what if In this awkward adolescence that you're describing where we're kind of going through a phase where we're figuring out how to act on the internet what if instead of taking the Semi-politeness that we use with each other in the real world and finally transplanting it to the online world What if we go the other way and what if people? Start saying all right. I really like the way trolling works online. Why don't we start doing this in real life? Like as much as possible So I worry sometimes that the lack of civility and the lack of care for consequences will kind of erupt into the real world in a much more um extreme way than it has already Um, so I don't know. That's my dystopian music. Yeah. Yeah I might what I would like to believe about that is our natural tendencies To want to be polite and avoid confrontation with people in person will eventually override that Uh, but yeah, it may cause a lot of people to try that out and we don't and we've never had an experiment like this Where where this many people could spread this kind these kinds of ideas this fast Uh, so it's something something to think about and also just just as a side note It makes me in light of the conversation We had earlier this week about the community that's putting together vanilla wow servers So they can play the original version of world of crorecraft. I want vanilla internet servers so I I want to could go back to like gopher and archie days Experience the vanilla internet But uh real quickly before we wrap this up. I want to get to mike in warm and sunny melbourne I think has a really good point. He says I've been saying for years that this is a false dichotomy online versus real world Says maybe it's more obvious to me because I have depression and I don't cope all that well with in-person interaction So I avoid it if I can but 95 of my communication with the world is through the internet in some form Am I not really communicating is all of the communication imaginary? If not, then what is it? It's real It's real life And he says, you know when the phone first came around maybe people didn't see that as real life It's a similar concept. Even if it's not as public Yeah, I think that it absolutely is real life and and I understand that we are kind of preaching to the choir doing a tech podcast And and annally having you know written on all the platforms that that you have that just Obviously allows for just a at least a baseline of technological believability buy-in, right? Uh But it is important to understand that it's it's this is new to a lot of people Like the the idea of what I post online can affect my real world might be an old lesson for us But it is not for many many many many people and there will be many many many many to come That will have to understand that it just so happens that right now We are in a very highly charged a period of time for how much we want to Jump on on You know the things that we find wrong with the world because you know for many We we believe that this is a very precarious moment In history and and now is the time to do it and that's not even really a political thing Because I think that both sides believe that this is a precarious moment And they need to jump up and and yell and scream and point out the hidden truth. So We'll see where it goes. Uh, but to your point annally, you know, I I I hope that my my belief that the closer we get together the more we understand each other Even if that conversation begins in a vile ugly place, uh holds true because yeah This is a really pivotal time politically and culturally for us And I think you know people spent two or three generations getting used to the idea that the tv was not real And that that was fake stuff happening on the tv that lived in your living room And now we're having to learn the opposite Thing which is this thing that looks like a tv that you're kind of watching like a tv sometimes when you're streaming shows No, that actually is real and there's real people out there who can be affected by what you do And I think that's hard because like I said, we spent all this time learning that everything on the screen is fake So um, so I think yeah, we need to retrain ourselves. That's a really good point We used to let we laugh at the people who used to duck when the the train came on to the movie screen, right? Yeah, and now maybe we should duck when the train comes on In a sense. Yeah, I think so. All right, uh, let's get to one email before we get out of here yesterday We talked about the research allowing, uh, sepsis to be cured by attaching iron to antibodies that bind with the bacteria And then you'd use a magnet to just pull the the bacteria out of your blood And and cure you of blood poisoning and of course I immediately said I'm sure there's a very good reason why hemoglobin would not also get pulled out by that magnet And I made some guesses as to why but I asked anybody who actually knew to write in And luckily the senior lecturer of chemistry and director of undergraduate studies in chemistry at emory university Took the time to write in thank you very much. Douglas r. Mulford phd Doug said I listened to thursday's show You're talking about using iron to remove sepsis, which is really cool I am not the biomedical expert you were asking for but i'm a college chemistry teacher So hopefully I can help the short answer is that metallic iron like in nails can be attracted to a magnet But that iron ions dissolve in solution like in your hemoglobin and are not attracted to the magnet So the hemoglobin would not be attracted to the magnet in the dialysis machine Then he adds if you want to do a really cool iron experiment Take a flake of iron fortified cereal like total Floated on some water and then bring a strong neodymium magnet close and the cereal will follow the magnet Why the cereal companies put metallic iron in the cereal? But that's okay because your stomach acid is strong enough to convert that metallic iron to the iron ions that you need in your body Now that is news you can use Yeah, go float some flakes folks iron flakes for breakfast Just cut out the middleman just go right for the iron flakes He was also excited that we had a little bit of science in with the facebook and phones So, uh, thank you again, uh, dr. Mulford, uh for for writing in Uh, and thank you annally newitz for joining us. This was fantastic It was a really good conversation if folks want to find more of what you're doing online Where should they go? Um, you can always find my stuff at arstechnica.com and my personal site is shockingly enough annally newitz dot com And there's two n's but one l right that's right Trying to teach myself a l ee and you can find me on twitter. I'm annally in a n in a l ee in at twitter I mean, you know what I mean. Yeah at annaleen annaleen at annaleen on twitter Just robby young what you got going on? Oh, man. Well the holidays are here and uh, I want to thank everybody that purchased everything from the contender uh Are my political card game the game of presidential debate a natural language card game without any improv You guys can get it for the special holiday price at the contender dot us for 1776 and We also drop the price on our on our amazon listing as well if you want to get it Via prime and I am here to say that after a harrowing A supply chain a kerfuffle that I don't want to get into we now are flush with all products We have all of our mailing supplies So you will be getting stuff within two to three days if you order at the contender dot us from now Until santa makes his jolly track All right Let us finish up with len peralta's attempt to illustrate the blending of online and offline lives blend. What do you got? Well, you know you said uh, uh, we'd have a conceptual sort of a story today Um, and uh, and and this is my take on it. Hopefully people who are watching the video can see this You've not watching the video. Uh, please go check it out. Um You know, I was thinking more about like online life and real life and things like that and uh, so Uh, I sort of did a dichotomy here. You know, you got the the robot online person in the real world and the uh and the phone ringing and the uh, and the real person, uh in the um In the offline version calling you in the mirror exactly So, uh, anyhow, uh, hopefully this is cool. I was trying to do something more editorial here. Uh, and um, hopefully people like it I like it Well, go check it out at len peralta store.com even if you just want to take a look at it But you've got I this this looks like you len is this you is this you were I don't know. I don't know. I actually added the glasses efforts. Are you wearing glasses today? Yeah, so that's supposed to be you There's a person in the mirror But the person looking into the mirror has a screen for a face and a cord plugged into their back and And I like that it's basically saying hey, is that me or is there a difference? Yeah, I love that the the person who we're supposed to see in the real world is a robot because I'm really robot identified anyway So I feel like this speaks to me a lot and then I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like Who's that guy like I'm the cool entity with a screen for a face Screw that guy with the glasses It kind of looks like A little bit. Yeah a little bit like I asked. Yeah Yeah, so anyway, you can get this right now if you can actually download the digital version Right now for my store len peralta store.com and mentioning things about the holidays like jerry did All kinds of great things on my online store. It's a good good time to get on if you if you want to get a Custom drawn holiday card for me. Those are right on the front page. I still have time to do that And uh, all kinds of other really cool stuff. So I'll check it out over at len peralta store.com Thank you to every single person who supports us on patreon Especially if you're keeping your patronage going during the holiday season, uh, you guys are the best patreon.com Slash d t n s uh, and don't forget they have Some of the most comfortable hoodie i've ever worn is available through the frog pants stores We have a daily tech news show version at daily tech news show.com slash store But look at any of the stores of the frog pants shows they they're they're crazy comfortable Uh and we'd make a fine gift this holiday season as well Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com. We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m Eastern alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and our website is daily tech news show dot com Back on monday with veronica belmont talk to you then Your program is so good. It's like you're there And Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program Boom Great show. Hey, that was fun you guys. Oh, thanks adily. That was fun Yeah, i'm still sad about magic leap. I don't know why No, you have no idea I have like this is like personally invested because it's it's literally like three blocks from where i know And I have two friends who work there and and i'm always trying to pump them for information and they always just kind of Cry a little bit Now I understand that's very sad it is a little sad I didn't want to like bring it up on the show Here's the problem with magically and and we'll see exactly how much in trouble they are in terms of of getting their tech Working right like if that's eventually going to come out because people are going to start talking especially if there's blood in the water, but uh the the their Their problem was that they they also just wanted The the glory too like they wanted those big fawning. This is the next new thing, you know kind of Articles and it's like you craft those you bring people in and you allow them access and you show them a demo Because you want them to write what they wrote and you can only go to that well so often without Chipping something having something Like a whole bunch of people look at it. I mean they've had just a few I feel like there was only one basically one person who went and wrote a giant thing for like was it the times or There were two one was for the times and then there was another one I think for Was it like it was like another magazine. There's like a fortune or mass company or something like that Yeah, and it was it was like he said it was just people being like oh my god It's the future and it's like yeah, but you still had to stick your head in like a giant bucket of wires I mean it wasn't You know that future and you always you always got the sense in those articles that there was other stuff that they were either Being told or saw that they couldn't report on and that that was the condition Is that we'll show you this and we'll show you all these things and we'll run you through the demo That got us billions of dollars or over a billion dollars in funding Uh, but you can't report on this and you can't report on these other like oh, but here's where it really takes off You can't say that except to say that you saw stuff that you can't talk about and it's like that ultimately I think Really hamstrung magically now we're gonna find out whether or not I hope we find out in the next year. I don't know how much more how much longer does their funding last for like a couple years Or something or what? Yes Show titles I think I'm gonna go with I can't drive level five. Yeah, but if you want to share some others Well, uh, following that is the flames in Spain stay mainly on the galaxy note seven on the plane Gladhouse's Christmas album Magic leap of faith I'm dreaming of a bite Christmas vanilla internet open the presence how Vanilla Skynet michigan drives driverless legislation Mario's just want to have fun Samsung is shifting bricks I there's doing something with bricks and it's not shifting Is this online is this online life? Is this online life like it's this real life? Whoa A magic leap are we there yet? Our lives is more broad banded together That was really nice Yeah Yeah, I can't I don't know what to pick Part of it is my I've only had like 16 hours of sleep Not at once 16 hours sounds like a lot until you're like, yeah, that seems good. I wish I'd had that And if you break it over five nights, it's like, oh, maybe not so much Then it doesn't sound like it's much Uh, yeah, I guess we'll go with I can't drive level five because there's so many good ones And it's the one leading in the votes. That's a good one TV. So Uh, I gotta log off. What time is it on sunday? What time is the uh show? Oh The show that uh We're totally not recording ahead of time for the holidays. Yeah, we're not doing it, right? It's 9 a.m pacific so noon eastern Okay That's predictions results, right? Yes. Okay. Yeah, there's there's another one in two days, which will be for which again Yeah, we're totally not doing that though. Yeah. Yeah That's on monday That's it's not happening on tuesday the actual predictions is on tuesday All right, tuesday after tuesday afternoon and sunday Those are the two days. You must be around. Yeah, okay. I'm gonna let you guys make these important decisions. Thank you All right, I will find out you guys Okay, uh, then I will do my best. I will I'll be here for uh, I'll be here for sunday Get my best I can I'll do my best. Cool. All right guys. I'm out. All right, Justin happy christmas See you later Bye Goodbye Will all the lens leave now or no A lens has left the room but not the lens see and if I eject It bans the person I think just for the session, but I I don't want to get rid of them. You know, it just uh, It's gonna close out when you close. Yeah. Yeah, I hid them from the broadcast so I don't think anybody could see him anyway Boy the lever the levelators having a problem with the uh christmas song I think because it got hung at 38% for quite a while now it's The heck is that I don't know what to do with that Oh, we have ben johnson next week. I forgot Ben Johnson Yeah, I totally yeah I booked him I booked him Roger it's very good to have you back People missed you including myself Oh, man, that's I was I was doing last minute boxing I woke up When do we go I woke up? Monday at five to get to Home Depot at six when they opened to get a bunch of more boxes And then I was still boxing stuff while they were moving I was doing that too when we moved down here I was putting I was like finding things that they weren't going to take and trying to find room for them in my car and Well, I was just like throwing crap in boxes at that point. It's like oh this has to go this has to go I was still coming up once a month We had our place for another three weeks after we moved. I think it was the way it worked out it was empty and so I I uh, I was coming up for taping sword and laser at the time So I came up and I was able to get a few more. I was able to leave a few things, but Still I got a bunch of I bought so many boxes. I think about like 36 40 and on top of what the 25 tubs I bought. Yeah Oh Spent so much money. It's not even a lot of money. It's just like my hands are dry Oh, yeah, I had that happen when I was when I moved to because you handle boxes for so long And it just sucks to moisture and then the tape doesn't help There's your they they say you should wear rubber gloves and I was like that's ridiculous and now I'm like next time I do this I might wear a rubber. I'm not doing this again If I move if I move I'm gonna donate my comics to a library or something like for posterity's sake and then My year books. I'll keep I have a bunch of art books. I don't know what I'm gonna do with those Oh, I just have so much stuff That's the problem with getting old you you accumulate stuff whether you think you have or not Just end up with all the things I have all I still have all my badges from all the ces. Comdexes That's the kind of stuff where I'm like it's cool to have sometimes But then really why because I do the same thing. I'm not criticizing you I'm like I have a big tub full of them too But then do I really? You know what it is if I have a picture of it like when when cell phone cameras Became uh, we're just standard and you could upload it directly to google or whatever app you use That's no longer an issue because now I can just keep it online Because really that's what that's what it needs to be is that period of time that I won't get back But I can't really reminisce about because I don't have convenient photos or anything Yeah, but if you forget about it, you don't know you forgot about it True Tom I go with you like there's that rush of going back and Looking at something that you haven't looked at a long time and bring it back all the memories. I get it totally get it What they need is to call those Um online storage like memory Overflow stacks you should hold everything in your house in your hand and if it doesn't bring you enjoy get rid of it I can't hold my wife in my hand. I knew you're gonna go there. Don't I can't I can't hold my wife She's too big stop it. I need both hands Even my kid kid my kids she getting big Oh, you'll you'll see sunday. You'll see. I know I can't wait Yeah, you'll see when you'll see what a bunch of boxes It's so weird because my dad we got my dad's dining table And uh, two of the end seats have the armchair rest on them. It's so This morning Jen's eating breakfast at the end of it. There's a bunch of crap all over in the dining room It's just kind of weird. It's like watching someone eat breakfast over their fallen ruined empire But still like, you know, it's still enough of the trappings of privilege Yeah, and they can even bed make the contrast even more stark That's why I asked you the first thing I asked you was like whether you set the bed up because what we usually do See, we usually I usually make sure there's sheets Available like I keep sheets in a place where I know where to get to them And so then I throw those on the mattress But we always sleep on the floor for the first couple nights after a move because I don't want to put the bed together Is I'm too tired they see I don't have a fancy Bed frame or a bed a fancy bed frames are the ones you don't have to assemble Yeah So I just have the standard, you know universal thing that you put the box spring on Uh, and that was already set up. The only thing I was missing was the fitted sheets But I found the box. So what I did was I took all those things That day that morning I didn't even wash them. I just I just folded them into a square and put them in a space bag Ah smart I used space I used I bought a lot of that's the other thing about like a lot of space bags They don't they they suck for long term Holding because they eventually leak But for moving they're great I just have to be careful that ellie doesn't get stuck in one or something. Yeah All right folks. Thanks for watching She'll be online shortly And we will be back on monday for more hilarious hijinks