 Welcome back, welcome back. This is still why in the morning and I, you know, I appreciate you that you've chosen to stick with us. If you're just joining you're still in time for the first conversation of the day. We are talking on today's health segment we're talking more on environment and the environment we're talking about the African climate crisis that we're experiencing. We want to understand climate change. What is it that people are talking about if you've had COP28 and you really don't understand what is a big fuss about, you know, climate and all that. That's what we're here to talk about today and we are joined by experts in this on my right, immediate right. I have Mudoni Trufena who's the founder of Mazngira Saturday, Saturday's Nation and just next to her we have Felix Karaoke who's the program leader Rotary International COP28. Alright, I hope I've introduced you right. Let me get to you just so as to confirm. Yeah, I'm the founder of Mazngira Saturday's Foundation and I work with kids on Saturdays. Okay, you work with kids on Saturdays? Yes. In regards to environment? Yeah, in regards to environment we have our Repair and Park in Ghaduraini along Thicke Road where kids come on Saturday to learn about environment and the kind of solution that they can provide and also we do a lot of activities together. Mostly they are art-based so that we can engage everyone and we make it exciting and easy and simple for them to learn. Okay, I love that kids are also being engaged, you know, with helping the environment. To you Felix? Yes, my name is Felix Kimani Kariuki. I'm ASRA Africa Chapter Chair that is Environmental Sustainability Rotary Action Group. I'm also a member of Lavinton Eco Rotary Club which is the first eco-based Rotary Club in Africa and it's been a joy pretty much working in that group and with that agenda reason I say so it's because the environment is where we live. The climate is something that we need to be in order at the moment because it's a big crisis and so working with Lavinton Eco we've been able to do a lot. Trufena can testify to the same, she's a Rotoract. What happens is Rotary has different levels. There is now the Rotary then we have the Rotoract that is basically students who are in I'd say college or just finished college and also we have now the Interact that is members who are in high school. So how we met when she was a Rotoract and so you are able to work as Lavinton Eco Rotary Club and also the baby which is the eco-variance of which she's a member of and this much I can say about it but it's up to you now. Okay so maybe we'll get back to that later on but let's now talk about the African climate summit and not really the African climate summit but the African climate crisis that that is there. So why do we need to have the talks on African climate crisis? What's happening to the climate for people that really don't understand about it? Let me start with you. Yeah so for people actually we need to introduce art yeah because art has the ability to tap to the depth of the emotions of people and spark conversations and also we artists are able to break down scientific data that in a way that it can be it can be perceived by the common public. So the first one of the things we need to do is to look at the way we can be able to bring the common public to understand what the climate crisis is all about so that we can be able to spark innovative solutions and inspire actions from everyone. Okay so art is part of one of the solutions you know of just communicating and breaking down the scientific jargon. To you Felix what is the climate crisis all about before we get to the solutions? Okay right now we are trying as much as possible for the warming not to go beyond 1.5 degrees Celsius. Right now looking at the temperatures we are living in we are pretty much above that. It's still it's still habitable the world still is but you see the catastrophe that's resulting from it. We are having the meltdown at the Arctic's we are having the flooding taking place. We are having extreme droughts like five seasons this happened and we saw what happened in Somalia, Ethiopia, northern part of Kenya, Algeria, Tunisia they had wildfires. We saw the tsunamis that affected down south we're talking of Malawi, Mozambique all this is because of the temperature increase so right now what you're trying to do is to make sure that we ensure that the temperature does not go beyond 1.5 degrees extra B because we are measuring ourselves from industrial age pre-industrial age that's how you're measuring ourselves so the increase has been going on going on I know the the highest that was it was around the year 2016 when it really went high and then kind of spiked now it's been rising again and Paris agreement was all about that to ensure that the temperatures don't go beyond 1.5 degrees Celsius. The coming summit COP28 it's more like they're taking stock what has happened how we are achieving anything as any remarkable changes since the last time we met. COP the conference of parties began the year 1995 so that's how you come to 28 right now and it's been like since 2021 there was an aspect of every single country has to be able to commit to how much carbon dioxide they will allow to be emitted in their own country so that when you talk about carbon emission that's what we're talking about exactly and that's what's causing the the temperature increase because we have too much of it in the air industries do cost that deforestation does cost that fossil fuels which is a big conversation right now as to why we are having COP28 in a country that's the biggest producer of fossil fuel so that's controversial still so it's an issue of what which way to go now because it seems like the temperatures are not really going down they're actually going up initially we were looking at at least 30% reduction but now we are looking at 43% reduction which means we are not making any improvements so where are we lagging that's the question the fashion industry does contribute to the same I think it's number four if I'm not wrong the fashion industry itself because what you for example a trouser can be able let's look at a trouser jeans trouser production of it end-to-end you're looking at at least 150 150 carbon I mean CO2 mega you know metric tons it just one one trouser how does one trouser produce because what you're looking at is the whole entire process from production to until the government has been very and how much has been produced in terms of CO2 and then we look at agriculture agriculture remember that catches our mainstay and agriculture produces about 20% of CO2 and then the worst is livestock livestock produces 14% of that so implication is there's a push towards people eating less meat there's a push towards people not focusing so much on livestock which is still according to some cultures that is unacceptable and it won't happen exactly yeah so if you look at a country like Denmark I think it was increased the attacks on meat so as to discourage people from consuming meat so what is being pushed for is what they call the plant-based diet because they say once we adopt the plant-based diet then we decrease the amount of methane the amount of gas CO2 that's going into the air so eventually that's the whole agenda just to make sure that CO2 is not in the air right now we have an overload I think about a thousand gigatons of CO2 that is just the overload that's not even the continual emissions that are taking place so implication is instead of reducing we actually add increasing exactly so it's an issue of what steps do we need to take to to ensure that we're decreasing in terms you know producing and also how are we able to decrease what's already an overload in the air so that's what the conversation is all about wow and I love how you have summarized this in a very simple way the CO2 the excess CO2 that's in the air that we're trying to use and it's you know I'm actually it's very interesting that even agriculture something that you know you wouldn't think adds to the CO2 the air promoting the climate change that we're seeing is actually a part of it there's a culture there's fashion you dress but you don't really know what what it costs you know the environment and there's a lot to it so back to you what do you think what do you think okay before we went go to what what we think should be done but how from the conversations that have been going on since 19 you've said it said 1995 so what is not going right if over the years for all those years there have been talks there's been meetings and you know it's still increasing nothing good is happening so far nothing substantial has happened so what is not going right I think it goes down to representation matters in the policymaking processes no matter how much you go to the street and you know activists they go to the street you give your views on the street the polly the decisions are made in the policy tables and programs so that goes to representation matters and also the the energy on the implementation of the policies that are made in the cops okay yeah so that's okay what about you Felix what has not they've been quite some steps towards ensuring that we are achieving what we need to achieve but remember different countries have different mainstays or rather what contributes to their GDP some countries depend on almost 90% on coal at least us as a country we are I think 90% renewable energy others they depend so much on fuel you know fossil fuel so getting ourselves onto the same table to agree who or rather what percentage should you as a country commit yourself to decreasing so we achieve our agenda generally capitalistic while we live in whereby we want to make as much money as possible so all these are just distractors but there've been some achievements here and there I mean look right now we have electric vehicles on the road right yeah yeah we have electric bikes on the road right so you see those those are trends towards that agenda we are in fact there was a time whereby if your house produces a hundred liters of water or other consumes a hundred liters of water you're supposed to put some solar panels okay that is a mandate up to now I don't know if it's enforced but it's a man it's a it's a it's a low actually okay so so my point is there been steps towards that but it's it's an issue of we are not doing as as much as we need to and that's why you see that the achievement is not as much as it needs to be take agriculture for example remember it's our mainstay right yeah and how our farmers farm is traditional implication is you find most of the farmers because you're looking at 90 something percent of small-scale to medium-scale farmers they've never tested their soil implication is they depend so much on fertilizer you see a long time ago fertilizer never used to be in the scene yeah but after World War two there's something called industrialized farming which happened in the west and this destroyed their soil we took it up as something that we should also adopt unfortunately it's also destroying our soil and in addition to that what's happening is that's when now you have things like soil erosion that's we have things like flooding a healthy soil can never be carried away by water what's carried away by water is the dust and dust comes when there is it's a long story what we need for example maybe if I break it down to you you might understand a little bit better we need as much carbon as possible in the soil as much as possible in the soil yes as much as possible I think it can absorb up to 4,000 gigatons there's no question about it we need it as much as possible and that's why things like for sale fuel is a big debate because the more you mind the more you dig the more you release what's carbon is there back to the air so we need all the carbon in the soil now the form of farming that we do which is tillage it releases the carbon out of the soil back into the air when you're using your tractors when using your jambes you're actually destroying a whole framework in the soil and taking the carbon back into the air so the kind of farming as I was trying to point out to is that it's still traditional whereby we still practice what's causing the damage in the air that is releasing carbon the kind of farming that is supposed to be practiced is no tillage no tillage is whereby what you don't dig but you kind of create furrows because what we need on the soil is as much biomass as possible and that's when I remember you were taught I don't know if you did agriculture but back in my day we did agriculture and there was something called mulching there's something called cover crops now we've been having a lot of monocrops whereby just one kind of crop and what's happening is with one monocrop retaining the moisture on the soil is close to impossible and that's what you need in such a way that you're able to retain the carbon also in the soil the trees they take in the carbon they give us the oxygen now the carbon the trees take they take it down to the roots down to the soil when it gets to the soil it creates a gel called gelatine now this gel is what enables the soil working with the fungi to create the kind of nutrients that the plant needs when this framework when you dig you cut down this framework what happens releasing the carbon back to the air now you see what now you see the whole chemistry biology behind it there's much to farming than just digging there's a whole science behind that's going to help the environment like mulching you're saying cover crops yeah okay rotational grazing all right because what happens is when you do rotational the the lifestyle they leave their droppings right and this is needed in the soil a healthy soil just a table spoonful of a healthy soil has much more biodiversity than the population in the world just a tablespoon just a table spoon so what happens is we're lacking that biodiversity in the soil at the moment and the problem is we only have approximately one extension officer to 5,000 farmers now many farmers have never seen an extension officer and remember the traditional and you're looking at an age group of 65 plus so guess what happens they'll still practice the old way yeah our soil about 37 percent of it is degraded on the continent about 46 percent of it is degraded we're not the only ones in the u.s. over 40 percent of their soil is still degraded they approximate by the year 2050 if we still continue farming the way we continue the way we are farming now we're gonna be looking at 90 percent of the soil degraded which means what now the dangers is the risk is is they're projecting the population to increase by 60 percent by that same year by that same period and if our soil is degraded which means less yield less quality of food and the population is increasing and right now we still have 256 million people on the continent of Africa that are sleeping hungry then we are looking at a crisis yeah so the whole climate crisis is its reality yes and now we're going to face the problem of starvation exactly what people are actually experiencing even now yes but it's going to be even worse than it is exactly so to you Muzoni what do you think should be done what is it what are some of the mitigation measures actually my host was asking for for Kenya is it whose comparing mitigation is it are we mitigating are we adapting you know what's the difference between the two we in Africa we we are more adapting because we least contribute to the crisis yeah okay so we are that we bear the brands you know what the developed countries have done so ours more is on adapting and the president I think doing the climate summit said that declare that climate adaptation as a key priority for delivering Africa's march to sustainable economic transformation and green growth so what are some of them what are some of the things that we need to do to to get to this yeah we just need to like find out of any initiate yeah like create initiatives yeah to lead to adaptation yeah in our local like a locally led actions yes like yeah like what you do in yeah we must focus on beating plastic pollution so we we focus on sustainable fashion like what I'd like this is for sustainable fashion because this yeah my hair my hair is plastic free and it's reusable so this is the second year I'm using the same hair I just wash and wear so mine is also sustainable because it's dreadlocks okay I'm staying longer yeah you know okay because the other human hairs are plastic and they cannot be reused because they are hygienic so it's contributing to the crisis we just find our own small ways to reduce the crisis yeah I'm also a fashion artist so I use plastic milk bags to create fashion wears so that's a some things that we can do in our small ways we don't need to do big things so even in our small capacity just you as a youth doing what you can within yourself within your capacity to just save the environment is a big plus to what they're what we're doing the bigger picture it contributes to it right sure okay well Felix you want to pick from that she mentioned plastic it's the big talk right now I know there's an organization like team our group that you take plastic and they build a house structure out of it that is durable there are many organizations that are doing adaptive matters because as you mentioned as she said Africa we are looking at four percent in terms of contribution to greenhouse gas four percent so we are not the majority in terms of costing all these problems we are kind of living with from climate change flooding and all that deforestation that is us there's no question about it but we cannot put that on anybody else but you have to come up with a system that takes care of that deforestation you know like the 15 billion you know trees we are supposed to plant yeah and rotary has been planting for years and years she was a girl scout they've been planting for years and years so this are just identifiable measures you know for us to be able to kind of mitigate us but adoption is pretty much what we are pretty much you know doing as as a population as a continent you know there was a conversation that as much as Africa can produce you know so much solar you know we need to be able to engage in that the financing that goes into that sector we only get about a think two percent of it compared to the rest of the world who actually don't have much to give compared to us in terms of solar energy so these are almost an imbalance when it comes to financing in that climate financing and we need much of that for us to be able to help the rest of the world to be able to meet the offsetting that they do or other that is needed I don't know if I answered your question yes speaking about climate financing you've just talked about that I understand that you know the developed countries had pledged I think a hundred billion you know how you know but when you said earlier on that we've not really been receiving this have they kept to their word what needs to be done is this will this form part of the conversation at COP 28 in Dubai yes definitely twill because COP 28 is all about stock taking what what do we miss the mark where the gaps where the loopholes what didn't we do what do we need to do when they are committing that to a hundred billion what happens is there's no pinpointing who's gonna give it to who you see some some some stuff were pretty much and defined and that brought a whole issue you know in terms of controversies and all but now it's an issue of after the Africa climate summit we know what we want we know how we need the financing of it to be structured in such a way it's fair play because and then at the end of the game it's not because as I mentioned if you look at carbon credit for example in the Western world you are looking at a price of $200 plus you look at Africa we're looking at an average of $8 for that so question is why and we're the ones who are actually helping you to offset so why are we getting the less portion of it and yet we are the ones who are actually suffering because of the industrialization that's taking outside of our continent so the restructuring is is key there's no question about it it was mentioned in the Africa climate summit those are consensus about it that's where there was the Nairobi declaration about it so that's that's pretty much has to be talked about and I'm sure it will be well-addressed all right yes just before I come to you Muzvani about the still and the finances in what form does it come because does it come as a grant does it come as a loan that will need to repay after some time just to make it clear for for us to understand the financing it's got to be mixed it's a mixed bag it's a mixed bag why is it a mixed bag it's because grants will come to enable we are not all at the same level in terms of GDPs in every country so some will come in terms of you know credit there's no question about it so the financial structure will take some will come as loans there's no doubt about it so it will take it to be a mixed bag yeah it would be but at the end of it it will all amount to what needs to be yes okay all right back to you coming to you Muzvani he has been talking Felix has been talking about carbon credits so for people that don't understand what carbon credits is explain to us what it is the carbon credits is the the compensation that we get for the emissions that is caused by mostly the global the global global north community so once like it's calculated what I mean we given like the compensation that you get to finance the activities that you're doing on the local levels to reduce the impact of the climate crisis mostly caused by the global north communities okay yeah so how do we get this compensation Felix you look like want to say something just to add to what she said that one carbon credit is 1000 tons of CO2 1000 kilograms that's yeah pretty much yeah yeah so that's what it is so one ton of CO2 equals to what one carbon credit so how much you're able to sequester that's another jargon which I might have to break down but it's true it's true I mean it's been it's been mythical to many people as I mentioned during the Africa climate summit when people are being interviewed 90% could not even mention one SDG out of 17 so all these jargons need to be broken down much more advocacy needs to be done and so that's what a carbon credit is it's an issue of okay how much CO2 have I taken from the air put it back down in the soil how much CO2 have I prevented for being produced especially in the fashion industry so that's what it is okay and I know that people are getting into carbon credits as a means I don't know of making money because it can be so if myself I decide to plant cheese and then I okay I don't know the math around it very well but I decide to plant cheese then I get the money out of it from a company is that how it goes okay that's also another myth that needs to be broken down okay reason I say so it's because you need a forest of trees over a period of time to be able to sequester enough for you to at least acquire enough carbon credit that you can be able to trade in the market so take an acre of trees at least an acre of trees give it at least five years maybe three years and then now at least after all measurements have been done then at least you can have something to tender that's good enough to be able to be considered for such a market so it's more than just one tree the forest it's exactly that's the point of it and so it's it's over time it's not like I plan today and then give me my money tomorrow no you it takes time it takes time so because at the end of the day it's its behavior based also that's what you need to understand yes everything about the carbon credit and the carbon market its behavior yeah based all right boxy mozany some of the things that we are seeing in Kenya apart from now this the initiatives that you've mentioned but also companies coming think private companies and the electric cars how much how much do you think you have done as a country to participate in this we've done relatively good but there's still a lot we need to do yeah what what area do you think we can improve on better well we can improve on financing that's one and also I still insist on representation matters okay because we are not able to understand everything we know to be everyone is not represented and I'm saying this because if I've given chance to speak again I'll just speak a whole hour but yeah yeah I'm an artist I'm an activist yeah yeah if you look at the art sector and if it we adequately represented in this policy and programs making tables then we're going to give a whole impact yeah so to me it's about representation because we're going a lot I threw a lot we're doing a lot and we are still not doing a lot so we can only know if we include everyone you can include an artist even kids even include you know intergenerational dialogue if you have it then you have everything that we need because and also the government and they yeah the government is doing well so we should not be like fighting the government we need to to be like be in the advocacy space with the mind and attitude of providing solutions yes yeah so if you talk about companies that we have so many thematic areas that we can cover so if you talk about electric vehicles that is one that is energy so it's doing well on energy but what about finance what about inclusivity you know and other like innovation and technology so we should look at everything like we have all the avenues to explore so if we are able to explore all the avenues then we're able to have all the answers if you look at electric because that's just one but we're doing well but again we need to explore all the points we have totally not done anything on yeah sure inclusivity okay okay what have you what impact have you been able to do in your own capacity with your team and you know the different things that you're doing yeah in art so I'm the creativity that UNSDG scan has contacted so we've done a lot of impact in information yeah in giving information to the public through art I'm a guitarist I've been going to the streets you know singing in the clubs and also like what are you doing my small ways with my kids so they're able to learn as they grow and they're able to create more impact because they'll have more knowledge about it when they're growing yeah and we're just happy enough because at least for the first time in the Coptini 8 we're having arts and entertainment pavilion in the blue zone you know and we having a Coptini 8 report on the artists and we're going to release it in a music form so it's we feel like we're being included like there's already a movement in the UN that has arts and art and culture growing but still if you look at it there are no artists they're not they're not artists in it like there are no artists in the room giving inputs to programs and policies so want to be represented like just like it doesn't it's not appropriate to have a whole panel of adults speaking about youth people I mean youth young people is the same way that it is not appropriate to have non-performing artists speaking about the artists we need to start looking at artists as intergenerational professional and stakeholders the investing holders who can and need to speak for themselves okay but at least now there's a step you have a platform that you given that Coptini 8 okay very interesting and for the youth that are wondering how do they get involved in this conversation how do they know who's representing them at Coptini 8 who are usually there who goes on behalf of you know Wanjiko or the common one I'm sure yeah any of you can answer that she can tell you how to qualify to Coptini 8 it was competitive I think she was top 20 out of a hundred thousand applications over ten thousand applications and I talked to it and she Wow congratulations yes so we have different organizations who will send the youth we have the Pan-African Climate Justice Alliance right we've been doing a lot of work especially with university students this day UK YCC I think it's called right yeah who are part of Greenpeace so they're different initiative sending youth so in fact we even have the which was it was good for me to see the Ugly Can Church they do have representatives and this was impressive for me to see because many a times it's not like you see the church you know in that space yeah and actually this is the first year that Pope Francis our Pope is going to be part of because it's critical it's critical he's a force by himself so that's top of approval on that it's gonna bring a lot of buying into it because we have a lot of Catholic you know members so it's it's critical for him to do that especially because of how much power he has and influence and it's as you say it's a climate crisis it is a crisis it's it's more like an emergency as in if you don't do anything now we are looking at our own disaster what you're trying to fight for is humanity to continue existing or not that's what you're fighting it's as simple as that and we are at the end of it if we if we don't do things right you're looking at more disasters you saw the flooding that's taking place yeah you saw the lives lost in fact this is an after effect it is an after effect exactly and then I mean as I mentioned our soil is degraded so by and I mentioned 90% by 2060 is gonna be degraded if you still keep farming the same way so it's a crisis which means we lack food so much needs to be done the fashion industry you see so many clothes being thrown out plus it's being thrown out so it's a crisis that needs to be addressed other than that a humanity is looking at its own end so instead of looking at my end why can't I fight for survival that's what you're doing at the moment okay it's that bad it's crazy we need to do something about it literally and now as we wrap up on this conversation I want you both to say something your final you know say on this to to the youth that is watching the youth that are watching but before that you know do we have after cop 28 do we have you know those that are in the government those that make policies do do we have them there and will they be accountable to us from you know to give us a report tell us this and this is what we're going to to see this is what needs to be done this is what was agreed on yes so let me ask you mother yeah the reports are done by different groups depending on those who represent we have represented by the government we have represented for the youths from the artist so everyone has is accountable to giving reports okay yeah so we will see that yeah you'll see that okay so that's something good give us your parting short to this to the youth who's watching right now and if you want to speak directly to the camera that's your camera mm-hmm so yes I'm expect adequate representation from creation to 30 units digits and we do our work and they do our artists delegation we are looking and we're aiming to put the artist as the integral component of cop 28 yes thank you very much where can people find you on social media or your organization yeah my social media personal social media on Facebook it's moudoni shrufena on tic-tac moudoni and a scot-rofen I do creative work on environment and on instagram moudoni and a scot-rofen okay awesome thank you very much with only we appreciate your insights to this conversation at gflex my parting short is there's money to be made there's no question about it in green jobs get technical skills because at the end of the day we need people who can be able to take ion batteries convert them into something else because right now almost every house or rather every person goes through three phones in a year and what happens is at the end of it when you dispose it that's another hazard to the environment we are creating but if you can find a way to be able to recycle that you can find a way to be able to we have the we center the we center they can give you the skills to be able to find how you can be able to make money out of it by collecting them and also being able to dispose through them if it's the job you can work as an extension service officer to be able to help the farmers practice what we call regenerative agriculture that's another job on its own so there are many many green jobs that even though it's a crisis a crisis only brings a solution so it's up to you to be able to sit back and ask yourself whatever skill you have how does it apply to this next economy that we have and we have technical colleges TVET and also if you want to get more information on the same as I mentioned some people are using plastic to build houses I just reach out to me at felix.kimani.org then we'll be able to converse more on the same okay wonderful I love that there's opportunities in the green sector whatever you are skilled at you can divert it on this side and with crisis comes opportunities solutions amazing thank you guys for coming on board and sharing your insights on this that has been Felix Karaoke who's the program leader Rotary International Corp. 28 and Muzoni Trufena the founder of Mazinger Saturday's Nation I hope you've taken something from this conversation something has been made clearer to you about the climate conversation we're going to take a short break and then Brian Sakwa will be coming next with the conversation stick with us