 Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Debbie Willis, and I, my pronouns are she, hers, and hers, and I lead the DEI certificate program at the University of Michigan Rackham Graduate School. We started this series because scholars wanted to hear from real people their experiences leading equity, diversity, and social justice efforts. This lead conversation examines how faculty, staff, and student leaders in higher education can address the trauma that marginalized populations in our community are facing due to racism and structural injustice. This session will focus on the black community. We want to thank you all for joining us today, given all this going on in the world. We appreciate your presence here. You received a prompt that this session is being recorded. Your audio and video has been muted for quality of the recording. However, we encourage you to engage in the conversation through the question and answer portal. We'd love to bring your voices in. If you see a question that you like to hear the response, please like that question. We will ask questions with the broadest interest first. We ask that you remain patient with us as over 1500 of you registered for this webinar, and we received close to 100 questions. We will not get to all of them in one hour. But we are committed to continue the conversation and we invite you to join us and we'll explain that opportunity a bit later. Structural and systemic racism has been historically evidenced and we've witnessed it publicly a lot in the last few months. It's played out with COVID-19 with African Americans being negatively impacted by this virus within grossly grossly disproportionate rates. And we've witnessed it in the most recent violence that we've witnessed with the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor and Tony McDade. It's trauma on top of trauma and our community is hurting. Our featured guest today will speak to these issues and answer some of their questions, some of your questions. They will introduce themselves and then tell us a little bit about their journey to leadership in this space and some of the work that they're doing on racial equity and anti-racism. Justin, we agree to start with you. Good morning. Thank you Dr. Willis for bringing this panel together and having this important conversation. I'm grateful to be able to share my experience and my voice on this topic. I'm a dual master's candidate here at the University of Michigan pursuing degrees in social work and business administration. Before arriving in grad school, I was a returned Peace Corps volunteer serving in Rwanda and after that focused on fighting HIV epidemic, which we know disproportionately impacts black communities. And so as a black queer man and somebody who has been working to fight the manifestation of racism when it comes to public health, I'm going to very much know about the impact of racism. And so talking about racial justice and racial trauma is something that significantly and directly impacts my life. A lot of the times when we're having these conversations, you know, they're emotionally charged. And I was very much coming to grad school was thinking about how can we, how can I contribute to helping people increase their emotional intelligence so they can have more effective conversations and dialogue around race and taking action towards racial justice. So that's why I founded a social venture, the QT social venture, which does just that helps individuals and organizations increase their emotional intelligence are more effective in a work around racial justice using social emotional learning. And so when we think about the dialogue that we have about race as a black person, I oftentimes think about, you know, the increase in racial stress, navigating internalized voicelessness thinking about the rage I have on these topics. And oftentimes I met with, you know, white and non black people of color who, you know, trying to navigate feelings of, you know, being defensive or trying to navigate, maintaining their sense of self, I mean their accomplishments against the backdrop of white supremacy and whatnot. And so I'm very much committed to this work about, you know, what can we do to understand the emotional impact the understanding impact of trauma, enhance all of our ability to better navigate emotions around these very emotionally charged and challenging yet urgent topics. Thank you, Justin Angie. Good afternoon everyone. I'm so grateful to be sitting here alongside Justin and Steven and you Debbie. I've been working personally and professionally in the DEI space in one capacity or another for 15 years plus. And I have to say that I am still learning every single day. On a personal level, I am finding deeper ways to show up for black lives. And though most of my personal work is in white spaces, I am showing up there to center and protect black lives. Professionally, my commitment is to show up in three distinct ways with other white colleagues to deepen understanding and empathy for all black indigenous and people of color communities with fierceness and with empathy, with black colleagues to listen to practice and care and to center healing and transformative justice. And with all of us to create spaces for courageous conversations about race. A few of the things that we're doing currently within organizational learning where I serve as the DEI program lead is offering a four week learning opportunity on anti racism, which is really just a place to start. This will be followed up by addressing systemic racism and then visible racism. And we're working on a digital toolkit called showing up, which covers the areas of support solidarity springboards for conversation and a section for leaders. I have to say that I am really fortunate to have a diverse leadership team that works with me closely. We have two key partners on our campus as well. It's the Office of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and the Office for Help, Equity and Inclusion. These leadership teams are all working together to support to advocate to remove barriers and to model what it looks like to lead culture change. I'm also really fortunate to be surrounded by kind, loving, amazing human beings who call me out when I act or speak in racist ways, which is a gift for me to learn to change and to be a better human being. Steven. Thank you, Debbie, for organizing this and all the others who are involved and everyone else who is participating. I am a social professor in the Department of Afro American and African Studies, known as DAS, Vice acronym, and in the residential college where I teach in the social theory and practice program. And I'm also the faculty director of the semester program, which is a program housed in the residential college, but open to all undergraduate U of M students where they spend a semester living in the city of Detroit, working at it in a community based internship for which they get course credit and taking other courses as part of a holistic experience and way of learning from and with people in the city of Detroit. My approach to what I do at U of M and to the concerns that are brought us here today are grounded in the field of black studies. And when I say black studies, I mean, in the broadest sense of the term as it was created really in the 1960s to include African American studies, permanent studies, African studies under various names, Africana studies, and so forth, which has at its core, the mission, the function of studying and many actions challenging white supremacy, expanding university, expanding how we think about education and what's known about black people throughout the world, and that establishing a direct link between what happens at the university, what happens outside the university, all again with the goal of understanding the histories, trajectories and importantly the struggles of black people in this country and throughout the world. My journey to become a black studies scholar has many starting points, some of which I'm perhaps not quite clear to me, in terms of background and the people who were important in my life. But one of the most clear starting points is my graduate studies at the University of Texas. So I studied economics and then history in graduate school at the University of Texas in the 1990s, which is when Texas was going through affirmative action struggles. And being involved in those struggles helped me to see the role of the black studies can play, helped me to see the struggles that take place in the university and how they are related to broader struggles in society. And that was reinforced when I came to Yodemite 2002, which at that time also was going through affirmative action struggles. And one of the things I take from that, those struggles and at the moment, relative for our conversation today is the language of diversity. So in the 1990s, struggles over affirmative action very much use the language of racial justice and racial diversity. It's a much complicated story, a long story, but over the next decade or so, the word racial was dropped from diversity, and that language diversity has survived and more. So I think about diversity, equity and inclusion on our campus and more broadly, from that vantage point, with a critical perspective, which we could say more about with the course of the conversation. Finally, I'm part of organization outside of Yodemite, the James Gracie Boggs Center to nurture community leadership based in Detroit. And it's in that organization and the political spaces that that brings me, I try to bring some of that into my work in the classroom outside the classroom, and that's part of how I try to engage in the struggles that we're talking about here at Yodemite. Thank you, thank you all. So we have a lot of questions we're going to jump right in. Our first question is, how do we avoid the burden of racial equity and DEI work falling disproportionately on faculty, students, and staff of color? Justin, would you like to start with that please? Yeah, I think I would start by inviting us to reflect on you know how we got to this point. You know let's go back a couple hundred years and think about you know who kidnapped you know black people from the continent of Africa and brought them here and exploited them and built this society that you know built the foundation to decide that we live on today. Who wrote and enforced the black codes that you know dictated the lives of black people after their emancipation? You know who participated in white flight and so on and you know hiring you know for creating predominantly white institutions and often excluded you know black people. I think you know the premise of this question, oftentimes people think that you know black faculty or you know black students bear the burden of responsibility for addressing racial justice and DEI. But I think we really have to look at the people who created these systems and were benefiting from these systems and we have the disproportionate amount of power to adjust these systems. And so I think you know it's the people who created the system, the people who have the power to adjust them, who have the burden to addressing them today. And there's definitely a role for black people in that. I think you know going to your black colleagues and black students to make sure you're doing it right to make sure that you know the steps and actions and plans that you're implementing are meeting their standards and their needs. But I think when we look back at you know the last time there was you know a climate that was similar to this maybe the 1960s. There's the establishment of the Kerner Commission and the Kerner report which really laid out a blueprint for addressing anti black racism in this country. So we know that black people have shared time and time again what they need, and you know what steps to be taken to dismantle white supremacy and address anti black racism this country. So the plans are there and I really think it's up to the people who have built the system who are benefiting from the system to take action and address it. Thank you Justin. A next question is, I feel overwhelmed with a sense of guilt for not doing enough. How can I navigate this space and find a way to take action. Angie, you want to start with that one. And I want to speak directly to my white fellow human beings who are joining us today. Guilt is a very common response for white people when we begin to take racism seriously. So it's normal and in of itself it's not problematic. But unhealthy guilt leads to paralysis and inaction. We can actually use our guilt to avoid further engagement and to continue our amnesia in our anesthesia. You can also use guilt to become resentful. And that looks a lot like you are making me feel guilty and that's not fair. You can use your guilt to become incapacitated, which looks a lot like I can't do anything right. I just give up. The thing I want you to consider with me today is that all of these responses are really exempting us from any further action. It is serving to protect our position and our privilege. And it indirectly is blaming black people or anti racist whites, because we are saying they are causing us to feel guilty. Something I'm really challenged with and that I'm working really hard on that I'd love to invite you with on this journey with me is to consider spending less time thinking about how you feel, and spending more time thinking about how your actions and ideas make others feel. For white people so often we are so desperate to be the good ones or to be seen as the good ones. But when we neglect our responsibility and continue to just cycle in our guilt, what we're really saying to black people is that my feelings are more important than your experience. Our work as white people is not for us. It's not so that we can feel better. The point of anti racism work is to protect and center black lives. This is not a space for self improvement. I have found that guilt can actually be a really powerful motivating factor for change. Healthy guilt can lead to change to transformation to new life to a reimagined future. Racism and our involvement in it cannot be avoided. I didn't choose to be born into a culture of white racism where white racism is embedded. Nor did I choose to be socialized into entitlement and superiority. And racism is real and I am involved in it and you are involved in it. And so we really must take responsibility to work against it. So my invitation to you today is really to choose not to confuse guilt with responsibility and honestly the best antidote that I know of to guilt is accountability action. Thank you Angie. Justin, would you like to add to that please. I actually I think Angie really hit a lot of the points I wanted to address there and so I think you know need to add. Perfect. Stephen, would you like to add or no. Just an amen. Amen. Okay. So our next question Stephen you might want to address. We've had many graduate students who plan to be future faculty ask us this question. How can I best facilitate race related conversations between students in the classroom. Well, I think Angie just modeled it actually. We try to create common space for everyone to participate. And I said common space. My thing was common ground. I'm not saying that we're all the same not saying we're all affected the same. I'm saying that in the classroom, try to create some space where we all have some. And safety to participate some investment and some valuable contribution to me. And this depends on a range of things that spends on circumstances of the class size of the class, the subject matter, you as the instructor your own subject position. I'm thinking of course a race gender class with other as well. The combination of all those things are really important here so my answer is speaking in a broad sense because those recognition of those various circumstances is crucial. But so, yeah, I think find some way to create some common space some common or shared states in the conversation. One way I think we can do that. And again, Angie to spoke to this preface to this is to understand what race is and the concept of race. And we have a lot of language about race being a social concept power so forth. Figure out how you want to present that but the point is to show students their race is, it's a lie so fiction, but it has these very real and has had these very real consequences and impacts. I'm emphasizing that race is something that has been created and is recreated, but that is a fiction in the sense that it doesn't do what a proportionate a proportionate to segment human human beings into these mutually discreet, mutually distinct categories which in fact, cannot be done. And then racism as far as characters to those groups and most point across them in a hierarchy racism and white supremacy. And this is to see that races created that it's a lie. And then this is, you know, I think, Andy's commentary speech to this. It's a lie. We've all been lied to the lie has different meanings for me than it means for you but we've all been lied to. And so that can be a starting point. And find other ways to create that that that space in the classroom. Music, for instance, can be an example. Racism fuse and hip hop music. For, for example. I think students will be familiar with hip hop music and using that or some other reference that they have familiarity with but get them to see how this conversations and these questions and interrogations can be had through things that they are already familiar with again recognizing all the other circumstances that have to be taken into account. Thank you so much. Our next question. Higher education is a system of white supremacy. How do we deconstruct dismantle and or reconstruct and rebuild it while we are in it. Justin, can you start with that please. I think there's something beneficial even in the phrasing of the question and just blatantly naming it so you know whites, you know, higher education is an institution of white supremacy I think we have to be more explicit in our language when talking about you know issues of anti black racism and white supremacy. And so in doing that it's also looking at what are some of the manifestations of white supremacy culture that have become more acceptable and so things like meritocracy or professionalism or you know time when it's timeliness. Those are all aspects of you know you're, you're a white culture that we are now acceptable but are rooted in white supremacy so we need to be more explicit and naming identifying those things. I also think we have to do some introspection and be humble, you know, we're all, we all kind of these institutions are part of these institutions and benefit from them in some way. So we need to interrogate and think about the ways in which we individually maybe benefiting from white supremacy and participating in it. And I additionally think you know for people who are doing research for black indigenous and other communities of color, you know, particularly for white researchers you know we can't just research these communities we have to come alongside them and in protest and fight for them. And whatever way that looks like to you and so just researching I don't think is enough. And I think, additionally making some noise I think you know during my time here as a graduate student I haven't been silent on these issues. I work with students. Some of my fellow classmates write an op ed to encourage our program to be more explicit and anti racism and anti oppressive practice within social work. We've taken that really run with it and have worked to hold accrediting bodies accountable and so, you know, really making this national and trying to have a systemic answer to these systemic problems and so hopefully you know as you know social work is your future competencies and their accreditation standards that there will be explicit anti racist language as part of that and so I do think we have to acknowledge that we are in a system that you know perpetuates white supremacy but we're also at a point where we can most clearly see the holes and cracks in the foundation and take action to do so and so it's important that we're using our power and our privilege and our credentials within this space, hopefully dismantle it from the to the extent possible. And once we leave these institutions again how are we using the power the credentials of the class that we are crude here in a way that is dismantling and disrupting it. Disrupting white supremacy is an important question that hopefully we can continue to reflect on long after we leave these institutions. Thank you, Steven. To start out, I think five quick answers for responses. I don't know if they should be thought of as answers. First, I would say we respond carefully and consistent. To say that through thoughtful efforts and recognizing that they will need to carry out these efforts over and over again multiple times, various settings and changing context. Second, I would encourage us not to bind ourselves to the rewards and the standards of the Academy. I'm not saying not achieve your degree not achieve tenure, not do your research and publish your papers and books. I'm saying as we do those things, and even as we may achieve the accolades and the advancement so forth in the institution. If we are serious about confronting white supremacy, then we can't let those be the barometers of how well we're doing. We have other measures by which we should judge ourselves, assess ourselves and continually so. Three, find or create spaces outside the institution that can support and form or other ways bolster what you're doing in the institution. I mean, a variety of things depending on your own location and your circumstances. For, I think we have to recognize and remind ourselves that DEI is not the same as anti racist work. It's not the same as challenging confronting dismantling white supremacy. Some DIY work may move in that direction, but some may not. From the institution's perspective, it seems to me that that's not the goal. The goal is not to dismantle white supremacy. We have to, I think, use the DEI space. And I don't say that to demean anyone who has done or is doing anything under that banner, but recognize what it is and what it isn't, and then find the spaces to make it be what it can be. And I mentioned in my intro that word race or racial been dropped in that, that dialogue within the Academy and about the university couple of decades ago. I wasn't exactly saying that race has been dropped out of the I hear, but I'm raising that for a question. And it's not to say that I recognize that part of the move to diversity is to expand the range of social identities, spaces of oppression and liberation that we should be included. I'm not at all challenging that. But I'm recognizing I want us to recognize it as the base take place language moves that we have to be on guard to identify what it is we're struggling for and against. And finally, I want to offer again the field of black studies as an example as a model, as it was founded. And as it sometimes but not always perhaps not enough so not enough as it is currently practice is inherently its project was to dismantle white supremacy in institution. So I want us to look to the black studies as a historical project and as a place to mount current struggles and efforts. And for that I'll just point out that our black studies unit here that was founded in the fall of 1970 50 years ago. And so this fall we will be celebrating our 50th anniversary, and we have some activities plan to do that which have been derailed reshaped because of COVID, but please look for material about that's the 50th anniversary, which is connected to the 50th anniversary of bam one the black action movement one which took place in March, blam strike took place in March 1970. There's a lot more history and usefulness of the history that I'm only touching on the short. Great. Angie, would you like to add to that. Thank you, Justin and Steven, I would just want to ask the question do you believe that change is possible and necessary. Because if we are really going to do this we have to recognize that the root of the problem is with power and policy. So devote your attention and your time to transforming power and policy. And then to Steven's point, as we think about DEI and anti racism, are you committed to creating a culture of anti racism. And that requires that you have an understanding of what that means and that you're measuring things against that you're measuring your policies your actions your words against that. And also I think Justin mentioned this, but go beyond just naming that we are in a system of white supremacy but name all the systems within it that uphold racist ideology. And I encourage you to explore and understand what the barriers to change are for yourself and for those that you're leading. If you get the right people at the table right what does your team look like what is your leadership look like who is making decisions, who's benefiting from those decisions who's harmed by those decisions. And then just to reiterate this idea of accountability create a culture of accountability. This is one of the most necessary things and leaders are being called to accountability, not because it's a bad thing it's but because we need you. We are here in our truth telling and in our confrontation. Thank you. Thank you so much. Our next question. How can we bring anti racism into the curriculum at every school and college Steven you talked a little bit about that would you like to add there. Yes. Every school and college at your them is that what the question is asking. I think it'd be brought I can think it can be broadly defined actually every school and college in the country. How do we bring anti racism into the curriculum yeah you can start at you have them if that's where you're coming from. Well, it seems to me that this is a question. Rob sellers. And perhaps also for Mark Schlissel and Susan Collins, whose purview is the entire university. It's not to say they haven't asked the question. But I don't know. So, this is a question for them. So, but it is, it is also a question for us. And I don't feel like I have a strong answer to that because the every school and college has its own circumstances. And that's just it. But I think it will take some struggle, it will take some creating momentum and energy within each location, then each school and college. And then forcing and trying to develop that to force broader effort. But I think what we're already hearing from other questions that you've been posing and I think as some of their emerging emerging in the q amp a that the people have found robots and resistance and distractions in their efforts. So perhaps another partial answer is for us to to form like this and others which are smaller that we share with each other struggles we're facing and strategize together. Strab is strategize and mobilize around these issues around curriculum, I think would be would be helpful for everyone. So the next question is, what can I do as an ally. How can allies help. Angie, would you like to address that question. I would love to address that question. So again, I'm going to speak directly to my fellow white human beings. Well, just show up and speak up. The work of social justice and racial equity to quote Ruth King who wrote healing rage and mindful of race is that this work is messy at best. So, this means you're going to make mistakes, and you're going to make a lot of mistakes. It means that probably we're going to get a lot more wrong than we're going to get right as we try to figure this out together. So as you show up and as you make mistakes. I'm inviting you to be willing to take hold of the opportunities that arise. As a result. We are so resistant to being called racist. And when our black colleagues friends, mentors, coaches call us out. It's our tendency to disbelieve and become defensive because we so badly don't want to be labeled as a racist. We don't want to be the bad ones. What I'm encouraging you today is to just meant the most important thing I can encourage you with is to show up with humility and with authenticity. As white people, we will only do better, see better and be better human beings by being more fully authentic and our white skin and authentic in our relationships. We can't hold what it means to be white. We can't hold what it means to be, to not be white. I know that this is an illustration that has really helped me if you imagine that white privilege is this wheel and you're one spoke in that wheel. Even if you're doing the work and that one spoke is broken that wheel is still turning. And you're still benefiting the wheel of racism continues to roll on awareness is not the change. It's the everyday work. It's how you behave. It's how you show up every day. It's hard, and it's messy, and it's uncomfortable. But people are dying. So let's have the hard conversations. I want to close this idea of allyship with something with a quote from a black author. White folks need to move past their fear and call each other into deep authentic and embodied learning and on learning around what it means to be white in this country. All of what that means both the history and the present. White folks must dig in to our embodied racism, even especially if you think it's not there. And this is not just to shift what you say or how you shape your arguments or questions or Facebook posts or tweets. It's not about performing your wokeness. This isn't about what you say it's about how you act. Stating that black lives matter is a very minimum acknowledgement of humanity. The tenacity of the fight against a statement should absolutely stagger us and signal how far we have yet to go. Statements of solidarity must be actualized. We need more gentleness more compassion encouraged embodied by white people. We need people not performance. We need for expressions of black freedom, joy, grief and rage, not to cost us our lives. Thank you Angie. Justina Steven would you like to add that to that question. If I could actually add to the previous question, I'm about bringing anti-racism into curriculum. I think I can bring a couple of things from a student perspective. I think particularly, so being in social work and business, I think there has to be a lot of unlearning and relearning. And so I'll start with social work. I think when you look at the canon of any kind of discipline, it's mostly going to be white men or white people generally that we attribute to finding having founded certain disciplines and whatnot. So naturally want to teach these traditional texts and whatnot, but I think we have to be open to diversifying what we're bringing to the classroom. I think we have to acknowledge the harm that some of these disciplines have done in excluding voices of color and the harm they've done to black communities and that's a good start. I think it's also important to think about when we look at the historical exclusion of black people from a lot of these professions, they went and created their own shadow associations and trade groups and whatnot that outlined their wants and their needs. And so I think looking at some of those struggles and looking at what those communities and associations are founded, the problems that they identified with in certain professions and hope to incorporate that into the classroom. I think when I look on the business side, you know, I think, again, that reeducation has to be done. I remember talking to one of my faculty members who said, you know, the professors here, you know, are all products of the Academy they themselves and so they too have to do some work and unlearning what they've been taught. And so I think, you know, to Nicole Hannah Jones in the 1619 project, and they talk about, you know, American capitalism how it's really in many ways built off of slavery and how, you know, the ways in which a lot of lessons and management and whatnot is built off of slavery. On the business side, you know, are we going back and relearning and looking at where some of these practices actually came from and making sure that we're rooting them and where they came from and not necessarily, you know, just attributing them to white people are only teaching to, you know, the principles and texts that have been developed by white people. Thank you for adding that additional perspective. I actually want to add a few things to that question as well. Yes. Two of them come from the. I'll do quickly. Two of them come from the program that Rob Sellers and Mark Cecil put on with several guests last Friday. Yeah. One of the undergraduate students raised the issue of R&E requirements. So to really rethink and redo an expanded, maybe call it something different, but a new R&E requirement would be a concrete step toward infusing anti-racism in the curriculum. It won't do it alone, but again, I'm talking about a much more significant requirement or something like that. Secondly, Eugene Rogers on that conversation mentioned the program he did, the several last words, and he described how, when he did, I think five years ago, he said he couldn't use the words Black Lives Matter because people wouldn't, and donor, I think he said donors or others would not accept that. I think what we're talking about requires some boldness, and in that case, to stand up to them and tell them that you're wrong, that you, even if you are a donor or a powerful person, you're used to getting your way. In this case, you need to learn to listen and accept this, and if you feel uncomfortable or challenging to you to use this language, compel them, and this has got to be from the leaders of the institution to compel them to listen to open up and to hear what's going on. And I know that sounds idealistic, and it's not how the world works, not how the institution works. So be it. If we're talking about infusing the curriculum of every college and school at the university, much less than the country, then we're talking about something that's nearly impossible. We're talking about something very, so we're going to have to think boldly and imaginatively. Along those lines, a way that we can do this, I think, is for the institution to be bold and courageous when it's confronted like challenges such as with Angela Day, I'm sorry when Alice Walker was invited to campus. And because of her previous statements against Israel, which were characterized as anti-Semitic, because they were against the State of Israel, there was a lot of pushback about her, the invitation. And I recognize this is entering into really fraught waters. But please be clear, let me try to be clear on the point I'm making. Alice Walker was invited by T.W., if I recall correctly, because of her long record of cultural work and an importance to the life and black life and letters. And the opposition to her fails to recognize that. And so if the institution wants to be serious about confronting racism, serious about confronting white supremacy, and be serious about infusing anti-racism in the curriculum, and by curriculum here I'm thinking especially to outside the classroom, then it has to be willing to accept someone like her and to speak to those who see that and say that there's more to her than that supposed anti-Semitic slope. And in fact, it can be, we could perceive that black people as an affront to us for her to be that way. Okay. And the fourth one is students must demand it. The long lines of Justin was saying, okay, I'm done. Absolutely. Thank you for adding that perspective. Just for clarity, our need requirement is race and ethnicity. And that conversation was wonderful last week, and we will include that in the resources that we'll send to you because we feel like it's worth a listen. So we'll get to a few of the questions that were submitted. We have one question that had 60 something lights. And that is, what are some of the best ways to recruit black students in research in a genuine way that isn't performative. And he's in or he is in a STEM field where black women and men are grossly underrepresented. So the question is, what are some of the best ways to recruit black students and research in a genuine way. Who wants to start with that one. Justin. You know, when I'm coming to campus or thinking about a degree program, sure, I wanted to learn about, you know, the faculty and the social opportunities and career opportunities and whatnot, but you better believe as a black student, I'm going to go seek out other black students and create a positive perspective what that student experience is like. And so I think if you can create a positive experience for the black students that you currently have, they're going to be your best advocate, they're going to be the best messenger. You know what your school is providing what your department is providing and that experience and so you're focusing on the students you currently have sinning their needs, creating a safe as safe as possible and inclusive environment for them they're going to be your best ambassadors and so I would really focus on the current experience of black students. Steven or Andy, did you want to add or no. I'll just say quickly, I think there are some efforts in various places throughout the campus have have tried with various degrees of success to create research opportunities for black students. And so we should learn from those that have been going and see how we can amplify and replicate those, as well as adding additional opportunities or. Thank you. So our next question is, how can graduate students force our departmental faculty and administrators. For example chairs to be less week and at least braver about confronting racism in a more generalized way lack of in inclusivity in departments practice. Examples but I think that's the gist of the question. Justin, I see you're unmuted so I'm going to start with you. I think it's such a tough, a tough situation I think when I, you know when I first got to campus and start to see some, you know opportunities for growth, you know I tried to reach out to staff or faculty. You know who I think can give me an insight perspective and whatnot and I think one of the things they said early on is that you know students have a lot of power here. You know, understandably faculty and staff other considerations their employees of the university. And so students oftentimes you know I have the most power and can have a large platform and so oftentimes that means you know organizing and using that power and creating a voice there. And sometimes I can say, you know early on it was disappointing and frustrating I think to be a, you know tuition paying student here, who's here to learn, and not want to be burdened by having to hold institutions and you know department chairs faculty administration accountable for my learning as a black student but for the learning of all students in terms of not having you know white centered curriculum whatnot and so I think early on I, you know I very much wanted to just hold, you know administration faculty accountable. I don't know that it was the most effective route I think unfortunately it did require taking more action. And you know, organizing as students and using our voice and creating a platform, but I can only, I can hope that the more that faculty and administration. You know, are informed about, you know, anti blackness about white supremacy and its manifestation in higher ed that they will be more emboldened and more courageous and stand to these values of diversity and inclusion that, you know we hear not only at the Michigan University at the University of Michigan but at universities across the country but I think you know until then, unfortunately, as students that sometimes that burden sometimes falls to us. Steven. So the question from the perspective of the student asking how to to compel the department chairs to act. Correct. That is what appears. So, if it's undergraduates well in my case for undergraduate students or graduate students, one way would be to find other faculty members who they can be in league with and who from their vantage point can engage with speak to or put pressure on the chair. If for graduate students are going to be a different set of ways to do that, but that would be one step. Thank you. I said that requires faculty members to be willing to engage students to listen to them, help them and to join with them in coming up with the goals and the ways in which to engage and to, to push the chair. Yeah, I would just thank you Steven and Justin and I would just add, you know, from an organizational perspective that this is why competencies and expectations are so important and then accountability. If there's an expectation that faculty and administrators show up in certain ways and they're held accountable, then you're starting to change something about the systemic nature of which the students might have a different experience. If I could add one more thing to I think, you know, try and use to this point of accountability. Use, you know, document, you know, documents or professional codes to the extent that you can so if you're licensed or profession or discipline or something that you know requires licensure has a type of code of ethics and you know are there standards in there that demand you know inclusivity or diversity, or you're at a school that has a strategic plan or related to diversity where they've outlined commitments to you know anti racism, or I think even with this latest rash of, you know, violence and the statements of solidarity that we're getting, you know from institutions, whole institutions accountable to them I think that's something that has been important to me you know again looking at the you know the council and social education and their accreditation standards there are specific standards that address diversity. So those are opportunities, and those are documents and tools that you can use to hold institutions accountable and so that's been something that I think I have relied on and maybe a good starting point at your institution. That's a great point Justin thank you for adding. So our next question is how can we identify intergenerational trauma in our community. Oh, it just moved. How can we identify intergenerational trauma in our community and work to interrupt and alleviate the underlying issues. And part of those steps I think is to create the spaces for ongoing communication, so that students in particular have the opportunity to opportunities to express and process what they're feeling. And then that leads up identifying what subsequent steps institution or those in institutional can or should take. Great. So we have just about nine more minutes. We have one other question that I thought was a great one. It says that someone in their fifties and liked by a lot of people and someone in their fifties. I've seen a wave upon wave of movements rise up to address these ongoing systematic issues. Yet very little change from those in leadership positions. Is it enough to make it's enough to make a person feel hopeless. What do you think is different about today's movement. And how can we ensure that real change will result from today's movement. I'd offer two points I think in terms of generating hope I think that's so essential. I'm so movement and I, you know I've undoubtedly felt you know moments of weariness and despair. You know in the past couple of weeks and I really had to be intentional about thinking how can I generate hope and I think back to a quote that I put you know in my statement and applying to grad school. I think that is at the memorial that Brian Stevens and built that talks about I think it's a very good cloud of the phone quote that she says you know if we could withstand the lash of slavery you define what you can do in your day to move the struggle forward and start to think back to you know what my answers have had to endure in this country and thinking about the other fact that here I am now you know at a graduate school on a panel, given a platform to speak explicitly about you know anti blackness and white supremacy at a predominantly white institution and hold them accountable like that is progress. Is it where we want to be know but that's undoubtedly progress and so you know I have to look back to see how far we've come to get hope. And I think the second thing to do is to look at the steps that you're taking, I think, you know we're talking about systemic and trench issues that we want to address. And oftentimes, you know the steps and action that people are taking or marginal, I mean, piece me a lot best so I think, you know for talking about increasing representation, you know, over five years from you know one level of representation to another level of underrepresented. That's not a that's not a systemic solution. And so I think we really have to think about you know, putting forward some institutional systemic problem or solutions that address these institutional systemic problems. If the goal is really you know racially equitable and just world, you know think about the action that you're proposing and how you're going to get to that point because I think oftentimes again the steps that we're providing today don't get us to justice they don't they're there to pacify and placate her for the time being and so really think about strategically and connect the steps you're taking today to the outcomes we hope to see. Thank you, Justin, I do want to read a comment it wasn't a question but I think it's important coming from a black faculty member. He says, please listen to what we say, please reiterate what we say in meetings and give us the credit. Please invite us to coffee. Please invite us to be on panels and book collections. Please nominate us for awards. Please see us and help us not continue in our invisibility and many thanks for asking. I think that's an important contribution. We're close to our hour. One of the questions that we got repeatedly was what actions can we take to build on this movement in history and create lasting change. And so to that I have three things. One is to decide to decide this is going to be the moment in history where we make lasting change and then look at yourself look inward to see what inner work that you can do around anti racism. And this is for people of our races, including African Americans, including white Americans, everyone can look inside to see what you can do, not that we shouldn't hold our leaders accountable, because we should. And we've learned that around the strategy and mobilizing. That's when we can make a lot of change so continue to do that. But the third thing is to decide that it will be a sustained commitment. When the dust settles and a protest stops. How many of us are still going to be actively trying to do this work. And I think about myself. I think about even if I was there for George Floyd's horrific murder. What would I have done, like what I have run and try to tackle the police officer. I mean it was awful to see we all saw it. Or what I've been gripped by fear that then I would then die, or then there will be someone on my neck right and it doesn't have to be murder. What about all the other things that I see some kind of injustice happened, some policy that's not a great policy, things that I see that is not an inclusive environment. That's what I do and how many times has silence, my silence been violence. Right. So just thinking about what we can do looking in where each of us and do that over and over and over and don't lose momentum. So what we're inviting you to do, we said that we will continue our conversation, and we would love to do that. But we're also inviting you to make a sustained commitment, like every month, every 30 days say, you know what, I'm going to continue this commitment. So that in a year from now, we will get back to where we were and asking the questions what are what will be done. So for the next 12 months, every month, we'll send you an email on June 12. That's today's date, one email a month for the next 12 months for a total of 12 emails. We'll ask you first to opt in. We'll see if you won't spam you. We'll ask you first to opt in. But then if you opt in, then we'll give you the opportunity every month to think about what you committed to do. We'll ask you to commit, then we'll ask you to, we'll remind you of your commitment, and then we'll ask you to reflect on your commitment. We'll ask, how'd you do on that commitment that you had, and then you can respond. I'm doing great. Thanks. I'll continue this or you could say I'm not doing well, but I want to recommit. Right, you can always come back always come back just the decision. And then we'll ask you, we know that everyone won't do it. And that's okay. But what if a solid number of us decided to make this commitment over and over and over again. And we have what 1100 people over 1100 people on the webinar. What if we asked someone else to do it. We have over 200 people all over the, the, the United States. So what if other people at other institutions did it. And that's how we keep the momentum going and keep this sustained commitment. So we'll ask you to do that one email once a month or total of 12 months on June 12. In addition to that on the 12th of every month. In addition to that, we will continue the conversation. We still have lots of questions that weren't answered, even at registration, either at registration, or that you submitted today. And we want to continue to have these conversations and we will do that one hour every month for the next 12 months, or as long as there's interest. And so we invite you to come back. We'll have different guests. We invite you to come back and join us and just continue to recommit. So, we know that with reminders with reflection with accountability will be more likely to have a sustained commitment. With that, I want to thank you all for being with us today, and for making a commitment to be here. I want to thank our leaders who's also joined us. Dean Mike Solomon, the Dean of Rackham Graduate School has joined us today, as well as our Chief Diversity Officer and Vice Provost Rob Sellers, we appreciate your time. We appreciate our guest for sharing your experience and expertise. Thank you for joining us. I know for a fact that you all are doing the work, lots of work, and I appreciate you. What we will send you immediately following this webinar is an overwhelming number of resources, right, enough to keep you busy for quite the long time. We'll send you those resources right away, as well as the link that asks you if you want the reminder, and we invite you to join us for continued conversations. With that, I'll say thank you so much for all of you who spent time with us today and have a good day. Bye.