 Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate, the only cannabis show breaking down the myths and history in cannabis. I'm Matthew, seed maker for over a decade and a half, and this is my journey into finding my truth in this wild world of cannabis. I invite you to join me and the Canaluminati by strapping into the passenger seat, but be warned it's not always pretty. With the invasion of corporate culture into cannabis it's getting even more muddy, which is why I've made it my mission to have a permanent record before all the history is lost and buried under a pile of cookies. We're the traditional market. The Syndicate is a collection of seed makers that want to push back against all the smoking mirrors. In doing so we will continue to ruffle the feathers of those who oppose, and my personal mission has become much bigger than myself. Welcome to the cannabis underground. This is the revolution. Put us on. I guess we're gonna find out right now. It says we're live, so I think we are live. Let's see. So if I'm checking the stream we are not yet, but... No, we're not yet. It says waiting for us. Wait. Oh, there we go. It's just a delay. Okay. All right. So we are live. Everyone, welcome to Breeder's Syndicate. I'm Matthew. I'm here with Thousandfold and Dan. So yeah, why am I hearing myself in the background? You probably got the actual YouTube thing open. Just mute it. I tried to mute it, but it wouldn't mute. Okay, there we go. So I'm not gonna look at the YouTube thing. I'm looking at the comments in here. We've got Thousandfold. We've got Dan. And yeah, today we're gonna do questions, questions and answers. We're gonna shoot the shit. Try to cover, I guess, season one through season nine. Any questions people have? We're gonna try to cover it as best I can with the people we have here. So start tossing in your questions, Thousand. You got anything you want to throw in from the beginning? I like that people are doing this already, but can I get everyone in the live chat to tell us where you are writing from? There you go. It can be as general as you want. It can be your country, it can be your region, whatever. Baltimore, home of the wire. Baltimore. How many people do we have? I have no clue. 73. Let me post, I'll make an announcement to the server. There you go. New Castle Australia. No, thank you. I feel set up. New York, locale, Long Beach, Sin City, upstate New York, South Dakota, H-town, South Houston, the dirty South Minnesota, New Mexico. Who else? We got Philly, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Toronto, Homer, Alaska, Tennessee, Shytown. This is quite a festival of people. Montana, Alabama, Maryland, Christ. We have one from Australia, two people from Australia. Yeah, just like you. Yeah, you're people. British unite. Yeah, just start shooting in any questions. That's what we're here for, right? I don't want to start as soft, Matt. Go ahead. Because I asked you the same question a while ago. Freezeblade wanted to know about the OG Bonnet crosses. What about them? I think you wanted to know what they were and maybe what your general feelings were about some of them. Hold on. You gave me the King Louie one. Tell me about that one. Okay, so that was the the Louie cut that resin had that he kept all those years and I mean it's just like typical what I would consider OG Kush, Southern California, OG Kush as we knew it in Southern California. I think that Louie's a good representation of that. I think like the same cut got passed as SFV, as Larry, as Tahoe, as all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean? Like just depending on where you were at. But this is the Louie cut. And yeah, I mean when I grow it, it's really it's more of the soapy, less sweet, piney, soapy piney territory or furniture polish. Yeah, furniture polish, piney. Was that one like super golf ball structure or did it stack up really well? No, no. It's super golf ball for me, especially that. But I think I think it can be grown in certain like tables and environments where you can get it to stack hard, you know, kind of like yeah. I think you can. I just never grew it that way. I was always growing in cocoa pots, drained of waste on the floor as big as possible, you know. But let's see, there was a master list I had the other day. I don't remember who asked me all the OG Bonnet crosses. Is that you 1000? It was me. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't keep it. And then you would just wouldn't stock for like 20 minutes. I was like, yeah, like five of them. So I'm going to see if I can name them. All right. So we have the SFV Bonnet. We have the Louis Bonnet. We have the Erlene Bonnet, which is the fake Irene blue bonnet. The fake Irene came from Cecil. It's some kind of Bubba OG hybrid. What else do we have in there? The Kush, the 92 OG, which a lot of people confused for the same cup, but they're totally different growing. We had this headband. We had motor breath. We have a motor breath 15 specifically. There's some more in there, isn't there? There's like 12 and I'm only up to seven. I don't remember. Did you say solo assassin? Oh, triangle solo assassin. And there's some more. There's a few more in there and I just can't remember them all off the top of my head. But yeah, the main reason I did it was because I had what's that? The resin. Yeah, that was the Kush. The main reason I did all those was because it was one of the first times I had had that many OG cuts. Oh, and the pure Kush too, to make it, to make a Canyon pure Kush. And if you count the Bubba's, which is the Katzoo, Shaw's Bubba in the pre-98, which Shaw's in the pre-98, I'm pretty sure of the same exact cut. Didn't always say nice tri-thousand. I'll remember that. You should have used a URL, Hyder. I messed up. We almost got him to come into chat, sneak him in without him knowing. But yeah, the reason I did it was because I had all the cuts at the same time and I wanted to see how each bread did the bonnet, especially because I was learning how the bonnet bread at the time. The main differences are going to be the lupus headband. That does take a more big, cola, almost sour-like structure. Oh, there was the, do they do that? Yeah, I did the 56-day headband that was in there too, which is another OG Kush. The triangle Giesel, Lube Bonnet was also in there. Yeah, it was just too much. I did too many, but a lot of them are very similar. You're going to run into similar expressions from all of them. But yeah, some OGs are just very different, like the lupus headband, the triangle. I can't stress this enough. A lot of people get here triangle and hear that it's a mom of OG, they'll grow the cut and get a hold of the cut and they'll be like, damn, this is not what I was expecting for OG because it's like fucking, it's poor, it's time. It's kind of mid-Z earthy compared to like the very terpy Kush cut. Right? So a lot of people are expecting that terpy pine salt stuff when they get triangle is just not that. So the triangle stuff will definitely take it in a different direction than the soapy pine salt stuff. It's more earthy, cushy. It's hard to explain, but yeah, it's not what you think. But yeah, I don't know. Should I cover more of that or less? We have so many questions. Okay, we take a break. Here's a breeding one. How do you decide which female to reverse when making feminized seeds with two different females? I don't make seeds with two different females. No, he means like if you want to do like a headband to an OG and they're both clone only, how do you decide which one you want to feminize onto the other? And my answer in short would be you try and reverse both of them, whichever is better. And if you can get seed off of doing both of them and compare, you know, it's always more data. It's a similar question to people asking like what do males pass versus females? And there isn't really like, yeah, a lot of people, people when they, when they ask you about reversals, they, they have this thing in their head where they think one, if you reverse it, it's going to be the dominant partner in the, in the hybrid, they have all kinds of, and there's just no set answer to any of that. It always depends. And if people are giving you set answers, then they're just bullshitting you. But like, let's say, let's say I'm going to do a reversal, I'm going to pollinate, let's, let's just say blueberry, random blueberry. And I have two different Bubba cuts, let's say, a catsu Bubba and the pre 98 Shaw's Bubba, right? Catsu's Bubba is a little bit different. It grows more asymmetrical type budge structures. It's much more purple passing. And I get a lot more coffee earthy from the catsu than I do the typical Bubba, which I can pull soapy, all kinds of stuff from it, because she soapy stuff. The reason I would choose one over the other is one possibly reverse as well and drops like pollen and we have more experience with it. Or I want the traits more from the catsu Bubba versus the pre 98. And that's just knowing your clones don't reverse any clones that you don't know, essentially, like, if you don't know about the clone in the first place, it's not going to do any good to reverse it and hit it to something, unless you're just playing, which is fine. But you're not breeding, because you don't even know what you're doing. You don't know what traits are going to pass. There's no predictive measures. There's no anything but playing. Yeah, I've actually had the pleasure of doing both sides of it. We're like, trying to remember the specific example. It had to be something with Skittles, you know, where I like cross Skittles to something and then cross that to reverse the other parent onto the Skittles, you know, and they are very different, you know, Skittles probably not the best example on that front. But like, I've seen it to where you get like, they're usually in the same ballpark, but you I've liked one better than the other before, you know, and like, or like one will have a higher prevalence of herms, something like that, you know, the Bubba examples, I was just laughing to myself, because I'm like, well, Bubba dumps if you just spit on it and like call it a bad girl, you know, that plant I've never had any trouble with. But I didn't know the like, expressional differences I've never like had. Mine have always just been Bubba when I've had them. And so I didn't know the coffee side of things was more leaning to the Katsu. I need to, I need to get me a cut of that Katsu now. Yeah, I don't even know if anybody kept it. I really don't. Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen it around. I just got 98 back, but it was kind of me. I don't know if I passed it to anyone. If anybody, because I passed all our OGs to Bitterer, I think he got some Bubba's via someone else I gave him to. But I don't think the Katsu made it out. Nobody really wanted it. Yeah. Mostly because dude's a fucking Dippy-Doo, whose name's attached to it. It's one of those things. Like you don't want to cosign someone who kind of sucks. But yeah, those really rich coffee expressions, though, were like some of my favorite old school. Yeah, it's nice. I just love Bubba period. I like the high. I like everything. Yeah. Whenever I grow pre-98, I kind of get more of like a fruity soapy thing. And so, and I don't really get much color and I like the color on that more purple cut. That was the one that would, they would both float around in Arcada when I was living up there, but the pre-98 and the green, more green expressions was more common. Yeah. Yeah, I just, but you can finish your thought, Matt. Just, but Katsu is probably a hybrid of Bubba. I just don't know with what and I doubt Katsu has any clue or Oregon kid, maybe White Rhino, if you would ask Oregon kid, it would probably be his first bet. But it's just one of those things where like, if I were choosing to breed with one Bubba over the other, I would take that in consideration to knowing it's a hybrid and get a breed, that there is potential to breed away from Bubba. You know. I wonder if that's what's in that one dude's coffee line with a K? Have you seen that? Oh, Kaya. Yeah. Kaya's coffee. I can't remember. I think it's like a Starfight or something. I can't remember. Yeah. We had a question for Farma Dan from Buckshot from a bit ago. It says, what cut of strawberry banana do you have? It's just the Crockett cut. Just, I'm not sure if it was their original selected clone, but they recently got it back in clone form. I saw it on their IG and it's like the spitting image of the exact clone that I recently received. And so it at least gives me some tier of like, well, I mean, like if it's something that they're going to end up working with, it probably at least has those hash and rosin qualities that that line is kind of known for. And so that's the reason I took it in. It was from a, God, I actually don't know where that came from. I think one of the, one of the people I worked with came back from an event with it. I had one for Matt. And by the way, you two, you see our comments, the chat thing, right? You can actually favorite comments. So if you see questions that you like, there's a star in the top right, you can tap. That doesn't, that doesn't like tag them. It just shows it for us. It's just for us. Yeah. I just pulled up a little tech stock, but so screw it in real quick. Kai's coffee is the alien og alien kush. So it's two swerve lines. Are those swerve? I thought those were those were us. Well, just to pay it, the alien kush f two. So that would be swerve and g is going to be, I mean, in fairness, ob and the original alien, who is not the alien selling seeds right now are two different people. Like, and obs was responsible for the alien tech and bringing that to the table. He never really passed it, but there were people popping up pretending they had the alien tech. I would probably say obs has more to do with alien tech, and I would avoid any swerve anything when it comes to alien. But I'd avoid swerve at all costs. I found his stuff more than I care to admit in the work that people in my position for the same company were before me. I like look through the documentation. I'm like, that's a swerve line. I'm like, oh, that's another bullshit artist. And I'm like, yeah, that's great. The good thing about him, though, is you know that he probably bought those seeds in bulk from a hopefully respectable person and just relabeled them. So hopefully it was still good, regardless. I met a dude who, I think it was in LA who told me that he used to work for him as a packager. And he's like, if we ran out of something and it was selling hot, and he's like, we throw anything in those vials. Oh yeah. Yeah, that sucks. But I definitely bought a bunch of his shit when I was like newer. Welcome local, by the way. Oh, local. What's up? I added him in. I totally forgot. How are those sour skittles hitting? I can't hear him. Can't hear him yet. We had a question for Matt from Screwston. What is Matt most excited about seeing in the Park Blue Dream reversal? Let me find the reversal list. Let me find the list. So I can read it off real quick. Yeah. Yeah, he's done some killer stuff. A lot of it we talked about up front, what he wanted to put in, and what he was going to do. So thankfully, I got some eyes in on that. And I would say that my, the one that I am most curious about is the Soul Assassin Cut 1. Definitely. I want to see how he did with that. Is it? There it is. So we have Old Betsy, Green Crack, Soul Assassin 1 OG, the P91S1 from Bitter, the Blue Garlic, Kim D, the Pure Cush, Shoreline, Dogshit, Appalachia Bay Dream, which I mean, yeah, it wasn't originally called that, but it is Appalachia Bay Dream, and Arcaded Trainwreck 2, the Blue Dream, which is reversed from the Blue Dream to the Trainwreck. And then there's some Blue Dream S1s. So I'm stoked to see Old Betsy, Green Crack. I've already seen what Green Crack and Blue Dream looked like combined, but I don't remember doing Blue Dream on the Green Crack. I did Green Crack on the Blue Dream. So I'm really stoked to see those. The P91, I'm partial, because I love those. Yeah, there's a ton of shit here at the Soul Assassin, though. I know that's one of his that he feels stoked about. What else do we got here? Feel free to put any questions in caps too. It makes it easier for me to see. I still have an old pack of OG Urkush S1s. Dude traded me off IC Mag back in 07. I have an old pack of regs of the OG Urkush. Let's see what we can do with those next year, I think. If they're still poppable, we will see. How do we feel about 2020 Mendo? Never heard of her. What else do we got? Bubba Sauer M10. Dr. Blaze. Never heard of him. Fuck Mary Kill. I'm always down to do Fuck Mary Kill on any three people, so if you guys want to throw up three people, I'll happily do that. I'm not sure that people will be stoked. I'm gonna start thinking about that right now. Your script will not be stoked to have me answer that, but I'll be happy to answer. Fuck Mary Kill Breeders Edition. Yep, I love that. I'm not gonna give you any good ones. None of them are gonna be cute. What did I grow outdoor this year? A lot of the creamy punch and ABC stuff. What did you see in those creamy punch, man? Because I don't know anything about that cream cut. Well, it's different than the cream cut. The cream line we had was the silver pearl blue bonnet. It's essentially like silver pearl looking plants with blueberry mixed with silver pearl turps. It's one of my favorite out of all of them. The creamy punch is that crossed to punchy bluster, which is the banana punch blue bonnet. So I thought I would be seeing a lot of grape sweet tarts, a lot of maybe some berry poking through, but because purple punches are dominant, I wasn't sure. And the silver pearl also dominates heavily. So I really wasn't sure which way it was going to go, but they all seem to be some version of the silver pearl with berry grape smarties, like just down the middle, and they all tend to be very resinous like the silver pearl. They do tend to be leafy outdoor, but I just haven't grown enough indoor to know. So I don't know, man. I suck at outdoor, so it's kind of hard to judge on outdoor. It was just something to run. I think Hippie was trying to bait you into talking about your outdoor grow. He said, what did what did Matt grow outdoors this year? Oh, yeah, I know you. Bring back the guys. That's an outdoor grow now, guys. Just remember that is now an outdoor grow. Did you do pots or in the ground? Pots, little tiny ones, like a fucking dummy. Yeah, they go in the ground. You'll like it'll be night and day, bro, especially with how hot it is there. Yeah, dude, it was stupid. I was trying to do outdoor indoor outdoor feeding with bottles and pop. Dude, if you're on the coast and in that fog band or just outside it, that shit is like in some ways the way to go, especially if you're fino hunting. But it's just when it's hot, like even like where I'm at, because I'm just like north, but kind of the same like band away from the coast. It's just so hard to get away with anything smaller than like a 35 to 50 gallon pot. Yeah. Mango puff from Gage, worth running. Fuck, no. These guys are fucking trash. All of them. They're always going to be trash. Bring back the fruit loops. It wasn't called fruit loops. It was called trick. And it was kind of weird when I was given those seeds originally by Moda Rebel, the Colombian gold. It was 10D crossed the Colombian gold. And when Moda Rebel gave me those, it was like 09, I want to say. And I didn't know who made them. They came from Moda. I was running them. They were really nice. They were obviously half Colombian gold, half KMD. It was a worked Colombian line. So I'm guessing the farmers choice Colombian, because I've grown those and it was very similar in terms and flowering time. Most of them were around 11 to 14 weeks, which was short for a Colombian. So again, that brought me to a worked line. Lupa later took credit for it. So I was just kind of assumed it was his, but I just never know with him. Yeah, I don't know if any of those seeds still pop anymore. I don't know who's running it. I think Denali ran it for a long time too. He might still have one. I genuinely don't know. But who knows? What else we got? I've started a few. All right, cool. Perfect. I think Indo wanted to know about the ABC stuff. Of course he do. It's only in the F1 right now. So with ABC, I'm actually growing subterfuge. I hate giving that guy any credit. He's an asshole, but it is what it is. It's a subterfuge. And I was growing that. I pollinated it with creamy punch, but in the F1s, you're not going to see any ABC type traits. So there's nothing going to be done with this first round. I was going to pass them off to some people if they wanted to run them just to see what it looks like. But there's not going to be any of the ABC trait. It'll probably be like terpenaline. It could be punch. I'm interested to take my own shot at breeding away from those obvious terpenaline-only terps from ABC. What can you tell me about Afghani cure? Would it be a good choice to work some CBD into a line? Yes, but again, it's only an F1. CBD is a breeding trait, so it needs to be taken further, tested, lock in the CBD trait, take it to F4. That's how you lock in CBD. It's a great place to start. It's going to be skunky CBD. Hard to beat that. Someone asked this, and I think I've asked you this before as well, Matt. Someone asked whether or not you've done Urkel Bonnet. I guess you were... No. I did Urkel Trey Dog Bonnet, so it was the Poodle Nuts, aka Dog Waltz from High and Lonesome. That was the closest I got, I think. Is the Durban poison cut all over Colorado and Kelly the Sandy Weinstein cut? I doubt it. Nobody can link anything back to Weinstein. Nobody can link anything back to Weinstein. I don't know anything about that. I just got my first Durban cut, and it's not like anything anyone has described it to me as, and I'm like, I don't know what the fuck this is. I'll have to send you some pics. Yeah, I'd be interested. But it's very terpenaline, but like more Jack terpenaline? I don't know. Like it's... Yeah, it might be just Durban. Yeah, I mean, I guess. Yeah, and it's like, it's got great resin, though. That sounds like Durban. Oh, really? Yeah, okay. And like kind of like odd, like a sem... Or like, I don't know. It's like, like a non-symmetrical weird bud shapes and stuff. Like... It could be. Yeah, I don't know. I'll send you some pics. I'll have to take some pics on like Monday or something, and I'll send them to you. Someone asked. Oh, go ahead. Oh, I was going to say there was one guy that asked if S1 seeds are better than F1s. Yes, that's the one I was just going to too. Yeah, yeah. What do you think? I'll let you answer that one. You go for that one. Fuck no. I literally have a picture, like I can post it on the water cooler, like the general chat on the Discord, where it's a S1 hybrid, side by side with one of my like male female F1s. And the vigor is between, like it's like, it goes down a step. So it's like an F1 hybrid. You got this nice, beautiful, vigorous seedling. The feminized hybrid, it's the same thing, but like three-quarter size. And then you see the S1 of like an OG specifically. And it is the dwarfiest little fuck of all time growing so slow. And like, even though they were fully developed seeds, like terrible germ rate, you know, like 50%. And so, yeah, no, F1s of regular male females are the way to go. I would agree. I like S1s, like anything, it's just different tools for different purposes. If you want something to breed more direct and narrow, then yeah, an S1 selection would be cool. But yeah, I mean, just they're two different things, completely different. Yeah, I believe on like one of Caleb's interviews, he was just like, S1s suck, as far as like their growing capability. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, I agree, man. Like they're kind of a pain to work with sometimes, but like the things you can find in them, you can't find anywhere else. Yes. And so like, I also love them. Sorry. Matt, do you still happen to have that immaculate photograph of the Skittles plant that you had, the very high definition prop that you had for the last episode? Oh, yeah, this guy. Oh, there's that. Yeah. That's a good prop. No, you had another prop. It was a diagram. Oh, you know what? No, that disappeared my drawing, but I can, you know what? You have to do another one, dude. It's fine. You can do another drawing. Oddly enough, I'm very fast at art and I'm re-talented. So while you guys are taking more questions, I will draw this for you real quick. There was one I saw like really early that I wrote on my notepad was, have you worked any CBD lines? And I have had the pleasure of working a ton of CBD lines. I was involved in people trying to make a ton of money on hemp seed and all that in the early days. And so I collected, I still have just like multi-pound baggies of so much hemp and CBD stuff. And I did a ton of stuff with Ringo's Gift, which is an awesome cut if you ever have the chance to get hybrids of that. They're really good. I would kind of, I'm trying to think who the better sources of that would be nowadays. But I got to work a bunch of that Willy G's, Lebanese stuff and a bunch of hybrids of that. That wasn't consistently high CBD, but there were some really cool plants in there. They're on my IG. Caleb wants to know about that one, I think. Which one? The last one you talked about, the Lebanese. Oh, the Willy G. Oh, dude, I have so much. I have like the pure direct, because I did some work with those guys. And so like I have so much of that if he ever wants any, like absolute fuck tons. I think he actually bought a bunch. Yeah, yeah. They would range from like three to 7% CBD and then an equal amount of THC in a lot of instances. There's a lot of one-to-one stuff in there, which is in my opinion, like more useful than like pure CBD stuff. Absolutely. And a lot of instances for the end consumer, but dead on. There's skinnels. Yeah. Yeah. And even this top bud right here, that's all, where is it? That one? It's all ugly? Yeah. A while back, we had a chat about like different LEDs on the general chat on the Discord. And I was talking about some lighting trials with these Gavita. They're like, I can't ever remember what the model number is, but it's the ones that look like, yeah, it's like the plasma style ones where it looks like a Gavita, like a standard HBS fixture kind of, or like the profile of it. And they're way up high. And it's just this little like, you know, 18 inch by 10 inch little fixture up top. But I recently saw some Skittles in Week 8, like a day ago, day and a half ago. And the expression of it was, I'd never seen it before. It was dark purple, like thoroughly, thoroughly dark purple. And the nose wasn't really there either. And so I was like, oh man, this is fucking really weird, man. But I liked it still. It was still good. It was just different. I thought that was an interesting little tidbit I'd share. Well, I showed that there was something else I just saw. What was it? Oh, I know what I was thinking. Gavita, I did hit up Gavita to see if they wanted to work with us on anything. And they actually said, no. Actually said, no, we're not interested in working with you. You guys are fucking lame. It's hilarious. One of these days, we'll get AC infinity and they can eat 10 dicks. No, we need to make an episode about the sponsorships that we don't get. I'm seeing some interesting questions here finally coming in. Yeah, I can't star them. So you guys have to all right. I can do it. There's one just recently won an auction of Mr. Nice for G13 IBL, genetically stabilized, but essentially an S1. What are your thoughts on its authenticity in general opinion? The only G13 S1s that I know of that made it over there were the ones that I sent Neville of the airborne G that I had made the S1s of airborne G13 S1s. And he used those in projects. Now I don't know if you ever gave any of those to Shanti, but there weren't so many seeds that there's like packs to sell. G13 died a long time ago. So I'm not sure how that would work. I have a lot of respect for Shanti a lot. And a lot of people still do. There has been some interesting stuff on Instagram lately that doesn't quite correlate with what we know in history or previous claims. And I just don't know if that's like just being tired after all these years getting asked a million questions and then eventually something's going to not correlate. But then there's things like showing a picture of Hacy that is obsolete, chosen male of something completely different. Like saying, hey, this is the Hacy male. And it's like, oh, wait, no, we're familiar with that picture. That was Opsoles male. Things like that, that do confuse. So while qualifying it with that, like I've used a lot of Mr. Nice stuff. I've enjoyed it. I didn't really love any of the Afghani based stuff. But with that said, one of the main things I chase is the Afghani, which is Dutch Afghani. So yeah, it's a hard one to answer because I just don't think he's as consistent as he used to be. But I don't know if that as far as with his answers I just don't know how that represents what he's selling. That's the nicest way I can say that. And someone asked, is it worth trying AG Seed Co or Scott Blakey, which is Shanti Baba, Mr. Nice, to bring in older lying to today's hybrids? I would dodge AG Seed Co. I would rather, I'm going to get myself in trouble. Yeah, that guy's a turd and a half. I think that's pretty evident. I don't even have to comment on that. But Mr. Nice, I mean, I know people popping mango haze from Mr. Nice last week. So I'd say that's just as good a place to start as any. I keep hearing there was at least two different lines, expressions of Durban. Yes, there's the Mel Frank Durban, which is supposed to be a more anteced, like black licorice smelling. That's a common trait at past. And then there's the Durban Cologne that circulates California, Colorado, and all that is very Trepinoline. The Trepinoline one seems to be the one that has spun the world or spun California. And what most people are familiar with as far as Durban right now, and which is not related to the F1 Durban by any stretch of the imagination. Hey, Matt, we had one on your most humidity resistant bonnet crosses. Yeah, that's bubbleberry for sure, I'd say. Yeah, for sure. The bubblegum breeds true for humidity, like humidity resistance, mold resistance, all that stuff. And it's proven itself outdoor. Be pretty awesome. Related question, Matt, but not exactly the same. Strains that would work near the equator. So tropics, equatorial strains. Like that's where, like if I live by the equator, that's where I would be like, I would be shopping over at quickseedskwikseeds.com, like the real seed code. I'd be running equatorial strains, because you cannot run those anywhere else to get the real expressions. So I would be taking advantage of that. Grow what works best for your area, not what's hype. And if there's anything that we've tried to push across these episodes, that's one of those things. A lot of people are growing based on what they've been told is dink. And the lines that they've, you know, that certain breeders are like, oh, this is the line, man. This is the clone only. This is the dink one. But a lot of times those lines suck in other environments. I think cookies mainly got popular because it's fucking easy to grow and everybody looks like a pro growing cookies because you could throw nitrogen at it all through flour, feed it like a tomato, and it looks fine. It'll smoke like shit, but it looks fine enough. And that's how all this shit's sold. So I don't know. So you probably shouldn't try to grow like bubbles by the equator. No, no, I had this discussion with someone tonight that was doing the Black Friday sell thing, and they had picked up some of the freebies of the Blue Res and Kush. And after they grabbed it right before they paid, they were like, hey, this is going to work great outdoors in New York. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't be running Kush outdoor in New York when it's all, you know, in the humid, in upstate New York, where it's all humid and foggy and or whatever it is, it's humid as shit. So I ended up sending him the bubbleberry direction because just because it doesn't make any sense to grow something that is likely going to mold or get botrytis. Yes, here's a good one. Any information on the F1 derb that CSI used? Pictures, where he got anything? I grabbed quite a few crosses of it. So I sourced the F1 derb. That was, that was my sourcing. I had had the cut originally, and none of the crosses really sold of it. So we tossed it. But over the years, I wanted to do more than just one run with it and make seeds. I wanted to check out more of what it was about. Frostboss to Stoney to me is how the F1 derb made its way back. Frostboss was a part of the original cookie crew. Stoney no longer with us, rest in peace, and then to me. Or I'm sorry, Stoney to CSI sourced by me because I wasn't growing at the time and I was moving. So I had to go straight over to CSI. I have pictures of it. We can't show pictures on here because YouTube just screws us anytime we show pictures of weed because they suck. But there are pictures in our codecs that you can find to the F1 derb. And there's an entry about it in there, more info about it. So go to our codecs.thebreedersyndicate.com and type in F1 derb, and it'll pop up. You can see pictures and info, I think video too. Maybe not video, pictures. The link is in the description. Link's in the description. I don't know why I repeated that. They can hear you just lying. Which HP13 did you get sent? Let's see, show. Oh, that's how you do that. Which HP13 did you get? He sent me the ZHP13. Oh, you asked someone else, not me, never mind. People, the most common question we get about HP13 is if it's related to G13. And it is not related to G13. It's not the same as G13 hash plant. It's an old Hawaiian cut. And essentially the story goes is just a selection of hash plant, number 13, the 13th selection of hash plant. Then CC hash plant, which is hash plant, north lights one. That's supposed to be what it is. And maybe it is, I think so, probably. I have no reason to doubt that. But people see G13 HP and automatically assume that's the same thing. And it is not the same thing, not even close. Granted, they both have hash plant in them, but G13 makes HP13 very different. Yeah, you'd be surprised how much in big companies' documentation and stuff, how much the original names, like HP13, and those little short acronyms like that, still persist. At our place, we have tons of them, so fucking many of them. And they're the real names of what we call a lot of cuts that people would know. Yeah. HP13, too, we have a lot of different names. HP13, too, was one that I hunted for years and years and years. And because at the during the time, I don't talk about this a lot. I mean, maybe I do some when I was one of the few people in the United States making fem seeds. What happened was a lot of other quote unquote preters and clone traders locked me out of cuts because they were scared I would make S1s of every single cut, which I wasn't doing. But they were very scared of that, and they didn't want to leave that potential there. So HP13 was one of those cuts that I was locked out of because they didn't want HP13 S1s at the time going around. So I tried for years to get that cut, and then eventually we sourced it. But it was very hyped. And it was one of those cuts that once I got it, I was like, oh, this is what I was hunting. That's weird, because I probably wouldn't have hunted that. You know, I don't really like hash plant myself. Some people do. Someone said, man, is Willie Nelson. What's that? Someone said, reefer man is Willie Nelson. I know. He had a he had a strain called Willie Nelson. And it wasn't it wasn't made by him. It was made by Sea Ray or Scabby from white buffalo seeds. They're the ones who actually made it. And they were working for reefer man and sold it through him. It was a Vietnamese black something. I can't remember the other half, but it was dank, man. And most of the good stuff that came from reefer man was made by other people. So that's just how it goes. That's what I got in the when you sent out old seeds with the GA3. You sent me Willie Nelson F2s. Oh, you're the one who got those. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good line. I don't need to do that whole experiment. I've just been busy as you guys know. Yeah. How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? How dare I? Like the weed. They cracked down on that. And also, Matt sent so many seeds out that he doesn't he doesn't remember who's landed with who. Yeah. I don't know. I don't fucking know. I don't know if any cuts are circulated. I haven't seen Willie Nelson. But that's like a Canadian thing. I'm sure if there are, there's cuts up there. Chick Montreal and all those dudes. What else do I have starred here? Describe the HP13. I'm assuming they mean growth characteristics and turf profile. Last time I saw it, it was apples and feet growth. It grows like a short squat. I mean, it's not, I would, I would ask CSI better because the grow I smoked of it was not very good at all. And I just smelled apples and feet. I'm not a big fan of those apple aromas, honestly. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not into it. You smell like apples and feet. I do it. I just didn't like it. And it says even the sweet ones like that come out of like the apples and bananas type shit. Like I'm just an apple fritter. Like all those I've grown once and I've just been like, ugh. Yeah, I can see that. Oh, there was this one that I put up. Running Peaberry and found a killer smelling male. Blueberry muffins. Can you talk about your working blue bonnet male selection? I've gone over it a lot. I don't know. Do people want to hear that again? Did I go over that again? Do it. All right. So the blue bonnet male was a, is basically a four year project? I mean, it's still kind of going. So it is not even over. But to get to the point of where I was actually selling seeds, it had been three years. And I went through the process of running every single blue line I could get my hands on. I wanted to see every expression of blue learn everything about it I could. And also with the idea of finding a breeding male and female to select with. And that's why it was just that the blue bonnet, like it already had a renowned reputation of being an amazing blue line. Like when I released my original riot berry stuff, it was the line that was competing with mine. And everybody would say, oh, you got blueberry. I know Lone Star's got a good blueberry too. And I'd be like, oh, fuck him. My blueberry's better. Well, eventually I ran out all that stock, sold all that stock, stopped working with blueberry and then wanted to work with it again. And that's when I was able to source old blue bonnet stock from Bodie. He had some in his collection and sent it to me. And the male, the most specific thing I remember when going through all this stuff, the male had the traits in blueberry that I look for when I want to look for a blue breeding male. Which I don't really care to share because it'll give JD and all those idiots a major leg up and they should already know. But the one trait that did stand out to me was that the, it was praying nonstop. And it's not just praying out of health. Every single leaf, I mean, this is like a six foot male from the top to bottom family was like this angle, all of them from top to bottom. So it almost looked like he was waving, like raising his hands and shit. And I really wasn't sure even when I used him up until when he blew pollen that he was going to be who I wanted. I was very, very convinced I was going to have to do this round, run through that, it might not be it, go back, select another male, do another round. And I was happy to do that. But the first instance where I felt like I had gone the right direction was when the male was blowing his pollen everywhere. When I finally went in, shook him, hit the fan and I had on a big, like one of those gas masks where it covers your whole face in a shield that's got the big cans, like one of those expensive ones. I was wearing that because I'm super allergic to pollen and this was all indoor. And through that mask and this mask, like you're, you can wear it like cleaning up feces and shit. And it's not the smell doesn't penetrate too much, but I could smell heavy blueberry, blueberry jam type smells just by smacking the male around. And that's when I was like, got this motherfucker. That's the one. I knew it. But even then you don't really know, no, because just because it expresses blue and berry, doesn't mean it's going to breed true for that trait, right? Like it could just show up sometimes. It could be the one in a thousand that showed this trait. And when you breed with it, it's only going to show it one in 500, you know, I got very lucky. And that's, that's pretty much the story of it. I mean, it's just the best blueberry breeder I've ever seen. And I didn't have anything to do with creating it or making it or no. I don't have any responsibility for why it was such a good line. But it ended up being a great line. Matt, I'm glad you told the story again because I was just thinking about, you know, if I run some of your blueberry in cross and kind of like blind, sort of blind select a male, you know, this is the story kind of reminds me about like what I should be looking out for or thinking about it anyway. Well, like if you're selecting towards blueberry, the first trait that I look for right on your mind, because I mean, it's just, it is one of those things. It's, it's purple striped stocks. You don't want a full purple stock. You want to see stripes in the stock and it not be, and you have to know how to feed because you can, you can get this from all kinds of deficiencies, you know, it has to be genetic. And it has to look a certain way. And the purple striped stocks, they've just always been that tell, tell for me to when I know, okay, that's a berry line. That's a berry line. And I also learned that going towards the more narrow leaf berry expressions like the old-time moonshine, the blue moonshine, the banaluna, blue satellite to a degree, rocket, moonshine rocket fuel, things like that. The more narrow leaf, the blueberry is in there, but it's more recessive in there. It's harder to get to and harder to breed true. The Afghani in blueberry is what through the blueberry originally. I had been chasing blueberry sativa stuff to find the blueberry. I noticed when I popped the blue bonnet, it was all Afghani looking and I was really, really thinking, oh no, I'm not going to find it in here, except that I just went with my gut and realized, oh my God, I should have been chasing Afghani all along. He's just, I like, I like more narrow leaf type highs, but in the end, it had the high that I wanted regardless of the taxonomy of the leaves. Hopefully that helps. No, I mean, this whole little tangent has kind of reminded me of when I was looking through like some of my private gelato work that I did a few years ago. I think I've told you about it. I did like an ICC mac wedding cake and my idea was to call it end game because I was never going to breed with this shit again and then I got the job that I currently have. You know? You know what I mean? But what's funny is I actually recently popped those at work too. And so, because it's like, it's a really nice like gelato cookie baseline, it's like that. And anyway, the whole thing just reminded me of how I found that male. And so like a buddy had given me two packs. It was like him and another dude that we were friends with up in the triangle made the mac wedding cake. And then they, my buddy crossed it to the ICC cut that I gave him and then he gave me two packs of that, right? And so I'm going through it and I find this, most of the males just look like normal weed plants, but I find this one thing that's just like this cousin it. You know what I mean? Like super nodey, just like the shortest inter node I've ever seen on like any male plant ever. You know what I mean? Like on average, less than one inch, you know? And it was just like draped with leaves. And so we called it cousin it, you know, like from the Adam and family because it's just like covered. And it would droop all the time because it was in like a 10 gallon pot and I had to water it like three times a day. Yeah, I get it. It was just beastly, you know what I mean? And like I knew it's just one of those things you know is just like that's what I want. You know what I mean? And so far everything I've crossed it with has been like pretty fucking amazing. And I've been getting a lot of feedback from, I got especially one, the one that I crossed into my key lime work was just like this killer super stacked version of key lime, you know? And this dude down in Houston found it and I was just like, holy shit, that's amazing. You know what I mean? And so like sometimes with males you just know and then other times you have to like, like I wasn't very intimate with that line but it just like is that gut instinct of the breeder. Sometimes you've got to roll with it, you know? And then other times you know your line super, super well and you're just like, I know this exact trait to look for and there's like two sides of that coin, you know? Absolutely. That's a part of like what we talk about just learning your clones, you know? You run them enough, you'll get to see them expressed differently in the same room, you know? If you run them with different mediums, different nutrients, feed it a little different and being able to see all those different expressions gives you ideas for how it's going to breed later on. Yeah, for sure. Just as a little admin note, I'll just mention that local is having some technical issues with his microphone. And hopefully he will be on with us soon. He has tested the difficulties everywhere he goes. Does Adobo hit way too hard and 90 can't figure out his headset? Is he trying to talk again? He's like, I can't even touch it back. He is. Yeah, we can't hear you. I do have one note for everyone. So a lot of you know, like I have a buddy named Matalie who used to own Elite Cannabis with some of his other friends. And he did some of the best chem breeding I've ever seen. Like as far as regular seed breeding, I don't know that anybody's done better Chem91, Chemdog breeding than him. And it's taken me years to convince him, but he's going to send in some seeds finally for the site, for the store. So keep your eyes peeled. I don't heavily vouch for a lot of other people's stuff very often anymore. Main reason Mat doesn't sell seeds because he hates seed drumming. He would much rather not deal with it. So I had to beg him to do it. But yeah, I'm pretty stoked on it. I'm very stoked on it. I've run a lot of the D.I. netting by work from other people. And I just, he knew the Chem so well. Like I sourced a lot of my best cuts for Mat. Like after Mooney killed my whole collection, Mat was one of the first people to line up and be like, Hey dude, what do you need? What can I get you back? Can I get you back triangle? Can I get you back headband? Can I get you back day record? Can I get you? He was where all that second round of stuff came from. So I owe Mat a huge debt of gratitude. His sourcing of cuts has always been phenomenal. I've never had anything be like, I don't know if that's the right cut, bro. Like he's always had it get on. So I'm stoked for it. Can you guys hear me now, by the way? Hey, there you are. Hey, welcome. Yeah. I just had to take my headset off. I think that's what it was. You're not getting any background. You're good. Word. Okay. That's what I was worried about, mainly. Dude, this word does it to me constantly when I'm trying to game with people and I just have to like reset everything. And I'm just like, this is so fucking dumb. Like there's nothing to fix. It's just like literally like taking it off the setting it was on and then putting it back onto the same exact setting. And it's like, oh, it fucking works now. Someone said money mic for the win. Shout out money mic for the Kim D or the I-95 work. I saw money mic the other day on, in a private forum. So it was good to see him back too. And then he's back fucking hanging out, shooting the shit. That guy's awesome. I met him in person too. Super kind, super, super generous. So yeah, not a bad word at all to say about him. I-95 is some fire. It's fire. His street fire. I thought it was just going to be a polyhybrid mess, but it wasn't. It's, it's legit. It's very legit. Yeah, I'm pretty excited to see that 56-day hybrid with that D-I-95. It's looking really nice now. Squatter OG, if you help me out. Yeah, totally. It stacks really nice too, from what it's seeming. The nodes aren't too smart like you'd expect OG to be. So that's pretty exciting, I guess. Hey, local. We had a, we had a specific question for you from Jabs earlier. Wanted to know about your experience with weird variegation that shows up in Super Scott lines, and how he thinks it's related to feeding. Matt, you probably weigh in as well. Go ahead. I don't know. I've seen a few things get rid of it. I don't believe in CalMag, but I find that bumping your calcium levels a little bit up and your magnesium up as well tend to get rid of that. But I've also started looking at it in the way of what ions are responsible for chlorophyll production. And so that's things like calcium, I think, magnesium, iron, some other micros. So they kind of seem to like those things a little more. But I mean, it doesn't get rid of it permanently. LEDs have made it worse, in my opinion. But that's really kind of the only thing is just kind of bump up the secondaries and micros really. Yeah, I've noticed the same exact thing, and that all those kind of super skunk type lines like sour hybrids and stuff like that, they all are just like pretty naturally heavy feeders too. So if you're a low and slow guy, it might be time to bump it up. I'm dealing with it right now. I have some blue dream work and some sour gorilla glue in the same tent and they want absolutely different things. And so I have to mix up two different fucking buckets every single time because the blueberry stuff doesn't want and the blue dream stuff, it's not like a super high nitro feeder. Yeah, definitely. Blueberry hates nitrogen. Yeah. Someone asked about, hold on, let me cover this real quick because this is something I feel like in the past, 10 or nine seasons that hasn't been covered accurately. And I'll fix that right now. Let's talk headband. Let's talk headband because every time I talked about it, I got shut up. Headband, as it started, as best we understand was diesel two in New York. That's from the Sour Crew, the hour chem bag seeds as it was originally labeled, became labeled added an S, sour chem, because they didn't have the term diesel applied to chem yet. That came later. As the cut made its way to California, as best I understand or the OG cut made it to New York. I can't remember which way it went. I think OG went to New York and the person that brought it out there gave the stipulation, you cannot call this OG, so they renamed it headband. That's why there's more than one headband. But it only got more complicated after that. There's been so many seed lines called headband. There are so many posers right now that have only been growing less than five years with headband and their names stuck to it. It is stupid. It is stupid. There's two types of headbands. There's the chem E diesel headband, and then there's the OG Kush headband. If it's a sour OG, it's not headband. That's a later headband. That's not a good definition for headband, a sour OG hybrid. I don't know how to say it any clearer. The people stacking their names with headband are all idiots. Stop following that shit. None of those are headbands. Stop it. Stop asking questions about it. If it's not a pure OG cut, it's not the headband, which the 56 day headband is a pure OG cut. Makes sense. That story stayed with it. The diesel number two, I don't know that anybody has that alive. So, I would say that the OG, the 56 day headband is probably the best representation of that, and that anything that is otherwise doesn't have great stories or provenance leading back to it. And that's where I'll leave it. It's just, I feel like our show helped push a narrative for a while, that there was one legit sour, one legit headband cut, and I didn't agree. But I don't like to undermine people at the same time, and I don't think that that story was necessarily pushed with that intention, but over time it just seemed to develop. So, I just, whatever. The LA Kush headband came from Mandelbrot. It should never have been called LA Kush. It's not a Kush. It wasn't from LA. It should never have been called headband. But that's what Mandel Crotch called it, because that's who he is. And he's no longer with us, so we can't ask him why he renamed it. Renamed it. It's an excellent diesel type. With that said, there's no provenance to it being headband. Reserve a Provada headband. Again, much later. That was a later seedline. No purpose in even discussing it. Same with Callie Connection's headband. That's all sour OG types or whatever he was selling as sour OG at the time. Just stop with it. Stop. There's no... I mean, I love Skontex. That's one of my boys, but his headband is not going to be the original headband. He came in way late to the game to know what's what there. I love that dude. And yeah, it's just kind of one of those things. People stick people's names next to stuff. And it's like, oh, that's the one. And then people start hyping, oh, do you hear that's the one? That's the one. It's like, dude, we know what the ones are and what they aren't. It's been all... Like, people are still asking, like, savage headband, apothecary. I've already said it. No. None of that shit's headband. Stop. The answer is no, bro. You know. I'm fucking dying here, muted. Really? You're going to keep asking? Jesus Christ. That was the answer. Mandelbrot also kind of a junkie vibe. Yes, that's why the cops went to his house and, you know, get hot. Yeah. I have pretty decent access to a lot of cuts through my job. And there are no decent... Or there's actually just no any headband cuts floating around the larger scene and the commercial scene at all. And like, people want them and they're just not there. Like, there's AJ Sauer and that's as close as you can get to any of that stuff. And it's not that close. So, you know, I think they're just being privately held. It's just... It's confusing because the same group that named it headband also got an OG cut and then named that headband, too. And it was distributed more than the original headband was. And because it came from that crew, everybody assumed that that must be the cam headband, whereas it's just not the case. I think legitimately, if the diesel never too left that crew, or, you know what I mean, like that selection that was called headband, if it really didn't last the test of time, then legitimately the 56 days probably. Yeah. What's called... Didn't one of those dudes pop seeds once he came out to LA, too? I don't know who was out in LA. I think it was... I can't remember what I'm thinking of, but it was a story I've heard from you on the show. But I was like that one of those dudes that was originally in there moved out to LA after all that, and then popped seeds. But that kind of is where the story just capped and ended. I think that's where it fell down because the cut came from LA to New York. And I think it was one of the ones at Notso would repeat a lot. Yeah, maybe that's... The cut came from LA to New York and it was Mojave that sent the cut out there or brought it out there. And he was in LA, and somehow the story got confabulated to where OG, there was people murdered, all kinds of dumbass shit. So, yeah. It was very confabulated, but lately, within the past month, we've had all of them come out on my profile during a discussion of headband and lay it out. Granted, it's not easy to pick apart in some ways, but we got to pick apart. That pre-61 cut packed. There is the Denali headband. That is the only legit one. That's that check. So, is HSC's headband of A. Jesus Christ? Who the fuck is HSC? Humble Seacoat. Like, it doesn't matter how many times I say, like, bro, stop. I can't. I can't. Did I say that? Yeah, they're one of the biggest, they're one of the biggest brands right now. So, if you are new, like, you've seen marketing and you probably think they're huge. Yeah, well, the main thing is they're one of the only seeds you can buy in dispensaries. That's true. Yeah. That's a huge thing that they did. Well, no, I mean, they just like put that legwork in, too. You know what I mean? To get the state license on a small little farm. Oh, yeah, I guess on that. You know what I mean? There's like a game side to all of that. But like, the main thing was, is that most people's sales were like nationwide. Why would they sign up for state licensing? Because that limits you to exclusive state sales. You know what I mean? Besides like, backdooring and white labeling stuff, and so like, in some ways, I can respect the hustle, but like, I also have like, more intimate knowledge on that stuff. I still don't like that they stole my blueberry muffin name and slapped it on their bullshit that wasn't blueberry. I did not like that. That cut the dark heart license. The cut the dark heart license, like, I've never liked it. Like, I was like around for that. You know what I mean? As far as like up there in the community, like a new people that worked with them and like did work with them. It's just, I never liked that specific selection very much at all. And I don't know why it got circulated so widely. And I think it's just because nothing blueberry had been really widely circulated for a while. But I think that it's like that blueberry muffin, because it does smell exactly like baked blueberry muffins or like the hostess little mini blueberry muffin kind of deals, you know what I mean? But I think that's like, that's like C tier blueberry turfs. Yeah, it's not good. I want blueberry scissor. I got really mad mostly because we had spent six years prior to that building up a blueberry muffin cut, like sharing pictures. It was the most used picture of blueberry and stolen picture of blueberry ever. And then they popped up, used the marketing from that and the steam from that, took it for themselves, sold the cut to Dark Heart and it was just like, well, there goes that and all the fucking, that's when I, that's really when I stopped trying to work on advertising and marketing of any one strain or put any kind of effort. So I realized, oh, the first one to do it doesn't matter. It's the one with the most money in the marketing. That's what matters. And that's when I realized, maybe I don't even get mad about this shit anymore. Plus their marketing is pretty appealing. No, man, that's the whole thing. Is it like, if you can, if you can do decent marketing, you can sell a lot of seed. It's all about just like people knowing who you are, because there's a much wider market for people that just want to like, they're like, oh, I do smoke weed, but like, what's up with the seed thing? You know what I mean? And like bringing new people in. And I feel like especially in like California, they're in Oregon, they're like probably the first seed company that most people first getting into growing in the last five years have kind of come across. And they have some decent stuff. Like I found some decent stuff in there. But that was from like their original stuff before they made it big. You know, like I used to buy some of their seeds at a HPRC in Arcada. They've been around a long time. That was the other hard part. Like taking, because they popped up. I had no interaction with them. I don't go up to Humboldt and hang out in Humboldt and not like a mountain dude. And they popped up on the main scene. Oh, you are. I am trash. And they popped up on the main seed scene. Like they were nobody to me because they weren't involved in the whole breeding community worldwide. They weren't selling seeds worldwide. They weren't a major seed mover at the time. So I was just like, who the hell are these people showing up and just taking the name? I thought they were nobody's from nowhere. You know, they had been around for a long time up in Humboldt just much more small time than I was. But they quickly became big time. Yeah, for sure. No, they're their farm is deep too. Yeah, right. It's fucking out there, bro. Like I do a lot of white link here, bro. They buy a lot of seeds and repackage them. Like that's that's the name. That is exactly what they do now. They're seeing. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they bought in my seeds. Yeah. Right. Like, I mean, that's where it ends up. White label seeds. You stop making your own seeds because there's probably more money in that. You know, realistically. No, the business acumen and the business side is there, but it's like the more intimate knowledge I have with the practices. I'm like, nah, just big fat. Nah, like that's not how you do it. Someone is an interesting one. Here you go. You can answer this one, Dan. Anybody know what the longest flower time is being used in the commercial industry? I'm hearing everything gets taken at eight to nine weeks regardless of fully ripe. Anyone doing 10 to 12 plus week? No. So what we do, you're like kind of right. I wouldn't say eight is standard at all. I'd say it's more nine to 10. And really, like on average, just nine. Like people pick 56 to 63 day stuff. But like Skittles and Skittles hybrids are the only thing that I take it eight weeks. And what we actually do is we stagger to where Skittles goes into the room late. So that way it's all getting harvested at the same time because that's actually way easier to manage. Then harvesting something separate. But we do have longer flowering stuff, but normally what you do is you try and cross that to something that's more normal flowering, something usually gelato-based because it'll also bulk it up. And so I have some stuff that started as like 13, 14 week flowering stuff. And within one or two breeding cycles, we've brought that down to nine to 10 weeks. And it still throws down just like two X yields of Sativa size bats. Like I have some pictures that would blow your minds of some Sativa type stuff. Actually, I was just saw that Cornbread Ricky had posted about his legends of Nigeria. That cut is, that line is fucking sick. Like I've worked it and it's really fucking cool. And it throws down just like 30 plus percent THC. Turpinoline dominant Sativa bats. And so I've had a lot of fun with that line and it is a S tier smoke. S tier, is that good or bad? Best. Best tier. Yeah. No, S is like, S A B C. Like, you know, I don't know why that is. It's a gaming thing. It's where I heard it first. Local. Thousand. Other youths. What? What was the question? I don't know. It's like an anime thing. So I think, uh, is it an anime thing originally? Yeah. I remember it like an anime game called the like fighting games. Oh, yeah. That's it. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cookies for weeks. The gun speaks and it's true. To be fair, I actually, like, it just makes me think of like harvesting something in a non-average window, like seven to eight weeks, even though it is a nine-week strain based on hash processing, oil extraction, all of that kind of stuff. Yeah. Or just like bumping up tests. I've recently seen it where a like 29% THC really like, that's like kind of the higher end of what I like usually will expect out of a commercial hybrid. And then you take it at week seven for hash and you test the flour and it tests at 39% THC. You know. And like 48% total cannabinoids. And I'm like, but it's just because the flour mass is not developed. And so it's technically true, you know what I mean? And then you see the same thing from a standard pole versus an early pole. And it's like, it's so much more filled out. Like I was just looking at samples today that was like something harvested 14 days before the other. And like the same clone and like the difference of it is like, you wouldn't expect it to be that much mass in size, but it's genuinely like the three-quarter version of the other one and half is dense. Yeah. So here's one. Here you guys can answer this one. But if you consider being interviewed on someone else's podcast. I mean, like maybe, but no, like, I mean, I just like know my boys and know my crew and like know what I can and can't say. And the whole thing with like the cultural norms, like I at least trying to keep it, even though it's not like very standard anymore is that it's just like, it's hard to know what you can say around what people in this industry. And yeah, I kind of like listed like me, bro. Yeah. Or just like, I don't want to like out myself in some stupid way or like, you know what I mean? Like I've signed paperwork and shit. So for me, it's a no. That's going to be a no dog. No, I'm just kidding. Um, I've done them, but like I'm pretty picky. Like if someone interviews a bunch of fucking lanes and scammers and then it's like, hey, you want to come on my I won't do it. Just because I don't want to be associated with the same group of shitheads. That's been the biggest problem. But you know, I mean, like that's just my anal way that I am, you know, I these guys are more than welcome to be on any podcast. I think it'd be good. I don't I don't see any context in which it would make sense for me to be interviewed. So yeah, I mean, I think the same thing with me. I would also make it a safe. And I haven't already said same. Yeah, just one of those things. I did. There aren't many podcasts like other than like booze podcast, Matt booze. Yeah, there's so few that I would even be interested in doing. You know, I never heard that booze has a wait, booze has a podcast. Yes, I did. Oh, he did. Oh, I'm not sure. I can give you a bit of context. Yeah. So he he started one. I think they they have a few episodes, but he got really busy. And then the idea was that he would actually join forces with us essentially, but he's still really busy. So we're just kind of waiting for him to like for his life to give him a break. Yeah, I feel you on that booze. Are we stolen? But yeah, I don't know. I mean, like I did the podcast. Most people know that, but I wasn't necessarily super. Joe, I can tell you a story about that. It just piques my memory there. I was I was moving away from Eugene, Oregon, and I'm driving out to fucking Oklahoma. And so like, I didn't know a lot of weed podcasts yet, but I like downloaded a fuck ton of episodes of the podcast. And that was the first time I had come across you. And so this is 2020. And anyway, I just remember listening to it. And I'm like driving through the Cascade Mountains on day one. And I'm just like listening to you to talk so much fucking shit about everyone in the industry. And I was like, this is my guy. He's saying everything that I think when I'm scrolling through IG, motherfucker, this is my dude. And so like, yeah, that's just funny how it all works around and that in these weird ways in life, you know what I mean? But it's just like, I hear you on a podcast. I knew we'd be friends. And then like years down the line, it's just like, yo, what's up, Doug? And then we ended up fucking him. So weird. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, it's so crazy. And now I know what you're asking. I was like, yeah, I don't know. You know, like I never re listened to my podcast episodes. So I don't even remember what I said, but I just know how I am. And if people ask me certain questions, there's no doubt that I'm going to say something fucked up. Bro, I listened to, I re listened to my first one. I was just like, I don't want to get fired. So like, what did I actually say? That'd be a good idea, right? I have to screen myself and it's too late, even if I did, you know. Yeah, yeah. I think it's also just like, it's hard because podcasts, like, for example, with the podcast, he interviewed some like legitimate people at the beginning. And I was okay to be with a part of that. But like after me, like, you know, interviewing straight up scammers, straight up liars, tweakers, just like, and then people start saying, oh, you were on that show, same show. You're friends with that guy. You must be if he interviewed you, you must be friends with the other people. And that people really make those associations. And like, I hadn't forethought that. I hadn't thought about that in advance. And that's when I started to be more protective about what shows I went on. And some people take it fucking sideways when I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that show. You interviewed too many scammers. Like, and that's not what they want to hear, right? You know, nobody wants to hear that. And I'm an asshole for it, but it just is what it is. I don't want to have my name next to what's happening. Yeah, there's, oh, shut up, Steve Long. That's my UFO buddy. He's the UFO master. I'm just like sitting here reading the chat and like outside the blocks. It's like, yeah, it sucks that we can't have real conversations for like fear of consequences. And it's a, but it's, it's really true. Like there's some things that I will 100% say to the discord or unlike certain groupings of people within the discord that I would never say on the show. For sure. You know what I mean? And then there's other things that like, and it just goes down the line like that. It's like, what I say on Instagram is like by far the most like, like, you know, cultivated and marketed way of saying it, you know, possible, but it's just like, I don't know, join the discord, you'll learn some shit. Yeah, I guess I'm more open there too. Like I used to be just all out unfiltered, whatever, but even on Instagram over time, I'm like, it alienates me from friends who happened to not be as stringent with who they led around them. Like a lot of friends that I have are friends with shit bags. And when I say something publicly, that shit bag goes in bitches to this person. You know, so it causes a lot of problems. And then, then, you know, just straight up, people will snitch on you. They'll call the cops on you, have your house on it. Do wild shit just because you're interfering with their scammy money. So yeah, let's see. Do any of you, oh, here's a good one. Any of you accidentally breed out traits that you didn't want to lose, what would you do about that? That's when you start over and always keep your, you keep each generation and some seed from each, so you can go back and try to correct that. That's really all you can do. If you lose a, lose, lose a trait, there's no going forward to get it back most of the time. It's gone. So the only way to do it is to go backwards. Yeah, yep. And it really sucks because a lot of times, it's like everything in life. The things that you really wish you can go back to are like just out of reach. You're like, oh, fuck, I didn't save that one generation or I didn't save that oldest one, you know? For example, my, my reyaberry, that was my favorite blueberry line, but there was a lot of stuff with it that I didn't like, which is why another reason they didn't just go back, ask some friends for old stock and do, work it from that generation. It was missing resin production and it was missing recreational potency. No matter what I did, I could not bring up resin production and I could not bring up recreational potency without losing the blueberry terps, the extreme berry terps. And because I didn't keep all those seeds for myself or previous generations, it's not like I could just go, oh, I'll just go back and pop this. I sold them all, you know, because people wanted them at the time. I was like, okay, I'll sell them all. Someone else can take it further. And that's one of those cases where I had to go do the hard thing and start from scratch again. Yeah, my key line work, I don't have any of the original steps anymore. I've popped them all because I've like, you know what I mean, you work something for a year or two and then you kind of drop it and move on to something else and I just never kept any of those intermediates. I've used up all the other stuff, like the back stock and the BX1s and things like that. And so I'm just like, it's gone. Yeah, sometimes that's just how it goes, you know. What was the first blue bonnet hybrid you tried? That's a good question. The first one to come down that wasn't seated, I want to say it was the blue side, was the first one I went for, which was the fake Irene crossed a blue bonnet. That's got to be the first one. And I was stoked because it was so berry, you know, like I was like, got it, nailed it, you know, first thing, first thing I'm harvested. But by that time, the whole room smelled berry, so I already knew that. That was the first time I realized that there was recreational potency, too, and extreme resin production, which was missing from the other ones. Yeah, you know, with the Discord, there's always going to be some concerns like this, you know, like I'm in Prohibitionland, whatever, I'm hesitant to do that. I do do my best to keep that in mind because a lot of people in the Discord are from Prohibition places. And that's why there is such heavy safety in there and we try to keep it very, very tight. Even with there, there are some people in there that seem to be nice, but could be a liability to other people in there with how they behave. We make that decision to remove them. And it's just the way it goes because we give a shit about everybody's safety. That's important. And first and foremost, you know. I'm sorry, Bitter's comment is just too good. Bitter is the problem, yes. Why don't you play Countin' Address, bro? Yeah, no, there's a lot of people, like you can still chat and be coy and people understand too on the Discord. You know, especially when you're first getting acquainted, like I think I lurked for about a year on the Discord before I really started DMing and reaching out to people. And I'd been listening to the show for like a year before that, you know. And so there's no like, oh, this is a good one. Yeah, I mean, we've done a show on Ohio. We've actually done a show on Ohio weed history with Pip's weed. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. Covered a lot of it there because he's I don't have any direct. He's our boots on the ground, Ohio dude, and he's very, very into history. So we went over the cuts that he had, because most of them are in the Ohio legend. I have to say that I have met a fuck ton of people from Ohio and Humboldt. There's so many people from Ohio and New York and Humboldt and a little quick tangent. Like we ran a barber shop that someone sold their weed farm and like bought a barber shop for, and it's called the trim scene. It was sick as fuck. Here we go. Dan, you want this one. Do you take into consideration whether things like wait time and other factors for production growing are maybe having an effect on overall gene pool of cannabis, especially compared to Homer? Oh, bro, they're like the number one thing, steering the gene pool. That's what I was talking about. And I think it was the selection episode I did with booze and local, where I was talking about the process itself being its own selection pressure, where it's like if it doesn't fit into the commercial production model, then it's not going to get selected. Because like most of the time, like if say it's too slow, like it's a nice little runty plant that if you baby it, it produces just this incredible smoke. It'll never even make it into flour because it didn't grow fast enough to get cloned before the rest of the main batch went. Because like I don't have time in our schedule and in our speed of work to like wait for any individual plant. You know, if I pop 600 seeds and 100 of them don't make the cut deadline, that's 100 plants that get cut off the roster every single time. And that's just how it works now. And I know other groups, depending on their size, like there's no actual like standardized model for a breeding program within commercial cannabis companies. It's still very informal. Like I would say the program that I work within is probably like one of the more stringently like structured ones, you know what I mean? Most of the time it's still the owner of the company knows a guy. Yeah. And homie makes seeds. You know what I mean? And maybe they make good seeds. You know what I mean? But like it's usually how it works. And most people don't even want to allocate the funds to research and development. And they don't buy whatever the nursery has available this year. And they're like, we got new cuts. We got that chop cherry. And you're like, cool, everyone's got chop cherry. You know what I mean? Like you got that gorilla titties. You got that orangutan titties maybe. Yeah. But it's just like if most like when you look across the state, like in California specifically where I work and you see the commercial offerings from the nurseries, you're going to find the same 20 to 30 cuts usually on a given year. And like it'll rotate out two or three times a year, but like they rotate in the same cuts. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so like what I see is when we get a new cut, I can directly go on IG and someone else, like I can find three or four other people that just got the same exact cut. You know what I mean? And it's like that every single time. And so it's just how it is now. You know? And so. Someone's asking about PNW breeders. I mean, there's archive. Like he's from the PNW and his specialty is PNW historical strains. Someone mentioned a company in here. I've never heard of them. So I don't really like to send people to companies I've never heard of because I've been around long enough and seen enough companies come and go that if I don't know someone, that means they're probably not that old or haven't been in it that long. You know what I mean? I would definitely say archive. CSI also has a large collection of Pacific Northwest heirlooms. Stick to stuff that does well in humidity. You know, fast flowering or high humidity strain. So don't go for cushes, you know, essentially. I do like recommending a lot of next generation seed stuff like the Canadian stuff for human environments, whether that's New York, Pacific Northwest, anything on that parallel. Next generation makes great shit, man. They really do. It's hard to send anyone else anywhere for high humidity type conditions because that's what that stuff spread for, is outdoor high humidity. Also, there's hybrids from hell, Espen. He does great work. A lot of the Swiss, Sativa stuff like that do great outdoors. Mighty, mighty, yeah. All that shit. One from Alice on the screen now. Is German poison a cure for heirloom? It's a pretty common question, I think. No, no. Durban poison itself is not a pure African heirloom, as best I have aware. Durban is a place in South Africa that is a large commercial area for cannabis, for commercial. So, beasters would be like Durban and Swazi and stuff like that. Durban poison, if I remember correctly, was first released by Dutch Passion. It would be Durban, Landrace, Skunk One. No. Just like you're not going to run into pure Landrace. Durban poison, there's not a specific strain called Durban poison. Durban has all sorts of different expressions. It's an area, it's not a strain. So yeah, you're going to see all kinds of different Durban. Let's see, Matt interviewed Carell and talked about where everyone at Amsterdam got their Durban. He said from a coffee shop statement. So there was a Durban coffee shop. That's where they got theirs. They said their Durban was different from the one Mel Frank provided. Mel Franks, I believe, went to Sensee and Seed Bank. But Dutch Passion, or not Dutch Passion, I'm sorry, SSSE, Super City to Seed Club worked with a totally different one. And that interview was the first time we had ever heard that. And yeah, like Durban tie high flight was way too fiddling. So maybe that's where this Durban was sent from that we use a lot. Don't know. Santa Cruz rec is not going to be restocked, but we have the new version of it coming out with high, I'm sorry, with Santa Cruz goat farm and it's going to be the opposite. It's not it's instead of train rec reversed on a blue dream, it's going to be blue dream reversed on the train back. So keep your eyes peeled. We're going to have that probably next week. We're going to say high and goat farm. High and goat farm. Low and goat. Yeah, that's that's what they have next. And that's go loads of lonesome goats. Lonesome goats. Here's a here's one. Let's see. I just what you guys think is better of the old flavors of the Newark creators are doing. I don't give a shit about any of the new work. Most people are doing the lessons with old stuff. I just don't know what you guys think. What is it? What do you guys think is better? The old flavors or Newark creators are doing. I really like the combos of the stuff. Like that's like the work that I get excited about is when I have some new age cut like the papaya cut that I always talk about. Like I love that. I cut that goes around from Bloom Seed Co. And crossing that into all kinds of stuff has me really excited into like older stuff like OG's like into Bubba's into a sour cut. We have a nice blue dream. I crossed it to things like that. You know, I don't have like actual like old old cuts. Like my old cuts quote unquote are all like mid 2k stuff. But yeah. So like I actually really like trying to introgress the traits that are from the old school into like a modern frame and production model. Yeah. I'd love to hear from local here as well just because he's got a, you know, he's recently I feel had like a really good range of range of range of things that he can look through. So yeah. I kind of know what I know. I've seen to kind of stick with things that are like older on a genetic timeline. And, you know, I kind of seem to prefer those over a lot of the newer hybrids. You know, like I do fuck with like some of the Skittle S1 stuff. The Sherb, you know, that stuff is nice, but it's not as good. I don't know. They're like, for example, like that sweet pea stuff. I mean, that shit's phenomenal. Santa Cruz, Rick. I mean, I would totally put that in, you know, in the old flavor realm. And I think that shit's pretty fucking spectacular. Yeah, I don't know. You have someone called Luna in the chat shouting out you. Santa Cruz, Rick, I believe. But yeah, there you go. Yeah, I've been smoking local Santa Cruz, Rick. Oh, it's good, man. It's really good. And then the Electric Boogaloo Appalachia, aka Dogshit Appalachia from High on Lonesome, that shit's fire. Like it smells like traditional old hazy stuff. That's super cool. Yeah, I dig it. There's a bunch that I bookmarked up here, Star. Number one tip for growing OG. Tal Meg, bro. What else do we got? Coming out, any of you have tried, like you're sticking to trying true new stuff coming out to any of us of light. You guys, go ahead. I don't have much experience with it. What did you say? Any new stuff that you've liked that like really kicks your boxes, like other than the papaya, obviously. Fucking A. I'm trying to think. I know there's a few. We just have like so much stuff that rolls through. Fuck, man. Like nothing's coming to mind that's like actually new. Like when I think new, I think like Gelato era like 2016, you know? Yeah. And so like a lot of stuff that I see now is just like honestly reworked versions of that and reworked flavors of that. And so I put it into the same exact category. Like there's a cut called white peaches that goes around. That's like, you know, it's a little peach estuary Gelato. You know what I mean? But like my mind just automatically is like, yeah, nice Gelato. Oh, the permanent marker, man. I actually fucking like it. And every time I get another jar, I'm like, this is some good shit. Right? Until you spoke it for like two days. Bro, I've been smoking it every night for a few weeks now. That's how my first jar was from that batch that I sent you. But I've got some batches from other facilities that I think hold up a little better. And so it's just, it's funny, man. Like, I don't know. It's just, I love that permanent marker smoke. It wasn't bad. It's creature. Yeah, what I do is I flavor it with other stuff. You know what I mean? So like I've been doing these mixers of permanent marker and different ZS ones, which is really nice. I'll throw some OG on there for some extra potency. You know, You find lines bred under HBS can misbehave or not express problem. I don't think anything behaves properly. I think the question is actually just asked wrong. I think it's, do you find that lines selected under HBS can misbehave or not express properly under LED? And that I will 100% say, fuck, yeah, bro. Like I, I've been working with LEDs at scale since 2018 or 2017. And it's been a nonstop battle when you get an older cut to try and figure out how to do the settings because you have like a lot of control in a lot of instances. And so dialing in those settings, especially for older cuts that were guaranteed selected under like single ended 600 watt HBS, like they don't want to get hit with that, you know, 800 to 1800 micromosalite, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah, I don't run LEDs. I wouldn't know. I'm just taking around. You should with how fucking hot it is where you live, bro. I know. I just don't, he sponsors me with him and I'm a broke folk, you know, or I own CMH and T5 and other CMH is, I've run CMH with lower total wattage in hot areas too. And I've gotten really great expressions out of it. And so I like it a lot as well. I haven't moved yet because it was just as effective for me, but realistically with the heat. Yeah, definitely. I need to look at it. Yeah, especially with how far they've come. Someone asked about JAWS, JAWS is a bit. Mic 138, do you really mix HPS LED and UVB? I mean, I guarantee you it is better than any of the individuals, you know what I mean, but. What's UVB? UVB is just, it's another spectrum of UV light. And so like you have to have special fixtures for that. And then a lot of times they'll have specific diodes. Like if you have a, if you look on like an LED bar that you're going to see usually like blue, white and red diodes, but then there's going to be some that look like there's no light coming out of them. But those are actually the UV diodes because you can't see UV light. That makes sense. Yeah, I didn't, I just, I'm not familiar with lights like that. That's new to me. That's that's new tech. Yeah, that's what's up, man. Yeah, that's a cool idea. I've always wanted to do it. I've done CMH mixed with HPS, but never LED mixed with HID lighting. Yeah, I just, I don't know, man. LED was so expensive when I was first looking into it. And I was a part of that wave where when LED first got, got sold to the community, it was really expensive. And it was all that blur pull UFO light stuff. And like, I think that that put a major dent on a lot of people that like immediately jumped into it and spent a bunch of money. Like that turned a lot of people off to LED for a long time. It's definitely taken until maybe the past few years for a lot of people that, that experienced that to even try it again. Because a lot of people spent a lot of money on that shoot. Yeah, the blur pull is not inherently bad though. Like you guys have seen some of my pictures from the, my seed production room where they're like kind of pink blur pull lights in there. Those are like the GE like four foot. They're like giant, one giant light bar, you know what I mean? That sits above a four by eight and you have two of them over a four by eight. And so it's kind of like the Fluence Razors is like what comes to mind to like compare it to. And so I've actually grown really fucking fire weed. Like every time pollen doesn't take, I'm like, oh, it would be some all right smoke. Like I don't actually find that high nitro smoke coming off of a plant that was meant to be pollinated, but it didn't take, you know what I mean? I actually haven't found that it's really that bad if you cure it right. Like obviously if you put it in the, yeah, like it's not inherently bad. And what I've noticed is that in like certain commercial production methods and like setups, you don't get gas as readily, you know what I mean? Like gas is actually kind of a hard expression to nail down in a giant facility. And a lot of it's genetics, but like I can take something that's like pure gas and make it not gassy by putting it under our commercial pressure, you know what I mean? Oh, I bet. And so when I grow it under those with high nitro feed, they're like the rankest, nastiest, most fuel-y version of themselves possible. Yeah. Gas is a hard one to lock down. That's why you don't see a lot of gassy OG either. Like people just growing it all mid-Z commercial. Dude, yeah. That's why I've not even, I'm not even joking. I have tested out probably like 10 different OG cuts recently under our method. And like it just doesn't, it doesn't do it. And then I take every single one of those and if I put it in that, that seed production room, it's fucking to fire. Yeah, exactly. So it's just like that home grow attention and like maybe a feed difference, but there's just so many different variables between, you know, like a hundred light room and a three light room or a four light room. Here's one. Anything, anybody know anything about Pinter Creek Kush with the seed? Possibly the original green crack came out of indoor in southern Alberta. No, there's no Alberta, Canada green crack. That's not gonna. Is that Kush with the seed though, baby? Yeah. You know, like the first time I heard that story, like the first time I saw the cut of green crack, it was called Kush with the seed. Green Kush with the seed. And during that time, Cecil had somehow told somebody thought that was his cut and been renamed to green crack. Later years later, we talked and his cut of Kush with the seed, he said the skunky and green crack is not skunky at all. It's mango, skunky mango, but mostly mango. And it was not a part of the term profile of his Kush. So Cecil does not have anything to do with green crack, nor does like his Kush with the seed. But that story seems to travel with it for a long ways. I do know that the cut when it made it to to California was Kush with the seed. And most people prefer to call green Kush with the seed because the crack name was not popular in collectives. People didn't like some of that. What leads you to believe green crack is a skunk one? Mango, how it grows, you know, a lot of skunk one, skunk one dominant, whatever it is. Man, I just want to point out that you're cutting out in little bits when you turn your head too far. Oh, there we go. I wanted to talk real quick just the back to the skunk one thing is that that papaya is really similar to green crack. And what it does is the same kind of thing as it's the mango sour candy kind of thing. But it has a very prominent cheesy note to it that's in that background. Beyond it's just like general look too. It's very like green crack skunk one is like, if you have a lot of experience with skunk one, you'll smell it. Here's another interesting one. I don't know if you guys know anything about the PPP. Peona purple paralyzer. I believe it's the original name. Nope. I only know about my PPP. Yeah. The best story I've ever heard on it was from Stacey. Stacey Muir from Overgrow. He's a legit dude and he had some, where the seeds were from, Niederland purple indica. And if I remember correctly, and I don't want to misquote him because he's not one person I want to misquote. But I'll ask him more about the PPP and see if it has that relation because I don't really know. But I think that the Peona, Peonia purple paralyzer was somehow related to that Niederland purple indica. If I remember correctly, don't quote me. I really want to get Stacey on for a show. He would be amazing, amazing, amazing. Anything else to be aware out or welcome? There's 250 here. There was an older question from Alice D about, I've read it's rare for, let me put it on the screen. I've read it's rare for something to actually be plus 30% plus THC and this is the biological threshold. Can this number be changed in the plant? I mean, this has to do with like, is it logical limitations, right? Well, it depends on the parameters that you put on the thought experiment, right? Is it fully flowered? That's the number one thing that I think because I remember that, I saw that question when we were coming through and I think there's a question that was like just after it too. Or maybe it was a different person. Maybe, but anyway, yeah, I don't think there's like a real threshold for all circumstances, you know what I mean? But if you're talking about like 63-day stuff flowered exactly to 63-day, I would put it like 30% plus or minus 3%, you know what I mean? And like a 10% margin of error is like pretty generous. But that's like what I realistically expect out of like a selected really bangin' modern cut that's been selected for commercial production. And also what's happening right now is testing labs are also getting a massive shakeup in California specifically. And so we're gonna see a lot of numbers drop right off the fucking cliff is what I'm expecting in January because we've had to specifically go to labs and be like, do not give us some bullshit fucking numbers, you know? And so like when I'm submitting super large samples, I'll see everything from 13% to 37%, you know what I mean? And so it's like, well, they weren't lying on the 13% one, you know what I mean? Or maybe that was actually 8%. So you never really know. And so these really strict testing standards and the state producing their own like sample testing standards, as far as like this one milligram is one milligram of THC to like run into an HLPC machine. It's like gonna change the game as far as like what these labs are allowed to do to fudge the numbers too. Oh yeah. I mean, realistically just look at it from any kind of like economical perspective. Am I too loud now? No, no, you're fine. Okay. If you pay a place to give you tests and there's a bunch of places that do this testing and the people that want the highest number or the highest percent sells the best at each collective, they're going to be going to the lab that gives them the highest percentage for these tests. That is common sense and that's what's happened to me. Like it's just obvious. I had a different angle into this which was thinking about it from the point of view of like physical constraints in terms of like cannabinoid balance from like the plant's physiology point of view. Any thoughts on that? Like maybe local or Dan? Can you ask it again? I was reading some comments that are fucking ignorant as fuck. I was looking at this question about 30% plus THC from the point of view of like physiological constraints or physical constraints in the plant. What's the max outline? You always find outliers in populations for every single trait and so like what I think about it is like say that in average my Skittles S1s have 2% turf expression. There are outliers that are three and a half almost 4% in there and that's just an up-regulated gene that expresses more of the exact same thing and so it's all preference. That number doesn't mean it's going to get you more high. You know what I mean? That's what I hate about THC numbers the most is people get so caught up and like there's a physiological limit to how high it can be and I'm like no, I think there's more a physiological limit that THC isn't the only thing that affects the high. You know what I mean? It's not even a limit. It's just like a condition and so it's like if you have one out of the eight things that get you high and it's in this super up-regulated environment where the plant's not producing any of these secondary cannabinoids and it can all go into THC. If it's not producing any secondary aroma compounds it can all, all that energy can go into just THC. Does that make better weed? I genuinely don't think so but I think it's more the statement is faulty more than the premise. You know what I mean? What do you think about this comment? Oh, that's the one I'm talking about. I knew it was. Yeah. 27% tops. I guess there's a map. But that's the same thing. It's like Chem91 lays out most people but it'll test at 18 or less. You know what I mean? Maybe 20% if you take it at the right time. But you know what I mean? Like it's not the thing, the only thing that affects and modulates the high that you're feeling and highs are different for everyone. And so like we've talked about this a million times where like some things give certain people absolute panic attacks and other people are like, that's what I smoke to chill the fuck out at the end of the day. And so brain chemistry I think is honestly way more important than any of these numbers because like I met a dude at work who he can eat a thousand milligrams of edibles and like be fully functioning and go to the bar and have drinks. It just doesn't affect him. You know what I mean? If I eat a thousand mill, I'd be in the psych ward for three fucking days. Yeah, right? Guaranteed bro. Yeah, I mean I work in that field like the QA stuff. There's a range for sure. The most I'll see is like 31, 32% you know? And that's rare. The quality of the weed though is like fucking trash. That's what I'm yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at too. You know what I bring it back to? Like people always talk about like the entourage effect. Oh, it's this turf. After modulating that high, that's why you're getting so fucking high. You know, like it gave me an eight percenter but that turf is what's doing it. I've had weed like the old Afghan kush cut that was coming out of Michigan. It had no scent, no taste, like nothing, but it would fuck you up. And it wasn't super high testing in THC. It was not super terpy that any that I could sense. It was smelled like literally like nothing. Another plant that I had like this, that I got to smell similar was the menthol. And I didn't get to smoke that, but this was a plant that for sure had really no defining scent. It was very much a like a blanket cardboard turf, but it was had such a great high. I don't know how you explain that kind of high using the entourage effect type theory other than maybe it's different cannabinoids that don't have certain smells or tastes. And a lot of people attribute it to just turps or just flavonoids. And I don't even think that's just the answer. I don't even think that we've identified all the psychoactive compounds that even compose. You know what I mean? Like if we really think about cannabis, it's like working off of these like carbon ring structures and it'll produce, if you look at terpenes, if you look at cannabinoids, it's literally almost like it's every single possible iteration of side chains off of this five carbon ring kind of thing. Or I'm not even, I'm not a chemist. So it's like, I don't, whatever, whatever that is. You know what I mean? But if you can look at them all and look at a chart of all the chemical structures and you're like, it seems like it's every single possible iteration. You know what I mean? And this plant has this mechanism or like it's incentivized to produce every single possible secondary metabolite that it possibly can because we like it. You know what I mean? And so, I just... So you're saying that the possibility space is like immense. It's immense, yeah. And like terpenes are literally just like one type of aromatic compound. You know what I mean? We've heard that on the show a couple times too where it's just like, you know what I mean? Like it's just, I don't think we have any understanding whatsoever about how this plant affects our mind and our body's physiology. I think that that level of understanding is like literally we've scratched the surface and we're like, oh yeah, yeah. THC gets you high. Oh yeah, CBGs for inflammation. And I'm like, if you think about that, that's like how a like Instagram influencer like mom fluencer type talks about essential oils. Yes. And like that shit is like the sketchiest level of, yeah, like Sweet Peach has said, 400 different cannabinoids. We test for five to seven. You know what I mean? And nobody even looks at anything but THC and CBD. Like I have to go out of my way on a test to click more links to expand view to even see CBG or CBC. That's wild. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, and those aren't even psychoactive. So like I just think that like when people get hung up on THC numbers, I'm like, you've missed the whole picture. You know what I mean? It's when, and like what local was saying is like when I see a 35% tester, I don't think like I'm going to get fucked up when I smoke this. I'm going to be like, yeah, it's going to be some kind of trashy smoke. Yep. You know what I mean? When I see something mid 20s with a high turf profile, I'm like, that's going to be tasty as fuck. You know? And even then it's not always. I've seen stuff with 4% turps that didn't really smell that good. How often do you see THCV? Never. And my new, my new amounts constantly, but never above like a threshold of a 10th of a milligram to like a third of a milligram per gram sample. CBG is much more common. That's the most and CBC as well. And just like CBC is kind of in between prevalence, you know, but it's they even care about CBN anymore. I don't, I don't see CBN ever on tests. It's like a category on there, but it's almost always non-detect and the lines that I work. And so I have some stuff that I wish I could work at scale at my job, but there's no commercial value to it without like years of work and like thousands of seeds grown and popped. Like it's, it would be the way to do that would be on a sun grown farm, like in a field, you know, because then I could pop 10,000 seeds and at the end of the day, we're extracting it all. But like I can pull out samples that I want tested and we can do something like a mobile HPLC and start getting like a quicker, cheaper sample. So we can actually test 10,000 of them and not pay 50 bucks a sample. It is interesting, but I've worked in cannabinoid isolation and discovery or cannabinoid, I don't even know how to pronounce that. Still, I think it's very unlikely that a psychoactive cannabinoid exists that has such a low EC50 that we don't know about it. Well, not that we don't know about it, but that we don't test for it in any meaningful way. And so it basically doesn't exist to anyone that would be working it anyway. You know, that's kind of more what I'm getting at is like there's an immense amount of cannabinoids and we test for five to seven, you know, and most of those show up in my new trace amounts in almost the whole working commercial population at large. And so, there you go. That's cool. Yeah, that's kind of what I've heard. I've also heard things from like Chimera that like when he looks at lab tests, he can tell when people are misinterpreting results for cannabinoids and kind of like extenuating or you know what I mean, interpreting analysis wrong because they can't tell the difference between certain cannabinoids. And so I just like don't trust labs. At the end of the day, it's a marketing tool more than anything. I don't need to have a lab tell me if weed is good or not. I'm going to smoke them all anyway. There was, there was a, let me see, hold on. Here's, here's the one that I had up. Any of you had experience with cob or otherwise fermented in aged cannabis? Yeah, I've fucking not burped a turkey bag before. I've had ferment, intentionally fermented hashed. It was really good. From pit. And then I got to smoke cob at the last gathering that we had. And it makes nice big dark clouds of smoke. And that's about all I got. Yeah, like it didn't make me any more fucked up. It didn't make me anything. Frankly, it didn't cut through the high of any of the other shit that I was smoking that night. I can really smell in like gelato type stuff too when people don't dry and cure properly because it really does get this very specific. The people that used to buy for me would call it pissy. You know what I mean? It's not really piss, but it's this like, I don't know. It's this weird take on. It's a weird take on kind of gelato eaterps. And it's the fermented version. And it's from the year that I did not burp. At least enough, you know what I mean? Oh, someone just called themselves out for being a clown. That's cool. Bye. I reckon we start wrapping up. We're coming to the end of two hours. Oh yeah, I fuck. Wrap that shit up. Thank you. Just for fun. Just for fun. Everyone in the comments write what you're smoking today tonight. And also get your last questions in. Yeah, also like, if there's anything we talked about you disagree with or anything else you wanted to add that we didn't get to share your thing, be sure to go to the video afterwards. Leave it in the comments there. We always check those and I go back and respond to people there. And yeah, that's always fun. I like I like the after comments and to see what people thought of the episode. So please go leave a comment, like, subscribe, all that fun stuff. I didn't even point you that out this time. They're like, this dude, Dan, the douche. He's a douche or man, what a chat. That was fucking asshole. Sour dub. I love sour dub. Dude, that's that's one I would like to see again. Early skunk. I did. I'd smoke some early pearl skunk one. That's silver pearl. That image. That is a fucked looking pepper. Oh, my lord. Yeah, let's see anything else we should cover. I was looking at everyone who came on the show the last season. Oh, yeah. We had to shout out too. Yeah, that's right. Because we most of our episodes ended up being, you know, in both people from our crew. So shout out to high and lonesome, spindle, panda, local, urn, farmadan, sweet peach, little hill. Also shout out little hill cultivators merch. Gush of the Giants, Denali, Maddie booze and grid by seeds, gold cut, Riot Seaco Europe. Go for it. Thanks, everyone. I think he appeared. Did we get Godeon? Or was that sorry? Didn't GoFarm come up? Oh, yeah. Not this season. Oh, was that last season? Okay. That might have been last season. Not this season. He's got a much better complete list. Sure, banger. Sure, banger. Pure Michigan. Could you imagine smoking something called Pure Michigan? It's just like one of those things, you know, like if you've ever been to Michigan. Restful turfs. Yeah. Wow. I never, like, I never understood that cut. It's kind of like the, came out, I remember, around the same time as like the Oreos, I think. Yeah. Johnny come lately, bullshit to me. OGKB was done in 2012, bro. Like all this other bullshit that came out after, late to the table. Johnny come lately. There was shit done better earlier. I don't know. I have no respect for any of the dudes that came in like 10 years after OGKB showed up and thought they were doing something. No respect. No respect. It's one of those ones too where I'm like, where'd you get it? Yeah, right. It's like, I don't know. I've never come across it a single time. I've never even met anyone that's held it. Like, well, like concurrently, like while I knew them. And so. All right. I'm, what else do we got? You got anything you want to say, Dan, or Locke, anything? No, man. I'm chilling. Fucking, I don't know. Everybody smokes some weed for me tonight. Got some family shit going down. It's not, not that chill. So fucking appreciate the thoughts. Fucking go buy some seeds from all the homies. They all make fire shit. I wish I had more space as soon as well, but I can't wait to start popping some, some more packs of all the stuff that everybody makes because we have a, you know, really tight crew of guys that are doing a lot of like really original work, you know. And so come check it out. Yeah, dude. The newest Patreon packs are going to be sick. Real sick. Yeah, dude. I still get stuff. Yeah. There's unreleased high and lonesome stuff coming. A's base. We're doing a bunch of the punchy bluster stuff. Basically, like the fallen soldiers from the punchy bluster stuff going out and that. All kinds of stuff's going out. So yeah. Yeah, that's what's up, man. And anything else? Anyone else local? What you got? Nothing really, dude. Shout out Skittles. Shout out several patch kids. Shout out atomic warheads. Yeah. Yeah. And that pure Michigan. And that pure Michigan. All right. And with that, we've got rightseeds.com. Go get your spray, your seeds. You just had the Black Friday sell. There's all kinds of stuff that happened there and cool stuff coming out. We do have elite cannabis stuff. I don't know what brand it's going to be under, but the Kim D I-95 hybrids and the Mobile One hybrids coming soon. We have goat farm stuff with the Blue Dream Femmes coming up this week, coming up. And Silver Pearl Appie, stuff like that. Get dropped from high and lonesome. So definitely check it out. Go look it up. And thanks, everyone, for showing up. And with that, is anything else? No, we will be back next week for season 10. All right, next week. That's us. Got got got, dude. Her skirt from up north. Cut up on it. Want to sit at the table with a syndicate? Check out our Patreon and our link tree or description below. Our merch site is officially live. We have all sorts of shirts, hoodies, and goodies to sort you out. And shipping is super fast. And most importantly, the quality is top notch. I've been saving old designs for years for this purpose, so please check it out. Syndicategear.com. We also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily. It's an amazing community of learning away from IG. And it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge. We hope you join our union of breeders and growers. Come check it out.