 Welcome to all the colleagues here and joining us to zoom and especially welcome to my friend Makda and his team from the IFC. As our head of communication told you, dear colleagues, we are here to share with you some of the findings of the IEA IFC joint analysis on how to scale up private financing for clean energy in emerging and developing economies. For us for the IEA this is a crucial topic and as I always say there are many many challenges to reach our internship climate goals and if somebody asks me to pick up the most important one for me this is the fault line of reaching internship climate goals namely financing clean energy in the emerging and developing world. This was a conversation between Makda and myself at the end of last year and we thought why don't we bring the forces together our strengths together and come up with such a report. Because dear colleagues, I believe modern I believe our numbers show the future of the energy world and the climate issues will be more and more decided in Delhi, Dakar, Baghdad, Jakarta and elsewhere. So it is therefore very important that we brought Makda and myself IES our unparalleled energy data, our analytical skills and our expertise in energy transition together with IFCs a deep experience, real-world experience in terms of the get the projects moving. Dear colleagues, if I can try to frame the discussion and our work we at the IEA we look at the energy investment globally every year how much money goes to pipelines, refineries, renewable energy, everything and this year for example the entire energy investment in the world is 2.7 trillion dollars 2.7 out of this 2.7 1 trillion dollars goes to fossil fuels 1.7 clean energy investments. So 1.7 clean and one for fossil fuels and when we look at CIS Paris agreement clean energy investments is increasing gradually. This is a good news. The bad news is when we look at this increase more than 90 percent of the increase since Paris 2015 to today in the clean energy comes from advanced economies and China. Only 10 percent of the increase comes from the emerging and developing countries as such we think that we need to change this trend which is more or less flat since 80 years clean energy investment in the emerging and developing world and we know that there are some bright spots here and there. I was last week in India for the G20 meetings in India there's a solar issue in Brazil there is some renewal projects but globally it is really not very promising. If I can share with you how much it is a problem not only for climate but in general energy. One for me very stark example A couple of data today in sub-Saharan Africa one out of two person they don't have electricity one out of two. Second 40 percent of the global solar radiation in the world comes to sub-Saharan Africa the richest region in the world. Third solar is the cheapest source of electricity generation in the entire world today almost entire world including sub-Saharan Africa. Fourth however this is a stark problem the amount of solar electricity or electricity from solar we generate entire sub-Saharan Africa is less than solar electricity generated in Netherlands. But look at the thing about the map how big is Africa how big is Netherlands how sunny is Africa how sunny is Netherlands and yet Netherlands generates more electricity from solar than sub-Saharan Africa. I think this is an example that needs to be fixed for climate but before climate for energy and economic development. Our analysis show that today in the emerging and developing countries clean energy investments are about $250 billion. $250 billion goes to clean energy investment in the emerging and developing world to be in line with the sustainable development goals including reaching our climate goals this need to be multiplied by a factor of seven it should be close to two trillion US dollars. But when we look at how this money can be raised our analysis show that this will be impossible this money to be financed raised by the public resources alone so there is a need to get private capital and our analysis here shows that the about 60 percent of the finance for the emerging and developing countries for clean energy needs to be financed from the private sources so there is a role for that but how will this happen this will happen by taking some key measures and we have in our work identified four different dimensions how the private sector money can flow in these countries and it is now here my great pleasure to turn to my friend my colleague Makda to take us through how we can raise this money multiply the current 250 by a factor of seven to be in line with our energy and climate goals. Makda over to you please. Thank you very much it's a huge pleasure to behave my friend Fatih I would like to read to to commend him really for his great contribution AAE is a leading institution in the world in term of analytical work and policy advice in the energy sector. I know that I worked on energy from the public sector side of the World Bank Group and now the private sector we started our collaborations at time and it was clear that from the day one we agreed that joining force would be the only solution to bring in and really building on the very high level of quality of analysis which is coming from AAE we can ensure that bringing the private sector flavor on the MDB's flavor to the conversation we'll be able to attract more investment so as I've been said most of the investment go to most advanced economies more China and very not enough go to low income countries particularly in Africa has been highlighted we have here and now some challenges I was a month ago with at Bellagio discussing business institutional investors who are ready to put more money in this sector and they ask for a certain number of questions and I think that some of those questions are largely addressed in the in the report but let me highlight some of the questions they don't they cannot appreciate properly the risk attached to investing in low income countries so they need to understand better the level of risk be able to price better the investment so the work of in of data that have been collected on by by IAE is very important to be disseminated to the investors to themselves to understand better the economic information that is in those countries the second one is the information that we have as working in other sectors in those countries that are very important for instance we have team up with other partners to have to go the gems which is a database on the risk profile of investment which are made in low income countries so that you give a better perception of the risk secondly institutional investors want to have a large amount of money to invest when you talk to a fund manager for needs for institutional investors they don't want to invest 10 million dollars a year 20 million dollars a year 100 million there they want billions to be able to go to their board and convince their board to take the deposit and the contribution of the pensioner of their country to invest it in productive project so we come to the second bottleneck which is the number of bankable projects which are presented and the diversity of geographic sources of these projects so that they can be risked investment and have a portfolio investment which is diverse enough for them to control and to have a better understanding of the risk but in spite of all this size and to be able to have a better understanding of the risk they still consider that the risk is very high and therefore they need some money to de-risk and that's also conversation about blended finance how we can leverage so when Fatih Biral and I start talking about it a few years ago we he was among those who really pushed to see how can we leverage the philanthropic money was this money as if it's given there in the world on a grand basis on an individual basis to countries and but where we looked at it and we didn't feel that there was a leverage that was needed by using these resources so the idea has been now to bring more of these philanthropic money brings the bilateral money given by countries in terms of grant but also the resources of mdbs and also conversations that you will be will be happening in the next two three days in Paris is about that if you want to summarize it a big part with about that and that's what we're doing right now in the energy sector is a little bit of a teaser of the conversations that you have at the broader level in a few days when we will be launching the report this is a summit called by President Macron but in the meantime we haven't been stay inactive there is a lot of instruments that have been developed in terms of private capital mobilization the market from green born has been increasing this year I'm going to give you the numbers because I need another 10 days to provide us our final numbers in terms of commitments this year but I can tell you already it will be by far the highest increase in commitment in the year to year in the history of IFC but where is more importantly is where is increased in commitment coming from we have moved 46 percent of our commitment in IFC on climate change related activities and a lot of them are linked to the renewable energy agenda so therefore we have seen a sort of transformation of the type of lending that the private sector and the DFI's are making one let me give you to close some of the instruments that we are using we'll be using we are using a lot of bonds we are more and more the green bonds are becoming more and more popular among countries we are working on the using the taxonomy and the green taxonomy that has been developed with country to be able to make this market even larger and moving from being a national market to be a regional market therefore someone has a bond in one country it could trade them in another place and vice versa so that we can have a much larger capitalization of this market the second is to link a green energy transition to social inclusion Fatih was mentioned in earlier countries like Indonesia and others this transition we require also to take into account social elements and that's why we have been in addition to the green bonds having social bond and socially inclusive and sustainable bond to take into account all that is necessary to be done third the reports of IEA have a series of reports that I personally read religiously about the technology evolution and we have a good story around solar we show that when we have this big push together is a private sector investing more in a in a technology the cost curve go down very quickly and that's the story of solar today which is much much cheaper and accessibility developing countries so how to have the same movement on very mature technology which are available and Fatih has been pushing very much on hydrogen on green hydrogen on all these sort of of electricity that would be very important for developing countries particularly those who have a lot of natural resources available lastly we need to work on the overall environment which is the the situation of utilities and off-takers because if you want to have proper generation you need to ensure that the demand is as solid as possible and that demand is often articulated through the utilities so having healthy utilities allow investors to come and invest in renewable and therefore off-takers who are healthier and the healthier these off-takers are the cheaper is of course of electricity because if they are not healthy you need to have guarantees to ensure that there is a sanctity of contract and these guarantee increase on the cost so we have all the chain and I just want to illustrate the complementarity between what you can do on mobilizing capital from the private sector and the policy work that is done and the convenient power that IAE has and we promise ourselves to this to be the beginning of a process where we will be looking at binding constraints in that space and work together to address them so if you allow me I will ask the team the great teams that have been doing a fantastic work team and Susan to give you some elements of the report that is embarked until tomorrow that you will have an opportunity to read fully when we are releasing it tomorrow so I return to team and to start the presentation. Thank you very much indeed managing director and I we just have a couple of slides which illustrate I think some of the points already made by the executive director and the managing director and the first one is just to highlight that pickup in clean energy spending in recent years and that was highlighted very much by Dr. Birol that's partly a story about costs it's partly a story about policies and the way that energy security worries through the global energy crisis have reinforced the attraction of clean energy technologies alongside their environmental benefits and it's also from our perspective a question of industrial strategy as companies and countries are looking for footholds in the in the new emerging clean energy economy and but as was highlighted when you start breaking this trend down you can see that the picture becomes a lot more nuanced first of all to highlight that a big part of that has come from advanced economies particularly the U.S. and the European Union and then if you subtract China as well China a big clean energy powerhouse and then you get to the situation that Dr. Birol mentioned that the amount of spending the amount of investment going into clean energy technologies from emerging and developing countries outside China has remained relatively flat at just around or above 250 billion dollars each year so there are positive signs within that solar in India is an exceptionally good example and there are others but this fact remains that that other emerging and developing economies that's roughly two thirds of the global population but that's only 15 percent of the amount of money going into a range of clean energy technologies and if you ask the question well what's preventing capital from flowing into those kinds of projects and there is no single or simple answer to that question each project has its own distinctive profile and it faces some distinctive elements so mature clean technologies have strong underlying economics but they do face headwinds of different sorts some of them are sort of macro in nature and an environment of rising borrowing costs is certainly a part of that broader picture and but I think some of the elements highlighted by the managing director are particularly pertinent in here and a lack of data to assess risk I think is a very important consideration and there are also very sort of sector and project specific issues that we need to have in mind and I think another very good example that mr. job mentioned is the credit worthiness of off-takers so if you can't be sure that you're going to get paid for the output of your renewable project that is of course a huge risk factor that you need to consider when you're considering when you're putting together an investment proposal and there are good examples about how that's been handled in the end you have to have healthy utilities but in for instance in India you had the solar energy corporation of India that was set up as a very credit worthy counterpart for some of those renewable projects and that's helped a lot of projects in the solar sector go ahead in India and others have sort of looked at that example in Cambodia is a good example where they had a similarly robust off-taker but also looked after issues like land acquisition and and access to the grid for projects and that of course helps projects coming through but I think we need to have in mind that the weakness of grid infrastructure in many emerging developing economies that is a big constraint on on on new clean power investments and so the risks they vary from project to project and we shouldn't only talk about the electricity sector we need to focus also on the demand sectors on clean fuels and everything else but a common denominator of that environment is that the cost of capital for a typical clean energy project in an emerging and developing economy can be two or three times higher than in advanced economies or in China of course that will need to change if we're going to generate the sorts of increases that you're looking at on the screen and that would be required to meet those sustainable development goals and and climate goals and but one element that I think is important to have in mind here we've talked about access to electricity and access to clean cooking fuels is another extremely important issue for sustainable development and but to provide universal access to electricity and clean cooking fuels by 2030 would take just under two percent of that total so that needs to be 45 billion dollars that's that's the sort of sum that we need to be considering within that much larger envelope of financing that would need that would be needed in order to secure universal access and the we've also done some detailed work by region and you can see the sort of regional breakdown that we have here for for that spending and there's a lot more in the report but the title of this work is about scaling up private sector financing for clean energy in emerging developing economies and I just wanted to say a couple of words on why that focus on on private and when we focus on private sector financing we need to be clear everything needs to scale up if we're going to achieve these sustainable development and climate goals public private domestic international concessional non-concessional so it's very important to have in mind that no one source will be able to do a line but that's roughly the financing picture that we see today for clean energy investment in emerging developing economies for reasons that we can all understand that sources of public finance are constrained particularly at a time when many countries are facing severe fiscal constraints high debt burdens amongst the emerging developing economies themselves and we need to see increases in international commitments to help but the largest share the largest increase it comes from that that that private financing side and I think at this point I would pass it across to Susan to talk about how you can best deploy those public resources also to leverage the much larger amounts of private capital that will be required okay thank you Tim and thank you all it has really been a pleasure working with IEA and they're a wonderful team so to pick up we need to scale up all types of financing but particularly private sector financing so I'll do the math for you on this chart currently if we exclude China we've got about 135 billion dollars a year in private finance going to emerging economies for the clean energy transition that's got a scale to 1.1 trillion so we've got to increase nearly 10x what we're sending out to the emerging world now how are we going to do that so as you heard from Maktar there are two pillars of what needs to happen first is to create the financial instruments and platforms that will enable institutional investors and others to come in at scale and secondly we need to expand the pipeline of investable bankable energy projects in emerging economies so to do those things we need four actions first we need to radically scale up concessional blended finance for private investment this report estimates that each year we're going to need 80 billion to 100 billion dollars in concessional blended finance to attract the private investment needed now I want to be very clear not every clean energy project in emerging economies needs blended finance there are many similar PV projects or onshore wind projects that are commercially viable without any subsidies but blended finance is needed for instance in new technologies that haven't scaled yet so the costs are still very high and there's uncertainty about outcomes so that would include for instance battery storage low emission hydrogen or renewable fuel desalination today in addition we typically need blended finance in frontier markets that have high levels of macroeconomic or political risk associated with them and that can also include the foreign currency risk that comes when you're investing in what is the local currency business bringing your hard currency so when we look at it all together though this is a good investment for the donor countries in our experience every single dollar of blended finance brings between seven dollars and ten dollars of private sector investment so this is a this is a high leverage opportunity as opposed to giving a dollar of grant through a government where a dollar of grant is just a dollar of investment the second thing we need as moctar mentioned our new financing instruments and platforms that can attract institutional money at scale examples that you're well aware of our green bonds blue bonds sustainability linked bonds there are voluntary carbon markets that have the potential to raise capital not only from investors but also large corporations provided that they're accompanied by credible plans to reduce their own carbon emissions by those corporations however all these things need a lot of work on standards on credible monitoring and reporting and on independent verification processes there's a big risk of greenwashing and the world frankly doesn't have afford to have time to have these sort of quasi greenwashed instruments now in addition are what we call platforms and securitization these are critical because as moctar mentioned when you have a large global investor they can't invest in small projects so platforms are a way of taking money in and investing up front so i of c for instance along with amundi launched the mcpp one planet fund so it takes institutional money up front and then we deploy it to a specific specified climate projects in developing countries like renewable energy there's also securitization which would work the other way around where you take a bundle of climate related investments perhaps from multiple mdbs at once and you bundle them together into a security this provides risk diversification and sometimes splendid finances used to juice the returns of that to get it to investment grade so you can then attract a whole set of institutional investors so all these things need to be developed and very quickly third we do need to develop local capital markets in developing economies and this is to scale domestic investment and enable local currency hedging so by bolstering domestic bond inequity markets and swaps and derivative markets we create an environment where energy projects can thrive we also create an environment where we can allow domestic companies and domestic investors to finance projects and we can enable either the local companies or foreign investors to hedge foreign currency risk finally we need to dramatically scale the pipeline of investable projects so when we talk to institutional investors the problem is not a lack of money in the world there's two and a half trillion dollars of money you're marked an esg fund so that's from investors who want to put their money to good use but very very little of that actually flows to emerging markets so there's a lot that needs to be done to actually create the right policy environment to enable the private sector and enable foreign participation first governments need to establish their own credible medium and long-term clean energy transition plan investors need to know where a country's headed and that it's not a one-off opportunity second there are a whole range of policy and regulatory actions that need to be taken that will differ by countries but these may include reforming fossil fuel subsidies changing lengthy processes for licensing improving land rights use and usage and and removing restrictions on private or foreign ownership third as Mokhtar mentioned governments need to get their power sector in order this includes uh uh making the offtaker or the public state-owned utilities um credit worthy and here public private partnerships come in to play a big role this is another area where IFC works with governments to help them structure and figure out how will they transform their energy a sec sector to allow private investment in a sustainable way and then finally governments need to set the regulatory framework to allow the green and sustainable financial instruments we talked about to thrive so to sum up the challenge is great time is very short but together we can build a more sustainable future and with that we would like to open it to questions from all of you thank you very much for the presentation so we now have a bit of time to take questions from journalists for journalists in the room do please raise your hands and journalists joining us virtually please use the Q&A function in the zoom we do encourage you to state your name and news organization when placing your question and one final point we are in Paris I know there are quite a few francophone journalists joining us in person and remotely if you prefer to put your question in French that's absolutely fine um uh although I think most of our speakers will probably reply in English uh but we can see how it goes um but just if that's uh if that works better for anyone um so we'll maybe try to do a few questions at a time um uh so we have two people here Matt and another colleague sorry Sharon oh okay great Sharon would you like to go first and then and then Matt well thank you for your presentation I'm Sharon Machpot I work for Lezico I had one specific question on we've seen a lot of European country planning planning to produce a hydrogen uh in an emerging market uh to what extent this could accelerate investment uh and to what extent this could benefit to uh emerging market I mean in some project in in most of the project uh it is aim and it is built to export the energy that is produced integrally thank you thanks Sharon and Matt if you could get your question as well Matt Dalton with the Wall Street Journal um you mentioned that there is the need for 80 to 100 billion annually in concessional finance so how much is the world doing right now um and what can the IFC do in particular to to increase that number thank you Matt um and then uh I think there's one question from the zoom we'll do and we'll take those three uh one up to the other um so um it's from Nurin Erkel from Anadolu Agency uh in Turkey and she asks what are the biggest challenges in your view for clean energy investment and financing uh in emerging developing economies uh and looking ahead could this be a priority agenda uh for COP 28 um so in summary we have the the hydrogen um in emerging uh and developing economies and the export question from Sharon um Matt's question on concessional finance and and what IFC can do and then uh a question on on the where this could be a priority for COP 28 um Dr. Burrell would you like to to start us off maybe if uh Mark are you agree I start with one and three and you you can go whatever you want to so I will not answer the IFC question I will leave it to you so no no no no no thank you very much so um now you are right many European countries uh want to in order to address the energy security and climate challenges many European countries uh are uh making agreements with the especially African countries to import the hydrogen to the energy mix a in my view it is important to see that the today a Europe needs additional energy but Africa needs even more energy than Europe for the energy mix I hope that those projects would be designed in a way that it would first help the addressing energy and climate challenges of the very African country second it would provide a handsome export revenues to those countries and totally it would be a a good deal for the European countries in this priority order I would put it for the third question for the COP 28 and clean energy investments I very much hope that the COP 28 would give a strong boost to clean energy investment emerging and developing countries one very issue you all know that the hundred billion story and we expect this hundred billion will be reached but within the hundred billion only 30 billion goes to clean energy the other ones called agriculture and adaptation and others out of this hundred 30 billion is for energy and our analysis show that to reach our energy and climate goals in these countries this 30 30 billion and needs to be multiplied by three and we hope that the advanced economies are there in order to commit themselves to to increase this amount by a factor of three in my view this would be a one of the outcomes I will watch closely whether or not COP 28 will be a successful one or not over to you thank you much Vati I do think that the quite of this thing needs to be happening in for hydrogen first as I indicated we need to attract more investment for cutting the cost of hydrogen from what I learned from my colleague from IEA is that electrolyzer costs are roughly 30% of the price at 70% is coming from energy when you want to produce hydrogen so the cost of energy we drive a lot the possibility of producing hydrogen we talk a lot about electrolyzers that's part of the capital cost but but you know there are some important factors which is a cost of electricity and when you want to have green hydrogen you need to have to continue investing heavily in renewable energy so that you can you can produce cheaper electricity to be able to do that but as we talked about hydrogen also I had yesterday a good conversation around water water would be also an important issue to be looked at when you want to ensure that is energy this is a form of energy as also is sustainable we know that a lot of this country which have also access to green energy are water scarce so we have a whole dynamic that is driven by energy policy and what energy can do in a country to be able to move them the needle on on on climate change agenda practically when there is local demand for green hydrogen it makes it even easier to develop and we have a good example for us with OCP OCP is officially the first fat which is one of the largest fertilizer producer in the world which is a client of IFC and we are helping them to produce urea with green hydrogen as you know morocco has been investing heavily in CSP concentrated solar power and also form of power under solar energy and that is that they will be using that basis to be able to produce green hydrogen and therefore link it to the producer production of fertilizer and that's a good uh uh uh a restitution of what is of the importance of energy and electricity in in in all production sectors which are mentioned so today we can we can posit that if we invest heavily in renewable energy we can add having good solution to the food crisis that we are having right now for our food security and our sustainable fertilizers which is something that when people are talking about electricity and energy they don't often refer to refer to I will ask uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh Susan to tell you more about the numbers but what you can do more to mobilize is a little bit more of what we are currently doing and need to have new avenues news our news is we'd be very much linked to the project preparation and the number of bankable project what we would like to do we are working on on a concept which is called the warehousing whereby we will be having a project have been prepared put it on put it in that warehouse and after offload it to the market uh uh very quickly so but to do that you need to be able to generate project at scale you need and for me we're talking a lot about mobilization money but not enough about generation of project and that generation of project is linked to a lot of the policy issues that have been highlighted uh the sustainability of the sector but also a clear vision of what the country wants to do in the energy sector is there is no visibility you cannot have this very large project that allows you to mobilize more resources to securitize them to do all the things that i've mentioned secondly we need more more more uh more uh uh blended finance and and and and you know grant money to be able to do risk investment in new technologies uh we need uh and that's what will be makes them much more much much more expensive secondly we need to work on the taxonomy as a green taxonomy on in countries to deepen the capital market and be able to mobilize more more resources on it third we need to continue helping the individual companies to have a green transition one of the things that we are doing a lot is that companies which are working in hard to obey sector have a challenge they want to reduce emissions but they cannot because they don't have a plan so currently we are working with large companies in sectors like aluminium and others to help them have a trajectory which helps them to accelerate their green transition so at the utility level at the capital market level but at the individual firm level and looking particularly at how to obey sectors let me just add so today there's about one billion dollars that goes each year into concessional finance for emerging markets in the clean energy so we're talking about an 80 to 100 fold uh increase what are we doing well we're as Makhtar said we're working a lot to mobilize private investors through various means like securitization like upfront platforms co-investments another thing we're doing that Makhtar mentioned in the very beginning of his points is looking hard at what risk is out there so we definitely have a view that a lot of private investors are misjudging the true risk of investing in emerging economies one way to solve that is to make public the data of gyms this consortium of DFI's where we have 20 years of returns on investment projects but another thing we're doing is looking at our own experience over time so I'll give you an example from blended finance for micro and small businesses that we call the base of the pyramid program when we started we started giving pooled first loss guarantees of 40 percent on these portfolios of loans to asemies well over time we found that losses weren't very high so now that's been reduced to 25 to 30 percent so as we get more experience we see how we can minimize the amount of concessional finance needed in the form of guarantees and other instruments to attract private capital and so this experience by IFC and other DFI's I think will be critical and making sure that we're really getting the most out of every dollar of donor funding that we have maybe I also on the on the on something that we've been talking a lot about is is on the demand side we talked about the general utilities but you have a lot of sectors you have become more electrified one of them is EV. EV is no more an issue of more advanced economy is becoming more and more of a project which are financed in the developing countries and even to the lower level of transportation for instance it's not only SUV or cars but for instance we are currently financing in India three leaders which are EV vehicles for the last a mile so reconciling the social dimension of what we are doing with electricity production is something very important because this is a part of the overall conversation of SDG7. Thank you very much for those answers I think we've just got time for one or two more questions before we wrap up are there any more in the room yes please go ahead sorry could you press again I my fault I pressed my button again could you mind pressing the microphone button one more time I think it's okay Anne Cheviard from the Figuero a question different many countries many countries in developing developing countries have many resources in hydrocarbon and of course it they ask to leave this resource and they have sorry it's difficult to ask them to leave this resource in the ground so what do how do you respond to that what is your strategy in fact we are preparing a report for COP28 on this very issue because COP28 takes place in one of the countries where there's a lot of firepower and resources and our chief economist Tim Gutt is in charge of this Tim would you like to share some of the thoughts on that please so one of the points that we have made very regularly in our own investment analysis and also in the world energy outlook is that we need to be very focused on building up the new clean energy economy and that means all of the issues that we've discussed today and that the amount that you will then need in terms of fossil fuel investment will depend on the success you have in meeting the demand for energy services in a sustainable way and so the more rapidly we are able to achieve the sorts of things that we've talked today you know that will then depend on that will then shape the the the residual requirement for investment in oil and gas in in particular and and many of you will be familiar with some of the conclusions that we reached when we looked at a 1.5 degree stabilization in in global average temperatures and the dramatic nature of the of the implications that there has for fossil fuel demand and that said we also recognize that developing emerging economies they have a variety of energy needs not just in the power sector where technologies are already mature and but i think it was also already mentioned by managing director and there's a big need also for expansion of manufacturing all of the energy intensive goods that go into building up the infrastructure of a modern state the cement the steel and the scale of urbanization in many countries particularly in Africa over the coming decades does mean a quite significant increase in in in the requirement for those energy intensive goods and then that sense clean fuels but also natural gas has a has a role to play there and so we are sensitive to the different contours of that discussion and but let's not imagine that you know the situation that we're in today particularly after the global energy crisis suddenly creates a an opening for very large long-term new fossil fuel projects i think the the indications from the market are that there are risks associated with those and they need to be borne in mind by established producers but also by emerging producers as well thank you very much tim i think so we have just two more questions in the zoom and and i think that will be the the last ones we have time for one from nicko becket uh from climate table uh you mentioned a variety of reforms in developing and emerging countries that are needed to attract private investments how long will it take to implement these reforms do we have this time in the fight against the climate crisis and then one from risha shama uh from the economic times in india um who starts with a kind of a statement an assertion and trade protectionism measures by developed world uh i guess developed world countries in new green energy technologies poses a threat to countries which have abundant natural sources uh of renewables uh does that therefore hamper climate mitigation efforts um so is the question on the reforms uh and then a question on uh you know i guess the the the new industrial plans in various economies around the world um and how that uh hurts or hampers um mitigation efforts um i don't know if uh mr deop you'd like to speak about the reforms perhaps i mean reforms are very specific to countries because the reform are based on the political economy and the social contract that you have in a society therefore uh it's difficult to say the pace at the reform and secondly signature conditions are very different there are some countries who have already made a certain type of reform in a certain area i haven't made reform in certain other areas so they will have a different challenge a different challenge and i can illustrate uh uh that some country for instance have no have no problem on the ownership of of of assets and they are very comfortable to have ownership assets which depend which will come from every part of the world or the country have some restriction on these some countries have a clear policy on on access or uh some countries have reached already uh 100 percent access and some country are at 17 percent access so depending on this condition you have a different set of reform and different of question and the if you look at the the the point that team made in his presentation by emphasizing that expenditure and uh we are needed both on the public and private side and the dfi side and that's what it illustrates it is a diversity of reform the diversity of need depending on the nature of the country the state of development and the and the particular story so i cannot give a generic answer on on the pace but what i can tell you is that there is urgency and there is a sense of emergency and everybody is pushing and that emergency has been reflective in the world by using instruments like the jetp which was a way to to to pull resources from the international community to look at the the priority of some countries you have the nbc's which are the what the the country nationally determined as a way forward and these nbc's a big part of the nbc's are looking at the energy sector as being a way and they articulate what is the path for them to be able to to to reach out uh lastly uh uh uh Fatih has been really a leader in bringing inclusion in the around the table where the decisions are made of more and more developing countries more emerging countries so that the world can understand the particular constraints and complexities that some of the low-income countries are facing in this transition and i think that will be part of the conversation we understand also to understand the question coming from india that there are some some efforts that are made from some emerging economies to be part of the supply chain of manufacturing being to climate change and renewable electricity i know for instance that india to talk about india has what they call the dli which are the bli the performance link indicator whereby if a company meets a certain number of criteria the incentives which are put by the indian government to support the development of this particular manufacturing sector they have it i know in battery sectors they are looking at electrolyzers they are looking at it so this is good news it means that we will have a geographically diversified source of of production that will be available to countries and ifc is working with each of the countries to be able to look at the opportunity that will be allowing us to increase production and to come and to come back to the points that were made earlier by team we need to diagnose the silver bullet it would be a lot of code action on various sectors that we allow us to really make the strides that we would like to make if i may add two points here jeter yeah okay thank you so i completely agree with mark in terms of reforms the countries the host countries developing countries have to make reforms for the investment framework how they can attract the capital but also building the the capital markets sound capital markets at home but there is another part of the equation is the reform is the international financial architecture and i think it's a very urgent reform and i am thankful to president macron to call this meeting here the day after tomorrow and and thursday in order to make sure that there is a move to change the international financial architecture as it stands now it doesn't work we will see after this meeting and the other steps taken by the international community whether it will work whether it will be helpful to address the climate crisis debt crisis and other crisis so we need reforms both ways for the trade issues yes there are some countries from united states the inflation reduction act to as mcdonald mentioned in the india pli the production link incentives in europe we have japan indonesia are coming we hope that these policies there are mainly industrial policies linked with the trade policies are designed in a way that they do not hamper the penetration of technology but provides an intensive cooperation among the countries so that the cost comes down and the penetration of clean energy technologies go higher so trade policies are good as long as they give a boost to clean energy technology the deployment around the world thank you very much dr bill and mr diop for those final answers i'm afraid that's all we got time for today if any journalists do have questions that didn't get answered during the q&a that you'd like to follow up on we invite you to reach out to our press office and we'll get back to you as soon as we can a reminder that all of the material for today is embargoed until six a.m. and tomorrow morning wednesday the 21st of june thank you to very much to all of our speakers and thank you very much to you journalists for attending here in person and via zoom thank you and goodbye