 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Tomorrow that's the 26th of November, there's going to be a massive strike across India around 200 to 250 million workers are going to participate. The strike has been called by 10 Central Trade Union Confederations. It's the first major strike to be held during the pandemic and it'll also be joined by farmers organizations. In fact, farmers from across Delhi are preparing to gather right now to come and blockade Delhi as well. And this shows the amount of anger that is right now there among the workers, among the farmers, among the people against the policies of the Modi government. And to talk more about this as well as tomorrow's strike, we have with us AR Sindhu, the National Secretary of the Center for Indian Trade Unions. Thank you so much for joining us. My first question was regarding the strike itself. So, like I said, this is being, the strike is being held at a very difficult time during the pandemic. There are a lot of restrictions. The case numbers have been going up and down. So could you maybe talk a bit about what the Center for Indian Trade Unions, other unions actually been doing to mobilize people on the ground. You can see that even during the pandemic, even on the issue of COVID and the related activities itself, we were on the streets. Many times we were supposed to be on the streets. So it's a different situation and a difficult situation. But during the last seven months that we have been able to reach out to the masses. And the good thing is that even without the leaders able to go to the people, the workers themselves are taking the lead in this struggle. That is a special thing about this strike. And then the physical meetings, of course, is also there at the ground level. But we are utilizing the social media and other medium also, but the normal way of going and reaching out to the people. That is the most important thing which we are doing and the anger and the distress in the public that itself is creating an enabling atmosphere to have more participation. People are approaching the leaders. People are approaching the trade unions and other organizations with their problems and they are ready to fight. That is the situation. So we are using all the traditional leaflets, posters and wall writings that also there door-to-door campaign at the workplaces and the factory. All these things are also happening and we are using a lot of social media also to reach out to the workers as well as to the public. And in this context, you mentioned the struggles of the past few months in relation to the pandemic also. So we talked about this earlier too, but especially what we have seen is during the pandemic factories have been shut, production has really been slowed down, workers have been laid off and really economic activity is still not resumed. So could you maybe also talk a bit about what the situation of a majority of workers across the country is right now, vis-à-vis the pandemic and the production. It's an unprecedented job losses and the statistics is alarming that around 14 crore or so people lost and the income loss also. Even if there is not a job loss, there are places where the workers are working but without any allowance or any wages. So that is also happening and there is a large scale wage cuts and there is a DFR is even in the public sector and the government services also. So this is a situation across and the huge job losses and the distress and even the actual hunger that is a situation here and the migrant labour at the just seen very much there. And this is a very case of a distress situation in the country. It's an alarming situation. There are large scale of hunger deaths also and even the suicides are also happening in a large scale. This is a situation vis-à-vis the people of the countries. Absolutely. And of course, one of the main provocations for this strike has been the labour courts as well and these labour courts were implemented. The discussion has been going on for a long time. Of course trade unions have been opposing it, but they were also implemented amid this situation of distress that you talked about. And it is obviously the courts are quite horrifying for lack of better word because they as anti-workers can be imagined. So could you talk about what kind of an impact these courts are likely to have or having as well? You see the one of the labour courts have been passed even much earlier before the pandemic itself, the wage court. And even during the pandemic in the first quarter itself, during the pandemic that in many of the state governments, there was an advisory from the central government that the labour laws has to be terminated temporarily or in long term. And many places there was a virtual ban for the labour law implementation during even the lockdown period. And then the other three labour courts along with the farm ads that they have brought in the parliament session and without any democratic process within the parliament also they have bullied these labour laws. And the basic rights, basic democratic rights which is there in the constitution of the country, the freedom of association and collective bargaining itself is at stake. It's almost impossible for going for a strike with the conditions put it in the labour code, in the IR code. And then formation of a union also and there is a draconian provision to withdraw all of the registration of a trade union which is totally anti-democratic which is a no provision they have brought in. And then the minimum wages that has been that the norms have been totally redefined in a such a way that it's a paltry of 4,800 rupees or so will be as per the new definition the minimum wages will be. And then the working hours, there is a drastic increase and in the working hours, even in the overtime, it's a human right violation as well. The aid of a work is a human right and this is that you are extending it to 12 and more hours and with it with an administrative order you can increase it to any type. And even that it's a human right for the overtime limit also that has been extended from 75 to 125 hours per week and per quarter then in addition to that there can be an extension to that. These are the basic things that they have done away with. And then there is a last large number of categories of workers have been out of the purview of their labour codes. The unorganised labour which the government is propagating that we have included but large chunk of unorganised workers even the agriculture workers totally they are out of the purview of any labour laws. Then the scheme workers none of them are included the domestic workers. There is a large and then the applicability of the labour laws that is there that the limit of a factory the definition of the applicability that that has been done away with and even the lockout and that also the provision earlier which the provision with the applicability that has been done away with that means there are laws and it is not applicable to anyone. So these are definition of the worker also there interchangeably used in that so many tactics they have utilized so there is almost there is no labour law in practice it is there in the country. So this is a very draconian step this is endangering our democracy itself. So because the democracy itself has come into existence out of the struggle for the work and the freedom of association and also the labour laws at the same time. So the labour slide right to the farmers right to the land and what they can cultivate and they are right for the price. So that has also been done away. So the democracy itself is endangered. So this is the situation then the other things are also there with the privatization the basic rights basic entitlements of the people have been totally now no more existent. So this is the situation where whether we want to save our democracy. That is the question before the country. Like his substances is also it's not. I think many of the trade unions have also pointed out that this is not just about the demands of workers and farmers regarding their sectors but a larger struggle for democracy itself. And all this is happening even while the big capitalists and the big corporates are making unprecedented profits there. Profits are increasing the network is increasing at a record level also shows the policy direction of the Modi government. Yeah that is also it's a it's a very obscene situation that is a word I think that we can use it. So when the people the migrant labourers without water they were dying on the streets that the richest man in the country was earning 92 crore rupees per hour per day. So this is the kind of the siphoning of the people's money to the corporates and now the country it's defense system that is sport everything even the productive capacity of the country is handed over to the corporate. This is the thing is happening and the purchasing power of the people is totally eliminated. So what is going to happen is that the crisis of the capital is it is going to be aggravated and then there will be poverty deaths and unprecedented situation will be facing families may maybe also be there. So this is the country is heading to such a means biggest crisis or the bigger crisis it is going to. Absolutely right in this context I also wanted to ask you about an aspect you mentioned earlier which is regarding the scheme workers or the Anganwadi workers for instance, the majority of the women of course who also face we've been protesting for many years but who during the pandemic have also really been on the front lines of making sure that services are provided to people but have really not received any benefits either so they will also be participating in the strike in a big number I believe so could you describe what their situation has been also. Yeah yeah definitely there will be one of the biggest chunk of workers who will be on the streets tomorrow, but you see that this is the Anganwadi workers and Asha workers and the midday meal workers. These are the biggest chunk of the scheme workers around 60 lakhs or so total. So they are there providing the basic amenities to the people it is the nutrition, the food security assuring the food security and the health services. In the health sector the Anganwadi workers also were involved the Asha workers especially they were not even provided with the masks or sanitizers and they were asked to do the COVID duty and large number of people have died also and they were affected by corona without they are at the bottom level of the entire hierarchy in the health sector so they are the frontline workers without them they could not have addressed the government could not have addressed the entire pandemic and reach out to the people. So these workers were not even given the basic safety we are nothing to talk about their working conditions it is a paltry amount what they are getting and even during the pandemic that they were not getting that even that their their allowances even the Asha workers because the normal other health sector services were almost stopped so they were not getting even their allowances in that way. So this is the situation and they but still they were fighting the pandemic as well as they were fighting for their own rights in many of the states they were there were very big struggles including strikes and they could get some of these things from the government also but unfortunately the central government in its packages there is nothing for the workers frontline workers even in the pandemic situation even at this health sector there is nothing about their work conditions and their importance in the situation. And in the Anganwadi and the midday mill workers it is they are the people who are providing the nutrition ensuring the food security but they are also even the there is not a single paisa allotment to have an increase in even the food security the food grains despatched to the beneficiaries the children of the country. So then there is nothing to talk about their wage increase or anything. So this is one of the reasons it is not only for their right for the minimum wages and social security even to save the schemes and make it a permanent basic service to the country they are on the streets they will be there as very much in the frontline of the tomorrow strike. And finally just wanted to ask you a question both about the nature of organizing itself and also the joint organizing with the farmers so we've seen this earlier in the past couple of strikes also they've been combined actions. And now despite the challenges posed by the pandemic workers and farmers are coming together again workers also from a variety of sectors a lot of the public sectors also informal sectors as you pointed out. So, could you talk generally a bit also about the kind of joint mobilization that is taking place against the Modi government. You see that when the farm ordinances also came, we've been see the workers were on the streets for their rights even during the pandemic for the safety and the ration the migrant labor sold these questions. We started as early in April itself, but the farmers also because there was no procurement there was no transportation with those issues they came out on the streets they also were on the struggles, but then these farm ordinance and then the also the state governments imposing all the doing away with the labor acts, so they that also has brought in a very in a situation where they were having their struggles on the policy issues as well, not only on the immediate demands. So they are the farm ordinance also then the farmers from on from 9th of August, there was a started a joint activities in practice at that. And there was a tremendous response and this time earlier also we were having joint struggles. And during the as you said that during the last few years there is a joint activities and join struggles and even the strike the person reverse supporting their organizations. But this time the slogan of worker percent unity that has catch the imagination of the working people, and they are at the grass root level they are coming together. Even you can see the in the struggles in Punjab also, and which is forcing the political forces also to give the slogans of worker percent unity. That is the beauty of this, this pandemic period struggles. And then there this 23rd and 25th of September the farmers organizations and the trade union school that has witnessed that the trade unions called on 23rd September was joined by the peasant organizations and the 25th of September that was a marvelous situation that where all the trade unions and even the workers joining in mass with the peasantry. So even even now you can see that there is a big repression started even two, three days back itself that in started in Haryana, the large scale are arrest of the farmers leaders because they have also called a 26th and 27th. So they are there you can see that from yesterday on early hours that they arrest process started they were selectively arresting the farmers leaders because they want to stop the deli chalo. But here you can see the entire trade union movement in Haryana they were on the street in protest against these arrests and even today you can see that many places they are sitting in. That is the peasantry and the working class coming together and even the other sections of the society also the students, because the one of the demands is the new education policy to withdraw the new education policy that is also one of the demands of this movement. So, and the youth, the employment and employment question. These are all the basic demands of all sections of the society has been raised in this right. So this is really going to be a people strike, and this is going to be making a very significant change in the people's movement also because the workers and persons at the grass root level are coming together even today there is protest there is already a road blockade because actually the government has stopped and they are unconstitutionally the Haryana government you see that they have no business to stop workers going it is a passage only. So they are stopping the peasantry to come to Delhi. So this is none of their business. So but the BJP governments at the center has directed and there is stopping and arresting and in Odisha they have imposed asthma. So this kind of repression also is helping the people to come together in a very much bigger way. So that is going to be a big success of this strike. And this is going to be the beginning of another counterattack we have given a call for resistance and defense. So in the defense we will be scaling up our struggles. So in the coming days you can expect that there will be bigger struggles. Thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you. That's all we are time for today keep watching.