 We know that this was a long day, the first day of our ArtsLink assembly. Today we had different, various, but interconnected topics to discuss, to think about. The final section today is titled Private Institutions. It's not about institutions and not only private ones, because this section is actually quite a big blessing for me, because it deals with the 30 years of Ukrainian independence, thanks to which we could appear here and realize our talents. Sometimes in my head I run alternative history scripts. What would have happened if 30 years ago, as full-scale invasion at the fall of Soviet Union, had happened back then? Probably we would not have been here today. The question is how the civil society in these 30 years have been created. We want to talk about the interconnections in between all the actors of the civil society. I'd like to give the floor to Mihailo Luboki from Islatsia Isolation, from Donetsk, who will present his institution. I will actually have a very similar question to everyone. Please tell me something more about your activity before and after the full-scale invasion. In the case of Mihailo, I'm not talking about the full-scale invasion on the 24th of February, but the spring of 2014. Can you hear me? Yes, thanks so much for inviting me here. We need definitely more such events in Ukraine as well. The last eight years I've been participating in conferences and talking about what happened after the 24th of February. The focus has switched into how much we have been doing, not how bad the situation is. We're not talking much about isolation fear, but I believe that everybody who's here knows about the fund. It was created in 2010, which was originally located in a former insulation materials factory in Donetsk. I'm really happy to see a lot of people who created such projects within the activity of Islatsia Isolation Fund. We can see that our activity reaches all corners of Ukraine. Our organization was captured by the Russian invaders and they turned it into a prison. They carried out tortures even now as we sit and discuss. From time on, we continued our cooperation. We opened a creative hub in Kiev. We worked in the east of Ukraine also abroad. Our cultural activity has been connected with many, many different sectors and we were dealing with decentralization. We also introduced a bus which roamed over Ukraine and was included in many other projects all around Ukraine. Our bus actually stopped in Soledar and we wanted to continue our work in the building of a local culture center. Unfortunately, regular army forces of the Russian Federation destroyed the building. Since February 24th, we switched our activity into supporting a variety of organizations. This year we were supposed to carry out a huge number of projects including the Soledar project. We decided to allocate all the funds to support Ukrainian cultural activists. Thanks to our connections we were able to build new communities in Ukraine. We have been cooperating and helping with humanitarian aid. We carried out a European Union project in Ukraine as well. A lot of communities make use of our support including welcoming refugees, internal refugees. We deal with cultural projects in Ukraine and we disseminate information on what's happening in Ukraine. We promote the support for Ukraine as well. In the summer we carried out a lot of activities along with our partners. Various cultural centers carried out activities with fundraising activities as well. We also carried out some grants, so a wide array of activities. Our next speaker is joining us online. Her name is Borzena Polinska. Please, the floor is yours. Good evening. Can you hear me well? Yes, we can hear you well. I'd like to say sorry because I'm actually right now in a confined house because it provides a generator which supplies electricity. Unfortunately, I believe you can hear some background noise along with the voices of children but it is what it is. I'd like to wish you a good evening. It's a real pity that I could not be physically in Warsaw. But I can see plenty of familiar faces in the audience which makes me really happy. I'll present a brief introduction of the institution I represent. This is the Art Center in Lviv. We wanted to inaugurate our institution which was supposed to happen in August this year. We planned a five-month program with a curator group, two people of which are present right now in the audience. These are the curators we have been cooperating as well. Smaller projects as well that we carried out starting up in 2017, even in 2015. But on February 24th everything stopped, all the processes, all the plans were suspended. After February 24th, many institutions in Lviv, quite obviously for them. We created quite a big hub and most of the team transferred into a humanitarian mode. I don't want to elaborate on this because there are many stories behind and I believe I would just echo your experience. I'd like to say some words about our programs, a private institution as we are. We enjoyed the privilege to be able to reorient our activity according to current needs. After two months, following the full-scale invasion, we created a program, Mitziu Vini, an artist in war, which has been ongoing until now. Our goal was to support artists who needed such help. We provided them with individual grants to carry out works and we supported about 500 artists. However, our capacity was not as big. This was the first program which we managed to reorient, re-plan and make another program which we carried out. We called it Navigation. It is connected with supporting artists who were relocated to Lviv after the full-scale invasion. In total, 17 artists joined the program. Within a few months, we created an integration program in cooperation with other institutions. We also offered other grants and we re-purposed our office into a workshop. Using such opportunity, I'd like to announce that in December, we organized a small pop-up exhibition you're all invited. Generally speaking, what happened after the full-scale invasion, we had to re-evaluate everything. Myself and my colleagues do what is important today. What felt such a need to connect it with how we as an institution can support people who suffered and who have been afflicted by the situation. Practically speaking, most projects and programs that we have been carrying out in visual and theatrical spheres was connected one way or another with current situations and people. So it was aimed at disseminating information or providing support to people in need and the activity and participation in many conferences. Lastly, I would like to emphasize, maybe this question will resurface again. Personally, lately I have felt an unusual reaction that we need to fight the silence because this feeling of myself is very difficult. And the only thing I can actually do is to act and not articulate what is inside of me because it's really difficult for me to express myself. Thanks a lot Bozhena for this presentation and we are trying to overcome the silence and I'm inviting Miss Osatka to speak about your institution. Good afternoon. I hope you can hear me. First of all, this event is really a unique chance both for institutions and communities to ask themselves who are we at this stage. Sometimes we won't receive answers that will satisfy all of us. And during communication with our colleagues we always see such moments where you see some points to which you have to pay attention. And therefore we thank a lot to all the organizers for this opportunity to be immersed into this project. And we have such a project, Museum of Kharkiv School of Photography, and we are a civil organization. But why? I was not taking part in the previous panel because the basis of our museum is a private collection. This is a private collection of photographs by Sergey Lebedinsky. And we first presented information about ourselves in November 2014 and we started implementing the project that was mentioned so many times. And during all the dozens of years of Ukraine's independence we have not created the Museum of Photography. Let's look at the situation in Lithuania, in Poland, in Czech Republic. All these countries with the conscious cultural policy, these countries have their own museums of photography. And Ukraine really has a few centers who have very big capacities for this. But we have not created the Museum of Contemporary Art and we have not created the Museum of Photography. And therefore this museum was sort of a need and we realized that it was getting more and more mature. And since the 60s years of the 20th century we realized that there is a gap. And therefore we have to do something and we have to create some institution like this. And therefore Sergey, during his work, his practice, during his communication with his colleagues, photographers, he saw tons of archives that were just on the shelves covered with dust and he saw that the time is running. And therefore he saw that there is a need to preserve these archives and therefore it pushed him to start collecting these photographs. And therefore in 2014 he gathered a team of photographers and of specialists in art. And his colleague Vladislav Krasnoshchok became... And this is an example of our website, of our database on our website. Except for this, this collection should be resolved through some exhibition activities. We didn't have our own exhibition space and therefore we worked as partners with different institutions, both in Kiev and in Odessa and in Kharkiv. And we had a wonderful partnership with the Kamin Gallery that was forced to be closed. And of course even before the escalation of war. And we are making eight, yeah, making eight exhibition projects. It's not that much, but we have resources for such amount of work and other comment. Why and how we are financing the museum. Sergey, he's a photographer, he's also an engineer. And his family and he, they are working in family business. And the existence of this museum is financed by Sergey, by this business. And therefore we should scale our work to such activities. And no one of us in the team is not focused on strictly museum activities. So for Sergey works in business, I am a teacher in Kharkiv Design Academy. Nadia is working on her dissertation. And so the idea of this museum, it really highlighted our life. And we were investing so much efforts into this museum. But as we cannot be concentrated fully on this program activities, on this cultural activities, therefore we are very open to some offers, to some invitations. When someone calls to us and asks for some materials. And quite a lot of works were bought from us for exhibitions in Lithuania, in Arts Arsenal. During Odessa for the days, we cooperated with the iZone and organized an exhibition there, after receiving a burdened fly prize. So we see a museum as sort of a fountain. And everyone can drink out of this fountain. Anyone who is interested in joining these photography activities, we are very open to partnership. And of course, how else can we present our Ukrainian photography the most efficient way, according to our experience, what then our public editorial activities we publish, different photo books. We also publish researches on Ukrainian, or history of Ukrainian photography. This is one of the books that we published. And we also translated the book into Ukrainian camera Lucida. And this book should have been printed at 8 o'clock in the morning, on the 24th of February. But we started printing it only in April in Kiev. And it was very difficult time for Kiev too. But we had real heroes who helped us in Kiev. And so most of our projects are related to, with finishing our previous projects, we are preparing translation of Benjamin, of some other publications, that will add up to Ukrainian humor to our different educational projects. And we have heard a lot about education. And we do hope that we will contribute to improving educational processes in Ukraine. And if Katya mentioned, if I'm not mistaken, Katya Rachinka said this, we feel that our speed is a little bit slower, but we did it in order to preserve our energy. Because the museum doesn't need to be created very quickly. And therefore we are taking our time and we are not speeding up. We want to do everything on a very good level. I'd like to give the floor to Kiev. We are joined by Ksenia Malik from Pinchuk Arts Center. Please tell me if it was about you and your institution. Good evening. I hope you can hear me. I'm actually right now in the Pinchuk Arts Center. I hope to see the slides as well. When it comes to how the focus of work changed, as opposed to our colleague Sasha, I can say that we sped up within Ksenia. We cannot see any slides, unfortunately. I'm very sorry. I don't know why I have tested this and it worked. I'm very sorry. I'm not really familiar with this software. Very well. Now we can see it. Our speed is actually aimed at the international scene in the Pinchuk Arts Center. So I will elaborate on this later on. But right now we're carrying out an exhibition in Cologne in Germany. In collaboration also with the Museum of Antwerp. I think you still have one week to visit this exhibition. In addition, we have added an international department in our organization. So we have been carrying out our current activities and we added the international department. We also have been developing a documentary path, so we support doing documentaries. Here you can see some of the objects during the exhibitions in Cologne. Here we also supported Ukrainian artists. The fundamental change since February 24 is speed as well as connecting all social connections. So that we were trying to stimulate the cooperation with international organizations. We tried to stimulate to adapt our program to find space for the promotion of Ukrainian art. And I must say that we managed to do it and we have been continuing it. This is actually an exhibition in the summer when Faith Moves Mountains at the Pinchuk Arts Center. It opened in Kiev in July. The magnificent feature of this exhibition is that it was only possible in wartime. It was the first time that the European Museum had provided funds and artifacts to a country undergoing a war. It was more than partnership but more of a sign for us so that they trust us. They have faith in us and it was a gesture of accepting Ukraine in the European family. This partnership inspires us a lot and supports us. It wasn't easy in terms of transporting the collection as it was impossible to secure this collection from accidents due to war. Another collection is Russian War Climes. It was a site-specific exhibition. Previously it was called Russian House so we rebranded it and we made it a real Russian House. Depicting the real Russian activity, its real face. Essentially it's a documentary project with videos, with photos documenting Russian war crimes in Ukraine. This project is actually on tour so we exhibited it in politically dense situations and locations. For example in the NATO office in Brussels, also in the Euro Parliament in Brussels. Yesterday it opened in the Parliament of Buildings in London. We tried to make it really current and to keep this angle on the project current. As you know I'm responsible for a research platform in the Ukrainian contemporary art. We were able to reorient our activity onto the people who record photographically and to create an exhibition. Also along with videos which is quite a novelty. It's a brand new experience, brand new direction for us which needs an extreme speed as well and flexibility. As it is really difficult to organise everything and connect the dots. So every single time when we remove and present the house, the exhibition in a different place, we need to disassemble and reassemble everything piece by piece. In Basel this year we presented a partner program with Daria Shetsova. It was a special unique video program also at the Basel Theatre which we presented. I will not show everything because there are just too many projects and not enough time. Currently we have been assembling the exhibition Objednani Connected. I wanted to share with my colleagues that I wanted to show you our gem in our collection. This is a special carry, you can see it on the left. Our technical team were very proud to have them because they created it. It's a mobile four wheeler with a metal construction with some lighting. This device can provide light to the walls without much of electrical supply. We continue installing such devices and such challenges we experience every single day. It is a kind of a quest for us as we need to find a novel solution every single time. So we feel that every single day we gain new experience. Another example is our construction team is assembling the device and it's another alteration of the same device. It is powered by batteries so it can work without electrical supply. In this slide you can see the process of assembling with a headlamp, again without any need for electrical power. It happens sometimes that I cannot reach some kind of artist. I understand that not every single task is possible to be carried out. But as I look at my construction team who without any rush continue working even when electrical power is out, they can continue working regardless. So I understand they also face huge challenges but at the same time it provides a lot of stimulation and a lot of happiness. This process, organizing exhibitions, somebody can say well maybe it's not the time for it. Maybe you should wait, maybe you should be doing something that you can do. But I believe we should develop, we should help reflect what they feel, what they go through and in an artistic form. Obviously our plans and strategies have changed. We understand that next year we will be working differently. Technical issues is one thing but the topics is quite another. So we really need to propagate the Ukrainian ideas abroad. We understand that we cannot stop and this emergency regime provides only one exit. We need to make it a policy, create some normative framework so that resources are provided and create small catharsis regardless of whether there is light or the light is out. And it also provides us a lot of experience for which I'm really thankful and we can build upon that. Thank you very much. Dear colleagues, I'm happy that you give us signals that everything is okay, that you're alive, despite all the adversity, it adds, actually all these problems add to your testimony. We hear voices from other regions and we understand that you continue work in spite of, in the face of adversity and we understand that artistic, cultural professionals choose consciously this path. Everybody does whatever they can to continue working so that the society can continue existing. Every single time you help changes the slogan from stand with Ukraine into win with Ukraine. I believe you, it makes me think maybe because we're in the center of Warsaw in the Wyazdowsky Castle it made me remind of a novella of Stanislaw Lem called by digital education. There is a theme about a young person who receives some sped up education and they defrost to people from the past. So one of the defrosted people tells a story about his life that he used to be a musician in orchestra that played without continued playing despite playing in front of a cannibal. So when he took a break it would be possible that this cannibal would devour him. That's why he continued playing. This phantasmagoric story may sound quite impossible. This cannibal actually said that he started crying because he doesn't like human meat and he's actually vomiting with this meat. You must understand about the author of this novella Stanislaw Lem. He spent his childhood in Lviv. Right now we are experiencing true threats to humanity but still despite these threats we continue our work and create culture. Let's talk about the Ukrainian culture right now. I understand we do not have influence on security, on safety but what do you think you're missing the most? Who do you miss the most? I know that all your teams are kind of dispersed but how can you make it possible to create these connections? I'd like to give the floor to Mahayla who waited really long for his speech. You have mentioned it quite a lot of times and it's very difficult to react to what is going on all the time. And therefore we all lack time to make some more meaningful projects or some projects that would require long thinking. But still I think that these are the times we are living in and after the victory we will have enough time to look at everything with the microscope and to zoom in and see all the details of the things and what is missing, what we lack. I think if you don't have enough capacities of the cultural sector because in my opinion all people who are able to do something they are doing this we are working enormously. We know that it's very important and we know that a lot depends upon us. And at the same time if there are new projects, some new challenges, some new ideas then it's difficult to find new contractors, new people who will execute this, implement this. And Alevtina mentioned it in the morning that we have a lot of orders, we have a lot of connections, a lot of ties because our colleagues from abroad and Ukrainian colleagues they just do not have such a large pool of people to work with and therefore it's also related to educational aspects. So if we are speaking about the problem that we faced before the full-scale invasion, problems with financing, then the situation is much better. Although it sounds like a paradox, we have so many foundations who are open to giving us finances and it's not that difficult to raise some money but to find people who are going to do this is quite a challenge. Now we are giving floor to our online speakers. Yes, I can hear you well and I hope that you can hear as well too. Yes, absolutely. I think that I can support this idea. Really there is not enough time for us and on the one hand this time is speeded up, everything is accelerated and we have so many opportunities, so many suggestions and we do not have enough time to react profoundly to them but the time that we have due to all these obstacles we are facing this time becomes a little more prolonged and so sometimes we have a day with some specific number of hours and this day just becomes shorter and we do not have enough time to react and do what we want and sometimes it seems to me that when I'm looking at my colleagues, when I'm looking at myself it seems to me that all our work that we are doing despite all the difficulties that it's sort of therapy, it's sort of proving that we can do this despite the challenges and despite the life going on around us. I have not mentioned in my previous speech about one of the projects and this is a project in form of art residency within very big international project Magic Art and starting this year we focused on the topic we are together and a few curators who are also curators of arts link, they cooperated with us in this art residency and for a few weeks this year we invited parents with their children to take part in different artistic activities, theatrical activities and visual arts and we implemented this project because we realized that we really like this time and we don't have enough time to talk to each other, to be together and sometimes to ask each other how are you doing so we are trying to motivate the artists whom we engaged and we provided some therapeutic practices to the team members, to participants and it was a unique way for them just to stop and to think what they are going through in some playable form by engaging themselves in some interesting activities This is one of the aspects and another aspect that I would like to share with you answering this question we see a very bad burning out of people in our sector we saw that quite a lot of people left us during this short period of time after the full scale invasion started due to many various reasons and our industry artistic and cultural our activities do not have very specific results sometimes and sometimes we just do not feel the sense of what we are doing if we compare it for example to some social activities there is a real need and there is a real answer to this and it seems to me that we sometimes need these moments to stop and just talk to each other to feel ourselves, to feel other people that they are in the same situation and again say out loudly that what we are doing is really needed in a long term perspective and the projects that I mentioned before that have the social aspect support to artistic environment or to artists who are very located to live or who are in very difficult life conditions so for us for people who are working in the artistic industry this is sort of a need for us to support them, to help them we feel at ease when we are supporting them and we realize that everything that what we are doing not only in long perspective but in shorter perspective that it makes sense because we see the results of this work right now and this support and these ties and connections that we are trying to have with our colleagues abroad I can say to you and I will be very sincere we need people here, right here and sometimes our wish is to create something we have a lot of ideas but we do lack people, we don't have enough people to do that and this is one of the biggest challenges and we do not have an answer to this we are just reacting reactively every time we face a challenge but we don't have long term answer to this so I think we want so much and we are trying to use different ways to find subcontractors to finish the space we do hope that our project will be implemented in the end thanks for your ideas, thanks for the diagnosis and I am sure that this is a bigger picture of Ukrainian society during the war times and if you speak to medical personnel they will tell to us that we don't have enough people we are burnt out and it started even during the Covid times you speak to railway specialists and even the cemetery director told me that most of all I lack people, I don't have enough people to do my work and this is a problem that will not be overcome until we have our victory but except for this there are other problems and so I am giving a floor to Alexandra Satcha who is going to present her point of view when we are speaking about challenges that every one of us faces I think that we are trying to find the meaning of our own activities and so we prove to ourselves that it is needed by someone and therefore when we should justify that we are spending our resources and it makes sense and we felt it very well before the evacuation of our works I can say that subconsciously we knew that the escalation of war would happen we knew about it a long time ago every time when we were speaking about buying of archives not of Kharkiv authors but when they found out that we are a private institution they were asking us but what if happens, but what happens if, if what you are very close to Russia they told Kharkiv region is not so far from Russia from the Russian border so it won't take long for tanks to reach Kharkiv so in which way are going to preserve our collection how can you prove that you are capable to preserve these archives how can we trust you and we heard in the, we felt in the air that all these talks they are becoming more and more serious and therefore my team and I had a lot of doubts whether we have to be whether we have to evacuate these works or not so by February 24th I had to make a call, I planned a call on the 21st of February to evacuate the works and how to do it but on the 24th of February I had to evacuate myself but what made us postpone this decision all the time it was Sergei's attitude he told to us that we know these answers personally we have friendship relationships with them so how can we take care of their works if we cannot help these people so during the fewest months we turned our website our Facebook page into humanitarian aid page and we forgot totally about museum activity we just posted some information here are the volunteers that can drop you somewhere and only later on the initiative of another volunteer Veronika called to me and told me that I am helping to evacuate from Kharkiv the archives then we started thinking about this yes we should do it now the collection is in safety this collection was evacuated to Germany now we are able to operate but the way of operation is really related to helping our authors we are trying to propagate, popularize, promote photography via mechanisms of partnership with gallery in Paris we have a wonderful friend, Aleksandra Baviras this gallery does not sell this collection but we are uniting we are connecting collection with our authors I think this is quite a big achievement during this year so we were able to present Kharkiv School of Photography at the best fair of photography in Europe and Guardian Le Figaro Le Monde prepared articles about Kharkiv photography so they started paying attention to our art and due to such local support this author or that author becomes popular and so he receives some financial support and he can exist and this created the environment and so we used such... so these strategies help us to preserve the feeling that the people that we are working with this is our main investment, this is our main capital and so we have to cherish these ties cherish our relations with each other being in the epicenter of European history of the 21st century and fight for democracy as we understand, as we think of this situation of Iran or Taiwan but this helps us understand the grand goal for the future that we are fighting right now in Ukraine this proves that cultural area of Ukraine is expanding they are asking us okay, please tell us about yourself, who are you? Ksenia, please tell me how does this manifest itself in Pinchuk Art Center? would you say that... how would you say how does cultural area is saturated when it comes to your activity? what is missing actually, would you say? Ksenia, can you hear me? it's a real pity that we've lost you but we hope to reconnect with you again we need to wrap up so the key takeaways from today if you have any comments, please leave them for the last 10 minutes now I would like to make a final round of talks I'd like to ask people from Harkiv, Solodarodonetsk and here in Warsaw how do you understand the aim of your activity? how do you convince yourself that there is a place for us in the grand plan post victory? thank you so much indeed, as we spoke today we need to be... we need to know the answer to this question although it's really really difficult our fund has been dealing for the past few years and actually in its entirety is the democratization of the Ukrainian cultural sphere it is an important step into the future and the direction of work of everybody present in here for the development of the Ukrainian society of the future we can see how many organizations cultural activists, numerous activists of culture who dream about social changes in the communities have actually surfaced in the past eight years until 2014 everything was concentrated in Donetsk but there was no sign that in small communities such organizations would appear as we have now in every little town we have these... I mean of course after the February 24th this number was reduced but still such cultural activities, different hubs, creative hubs have been created and these are the leaders of change in the communities in our activity we want to multiply the number of such organizations in small towns we understand that in the cities you've got the money you've got the resources and you've got the people who understand how to make things happen and there is a great demand for it in big cities we work with a lot of small NGOs and this happened after the decentralization I'm speaking about the reform of decentralizing implemented by the Ukrainian government thus created new territorial communities local communities this is how actually Solidar came to being this indeed is a new town which is looking for maybe not right now but I'm confident that after our victory it will continue looking for its place the structure of its being and we've been contacting with such organizations they for example created a cultural department and they are asking us what can we do we want to learn what do you suggest we do and they need our support they are really looking into the future the future is bright for them so we really hope that this energy is concentrated also in small communities I saw Xenia move a little but I'm afraid she cannot hear us yes I can actually I can if you had a question maybe you'd like to reflect on it I was asking about the culture which is to become part of the reconstruction of Ukraine what kind of bases do you have for optimism for the arguments why culture is the margin that gradually becomes the core a phenomenon that is currently happening and contributes to the reconstruction unfortunately the connection is so bad that we cannot actually understand you in Ukrainian I'm very sorry how about you turn off video and maybe the signal will improve let's test this try turning off the video I did please repeat I will speak slowly yes now so much better thanks for your patience together with artists we can think about the future yeah I almost understood what you're talking about right now we can hear you really well right now I'm focused on the work that is created by artists for the exhibitions that we are trying to finalize until January when it comes to the future we can find solutions how to build the future and this is the main role of cultural institutions thanks so much I think I got the gist but indeed we do not need to prove that art really is important Ksenia please take the floor sorry Alexander we all understand obviously when it comes to the activity of contemporary art centers and how the future can look like and how we can shape it it's the accumulation of the reflection of the past we need to collect materials from the past to reimagine what happened until the whole tragedy we've been going through and the Ukrainian example is truly an example it is full of archetypes, symbolism that identify the community and its trajectory its efforts, endeavors and all the interdependencies between the Soviet and the non-Soviet so history needs not to be retained, saved but it needs to be reimagined and presented to the wide audience and this is why the future cannot exist without a clear vision of the past and I believe this is the goal that we set yes this is the reimagining that we need so much but can you hear us and could you bring us to the end of the discussion yes I can hear very well it's very difficult to answer this question to be honest for a number of reasons right now the current situation is so volatile that we do not keep up to comprehend what's happening with us but one thing which I understand really clearly and many people have been talking about this is that today what is happening is a great change one paradigm is being disassembled but we are building a new paradigm we have been feeling the changes we've been experiencing them and obviously art is a litmus test that is the first to react to what's happening we have been cooperating with visual arts and contemporary theatre indeed contemporary theatre is one of the types of art which can react really quickly and after the full-scale invasion not only in our area but also in our city there have been many exhibitions as a reaction to how we processed February 24 how to comprehend the stories and what is happening with us and the fixation of this state so I believe that art can record this best and to archive the stories and for many years we will still have to spend on debating, comprehending so right now what we have been experiencing is a truly unique time in history everything that we have been going through will be the bricks in the future that we are headed towards after victory I would like to add that after reflections now I understand really clearly that people of culture the professionals since the beginning of the big war have not been helping as one person but together we have been uniting people not virtually but in reality we have been contacting people in our networks and we understand that we can only save ourselves together supporting the solidarity being responsible and we aim to live, to survive, to rise up and develop together this is I believe why we will win because this is an ethical field in which there will be no egoism there will be no place for egoism and one person will develop things to another we are a promise so that our work together will enable the plant to be replanted in a different place in a different time so the diaspora 2-0 or for me even diaspora 3-0 will be created the primary diaspora happened in 1990 one decade later right now it's diaspora 3-0 because there are many examples of people who were evacuated because they needed to help other people they wanted to stay but lots of them came back to Ukraine regardless of the risks because the risks are much higher this is why today our panel makes a lot of sense and I really think to everybody my final thoughts is to ask you what you have in your head what kind of thoughts you'd like to share and the reflections of the day that is ending we have a lot of mics so we can share thanks, can you hear me? I heard the thesis many times about the lack of human resources because there are no people to join the teams have you been thinking about how this could be used for the development of the cooperation of people who went abroad how to fill the gap of human resources for us there was no difference where people are really we were not looking at the geography but we have been working online even before Covid so really it didn't matter for us where people were situated from my perspective I'm looking at the big picture of the labour market in Ukraine and outside of Ukraine moreover for some of the tasks for people outside of Ukraine it's actually ironically easier for them it's easier for them to work when they are abroad and this is why we take into consideration everybody and this is a very interesting thought that you reminded me that when I speak with my colleagues from abroad from international centres they are really surprised that Ukrainians who have come abroad most of them believe that it's just temporary they will come back that they are not going to stay there and take routes they do not want to have temporary work there because everybody believes in victory that it will happen very quick and they want to come back, return as fast as they can and take part in the Ukrainian artistic life I think it's important to talk about this that most Ukrainian cultural activists continue their work abroad Alexandra this question for us never really appeared because we have been cooperating all the time with people who were situated in all corners of the world with Olena, who is in Great Britain a designer who is in Germany and so on but we understand that it is not enough what we are lacking is a different thing that people who already produced something that we've been exhibiting in our museum and then they live their life but the problem is for people to come to Ukraine and work in Ukraine in the Ukrainian context we wanted to work until peace was reinstated for example during residency in the museum that would allow people to come into the context of the Ukrainian context so that they can continue disseminating their ideas but also come back to our institutions in a way that would be a thematic ping-pong and Ukraine would be because Ukraine currently is kind of out of sight of the Ukrainian center of attention so this is why we need to attract people's attention to Ukraine and the question is how to do it in the current circumstances Dear colleagues, we have more questions but I do not have such an intention to put someone in a comfortable position but I'm just curious part of people who are living in Ukraine they do not come back and so the question about the artworks that left the country as far as I understand it all happened quite spontaneously and it was not done according to some procedures of temporary procedures so how important this question for you have you elaborated these procedures and do you have some core forecasts how many works are going to be returned to Ukraine and how many works won't who is ready to answer Yes, I see that Ksenia wants to say something First of all, I would like to greet Valeria Shivel who is in your audience at the moment and I'm very glad that again we are cooperating we are working together so congratulations on your coming back to the institution although she is living in Berlin but I'm very glad that we became more flexible and what I would like to say I'm very grateful to those artists who are living in Europe now because it is very difficult every time, every day you have to communicate and every day you have to be an advocate, a voice I'm sure that we are going to create new institutions, new projects, new job positions but basically I think that everyone should leave up to their own principles and I'm very glad that there are so many opportunities now for well-educated people and so we will be ready we, I mean those people who are in Ukraine and who are working in Ukraine institutions in Ukraine, we are becoming more flexible previously we did not work with someone who was not here in Kiev that did not go to job but we became more flexible and I think that all of us should be flexible and we have common intellectual field and COVID taught us the new instruments to use so it's not new to us we know it all so this is a drop of optimism for you this is the last question but it doesn't mean that we have to interrupt our discussions unfortunately our speakers from Lviv and Kiev won't hear but listen to this but still we can discuss afterwards but asking your question about the fate of works that were brought I can give you an example it's an example of obtaining some independence at the beginning of the 20th century when Armenia became independent Armenians around the whole world told that they opened the museum of Ayvazovsky but there are almost no pictures of Ayvazovsky in this museum and all people from abroad, Armenians from abroad realized that this is their task to find the works of these masterpieces of this painter and nowadays this is the biggest museum and the museum is the biggest collection of Ayvazovsky pictures, paintings and why I'm telling this because it seems to me that both for Ukrainians and for foreigners it will be sort of prestige to bring back the works that we do not know about that were evacuated some time ago to some other European countries and it seems to me that there will be a trend of returning these masterpieces and using this heritage together with the museums and using the digital possibilities of sharing I think this will be a key to this problem I would like to thank all the participants and I would like to remind you that culture helps us become people who know each other we understand each other much better and we are creating a circle of solidarity so keep on helping, keep on supporting each other and taking care of each other sharing is caring and therefore we did exactly this we cared about each other today and of course we also stressed that we have to take care of ourselves so take care of yourselves, have a nice evening and have a nice evening we had a very fruitful day it was the first iteration of Artsling we have two more days ahead of us thanks a lot