 I suffered for many years with a skin problem. Then all I did is I switched the diet to grass-fed cows and the body fixed itself. Do you think from the cow's perspective, it's okay for them to be decapitated in order to help your skin issue? What's the alternative? Plant-based diet. But what happens if a plant-based diet doesn't work for you? I have tried it, but it didn't work for me. If it were like a human being in that situation, would you find an alternative? Give me your thoughts. What is it? So these are the ways that humans exploit animals for products like food and clothing and eggs and milk. It's awful, isn't it? So I'm asking people to be vegan because that's the only thing where you can live without causing these kind of rights violations. Without the consumer, these industries don't exist. Once it's in France for you and you can see, then you could see impacts. Have you seen this before? No. And why is that? Tell me. Media doesn't cover the truths. And what? And why? Why wouldn't they cover this particular one where it's to do with our food? It's a whole industry, right? So everyone's connected. And those big media food chains, they're all connected in this. They are, yeah. At the end of the day, if you have an illness, it's probably because of intake. It's probably because of food. But if the food industry is in cahoots with the medical industry and the health industry, we're all customers. So if something is messed up with you, it all is because of the same factory. They don't want to lose customers by showing these horrifying images from inside these farms and slaughterhouses, yeah? So what do they show you instead on the packaging? Tell me what you see when you go and see a pack of eggs or you go see a dairy advertisement. What do you see? You just see the clever icons because they just want you to see the nice things. So green grass and happy animals and farmers love their animals. But at the end of the day, you don't see the things that are caged animals, trials, experiments. You just don't see this. So do you think because you don't see it, moral culpability is a little different if you don't really know. But if you do know, like, let's say, you see most of the pigs and chickens here at Factory Farm, all the animals go to horrifying slaughterhouses where they have their rights of life violated for like a sandwich or a parachute or something. Now that you kind of have better awareness of it, what do you think your responsibility is as a consumer? Don't be a customer. Yeah. And in order to not be a customer, you've got to know what you eat. Yeah. The more that this is pushed in front of you, then that is clever because it helps you make the informed decision. But if you're not informed, you're misinformed. And if you're misinformed, you're just attacked by the rest of these guinea pigs. So excuse the pun. It's an information war and we've got people with vested interests and we've got people with interests, the animals' interests at heart. But you can't have vested interests, financial interests and sentient beings' interests at heart at the same time. No, you can't. They're a conflict of interests. It is huge. But that's the same thing that the media is in these pockets. All the billionaires are mates. In Australia, for example, Kevin Stokes owns Channel 7. He's also a beef tycoon. So all the media, the anti-vegan media and the meat-meat media is coming from his personal media company that he owns. It's horrific. But at the same time, they want to cause the conflicts. So it's nothing to do with you, but I'm the head of the cultural diversity in my company. And I see what the media do is those people that are oppressed. They're treating those people that are oppressed as the enemy. Malcolm X has a good quote about this. He does indeed, yeah. And those people that you believe are the enemy are not actually the enemy, but you're brainwashed in thinking that way, and then you're actually acting that way. So it's... We get it as well, vegans get it a lot. We get a lot of anti-vegan rhetoric towards us. But really, we just... We care about them. But they're saying that we want to take away the freedoms of people and this and that. But really, we just want the interests of the animals respected, as well as humans, you know? The way I deal with foods is I deal with 18-hour fasts or I deal with maybe two-day fasts or whatever it is, and then I try and eat grass-fed animals. So do you think those animals, like... Let's just say they're having a pretty good experience, a bit of well-being there. Do you think that it's okay to kill them to eat them if we don't have to? But what's the alternative? Plant-based diet. Yeah, but what happens if a plant-based diet doesn't work for you? I've seen people do something like just eat vegetables, and then they become calorie-deficit. I can tell you one of the problems. So I suffered for many years with this skin problem. Expert? Yeah, auto-immune and everything, and the doctors decided to give me an anti-suppressant for your immune system. So you're injecting yourself once a week. How can that continue? My dad had was on that for Crohn's, similar thing. Yeah, so then all I did is I switched the diet and switching the diet means that it was just purely vegetables. Purely vegetables, day in, day out. Didn't work. Then I switched to more of a protein diet, grass-fed cows, and a fast of 24 hours every now and then, and the body fixed itself. It fixed itself in under two months. Was it the fasting or the beef? Both. Did you do fasting by itself without the beef? Yeah, I did. And it didn't work? So you think there was a magical compound in the beef or something that you removed from your diet prior? I don't know. So what do you want on an arrow? What can happen with elimination diets? Well, because I see a lot of carnivores make this claim as well. So they start eating beef, and all of a sudden their eczema goes away or some issue goes away. But what they've then eliminated is about 40 other foods. You can do an elimination diet on white rice or potatoes as well, it's the same concept. You've removed whatever the aggravating food was, and then you slowly reintroduce foods. Now that doesn't mean there's a magical compound in beef because there isn't anything found in beef. You can either get from plants or a supplement. Unless you do truly believe there's something in beef that's healed you, it's something that you've removed that you don't know exactly which. Exactly. You don't know everything, but you can try to log what you're putting down to eat, and it's how your body processes it. And then it's your sleeping patterns. It's your behavior. It's your, you know, where you manage your angers and your thoughts and, you know, work. Yeah, could be in many things, but we can't like, like big claims require substantial evidence. And if you don't really know what that thing was, then we can't, the reason I'm questioning this as well is not to put you under fire because my dad had an autoimmune disease as well, and the doctors were telling him one thing, and then if it's worked for you, that's great. But at the same time, do you think it's like from the cow's perspective, it's okay for them to be decapitated in order to help your skin issue? Or would you, if it were like a human being in that situation, would you find an alternative? That's it. Would you mode more? Yeah. That's the question. Obviously, you would have to find something that works. And why would you have to, though? Because it's illegal, but let's say it wasn't illegal. Let's talk moral philosophy here. If you can't find something, so for my particular self, it's borderline that you're going to jump off a bridge. It's causing you suffering. Yeah, mental suffering. So physical suffering is one thing, mental suffering is another, and if you can't find the silver bullet, then you're in trouble. So for two years I suffered, and I thank God for COVID, because COVID meant I didn't have to go out. COVID meant I can stay indoors. I would have lost everything around me, I probably have lost my family as well. It's all about intake. Yeah, I know the big brother is there, and I know we've got to find something that works. But whether it is the vegan diet, I have tried it, but it didn't work for me. So you empathize with suffering, so you know what it's like for an animal to suffer, and you empathize, I don't know if you've ever been in a fearful situation too, like in a slaughterhouse, it's a fearful situation for those animals, and I don't know if you've ever experienced a near-death situation, but we want to preserve our lives, just like these animals do, you know? I believe that they deserve rights, and if they had rights, then we wouldn't be able to make flippant choices, like, I've got eczema, so therefore I'm going to eat a cow. Because you've probably got rid of your eczema by eating a dog. Maybe. Because you've eliminated that problem thing. Maybe, maybe, maybe it's... We wouldn't allow you to. We'd say, no, you can't kill this dog, because dogs matter morally. And the same with the cow. Why does the cow get the rough end of the stick? That's the same thing with fishing. Would you say that cows and fish have the same impact when they become beheaded? I mean, is it the same kind of moral issue for every animal? Now, I think there's a gradient in moral value due to our depth of experience. I think fish meet the criteria for sentience, but when you talk about fish, you're talking about a lot of different species, so we'd have to... Like, obviously, I don't think an oyster has the same moral value as a tuner, because an oyster doesn't have a brain, and a tuner's got a brain in eyes and... So what would you say? Tuner? What would I say? Yeah. If I was going to choose between an oyster and a tuner, I would choose the tuner to live, of course. But we're not in that situation. It's a choice between me choosing plant-based foods and killing an animal. That's the thing, ultimately. If you know... If these things are pushed in front of you and you know, you make different choices, like, you know, you were more past itsu now, you wouldn't go in itsu, because, again, you're thinking about your animals. I would go in itsu. There's plenty of vegan options there. Yeah. I wouldn't go there and eat the animals there, but I eat the plant-based food there, which is easy. What I'm saying is you make decisions based on information, and depending on how much information you process, sometimes you turn a blind eye. You know, you might walk down the street and see if I'm getting mugged. Yes, I would. Well, I had to find a gun and I was going to risk my life, but if I was going to get hit, punched or something, yes, I would help them. If I was going to get stabbed to death, then I would call the police and try to do something, but, yeah, but I intervened the other day when a woman was being, you know, I do intervene, but that's me, because I'm physically capable. But all you have to do with the information, I get disconnect happens, and that's why people, good people, commit horrible acts of violence through the supply chain without thinking about it. And it's a very direct thing. It's like I'm eating the body of this animal. Good people do this because of conditioning and all these reasons. So I understand it. What would it take to motivate you? If we had the cow here existing in front of you, and I said, all I have to do is, like, just slash their head off for you to have this steak, would you want me to do that, or would you find another way? See, history, we don't see it in this country. If you go back two generations where my families are from, this was normal. You had livestock and domestic stock. You did have a choice between eating and not eating back then. So you would have chickens. Yeah. You would have... And it would be done in front of you. You can be conditioned to violence, though. One of the problems that you have is, or not, you have a problem now in this country. When someone passes away over your own family, your own family member passes away. How do you process grief? When you haven't even seen an animal pass away in front of you, you know, and go through that emotion, I think it's still going to be different if you see... If your family member dies, then seeing a stranger die, you know... I'm still... What I'm saying is, it is that experience of death, you know. They would see this day in, day out in their life. Yeah, murder, like, when we talk about killing an animal, I'm talking about, like, the equivalent of murder. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, like, they want to live. You're forcing their life away from them with a knife, you know, versus natural death. And something that we will all, in the back of our minds, have to experience with a family member or ourselves one day. Yeah, I'm talking about, like, we're robbing their life from them for a sandwich or for a steak, you know. Which is awful. Yeah. Absolutely awful. But you're asking the question, would you find an alternative way? Yeah, yeah. Would you become a vegan? If you had to kill an animal every time... To be honest, I've tried veganism, and I've gone that way. I possibly will walk that way again. But not yet. Not yet. Not for me. Has this made me change my thinking? You can see the lamb. Do you eat lambs? I do, indeed, yeah. Yeah. You can see what it's like from the struggle and the blood and the fear and the... Yeah, it's awful. Well, they're in there because of you, partly. Yeah. And they were for me, because of me, for 26 years. Yeah. Well, all I'm saying is you make decisions, and you would have to make that decision for your life. Conscience speaks, you know, bash it back down, and it doesn't speak, but if you were in there experiencing that, you'd want me to be speaking for you as well. So that's why I'm out here talking to people, trying to find those people who care enough to be motivated enough to make that change and to help make a difference for them, because... I'm behind you, brother. But whether I would make a change now, I think because of my own footsteps where I walked, it would be easier for somebody else to do it. But for me... You got health issues. You had a struggle. I had health issues. Yeah. I walked the right way. But whether I would try another avenue now, knowing that if I tried the wrong avenue, I might go back to those two years of the dark place, I'm not sure. Yeah, that might be a bit scary for you, but thank you for your time. It's very scary to be a cow, though, on the other end of that knife. Probably more scary. They're doing it a little bit harder, so... Thank you, brother. Don't worry, mate. Take care. See you, mate. I wonder if you would kill and eat me in order to stop his health issue or flare up from eczema, but elimination diet, that's all it is. Nothing magical about meat and definitely doesn't morally justify decapitating cows. I certainly wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it to a human. I wouldn't do it to a cow. That's it. She definitely read the sign and did not look away. She didn't look away so much as she actually ran into a pulp.