 Thank you. Thank you. And I just wanted to let you know closed captioning is working. If you want to turn that on, it's at the bottom of your screen. Oh, great. Okay. Yes, zoom has adopted closed. Michelle. This is here. All right. So I see the presence of a quorum. And so I'm going to call this meeting of governance organization and legislation to order. On December 2nd. According to my watch, it is actually what time is it? And 31. So at 1031. And I'm first going to make sure that everyone can be heard and can speak. So we'll go around the horn, Lynn. Yes. And Mandy. Yep. And Pat. Yep. And Andy. Yep. Thank you. And let me see, Alyssa. Present. Thank you. Matt, just so we can hear you. Good. Yes. Thank you, Matt. All right. So, and Michelle. Yes. Okay. Thank you, Michelle. So pursuant to governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. This meeting of governance organization legislation is being recorded. And I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of that. So we have a remote participation. We are being recorded. And I just been told that close captioning is functioning and working. So. I believe that's everything we need to do. From that perspective, just quickly to my colleagues on to L. As you may know, we have gotten a response from KP law. Related to facial recognition. And, and I also a little bit in an email memo. So both of those, I believe, are in the packet. They're certainly on SharePoint. And I believe they're in the packet. Actually, they're not, I take that back. Apologize. They're not in the packet and they're not on SharePoint. But my plan is to take that up. Well, we'll talk about this later actually, but they have come. It has come in. I don't know if the sponsors have any thoughts on that at all. But that's just for general knowledge. Okay. I'm going to pretty much follow the agenda as we have it in front of us. So the first item of business is to continue our review of the anti-racism resolution. And a copy of that is in your packet. And we have the sponsors present. We have Alyssa here. We have Michelle and we have Matt. And I'm going to begin by asking my colleagues. If they have any comments or concerns or questions about. The newly revised version of this resolution. So I'm looking for hands. I see Mandy. I see Pat. Let's start with Mandy. Okay. I have very few. So don't, don't freak out. Just one. So on page two. Yeah. I don't know which whereas it is. It's about halfway down the, in 2019 and Amherst, the median family income for white families. I feel like there needs to be an and. Before the third one. So the white families, comma 51% of the back black population was reported as being below the private property line comma compared with 30% for white comma and white residents in Amherst were four times more than a home than black residents. Because I think there's three groups. So I think we need an and before white residents. And then my only other comment. Relates to three whereas is below that. The one that starts the Amherst town council acknowledges the trauma inflicted on black residents. And the third line says conjures painful memories to our towns past, not only for those who lived through them, but also the generations that have followed. And in reading that, I wasn't sure what the them was modifying. So it made it a confusing sentence to me. You know, is it the memories? Is it. The ideology? I just wasn't sure what you were trying to understand. I was trying to understand what you were talking back to. And so some clarifying on that would be helpful to me, but otherwise those are the only things I had. Okay. So insertion of an and. And a question about that particular, a whereas clause, any response to. Whereas I assume the end is no problem. Any comments on the whereas clause. I don't know what you're trying to say. But I'm going to wait for a second, Andy. And see if the sponsors have any thoughts there. Did I just go ahead? Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't see your hand, but that's because I'm blonde. So go ahead, Matt. I think the intention here is for them to modify memories, but I understand that it's not entirely clear. It's almost like it's supposed to be modifying events, which is implied in memories. So I think that's where the lack of. I think that's where the lack of clarity comes from. So change we could make that we'd make it clear. Yeah, I think let's go on and we can take note of this yet. I think it's an easy fix. Okay. All right. Andy is your hand raised. So Andy. Yeah, go to the very bottom. The last substance of. Am I muted? I think everyone should be careful with their muting. I like to keep it open, but we do have some noise in the background. I'm not sure where it's coming from. So you are not muted, Andy. You're coming through loud and clear. Yeah. Okay. So. In the last. Very last clause, there's the term reparative. And so I decided. That I wanted to, after last night's meeting, began to think about the question of what is the definition. And so it's really starts as a question. For the sponsors. When I looked up the word in the dictionary. The first definition is the active process of making amends for a wrong. And then the second in subsequent ones. The next two definitions that are given in the dictionary I was looking at. Talk about money paid compensation, money paid compensation. And I was wondering if we just need to be. Clear amongst ourselves as to what is intended. By that term and whether. It's the. What we want to put forward. Well, is this an issue. This is an issue of clarity. I take an Andy. Or because it's, I don't think it's a matter of action ability. It is clarity. Okay. Just want some clarity. If you've got a term and you have different people interpreting. A word in different ways. And we have. And when you look at the dictionary. It is multiple. It's multiple means that can be given to the term. And that then creates a question of clarity. All right. So we have a question for the sponsors on the use of the term reparative in the very last. Be it for the result. Any thoughts or comments on that from the sponsors. And again, you can just speak up. I'm looking for hands. I don't see any at the moment, but if you're raising your hand and I don't see it to speak up. I don't think it's going to be a good idea to speak up. I don't think it's going to be free to leave it as it is. I mean, there's no. Yeah. Just, I mean, as a. Response to Andy's question, the intention in the use of the word was very simple and straightforward based on the first. Definition that he found in the dictionary. Okay. Okay. I would also add, sorry, I can't really. See myself. I would also add that the word process. To me works with the word reparative in a way that. Does keep it in line with that first definition that Andy mentioned. Okay. Andy, would you repeat the first definition? Okay. I'll say it again. But I also want to just mention that I very appreciative of the comments and. Was tempted to leave it at that. The first definition in the dictionary that I'm looking at. Is the actor process of making amends for or wrong. Which is the way that I read it when we talked about it last time. I don't know if I'm comfortable with it with that definition. But I just wanted to make sure that we didn't have a misunderstanding. Which is what the clarity question is. Okay. I think it's something that also could come out in the. Council discussion. But yes. Pat, go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to go back to. Earlier section on page two. The whereas that begins with 2020. Yeah. It says. Where is it. We're following the national outcry following the murder of George. That bothers me. And I think it should simply say. Whereas in 2020. Following the murder of George Floyd. Yes, there was a national outcry. But what we're getting at is that Amherst. So it's that following, following bothers me. Mm hmm. Okay. I agree. That's a bit awkward. So you're suggesting that simply striking. Following the murder of George Floyd. Striking the words following the national outcry. Striking that. Yeah. And again. So that's a sponsor suggestion, but I don't know if the other sponsors any thoughts. I just remember that the reason that happened is that someone was concerned last time that without any. Specifics people in Amherst might wonder why we were, if they hadn't heard of George Floyd, why we cared and Amherst about it. But I'm just putting that out there as the reason why it ended up there. Yeah. So that's another option here. And then I have one more very minor. I want Mandy to know, Joe, to know I had her end, but I didn't have her second one. In also on the first, now therefore. Yeah. In accordance with the fundamental principles of the declaration of independence, which asserts that all people, it does not assert that it's search that all men. So I think that the quote should start. After people. I don't want it to say men. Only. And I think it should, it'd be that all people quote are created equal. And that's probably silly, but so I don't care if it happens or not. But I noticed it this morning. I like it patting good catch. And I are in competition in case you haven't figured it out. It's a good competition. It's a healthy. And that was it for me. So. That was it for me. So if we, if, if it's acceptable, particularly to Matthew and Michelle, the ones that we've made, can we just look at the. The highlighted them and figure that out because then we would be ready to have the committee vote. That is my sense. Yes. I'm sorry. No, no, that's fine. That's fine. I got to move my laptop by the sun is. Wait, let me just close the curtain. I'm not sure if this matters folks, but was the font change. Okay. To keep it limited to the three pages. Is that looking. I think I limited it to three pages. Okay. Is that, is that reading? Is that reading? Is that reading? Is that reading? Is that reading? Is that reading? Is that reading? Okay. Is that, is that readable still and everything okay with that? I think it's fine. I think it's fine. Okay, great. Appreciate putting it to three pages. Thank you. So the them. What any thoughts on what, if anything needs to be done here. Let me read it one more time just so people can hear it. Okay. Whereas the Emmerstown council acknowledges the trauma inflicted on blacks by persistent white supremacist ideology. Results in psychological harm affecting educational. Economic health and social outcomes. And conjures painful memories of our towns past. Not only for those who live through them, but also the generation that have followed. Generations that have followed. Right. I don't have a problem. Yeah. But I'm, that's open for discussion. I see a list of hand, Alyssa, please. Would it help. The people who are concerned to change it to these, those experiences or these experiences. Yeah. These events or these experiences. It just, I guess. Matthew had it exactly right when I was like, it seems to hearken back to memories, but you don't really live through memories. Right. Right. Right. That's correct. I also believe there needs to now be a comma. Okay. So not only for those who lived through these events or. Experiences. I think it's good. Okay. Who lived through these experiences. Comma. That's a suggestion. It could be, but also for the generations that have followed. I think four is better because. Yeah. Great. Yes. Yes. That would be parallel construction. That would make sense. Okay. Well, it's your hands still up, but that may be residual. But if it isn't, please go ahead. Okay. The hand is down. So I think we have made all the changes. I have no further changes to recommend. I think this was an excellent rewrite. I think it addressed everything that was raised. Okay. And then we had the last meeting. At our last meeting. We've made a number of minor changes, which the sponsors seem to be perfectly comfortable with. The title was an issue. Are people okay with that? Oops. I'm sorry. That's all right. I do that all the time. I'm good with the title. Resolution from the town of Amherst commitment to end structural racism and achieve racial equity for lack of residents. I'm willing to entertain a motion that this committee will declare this resolution. Affirming the town of Amherst commitment to unstructural racism and achieve racial equity for black residents to be clear, consistent and actionable. So Andy will make that motion is there a second second. So Mandy seconds. I don't see any further discussions. I'm going to go immediately to vote. I'm going to start this time with Lynn. Yes. And Mandy. Yes. And Pat. Yes. And Andy. Yes. And the chair is a yes. So that vote is five to zero unanimous declaring its resolution to be clear, consistent and actionable. All right. This will go to the council. When do you know? They I'm sorry. It's on the agenda for Monday night. Monday night agenda very quick. Can I ask a clarifying question? Sure. This is of Michelle and Matthew and we have the history document. It is not going to be attached to the resolution, but I would love it if it were in the packet. I'm delighted. Thank you. I'm happy to answer the questions. We have a number of speakers to read. Is that possible? Absolutely. If you would send that to my to me today, I'll make sure if anything gets it. Okay. So Michelle, will you take care of that? You bet. Thank you. Okay. All right. We're going to move on to our other business, the sponsors for their presence and for their hard work. And as Lynn said, this will be on the agenda at our council meeting next Monday. Thank you very much for review. You're welcome. Yeah, thank you all. Thanks for all your work. Yeah, see y'all on Monday. Yes, indeed. So the next item is actually the patent citation which is sponsored by Dorothy Pam. Dorothy can't join us until noon. So I'm going to hold this for a moment. I did not see any problems with it at all. I thought it was well written and I think it should be easy for us to get through. But I think as a courtesy to her, she, I'm not certain she's coming. But I did have an email back and forth and 12 noon was what worked for her. And so I'm going to wait until then. And if she hasn't joined us by then we'll come back to it. But I'm going to hold it off for just a moment. The next item I have the agenda is to deal with the FinCom vacancy. And what I'd like us to do, we have reached the two week, we're a couple hours short of the full two weeks, but this was posted two weeks ago. So we are able, I believe, to make a decision as to the pool sufficiency. So we can declare the pool sufficient. I'd also like us to vote on the selection guidance. I'm hoping we can just use the selection guidance for the last time. I have one minor suggestion or change, but I'd like to do that. And I'd also like us if it makes sense to you all to make a decision about the term length. But assuming we can do those three things, or at least most of them, I would then proceed to notify the candidates and we go on from there. So the first question is sufficiency of the pool. And I think you have a document in the folder that tells you that we had 10 individuals in the pool. I believe eight of them were prior people had already been in the pool before and two were new. And I believe in that document, I tell you the status of all of the applicants. Again, a number of people had not responded and they also didn't respond the first time. So, but we did get a couple of no's and we have three yeses. We have three individuals who have said that they would like to be considered for this position. So I guess the first question for you all is whether that number and the three candidates that at the moment have expressed an interest in being considered is sufficient for us to proceed. And so I'm going to open that up to any thoughts people have. The chair will keep his thoughts to himself for a moment. Andy, where do you think you stand on that? I, you know, we've advertised as best we can. We reached out to everybody who had expressed previous interest. I think that it's a group that merits consideration. So I'm comfortable with continuing to see what the rest of you think. I agree with Andy. I agree with Andy. I think it's a sufficient pool. The fact that you've made the effort to contact all of the others that would act can be considered in the pool and have some responses. I think we should go ahead and declare it sufficient and move on. I agree. Same here. Mandy, okay, good. So I would like to then make the motion that we declare the pool for FinCom to be a sufficient. Lynn will second that. And so again, just quickly start this time with Mandy. Yes. And Pat. Yes. And Andy. Yes. And Lynn. Yes. And the chair is a yes. So that's five zero. We're declaring the pool to be sufficient. So we have three active candidates. And so the next question I have is whether we can also declare just vote on the selection guide. So I believe we're required by the process to to vote on the guidance. Since we have the chair finance present, if there's any need for changes, we could make them. But there should be. So this is the process document that lists all the various steps, but there should also be in the folder, a document, right, that spells out what we use last time. And I have one very small proposed change, but we need to look at it as a whole. And people need to decide if they're satisfied with it. I have a hard copy in front of me, but. There's one on the screen now. Thank you. Thank you, Lynn. I had one question. Sure. Which is this the big middle paragraph. In addition, the chair so solicit from the chair of the finance committee input as to whether there are any preferred knowledge or expertise. I know we have the chair of the finance committee on this committee. I don't know whether you've solicited that input. And Andy didn't add any or whether it hasn't been solicited, but I'd be hesitant to vote on the guidance until we have the input from Andy as chair of finance into this document. Right. I don't remember whether we had that input last time or what it was. I think it was pretty informal. That may not be satisfactory to you, but. And I was going to simply turn to the chair of finance, since he's a member of this committee and ask him if he is willing or comfortable to speak on this now. If he's not, we can delay, but is there any, I was just going to ask him directly, actually, right here in real time. Is there any preferred knowledge or expertise that the committee requires to better assist it in its work? This is a really peculiar circumstance that we're in. And I'm going to actually just recognize that we also have a quorum of the finance committee that is sitting here right now too. And so that, because under other circumstances, what I might say is I'm comfortable, but I'd like to put it on the agenda. For next week's finance committee meeting to see if I have other suggestions from members of the finance committee and then bring it back for our next meeting. But I'm in the, I feel like I'm in this weird space right now. Well, there is some time concern given the budget process. And I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that. Given the budget process, but that's just one concern. It's not necessarily the only one. There's also a process concern. Weighing those is difficult. I think, I guess, a question that would be fair to ask you and others can weigh in is how important is the timeliness of this? We have moved, I think, fairly quickly to declare the pool. I think in large part because of desire to fill this position quickly given the budget process. If we delay further, we would be looking at our next meeting is December 16. And what we're required to do is have at least one week before the actual interviews and vote that the materials be posted publicly. So we can meet that schedule if we proceed today. If we don't proceed today and have to wait, and that's fine. But if we do, then I think we're talking January before we would actually get around to sending this to the council. We do have a set of selection criteria that worked, I thought, perfectly well and are very clear and I don't see any reason to change them. We do have the chair present along with two other members of his committee. And if there was any particular concern, he could simply say, I want to take this to my committee and that would be the end of it. And we would just have to wait and that's fine by me. But there I think is a sense that the sooner we can get someone on this body, given the budget process, the better. That's the only, my thought is if we do send it to, if we wait and have finance weigh in formally, which is fine, we would probably not be able to act on this. The council would not be able to act on this until January. I feel like I agree with George that the criteria worked last time and that we should move forward with it so we're not delaying. And then if the finance committee members have input, that can go for the next round because that's not, that's going to be coming up fairly soon anyway. It can also be in the questions that we ask to explore whether candidates have a certain experience, but I'm inclined to go ahead and the reason I'm inclined to go ahead is because as I look at the two existing non-voting residents of the finance committee, we have somebody who's really, really steeped in public finance. And we have another person who has now been on the finance committee for a year and a half and has really come into their own as a person who has taken a lot of time to understand the town's finances. So I'm not feeling as vulnerable with regard to people who understand the town finances. And that would be the major outstanding criteria in my mind. So I just want, you know, I ask the question because it's in our own process for seeking out the chair. I'm comfortable with Andy saying as chair, I'm good with the selection guidance. You know, I know from my chairmanship of CRC that various chairs of other committees that have similar requirements on processes for appoint, you know, for recommending appointments, the various chairs of those committees don't always actually ask the rest of the committee. That doesn't mean it's a good or a bad process, but it's not out of the ordinary for the, to be just the chair. So I don't necessarily feel like by adopting a process today, as long as Andy as chair has said, this looks good for me for now, you know, that we're going outside of a norm for the council as a whole. And I do get concerned that if we do take the time that we can't do interviews till January and it can't be acted on the council until mid January. Whereas now if we can get those interviews in December 16th, the council can approve and appoint a new member at this very first January meeting. And two weeks doesn't always sound like a lot, but given where we are in the budget process, that could be a lot. So actually our second meeting in January is not until the 25th of January. Yeah, I'm okay with going forward in response to what you just said. Yeah, we're in the middle of the budget process, but the budget process has this funny thing where we go through the stage we're in right now where we develop budget guidelines and it's too late for that, that's going to be done. And then the budget process kind of gets into a slower space and because it's really Paul who's working on a budget that proposed to us. So it's not like I think that there'd be a tremendous loss, but I sort of flip it around and say that I don't think that the tremendous game by postponing it either and it's good for the candidates who've now responded that they show an interest that we would be with some speed. Right, and I think again this is in response to a resignation. So this is an unusual circumstance I think in the normal course of things when a term is up we start this all much earlier and there's a but here we're trying to fill the vacancy. So there is a certain sense of haste. So what I'm hearing Andy is that you're comfortable with these guidelines as written and do not feel it necessary or absolutely necessary to consult your committee on it and you're willing to go ahead. I and please correct me if I'm mistaken but I might also have just a small question about the document in the very last paragraph under our favorite topic term limits. The word second term maybe I'm just not understanding it but it says generally if a person is serving a first term they're given preference for a second conversely if a person is completing a second term shouldn't that be a third term because actually these are two-year appointments and the the usual length is six years and so I'm just wondering my maybe I'm misunderstanding it but if a person is completing a third term and their other qualified applicants preference would be given all things considered to a newcomer we would not normally give preference not saying we couldn't do it but we normally wouldn't give preference to a newcomer if someone is applying for a second term correct it would be the third term right completing a third term. I think this is legacy from when this document said normally limited to two terms of three years in length exactly so that shouldn't this be a third term so I think the first sentence should be if a person is serving a first or second term they're given a preference for another term and then conversely if a person is completing a third term right and there are other qualified applicants yes well I'm going to suggest we make that change and so what we would read as Manny just said if a person is serving a first or second so insert or second term and I can make these I'm making these changes yeah I don't have the word that's all right I can I can they are given preference for a for a third I think you can just say for another term okay for another term okay so would read if a person is serving a first or second term they are given preference for another term conversely if a person is completing a third term and then the rest would go on as stated so that's what I'm suggesting as a change any thoughts on that I think that's good change okay so we're going to amend this document with that new wording and I will make the changes in my copy and then have it inserted into the record and we when we vote on that can we make sure we amend the actual policy whatever we describe the policy as to since that wording came directly out of our process whatever that document's called process document something needs I'm sorry something needs to be amended there yeah well this limit section I assume was directly copied from the process document so it would make sense to modify the process document at the same time right we'll do if you want I can bring the process document up but that's okay Lynn I hear Mandy's point I will also review the process document and make any changes necessary um because this is really housekeeping I think as long as we'll vote in a moment on this change when we approve or when we vote on the selection guidance but um excuse me is it playing hail to the chief no it's not ah Dorothy you're here welcome we're gonna get to you in a second it sounds like you're that's fine but we're we're working our way through something it'll take us just a few moments and then we'll turn you don't mind to you right after that so we have a amended version here of selection guidance and we need to vote on selection to to approve the guidance selection guidance as amended and so that's the motion um yeah so Mandy's going to move that we approve the selection guidance document um as amended on this date is there a second yes second so Lynn has seconded we're going to go right to a vote this time I'm going to start with Andy yes and Pat yes and Mandy yes and Lynn yes and the chair is a yes so again five zero unanimous um we're approving the selection guidance we have also declared the pool to be sufficient and um all right I will make those changes both to the guidance document and also to the process document do we want to talk briefly about the term Mandy Joe you have your hand up okay Mandy please I was actually not going to mention the term I was going to say should we decide when the interviews are and then let George determine the dates for the due dates for the statements of interest and all of that I was going to yeah I was going to suggest we do the interviews at our next meeting which would mean that but this is just a suggestion and that I notified candidates later today that the three candidates um that they have one week they have until Tuesday of next week to submit an SOI and that they would be interviewed on Wednesday um sometime between 10 30 and 12 30 we'll set that in a moment um now obviously if there's a problem with that timing that could create a challenge for us um but for the moment my suggestion was to um interview on the 16th and then have a vote on the 16th um and the only possible problem I can imagine is that someone simply can't make that Tuesday time I'm hoping that won't be the case if it is we may have to do some um well I don't know what we'll do I mean one option is to just make a special time and hopefully everybody can be there oh it's Wednesday December 16th yeah not Tuesday right yeah yeah Wednesday the 16th is the meeting but I'm going to make the SOIs do on Tuesday of this coming week um so they have to be the SOIs have to be posted one week in advance of the interviews so um I would tell them you've got a week to get the SOIs in and they have to be up um by basically Wednesday morning of next week for a week and then we then we could proceed with interviews that's what I'm suggesting now we don't do it that way then we're either going to have to have a meeting in late December um or I have to wait till January that timeline works for me works for me yeah if you if you do run into a candidate that for some reason cannot make the 10 30 and I I think we do need to reconsider just because of the fast turnaround but if it can work for them I think we should go ahead okay so I will reach out to them later today and and and confirm the interview uh and the SOI question of just I'm going to suggest one of the candidates has already submitted an SOI one of the candidates has already been interviewed by this committee um so that raises the question of a may I give the candidate the option of they may submit another SOI but they're perfectly free to simply have have us use the one they just gave us that's Jane Schaeffler isn't that is correct so Schaeffler has submitted an SOI um and I think Mandy in comment to me suggested that um you know you can say to her she's perfectly free to just you know leave that one in or she could write a new one if she wants but it has to be in if she's going to do that it has to be in by next Tuesday I feel she should be given the opportunity that seems reasonable change the other question is whether we should interview her again can we are we satisfied do we you know is that you know if you just interviewed somebody in the last you know a short period um should we uh I mean what's the thought on interviewing I'd like to interview her again because we are looking at other candidates as well all right I agree thanks you give the opportunity we do have to remember that it's not required for any of these candidates to attend the interview under our selection guidance um I believe we made the interviews optional for any candidate um but but certainly we should definitely offer all the candidates the equal opportunity to do the interview agree that makes that makes sense to me as well um does that also give us an out if a candidate cannot make the interview time if someone says look I just can't make that time no no one of the things I was just going to suggest if I can continue and I've got anyway so um I think we should have an alternative um evening possibly on the 16th Wednesday the second just as a backup to go for the first one but it could be two candidates who for whatever reason because 10 30 to 12 30 is uh during the normal work day and many people are working right right so that is a good suggestion pat I'll see what the rest of you think that we could tentatively pencil in a uh like uh we wouldn't need more than a half an hour these interviews are basically 10 minutes uh 15 minutes max so if we could agree on that Wednesday the 16th um people have their calendars otherwise but um I do have an event but it's not I can get out of it so um seven o'clock is that reasonable or I mean what do people for me that works for me okay seven o'clock Lynn hopefully we won't need to do it though I have I do have a question but it is reasonable for me and the question is um if we do that is the point of final interview is that the intention of the committee to continue meeting as we did last time to make a decision yeah yeah you're really talking about a longer period of time correct dandy yes you're right that's going to be more than half an hour if we have to do that it works for me and that would have to be um it has to be posted within 48 hours so I have more than enough time to do that but it would have to be posted there's no question so um if one or more of the candidates says I cannot make the daytime interview um then we would offer them the evening interview if they can't make that I'm not I don't think it's going to be a problem but at that point I'm really wondering whether we're really under obligation to uh to move heaven and earth um but so tentatively good when it's the interview 10 30 12 30 offer an alternative at seven if we do have to do that we will also go a little bit later because we will do the vote then I didn't know the council had the power to move heaven and earth uh no but this committee does this committee can move hell only thank you very much um so uh can we talk about term and then I want to go to Dorothy um uh so I think we've settled everything that I need to settle except the length of the appointment and I'd like us to talk about that and make a decision if we can um I'm going to make a suggestion but you're perfectly free to reject it um I'm not particularly excited about a six month appointment but that is an option so that's just me speaking personally but I don't think we can offer a two-year term straight up because that um right in other words it has to be if we offer a two-year term it kind of creates well it ends in the middle of a of a right budget season so that's no good so I was going to suggest a year and a half in other words complete this term and then it would um end in 20 what would it be June uh 30 2022 so the year and a half year and a half that would coincide with burning right burning but not right the other one right right that would be mine I double check that but that would be um so I guess the options are two as I understand it one is just six months and then uh renew then they're up for renewal um and the other is a year and a half and then they're up for renewal if you like there's anything in the charge that prevents us from doing this uh I think that I think it just can't be more than two years right I mean it just right we cannot appoint somebody for a term longer than um than the two-year limit but we're certainly free I think to appoint somebody to a one-year um or are we I mean that's I just assume that but that's that may not be right any thoughts on that Mandy in terms of process I'm trying to find the finance charge right yeah I'll see if I can find mine too um I've got mine here I mean I think it reads like most charges it doesn't talk about fractions of terms but it doesn't not talk about it either um so finance charge I've got it here too so I've got that it's um two years for non-voting members um and then three non-voting members it doesn't say anything it doesn't years I mean when you have somebody resign and you decide to fill that position um are you simply restricted to filling the existing term is that just the rule for this sort of thing or can you most instances you are I mean for example we had a school committee person right like we did we could only appoint for the remainder of that term right right that's my only hesitation sure that's because there's an election it's built into the charter that you have to you don't you don't want to have the citizens have to vote separately right this is uh something that's totally a council matter and I don't think that it's the same I mean I think we could propose that to the council and the council gets to decide whether or not it's a valid term do that do we propose that before or after well I think the motion would be to appoint so-and-so to a term that ends x and then it would be up to some clever councillor to notice that it's it's not a two year right and then raise an objection but if not six months right so you know if nobody says anything then fine if somebody raises the objection then I guess we can have a debate about it I can't imagine why anyone would care um but maybe somebody does the other one is just to do six months I'd like a year and a half with a report that explains why we're proposing a year and a half instead of six months why are we I mean that's that's yeah I mean I recommended it but why I think six months might be too short and a year and a half makes more sense and it still doesn't put if if Sharon's you know old term was the only one up in you know this June in six seven months then maybe a year and a half would be problematic because then we'd have all three up at the same time in a year and a half but we don't so given that it it still keeps that sort of staggering goal of experience while also recognizing that the issue about some length of time for commitment purposes and we also didn't violate the two year term issue right here right right so this this and it keeps it in June when we want these June to July when we want these definitely want it in June that's no question June 30 so what I'm hearing is that people at the moment are people are comfortable with um the year and a half so this would end June 30 2022 and in the report the chair would simply point out that we're doing this in part um because we're trying to stagger positions and also because we felt that six months um really was not given the the nature of the commitment uh someone asking someone to serve on a finance committee is a very serious commitment that we're just doing it to reflect the nature of that commitment um okay so it sounds like people are okay with June 30 2022 um I assume I can tell uh well yes I mean I guess I can tell the um the applicants that um we're going to propose I mean we don't decide but we're going to propose to the council a term that lasted last until June 30 2022 do we want to vote that now or do we want to vote it when we get the term I think we can vote that when we actually come to the I just want to get a sense of you all what you thought um I think we could just vote when we do the final motion recommendation we'll put the term in as a year and a half and um and I'll mention that in the report um one last very quick thing and then we're going to Dorothy um I wanted to send an email message to Sharon Povinelli thanking her for her service on the finance committee and I wanted initially I was going to send it myself and I thought well I could send it on behalf of the GOL committee since we're the ones who do the the the vetting and all the rest of it um so I just wanted to get an okay from you all that if I send her it's be a very brief message but just thanking her for her service and and and expressing our appreciation I would sign it with all five of our names is that okay I think it's something that that we should try to do going forward at least with our appointments we always try to reach out to people and in some way and say thank you and I think for council appointments like the ones we're doing um that can easily come from GOL because that's we're the one who's doing this okay and he may decide he wants to bring that same idea to the finance committee well yeah actually Kirsten Wim and I both uh send emails separately okay exactly I'm sure people do and I just want to make sure that if I did do this I could do it myself which I'm perfectly comfortable doing as chair but I was going to add your names and if that's okay I will do that if you'd rather I can just do it as chair um yeah please do all right all right Dorothy thank you for your patience um we have before us a our first citation um which I think is actually I think is great I think I like the thought that we um occasionally recognize or acknowledge people in our community who do extraordinary things and the council says just you know you know thank you or you're just recognizing it so we have a citation in front of us um for Dorothy Patton the sponsor is uh Joyce Joyce Joyce the Patton right thank you JV Maryland Maryland right totally let's let's let's go down on my notes a minute ago yeah it's it's Maryland v pat but but that that's in that group of names by the way all the same year like there's no little Maryland's now there's no little Joyce's and there's no little Dorothy's now because that's an era that's a name era right I got it yeah well one of the one of the cute jokes which is not in here but which which is that when I watched the um biographic um living history video was they used to call her the general at various times because you'd be putting on these big shows and big dance productions all right yeah so I mean this came to us be from um the man who who sponsored it but it's all partly because she has been even since her retirement a focus of alumni from the program and that they have gotten together they've kept up ties which which is very useful professionally but they've also raised money for dancers in the process so it's it's a it's a not just for her years of it's not written in here but of her work at the university but it's also for the continue role and so her big 85th birthday gala is in fact also a fundraiser for for dancers okay well I cast my very keen eye over this document and I think Dorothy did an excellent job going through and and putting it together I did not see anything but that doesn't mean much um any of you have any comments concerns questions about this document changes you'd like to make um Joe and Andy have their hands so let's start with Andy yeah I actually uh it's just uh a couple places and I'll point them out um and um we instead of uh it I'll give the the go to the fifth whereas clause whereas in 1970 um she founded every a place else except two we use her name so do we want to say whereas in 1970 Miss Patton founded the university dancers and then in the last whereas clause uh you mass dancers having it it says her again uh Miss Patton uh so that's the only question I had is whether we want to use those generic terms she and her or whether we want to place her name in everywhere as clause okay third point Andy we have Maryland v Patton we have Maryland Patton right Miss Patton so perhaps we want to go through and just be consistent right could I could I ask a question here uh as you know this was built upon a very good um armature that Mandy Joe wrote uh and she will recognize that much of it that she wrote is unchanged um you have strong feelings on these things um I my my feeling is I don't like miss but I'm sure there's like rules and and traditions on this what are the name because this is a good point Andy brought up what are the name traditions do you keep repeating the name or do you use variations the citations I've seen from the Massachusetts legislature keep repeating the name okay I think I'd repeat the name and that probably means adding the v in anywhere we do it to you know because they seem to use the v you know not everyone uses their middle initial she seems to yes um so yep when you go on the internet you will find there are other Maryland v patents even um so I think the v the middle initial is important because there are other people with certainly there are other Maryland patents and there wasn't that one other Maryland v patent you're thorough Dorothy so uh then if we do that then um again this is Mandy doing the editing I believe uh no Lynn's doing it there's one more whereas where the her has to be yeah yeah so let's so it's it's just good to learn the the the formal kind of traditions of this kind of thing that's it I think that's it right here it's to put it that would be too redundant right absolutely I think I think that's a good thing so when when you're using uh right after ah and joins Maryland and saying so I think in that one it's fine those three because it's all the same sentence mm-hmm yeah yep yep I agree so if I were to make a grammar rule I would say use the whole name except when it's ridiculously redundant that's good um now how about the very last now therefore that's what we were just referencing we decided that this would to say her name again would be really redundant and here it's really getting to her right right just joins her inside right okay thank you all right so go ahead Mandy go ahead in the first whereas I wanted to add the word because right after whereas otherwise it seems to be a weird fragment here first whereas first whereas the very first whereas because the town of Amherst recognizes oh take this opportunity yeah or you could put an and between the humanity and we but I think the because works better I think you agree yes because is excellent so whereas because the town in that whereas should probably be a capital T it's the third line at the end yeah I'm I have taken community country and world um in the fourth whereas this this is my ignorance of UMass buildings does nope stand for something I didn't know it does because it just seems really weird in there I does I think physical education is the PE um I I had wondered about keeping that in there too I think we could just take it out but that that is the name of the building but I think it's esoteric yes I think it could be stricken I agree okay two whereas is later yep the one that begins Marilyn Patton's true legacy um after administrators directors put an and before the word leaders right good good and then I didn't like the comma among others so I put an and before Boston University and recommend deleting the among others plus the comma after BU I mean because the including seems to imply right right but that's not only those right yeah that sounds refined oh I had one more comma the whereas that begins in 1970 yep after university's walls I think there should be a comma mm-hmm um the university's walls comma performing annually throughout the state of Massachusetts yes I think that's a good one Tehran Tehran and Patras Greece okay that's all I had okay all right I don't see any other hands um I just want to I want to um is Pat I don't see your pictures Pat's still here yes yes okay um in one of the articles it made a big point that she'd studied under Eric Hawkins and of course I did know that name so I had included that because a lot of times artists include the names of their teachers but um uh Rick the man who had presented this to us um said well she also studied with a lot of other people so it I just thought I'd tell you that because I you probably know the tradition of putting the teachers in where it's sometimes really important that's why it's not there not a problem any other comments suggestions changes commendations to this document I'm not seeing any so I'm going to uh make the motion that this citation in honor of Maryland the patent um be declared clear consistent and actionable so moved all right so um Pat has made the motion a second please second any seconds any further discussion I don't see any so I'm going to go immediately to a vote and I'm going to start uh this time with Pat yes and Lynn yes and Mandy yes and Andy yes and the chair is a yes so this citation is declared clear consistent actionable unanimously five to zero and it's going to the council on this week's agenda on the consent agenda all right um can I ask one question I think I answered ask this before but I don't remember the answer when we give one of these things is there a paper copy yes yes okay it goes on town letterhead uh there's a paper I sign it electronically these days actually and then um we make sure a paper copy can be sent and printed in color and everything else great thank you and usually like the sponsor gets the copy as well so Dorothy you'll get a copy oh absolutely thank you right Athena's very thorough about that yeah she's great um so Lynn you're going to send this uh as well as these uh racism um anti-racism resolution as a meant to Athena okay thank you yep all right uh Dorothy thank you um we're going to proceed on to uh our next item on the agenda and uh I will I will say farewell all right um and um get back onto my office hours okay thank you bye bye go ahead yeah so I put on this item number five town council town council policy regarding the control and regulation of public ways my understanding is a very small change it was in the memo that Paul sent to us and so it's in the packet and um my understanding is we just need to act on this um quickly there's something else coming later related to this but it's not ready and I believe it's going to go to TSO um so I felt that we should just vote on it and then um I believe the council will act on it at the next council meeting I believe it's my understanding so if that's mistaken we can we can hold it off but um it's a very small change it's the underlined um it's the sections that are underlined and I believe it's just in where does it show up twice yeah shows up twice number four in four um and right there right I don't have any um thoughts on this whatsoever it seems to be just a uh the technical change that has to be made anyone have thoughts on this or are they ready to deal with this today I'd like to get this out um and send it to the council in case the council wishes to act on it um so that's why it's here Mandy Joe has her hand up yeah Mandy go ahead please yeah so I have a couple questions one was I know TSO talked about this and probably made a recommendation George you're on TSO so I'm hoping you can tell us whether they made any rather they recommended any changes to what's presented to us um so that we can deal with that if they did um and then I just wanted to say um I'm not sure would surprise this committee I drafted this um and when I did I tried to do what Andy asked which was incorporate sort of that generic state of emergency language so that um you know even if we'd have to modify this if temporary zoning and bylaw goes by the wayside to just get rid of it but otherwise it's it's any state of emergency that this could apply to um and then I wanted to note one thing that the document we're looking at on the computer doesn't note is there's actually a deleted portion in the little i section for a one um you know the language that's being added no no page down right there the the language that's being added after the end of the pertinent state of emergency or the termination date is actually replacing a phrase quote the phrase past the effective date um so you know we had originally passed this with um Paul's authority not to extend 180 days past the date the effective date of the zoning bylaw and so we're deleting the phrase past the effective date and essentially moving it to the termination date of the zoning bylaw along with the state of emergency thing which will allow us to not have to modify this again if we as a council extends the time period for the um effectiveness of zoning bylaw article 14 okay now to answer Manny's question TSO has not made any um changes or recommendations on this so it's thoughts about the changes and from the committee i'm prepared to move forward okay yeah i am too i am okay shall i make a motion please i move to recommend the town council um revise section four of the policy regarding the control and regulation of the public ways as presented by the town manager in his updated november 18 2020 memo okay you might want to try to have we can have the uh the no take or repeat that back it's a bit of a mouthful sorry for the mouthful Emily she may want you she may want you to repeat that you expect me to remember it well i'm not sure but hopefully somebody remembered it um maybe between the two of you we can come up with an agreed motion statement because we are actually recommending this that the council approved this language right yes because that's part of our charge right so okay um Emily do you want to try and read that back and then the two with Mandy listening she can make any changes necessary so if you could start reading that back yeah so what i have is um moves to recommend the town council approve the revised section four of the policy regarding the control and regulation of the public ways as presented by the town manager updated in the 20 i think it was what was it november 18 18 20 20 20 memo that sounds good to me okay all right and is there a second yes so lin seconds no further discussion i'm gonna move me to vote this time i'm gonna begin with the chair the chair votes yes um lin yes andy yes that yes andy yes okay so that vote is five zero um recommending the council adopt this language just change okay all right next item on the agenda is the um our continued discussion of the process timeline for town manager evaluation and performance goals and lin has given us a revised document this is draft number four and we want to go through it and see if we have any changes further um comments etc so if we can get that up as soon as i find it i know i know i want to find the um gives us a break for a minute here i'll be with you in a moment it's all right we can catch our breath it's four right draft four is the is the title now it actually says draft three on the document so i'm hoping that's just a typo that's correct but the title is draft four timeline just make somebody confirm with me that this is the one you have looks like it to me yes yes it is okay all right um so what i was trying to do was get things um arranged properly but i still don't feel i've completely achieved is the shading um and then i also want to just raise one other question um that was raised to me by somebody on the outside and that is should the evaluation process include a time when we actually discuss what constitutes a measure some of the measures for each of these goals and if we do that it seems to me that we would need to ask gol to meet with paul sometime you know early on in you know january february to have that discussion okay we also have a very big block of time in here where it could be done but we're already past those dates so do you want me to start and go through by theme or how would you like to look at this i would thank lin in terms of what areas where you still have i mean unless we hear from our colleagues areas that you still have concerns or questions of your own um you've already raised the issue of measures and i think we're all sort of pondering this um are there other places that you have concerns of your own or you would just like feedback directly i let i put a question here you can see it on the screen and that it should the review of the progress on the town managers goals be in january note that the state of the town address is normally been in december but you know for instance paul and i are both working on each of our state of the town addresses right now right it is not going to be particularly geared toward the goals it's going to be geared more towards what is this year been like you know some of the a lot of which really gets a co vid so my question is really whether these two items should be moved to january remembering that january every other year is when you see a new council right so i mean if they're moved there every other year to begin with which our notes at the bottom say in some sense it almost makes sense to just put them every year got that one i don't know what other people think but yeah it makes it more consistent yeah and then i guess i'll take the opportunity to respond to lin's question if if the council desires to set measurables instead of just here are your goals but also and here's what we're going to measure you on then it's probably better done earlier rather than later um in that you know giving paul the notice of here's how we're going to measure your progress on or your your meeting of you know random policy goal a telling him that in january isn't as helpful as telling him that in july right it's i was i was thinking more about this year which we still haven't done and but should we in you know future years say in july or it's august have a discussion of you know why wouldn't this be part of the process of creating the goals themselves um why would it be a separate um why wouldn't it be the case that as the committee working with the council establishes goals for the coming year part of that discussion would be you know what would constitute measurables um and either incorporate them into the the goals document or create another document i don't know but it seems a little odd to create the a set of goals and then later come back and say well how are we going to measure these it seems like it'd be something you'd be doing at the same time in so far as they can be measured and so um why wouldn't this be part of the the goal setting process itself and either be expressed in the the goal setting document right George it's interesting you say that because it was never part of the goal setting document in the past but when we had the process a year ago not this year but the year before that there was a lot of discussion about how could this be measured and we really didn't do that this time right right i like george's suggestion of including it into the drafting of each year's goals should it be part of the goal statement or an attached document i think you have to figure it out yeah i mean it could also create yeah i feel like it could be easily be separate um but it doesn't seem like that's the most important thing to figure out right this second right so i guess the answer that we're coming to is that it would be part of the goal setting process and in that process it would be determined whether they would be incorporated into the goal document or whether it'd be a separate document right or at least the discussion would take place and right maybe it never gets written down in black and white i don't know but in some sense it would you'd want something in black and white because Paul's looking for you know what are the measurables here what do you you know what's your benchmarks but yeah and it isn't just Paul that's looking for black and white i think we i think it would be helpful to counselors and the public if they were saying if there were measures right and there still would be the ability to input something that was um outside of those particular measures i think but i think it would be helpful okay all right then the other question i have here this is just to bring it back up one more time and should staff and the public have the advantage of seeing Paul's self-evaluation before they are asked to submit their own evaluation that feels weird to me i mean i i feel like why should people be given his self-evaluation and if you're a staff member you might feel funny saying well he's saying that but this is my experience it sets up a odd dynamic um and with the public i think there i can't it feels like there's something there too that makes me uncomfortable i can't name it right this second i agree with pat um you know if we want the public and the staffs and the committee members is true feelings you almost think that that self-evaluation could you know color that um and so i'd rather get it without them having necessarily seen the self-evaluation i feel like the self-evaluation is geared towards us as counselors who have to do the evaluation evaluating not other people who might also submit their own evaluations right right i would second that as well i don't i don't see the uh the need or the advantage of having that available to people in advance um okay yeah now it's my reaction too i just no need to say it again good so uh then moving on to the color coding blue and bold indicate the process for the next fiscal year so that's really right here it's in the goal setting okay um gold indicates the process current fiscal year okay green indicates where council has to take action so hopefully that leaves a couple places where there's no color coding for instance town provides oral present town manager provides oral presentation regarding progress on current goals so if we're going with green is council action d10 probably shouldn't be green we actually say no vote um yeah you know and so maybe it should be green involves maybe the wording isn't right maybe it's not council action but council review or something council i think you can leave it i mean it basically the council has to do something right we have to do and maybe we don't take a formal vote um but basically means that there's something we have to do review or action right right council reviewer action sure council reviewer action okay okay i'll go back and so i had one question uh it was related to the may lines um yeah you know i know i'm the one that talked last time about do we really need a month and we've still got here a month could the may c and d be moved to the third week that gives the council two weeks after receipt of the self-evaluation and everything to submit their own evaluations and it also pushes paul's self-evaluation later into may so that he's definitely doesn't have to work on it while he's finalizing the budget so if we move these two to just the third week of may instead of first week this one also then has to be moved so it all be third week yeah and i think you know we should run this by paul but i'm guessing he'd be happier with not having to submit the budget and four days later or five days later submit a self-evaluation okay so that now let me just go back on the color coding because i'm a little concerned about this town council reviews town manager presents we don't have a color for this well i don't think we need a color okay i do think we need green in the july e column nope at the very first july e at the very top world two because that's voting the current country thank you i just noticed that so all right i'm sorry i flipped through this pretty fast yeah so i had no other comments i thought it looked good so this document will guide um obviously the council but in particular um the president and i assume the chair of g ol right um and also paul and we're going to get input from paul on this and i think it's important if i understand what we're doing that that he be okay with this if he has a problem with and he wants to make some changes we need to consider that and see if that right we want it to be something that we can all live with um particularly the town manager and the council um we're going to run this by the council eventually for their approval i don't know if we resolve this in other words is this basically get approval i think we agreed that it's we want their input but we're not going to have a vote i mean if people have a problem or concern we're perfectly willing to entertain it but we're not asking them to vote on this this is an internal process that g ol is constructing to just facilitate what is a challenging set of uh processes so it doesn't need a vote but it will be presented to the council for their review i guess or discussion or no no i think i think it's good to let the council know because it's changing when we're doing things but i think this is a g ol timeline a g ol process right it's g ol will need to vote on it the council is expecting to see it yes no that makes sense i understand but we're not it's g ol that is is creating this and presenting to them if they have serious problems or concerns they're welcome to weigh in and we'll certainly take it into under advisement but we're not asking for their their stamp of approval we're not asking them to vote on it do we need to vote on it i guess in a way yes i guess we're not ready to do that today i don't think but um at some point we will i don't think we should vote on it until after the council sees it so maybe a vote to that it's ready for the council to see okay for the um it's on the agenda for the monday oh geez monday's maybe a long meeting so if you yeah do you want to actually have it discussed yet or just wanted to get maybe just want to get it out to people and have them start looking at it thinking about it but actually discuss it in some future i don't know what's yeah it's certainly one of the items i would uh either defer to the to um later um it's not what i see is pressing stuff right but if you get time you'll do it if you don't you won't right um okay and i think correct me if i'm wrong all that would mean is a one quick memo transmission from the chair of gol to all the members of the council with this attached i'm sorry what is it that you're asking yeah and then that i mean just throwing it in the packet right whatever and in the report i could simply point out that it's there and um we are soliciting and we could also make this you know i could make this during my oral report um it's there and um we very much want you to look at it and if you have any concerns questions problems you just send them to the chair because we will take them up at our next meeting but we're planning to move on this fairly quickly but we want you to see it and we want you to get back to us so i could do that orally as well as in the report but oral would probably most effective um but we're not going to discuss it hopefully monday it's just noted that it's there and please send comments to us to me and then i would forward them to the committee so can i ask a question should we i would delete those three i agree and i think george these items right here just include as part of the memo okay okay all right well i'm saving this as draft five and i'll put a date on it thank you and send it to you okay that'd be great okay are we done with that i think we are um going forward with this um obviously we're going to wait see what reaction we get a response from the council um what's our next step is a committee with this whole larger issue with this document but also with um maybe that's it now there's once the document is what we vote on in say our next meeting or by early january and then we just start following it no i mean the things it tells us to do the first step is the that is coming up in january is the town manager talks about his goals and if the manager hasn't seen this george or lin should send it to the manager i sent an early on version but i think george why don't you go ahead and send it to him and cc me with it so that i don't necessarily want to adopt it till i know that he thinks he can know it's absolutely right so i would send him this cc lin and tell him that uh you know it's also going to be given to the council but please look it over and you can get back to us with his thoughts we could invite him to the meeting or he could just he's up to him he could come or we could just say he could send his written comments so here's my question shall we just take it off the agenda for monday i would to the 21st well it sounds like george thinks it can be handled just through reporting and right comments directly to him it's in the packet i mean you can put it um if it's in the packet i could simply acknowledge that it's there and tell them why it's there and um ask them to get back to us by you know obviously hopefully before our next meeting or as soon as possible and also send it to paul are you incorporating it in your committee report that's the plan yes um it would be mentioned in the committee report which would be in the packet and this document would be in the packet so it'd be referenced right and then i would bring it up in the oral report briefly just to remind people it works and did you have a problem with that no i just just something i just thought it is an item that was appropriate with the chair's report from on behalf of the committee right right so i just want to mention one other thing when we do adopt it i'm i'm looking towards as a fellow chair of a committee towards when there's new councils we should make sure it goes into the share point under some sort of folder of committee processes or committee policies all of these so that whoever becomes chair can find these types of documents easily okay have you talked specifically mandy joe with athena about that as she organizes yeah it just hit my mind today as i was thinking about this like we're gonna follow it but in a year i have a meeting with her too so let me just write myself a note i have a problem with finance committee i'll mention because it fits right in and that is the finance committee has not been using share point because we have three members who don't have access to share point and we therefore put the packet on the website as opposed to the share point yeah you're muted pat mute pat i was wondering just now for the first time why we don't have the packet on share point and available on the committee page it's probably good to for these things to also show up on each committee page too as as they get adopted so that people see the timelines and all it's just and that's what i mean by share point is the committee page yeah well that's two very different locations they're both i think appropriate um unless see every other committee has that they're they're in both places right um finance is the only one that doesn't because of the non-resident i mean the resident non-voting members right yeah we're trying to not do anything that makes them different sure sure the managed point yeah is that i guess that it doesn't feel to me like that makes them different it makes them unable to access share point but it would is easier for any other counselor so i don't know i will i'm not it's not a big i can talk to a theme about that it's not super important andy so do do what you feel right about okay so we have um dealt with item six um i believe item seven is the update on bylaws of future consideration i um i've told lin and i've said to you that if you have any additions you want to make to that document send them to me directly and i will incorporate them does anyone have anything to report on any actions they've taken i'm not expecting i have to report in the list of things that i feel the council needs to accomplish by next december 31st is this set of bylaws okay it's one of those things we really it's our job right so for gol we need to make sure this gets done okay for the next the next cycle next and and i want to just keep in mind we have at a minimum four general bylaws coming on related to sewer and water and we're going to have a ton of zoning bylaws because mandy chose going to be pumping them out okay and so we are going to be extremely busy on the issue of bylaws as as gol well gol though for most of that is clear consistent and actionable recommendations whereas this group we might be the recommendations for right it's going to be right i understand we might have to start starting our meetings with this group of stuff yeah okay that's well because we're all avoiding it we just a lot of excitement i have to tell you in the process of my actually going and finding my bylaws that i'm supposed to review okay which includes the peeping tom one excuse me that's not the right word which includes peering and peaking isn't it i yeah it is i found that we already have a bylaw about naming streets oh yeah we already have a naming bylaw yeah so okay here you go there's all kinds of fun things to find in there i think where we stand it basically is now everyone has in a sense of their homework and this i'm saying this to myself first of all right so in the future it's people telling me that they're coming back to the committee and say i've done my homework and this is what i've got and that can happen anytime you should give me head heads up you're going to do it but you can do it anytime including even during the meeting but um and i hear Mandy's point that we need to start leading with this soon even if it's first or second item and the answer is nobody has any homework to hand in it might be that the chair needs to tell so-and-so it's your week i guess my question though is i've i've handed in the homework but we i think we just need to talk about the results of the homework in the committee and then pass that on again whether we're doing it or some other project right right right what's the next action step yeah and then start moving on those action steps and it sounds like man you're right so um i will mark that as a future item for our next agenda we'll see we've got a couple of things coming but i hear you um draft calendar i just you know pretty nothing we need to do about it people just look at it and they see any particular problems but it pretty much follows at the moment the schedule we've been following but that's certainly open to change Mandy i had a couple of questions on it yep um march 31st and april 7th i just questioned why we had two two weeks in a row when we could probably get rid of one of them unless we are backed up maybe that was the reason you were thinking no i think it's just a mistake and all yeah um so that that was just a we should probably just pick one of those to delete um november 3rd here here's my thing do we really want to have a meeting the day after the election i'm just gonna put that out there um sure sure that's why yeah okay and then i mean it's it's not necessarily a problem but it is the election we and school committee and all are up for um and then january 5th that this is where all sorts of things come in that the new council is going to be sworn in on the 3rd so i'm not sure january 5th 2022 is an appropriate time to be meeting because i'm not sure there's going to be members of the committee at that point um if the council elects a new president i mean they're going to have to elect a new president and do their elections on the 3rd we know there's going to be changeover it's not going to be the same 13 um so i would actually propose the 19th maybe the 12th but the 19th which would be after i assume the second council meeting of the month um which would give whoever's named president of the new council time to survey counselors and figure out committees sure enough so you suggest the ninth i mean obviously even the day of week and time the week's probably going to change right but if we're going to put a date out there i i wouldn't put january 5th out there i wonder if we should just not even put a date in i don't know i mean it's because committees are going to all have to make up their own minds i don't know i take it out or just put a footnote at the end you know because the last official meeting of the committee as constitution would be december 15th and after that it's somebody else's problem might still be your problem george i don't have a different group of people um so i would suggest you want to put it back i'm sorry i want to put it down it's recommended for the next council's consideration as a footnote or something all right so that gives them something to start with okay the other piece is that if the council starts messing with committee structures bol actually has to take the reins up pretty fast okay so i'm just putting an asterisk next to it and you know in the end someone else will have to figure it out the recommended for next meeting um just acknowledging that it's and i assume that at least for this well i mean this body also needs to choose we'll have to choose a chair and vice chair but i'm just going to assumption that we'll continue to meet on this day and time that could change i understand so what were the other changes mandy just quickly so i i'm gonna we'll move on um we had what was it march in november third i don't necessarily think it's truly a problem you know but election day is the day before um so so there's a potential for depending on what we're considering to given that we're governance that we might not have the right people available for a meeting depending on what it is um we're all still seated at that point yeah right i'm just just consider whether that is a good day or not or whether pushing it a week might be better okay well i think we're gonna leave it for the moment but it can be as we you know um uh we'll see where we stand you had a another issue earlier where there was one in april 7 two in a row with march having three meetings i know other week other months have three meetings because you really did just do one every other day every other week um but i i don't see the need for two in a row unless you were thinking art we were so backed up we'd need it okay um so all right trying to follow the council schedule to george i think that's what i'm trying to do so let me yeah yeah and we ended up having to double up meetings mandy john i that's true i didn't compare it to the council schedule i i assumed that you that's what i was trying to do um so i just looked through yeah i know i think i'm gonna leave it for the moment um we can obviously whoever's chair in the future the committee can can change this but other than that um and the provisional date of january 2022 any other comments or concerns because i'm going to just leave these then they can be changed at a future date no problem but this gives us at least some idea of what we're the committee is committed to for the coming year should we be voting on it so that athena can post it on the committee webpage and get and get emily and all set up for him i think doesn't even need a vote i mean it's just yeah i mean as long as the council schedule so yeah okay we could vote on it i mean basically it just sets up a tentative schedule um are people comfortable voting on it now or do they want to consider it doesn't that mean anytime we change it we have to vote again well we change it all i mean we make changes you know right we don't this is basically just saying this is for the public um and you know obviously for instance if we suddenly change the day of week or the time then we would have to read through everything um so there's no super rush but if things don't uh you know nothing radical changes um this is what we send to athena and she posts it for the public and we use it obviously internally but you know sometimes we have extra meetings right we don't change the schedule we just have an extra meeting and occasionally we might drop a meeting um so it's really more for information's sake um i'm perfectly willing to have a vote on it and then i will send it to athena and come january uh whatever it'll get posted or it can be posted whenever she wants to put it up there i don't know whatever we need to vote but i i think it should get sent to athena okay all right so i'm seeing consensus to send this to athena um and move it from draft to uh the actual uh schedule with the understanding that of course things can change but good we have two sets of minutes we do not have the November 18 minutes uh they're still in production so you've had a long time now to look at these two sets of minutes um anyone have any changes or problems with either set of minutes all right total silence there's no rush here we can take the moment i'm not i'm just looking at my version to see if i have any notes on it uh before i anything that i have is really this typographical kind of you know scrivener things not substantive you could send them to me and i could make those corrections if you wish i can do that i think it'd be easier to just do that then try and do it on the fine rather than do it in real time i agree immediately after the meeting fine that's fine we want to just adopt them as amended right okay well there's no substantive changes and it's just a scrivener and typos then um i think we're okay um i don't see or hear any substantive concerns about wording that want changed or something deleted um there's some minor typos um we can do them now or and and he's going to send his to me um so i'd like to not let me too i'm silent i can pull them up if you want me to um it's it's up to the committee i've looked at them now a lot and i have no changes to make but yes you can put them up if you like um but i don't see anybody who seems to have anything substantive to make changes on so i just assume we move to a vote uh to adopt both sets of minutes for uh october 21 and november 4 as amended or as to be amended second in october 21 is the only one that i have two teeny things on fine just send them to me and you know make the change we have a motion second anyone i'll second i heard a motion fine maybe just second i don't care who's fine um so chair says yes pat yes andy yes andy yes then yes thank you um i have no items not anticipated we do not have any public presence so there will not be any public comment i want to talk briefly about future agenda items um our next meeting december 16 we plan to have um interviews and a vote on the thin cop i don't think that would take up to assuming we could do it all in the morning session i don't think that will take up two hours but i'm not yet ready to put facial recognition on the agenda because i'm afraid that might take up more time than we have but that's what else is out there um any other thing would be out there is if tso gets through with the larger issue of the public ways changes run that could be out to us right um i think i think that we want to get back to you know for instance the thing nandy joe suggested which was to start looking at those bylaws good they're enough okay so surveillance coming up but for not for a while okay well you have facial recognition which they're separate george they're separate i understand and um my thought was that to hold that off until january but um it could right that's what okay all right yeah and surveillance crc won't see it src gol won't see it till the end of january at the early right right so at the moment we're looking at possible public ways and we're looking at obviously interviews that's really going to take up a good bit of our time interviews and then vote and the bylaws right all right and then minutes minutes yeah all right that's uh i'll have thank you sir all right so very efficient meeting uh i'm exhausted george i'm out of here all right take care everyone see you all soon all right uh safe travels tomorrow mandy thank you pat yeah take care all right thank you i'm paul us if you need road company i got a book