 So, and the zoning administrators, Tom Bedowski, for the applicant, please introduce yourselves. Hi, Sean. Okay, I'm Sean Cunningham from O'Leary Berks Civil Associates. Good evening, I'm Pablo Maderos from Heidenberg Properties. Paul O'Leary from O'Leary Berks Civil Associates. Julie Curtin from Down Street Housing and Community Development. My question is my strategy is to consultant for Heidenberg. On the screen. David Roy, I'm the architect for Weeman-Lampier Architects, working for Heidenberg North. And Simon, vice president of real estate, Heidenberg Properties. Do you have anyone else? Heidenberg North. Jason Losar, Heidenberg Properties. And Kevin Warden with Engineering Ventures, working for Heidenberg North. Very good. What are you looking for here? I'd like a chair for Christy. Oh, Christy. Now, Recording Secretary, Christy. Thank you. Thank you. You need a minute to set up. There's an Alex Aftop. Not you guys. Alex is one of the architects working on the project for Weeman-Lampier. Okay. John Sol. Yes. I have to move it 730 to go to the very top the left board this evening because I just wanted to give you a heads-up tonight. Sorry, I didn't quite hear you. She has to leave. Yeah, I believe it's 730 to go to the very top one. Okay, very good. That door is a good exit door. Exit left. Okay. In that case, I'm going to swear and everybody tends to give testimony before the sport tonight. The first step, you tend to give testimony. Please raise your right hand. Swear and tell truth, nothing but truth. The matter is before this board tonight under penalties of perjury. I did. I did. Thank you. So we have a sketch plan review. So we're really not expecting action per se tonight. But we're going to go over proposed plans which I've seen the site plans so far and that's all we've seen. So I'd like to ask the applicant who's representing the applicant to start off by telling us what we're looking at here tonight. And if you're a humorer of the board, this is the new zoning regulations. I think this is the first time we've actually reviewed something in this zone, which is a new zone for us. Excuse me, officer, Julie needs to leave at 730. Yes. But before we get into the meet, maybe if she wanted just to clap her end of the project. All right, that'd be perfectly all right with me, as that's okay with the, you're not the applicant per se, but you are. I'm sure, and I can be very brief and just appreciate the courtesy to have the opportunity to address the board and introduce myself a little further. As I said, I'm with Down Street Housing and Community Development. So we are a co-developer with Ever North and we will be a co-owner of the Fox Run Housing Project, which is part of the application that you are reviewing this evening. It's a 30 unit, mixed income, affordable housing, multi-family project. And we're just thrilled to be here and to be working with the mall and the town and we've had a part of conversations about the Newtown Center now for a number of years and excited to be really stepping forward to provide housing in an area that's an exciting place to see housing come in where it's really needed for the community. So other than just to clarify, Down Street is here as the, we will also manage the housing. Once it's built, we will be the property manager and the onsite every day as a property. So I'm happy to answer questions about our role but I'll let others talk about more of the specifics and technical details of the sketch plan. Okay. Tom, do you have any comments with regard to this application? Thank you for coming. Yeah, thanks for having me. Questions by the board members? Charles, any questions? Nope. Thanks. I guess I have one question and again, you will be operating and owning the facility, is that correct? That's correct. Will Down Street be operating and owning? Is that who's the entity? Well, so we will have with Evernorth, the property will technically be owned by a limited partnership of which Evernorth and Down Street will be the co-general partners. And we will have, you know, as part of our financing, we will also have an equity investor in our project, but we will, so we will be a co-owner in the partnership that will own the building and the partnership will contract with Down Street to be the property manager. So it's our staff who will do applications for new residents and get people leased up and help people, you know, we will manage the building, we will manage the mechanicals and do the maintenance and oversee the grounds of the property. It's probably not really relevant to the application, but will you have a representative on site full-time? We will not, we have property managers who manage multiple properties and maintenance steps. So we often have people parking and going, but we won't have someone dedicated on site, you know, as a regular office sort of staff. Thank you. You're welcome. So I just have a question. So you and Evernorth are the developers? Correct. As partners, as the developers? Okay. And in the fostering housing? Okay. Yep. If not, we'd like to add anything to that. No need to add, that was a good description. Thank you, Julie. Hi, by the way. Thanks for being there. It'll be nice when we all be together. Yeah. Well, actually, given the number of people we have here in this size of this room, probably not well. We're crowded and all. All right. Unless there's something on the down street part of this, we'll move over to an overall description of the site and the properties as how it meets sort of your show. This is a sketch plan review. There's really no precedent for this. In our bylaws, it's sort of a thing we get together here and get an opportunity to event a little bit and. Sure, I'm going to go first. Where would you like me to sit here? I'm going to put my back to the camera or? Why don't you sit where the camera can be turned toward you? Okay. So maybe perhaps sit next to Paulie. You would? So I'm Paul O'Leary with a Larry Burke civil associates. I am Heidenberg properties civil engineer. You've seen me before with doose bits and chests, not place. That was another project that we did. So I'm just going to talk to the generalities at first. So we're looking at developing what's known as Outlaw A and Outlaw C. If you look on the sketch plan, you can see Route 62 at the bottom. You can see the existing entrance road into the mall. The two buildings colored in brown are the two buildings that we've proposed. The affordable housing building, Fox Run. And then a Starbucks restaurant would be the first building in on your right. You can see on the very top of the screen is the Chestnut Place building that you've all seen well under construction. And you can just see the edge of Walmart on the very top of the screen. So we're certainly aware of your new town center. And we're aware that there's been a number of hoops that the town has had to jump through in order to qualify for your downtown development district. And we do understand that you have a current zoning regulation that addresses the new town center, but you've been asked to modify that with some addition conditions and where those conditions town has sent us to it. So without getting into the specifics of the zoning race, because there's still kind of influx a little bit here, I just wanted to be known that Heidenberg-Frobby's intention is to fully comply with the new town center requirements. All right, so whatever that comes down the road, we're gonna roll with the punches and we'll make the adjustments that we need to comply. All right, so that's the most important thing that we want to relay to you folks tonight is we're on board, we're on board with the new town center. We wanna go forward. So when you look at the plan, it's a little bit confusing to be honest. We have a section that's shaded in dark and that's a portion of the Berlin access road. That's the new road that would serve the Fox Run housing project and the Starbucks. And then as you continue on in gray, you can see the future alignment that's shown with the new town center, right? So the road would come in and then it would go across. So we're also aware that, there's still an outstanding issue with the school district. The town has yet to acquire that property and obviously until the town acquires it, we can't develop it. It's pretty hard to develop on land that you don't own. It's been done before, but we don't recommend it. So in a perfect world, that school district issue would get resolved in the next two to three months. And when we came back to you, we would have a full set of plans that would show the road in the new alignment, details, profiles, cross sections, the whole bit. And we would come back and say, we're coming back and we're gonna build the road in the new alignment with the sidewalks, the bike paths, the streetscapes, the street lights, all the things that the town center requires along of course, with our two new buildings. Now, in terms of timing, the Fox Run building typically has construction length of somewhere between 10 and 12 months. We're hoping that we can start construction in the spring. So if we started construction say in April of 22, the building actually wouldn't be ready to occupy until roughly in March or April of 23. Starbucks is a little quicker. If we started construction in April of 22, there's a fairly good chance that Starbucks might be ready to be open by the holidays of that same year, but hard to say exactly. So the timing is important for us. Obviously we need to get that Fox Run building started because it's such a long, not long, but it's a typical timeframe. Like we've seen Chestnut Place, which is a much bigger building. I think they're running 13, 14 months for construction before they're ready to go. So 10 to 12 months is actually fairly decent for a 30 unit building. So as I said, in the perfect world, we'd have the school district property wrapped up. We'd come back in front of this board in a few months with a full design showing the road right where the new town center plan shows it. Meet all the requirements of the Downtown Development District and away we go. However, we're not, no one's sure that the school district is gonna happen. So the reason for the two colors on the plans is that if the school district acquisition gets delayed at some point in time, we would come back to you with the same set of plans, a full design of the new town center road and everything shown on the plan, but we would ask for a phase construction. So what we would ask is phase one construction would be everything that's shown in the dark gray. And when the school district property came available, then we would construct phase two, which would be the completion of the alignment. Now the plan shows a number of stormwater areas on it. And some of that has to do with, we're not sure where we're gonna build in. In a perfect world, we would put the stormwater on the school district property. It's the lowest portion. We can easily gravity drain all our stormwater to it. It's a spot that's really not that well suited for building construction. So we'd love to build the gravel wetland or build our storm pond there. But if for some reason from the school district property isn't available to us in say the next six months or something, we're gonna have to shift gears and we're gonna have to probably do some alternative stormwater design. That's where you see some of those other spots where we say potential stormwater because we're hedging our bets a little bit. It's possible that we might even do two full stormwater designs to try to keep this thing going. And then again, we would be delighted if the school district issue was settled in the next couple of months. It would certainly make it a lot easier for us. But we need to move forward. So when we did a chestnut, we made some provisions to extend the gravity sewer out that way. So we're gonna gravity sewer all these properties. We made provisions to extend the waterline out there for the waterline all through the Berlin Malt. Property has now been taken over by the water district. So we're all set to extend that out. So in good shape there. Not officially yet, but it's close. Yeah, they inspected it all. We built it all for their specifications. So, you know, we're in fairly good shape. Obviously we're showing a couple of great potential buildings, parking lot between the town alignment and the Starbucks. You know, those are just kind of placeholders. We don't could be one building, could be two building, but we're trying to reflect what the Newtown Center Center plan shows. Did you point out on the sketch plan, the buildings, you know, the potential buildings? If we do get this because it's hard to read. But these light areas are. So essentially, this is the potential building area that we have for the Heidenberg property folks. Obviously there's potential building area on the school district probably that we haven't shown, but we just basically have a building that's similar in size to Fox Run. Shown here in gray with the idea that, you know, that's a possibility. We know it could be something completely different. Could be a couple of small buildings. And that would be parking behind it. Parking behind it. That's correct. It'd actually be a through street because part of your Newtown Center wants a block. And so it would be a tight B or a tight C street, but it'd be on street parking. It'd be a regular street going through. It would have street lighting sidewalks, all the elements that your zoning regulations are currently. There are no C streets. So it would likely be a B street. What's that? There are no C as in cat streets in the Newtown Center. It would be likely be a B as in boys. Oh. And that's why the plan has changed quite a bit in just the last couple of weeks because originally the Newtown Center plan had a C street. And a C street was like a through street. You didn't require parking along it. I'm not even sure it had to be occurred, but. This isn't a C street then? Oh, it's a B street. No. That's a B street. So part of the requirements on the downtown development is I believe is that you amend your zoning and eliminate C streets. So we've been juggling like our plan. We now show parallel parking spaces along that main road going in because that's going to be your apartment of your zoning. And again, coming back to where we understand the zoning regs are in flux, we're on board. We'll do what we need to do to move this forward. Excuse, Mr. Chair, if I'd like to just add something to you. So Paul is correct. There was a series of streets with our applications to the downtown board. They came back with a condition that only A, B and P as in Paul streets would be allowed. So it was a discussion amongst the town, the select board planning mission, all the property owners that are involved in Newtown Center, including the hospital, the auto dealership entities, Berlin malls, Fox Run, Ducevich was invited. So all those entities met and it was decided because the town was really considering not accepting the Newtown Center as it was conditioned. And at a meeting on March 29th, 2021, all these individuals came together via Zoom and such. And it was unanimously voted that all parties would accept those conditions. They all agreed to it. And so again, I wanna stress because we may hear this in future projects, our zoning regulations have not been yet changed to reflect that, but all the property owners that are impacted by this were at that meeting and agreed. And I'll let Heidelberg, they can attest to that fact as well, but that's the case. So that explains it inconsistent. Forever though. This is good. So obviously we're here tonight just to sketch plans. So we have a simple plan, kind of busy plan, but relatively simple, not a tremendous amount of detail. We have some elevations of what the post Starbucks might look like. If you'd like to see that, we have some preliminary elevations of what the Evernor Fox Run building might look like that we can certainly share with you. When we come back, we'll have a full blown traffic report. We'll use Roger Dickinson, we did the traffic report for Chestnut Run. We'll have a full landscaping plan. We'll have a lighting plan and we'll have a food scape. We'll have stormwater details, all the things that you're gonna expect to see for a full set of plans when we come back next time. So I'll turn it over to maybe Pablo and you can talk about Starbucks a little bit and just let him know what it is and we can flip the plan over. John, I hope I'm gonna find that right one. Anybody has any questions or wants to make a comment? Just raise your hand. I think I see most people and I'll try to acknowledge you. Yeah, I think they're pretty much all our teams. We lost our team, remember, Carla. No, I'm here. It's just the sun's been coming in so I shut the camera off. Paul, you may want to share the pointer. I'm gonna walk over and grab. The technology is increasing, but slowly. Yes. Okay, all right. I'll walk over to the camera though, we were saying. They've all seen it. Okay, so this is a 2,500 square foot Starbucks. This is the elevation, the rendering shows just three different color palettes, whichever the talent has a preference of the three, but this is a preliminary kind of just an idea of what this Starbucks is gonna look like. The shape is consistent. The general color palette will be any of these that you see here. And it's 55 seats inside and out. It's got a drive through. And the parking associated with it on the site will be unique and specific to the Starbucks. You can see there's a seating area outside has umbrellas. There's a railing around it to protect it. But this will be visible as you enter in from the Berlin Wall Road entrance. The drive through will be around the back. It will be along the, in the second phase, it'll be parallel to the first street that was looting to earlier. You have any similar facilities in the general area? There is one that was constructed, I believe, in 2019 in Pessex Construction. Right on the corner of Susie Wilson Road and Road Drive Team. Just right in front of Lowe's. In the Lowe's and then there's a people's night back on that corner. Easy boy, that's true. There was also another Starbucks over my top, or my Costco that just went in. Yeah, that's more, that's a little different. That's not a single on-store, it's not a drive through. The one on Susie Wilson is kind of a stand-alone store. One on Susie Wilson have a drive through too? Oh, yes. Yes. Well, particularly during COVID. Yeah. Very much the only way they operated, they opened right about time COVID hit. And so without the drive through, they would have been on a business fairly quickly. So I have a question in terms of, Starbucks in downtowns, do those have drive-throughs? Initially, I guess some of the older ones probably do not, but if Paul was alluding to with the onset of the pandemic, Starbucks and pretty much any national restaurant chain was, it was trying to figure out ways to do drive-throughs so that they could stay in business. So more and more retailers' restaurants are instituting drive-throughs. So it's part of their normal function, I think over the, probably the last, I don't know how old the one, any of the downtown ones would be, obviously if it's more of a pedestrian type of area, Yeah, well, that's what this is supposed to be, is a pedestrian area, that's why I was, so I'm thinking it. I understand that, the most of the people who come to our shopping center are driving there. So they're being positioned along Route 62, it would allow people to drive there, enter into off of Route 62, into Grill and Wall Road, enter into the drive-through and come back out and get that Route 62 and proceed on their way. I think that's an important point. Michael, say who you are. Yeah, Mike Reschman, plant strategy, some work that might work. I think it's important to think about the whole site plan for the new town center, and that this particular site is a border site, if you will, a frame site, it's one of the entry sites. And so it's not at the heart of the new town center, there's certainly gonna be pedestrian connections to this. And I think it sort of provides a transitional use from more car-oriented, or car-oriented use is outside the bounds of the new town center, and then we get part of the new town center, where things will be more pedestrian-oriented and closer to the government. Nevertheless though, there is the, as Paul pointed out, there are sidewalks that go down the streets. The pedestrian traffic is certainly gonna be welcome at the Starbucks, and as I pointed out, there is an outdoor seating area as well, which will probably only be usable about four months out of the year, but. Yeah, dynamics of the retail world has really changed since COVID. Before, we had the restaurants that typically wanted to drive through and obviously the banks. But now you're looking for the regular retailer, is looking to have a drive-through, because so much of the business came from people ordering and letting, if not a drive-through, at least an area where you can pull up in park and they bring stuff out. So it's really, everyone's talking about, what am I gonna do if there's another pandemic that comes through? So it really has changed the way folks, yeah. They're willing. Tom, do you have something? Yeah, I do. Michael, you bring a, I think a very telling point to this conversation. So this spot is a gateway toward new town center, right? So, in my mind's eye, my personal opinion is that there needs to be some sort of wild factor. I don't know how you define that, but that, and we, I think we do a fairly decent job in our zoning regulations, pointing some things that could show up a wild factor. And I don't know if you've given that consideration here, a tower or a plopper, or I'm just. No, we absolutely have. This is just a representation of what a typical Starbucks looks like. These weren't prepared specifically for this meeting. We didn't have that really at the time that we could do that. So as Paul pointed out for our subsequent preliminary application, we'll have renderings, sites of, excuse me, I can speak, site-specific renderings. And that's, we have talked about putting in a tower so that, to give you that exactly, that wild factor as you come into the new town center. That's where it went. Thank you. Good luck. We'll see you from the interstate. That would be, that would be better. That would be even better. Starbucks would really like to be good at advertising. Everybody has some issues with that with some of the tonic boards. We don't have any. Yes, Mike. Yes. We've been looking at gateway elements at both the Fisher Road entrance and through 62 entrance. We've been working with some of the same team that we've worked with of a big arc, a little arc installation that we did four or five years ago at the mall itself. And that's not to say that there can't be things done on the Starbucks site itself, but in terms of a wild factor, a gateway, it may be that that elements make more sense to be focused more on the actual gateway itself. So that regardless of whether you're coming to Starbucks or any specific place at the new town center, everyone coming in will experience that wild element. And again, we're in the early stages of brainstorming that and so on. And that could be a separate element that we come in with at the appropriate time. It's interesting. And I'll just Google Starbucks and there are thousands of different designs out there. It's pretty incredible what they have done. I have a question. The second story, is there a use in that? There is no second story. That's actually, it's that tall to block all the rooftop equipment. Okay. So I'm sure there are probably some folks who don't wanna see that. So it's already planned for. You need to run. Yeah. Yeah, we've got about maybe 30 seconds. I'm looking out for very town. Good neighbor. So thank you actually. Are there any questions you have for me before I pick it up? We're digesting this now, but I don't think so. Okay. Any questions, please raise your hand. I see no hands left there. And that Morris here with Evernork, it's a partner and architect and engineer as well, so. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. You too. You're not gonna send an alarm off? No. Thank you. Why don't you flip it over Pablo to the other elevation that maybe one of the team members on Zoom can talk about quickly about what their thoughts are on what the Fox Fund building is going to look like. Yeah, I've never wanted to get back to the straight plan. So we have the elevation sketch up that you provide it. Someone would like to discuss that briefly. Okay. Matt, do you want me to go? So I can't see what you have on the board. I sent it to them yesterday, but the building is a 30 unit multifamily building with a mix of a single bedroom and two bedroom units on three levels proposed to have a flat roof with equipment on top and common area spaces on the first level that support kind of a community living environment. We have one entrance that enters in the building we have one entrance that enters in to the north onto the mall property road. And then there's one that a small entry that comes in that accesses the street that connects the mall property road with the Starbucks up beyond. And then we have parking on the south side that supports the 30 units of parking that support the tenants for within. The materials are gonna be, we haven't selected colors yet. So this is just a representation of the different textures throughout, but we'll try and keep neutral or earth tone materials of a cementitious board type finish. So like a hardy plank or certain teed cement board with some wood accents and other amenities. So it's very similar to what they have in downtown Berry for a similar property. What's the address of that property? What's that? What's the address of that property? You know the address of that? Down in Berry city? I'm mute now. Summer Street, correct? Okay. I think. Technically, it's on Keith Avenue. It's on the corner of Summer Street and Keith. Okay. It's the Down Street office as well. So if you were to Google Down Street, that's the address. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Did you have anything else you want to do in your presentation or do you want to talk site plan? No. No, we're all. Erin, you'd like to ask questions about at this point in time. No, not really. I mean, I think we're gonna talk to Tom as we go forward and determine just what the street should look like. Exactly. What is the cross section? What do we want for walks? What do we want for space between the walks? And kind of nail that down and at least get some sort of understanding what the board and what the town would like to see. And then essentially we'll go forward with our streets. So, Paul, have you gone through your analysis of these two buildings with respect to page 2.10, the B streets, the build two line, the parking setback line? Have you gone through those? I believe we have. And I think we're set to reveal with us. Yeah. So I think because this is new regulations for myself as well as this board, that if you could put a spreadsheet together and show what this is the regulation, this is what's on the street's gonna be. But much as we've had last year, Prince Bates has said your requirement isn't yet what we've done, type of thing at all. It's helpful. Yeah, we can certainly do that. It's helpful in educating this board who's not familiar with this regulation. Well, none of us are, so it's educating all of us. Right. If there's, yeah, go ahead, Paul. What about public transit? There's a stop in front of the mall, but what will there, I just don't know, will the other housing have a stop there or where is the closest public transit stop? So the closest is probably the mall. I mean, they don't have to go to the mall. We can have that conversation with public transit. Usually they don't like to have too many stops, too close together. Every time they stop, it lengthens the route time, but certainly something we could talk about. So whether or not you want it in another stop or whether the one stop in front of the mall is insufficient. They're pretty proactive in looking at that and looking at the effective solutions, recognizing they have schedule to maintain, but they also need ridership. So, like. Right. Just thinking with the two housing projects there, people coming with bundles of groceries or whatever, you know, that might not want to walk too far. I think perhaps the point might be made, is just as we're going along with this, reach out to the public transit, let's let them know what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And see if they have any thoughts and start to think ahead. I guess, you know, I'm an engineer, so you're going to ask sight questions. The entrance, both places where you enter onto the mall and the road. The first one is, as you enter, how far is that from the intersection with Route 62? Our property is about 125 feet in from the edge of Route 62. I'm talking about the right. I'm interested in the driveways. The driveways. Or it's really not a driveway, it's a road, it's a beast. So from Route 62 to the B Street is 150 feet. 150 feet, that's what it looked like. I wasn't sort of working with this drawing, didn't have a scale. At least not that I could read. So 150 feet. Have you thought about that? I mean, I realize that's probably part of our old plan. The original design, is it, Tom? It is. It matches your plan. Yeah. Nobody asked me my opinion on that one either, but it was a series of public hearings. I think 150 feet is certainly on the short side. But I think what you're gonna see is that the nature of the mall road is gonna change. I mean, right now you pull in there and it's like, you know, pedal down, go, you know, you're getting in. But now with the new alignment and with the street, you've got the sidewalks, more pedestrian friendly, you've got the 90 degree corner, you know, as you go. And I think you're gonna see that, you know, speeds are gonna be different. It's not gonna be as high speed road as it is now. You know, it's just not gonna be able to go that fast. I think that's the attention. I think what needs to be baked into this is these traffic calming structures, you know, where bump outs for pedestrian crossings. The T intersection, maybe it becomes a rotary. I don't know if that helps. Gateway thing or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Slows, yeah. Visually slows people down. Okay, I can't help but be concerned. It's close. That was fine. You got a slip entrance, which I don't like. I'm not a fan of slip entrances. And that may be something that we'll want to think about in the long term. Help me with the slip entrance. Basically, you got a separate lane that allows people traveling westbound to slide off and slide off. They don't have to even, you know, they just barely take a glimpse to their left to see if somebody's coming. That's about it. So they're moving. Although I don't know, I don't, I'm a frequent user. I don't see a lot of speeding on that. That's because the road is so fast. That's a traffic calming, that's a traffic calming. I'm glad to say that in front of the app. And you're not smiling. Yeah. And you're not smiling. That's a traffic calming. That's right. That's a traffic calming. And then of course the other place where the B Street again goes back to the entrance road is it, it's offset from the exit from Chess Not Place. Yes. And I'm not a fan of that. And our bylaws actually speak to that. But it's not prohibited. It's just discouraged. But really. That's how this works. If you want to do this. Yes. So moving it up to the line, it's just really compromises the space that's left on the inside of the building. It gives the ever north building a lot more room than it needs. And it really shrinks the usable space. You know, to the West. So. I would agree. Ideally, we'd line up, but. We are matching what the, the new town center plan shows. So we're right, pretty much right on. Any argument as, as site plan designers to. Actually move that further away from the other. We're sort of the midpoint. Making the other lots a little bit larger. Yeah, we can look at that. It just depends on how much the Fox run gets squeezed. As you go to the East on the Fox run property, you start running into a class two wetland. The parking lot and the building itself, but there's the potential to maybe, you know, get another 20, 30, 40 feet, you know, which every little bit would help. So it just, it just, you know, yes. I don't envision a lot of traffic on that other road. It is two ways. If I remember correctly, Tom. So, so, so both of me two way ones are street. Once I had once an entrance, but. I don't know. I don't remember what kind of traffic lines they projected. Just one of those things I don't want. And apparently I try to avoid it. Sometimes you can. But I didn't also thought to myself, if these lots here were a little bit larger, could these be used to be utilized differently? You know, Yeah. Yes, they could more marketable. Did you look at if. The school sale went through before you started building. And so you knew this road would be in, did you look at turning the Starbucks. So that it was parallel to this road. We have not looked at that. We pretty much looked at the new town center plan. We looked at the new town center plan. And we made a decision that we need to stick as close as possible. To the plan. We're just nervous that if we start rotating things and moving roads and stuff, then the downtown development board might come back and say, Hey, this isn't what we've approved. This cross street is critical. For us to keep our designation. Yeah. Okay. So, so being careful to say to the plan as much as we can. Yeah. That cross street could be a lot of cross street. That's what I was, where I was going, but yes, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not encouraged. I'm just, just had quite a question was, did you look at it? Right. Would get rid of that. I'm just, I'm just getting to one or from, as opposed to. Midway point. It's a closest point to. To the. The road. And it's current configuration. It's current alignment. Yeah. I was just. That was a current configuration. You couldn't. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, the current configuration you've couldn't. But even if we could, I mean, if the Starbucks is about configuration. Yeah. Yeah. I really was looking at that so much. Yeah. Actually extending that a little bit. So he came back out in midpoint. Well, I believe these are parking spaces baked in here. I took a. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry, right along this edge, this B street. The street requires on street parking and they incorporated that into it. The comment about public transportation, we could certainly utilize, you know, three or four of those. The parking spaces, it's a bus stop there. You just restart to put the sign up and the bus could pull in and load on load there. You're talking about the mall access road, right? Yes. I thought that was a C street. No, it is in here. Okay, thank you. But there are no streets. In the new town center, other than a B and P. All the other ones go away. Right. I mean, to be honest, we have some reservations about the Berlin mall road being a B street and having parallel parking a lot. We a lot of traffic comes and goes with truck traffic that comes to go. But that is going to be a requirement of its own regulation. And we're committed to meeting that. And it slows the traffic. How many parking spaces are provided in each of those? There's 30 spaces for Fox Run. Remember how many? So that's one. 27 for Starbucks. And what is that based on the 27 for Starbucks? Starbucks, to be honest. They have a certain requirement for stacking distance for the drive through. And then we're parking spaces. Obviously Starbucks operates thousands. Of these units around and they have a lot of data. And they're very specific in what their requirements are. They're good to work with in terms of building architecture and making changes and things like that, but they have certain things that they require to make their restaurants. Successful. And that's what that plan is based on. And you proposed. Park parking that's perpendicular to the. Yes. Yes, on the B street. Yes. And that's section of the B street. Yeah, that's actually the street. Yeah. Are you comfortable with that? Yes, we are. Yeah. So will you, will this be landscaped at all? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really big parking area compared to the size of the building. We think that most of the traffic on that B street will be Starbucks. So later, you know, there'll be some traffic going to Fox run, but, but Fox run. You know, 30 unit Fox one building off the top of my head. Generates about six tenths of a PMP trip per unit. So we're only talking about 18 trips. So. We don't see a lot of traffic. So. You know, we don't anticipate that people are going to cut through. The Starbucks parking lot. You know, to get the Walmart, to get the chest. To get, you know, someplace else is just a slow way to go. So we think that we'll be okay with the. When those parking spaces do that. The reality is that may be a destination. When people will come there. We'll turn around. maybe a destination point and people will come there and we'll turn around and leave again. That's quite possible, yes. Has there been any thought and any justification of making that ancillary street a one-way street? Well, we haven't thought about that, but that's a possibility. I mean, your zoning regulations seem to encourage two-way traffic on your streets. You know, our initial read of it was like, we wanted to be two-ways and not one-way streets. So that's what we've shown. You're talking about the street, you're going around the back to pick up? You know, it's kind of like right here. Oh, that, no, okay. Yeah. Because there's perpendicular parking alone. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you know, force of habit for me, I said a question, I was driving a 19 foot long truck out there. It doesn't turn into those things well at all. Right, right. Yeah, and so if it was a one-way, we changed it to diagonal parking. It was a lot easier to get in. But I'm not, I'm not sure your regulation's really. Well, I don't see a week to that. I don't think they encourage that amount of time. It's not a possibility. And again, we're always nervous with the downtown development folks, I think. My guess is the downtown folks are going to want to wait traffic on the streets. Yeah, when we traffic, it looks too much like private drives. One day on the street. This is a classic project with too many cooks in the kitchen. I mean, it's hard when we think about, you know, obviously we need to satisfy this board, first of all, but we've got the active community commission, we've got the downtown development folks, you know, we've got people who are providing the funding. Obviously, I have a big say, so there's a lot of folks throwing their two cents in and manipulating it. So we're trying to keep all the balls in the air and keep the thing moving the best we can. Kyle, you have any questions? Not about the plan. I'm wondering when you will apply for Act 250. Will you do it in conjunction with our application or will you wait? We'll probably do it in conjunction with applying to this board. And you're going to be prepared for them, right? Yes, we will. The other thing is going to be, that's going to be a big piece of this. Well, we went through it with Chestnut, so we understand what they'll be looking for. Well, by that time, we'll be a new board. Three new appointments. Yeah. But I think what's now a place is this designation. I think that gives greater appeal to an Act 250 application. I really do. Anything further you'd like to run by us or tell us at this point in time? I believe so. Someone else? Yes, Tom. Well, I would just like to say thanks to Heidelberg. Heidenberg. Heidenberg. Heidenberg. Heidenberg. Merlin Mall. Yeah. Merlin Mall. Merlin Mall. Now, Elsie. Downstreet. This has been a work in progress. And thank you for this effort and your commitment to this project. It will speak volumes to the people who aren't attending this meeting. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. We're excited. We're excited to get it going. I know we think the downtown designation, despite the hoops is great, you know, the Newtown Center designation, that obviously it's going to bring you funding. It's going to bring a lot more possibilities for the mall as we go forward into the center part of the mall. So we're hoping this is going to turn out as good as everybody hopes it is. I think it's only going to be successful. Well, this is the kind of development we want to see here. So, you know. Yeah. Good. Yeah. It shouldn't bring a lot of people to the area. Yes. We're coping with learning our own new regulations and applying them properly without bias. Right. Yes. So. Well, there are no other questions. So, what are you thinking about coming in with an application? Well, we have a lot of work, you know, to do the full plan, but ideally we would like to apply to the town sometime in October. Thinking that October, maybe early November, thinking that there's going to be a little bit back and forth between staff and ourselves. But hopefully we'd get in front of the board in December, expecting at least two meetings in front of the board. There's certainly no big things that we need to work out and come back with. But we would, you know, ideally we'd like to be here in December, wrap it up in January and basically, you know, make our activity application around the 1st of January also. So, again, we're hoping for an April start. That would be ideal for us. So for this board's edification, that the town of Berlin has received a grant to look at a bike and pedestrian. And they've included some of that assets on their plan. Scoping study, we'll probably sign the contract this week for that consultant. We've just found, Friday, we were just awarded an $80,000 grant to look at a scoping study on Fisher Road Diet there, which I think would really benefit all parties. They get pedestrian friendly. And so just going through the RFP process on that to select a consultant. So there's a lot of good things happening here. So we've got a great story to tell. And I hope everybody tells the story because it's just a wonderful story. Sorry about that. Yeah. And one additional comment is on the new road alignment that comes in, you know, if you look at the plan closely, you'll see that it does impact a class two wetland. Small portion of it comes up. So one of the very first things that we're going to do after tonight is we're going to contact the state and use our wetland consultant. And I'm going to start the process in obtaining a wetland permit to impact that. It's a relatively small impact because the fact you have the new town center plan is a designated plan and it shows it where we have a fairly high level of confidence that we'll be able to negotiate that process for the state. We don't expect to impact the wetland or the wetland buffer anywhere else in the project, at least in this phase of the project. I can't say in future phases, but what we will be pursuing that, we realize it's on school, this property, but we can start that process and get it moving because it is a sole process to get a conditional use determination from the state. Is that the boundary you're showing? Is that the wetland boundary? Is that the buffer? That is the wetland boundary, not the buffer. So in addition to that, you've got some influence on the buffer. We've got a buffer impact and a wetland impact. But that permit typically takes six to nine months in the process. So if we're going to be ready for April, we need to go. We've made that commitment to start. Is that an excellent opportunity for mitigation there, I would think? Yes. We'd love to build a big gravel wetland next to it. That would be ideal for a stormwater. Part stormwater use would make a lot of sense. It's the perfect spot. Absolutely. It would be great. Okay. Other questions? Comments. How about we wrap this up? All right, we thank the board for your time and listening to what we have to say. Thank you. Good job. Thank you very much. Yeah. I think it's great that you've come in now just to get us all thinking about this. There's a lot of pieces to this one. So it's gotta take a while or so. We've been thinking about it for a long time. Yeah. Now we're ready to do it. We're ready to stop thinking and do it. Really good to be here tonight. Really good to be here. I'm really excited. So. This was a sketch plan review of what we've been hearing so we don't have to close this hearing. And then I think we've had a good chat. I do have one other item on the agenda tonight if we've done this item, right? Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you again. It's been a couple of years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We have a set of minutes, which I don't even remember which ones they are now. Oh, God. Last meeting I missed. Wait a minute. June. June seven? Yeah. You know, June, that's the one I missed. Really, June. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Good night. Thank you very much for your presentation. Thank you. Well, I believe I've probably normally asked them, I'm sorry I've got pretty too many questions right now. I'm pretty sure that I made whatever versions. Thank you. I don't know if they were in the edits. I'm trying to think back. They may not be there in the edits. Yeah. That was a couple of minutes. Here too later to be named. Minutes of our last meeting. Yeah. Well, we did have some discussion as I recall. I mean, we did email stuff. I think you made some suggestions and you said you did it. It looked all looked good. So I will. So I'll have a tourist motion here. Okay. Most of the meetings are seconded by John. Yep. To approve the minutes. And almost agree that motion gets in five percent. Comments on the course? Most agree with that motion gets in five percent. Hi. Hi. Thank you. And that's all we have before this board. Did you have anything else, Tom? I do not. Thank you. Congratulations on your.