 Hello and welcome. You know, at a time when non-metroes, tier two and three cities are contributing to India's economic resurgence was a pandemic. We thought of conducting a discussion on the changing consumer behavior and media landscape of the Hindi heart, which is step further in understanding the consumers from Bharat, India's growth epicenter. And joining me on this panel are Jaylala, CEO Zenith. Hi, Jay. Hey, hi. Hi, Neeta, how are you? Great, great. We also have Rajiv Jain, Vice President, Marketing, DS Group. Hi, Rajiv. Hi, Neeta. Hi, how are you? Great. And also joining us is Mithesh Desai, Head Sales, Excellence and Agency Partnership at HT Media. Hi, Neeta and thank you very much for bringing this out today. Thank you. A big welcome to all of you and hope you're all excited about this discussion. Absolutely. So my first question is to you, Jay. You know, there was a time when advertising on TV and other mass media was largely kept in, made keeping in mind the urban audiences. More spending power, more attuned to newer trends, better accessibility to new and improved products kind of made them an ideal audience for big ticket marketers. But have things changed majorly since the pandemic? So Neeta, what I would say is that I wouldn't just attribute it to the pandemic, but it's been a trend which has been going on for the last probably five, seven years where the focus is definitely shifting to the Hindi And so again, like, India is basically what we call it as we've divided India into two parts. One is the India, which is the urban India, and second is what we call it as Bharat, you know, the essence of India. So a lot of marketing spends is being focused now towards Bharat and in between, which is between India and Bharat, where we've not still coined a name for that, but we call it Rurban. So that's an area which has been of immense focus. And it's growing because that's where the real next phase of India's growth is going to come. And it's not that urban is all like sort of maxed out. Urban continues to be a group provider. There is there is huge potential in the urban markets, but now with the accessibility with with, you know, earlier it used to be completely media dark and we used to just talk about things like wall paintings, etc. But things have changed, things have changed with the advent of free TV, so free dish and therefore you have TV channels which reach out to them you have you obviously had print which was reaching out and now with the advent of digital. So we've seen the maximum growth which has which has happened in the digital penetration is within this area. So, so it becomes a quite a lucrative market now to reach out to the consumers there. Okay, and rural India partly question the consumer goods sector I think during the first phase that's a bit plus there. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. So obviously for the FMCG it was, it was a big, big push and and it continues so while we've seen from the urban side we've seen a huge growth in commerce. But our belief is that why the commerce will continue to grow and it's a pie out of a smaller pie but the real large pie is still continues to be the Kirana stores. And that's where, you know, these these the rural markets, etc. make a lot of sense. Okay, let me come to Rajiv. Now in a broader sense of the term and not specific to DS Group, do you think India's consumption stories moving from the metros and tier one towns to tier two, three towns now. And what would you say are the major drivers for this. See, that's very true that India's story moving towards that tier two tier three may rule areas. I will divide it in three classification basically that the towns with the 10 lakh plus population. The town is one to 10 lakh in the town below one leg. The penetration in the 10 lakh plus population of any product is already quite high. It doesn't mean that there won't be further growth there, definitely there also the new segment, the new strategy we are working it out. But definitely the penetration of any product the more we go down in the population is data is relatively lesser. So definitely it gives more avenues for any marketer to push down the product in those areas for the higher growth. The reason that growth drivers for this may be various rather number that disposable income of rural and tier three towns population also increasing. Number two that digital is also playing very important role that more and more rural audience they are adopting that digital now that the before OTT now is also like heavily penetrated. And before OTT I will say the satellite channel as such was penetrating a lot in the rural area or may be a three town. All those things raise the aspirational level of the consumers when they have the aspiration when they are the income level also and when the companies are reaching to them in fact. Like I rightly said it's not the phenomenon during the pandemic. It started before that but pandemic further accelerated because during the pandemic the effect of pandemic was a bit lesser in the rural areas in fact. So many traders focused there also which gave further push to the products in those areas. The problem has been that making the products available in the rural area that cost is not so is cheap of distribution in those area. The companies have come out that who are sort of aggregators that they have been correlating the products of the different companies and distributing the rural area. And with the technology with the digital transparency and all that the companies also have been able to see where my product is going and all that. So all those things are fueling the growth in the rural areas and pushing the companies to make them move more towards the areas which are less than population one lakh or rural areas. Okay. Let me come to the platform side. HT Media, Mitesh has properties in print, digital, activations, etc. Hindustan is of course a leading Hindi newspaper. But I'm sure you've been observing the consumer very closely. Tell us how has the media consumption habit of the consumer in the Hindi heartland changed? Yeah, I mean, thanks Neeta for asking this question. Typically what used to happen is previously what India does today as Jay put out India versus Bharat Bharat used to do it tomorrow. But not anymore. What we are seeing is the trends are moving on faster and sometimes in parallel. So it's no longer that we are looking at watching what the metro towns or the India is doing and then replicating it somewhere else. But the trends are moving faster. In terms of media consumption, we are seeing that the Hindi heartland is evolving significantly. So on the surface, the trends are largely in line with any major metro. So we are seeing increased adoption of digital platforms which improve digital news. Entertainment platforms as both the panelists have brought out such as social media. Now all this is essentially aided by low bandwidth costs and cheaper and more powerful mobile devices like today. A smartphone cost around 5000 roughly give or take which is the cheapest smartphone. And we know that the bandwidth costs are increasingly coming down and have come down rather and so on so forth. And what has changed is the COVID situation has only accelerated the adoption of digital platforms as it changes not only the way people consume media, but also they bring digital platforms into various walks of life such as education, shopping, content and entertainment consumption. However, what we saw was the fundamental needs space for news and information of these markets essentially remain the same and make no mistake that this belt churns out the most number of IS aspirants, engineers in the country besides being home to 50% of the population type. So what we saw was markets like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand, which were relatively media duck and therefore print media always played a significant role in the way Hindi heartland has consumed the news and information. The belt was always hungry for high quality news because of their aspiration to be in touch with politics, global news and in general knowledge as we saw. They are like very progressive in their thinking, they really want to crack the IS exams. They really want to crack those engineering exams and so on so forth. So taking cues from that at HD media we've kept pace with evolving consumer behaviors and evolved both print and digital platforms with features which are very intuitive and actually we've been inspired by the way the digital media is consumed, whether the social media or anything else. So for example, we bought in new features like Pramukh Bach which taps into the snacking behavior of news consumption. So we curate the top five news of the day and summarize this on the front page for on-the-go consumption. We've also introduced QR codes so the newspaper doesn't have to be only the morning affair as new and more information gets filed in whether it's elections, Ukraine war, etc. People are hungry for updates, what's happening more. So these kids the news is fresh and so our newspaper doesn't have to be only a morning affair. There are 30 second news sections on every page. So we said let's summarize the page into a 30 second section which can be read and anybody who wants to double click can go on further. There are news with links to video content. So video I think there is of course the troika of video voice and vernacular. So we've seen how do we adopt that into our product as well. So there's a strong push on video content as well and the way we consume news on WhatsApp or any other messaging platforms. So we've also curated shareable info cards to tap into the rising needs. So both our product print and distal products are keenly following the consumer behavior and trends and adopting this to suit the new consumer behavior. Okay and Rajiv as a marketer do you think these kind of innovations is something that's really going to benefit you in the long run in reaching out to the HSM market? Of course that's seen nowadays that media is too cluttered that innovations are very very important. Number two like all the traditional media they have to bring in the technology aspect in fact. Nowadays consumer want more personalization, more experiential and more engagement in fact. And that is the only way that the traditional media can bring some freshness in the media landscape. And the brands will also like to engage with those kind of innovations and activation and all that. And like what happened that nowadays that people don't want to wait for next day morning in fact to pick up the newspaper to wait for the news. Because they've got everything like live and kind of news on their mobiles and all that. And the detailed news they get on the news platforms and all that. But so until the morning when the newspaper is down everybody is fully aware of each and everything. So I think this kind of initiative from in just a time of the QR code it's quite appreciated in fact. And this will bring the more live news kind of thing. So these are marketers are always looking for some innovative solutions in fact. Because otherwise that the brand will be lost somewhere in the two cluttered media. And only they know engagement or innovation. And you're increasingly looking at properties which can blend more than one medium together to kind of get the message across is it? Yeah, integration is always important in fact. The consumer doesn't consume the brand communication in one medium in fact. And if it consumes one medium the amplification may not be too high. If it consumes on the different media the amplification is always very high. Because purpose of that media communication is what the brand communication is about. That purpose is that the consumer should be fully engrossed in your message. And ultimately it should lead to some the trial. It should lead to some engagement. It should lead to some further final action in fact. So when the multiple touch points when that there is integration of various media the amplification or message will always be higher. Interesting. And I'd also like to spend a little more time on the classification of the profile of the this consumer in the HSM market today. Like you know, Mitesh said that they had still the IS as IPS aspirants. But I want to get an understanding from Jay. You are an expert who guides advertisers on their spends. Please throw some light on the shifts and aspirations and behavior of consumers in this in the heart. And how in turn it affects their media consumption. So I think the first factor is when you look at this consumer he has a little more time in his hands. So I'm just trying to differentiate between the consumer in the urban versus the consumer from the smaller towns. So one is time is of essence. I think that's a big differentiating factor. They have time on their hands as compared to the urban. There's less time spent on community. So what happens essentially is that what we call classically what we call as appointment viewing. And I'm not just restricting this to TV but I'm just saying anything with an appointment where you have a fixed time to do certain things. Is more a classical feature here in the rural areas rather than in the urban. So when it comes to newspaper, there is a certain time to read the newspaper. There is larger hours of TV viewing which is happening. Consumption of digital is high. So even before this entire boom of the internet, what we were seeing is that in the smaller towns, obviously people didn't have those classy smart phones. But there were these certain chips which were available which would come preloaded with movies. You could purchase it for 10 rupees to 20 rupees and all that and you could get 10 movies at a go. And these were all edited movies. They would edit the songs, et cetera and all that and that would be there. And that was being consumed largely. Now what has happened is with the rise of short content videos and all that, that consumption is going high. One is obviously it differs from state to state from region to region. But the big point is that media plays a very big role because there is time for consumption. It's not like what is happening, what we see in the urban is that there is this extreme rise of cord cutters. And basically they're not watching TV, they're not reading newspapers, they're not listening to radio and they're getting to everything which is subscription based. And from an advertising perspective, it becomes very, very difficult to reach this consumer. And this consumer is also a very high profile consumer. So this is where you want to target most of your products. It's becoming very, very difficult. On the other hand, we don't have that. So when you look at on the rural side, it's not subscription based, it's more advertising based. So it's more advertiser friendly. They are more willing to look at new products, consumer ads and all that. So there is a polarization and that plays a very important role. What we try and do is depending again from brands to brands, there are two clear dictates which we try and raise it to our clients. One, the same communication will not work. So what you're trying to communicate to the urban does not work there. You have to customize. We are used to having a single TVC or a single form of communication which just goes all across. So that is something which we are trying to use, use local celebrities, use, use local stars which are more popular amongst the rural areas then. So that's one. The second is that, again, it depends on brand to brand, but there are certain brands where up till now what happens in the classical media planning is that you make a plan for national. You make a plan for all India and then you start having little inputs for regional and rural markets. Our advice is that given the way India is, given the focus which it has, India is a very regional market. India is absolutely regional. And we're trying to like in certain cases do what I call it as bottom up planning. You first feed your regional market, you first feed your rural markets and then see if there is a need to go from a national select channel, because it's so fragmented. And we are seeing markets like UP now, markets like Maharashtra and where there is a lot of inputs which is happening. It's completely differentiated. What works in Bombay does not work in rest of Maharashtra. So these are some of the factors which come in. All this is keeping consumer at the center. So you look at what the consumer wants and then trying to have it. So it is quite challenging. It's not easy. It is quite challenging. But that's some of the things which we are trying to do. You mentioned that the ads cannot be the same as what is best for urban audience. Mithesh, I'd like to ask you, but you see a lot of ads coming in your paper, the digital website, the app. The way the marketers reaching out to the audiences in HSM markets, is it very different from how it is in the urban Indian, how they're reaching out to the urban Indian consumer today? And even profile wise, these are people who have very global aspirations. I mean, at least in the thought process. And they want to lead a, you know, an urban lifestyle. So are we still categorizing them as people who are looking at affordable solutions who may need value for money or they've graduated people who are splurging heavy? Yeah, I think India as such is a value conscious market, right? And therefore, when we talk about differentiation, it all depends upon identifying what really matters to the consumers. So for example, to me, a Netflix that now they've reduced the cost, I forget, but let's say a 600 rupees and multi devices may make sense. But, you know, for somebody who is value conscious can look at only a single usage, you know, mobile device and pay about 150 rupees, for example, for the consumption of content, right? So it's the same proposition, or I would say it's the same content, which is dissected very differently to appeal to a value conscious consumer versus, you know, versus, for example, and I mean, in general, India is a value conscious. So it all depends upon what is the need state that market here is addressing and what is the, therefore the communication essentially moves in that direction. Plus there are so many different, I would say, so many different variations or, you know, product variations. So for example, a two wheeler is not just the two wheeler across the TVS Apache probably maybe, maybe very well accepted in the urban markets but then there are different versions where people are seeking more value of mileage, more value of, you know, cost consciousness, etc. So, you know, the communication depends upon the product which is offering and more often the case, there is a differentiation in the product itself, which lends to a differentiation in communication. So what element of a product needs to be highlighted is very different in the Hindi market because the value that consumers seek is very different. Okay, let me ask Rajiv now, you know, DS do present to confectionery, beverages, food, pan masala, what else, a lot of things. How different is the way you advertise to rural urban consumers a few years ago as opposed to how you're doing it now? And what are the nuances that have changed, if at all? See, not in DS context, I will say in general impact. See that it's very important for any communication that consumer should be able to relate with the company brand impact. Right, because ultimately it's a matter of that consumer that what is the objective of any communication that we have to create a love for the brand, we have to get a lot of creative sort of trust factor impact. That trust factor comes like when you speak in his language, as like Muthesh said, it's a matter of the need state impact that we are addressing to consumer impact. If you have to build a trust factor, but the ICD general human habit, like we are comfortable with the person who speaks our language, who speaks as per our culture and our lifestyle and all that. The second product category is maybe very aspirational kind of thing. Then definitely that I have to show in a more organized manner in the rural area also. So that national level of rural audiences in NIMC. But if the product category not so aspirational kind of thing, it's more of a more functional product kind of thing and all that. So there is a matter of that I have to build a trust in the rural audience that then I have to play with the culture of that consumer. And I have to speak in his language. So when he has a mobile phone in an urban setting, it may be very aspirational kind of thing. I have to flash it out and I have to put it on the table. They have a kind of handset I am carrying and all that in rural where it's very, very functional and really more of the Hindi audience impact. Then even the keyboard will be in Hindi impact, like various smartphones, they have the Hindi keyboards. Similarly, like if you remember the campus of America impact. So when they went to rural area with the five rupees bottle impact many years back, maybe I've been to the 20s back. So I'm going to show a typical rural person impact, even the stripping or rural setting in the setting where rural that can complete articulation to a relatively rural because they have to sell the product at five rupees and they have to show that you can relate with the brand like it created sort of a trust factor and comfort factor in the rural audience towards the brand impact. At times that marketer, they have to trust my their communication as per the taste and the lifestyle and the behavior of the rural audience. At times it may not be required, but I feel if the product is aspirational, perhaps that urban aspiration level will raise the aspiration in the rural audience also. If the product is not too lifestyle and aspiration oriented, trust it's a functional product, then definitely you have to see his need state which you are addressing his culture course, his imprints, which you are addressing. And accordingly you have to tailor made your communication. One more thing that to rural audience, they are slightly like income level is still lower in fact. So they believe more in the affordability in fact, and they are a bit more conservative in this very meditation. So many companies, they launched a smaller SKU pet for the rural audience. For instance, sometimes in the 80s, like even get a launch in shampoo, when I joined the women used to use a Shikha tie for washing their hair. There was no concept of shampoo in the rural audience. So that time they have to launch sessions, so the trials are generated. When the trials are generated, then they will immediately jump to the budget SKU also. You will also know that our distributed sessions of automobiles, in fact, just nice consumer, rural consumer thing, for Hindi-backed consumers to try the product in fact. So marketer, they have to customize their, not only communication, they are offering their price point, their features of the product as a rural audience. Interesting. Shikhi is a beautiful example I think. Jair also like to ask you, but have we overall reached that turban messaging for the Hindi bet? Are we still going with that or we moved away from that? No, I think the urban messaging, like what I was trying to explain earlier. The turban messaging, like the typically having the, you know, when you have a rural ad, you show a rural setup, you try to appeal to them in a certain form of view. Or when we address the rural audience now, are we looking at them as more global citizens? More people who can kind of fit in with just the others. So I think this is something what Rajiv just spoke earlier. So there are two ways. So one is trying to make it aspirational and then you try to bring them to that level. Otherwise, it's still, so I wouldn't call it a setting or something like that, but I would more talk about using the same lingo. The lingo is quite different when you go down to the rural areas and it differs from area to area. So that is a challenge. The celebrities are different. So when you're trying to build that local connect, the celebrities are pretty different. So in the communication, these things start playing a very important role. So how well can you connect with them? See, finally, again, the belief is that every brand tries to communicate with the consumer to make them feel that I am for you. And that's where I think this makes a huge difference. If you're going to communicate in a standard format, it might not cut through because most of the creators, most of the stuff which we've created and now is more open. We've been brought up in a certain way and we continue to sort of follow that. But this requires a shift and there are a lot of local celebrities which probably we've not even heard them in the urban market. We do not even think that they are big in the urban market, but they are really big when it comes to rural areas. So that's where the localized connect is extremely important. I wouldn't say that the communication needs to always have a rural setting, but it's more about having a more connect with the consumer, which is the key to start talking to them. But are there advertisers today who traditionally focused on urban audiences for decades, but over the past few years have kind of seen them change their strategy, dedicate a big chunk of their spend on rural tier 2, 3 towns? No, absolutely. So again, I'll give an example of Maggie, which is one of our clients. So while they have creators which cater to basically North India and that's something which they use pretty proactively, but they have made specific communication for the rural areas. So there are a lot of challenges which occurs. Like probably in rural area, there is what you call a lot of fakes. So for them, every yellow pack is a Maggie pack. How do you change that mindset? How do you get them to realize that this is what it is? While in urban, you need not do that. That's some of the things which you've taken for granted. The second thing is that getting local connect, which I was talking about earlier. So Maggie uses local celebrities in these areas, local festivities. So that is something which we try and use to bring a connect to this consumer versus trying to just use the mass advertising creative which we use. So while that definitely you can't really sort of segment and dissect it when it comes to TV, so a consumer might see both, but there is a creative which goes specifically for that specific location audience. So that's what a lot of brands are doing that to sort of cater to that. So while you have a national creative which goes across, but there are specific creatives directed to that. Mitesh, you're doing a fabulous job with your revamp. I mean the innovations that you're bringing about is really going to help bridge the gap. You also, if I'm not wrong, help create ads with advertisers for HSM audiences because you know them best. What are these, can you elaborate on how you're doing it and how you catch the pulse of the audience better than the list? So great question. In fact, what we have is actually curating what we call as a mini agency or a communication arm within our own businesses. So we have something called as a branch studio. The branch studio essentially understands again everything right from what the communication is about, who are the audiences. We do our own primary research, dipstick in the rituals and beliefs of the audiences. So Jay brought up very interesting concept of Maggie and you need to talk about the fake differentiation of a fake versus original in certain areas of the country. Whereas those communication may not be relevant elsewhere. So understanding those rituals and beliefs and then creating concepts and creating messaging right from ground up. So we've done some great work in actually looking at democratizing the financial services. We've done some great work with the devil group with our web series called the Friday finance which is essentially, you know, identifying rituals beliefs and blending the core communication. Within that we've also morphed ourselves from not just a print company, but to be able to deliver brand solutions across across the funnel right, which is. And brands today are looking to partner with platforms which gives them a full funnel source right from creating awareness to building concentration and driving sales and not just one and one media like just a print right can't can't can't contribute to all and therefore it has to be a mix. So for example when we are talking about reach and impact critical elements to drive awareness. You know, and not just overall reach but also reach within relevant brand audience cohorts is important. So brands are looking to platforms to get them solves for reaching more accurately to some of the cohorts that they are talking about brands are also seeking more accountability by measuring the awareness lips. You know through the reach and impact campaigns. So that is something which is, which is an additional layer on top of our ability to connect and and not just reach right it's essentially the whole package that we will be stitched together so also again when we talk about brand forces digital at HD we are actually investing significantly in building the customer data platform so we call a CDP and offer our clients reliable first party audience solutions to measure brand impact we have partnered with the likes of Kantar and Nielsen to bring cutting edge brand of solutions to our clients right. And again we believe connecting with content is critical element of engaging and building consideration for our brand see we were always local right we we know what works in a local geography, given our connect with them through our papers. And we know that brands are looking for local expertise of these media houses to create relevant contextual opportunities and brand integration so, for example, the Hindi heartland is no stranger to large format brand platforms like Mela's on growing outreach programs such as no karnataks retail fairs and many more, and brands are looking to partner with platforms which enable on ground presence with a one to one dialogue with the consumers. We have something called is our no key club, which is a unique platform, which we've created that enables brands to reach out to the progressive women readers and build a one to one connect to drive awareness trials as well as use this platform to interact with them and actually get brand feedback so a lot of stuff that we do and the communication we help build our solutions are very local. And, you know, because we know the nuances are, you know, while we have several editions of our papers we have several hundred sub editions, which means that you know, it's not just a Lucknow edition, it's an input carry. And beyond that what a pivot edition is essentially, you know, to understand nuances that because every hundred kilometers you go, the dialect changes the, again ritual beliefs gradually change. And we understand that and that's where we bring those expertise with of course the element of reach trust everything that goes on into the brand to enable our clients reach those their media and brand objectives very well. So you basically customizing as for the of that particular. Absolutely, not just customer localizing as well so while the propositions are customized the way in which we communicate is fairly, you know, localized to what that region or geography understands in the best manner. The question is to you and Jay, kind of building up from what just spoke about, you know, like, like Nestle spending a lot of money on rural advertising. Similarly, are we also seeing brands, which are not traditionally from that space, maybe like the new companies, gaming, multi platforms, digital payment tabs, because of the proliferation of Internet also tapping the urban or the rural audiences. I mean, we just released this report with ESP properties which said that there has been a 200% increase in gaming in small towns and their consumers of gaming they can also be tapped to us consumers, you know, consumers to advertise to right. So, I want to understand which of these new age brands that are coming and tapping these such as a promise. Jay, you can go first and then I can come. See it's it's it's basically from a new age perspective, media is one which I think has has really penetrated well in these areas. And then when you look at one is obviously the payment gateways payment apps. This is this is something which is gaining momentum. The other one is education access to certain certain amount of education knowledge, which was which was not available earlier because it was a big challenge. So, these, these are these are some of the things financial apps fintech apps. These are these are places where where there has been an increased sort of penetration. And it's it's it's the amount of time let's say urban took to grow this. The markets are growing much much faster. So the adaption of let's say, digital OTT in India in the urban markets versus the rule, the rule is gaining much faster, because the access and everything is is is much more ready for them. And even for the market years they've learned, you know that how should we sort of approach these these rural markets. So, it's there is there is a growth which is happening digitization has like like we've discussed this earlier. What pandemic has done is that it's it's brought forward in years, you know what we used to think we could do it in the next five years seven years 10 years has happened now. It has forced us to do that and and that's that's that's been one of the key game changers for us. And that's that's what has happened so when you when you look at the traditional yes FMCG is making a big in road. In fact, like the example which I was giving of Maggie all popular brands are fixed. You know, and that's that's something so when you go there you suddenly realize there are chocolates being sold that are colas being sold and and all other biscuits everything but all the most of them are fixed. They're trying to capitalize somebody has already reached there. You know so so while while we are trying to like you know sort of go and educate the customer saying that this is right but he's used to certain things. So similarly, you know, even in the other spaces that's that's the that's the phenomena and a lot of apps have been created for these like share chat is a classic example, you know, which is which is which is catering to this market so what what Facebook and Google have done to over India like share chat is trying to do that within within the smaller market so it's it's it's a great opportunity for brands across and and as we all have agreed and said multiple times digital has has just accelerated that completely accelerated. I would I would add the you know fashion and food to it significant adoption of both these categories we've seen proliferation of influencers and the whole influencer driven economy, both across fashion and food. Right, of course, I talked about media finance gaming and education but I would, I would also add fashion and food to it. And, you know, again, I did comment earlier that you know the aspirations of this, this, they were aspiring to be the IS leaders of tomorrow but trends are changing people are looking at becoming influencers as a career option and that's right I mean that's absolutely people are looking to gaming as a career option as well and again that's becoming fairly legit, becoming more and more accepted within within not just their peers but also within their family as well because, you know, make no mistake they are very well influenced by the social circle that they live in. They still not. I would say nuclear in the way we see urban or metro audiences they're still impacted more by family but you know the whole influencer revolution and the whole creator economy that is creating a shift in in most of these and also accelerating them is phenomenal it's essentially as they said we've just accelerated 10 years into the future this one and a half years of COVID or two years have just moved us significantly forward. Yes, absolutely. You know let me let me ask Rajiv now you know more than a year ago because you talk about COVID I mean there was a time when big brands Amul, Pali, they pulled back advertising from news channels going to toxic content. And then there are digital websites, social media which have been accused of spreading fake news, motivated news. And yet today's high consuming consumer customer is a voracious reader and he wants to be very well informed. So what are the platforms that you use to reach out to them especially in the Hindi speaking states. I'm talking about news specifically. So see basically TV if I see the total population is crossing around 900 million and digital I will say 600 million in fact. So number one the digital nowadays is no more add on media is more of a rich platform for us. Number one both on digital as well as on TV that news definitely has played very important role in fact, but television that news has become very very popular, but on digital also that most of the people they have the news apps and all that print has slightly like has become down in the last two years like digital industry already out of print as I said, reason being that people don't wait for the morning next morning to pick up the newspaper they get the news that there. So when you say then definitely they are reading a lot on digital in fact, apart from the physical copy and all that. Number two time span that earlier that when we used to pick up the newspaper we used to spend complete one hour in the reading the newspapers and all that. Now things already we have seen the news that then they definitely that the time spent on digital is becoming slightly more in fact. So when we have to target the news genre in fact. So number one that nowadays it's no more TV versus digital something like that more of the complete AV planning that we will pick up the news all TV also will pick up the news on digital also number two that it will depend on the objective also of my communication. If the objective is more of the impact then TV and print also plays very important role. I will learn some new consumer offer I will learn some new packaging I will learn some new product then print is a fantastic medium for me in fact in one go that the entire city will know that I will learn something new but the distance and other advantages. If I have to go in a certain certain particular geography territories, even in terms of pin code in terms of small towns also and all that. So digital can take me to that particular town only which perhaps that print may not give me that flexibility number two on that in terms of profiling of my consumer that digital give me lots of options that how I can do profiling my consumers. If my consumer is on heavily on news right in news also that what kind of news he's watching and what is the lifestyle and all that that thing that profiling I may not get on TV and print that I will get on digital impact. So all the factors are leading me that depending upon the objective that where I have to go, whether for news or for only only news also whether I have to go on TV or print or on digital impact the three main media in front of me definitely that shift is happening more to a distance nowadays from the TV and the I think that that's why HD has launched revamp their app isn't it Mithish. No absolutely but you know I just want to break this point you talked about fake news and you're absolutely right with the rising uncertainty we have seen a significant rise in creation and distribution of fake news. You know with technology getting more sophisticated is that it is actually a cat and mouse game with fake news creators finding innovative ways to to stay ahead like technologies like deep fake are highly prevalent and it makes it difficult for consumers to differentiate between real and fake information so it is therefore important for consumers and brands to have the assurance that they can trust a platform distributing the news and information along you know with the news itself. You know, and, and again, remember that for print the medium is the message so as brand leverage, the trustee, the trustworthy environment of some of the brands like in the sun to have a rub off effect on the messaging itself. Large brands actually turn to print as you also said to announce new launches and even call out to the print medium to share the stories during times of crisis management right we've seen several brands lean towards print for crisis management so essentially what we what we have actually offered and that's again the new launch talks about is the whole word of Barossa right which assures our partners that their message will be carried in a trustworthy and safe environment because we really hold ourselves to extremely high editorial standards, not just for now but we've been doing it for almost 100 years through high quality standards of journalism, and we've realized that trust is a crying need of the consumers and brands alike so with our proposition Barossa Barossa we are once again reaching out with the promise of, of trustworthy news to our, to our consumers. And because we're discussing advantages disadvantages I think ROA is a very important factor for advertisers, Jed like to ask touch upon this subject data measurement in HSM markets and especially via print and digital is how is that working out. One of the biggest challenges which we have when it comes to this market is is data data and measurement. So there is there there is been like quite some movement when we talk about the urban India, but when we look at this it becomes very challenging. And you need to you need to first. So what we've done actually our publicist group is that we've collated data from various sources. So you have the syndicated studies like IRS, and and some data coming out of Bach, but we've looked at census data we've looked at data coming from Facebook Google then we've also had our own customized data. So what what happens is that it's very challenging. And this is something which I, which I tell my clients very often that you know planning for India is like you know making a media plan for Europe. You have so many dialects you have so many states etc and it becomes very difficult, you cannot have a homogeneous kind of a plan. And therefore, what you what you need is is a lot of data. Currently, I think the industry is highly highly focused towards the urban and and most of the research work most of the syndicated studies is more towards the urban India. But I think we probably we are slightly late on this one but that's where there has to be concentrated effort to have more data coming out for for these markets, because it's it's actually a media plan as nightmare. You know, when he has to make the entire plan and and ensure that it's it's it's catered to each of these specific markets. So yeah, that's that's that's something which which turns out to be a classic big challenge. When it comes to ROI obviously, because of lack of data measurement becomes a challenge. And it's then forced to looking at the end result. And a lot of times advertising cannot like lead to sales, you know, there are other brand measures which which we try and sort of cater to. These are some of the challenges which are there when it when it happens, but as as we've all started and we all know that the market, you know, so, so, besides these restrictions, clients are willing to like you know invest in these markets with with a much more robust mechanism, it will further accelerate. In that case, let's ask the client on the time. Rajeev does it really interfere with the allocation of budget for the HSM market, the ROI factor and the data collection. You're very right. In fact, the data is really big problem. And it's very difficult to measure the ROI impact, because they're very rightly said that apart from sales that measurement of parameter is also the brand building that brand impacts and all that. Right. It's there are certain technology available, but I will not say that they are the fool proven that it is analysis and all that which can give me slightly more picture a better picture that whatever I'm investing, whether this result or not whether it's giving me ROI or not, but they are so many hurdles, so many bottlenecks and all that. So that's why it's very difficult to measure that whatever I'm investing that how much ROI I'm getting. If in case if my basic objective is a sales, at least E2C platform in the performance for woman marketing it's still I can do some little bit level of measurement that how many pressures I'm serving how many clicks I'm getting how many conversion rate I'm getting but post and all that. So that is still like I can get but otherwise in the overall if I see the TV print digital outdoor and all that put together my all the investment that how much is leading to my sale how much is leading to my brand visibility my impact and all that is very different because there are so many factors playing a role at a time like suppose I'm running my campaign is possible my computer also run some campaign is possible my computer give some steam it's possible there's a macro environment factor that some pandemic has come which has completely even in my head but I'm lying top line and all everything and all that. So there's so many factor that they may change the behavior also there may be like during pandemic lots of new products came out which nobody anticipated earlier in fact so many products they have to withdraw from the market which nobody anticipated so many factors play important role like every point of time that's why it's very difficult to measure that whatever investment I'm doing whether it's doing the ROI or not but to some level we have been able to see the ROI in only in the digital space in D2C platform that we are doing the performance marketing with the clear objective of sales only. Interesting, very interesting. Now, Mitesh let me ask you know HD media as a brand is present in urban and markets, you're available in Hindi and English both, but till date I think Hindi publications are the largest volume contributors in print. That's that's right, right. Yes. Right, are these readers that we're talking about going to prefer downloading an English news app considering the aspirations are similar to those in urban areas. Or essentially they would prefer to read using the language of their, you know they are in Hindi, the language that they speak at home. Why why do you think whichever you see the beauty is that you know we are not really restricted by the language because given that it's a app and a digital economy, it just understands any geographic, geographic boundary the same HD is available in everywhere right in whether it's Lucknow or whether it's Luckinpur or whether it's Bihar and likewise in the sun is also available everywhere. I think what is important is a the consumption in the language of choice and the language of choice is very, very often the language that you have, you know, been accustomed to as you're growing up. So if you have gone through a language school and you know as the schooling goes the way you also think right you normally think sometimes in your mother tongue. And maybe you may be speaking in English but you know, instinctively you may be thinking in your mother tongue. And therefore the language is it will it will move and it will change depending upon how these trends move across right as long as we see the primary language of education remains Hindi for that Hindi heartland. People think and are okay and communicate in Hindi. I think it'll be all fine. What is important is actually translating some of the some of the birds or some of the trends to look local language and that essentially plays a very important role, whether whether as a reader, you know, one is able to relate to what is being said. So, you know, it's simplification of of language so whether whether it is demonetization or GST or any other stuff like that. Somebody has to, you know, I would say simplify what is happening around and what these terms mean to me as long as that is that remain simple and easy for me to understand, and as long as you know I'm comfortable with the language because I've grown up with that it should be fine right and and see I mean these trends will change we will see increasing education in in English that is the phenomena which is happening. So what a period of time it's not going to be immediate but over time over a period of time it will, it will be may or may not happen I don't know I mean I'm not a sincere but as long as the fundamental language of education remains and the way we think and express ourselves remain as the simplification remains language will always be accepted as a media of choice. I think I would just like to add on to what Mitesha saying is that the big thing about these markets is is the literacy levels. So, while while literacy is on the rise, but it continues to be a challenge, and there are there are two factors which are which are very important one is vernacular. Communicating in their language, and second is voice. So there are there are now complete apps, everything which is voice enabled. So you don't have to type you don't have to do anything and that's gaining a huge momentum. So you're not, you're not asking the person to read or write, he can speak, and therefore you're not to communicate and do everything, which is voice enabled. And that's, that's been the biggest rise which we've seen in these markets. You know, because you spoke about literacy and I think it is a big challenge and in a way I don't know just playing the devil's advocate here. When TV was coming up, it was a big threat for radio. Similarly, I mean, a big medium of platform which has become very appealing for the HSM audience is short form media apps. So, you know what, what is that edge that an HD would provide, which a short form video app cannot, you know what is the kind of profile that you can basically help your advertisers reach out to which those apps might not be able to. Yeah, I think again, neither we are not really into a user generated content. And as I would like to put out saying that look, the integrity, the trust of the news that we put out is very important for us and therefore that while we what we're doing, we are essentially learning and adapting from the behavior and the product itself. So when we talk about stories or the way, you know, reels, for example, are being consumed. You are essentially looking at a swipe up swipe up kind of up and up kind of user behavior on the platform right so we were adopted that. So you see, in the app to also have story formats, which are quick reads, etc, which you know, which you can actually swipe up snackable content, etc, or reliance on video, which is, you know, short 15 second doors and short video clips to to summarize the news. So we've adopted those. But as far as UGC is concerned, you know, there is always an arc of being a moderated news, a trustworthy source, which is something that, you know, the brand may not compromise on. So that's, that's very core and important to us. So you kind of tried to balance the best of both worlds by taking the integrity of life. Okay, fair enough. And my last question is to both of you, Jay and Rajiv. The next 100 million consumers will probably be found in these markets. Do you agree and what are the various ways brands must reach out to them to ensure that they get the maximum benefit. Rajiv, you can go first. I agree that right. See, India's population right now is 70% rural roughly and 30% urban. Whereas, in terms of if I talk more in terms of SMC industry, there's 60% urban and 40% rural. So that means the population why it's a rural country with 70% and the industry why it contributes 40%. So there's a gap. And as I said that there are three more factors which is playing important role in the growth in rural area. One is in terms of digitization number two, the exposure to moral and moral authority and other kind of platform as rising disposable incomes and all that. So growth definitely will happen. And so a lot many consumers are going to be at it and more and more companies are reaching the rural area with the newer products and customized to the rural impact. So what as a marketer, the most important challenge but I feel making the product available in the rural area impact. As I earlier said that the cost of distribution is not so cheap in the rural area because in the rural area that in one rural there will be population of 5 to 10,000, 15,000, 20,000. It also depends on the various companies they are dividing their category in the rural area in a different way. Somebody when it is below 50,000 is everything rural. Let's say go as per the census of India definition of rural only. Somebody goes 25,000 below all the rural and all that. Whatever the definition is not so important. The important factor is that cost of distribution in the rural area is not so cheap in fact. So the first and foremost thing is that how to make the product available in the rural area impact and for that various options are being evaluated by the different companies. Some of them have their own network. Somebody are trying out with other companies and all that and that's number one. Number two, that customizing the product as per the rural needs and the bonds, aspirational level, their lifestyle, their behavior, their culture, everything and all that. Number three, then matching the product available at the affordable price as per the income of the rural area. Number four, definitely the communication is very, very important. How to customize your communication as per the understanding level of the rural area through which they can relate with the brand. They can think it's my brand, I can buy this in fact. So they have few of these factors, which will be a very important role for any marketer. Jai, your turn. No, I definitely like sort of my echo my thoughts with Rajiji. It's probably not 100 million, probably 300, 400 million is going to come from there. Urban is going to become more as a fight for market share and almost is going to play a very important role in that. But when it comes to rural, it's about getting new consumers. So that's where the entire potential lies. Again, 70% of India's rural and, you know, we've not even scratched the surface. Next 10 years, 15 years, I think it's going to be a very important phase in how much we can like, you know, sort of go deeper into this and extract out of the market. Again, I think Rajiji's covered it well that you know it's all about like understanding the consumer, keeping the consumer at the center, which is I'm saying the basics of any marketing that if we were to reach out to them, we'll have to look at the consumer and then plan everything around. The consumer is ready. So it's not that you know earlier again we were thinking will he really shampoo his hair will he have biscuits all that is happening in these these markets. But, but it's it's as I said there is a huge level of duplicates, which is which is being consumed, and therein lies the opportunity, you know to get the real brands in to happen to this consumer. That's a very valid point there. If I may summarize the discussion of around 15% of India's population besides in the HSM or the Hindi speaking markets. This Hindi belt is clearly the new epicenter of India's rapidly growing consumption story, whether they will clearly lead the growth and steal a match away from the saturated metro cities. But the question is, if it really happens, are the marketers going to be prepared for it. So leaving you on that thought and thank you so much to the panelists for this wonderful, wonderful discussion. Thank you so much everyone really enjoyed the conversations. Same on you. Same on you. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you so much.