 Hello everyone. Welcome. We're going to go ahead and get started. We're starting to see a critical mass join Welcome to our climate week event. We're really excited. Everyone was able to join us today We are also just really happy to have this conversation about carbon removal Amidst all of the other very important climate topics during climate week So that is very exciting for all of us who are working on that topic on a day-to-day basis We are just going to have a conversation today with all of these folks who are really dedicated to Working on scaling carbon removal innovation We're going to talk a little bit about what we are all seeing in the space as different organizations working on that from slightly different angles I think we have a shared mission here, but our organizations all do offer something slightly different But we all share the hope and vision that we can really bring new carbon removal solutions Into the world and scale them up as quickly as we possibly can We're going to go ahead and just introduce everyone quickly and then get into some of the big topics that we hear around carbon removal Why does this matter? Why is it important within the broader climate conversation? What are we seeing the biggest challenges to be in this space? We're going to do a nice Q&A session at the end So please use the Q&A feature on the webinar As you think of a question pop it in there We'll go through them all at the end and you know if it's for someone specific just mention that and we can make sure it gets Assigned to the right person Some of them I'm sure will be things that many people have comments about but we will tackle this as they come in But yeah, let's just kick things off quickly with some introduction. So my name is Nikki Batchelor I am the director for the X Prize carbon removal I've been with X Prize for about six years working on the last energy cocia carbon X Prize So I've seen the space of carbon tech grow and now we're really excited to be working more directly on carbon removal at X Prize We have this giant competition running right now sponsored by the Musk Foundation We are seeing a ton of new innovation come online and into the space for consideration for that prize So that's great to see we are almost at 500 registered teams in the competition and that is you know really great to see how much activity is going on in the space and You know, we can't do it alone. Those innovators can't do it alone So we're grateful to all of these other folks on the call today We're really part of this growing ecosystem that is dedicated to Accelerating all of the new technology that's coming online and you know Everything from fundraising support to mentorship and industry partnerships are really key to seeing this move on So we are really happy to be collaborating on that with everyone. So with that all handed over to Tino Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and air miners? Hey everybody Let's see. So air miners launch pad is a six week program focused on early stage Start-up founders working on current removal I could just hop out of a session that we're doing We just started batch two and it was back there interviewing with with Rob Niven the CEO of carbon here So getting tips from somebody who has successfully navigated the carbon world But yeah, it runs every six weeks It runs for six weeks. We do it quarterly and we're focused on how do we get to a thousand shots on goal? So working on very early stage companies You've got a technology, but maybe I'm starting building on a business model or or start talking to customers That's going to be the perfect fit for for launch pad. So it's definitely at the earliest stage of Of the accelerator pipeline And I'll hand it off to whoever's next You can all call on your next guests. So I'll just pass this one to frederick, but you can call on whoever you want to go after you Hey, everyone. Nice to be with you Thanks, Nicky and the team at express for the opportunity The carbon to value initiative. It's a multi year multi stakeholder initiative launched in 2020 By three organizations the urban future lab, which is new york's longest running climate taking cubator Greentown labs, north america's largest climate taking cubator with offices in boston and houston and front of our usa Which is a leading applied r&d organization With a global footprint and we're supported by nasaada and the new york state energy research and development agency The goal of silvi is really to accelerate the commercialization of carbon tech So we define carbon tech by with technologies and business models That capture use or sequester of carbon. So in that way, we are a little bit different. We definitely include carbon removal as a carbon tech Technology, but we don't necessarily limit ourselves to carbon removal And we want to focus on helping grow the carbon tech ecosystem. So the way we do it is that every year we select a handful of startups typically this year we had 10 10 cohort member out of 130 applicants and We focus on industry partnerships So we don't take equity. We don't provide funding, but we we're going to Connect you with leader in the carbon tech space Currently we have 12 corporates representing different industry verticals And so the value for your company is really to explore The value proposition of your technology in different industry verticals We also have two government representatives, canada and new york state and five carbon tech experts of which expires There are also carbon plant carbon 180 carbon directs And circular carbon network part of this carbon tech leadership council And so really the the privilege there is to access these resources And to focus on industry partnerships and you should be at least gRL4 to consider applying. Of course, it's always a little bit of a gray line But it's definitely on the later stage side. I would say compared to other programs here And next I would call marian Thanks for it. And also thanks niki for setting this up. I'm very happy to be here So I call it the carbon removal climate accelerator. We are a program dedicated to european CDR startups from ranging from everything pre-seed here l2 so very early up to seems that I've already have customers and potentially are raising, you know, the second big around series a right now We support these teams with non dilutive grants with coaching mentoring technology and impact validation And also stakeholder engagement over the course of one year We'll be running this twice a year. So two intakes a year. The program is run by us We have the sustainability and business lab at eth zirq eth zirqs once the leading research universities in europe And we are so think and do tank that does mostly industry projects Mostly in hard to decarbonize sectors like waste energy cement maritime shipping aviation And we co-lead the program together with the to delft another university from the netherland And the program is co-funded by climate kick, which is the eu's innovation climate innovation program And we also have a couple of other partners on board We just closed our first round of applications received around 100 from all over europe And they're now excited to start with the first 2016 this week actually Brad handing over to you Thank you. Hello, everybody. I'm brad act the executive director of ocean visions ocean visions is not a traditional accelerator We're really even an accelerator at all We are a network of academic and research institutions in the ocean space big names like stanford and scripts and mit and woods hall partnered with a number of accelerators such as ocean exchange and sustainable ocean alliance Larta associates and creative destruction labs As well as others to bring solutions to critical problems facing the oceans And too much seed too much carbon in the atmosphere and in the water is the most critical problem facing the oceans And so for that reason we have decided to put our weight behind ocean-based competitors to The expires carbon removal The ocean pathways for carbon removal are are really not as developed Relatively speaking as many of the terrestrial options And so our contribution in this space will be for a select group of competitive teams That will go through the application process to ocean visions We will put together custom teams of people with the disciplines from the academic and research institutions The disciplines that your team might need to really prove out the technology and be able to meet the critical milestones in the expires competition And so these teams will actually work with you at no cost We're talking about top talent For somewhere between a year to two years as you go through the process of the expires competition Again, it's only for competitors with an ocean-based approach Open to anyone anywhere in the world No IP Ownership anything like that on our side. No no you know No share or stake in the company This is purely done as a way to raise the field overall and I'm happy to talk to any people who are interested As time goes on. Thank you Oh, and next I will go to Kevin Thanks, brad and thanks for the invitation and joining us today. I'm kevin crawsert CEO and co-founder of avatar innovations We're groundbreaking energy transition and carbon technology innovation An investment firm that works inside heavy industry for decarbonization We were pleased recently to launch a partnership with expires surrounding bringing Heavy industrial players to the table with emerging carbon removal technologies for partners for partnership in scale A lot of the emerging carbon dioxide removal technologies to win this expires you're going to need Industrial scale to hit the gigatime and we're pretty pleased We just closed registrations last week and admitted 10 parties from four different continents into this process and we're kicking off on october 1st And that will be really a co-development process We're calling in an accelerator for returns, but it's really an industrial co-development process with some major carbon technology international players And they'll be ready for their early bird submissions By february 1st And we're evaluating our next intake because we were a little overwhelmed with the The amount of Amazing opportunities that came our way. So thanks for the invitation and I look forward to working with with this group and advancing the cause of carbon removal And off to you omid Thanks, kevin Hi everyone. My name is omid too, and I'm representing the creative destruction lab I'm creating creative destruction lab as a non-for-profit group that focuses on commercializing technology-based scientific driven innovations that has the capacity to change human life for the betterment of human life we um operate a mentorship program focused on helping technology-driven ventures that are at the trl of four to seven And generally we aim to provide a sustained access to sustained judgment and what I mean by this is I'd be a pair of ventures with both commercial and technical mentors that Have expertise in various technology areas two years ago. We started our climate stream that that operates out of vancouver Oxford at london and paris And we generally focus on a number of carbon removal carbon sequestration and resource preservation areas I'm happy very happy to be here and happy to connect with anyone who has interest in our program and or collaborating with us To to participate as part of x-rays And I think I was the last person maybe Yeah, I think we made it through. All right. Thanks everyone for the backgrounds. Um, that was just a little level setting So we know who everyone is what we're all working on I think we'd like to dig into some interesting questions here and just you know discuss what's going on in the space I think a lot of people Come and approach all of us with various questions about what we're seeing Why does this matter? Where are we going? So I think we just want to take some time to to have a group conversation about that and um, you know Also bring the audience in for some of that conversation in a bit. So to kick us off tito question for you Why don't you give us your spiel about why does carbon removal matter and then how does that play into How you think about running air miners the vision for that organization, which has really You know grown amazingly over the last year or two and we're seeing so much activity in that space And I know you have a very clear kind of vision for how you articulate it. So I think that'd be a good place to start Yeah, great. Um, let's see so so first off from a from a high level It's it's climate week And it's it's worth acknowledging that there's just so much going on besides the climate Most of us are calling in from from our bedrooms from our homes rather than offices or labs because of the spread of covid even just in the context of the climate world there's There's so many solutions working on getting carbon neutral. So reducing emissions what The reason carbon carbon removal is needed because there's there's still too much carbon dioxide already in the atmosphere And there are incredible people working on solutions to pull carbon from the air the way that we think about it at air mines is We're just so early in this in this industry And so our focus has been on inspiring educating and accelerating solutions to carbon removal We think of it like we need a thousand shots on the goal. So we need more people Making it go at a solution for carbon It's not just a matter of taking something that's out there already and and scaling it up that that actually won't work So we need new ideas new concepts new people working on solutions. So inspiring Getting out there. We have an event series that we host with with luminaries in the field with people who are coming in the field Educate we have an airliners boot up, which is a A five-week kind of online book club course that you can go through with other people to learn about carbon removal and then our air miners launch pad where we're helping Early-stage startup companies get formed get connected to customers But really thinking about because we're at the the creation of this industry How do we get the right people? How do we get the right thinking? How do we get the right culture? To get to gigatons scale carbon removal and to get to a thousand shots on A thousand shots on goal from from a diversity of of backgrounds of different powers Yeah, so let's just build on that as a foundation I have some questions for each of you But I think you're all welcome to speak to that first prompt which is you know, really? Why does carbon removal matter because I think that's a question that we all care about and might have different answers to So to add on brad from your perspective Where do we stand in the space of carbon removal? Versus where we need to go and how do you think about it from the ocean perspective specifically with all the work that you're doing in ocean missions? Thank you for that first just to hold on On the question of why it matters, you know, we're already past the point of danger for the biosphere Right, we all know this. I mean we're we're experiencing an ever-shifting baseline of what we consider to be acceptable damage to people and to nature and now we're at In the throes of an extinction crisis that's caused by in large part not entirely but in very large part by a change in climate We have enormous impacts to the oceans, which we like to say have shielded us from the worst effects of Carbon, but it's like your friend taking a hit for you. It's not that they're All right, the ocean is in grave You know in grave danger as a result of too much heat being trapped in the atmosphere Most of which is going into the ocean and too much carbon going directly into the ocean So we're already past the danger zone and in fact I saw a story the other day that we may be exceeding about four of the critical planetary boundaries already The only way back from that The only way back from that is getting atmospheric and oceanic co2 Levels down and there's only two ways to do that turning off the tap Which is what 97 percent of the world is focused on and cleaning up the mess Which is the rest of the three percent of us and you know those numbers are illustrative. I have no idea what the actual Relative investment is but I I'm positive. It's at least nine to one In terms of trying to stop the pollution versus cleaning up the pollution So where are we? We're very nascent in this journey, right? There was a big story a couple weeks ago about climb works new plant and iceland exciting 4 000 tons a year of co2 Okay Add a zero and then another zero and then another zero and then three more And that's where we need to be This year at four billion tons. Okay, so we're talking six orders of magnitude Away from where we need to be And that's at the low end of the estimates We're probably going to need to be at around 10 billion tons a year Very soon in order to really make it dent to this crisis So we have a massive job to do We are really excited that eline musk and the foundation have Showing a spotlight in this area with this money money talks. It's important gets people going We need as as cito says I couldn't agree more a thousand or maybe a million shots on goal to win this fight Thanks brad Building on that a little bit more friend. I'm curious from your perspective, you know running the c2v initiative in that community It bridges a little bit broader than just carbon removal How do you see that conversation playing out from your perspective of all of the different startups that have been coming in that you've been working with Where people seeing the carbon removal space go and evolve over the last year Yeah, no, it's super interesting So you mentioned, you know, we are not specifically focused on carbon removal But carbon removal is part of carbon tech of the scope we consider being carbon tech And you know, traditionally carbon tech Is better understood as like making useful products like fuels and chemicals and materials from co2 But we see an a fourth class of product really emerging which is Carbon removal as a product or as a service Um, and you know as a market, I think we'll talk a little bit about market later um And so we we have at least three companies in our cohort that are really Focusing on carbon removal Just to give you three examples the first one is patch. So Patch is like a software marketplace And where they're going to be helpful is to scale the demand The market demand for carbon removal. So people who want to buy carbon removal as a service or as a product And scale and connect that demand with the supply. So being kind of a intermediary between the two another example of an engineering kind of engineered solution not not a software solution Carb fix out of Iceland. So they're really looking at low cost sequestration Mineralizing the co2 into basalt and they're all about carbon removal all about sequest safe, you know low cost reliable measurable um way to uh to to capture a co2 and then to to get it into the ground and then the last one That is has a heavy carbon removal place planetary hydrogen, which is actually an ocean play So they they kind of leverage the ocean chemistry to use the ocean as a massive Direct air capture device if you will and that's an interesting Longer term but potentially very promising and scalable carbon removal solution So that's what we see I would say there is another trend that we see that everyone wants to be carbon negative and be carbon removal classified I would I would say be very careful with how we use the terminology We can only use carbon removal, you know, if you're sourcing co2 from the atmosphere And then if you're storing it for 100 or ideally thousands of years Reliably safely and measurably uh and then The other condition is that the energy and the material that you're using to do so Should not be bigger than the CO2 you're taking out of the atmosphere Otherwise, you're not net negative. And so that's not not going to be really useful And so always be critical about when you hear about carbon removal solution, you know, what do they sort of What do they sort of see to what is the permanency of the co2? And how much kind of energy and inputs the carbon intensity of these inputs might be So that's kind of what we see. So, you know, carbon removal for us is a gold standard It's like the best we can do but there are other approaches in carbon tech where they can help to reduce emissions In the in a shorter term and maybe more more more economically in the short term I want to jump back in here Brad I want to ask a follow-up question that I saw in the chat here Which I feel like might just be a good ground setting for folks So someone is asking what are the merits of ocean removal versus atmospheric CO2 removal? Yeah, it's a great question. So first of all, there are Number of dimensions that one is the sheer size of the ocean in that 70% of the planet We are going to have to employ that space in this race for a massive carbon removal So no matter what technique we use we we have to think about how the oceans come into play The oceans in the atmosphere are sort of in a dynamic equilibrium of carbon concentration And so as you pull carbon out of the atmosphere The ocean which has absorbed this excess anthropogenic carbon is going to respire it back into the atmosphere So there really isn't a comprehensive carbon removal solution that isn't going to also involve the oceans Secondly the concentration of CO2 in seawater is significantly higher than it is in air So things like direct air capture applied to the ocean may have a much higher probability of efficiency Than what we see on land simply because of the volume of CO2 in the water Third the oceans already are the major System on the planet that's cycle carbon. There's about 50 times more carbon in the deep ocean Than in the atmosphere And so you can see how just simple excuse me just slight changes to overall oceanic carbon Not dissolved carbon Not dissolved CO2, but but oceanic carbon in the deep sea could make a very big difference But we need both we are not trying to hold out that Oceans are better than the atmosphere as as approaches as again back to the thousand shots on goal We need everything we can get that works that has a strong positive life cycle analysis to it Thanks for that One thing that's exciting. I think about this group of folks that is assembled here is that we have a range of perspectives Some people working on more specific areas like ocean versus atmospheric or carbon tech, you know, we have We have those kinds of thematic areas. We also have different geographic focuses in some cases So I want to shift for a minute and kind of talk about Maybe some of the comparisons between the conversation that we're seeing here in the us versus canada and europe So Marianne over to you. How are you seeing the carbon removal landscape right now in europe? And I know you guys also just closed your submission. Are there any interesting takeaways from this kind of first group? cohort that you're starting to see emerge yeah, sure, so To the first question. I think brad talked about latency. I mean, if this complete space is nascent and unfortunately I think we in europe are a bit lagging behind in a bit more nation Um, I think it's also evident in the panel here. I mean, I'm I'm the only one the rest of us are Located in the us or in canada. Um, and I think we see that especially in the number of deployment and innovation On the ground in europe being besides climb works and carpet which interestingly both of you Brad and and fred you have mentioned There really are not a whole lot of established cdr players in europe yet. And that's surprising given that I mean, we have Great research universities. We have great impact on the brennorses Ecosystems, right? But but I think there's there's two reasons why why that hasn't happened yet. One is I think we lack the um The clarity and certainty around policy that you guys in the u.s. Have already established I think lcsf and 45 q have been, you know, really great catalysts for for cdr in the u.s And we certainly do not have that and I wish for for this importance Of cdr both in policy and in general to be recognized more on an u-level but also on on the national levels and You know organizations like carbon 180 are doing a good. I have been doing a great job in the u.s And I'm very glad that You know, we're slowly starting to see similar organizations pop up in europe to work on that carbon removes the advocacy europe is one of them Very excited to see the work that they'll be doing and I think the second reason why we're lagging a bit behind this procurement I think from the the big procureers that Are out there that have You know shown that they are willing to buy early to buy at the premium price Except for swiss re none of them have come out of europe And I think while you know stride microsoft Shopify all of them have been sourcing globally It is you know a sign Also for local ecosystems is a local buyer for european buyer went ahead and was okay with paying those premiums and You know, quite frankly, we have those corporates and those corporates have aggressive targets. They just need to follow up on them, right? um And with regards to submissions actually those were the points that were also addressed by the teams when we asked them why they wanted to Why they were applying and what they would need help with one was unclarity around e-regulation Regarding verification regarding methodologies regarding incentivization The second one was they would like to get a better understanding of how these procure a source What are the requirements they would need to fulfill in order to become eligible for a thrive? for a client for a microsoft And the third thing which I haven't mentioned is that things also funding dc funding specifically. I think there's Just greater appetite for deep tech in the vc ecosystem In the us or in north america in general compared to europe I think that's changing and i'm excited about it and we are also trying to change it But um, but but I think we still have have a bit to go and to catch up with you guys I just want to pick up on two things that you mentioned in case folks in the audience don't know what 45 q or lcfs are Open question to the group who wants to explain those? I can jump because it was going to be in a little bit of my kind of commentary. So 45 q is the u.s. government standards for sort of carbon removal offset protocol legislation Um, it was an attempt to turn carbon offsets or carbon removal technologies Um into a fungible market Um, there's a variety of jurisdictions around the world looking at our own Canada's recently implemented Something very similar. Um and this I think speaks to you know, the emerging Um carbon protocol needs to happen for this market to truly unlock itself. Um, that'd be an introductory policy question I know enough to be dangerous on this and I know it's an emerging issue What I would say is I think one of the big hopes for cop 26 Is the ratification of article six article six is the provision in the bears Convention that would allow an international tradeable carbon offset market currently right now in Canada and I believe the u.s You've got voluntary offsets and and compliance offsets They're not all created equal. Um, that's somewhere that needs to we need to put a lot of effort into as a as a planet Well, you were next up on the question as well So I'll just hand it over to you to speak for a minute about, you know, what are you seeing the landscape like in Canada? How are you seeing we'll talk about carbon removal, you know, especially in comparison to how folks have described it So far and in the u.s. End of Europe Yeah, for sure. We gave me the hard question for sneaking But uh, yeah, first of all, uh, it's great to be included in this group and and I think building on on tito and brad's kind of commentary is that Net zero is not going to be enough We need to be thinking about what what carbon negative solutions do look like The way I think about this is, you know, if you've got a bathtub and you're filling it up with carbon dioxide and it's overflowing The first thing you're going to do is shut the tap off But the next thing you're going to do is open up the drain And so how can we Work on both of those solutions concurrently because right now we got the we got the tap closed Or we got the tap on and the drain drain closed And so this is I think a really valuable or important Area for us to work on and and I think it's really the Apollo project of our generation This is going to require an all hands on deck solution That we need every party at the table So I think this is such a fantastic initiative and we're delighted to be letting our support in terms of canada and cdr actually we're one of the one of the birthplaces of of carbon removal technologies carbon engineering the largest carbon removal A company in the world right now was born right here in my hometown calgary Much of the leadership team is still here. And so there's a pretty awesome carbon technology ecosystem In calgary and canada kind of out of broad We were happy to host the cocia x-price Which led to the winner of carbon cure And built albert a carbon conversion technology center One of the world's leading carbon technology centers. So I think you know one of the now that being said despite canadas I think early start on this race. It's still a I'd still say we're in the first first inning of it, but we're proud of what we've Accomplished thus far So, you know, I'd say broadly speaking The unique aspect of how canada is approaching this First of all, we've got a really blessed Land or geographical position for a lot of these solutions both The second largest landmass in the world as well as the longest coastline in the world To be really looking at the type of industrial scale for you know, for gigaton type removal You know, secondarily, I think we've got a fantastic sort of research hub That's been driving a lot of these initiatives like carbon engineering and and others And you know, I'd say risk capital is starting to come to the table and I'd say that's from the industrial parties So, you know, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we're proud to have partnered with five of the largest energy companies in the world To be supporting these initiatives and you know, first glance you'll say well, they're part of the problem But the flip side of that coin is they're probably the most motivated investors and technology players on the planet to actually get these initiatives off the ground And seeing them come to the table Is that all hands on deck solution? And you know, which is as I said, we went through a round table yesterday And each of them put up their hands for for two carbon removal technology companies They want to they want to build towards this this XPRI so Industry is coming to the table. So, you know, as I mentioned, we need a fungible carbon offset market to Turn this into a real opportunity And Canada looks forward to to working with the many other jurisdictions as we solve this global challenge Thanks, Kevin Omin over for you. I'm just thinking about CDL and your structure is a little bit different than some of the other programs represented here in the sense that you Are working across many different thematic areas and tracks. You also have a fairly global footprint Can you speak a little bit about why CDL decided to start working on carbon removal as a specific kind of area of focus and how long that has been in your portfolio Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to go last because there are a lot of the points I would have made as already been mentioned by Frederick and TDO and and Kevin. So hopefully I'll just build on that Generally speaking Because CDL is a mentorship program, we look at our ecosystem to help us figure out what is the next area We need to focus on we leverage what we have at each of our ecosystem And look at what where we feel the market is ready for innovations We identified climate Three years ago as an area that we would like to expand and we looked at all of the sites at CDL and decided that there are three of these locations Vancouver, Oxford and Paris that Really poised to take advantage of the expertise in a region. So we started focusing on climate and we had a Very holistic view on of what our climate stream is going to look like Partly for what it's already been mentioned. So we believe ocean is important and We believe water preservation and atmosphere all of these have a role to play and we wanted to expand our Our net as white or cast our net as white as we could We also started looking at what are the some of the players in in our Equa system that would need to drive this change and similar to what Kevin said We believe industry has a very big role to play um So we designed our theme originally to see what are the short term and long term gains that we could have In the market or long term innovations we can drive in the market So we started our climate stream last year and originally we didn't have carbon removal as part of our The themes very quickly after we started we realized that For us to make a big difference and a meaningful difference carbon removal needs to be one of our themes so we've added that and the partnership with x prize and air miners as well as a relationship with Kevin's group at avatar has been really helpful in unearthing some of the promising ventures that we we've been looking for But not as successful As recruiting in the past. So we just closed our application Our finalizing our cohort. We expected this year probably 20 to 25 percent of our Ventures in climate so about about five out of the 20 are going to be focused in this area and we expect that this is going to be expanding and partnership such as these the one we have with air miners and x prize for us is incredibly important in driving the space Great. Thank you. So I was going to ask the group To speak about what you see the biggest challenges are currently that startups are facing and what kind of support they need How you think about tackling that through your programming I'm going to add on a question that I see from the audience about what specific technical skills One should learn in order to build these kinds of solutions I feel like that is probably also very integrated with what you might answer the first part So that's an open question. Who wants to go first? I mean, I'm happy to just Start and then people can build on the I think the biggest challenge right now for carbon removal is really market development like who's gonna What are you selling? What is your product? And who's gonna buy it? Right now we have, you know, three main buyers like Microsoft Stripe and Shopify, but that's very small And the question is who's gonna what's who's the next wave of of carbon removal purchasing? Is it going to be individual? Maybe rich people basically have a Tesla Model S approach develop a very high end luxury product that people want to buy a premium After we are able to sell watches, you know for $10,000. Why couldn't we sell carbon? For for $1,000 I think market development is really key. That's why at the C2V initiative We're trying to to develop economic cases for C2 because we believe it's going to accelerate Skating these technologies. These technologies are very early still and they're still very expensive because they are operate at small scale So if they have a better economic case through utilization With carbon tech then they're going to scale faster to go then towards more carbon removal solution. That's kind of our approach Just just to build on that a little bit I agree that a lack of a robust market is a critical obstacle But there's obstacles before that and some of those came up in the chat which is the the ability to verify and Assure carbon storage permanently and safely Right and that gets to the social and political license to operate question Which is probably in my view the biggest hindrance to this space or the biggest hurdle we have to overcome is that people Don't yet have the information that they need to trust that these solutions aren't going to be worse than Illness and you know, so many things we've done throughout modern technology Technological history have been in the name of good and have led to tremendous downside. So we have this we have this really big hurdle to overcome which is a serious deficit of information about the broad environmental effects of some of these approaches the permanence of the carbon and to bring the public and The interested communities along with us so that we can have a market that will incentivize and continue to drive growth in the area Yeah, I think of better. I couldn't agree more. I think that's also that something that teams come With to our program is that they need support in validating their tech and validating their impact most importantly, right? Because because after all, you know, a ton removes the really needs to be a ton removed And that that is a question that they themselves sometimes lack the skills to be able to to determine, right? So you asked about what skills, you know potential entrepreneurs in this space need Besides, you know, a lot of the other entrepreneurs skills and certainly especially on the engineering side It couldn't help to you know, have a process engineering or chemical engineering degree An understanding of energy balances and an understanding of how for instance an lca fundamentally works and and how you would approach that Certainly couldn't help especially if you're sort of looking towards Starting to enter the market because that is what is required by those few Few buyers that out there already Yeah, I'll I'll build on that and in the sense that I think that the technical Evaluation is is it is going to be a critical piece? But I brought in it also to consider full life cycle evaluation And I think there's there's there's a gap on that if you factoring and scope three emissions For a lot of these companies to actually prove that they're true kind of carbon negative solutions as opposed to just immediately carbon negative if you will Um, the next piece I think that is is going to be really important for a lot of these is actually customer access In the sense that because you don't have a market right now a lot of what is the path to market for? A lot of these types of solutions. You've seen Tremendous advancements that have come out from the rfps from microsoft and from stripe around, you know wildly inflated carbon markets Um, goldman sacks doing the same, you know, what were what? How do you bring the customer to the table in a way that is that is emerging in this space and mirroring those two? I think will create a lot of a lot of opportunity And then in terms of specific skill sets, you know the solutions I'm seeing a carbon removal or everything from accelerated rock mineralization and hence being a geologist to, you know, advance microbiology to Whatever so, um, I'd say high level would be Entrepreneurship of of all of these very disciplined scientific and engineering fields Now I'll just add to in addition to all the technical skills that have been mentioned now I mean, don't forget that there are also huge needs for business strategy marketing finance, you know Pitching to investors all of those things which are not necessarily the strengths of the technical founders sometimes So they often need to find a good pair and we see that all the time From the x-price perspective and we've also been hosting a series of Matchmaking sessions where teams kind of pitch their idea and kind of call out for the other Missing pieces and team members that they don't have so, you know Even if you don't already know that ins and outs of carbon removal or you don't have an engineering degree Like there is still something to give here. So keep that in mind and you know Try and and reach out to some of these other startups that look interesting to you and see if you can help Because chances are they could probably use it So I just i'm going to add on another question similar We started talking a little bit about the market in this last one, but we have a specific question from paul That says regardless of the cdr approach, we will all need a market for carbon credit offsets What activities are going on that will benefit the teams? There's been a little discussion so far about microsoft stripe and chopify Just for the benefit of everyone who's listening the 230 people here Can someone just give the background of exactly what those three companies are doing so far and then maybe you know open floor about other ideas for the market growth in the future that we see I'll jump in microsoft Microsoft has the world's leading carbon commitment. They have committed to becoming entirely carbon negative By 2050 cleaning up the entire footprint of their company That is the industry leading commitment There are literally dozens and dozens and dozens of other companies besides the ones mentioned that have commitments There's just very few that are buying carbon right now like chopify and stripe and they're not really buying carbon In the conventional sense. They are funding long-term research and development To create the the stream of Future carbon that they might be able to buy to meet their commitments because they're paying You know prices way above the conventional market in order to see the space and that's what we need and the announcement yesterday Where the breakthrough energy catalysts got a billion dollars Of philanthropic money to help develop Green energy. It's the exact thing we need in this space. We need D-risking capital We're not ready for investment capital yet unless it's extremely long-term Investment capital and that's not true for every approach but for many what they need is de-risking capital the money to build out their technologies prove the relative safety not absolute safety because nothing safe but the relative safety to the no action alternative which is unsafe and and to encourage people to come in but You know, I think these companies like microsoft and chopify and stripe are Blazing the trail for that Yeah, and I'll just kind of build on that too in the sense that so, you know What a lot of these really leading-edge companies like microsoft are doing is basically they're going to go create a market Um, and it's it's you know, but what they're doing is really in kind of this voluntary off sale world So microsoft goes in issues in rp. They say they'll pay a thousand bucks a ton for somebody that can permanently remove co2 and then Emerging technology company can go win that rfp and then access that risk capital that brad was mentioning is in such short supply The question is how do you start moving that into a compliance base? So in canada you've got You know all these compliance protocols that you can access that tend to be Sloan bureaucratic, but if there was a simple transparent fungible market To unlock that that wouldn't lock a lot of those kind of risk capital because brad's right There is so much green infrastructure money at the infrastructure size level And there's not enough at the kind of the risk level and how how can we unlock that and I think there's Some really interesting solutions that are coming to the table. I'm hopeful of which some will be announced at cop26 Also from the supplier perspective If you look at climb works or carbon engineering, what they're trying to do is really differentiate carbon removal Product offset whatever you want to call it and carbon credits because historically carbon craze It's avoided co2 emissions. So I'm going to build a solar plant and that solar plant Is going to avoid electricity from coal just very very simply put That's avoided emissions carbon removal is completely different from climate impact perspective You're actually taking co2 out of the atmosphere. So you're you're not you're not avoiding future rings You're you're like repairing like brad was saying you're like repairing damage So I think collectively we should try to have a different market and with a different value A one ton of co2 remove has a different value from a climate impact perspective and one ton of co2 avoided and that's Honestly, this is new Like all the co2 schemes in europe ets in canada in california It's all about carbon emission reduction compared to a baseline. It's not about carbon removing absolute Tons of co2. So there is a lot of market education To be done there and potentially trying to build a completely different offset market And just may briefly together european perspective on this a very good point I completely agree with with fadrik and interestingly enough the u.s. You know very recently published or indicated that they would indeed Differentiate between avoidance reduction credits or reductions and removals also potentially in markets Whether that is going to be a compliance market or we'll say a voluntary market that is still up for grabs And hopefully we'll have something on that next year, but at least they have explicitly made this distinction, which I think is crucial also for the market going forward For the voluntary market, I think we're in this weird situation where Typically, you'd say that the supplier, you know Wants to build barriers to entry for other suppliers right now Think costs are prohibitive actually for buyers to come in Right, so there might be actually buyers who would like to you know, procure Permanent carbon removals, but costs are simply too high You know, they might not have the luxury or the balance sheet offer microsoft described Or Shopify to be able to pay 600 700 800 bucks for a climber Director capture credit. So I think that is one of the reasons why we're seeing so the lack of market It's not necessarily only because there's a lack of supply But also because costs are unfortunately so prohibitive Thank you guys. Those are all great points. I couldn't agree more I think, you know, we're really entering a new phase here of What this is going to look like and It's messy and the definition phase that we're in right now trying to transition from an old way of thinking about carbon to actually What it would cost to price carbon removal correctly Um, so we 100 agree with those those points and you know, hope to contribute to that conversation through the prize as well Over the next few years I got a few questions just asking for everyone's contact info again So I know a few of you have shared it, but if everyone can just share their Their website and whatever email address is best to reach you and your program at in the chat That would be great So folks can see it all like fresh and they can get it in the last few minutes of the session In case they want to follow up with anyone directly We have a question here from john about what modalities of cdr are not getting enough attention And need more basic research prior to implementation. I think that's interesting We see a lot of people kind of asking about that and I think everyone maybe has a different take on it But I'm sure there's some similarities. So I'd be curious what everybody's answer is to that one I can jump in quickly on the oceans. We just actually published today and sent out an announcement about it three technology roadmaps Around three big domains of ocean-based carbon dioxide removal and you can find them at ocean visions.org forward slash roadmaps But they are basically The culmination of a year of work with a global crowd To identify the current state of technology in those three big domains The most critical challenges they face to move forward in r&d And a whole suite of first order priorities, which are what are the most critical things that need to be unlocked sequentially And sometimes consecutively to move the field forward like that issue of additionality that we talked about right until we can crack monitoring and verification through ocean pathways We're always going to be struggling and there's a number of other items highlighted in the maps just like that and so that's a Really a direct answer to that question. We've tried to we've tried to specifically lay out what the state of the field is and what needs to happen next and It's very interactive and you can sign up to be a contributor and you can also Leave comments and and suggest changes like a wikipedia page any other takers, what are the overlooked areas of cdr I think one that that I always feel doesn't get the credit it potentially deserves. So that could be a lowing food is Bioenergy carbon capture on waste waste energy plan It is, you know, you already have the facility on site You just need to install the carbon capture unit and because you know, depending on how the fraction of organic waste If it depends from the station it's a ratio new to incineration unit. You have up to 50 55 percent Potential negative emissions of cdr through the organic portion in that way And I think that is one that you know, isn't the most sexy But it should be one that we should consider because it also could be an entry pass For cdr into more, you know, public procurement processes because a lot of these incinerators are actually publicly held So they they could, you know, dip their toes into cdr without having to spend quote unquote too much money Obviously, there's some capex involved, but I'd love to see more recognition of that of that potential I'll do low energy intensity cdr solutions There's some fantastic work that's being done out there But some of them were always predicated on just like endless supplies of free renewable energy Um, and that's not going to be realistic. And I think getting an energy efficient solution is going to be the winner Let me just hop in from experience working with the first batch of airmires watch that companies like what are What are they missing because they're going to be ones that are they're kind of Working with other companies two things Storage is a is a big missing area and verification Yeah, a lot of teams right now are kind of doing this vertical integration of we do capture we do storage we do it all Doesn't seem like it's sustainable to actually build an industry and there is a there's a kind of this big assumption around like Yeah, we'll just kind of vary it somewhere and if somebody really not somebody but there's probably an entire industry there Um, somebody else had mentioned verification earlier, you know at the early stages sure we can get by by You know just kind of having you know to keep understanding that the science and technology But for this to scale to to billion dollar market trillion dollar market and beyond We got to know where the carbon is we got to know that it's taken out And we got to know how long it's going to stay there. That's just that's that's we got to figure that out And so if you're interested working on that, uh, how we encourage you to dive into either that or uh, we'll tour Thanks Tito. I'll just jump on the verification point for a minute. So We have our student submission deadline coming up for the x-price carbon removal on october 1st And there is a special carve out there for mrv technologies and supportive technologies that are not actually The carbon removal solution themselves and we're seeing like a very low volume of submissions there So if anyone on this call is working on research in this space We are giving awards up to a hundred thousand dollars each in november. So immediately out the door To support that research. So just you know spreading that word if you know of anybody else who's working on that space You can contact us. We are carbon removal at x-price.org But just I feel like it's often overlooked, but it's going to be very important as the Market continues to grow and we have more solutions out there. We need to be able to do mrv You know at an in a scalable way across many many different types of pathways and solutions So I will just um Give everyone a chance for final comments. My last prompt would be What would be one thing if you could make happen in the next year That you think would be able to help unlock the growth of the carbon removal space So that's that's your prompt. You can rift with it any final comments for the session and we'll we'll bring this to a close Ratify article six at cop 26 in scotland By one For this group, uh, encourage you to to look for diverse founders and co-founders to work with Diverse teams are going to be the ones that that succeed at building this industry And at least from a specifically from a gender perspective We're looking you know our first two batches of amir's launch that we saw 10 to 20 percent of teams had a woman co-founder, uh, and so we need to Improve that and also define what success looks like as well. So I think we had thoughts on that or uh, yeah Just make that part of part of what you're working on Yeah, I I I built on what Tito said so I agree with that completely in terms of diversity one of the things Because of the way CDL is function one of the things that we think is advantageous is to bring in people potentially from different industries that are used to dealing especially in business that are used to dealing with these long-term Technologies that need significant technical de-risking both from uh, potentially from people that have worked in space or people that have worked in Healthcare, I think both of those groups have very good ideas about how to Manage the de-risking that needs to happen for climate My my one issue would be salience. I would love to see this issue get salience You know, we're in climate week right now I think there are maybe a very small number of the events of climate week are on CDR A very small piece of the discussion at COP will be on CDR And therefore very little discussion among the world's appropriators and policy makers And investors and so we need to raise the salience and we need these And we need these images like the bathtub emptying like pollution cleanup whatever it is to crack this nut of Obliviousness around this pathway for climate action Yeah, I couldn't agree more on the things that I've already mentioned I think one thing in terms of market development. It would help a lot if the science-based target initiative so the organization has to verify Corporate net zero pledges and plans Whether they accept or you know Say or or indicate that they accept removals as part of net zero commitment because that I think will then, you know Allow corporates that might not have Procurity are yet to decide to do so and that that would then drive the market forward I would just say people we need more people in that space So if you're not working on CDR or in climate change, you should and you should think about it It's scary. It's don't get a you know scared by technicalities There is a space for everyone whether you're doing marketing sales Accounting We're building a we're building a new industry. So we need everyone here and it can take time. I've done it 10 years ago But there is really a space for everyone to to contribute here Okay, I think I think that'll do it today I just shared a link of where we will be posting the recording of the session on our x-prise events page Thank you all so much for joining us. You should have all of our contact info So definitely feel free to follow up with us Participate in these programs and help us spread the word about all of the topics that we were talking about today Thanks, everyone Thank you. Good night. Yeah, thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks. Thank you guys. Thanks, David. Thank you