 Paul Ryan's health care bill is about to die in the house. That's because it forgot to sign up for Obamacare It's 3 a.m. on Tuesday March 21st 2017. I'm David Feldman. We've got a lot of show. So let's get right to it Welcome to the broadcast. I'm David Feldman David Feldman show comm on today's program author Chuck Closter man remembers Chuck Berry Professor Corey Brett Schneider teaches constitutional law at Brown University He has a piece in Time Magazine this week on Trump's supreme court pick We talked to Professor Corey Brett Schneider about that and I try to get free legal advice on my divorce also comedian comedy writer and author Frank Conif is back comedian comedy writer Kevin Avery who just won a writer's guild award for his work on last week tonight with John Oliver stops by along with my best buddy comedian Eric Brandstein I want you to listen to the show and I want it to be easy for you. So we have a youtube channel It's an audio version of the show eventually we'll have video when my divorce is over and I can afford plastic surgery Hey, please subscribe to my youtube channel. Please go to youtube type in David Feldman comedy and there we are and listen You can also listen to us on itunes stitcher and by going to David Feldman show comm Where we will show you all the different platforms to access the show How do you listen? Let me know. What's the easiest way for you to hear this show? I'm all ears literally. I have no face Torso or legs. It's just two ears in a mouth I want to thank all the listeners who have contacted me to offer their suggestions on how to improve the show One suggestion was to stop doing it. I'm not going to do that I believe comedy is fascism. I think there has to be one unifying comedy principle dictating the sensibility of a show, but This podcast isn't fascism. It's an amalgamation Of people who book it produce it edit it appear on it And more importantly listen to it So I appreciate your feedback Many of your suggestions I act upon you know that For example, somebody just wrote in asking me to book Nick Mullen from come town They want him back again and we're reaching out Another example is yesterday somebody suggested I gobble down a bottle of second all with a gin and vermouth chaser Then slip into a hot bath and open my veins Thank you for that suggestion future wife number four But second all it's hard to come by these days and more importantly future wife number four And I know who you are if you want to communicate with me you still have my cell phone number You don't have to keep going through the contact page on my website to get my attention Also, I know it's you future wife number four who's been writing those reviews of the show on itunes People read the reviews of the show on itunes to determine whether or not they want to subscribe That's all Whether or not I have clammy hands And change my socks and underwear six times in the course of a single day has absolutely no bearing on the quality of this show It does not belong In a review of this podcast on itunes future wife number four So you're not hurting or embarrassing me my listeners can get past that trinket of knowledge about me I'm a flawed human Just like every other red-blooded american male who can only achieve orgasm by silently malving colonel walter e curtsis sililoquy from apocalypse now that's how I achieve orgasm by silently Mouthing colonel walter e curtsis sililoquy from apocalypse now The genius the will to do that perfect genuine complete crystalline pure If I had 10 divisions of those men Our troubles here would be over very quickly You have to have men who are moral and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling Without passion without judgment without judgment because it's judgment that defeats us And yeah, no way I can get past that. Maybe if I'm thinking of baseball players, I can hold back Baseball players can only you know specifically from league of their own Speaking of baseball Yes, speaking of baseball. It's march 21st the winter of our discontent has given way to the spring of disconnect And by disconnect, I mean paul ryan who due to heavy volume from disgruntled constituents Paul ryan has disconnected his fax machine because republican speakers Refused to listen The speaker has turned off all his public telephone and fax machines in response to protests in favor of obama care Planned parenthood medicare. He's not accepting signed petitions. Instead. He's turning away voters who deliver them to his office so The post office still works get out a 45 cent stamp It will help the post office And right to paul ryan. Here's his address paul ryan 700 st. Lawrence avenue janesville, wisconsin five three five four five that's paul ryan 700 st. Lawrence avenue janesville, wisconsin five three five four five You know i'm a historian and unlike paul ryan's bill. I remember g.o.p Speaker denis has sturtz health care plan Which would ensure every american child kept his mouth shut wrestling coach Dennis has sturt i told that joke to my old friend comedian roody reiber and he said well Not shut all the time Winter is officially over. We we try to force it, but spring comes when it's supposed to come no matter how much ex unmobile alters our weather And by the way, australia australia How is it possible that you're celebrating autumn right now when we're celebrating spring? I see what you've been up to you think we're stupid You guys have your summer when we have our winter You don't think i don't know you're the ones priming the pump for climate change Stop trying to change the climate You know where the hole in the ozone started in australia back in the 80s this entire climate change thing began in australia For some reason. I don't know why australia just wants to keep changing the climate on us I guess this is what happens when you take a penal colony and turn it into a country Great britain years ago centuries ago took all the people predisposed to crime and shipped them off to australia And then these criminals broke away from the united kingdom and formed a nation Entirely predisposed to crime crime is built into australia's dna So i know what you're up to australia celebrating christmas during the dog days of summer You're stealing our climate You're stealing our winters and turning it into summer our autumns into our springs and i want it to stop Meanwhile here in the united states. We're cutting meals on wheels. We're going to attack north korea and i'm talking nonsense Complete and utter nonsense. I know i know How was your weekend mine? exceptionally horrid They got me They got me they got me last week And you could tell they got me if you listened to friday's episode I had three terrific guests on friday's show two of my comedy heroes from san francisco bobby slayton will durst Plus the editor of world policy reviewed judo grunstein. He talked to us from paris three great guests But i was totally unprepared because i'm not reading I fell off my high horse. I did I had been so above it all i thought i could do this show forever lash out of the system And at the same time remain immune from the toxicity of it all But they got me And by they i mean the voices in my head that side with the abuser the abuser Is the richest one percent Who have set up a system that keeps us in a perpetual state of fear So that we're just too frightened to challenge them Too frightened to be anything other than compliant. I'm filled. You're filled. We're all filled with a fear of going to war a fear of terrorism Some of us are stupid enough to fear mexicans and most importantly all of us Every single one of us every single member of the 99 percent Is terrified that we're going to lose our health care That is the latest terror The latest distraction being rained upon us by the richest one percent. They are threatening the richest one percent are threatening To take away our health care because it scares us And when we're scared they can distract us. They can do things Over there in the corner little pressed the digitization distract the eye scare us over here Because we're too busy trying to keep ourselves and our loved ones alive We're over here looking at the you know your left hand and the right hand is stealing more money from us The idea that the richest country on the planet could have millions upon millions of its citizens without health care Is the greatest scandal of our time If you're listening overseas, let me tell you what it means to be an american Who isn't part of the one percent We are terrified of getting killed Either by the cops the vigilantes The lunatics who get their hands on the 300 million guns circulating But most importantly, we're terrified of getting killed by the private corporations that profit off health care Private corporations that profit off our health care. I'm not talking only about the insurers Who run health care? I'm talking about every single fortune 500 company I mean every company in america Because since world war two Instead of providing the greatest generation with government sponsored universal health insurance The way great britain did under the leadership of prime minister clement atley who replaced wincent Churchill temporarily At the end of world war two. He gave us he gave us. He gave the british universal health insurance america went to employee based health insurance You cannot get health insurance in america. Basically unless you have a job and why is that because We decided to return to our roots slavery Employee based health insurance is slavery If your job provides health insurance Then then health insurance becomes the shackles The benefits for your family become the 40 lashes If you try to escape If you try to leave your job, we're going to take your health benefits away So nobody leaves a job in america Because we're terrified of dying We're terrified that our wives and children will lose their health insurance How much innovation Is being clogged How much of the animal spirits Are being oppressed because every single working class american is too terrified to pursue their vision Quit their job and create a new business Instead of innovation instead of stepping out and trying to create a new business We stay where we are. Nobody leaves a job in america We put up with every single violation in the book. We keep our mouth shut We do what we're told because if we don't If we don't do what we're told they will fire us And we will die. We will lose our healthcare. We will die. Our children will die 50 000 americans die each year because We don't have insurance You're gonna complain because you think there might be asbestos in the cooling vents that you're off No, you're a troublemaker. You're gonna get fired. So you suck it up You suck up the asbestos. You suck up your bosses nicotine starbucks Taco bell breath because it's not about your fulfillment at work It's about your life and your children's life and your wife's life The most terrifying thing in america Is losing your health insurance Actually, it's the second most terrifying thing in america the most terrifying thing in america is Chris christie walking on the beach in a banana hammock If you're part of the 99 percent You're enslaved. You can't lose your job because then you might die It is the ultimate form of control employer-based health care Corporations providing it to their slaves For-profit health care corporations who provide the health care to those slaves It's all about profits and how do you make more money? You keep the customer terrified You keep the customer terrified and confused. That's how health insurance companies Make more money That's how all businesses try to make money keep the customer terrified I'm trying to wrap up my divorce and that's exactly how divorce attorneys work. They keep everybody frightened Of what? What are you frightened of? They make us frightened. They make the husband and the wife frightened of exercising our constitutional right to go to court It's in the constitution. I have a right to go to court But these mount banks these imposters these charlatans these blocks these stones these Worse than senseless things these divorce attorneys Every single one of them they use our constitutional right to a trial In order to scare us into paying them everything we have They say you don't want to go to court. It's way too expensive You know why it's too expensive because divorce attorneys have colluded To make it too expensive and the judges want in because when they retire when they retire They become mediators and earn 10 times what they got sitting on the bench And they work not for the clients Not for the people getting a divorce They work for the divorce attorneys Because these retired judges who serve as mediators They want to get hired by the divorce attorneys again and again and again for the next mediation These judges these retired judges. They don't work for the for you and me. They work for divorce attorneys Because that's where the next gig is you and I We only have one divorce maybe six if we're lucky These attorneys these retired judges they have 60 going at one time And it's a restraint of trade. It's a monopoly. It's a violation of the rico predicates I have no idea what rico predicates mean. I learned it from the sopranos Which i'm pretty sure gives me enough expertise to become a divorce attorney I would call my divorce attorney a scumbag But a scumbag actually protects me from getting into trouble a scumbag Collects everything that could cost me a lot of money and hides it from the woman who can grow a molehill into a mountain A scumbag protects me from whatever evil is lurking out there A scumbag keeps me safe. It allows me to sleep at night And when i'm done with a scumbag, I just throw it in the trash where every divorce lawyer in america belongs Divorce lawyers aren't smart. They just lack empathy. They lack the gene that causes shame They are sociopaths Who only want money So when I look at paul ryan and ask How could a human being deny health care to 24 million people? When I look at that guy white house budget director mc mulvaney He's trump's budget director mc Mulvaney, sorry mc mulvaney he replaced uh obama's budget director He bore zag and george w bush's budget director waspy mc wasperson mc mc mulvaney Did you see mc mulvaney on the sunday shows? He's cutting meals on wheels after school programs That feed children mc mulvaney, he's not a human being. He's a divorce lawyer who will say and do anything to make money You can't possibly I can't possibly fathom the depths of depravity in these people because they're not people mc mulvaney paul ryan They're ted bundy They are the sociopaths next door who put on a suit and tie kiss their wives and kids goodbye Promise to be home by five to coach little league then they get in the car Call their secretaries to say they're going to be in the office about three hours late because they have a breakfast meeting And then they drive down to the bus station wave a $100 bill at a 19 year old blonde male runaway Runaway gets into the car. They drive down to the river Were parts of that runaway will eventually be seen floating by That is who paul ryan is that is who mc mulvaney is They get off on depriving people of food stamps They get off on the idea of people losing their health insurance Because they're sadists. They're sociopaths Mulvaney actually said cutting meals on wheels is an act of compassion to the coal miner in west virginia Whose hard-earned taxes are being wasted by making sure senior citizens get a healthy meal five days a week Those are the precise verbal gymnastics a divorce attorney would practice The taxes a coal miner pays any taxes a coal miner pays They don't go to meals on wheels A coal miner's taxes basically go to social security and medicare And whatever's left over from his taxes gets eaten up by all the other mandatory items in the budget And if you ask that coal miner if he wants his money to go to meals on wheels or feeding school children He'd say yes, absolutely Only a depraved sociopath would invoke a beleaguered coal miner from west virginia in order to convince ordinary americans that cutting food for old people and kids is an act of compassion Who do you think are some of the first people who are going to need meals and wheels? And after school programs to feed their food challenge kids Coal miners Do you see what these sociopaths are doing? They act and think like divorce attorneys because they are not human You're going to cut food to grandma and her grandchildren because some of that food might get wasted That's an act of compassion But you're not going to insist the general electric microsoft apple And all the other fortune 500 companies based in america you're not going to insist that they repatriate the money They're hiding overseas the trillions of dollars and taxes that they don't pay We all know the biggest corporations in america are paying little to no taxes But instead of making them pay their way instead the republicans insist We cut aid to dependent families and wrap those cuts in compassion An act of compassion Mick Mulaney calls this an act of compassion. What ragged edged beast has the richest one percent Delivered to us and the guys of the republican party And how do they get away with it? Because you and I are scared. We're scared of losing our health care, which is provided by our our employer We're scared of losing our health care because the republicans have guided government to the point where there is no social safety net To protect us from the greed of the corporations Of the richest one percent of the 40 families that own america You can't live on welfare. You can't live on food stamps. You can't live on the GOP plan to replace obama care Our only path to survival here in the united states Is not making waves not making waves at work making sure you don't get fired And the only way not to get fired is to keep your mouth shut So if your boss if your corporation is doing something illegal or immoral Lips are sealed Otherwise, you're going to get fired You're going to lose your health insurance And you and your family will die from lack of medical care. You will starve Because you will not have enough money to nourish your kids Yes, sir. No, sir Whatever you say sir That's who we are america That's who 99% Of americans are So the divorce attorneys got me last week They bullied and scared and they ran down my retainer Just when a court date was fast approaching and they wanted more they wanted more money from me and when I said Hey guys, I you know, I've paid you and my soon-to-be ex-wife is paying you. Why haven't you finished up? And that question why haven't you finished up? Well, that suddenly becomes a breakdown In our attorney-client relationship and we're afraid you need to seek new counsel And of course, that's a threat. That's a cudgel because seeking new counsel is expensive Because you have to hire a new attorney and then you have to pay that attorney to come up to speed That cost money that cost hours And the divorce attorney winding down my retainer. He knows that So he tells me I better behave I better bend over and keep my mouth shut Because my constitutional right to go to court is too expensive and getting a new lawyer is also expensive So I'm supposed to just go along with this evil construct This thing of ours this thing of theirs This mafia this canned hunt We're a struggling couple Like me and my ex-wife were set free on a private estate and two slimy Slytherin graduates from the oral roberts university of law They take part in this canned hunt. They they bag their trophies deluding themselves that this is all fair because It's the law But it's not the law. It's the wild west divorce Like republican politics Isn't the law. It's the use of money and power to transfer whatever the 99 percent has into their bank accounts That's what divorce is That's what republican economics is since reagan became president We have seen the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class Right up to the richest 1% Nothing was created in this country other than new tax laws Other than new subsidies There's no silicon valley. There's no free market The government It's the government despite what the g.o.p. Will tell you It's the government that controls the winners and the losers through tax subsidies and government contracts There is no microsoft IBM ExxonMobil without washington dc The very same people who came to washington when reagan got elected They were the ones who told you that government isn't the solution. It's the problem These very same people have turned washington dc Into a check cashing machine for the richest 1% And you know whose checks they're cashing The ones you and i make out to the internal revenue service Back when reagan was president the corporate elite said the action is no longer in dc That's what they told that's what they told us Meanwhile, the corporate elites they all moved in they took over k street. They took over congress They took over both parties and washington dc They took that over and they turned the house of representatives Otherwise known as the people's house Into the corporations house, which is why by 2010 this country was so sick so turned around Our language so debased That the roberts court actually ruled in citizens united The corporations are people Corporations are people The opposite of a person Is a corporation Corporations rip off and kill people corporations are not people But they had to be they had to be people because how could the people's house? How could the people's house? congress be owned and operated by a corporation And still be called the people's house unless corporations were identified as people corporations are people That's right corporations are people and cutting food for the poor is now an act of compassion Orwell isn't rolling over in his grave He's getting exhumed by paul ryan and mick mulvaney so they can sodamize him eaten style eaten style And that's the roughest way to get sodamized English boarding school style No money for children and old people 24 million people 24 million americans will lose their health insurance But the trump budget somehow has an extra 50 billion for defense An extra 50 billion dollars for defense defense from whom Who would attack us? I mean other than the g.o.p We have a military that's so bloated. We cannot audit the pentagon. They have tried But they have no idea where all that money goes I'm serious. It is impossible to audit the pentagon's budget Which is more than half a trillion dollars a year And they won't audit the federal reserve They refuse to audit the federal reserve because the pentagon and the federal reserve is like the skim and goodfellas But instead of seven different mafia families clamoring for the unmarked bills This time it's ex on mobile microsoft jp morgan ibm walmart and the mercer family and the coke brothers You can't have a corporate state without washington dc There is no free market There's not even a pentagon cia There's not a federal reserve or congress. These are just cash delivery systems to the richest one percent Now the fed turned a hundred. I think it was a year ago two years ago And it was all set up to keep inflation as well as the unemployment rate low But since reagan actually since valker Was appointed by carter The only thing the fed cares about is inflation The fed has a mandate to protect the working family but since The last two years of carter The fed has been about cheap money because cheap money benefits bankers And wall street while leaving the average working family no investment options other than crappy bonds and stocks Cheap money means a low savings rate And that benefits the bankers and wall street The fed is not looking out for the working family The same way the fed doesn't protect the taxpaying citizen The pentagon doesn't protect us either Because nobody wants to attack us Canada Mexico mexicans are leaving more mexicans are moving back to mexico than are coming here Because mexicans go where the good jobs are You think they like it here in america? You really think they find it an honor to wipe your ass? Are there terrorists? Yeah But the terrorists we need to fear are not in the middle east The terrorists we really need to fear they're already living here. They're the disenfranchised Mostly white christian males who have been convinced the evil big government Is trying to confiscate their guns I like our military. Do I love the men and women of our military? Yeah, I do And they do protect us In fact, I love the military so much. I want to bring back the draft I want everybody's kid to serve I want Barbara and jenna bush to serve I even want the conscientious objectors to be forced to go into the army If you think war is wrong come on in everybody's voice should be heard Whenever we are pitched a muscular foreign policy by the neo liberals or the neo conservatives There's really no difference between neo liberals and neo conservatives when it comes to foreign policy We are reminded that nature abhors a vacuum and if we don't step in if america Doesn't become the policeman of the world Someone else will do it But america is not the policeman of the world Nobody is Nobody can be We have the strongest military in the world we do But have we really been tested? We've picked fights with panama, granada, iraq and iraq So we haven't really tested it There is no such thing and there will never be such thing Ever as the strongest military in the world because once you have the mightiest weapons Your opponents fight you on a different field Cyber war Look what russia is doing Remember those improvised explosive devices in iraq? George w bush went to war in iraq with no way to protect our soldiers from roadside bombs The biggest military in the history of civilization Couldn't protect our precious boys and women From improvised Explosive devices Donald rumsfeld At the height of these ied's maiming our troops killing our troops donald rumsfeld said you go to war with the army You have not the army. You wish you have He didn't say the weapons or the protection or the armor You have not the armor you wish you have the army you wish you have You wish you have that's a classic divorce lawyer move blame the victim He's saying he wishes he had a better army. The armies are soldiers They were the ones getting their limbs blown off Because rumsfeld and all his meticulous planning all those micro questions he referred to as snowflakes He wrote thousands upon thousands of memos before going to war making sure we were prepared to invade He was He was ready. You know, he's he's got a corporate mind But it never occurred to him that the strongest military in the world could suffer fatalities and injuries from something as simple as a roadside bomb a wire tin can and some rusty nails Just sitting there waiting for a tank to run over it But rumsfeld was the expert. In fact, this was his second tour as defense secretary. Certainly. He knew what he was doing It doesn't matter if you know what you're doing If what you're doing is wrong The invasion of iraq was wrong and rumsfeld bush and cheney should be tried at the hag George w bush is making the rounds these days. He's got a new book It's very sweet. He painted portraits of wounded soldiers and all the profits from that book are they're going to the wounded soldiers And because in america we have no memory Even i watch bush and feel sorry for him because he is quite the charmer And you get a sense that he's honestly suffering because of what he did to iraq and to our soldiers You get a sense That he knows he messed up royally He knows he was fed faulty intel He knows that his ego got the best of him That he thought he could have a splendid little war as teddy roosevelt used to call them He knew that he was convinced that he could bring the troops home and nobody would get hurt Nobody would get injured. You know except the women and children of iraq When you look at bush these days You can tell he's haunted At least i hope he's haunted. I mean his eyes Are pretty spooked Either that he's a good actor And you know what george w If you're haunted Not my problem If you really want to help the soldiers george w Put down the brush Put away the easel Write a different book Write an apology Want to help our soldiers write a book That tells the cautionary tale of what arrogance stupidity and lies Due to america what they do to our soldiers Write a book that teaches the american voter and future presidents And future citizens Write a book that teaches us What exactly the warning signs are for people Who want to detect a liar a lying president who wants to lie his way into an unjust war Otherwise I think you should just suffer in silence I'm sure you think you're helping these wounded warriors bringing them to your ranch and getting to know them and painting them But just like you george i'm a big picture guy I don't like to get bogged down with this soldier and that soldier I like to look at the big picture. I like to make sure there are no more wounded soldiers ever again Because of incompetent lying immoral presidents commander and chiefs Like george w bush and the way To make sure we never get bogged down in a war like iraq again Is you write a book entitled i was wrong here's why? And here's how to make sure we never Are wrong again By george w bush That's a book that i would read Lately i'm not reading they got me They got me last week when i was told rex tillerson the Secretary of state who used to be the head of ex on mobile when i was told that he now wants to go to war with north korea I thought wait North korea has oil Isn't that cold country? Why are we gonna go after north korea? And then i rolled over and went back to bed I've been sleeping a lot. I fell off my high horse If you listen to friday show i was on the phone If you heard i was on the phone with all three of my guests Phoning it in i didn't have the energy to tackle But it's the most important thing in my life right now and that is the show They won But you know when i fail as i did on friday show as i am in my life these past couple of months It's important to get back into the light to start walking again to start walking And try not to look back try not to point fingers Just that's what i'm told just keep walking Just the only finger you need to be pointing is the one that's pointing you in the direction of where you need to be Heading and that is forward. That's the american way. Don't look back I'm told pointing fingers Looking back blaming people gets you nowhere It's true, but i'm introspective I need to know how i got where i am before i keep going because i'm tired I need to rest Yeah, i see the light coming up in the east. I know to walk towards it But my feet hurt I need to look around and see where the others are Why are some of us left behind? Is that light that i'm walking to Up in the east is that the same light? Everybody else is going to get to Are you going to join me? You're going to be left behind I'm 58 but i'm 99 99 percent And if i don't march if you don't march with the 99 percent then we will be all alone just like the 1 percent The 1 percent they're all alone They have no friends or lovers They're terrified and they project their fears Anxiety onto us. They cannot believe what they're getting away with Donald trump cannot believe what he is getting away with and he wants to get caught They want this to be over with They're sick Like every sociopath that gets caught they say thank god It's finally over My life mission these days is social justice mixed with comedy One of my heroes was abby hoffman. He was a yippie He mixed comedy with revolution and when i was growing up that looked like fun. It was sexy But abby hoffman was a manic depressive who ended up committing suicide He committed suicide because in the end the american system the economic forces that serve the 1 percent That mold the destiny of each individual These economic forces made it impossible for somebody like abby hoffman to get the medical Mental health treatment. He needed to stay alive. And so he ended it. He could be killed himself So that scares me And that's why i shy away from the word revolution. He liked the word revolution I don't like the word revolution. It's filled with the grandiosity of a manic depressive like abby hoffman I don't believe in revolution. I believe in the permanent revolution that is america I learned that from of all people newt gingrich the billiards speaker of the house who led the 1994 revolution that ushered in A permanent republican majority in the house We've had a permanent Republican majority in the house except for those four years between 2006 and 2010 2010 the republicans came back because the democrats ushered in obama care just barely Newt taught me that our founding fathers gave us the gift of a permanent revolution By giving us a house of representatives that gets turned over every two years The most important branch of our government is the legislative branch and of the two chambers The house of representatives is far more important than the senate because the house of representatives It controls the purse springs the house controls fiscal policy And by fiscal policy, I mean how our tax dollars are spent As opposed to the fed which controls monetary policy and that monetary policy controls how our money is saved Well, that's a lot of power in the house of representatives That's a lot of power for the voters to have We don't control the fed. We control the house of representatives Trump is the orange face of the gop, but paul ryan the speaker of the republican house He is the face the real face of our government If he weren't aligned divorce lawyer level sociopath Paul ryan's face would be beat red from embarrassment But he's incapable A sociopath like that is incapable of shame of remorse The republican party now controls all three branches of our government And they finally shown their tiny little hands They have revealed they stand for nothing other than the 40 richest families in the world Everything the republicans say everything they propose Is a distraction from their sole purpose Which is to protect the 40 richest families on earth To control their wealth and transfer more wealth from the 99 percent to the richest 1 percent Tax subsidies tax cuts drilling rights pentagon contracts Those are the only things the gop stands for Because the gop stands for one thing the 40 richest families Who control more than half the wealth in our planet How is it possible for these republicans to carry the water for the richest 1 percent Without feeling horrible Well, they're sociopaths Also, they're part of the richest 1 percent And if they're not part of the richest 1 percent, they want to be the 1 percent And they know the ones who are not part of the richest 1 percent. They know that if they play ball Eventually they can be part of the that club of viagra chuggin Steakhouse habituase Habituase I like that word habituase Hmm, and if you want to know how they feel you don't know what it's like to be a sociopath, but if you want to know How they feel what motivates them the why Find the nicest five-star hotel in your city late at night wander around the lobby when it's quiet It's really nice It's really nice. It's intoxicating Some people You know poor republicans They experience that and they say as god is my witness. I will never go hungry again And they do whatever it takes to move in to the richest 1 percent So why am I weak? Why have I stopped? Why did I stop reading? Why did I just stare at the tv because the system paralyzed me last week? I need to deal with divorce attorneys who are really quite adept at wearing you down They create false urgencies in order to take your money while blaming you the client for all their mistakes They make false promises. They never intended to keep They make your head spin with lies. You can't possibly keep track of And when you do keep track of those lies and you call them on those lies They resort to well-trained linguistic somersaults that always turn the victim into the assailant Donald trump the republican party paul ryan mic mulvaney They are divorce attorneys I'm not joking around They are and the only way to beat a divorce attorney is to take the fight Into a system that they haven't already rigged Read sun sue you cannot fight a divorce attorney You cannot fight donald trump Where they thrive You can't beat a divorce attorney if you think there's actually a judge or a bar association that's going to discipline them You are sorely mistaken because divorce attorneys police their own so If you complain If you complain to a divorce attorney and go to the bar association You might as well be an african-american Complaining to the police chief of furgus in missouri about all the traffic stops The bar association is essentially a kangaroo court of criminals pretending to put other criminals on trial In order for a lawyer to get disbarred in order for a divorce lawyer to get disbarred and I do mean this He or she would have to do something so egregious The disbarment could only come after some other criminal activity had been proven in a court of law That's how lawyers police other lawyers Unless a lawyer is facing actual prison time The legal profession here in the united states has no problem with that lawyer Especially a divorce attorney practicing law Divorce law In america, it's thunderdome. It's a cock fight There's no law. It's mixed martial arts. It's lies A divorce lawyer Can legally put anything into writing a divorce lawyer can literally slander somebody and you can't sue them because Divorce lawyers make the rules And the rules have been set up. So the divorce is only about transferring the assets of a married couple Into the pockets of the attorneys representing the man and woman in crisis divorce To paraphrase general smidley butler is a racket I'm not making that up Ask a divorce lawyer. It is a racket It's because our legal system has been privatized by the family law community That's what they call it a community Every divorce attorney I meet said, oh, he's very respected in the family law community. It's not a community But you think they have picnics father son ambulance chases It's not a community These are just mobsters with law degrees who devised a way to make going a trial so expensive That a couple getting a divorce has to depend on lawyers and retired judges who serve as private mediators You have to rely on lawyers and and retired judges To keep it cheap To just get the marriage over with And what these divorce attorneys and retired judges do they have this cozy little system? They take people in crisis and they turn up the heat and then they turn down the heat and they bill for the heat And they just wind down your retainer shuffling papers Using our constitutional right to go to court as a cudgel against the client scaring the client with expensive court filings Even though the divorce is never going to court The retainer is wound down by calling opposing counsel Looking at the divorce couples assets and then discussing how much money the two of them the two divorce attorneys not the couple How much the two divorce attorneys can divide between them? Well, my son just got into UCLA Your daughter's going to dart myth. Why don't you charge them This and I'll charge them that and let's keep the divorce going an extra three months A divorce in america has a timetable determined By the divorce lawyers and how much money They can take from the couple It is a mafia bust out Lawyers have a system set in place They realize they learn Your spread eagle your wide open They find out how much money you have And then they just deploy a series of maneuvers designed to scare the couple into turning All their money over to the lawyers If you think i'm making this up, I am not Ask a divorce attorney They are the limbs of satan Divorce attorneys are the limbs of satan They are remorseless borderline personalities who cannot be cured Check the dsm They are the limbs of satan And they can't be cured They are donald trump They are paul ryan They don't keep track of their lies Because Divorce attorneys just like donald trump and paul ryan Know that if they just keep lying Eventually Good people Will just go away donald trump Divorce lawyers they understand one thing that if you just keep going if you just don't stop Good people and most of us are good people. We just throw up our hands and simply say Please get this nightmare over with give give that give this give this Monstrosity whatever he wants. I just want him to go away. That's what a divorce attorney is They're not smart They're not clever That's why they're divorce attorneys Now divorce attorneys donald trump They're just willing to do the things normal healthy humans People who aren't borderline personalities. They're willing to do those things That normal people would find distasteful There is no limit to how far you can go here in america as long as you are willing to do and say the things Good decent people Just don't have the mental illness to do and say I don't have the dsm near me. I'm traveling so I can't diagnose donald trump and honestly It's unethical for a comedy writer And a comedian and podcaster to offer up a diagnosis of donald trump I will say that He is smart enough to know he's a sociopath And like all sociopath He's thinking to himself. What do I have to do? What do I have to say? What does it take for someone to put me out of my misery? The same goes for divorce lawyers donald trump and divorce lawyers They do have their kryptonite It's not the legal system It's not politics It's shame They hate shame a divorce attorney donald trump They have thin skin because they're snakes. They have thin skin because snakes Are constantly shedding their skin So it's always new And it's always thin They are bullies stand up to them shame them They are disgusting. They are disgusting people divorce attorneys donald trump Is disgusting He knows he's disgusting His kryptonite donald trump's kryptonite Is reminding him that he's disgusting So donald trump I know who you are. I know exactly who you are donald trump Every day you get out of bed alone Because malania who you can't get it up for is in new york city There are no women being brought into the white house because you're 70 You don't want a woman. You're on propitia I read your medical report your doctor says you're on propitia. That's the hair growth pill At 70 that renders a morbidly obese man like you donald trump. It renders you impotent That's why you grab pussy Because you lack the two messians To place it inside You can't have sex donald You have to watch two russian hookers urinate Because when you're morbidly obese the way you are When the blood doesn't flow down to where it needs to go All that's left for you is sadism humiliation Seeing others demeaned is the only thrill left for donald trump We know exactly who you are donald trump You get out of bed every morning. You spend an hour looking in the mirror Applying that spray tan And then looking both ways making sure nobody's watching you making sure obama Is in monitoring your every move through your electric toothbrush Yeah, you uh dip into the drawer and pull out that golden lion mane On a spool and uh you get the loom And you begin to spin it on your head That's your morning ritual don And it takes about one two hours And you're there in the bathroom looking in the mirror just seeing how disgusting a human being you are Each painstaking swirl of that hair The fastening of the clips The attention to detail For each golden strand that only serves as your morning meditation on who you really are donald trump You're a stomach turning fraud Your hair is fake And it just doesn't cover your baldness It covers up what's underneath your baldness Your misfiring syphilis ravaged brain You know you're sick And as you get ready for your day as you douse yourself with aramus to cover up the stench of your billious rot You wonder What do I have to do to finally get caught? What do I have to say to get caught? How many people do I have to rip off and lie to before they finally end this? Trump we know you want to get caught That's your punishment We're not taking you out of your misery As I just said sociopaths like trump when they're finally arrested and put away for life the first thing they always say to the cops is Good it's finally over No, donald trump your punishment. You're gonna wander the halls of the white house for the next four years all alone Like some episode of night gallery That's your torture That's your punishment It's never gonna stop You're not gonna get caught It's just gonna keep going on and on for the next four years You're a sociopath donald trump. I'd ask you to check the dsm But we have now reached that point here in the united states where it's no longer just about alternative facts It's also about alternative medicine We've met your doctor harold borne stain This is he is the embodiment Of alternative medicine or more accurately the alternative to medicine the alternative to medical school and the hippocratic oath the same way paul ryan's health care plan is an alternative to actual health care You hate yourself donald trump you know you're disgusting But you know the people who voted for you The people who pay their taxes we have no idea what it what it's like to feel like you to feel that fat To suffer the indignity of taylor's fitting you for an inaugural suit And then the night before you take the sacred oath of office that taylor has to come back in and let that suit out Because even though nobody touched your suit It has shrunk three sizes And it can no longer mask the marbled white varicose vein infused flab drooping over your flaccid thimble sized penis we Have no idea what it's like For you to have to hire a zookeeper to come into the white house to sneak into the white house To come into your bathroom and deliver the lion mane And then watch the seamstress working furiously to spool the lion mane And then give way to the team of construction workers who labor over your scalp to attach the beams and lower the struts And pour the cement so that thing you call hair stays in place And then there's the building permits for your hair the inspectors all that Just so donald trump Can appear in public And not be bald Donald you hate your body And that's why you're obsessed with body image and that's why you body shame women because you're ashamed of yourself I've seen you freely admit that you don't exercise your only exercise is golf Which is essentially a sport for you getting in and out of a golf cart You get handed a club and you swing the club and then you get back into the golf cart That's why you're cutting meals for wheels That's why you are cutting food stamps That's why you're cutting education That's the only cardiovascular exercise you'll ever get cutting aid to dependent families Watching the expression on the faces of the elderly learning that the federal government Is cutting meals on wheels. That is the only activity that gets donald trump's heart rate up You are just an orange blob of bile donald trump. You don't jog. You don't walk You don't eat properly Your ass hurts your breath stinks Your face is saggy And you're bald That's why donald trump allegedly raped his first wife avana Read david k johnson's book on donald trump Avana the first wife gave a deposition during the divorce that claimed that donald allegedly raped her Eventually that statement was redacted because like any wife trying to get her ex-husband to pay her She figured she'd enter into the proceedings the divorce proceedings With something that he'd be willing to pay her to keep her mouth shut about That's how divorce works It's about money avana's divorce attorney probably said What is true? What do you have on them? That is absolutely true What do you have that if it came out in public would devastate donald trump? What would he pay? To have you keep quiet about Well, allegedly avana's answer was he raped me allegedly Avana's no idiot. She was born behind the iron curtain and check of slavakia as i've told you before in this show The russians recognized avana As brilliant So they turned her over to vladimir putin. This was back in the 70s. He was working for the kgb. He became her handler And this is way way back before the end of the soviet union before the end of communism That's you know when brezhnev was running things So putin sent avana to america as a sleeper cell agent where she was given the assignment of marrying an incompetent son of a real estate tycoon and then Using her brain power to turn him into a brand A brand that could eventually become president a president who would fall under the spell of russian autocrats Eventually avana grew tired of trump's stench So as a favor vladimir putin still her kgb handler He replaced avana with malania who was also born behind the iron curtain in slavinia Working with avana these two russian agents continued to control donald trump While reporting back to putin Trying to sorry about that Trying to do a left-wing version of the alex jones show On a different podcast and we confused The scripts so back to the divorce Back to trump and the divorce attorneys who hate themselves and who are begging to be punished Back to donald trump allegedly raping avana who is not a soviet era sleeper cell Marla maples is See, that's the genius of lettimer putin You create a marriage canapé with avana and malania serving as the two red herrings that disguise what's really inside The seemingly southern bell marla maples Or should i say iliana rosa kolovich from stalin grad Yeah, marla is the kgb sleeper cell Marla you thought you could fool a corleone? We know Okay, so when avana needed to come up with a secret that donald would be willing to pair to keep secret She picked the two secrets. I believe that would be the most damning That he's bald and they can't get it up So he raped her This information has been redacted and mysteriously disappeared from the court files But the new york daily news and david k johnston Who recently got his hands on donald trump's 2005 tax filings. They've all written about this According to reports that i've read donald back in the 80s was going bald And avana at the time was no stranger to plastic surgery. She recommended a doctor to perform hair transplants For donald and this was back in the 80s Hair transplants were primitive think of elton john Think of me I'll get to me in a second. Well, one of the operations back then That donald got talked into Allegedly, this is what i've read Ivana and her plastic surgeon talked donald into getting something that was called scalp reduction. I'm not making this up it was Kind of big in the 80s. They try to talk me into scalp reduction, but luckily i demurred because Unlike donald trump. I do research and i discovered that scalp reduction Disfigures the skull and in the end it doesn't work Now the idea of a scalp reduction is before you get the hair transplants The surgeon goes in and actually reduces the area on top of the skull So there is less bald patch that needs to be filled in Yeah, it's you know Oh the tangled webs we weave When we practice to deceive and in donald's case that tangled web we weaved ended up Going on his head because the scalp reductions And the transplants were disaster and he actually needed a real weave A weave that's what they call we you know weaves, which is really just another way of saying to pay So according to vana, this is what I read donald went to see that hair doctor Donald didn't like the scalp reduction Didn't work. I guess he dug too deep and shrunk donald's brain You know donald said my scalp it's Scarred and the doctor said you need more hair transplants to cover up those scars from the scalp reduction But donald he was done with the surgery because donald doesn't like doctors Any guy who uses dr. Bornstein? He obviously hates doctors and more importantly donald hates himself and wants to die That's why he eats poorly. He doesn't exercise And lashes out at the intelligence community He wants to die Only somebody who wants to die Would lash out At our intelligence community Donald came back he showed Ivana the top of his skull the scars yelled at her for recommending that plastic surgeon who left his head permanently scarred and according to These court documents that are now missing. He allegedly was so incensed He proceeded to rape Ivana for for recommending that surgery And Ivana's divorce attorney knew that story contained three secrets that donald didn't want revealed One he is bald. That's not his hair Two he is a rapist and three Well, if if he's a rapist it's because he can't get it up or at least What he can get it up for is a close Approximation of rape impotence dr. Bornstein Revealed last year That to curtail the loss of whatever hair donald has Donald has been taking propitia since the 80s Now I was offered propitia because propitia Supposedly stops hair from falling out But I refuse to take propitia because back in the 80s I was warned back then that propitia's major side effect was impotence What a hellish bargain is that? You keep your hair women want to sleep with you, but now you can't get it up. Yeah, I'll I'll pass on that I'll just get more hair transplants. Thank you very much because I want two things. I want hair women And a penis that can satisfy those women When I lost my virginity when I lost my virginity Just when I became sexually active Detroit had discontinued the vaginal orgasm Apparently the vaginal orgasm was discontinued back in the late 70s because the price of oil was just making The vaginal orgasm prohibitive if you'll remember opec punished america for siding with israel during the umkipper war So saudi arabia and the rest of opec got even with america by dramatically raising the price of petroleum led to oil shortages long lines for lube and You need lube for a vaginal orgasm so the lines were around the corner and They started to ration sex because of the vaginal orgasm you need lube Well, detroit had to you know do something They discontinued the vaginal orgasm and replaced it with the clitoral orgasm Much sleeker much faster could go much longer without having to stop for a refill Unlike those clunky old fuel-guzzling vaginal orgasms Now of course there are guys like, you know j leno who still love the classics on sundays They like to trot out their vaginal orgasms They're you know good old farmers market. They're a vaginal orgasm enthusiast all over america And with the price of oil going down and down More and more middle-aged men my age have fun restoring old vintage vaginal orgasms They trade parts they rub they buff But that's really only reserved for men who have the time to work on a vaginal orgasm But for guys like me Have a lot to do And who want their partner to be able to walk the next day Which is also fuel efficient walking The clitoral orgasm That's the way to go the vaginal orgasm trust me is not like vinyl I know we have a lot of hipsters in brooklyn listening right now Don't go retro on this stick with the clitoral orgasm The highs and the lows aren't any better on the vaginal orgasm In fact while the tweeters are indistinguishable I will say the clitoral orgasm has a much richer woofer than the vaginal Tested for yourself, you know vaginal is analog Cliteral is digital And by digital I mean the best digit to use is your index finger I love to read and I just realize the reason I love to read it has nothing to do with learning It's all about licking my index finger to turn the page Okay, we're running out of time. I I want to talk about the tongue's relation to the clitoral orgasm next week When we tackle the early writings of adam smith Let's get back to donald trump and propitia So unlike donald trump. I didn't use propitia I knew that if I wanted hair I had to research this and do the heavy lifting So I just continue to get several rounds of hair transplants And they didn't work. I mean there was hair, but it was basically a glorified comb over Long story even longer I kept working on it. I made the rounds of hair transplant specialists. I got the estimates I got the estimates. See that's the difference between donald trump and me. I do research I look into things I'm educated I'm smart. I read I lick my index finger and read I don't take medical advice from some check euro trash of a wife and go see some flim flam plastic surgeon This is true. I met a wonderful surgeon named doctor sword I'm giving him a plug because he gave me quite a few himself He's a sweet sweet doctor. He's an honest man. He's in southern california. I think he retired But he specialized in repairing bad hair transplants. He looked at me and he said well, we have a lot of work to do And unlike a divorce attorney doctor sword told me specifically how much everything would cost how long would take What it would look like in the end and he was absolutely correct imagine that But one of the things that I had to do during that hair restoration To repair the damage from the hair transplants of the 80s. I had a where to pay I had a where to pay and that folks is what gives me insight Into donald trump's hellish existence It's why I know for a fact That he wants to die And that's why the to pay Must be seized by the secret service because it's killing him Trust me And I am an expert on two pays. Nobody can get one past me Former senate majority leader tom dashill. You're not fooling me Patrick stewart. I know that's a to pay terry bradshaw That's a comb under Now men who wear two pays They're the guys who drive corvettes And I don't mean they're insecure about their penis, but that is part of it. No men who drive corvettes Like men who wear two pays They will wave to each other on the highway because they're part of that special club A special club of lonely men who think that if they spend enough money On the accoutrements that wedding dj will stop stuffing his wife When a man with a two pay sees another man with a two pay They nod and then there's a silent agreement a silent agreement to stay away from each other Because it's uncomfortable being around the only person who knows your deepest darkest secret Right donald That's your kryptonite donald trump When we shame you for your deepest darkest secret That's how you get even with divorce attorneys or paul ryan or mc mulvaney Or donald trump. We know your secret. You hate yourself Men with two pays Are idiots they are completely out of touch and they can be talked into anything Look at donald trump's hair He was talked into that If somebody could talk donald trump into something as egregious as that thing on top of his head Imagine how easy it is To get him to greenlight a raid on yemen or an invasion of north korea He's pretty gullible. He believes anything like Hey, yeah, your hair looks great Which is why he's an inveterate liar He thinks If he believes The lie of his hair Everybody else must believe the lie of his hair and all his other lies But now donald We don't believe your lies. We're just polite We know it's a two pay jimmy fallon didn't rub your hair He rubbed the weave the two pay that had been securely fastened to your disfigured skull When a man wears a two pay He is living a lie because he is wearing a lie He is wearing a lie And most people know it's a two pay Which means that every day of your life you're making good polite people complicit in your lie You make everybody complicit in your lie because They want to say what the hell is that on top of your head But they'll lie Because they are not mean Most people are kind and polite and they are willing to go along with your lie The lie that there is not a dead possum on your head because they don't want to hurt your feelings but trump You like to think you're outsmarting us. You like to think you're pulling one. You like to think you're pulling one over on the people You're not outsmarting us. You're not tricking us We're not that stupid No donald. We know it's a two pay We know you hate yourself But there are so many other reasons to make fun of you We don't talk about the two pay anymore But you just keep lying Because you're sick You're sick like paul ryan and you're sick Like pence and malvaney You're all sick You're disgusting You're rotting inside and you're losing Because we know exactly who you are Your divorce attorneys And what's the answer Well, for me next time I get married instead of a divorce attorney, I'm going to go with the hitman But only to take me out of my misery Chuck Berry died saturday at his home outside st. louis missouri at the age of 90 Doctors say the legendary rock icon died from natural causes Berry's body of work includes may baleen roll over bethoven rock and roll music sweet little 16 johnny be good Back in the usa for more on this we're john by chuck clausterman. He's the author of but what if we're wrong published by blue writer press You write in your book that marching music is only remembered for john philip susan Well, we're more filled that marching music and john philip susan are now synonymous I mean that that talking about john philip susan is like talking about marching music That person has almost become interchangeable with the idiom And there was a time when marching music was very popular and there were a lot of composers of marching music And certainly the average person wouldn't assume that uh, that The only meaningful composer is this one guy, but that's sort of how history tends to work with art You know, it's like you start with a field of many possible candidates And the decades march forward and the candidates fall by the wayside until there's just one individual left And then that individual is amplified and almost becomes more important than they may have been in practice So one has to assume this will also happen to rock music and jazz for example as as time moves on Yeah, jazz eventually jazz will be synonymous with One person it's I think it's very likely that Probably maybe by the time we are very old and maybe just a little period after you mean tomorrow it will eat It will be you know Louis Armstrong or Miles Davis or one of these individuals, you know, it's like That field has already sold this kind of being widowed away. Certainly if we talked We had this conversation 40 years ago The likelihood that ui and anyone listening to this program would probably have a much greater fluency For a high number of jazz artists, you know, if they weren't familiar with the music they'd be able to say, oh, yeah John Coltrane, you know, the names or whatever that's already happening now You see that list of names getting smaller and smaller and smaller And at some point it's just going to be one individual and that person is going to become I mean, I'm not I can't guarantee this lab and it's the future but this seems to be how it works I mean, I think it's very likely within our own lifetime That the relationship between bob marley and reggae will be interchangeable Bob marley will be as famous as reggae music for example When we think of suspense, it's really hitchcock Well, hitchcock is considered to be the most famous and uh, maybe the most influential suspense film director Now does that mean he will likely be the only director of that genre from that period that if you remember specific work by some At this point lesser director emerges as sort of the defining or whatever and then that person gets amplified But yes in all likelihood that that's kind of how it works that I would say already when talking about suspense films from that period Hitchcock probably already plays an outsized role He probably for a lot of people is the only connection they have to that period of film At least in that genre of filmmaking. So that's kind of how it works. It seems that's how it's worked historically Now the advent of the internet could change this It could be impossible now that in the future there are more candidates still existing because we don't need Cannons as much and less to see how these things are less decided by institutions than they once were But I tend to suspect that it will be more true than false That in 500 years if there's a class about the late 20th century And the instructor is talking about rock music as this really important art form This past weekend we lost Chuck Berry and I immediately thought of you I immediately thought of you because I think you killed him No, I immediately thought of you because you have a book out called but what if we're wrong and you were excerpted in the new york times Almost a year ago saying that much like john philip susan There will be one person who will be synonymous with rock and roll And you suggest that one person would be chuck berry who we lost over the weekend Yes Thank you for being on my show. Good night We've been talking with chuck cloisterman and his book is but what if we're wrong it's published by Blue Rider Press and thank you so much for joining us So you're basically saying my you're saying my dingaling and actually you do talk about my dingaling Well, I do because my my argument becomes basically what if What people remember about rock music isn't necessarily a personality so it isn't Dylan it isn't Elvis it isn't the Beatles It's just the quality is a frock. Okay. The quality is rock simple Blue's Bay's music, you know comes from the south invented by a black people person kind of adopted by white people You know very sexual very outlaw all these things these are the things that maybe future Uh individuals will remember about what rock was supposed to be it almost kind of like makes a little suit Very perfectly all of the cliches and caricatures about rock seem to be built on his career Explain that what do you mean? built on his career so I mean everything about him the idea of Of the simplicity of his guitar based music and sort of the way those songs are structured. Okay That is the kind of caricature of a three minute rock song All right with a guitar solo in the middle that he play on If not the first person to do this like the main project of the song is going to be in this How it's going to kind of come so he didn't invent the style but he perfected it Yeah, I mean he didn't write would you know like rocket 88 is usually considered to be the first rock song that people You know Use when they're saying you know the history of rock music and he that's not his material But he certainly mainstreamed this style the favorite performer of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin and all these bands that we now view as You know almost you know doing the the the maximum version of this the the highest profile most readily accessible stuff so that that sort of you know He he entered this into the you know Art lexicon or whatever has to do with the idea of sort of being you know living outside of the law And having a certain degree of perversity about your sexual interest and and and And this is what we see with Chuck Berry This is it's like he did that to a degree that a lot of other artists seem to almost be trying to consciously or unconsciously copy The fact that that you know There was Always like an urban myth quality to rock music. Do we you know we only have these songs? So what do we know about these people only kind of what we tell each other in anecdotes? There are thousands of those with Chuck Berry He almost like the idea of rock is him. Yeah So rock and roll we were told would never die In a way it died when the times caught up to rock and roll It began being degenerate sexual double entendre Outlaw ish The novelty of it died when When the the 60s and the 70s when well probably this okay What's what's significant about rock music is that it is the old or the not the only but was certainly the first art form that was Directly geared toward young people But the whole idea like like the idea of any of this music or any of this imagery There was no intention in the 50s or 60s that this would appeal to people who were parents It was you know specifically going after teenage kids patient gap the likelihood that a kid born in 1955 Like to the same music that his father liked whose father was born you know in 1925 or whatever was almost nil So rock sort of represented the tension of that gap. Well, that doesn't really exist anymore I mean the likelihood of a parent and their kid liking you too or liking Beyonce is very high Now there's a technology group gap. It's not really an age gap probably started to lose Probably in the 80s and 90s when it became less likely that Only a young person could care about this. So rap replaced it because The baby boomers ears couldn't tolerate what their kids were listening to Well, I mean certainly among white audiences Yes, rap music became the dangerous form of music for a 14 year old boy to play That created a sense of alienation among his parents Um, I think the acceleration of culture is going to make the window for that even the smaller I think that that it won't even last as long as rock did but you know, you have to think of you know Why if something's important is important just because it sounds good or looks good or because it represents something else And I think that rock music really did represent something else for a long time I don't know if it does now. In fact, I would argue it doesn't Before I let you go and you've been very generous with your time. We've been talking with chuck closterman He's the author of but what if we're wrong? It's published by blue writer press and we're talking about chuck barry And before you go, I would like you to give me a primer On chuck barry What is essential listening for people like me who Want to gain a fuller appreciation of chuck barry. I kind of took him for granted Until I until I read your piece a year ago until I read your piece a year ago And until a comedy writer named ray james who is obsessed with the guitar I remember his saying about seven years ago to me that it's all chuck barry You you helped me I thank you for Helping me gain an appreciation of chuck barry before we get to that if rock and roll Was moved along by a need in adolescence to push their parents away from their Music to have something of their own and if rap replaces rock and roll as the thing Young people can own for themselves that their parents can't enjoy Did that start with rock? Or has there always been something in the culture that the young people could own And their parents couldn't Okay, well this is complicated, but I'll try to be as fast as I can so it doesn't get boring But you're not believe me. You're you're incapable of that. Oh, that's very nice A big part of this has to do with the actual invention of the teenager Which didn't really happen until after world war two. I mean they're always kids We're 50 because it was because in the 1920s and 1930s and all the time before that There basically was no middle period of life recognized by society You were a kid and then you were an adult when you started working and you got married You became an adult even if that happened when you were 12, which it sometimes did You moved from childhood to adulthood, but then after world war two the way families were changed There was the advent of the cars and kids at their own cars Um, you know television films in the afternoon came to play There was suddenly this belief that there was an in-between stage in life between being a kid and between being an adult And it was that space that sort of rock rock music really Uh began to occupy Um, you know, it's like trying to go back and find a story say from the 19th century about a teenager You will find stories about people who were literally 14 But they're not doing the experiences that we associate with teen life. So that's part of it So like rock and some aspects of television and some aspects of film Those were the first things teenagers could sort of access and use because teenagers weren't really around before Um in terms of you know, like a primer on chuck berry Well, you know, it's albums like the really the Beatles started the idea that these are we have you know Full albums probably the best collection. I think it's called the great 28 That's what it's called. Yes, the great 28. Those are sort of like the the Like is uh Basically of the the music he made I would think, you know, if you want to go on Spotify and find that record That would be the one to find chuck cloisterman is the author of but what if we're wrong? It's published by blue writer press. You've been very generous with your time. Thank you so much, sir You bet. Bye. Bye We're rolling Uh, hello, I'm gonna teach some people in this world how to apologize I'm gonna apologize. Just at least one person. Well, I think a lot of us America don't know how to say they're sorry. Mm-hmm. So especially get the british. Yes We went back in that's eric brandstein, by the way, who is an incredibly funny comic Working the clubs here in new york city. You should follow him on twitter. How do you spell eric brandstein? What is your handle, sir? It's uh at e r i k b r a n s t e e n and your Your tweets are very political. Mm-hmm lately in the last four months. Yeah. Well before trump you were I see your stuff. I'm going. Oh wow And we'll talk about yeah but first i'm going to assume the moral high ground right now with my executive producer alex brazil And resort to some third-grade level verbal gymnastics to Kind of manipulate him into forgiving me and feeling bad that i was 20 minutes late for today's This is the advantage to being 58 and working with a young smart brilliant tasteful I was I was late too. You were yeah. I was a joking with you. Okay, so What I did is I took alex for granted tonight Did you never do that and I took you for granted and I took the studio for granted i've taken Everything he's done for me for granted because I assume he's always going to be there for me, right? So I Gave him lower priority. Okay today. There was other stuff I had to do and I said Are you listening alex? You're turning my mic off. I'm manipulating you right now. Are you really turning my mic off? Oh, okay. I'll talk then So I Placed him second to something That was far less important. Oh far less important than alex brazil And that was a choice I made That was a conscious choice to be late Because what I was doing at the time felt not rationally, but felt more important Than alex brazil who has jumpstarted my career, right? And given me all this Booze yes with a booze broads and blow Jobs so That's what we call cocaine But we call cocaine. That's what we call oral sex. We call oral sex cocaine. So basically we're blowing each other But we call it cocaine I made a conscious decision to put alex second to something that was far trivial far less important than he did So I was wrong now I can The best way for me to show up on time Is for alex to become more important Than the trivial thing that I had to do. Okay I'm using I want to know what this trivial thing was I'm using jujitsu here. I'm like so if I were really if I hadn't been in therapy Since I was 18. Was that where you were to this morning? No, okay I would blame alex right now for being Less important than walking my neighbor's dog, which was what I had to do Wow. Yeah, I walk. I I promised my neighbor I would walk the dog Okay, and I had to do it and I prior I prior it's And I The dog ate my homework. Yeah, I was gonna say no it pooped on my homework So what's the dog's name? Skippy. All right. He answered quickly Well mark price the dog's name is mark price from family ties So if I were not in a constant state of analysis I would blame this would be a good move. This is the wrong thing to do alex the reason I Disrespected you is because you're not as important as skippy and you need to work hard That's if I were a bully and if I were if I were a borderline personality Well, I am I have been late to these tapings And I've also not edited some stand-up that needs to be put out You have not performed stand-up. I performed some stand-up and we're putting it out Oh as as as a a brief little It's gonna wow on this network Should we do it? Yeah, should we give me okay, so You need to always do that too because you're always putting out like new Material in your stand-up. So you have to I know you have to get it out there, you know Well, one of the things that Alex wants me to do and I agree with him is to put out 10 new minutes a month a stand-up And offer it to wherever and we did it It was really funny And there's something very self-destructive going on Because I will not Edit it and Put it out. All right, so it's and I think It might be Uh, I don't know I don't know why I'm not Getting it done Eric you have other things and you've you know important things. Well, they're only dog walking and they're only so many porn hub videos in a day I'm addicted to self-torture. That's a porn hub category, isn't it? So okay, so I'm gonna start with Eric. This is not what you signed up for no I love this but Alex I'm not going to apologize Uh, the only thing I can do is change my behavior You're not apologizing. You're just walking it back as they call it now Right, right. Yeah, you misspoke. Yeah walking it back I have to the only way I can apologize is by showing up on time And changing my behavior And the only way I'm going to show up on time is if you uh Are you in the 12 step program? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Okay, so, uh, sorry doesn't cut it. So Uh, I have to change my behavior. All right, so eric bronze team. Yes I'm it's good to see you. Yeah Last time. I think I saw you was uh when you were doing that, uh roast with Kurt Metzger Were you there? I was there and I was very impressed because that's a formidable opponent right there Now I I need Kurt to come in here. Yeah. Oh, you can get him here. I did a roast battle with Kurt Metzger I am oh for four now. I've lost every roast battle Uh, well, that was the only one I saw and I gotta tell you that was like you guys It was even I think maybe you might have done a little better. I I kind of I Kind of that I want to bring curtain here and relitigate that roast battle because I think the judges had it in for me They you know, he's like a con they all the comics love him So he's going in there where the huge advantage, right? So all he's got to do is just not screw up the jokes. He's probably gonna beat you Right, you know But I also play the heel Right, and I think that turned off The judge is more than a turned off the audience because I told the audience That I that I hired writers for this. Oh, no, you never do that I said there's no way I'm gonna lose because I've got some of the best roast writers in the business writing this stuff I I wanted to be the heel. I thought that would be funny. Yeah You know like pro wrestling. Uh-huh. Yeah, and and I thought the audience Kind of liked that. I thought that was funny to play the guy And so I thought the judges punished me for that But I do think it would be funny because they all do it like everyone I know who does these roast battles. I've helped some people like they all just you know You just need a lot of jokes. Uh-huh. It's very hard to come up Yourself with like 10 really great jokes about one person, you know, like kind of quickly so Have you done the one? I forgot the guy's name and I love him. I have a block on his name. He does What not fight club, what's it called? The roast battle you mean but there's one that's done in a basement like it's a cock fight And he's the commissioner of the roast battles. Is this something in this country? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of have a block on his name. He used to be a wrestler Oh, not the Mick Foley not him. No, it's a different guy. He used to be a wrestler And now he fell in love with the roast battles and he runs a sunday night Fight club in a basement and he's the commissioner. Oh, it's a real fight club It's not a roast battle. It's a it's a roast battle fight. Oh, okay And you know the first rule is you don't talk about this. I'm violating the But he you bet you gamble on it And I it's just a little too late in the evening. I'd like to do it But that would be I never heard of that. Oh, it has like a dirty kind of Robert De Niro Trying to find Christopher walk and then the deer hunter vibe to it It's just really, you know, it's just great Don't you how many roast battles have you done? I I I haven't done any really. No, I don't it's to me It's I'm I was thinking about I was asked a couple times, but I don't know It's just like a lot of work for no pay And it's been very busy lately, but I may I may do it eventually. I need a good target Like I need someone who would be I feel like that I it's easier if you know the person well I feel like it's a lot more work. Like I don't know how well you knew Kurt, but I'm You know him well or no. Yeah. Okay. So that makes it a little easier Sometimes I pair you up with someone you don't even know I rather do it with somebody. I don't know Oh, okay. I think it's just I think it's really interesting. It's the closest I've ever gotten to feeling like a boxer You're walking that ring and the animal spirits are are in In there and they will not I knew I said to kurt Uh before I said I'm not going to hurt your feelings. He says I'm going to hurt yours I Said I I love you kurt. I don't want to hurt you. Well, I love you too, but this is a roast panel Game on well, he's been doing that stuff on tv right now. Like he's like seasoned right now and stuff I mean, I know you write for a lot of these things. So you actually it's a that was a great matchup really It it does Uh There's something purifying about it if you're willing to let Somebody expose your wounds that you think are healed. Right. So it's like the the the secret to it is You know what it is it's being a bully. Yeah, it's it's Everybody has that inner bully. I think the amy schumer stuff you did got to him a little bit slightly Because that that was that I think the stuff that hurt the most to me. I don't even remember it just about how You know, he got in trouble for writing these crazy facebook posts And she kind of fired him but not really but kind of did oh, I yeah, I this was a good joke He had gotten into a car accident And I said it was amazing because he Ran into the very same bus Amy schumer threw him on that's a great joke, right? And I thought I don't know if it worked or not, but I thought well that I should win for that No, that worked and that was when he was like, whoa Like I saw him. It was like that was what got to him a little bit You found his fuck you found his sensitive his Achilles heel right there I was like, I hope he has like five more like that. I think you had one or two more like that Well, I mean he said I said is there anything off limits? He said nobody just do it And and you know if you're a real if you're really There's a certain breed of stand-up that gets off on on taking the hits I get There's I don't like Being bullied. I was I've been bullied. I've been bullied at certain jobs. I don't like bullies. I hate bullies But for some reason on this show And in stand-up and in a roast battle I find it cathartic to be bullied to be Slapped around yeah publicly right To have other people see it happening I guess because then I'm not feeling crazy You see what's going on here. You know the guy's making fun of me. He's making fun of my hair plugs Do you see what's going on here? I'm not sick. They're making so maybe that's why I enjoy it so much But I like to see where those roast battles I feel like the when they do stuff about your looks or something like that I think those are like kind of easier jokes in a way And if you see the roast battles and you find something that someone picks on the other person that really gets to them And looks I don't think really bother comedians too much Because when comedians we just make fun of things all the time I think that it's when they someone makes fun of your act. Maybe that hurts a little bit more What do you what do you think about that? Well, there's morality. There's a morality to comedy Punch up don't punch down, right? However, then there's funny You know gut wrenching funny Unprofessional funny is the funniest Unprofessional funny is the stuff that you can't make a living doing Because no you should not be paid for it. It's immoral So if you work on a television show, there's what's being produced for The network and then there's a show that's being written for the table around the room to completely separate Entities because when you do the uh the smiagal stuff for the for triumph, right? There's just a lot of roast jokes basically. No, well with robert smiagal robert smiagal. There's certain comedians robert is one of them who brings the table To the network right what you see in the writing room Is what you get on the screen and that's Does he ever say like don't talk about this or that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I I I don't want to yeah, well, it's a compliment. Yeah One of the reasons I think triumph It's gonna sound like a okay He doesn't do racist humor Oh, yeah, he does very you know the thing about he's there there are He that that dog has very high standards when it comes to jokes And he won't do cheap shots right You know outside of the fat jokes, but I was just gonna say that I was just gonna say Yeah, I hope that he doesn't stop that because I know that's like the next thing that you can't do These jokes that you know, I know but those are so funny. Well, the rule is and I okay, I'm not talking about smiagal I'm just talking about values The rule is you don't make fun of something that a person cannot change Mm-hmm I suspect I'm not speaking for robert or anybody else For me. This is my feeling about making fat jokes Uh chris christie is fat. Mm-hmm and He the rule is you don't make fun of somebody who can't change something about themselves If you're ignorant as I am You will say Well, you know, you're fat going to die it right that it's not the way it works And so If you're gonna make fun of somebody for being fat, it has to be chris christie. Yeah because He is the embodiment the large embodiment of personal responsibility He's the he's the hypocritical really right. He's the one who says you know Sugar tax just control your taste buds. I mean he is He's a walking a waddling Example of why the republicans are completely full of crap Literally, he's full of crap. So He's fair game. Yeah a An actress a woman That's not you can't do that. You got to stay away from that a little bit but I always to think like in clubs comedy clubs you could do fat jokes because uh Audience members even if they were fat, they don't even so a lot of fat people don't see themselves as fat Like when people do like old jokes You know old some like people who are in their 80s. Sometimes they don't consider themselves old So I always thought that's why those would always work in clubs But now I notice the fat jokes are not working clubs as much anymore people are you know women and rightfully so Have been instructing the comedy community to knock off the fat jokes because It's a form of abuse women their weight fluctuates in order to procreate in order to Create life Their bodies change right all the time and Men make them sick men create Fashion designers comedy writers producers Hollywood the executive boardrooms Donald trump they make women sick by not accepting the seasons of their life and there's something wrong with a guy who does Doesn't see the beauty of a Woman when she's thin or when she's disgusting Come on, Alex Are you awake? He's still mad at you. He's still mad at you. That was funny Come on. Are you still mad at me, Alex? That was you're the weird thing about if trump was just like a normal person He might be getting a lot of fat jokes because he is really overweight It's just so much other stuff. Mm-hmm, but he's like he may be just as overweight as christy I think he's morbidly obese. Yeah, and he's still eating mcdonald's at 70 that can't end well. Good How does that guy have You're not saying that you're you want him dead No, no, but have you noticed that people are just like Like i'm like i'm talking on the phone with people i'm going. Hey, hey, hey You know Knock it off. Have you Knock it off with what? Well, I don't want to say but I've just noticed people hate him so much. Oh, and I go No, you can't talk this way That's knock it off. Right. Well because a lot of people I talk to they're like, oh, I hope he dies or something like that And I can't even say that no and I don't want that to happen because if he dies Whether he gets assassinated or whatever like he becomes an instant martyr He doesn't and then pence will be like lbj and be able to do everything he wants I don't even want him impeached. I just want him completely Like ineffective where like everything he does falls apart and he just can't get anything done I think that's the best thing we can hope for I know i'm maybe in the minority on this But I don't getting rid of him what by impeachment. I don't think that really helps that much I think Torturing him Politically and legally right is good for the country right I think trolling him me mean and I think anybody anything you do to You know Throw yourself on the gears of his machinery to slow it down Benefits the country So the best thing that can happen for the country is It just grinds to a halt right like what they try to do to obama, you know, yeah, so just do the same thing They they believe in limited government So they say but now we see we see the budget Now what you do is you spend the next four years Developing a grand game inch by inch and hurting him Intellectually just make him powerless, you know, but I don't know it's people are just because if he if he gets impeached It's not like hillary is going to come in it's going to be pens and it's probably going to be worse Because he's kind of a better communicator in certain ways. Well, let me ask you about of the The ryan republican health care plan which seems to be dying I don't know it could use some obama care. I forgot to sign up for obama so Alex just woke up. Yeah, god, that's it That's it. I'm in so much trouble with him You are he's a right-hand man. You got it. You got it. Where would I be? I I don't know he and you know what he doesn't need me. The problem is he's got so many other He's got he's got a lot of projects going on. Have you listened to the karson podcast? What johnny karson they're mark malcoff here at show bra's studio Talks with his guests about the legendary talk show host johnny karson. Wow, that's an entire podcast. It's a niche podcast I could totally see that that show bra's studios has going out of these studios and They get all the big names Joel gray michael fox michael j fox It's any stand-up comic who debuted on the tonight show with johnny karson people who worked on the karson show The top entertainers And so if you're a fan of johnny karson as we all were he Taught everybody had to do this properly You should listen to mark malcoff. He hosts the karson podcast and it's one of the many podcasts that comes out of show bra's studios that Are making me less and less important to alex I kind of want to listen to that one right now. I know it's great mark malcoff. I mean Mark malcoff is incredible. Have you met him? I think once maybe yeah So you were saying about the uh obama care that Yeah, I mean what would we talk about? Yeah, I mean Do you see what i'm doing alex Paul ryan is just uh, can we we can curse on this, right? I rather you're not okay. Paul ryan is just what's your fucking He's a prick. He's just the worst man How I mean like he just doesn't give a crap about anything He just what he has this thing in his mind that he wants this You know limited government and he doesn't care. He just doesn't care. I mean I just think this is he's taking trump down with him because trump doesn't know anything about health care Anything and I think he's just gonna I mean that that may be a good sign if they do pass this and it's a disaster Maybe that'll really hurt trump because there are people going to blame trump for this in the end. What do you think? I think the vitriol That we feel towards the other side is A function of attorneys Taking over our government That's the problem Is he a lawyer? No, he uh knows where i'm going with this You really can't be president or a senator unless you're a A lawyer or in trump's case a felon, but that's kind of like being a lawyer Is ryan was he's a lawyer who paul ryan was he a lawyer? I he's a liar I don't know. I don't know if paul ryan is a lawyer. I would assume he is Just how does this guy who just went real quick he gets he has so much power as a speaker of the house, right? He's the third most powerful person He represents a district. I actually looked this up with like Maybe 500,000 people and only like half of them voted for him And he's like the third most powerful person in this country, right? It just seems like the whole system that how I actually that's kind of nice You think so? Well If we were if it was pure it would be nice It's how he rises to the top, right and the way he rises to the top is he's being bankrolled by The coke brothers. He's being bankrolled by the 40 richest families In the world, right and then he disperses money to The republican congressman That's and that's how he gets bills passed by He has his own little fund, right and he says Eric brownstein here, you know, I like I like you. You're you're gonna rise in this party. Here's $500,000 for next year's campaign Why do the coke brothers even care about this anymore? That's what I was thinking about the other day I mean, they're billion billionaires. They're they're older Like if you were that age and you were also a billionaire, your first thing was like, oh, I want to end social security That would be mine. Yeah Why I'm david coke. Yeah I can't get it up Unless a hooker is putting a hot branding iron up my anus and those are she mail hookers and they're she mail hookers I'm david coke I have all this money And yet my penis isn't any So if I'm gonna be miserable I want the entire world to be miserable. Why should anybody be happy if I david coke can't be happy Good point So yes, they do want to destroy so it's a small penis thing. Well, everything's a small penis thing I think that's why women are so miserable Men men have small penises not because they I was gonna go they have Women have small well, there are things it's a technically kind of a really small penis or But you know the women never I did an interview with the woman who wrote hooking up About college campus sex her name is professor leslie wade. She's with occidental college and she said That a lot of women when they leave for college didn't know that they had a clitoris What now could you believe that They just didn't know it existed. They did not know that they had a clitoris I could see that You mean so so they'd never really like masturbated beforehand. Well, I think I think I think women are becoming like men In that they too can't find the clitoris No, I think that How can you not find if you if you had a clitoris? You would think you'd rub against something accidentally Yeah, you know I mean, that's how you discover your penis when you're a little kid, right? Yeah, like rub against something and then you're like Yeah, uncle murray All right now the whole picture comes together now, so if you want to uh I like how we went from ryan to clitoris is in like 30 seconds. Well, yeah, because he's a small Hooded flap flap He's a piss flap is what he is What what were we talking about? I was just thinking about women riding horses. Oh, they discovered it Yeah, this they discovered their clitoris. They they yeah, so But what did that have to do with the budget? David coke. Oh, yeah, he has a small penis. It's like a clitoris blah blah blah Right and we're doing oh what makes people hateful. So I was saying What small penises and I said that's what makes women hateful. They have small penises, right? Yeah, I think when you meet The republicans They smell bad. Mm-hmm. They really do like literally, but yeah, they're rotting. There's something bilious about them and What's the biggest republican you ever met? I rather not say oh, okay, but they're they are pretty disgusting people and Uh, and they project their own Disgust onto other they automatically assume That everybody is as hateful as they are right So that's what you're up against I mean in order to Win against the republicans the only way to beat the republicans is for the democrats to go to the dsm Look up what they're suffering from which is an incurable borderline personality and The kryptonite for republicans is Governing Yeah Yes, yeah Actually, it's ridicule. Mm-hmm, which is why they ridicule our side. They You go to the dsm and you can diagnose a died in the world republican The only way To win and marco rubio got that. Mm-hmm with trump Marco rubio is not an idiot Is you ridicule them because that's how they operate and and that's why trump is He he has shown the republican hand and that's been a gift to america He has shown us what a republican truly is that is What he is Donald trump is the end Game for the republican party that is what he was then he was an inevitability Right because he's basically like just romney will put a nice face on But he's really like the id, you know just coming out and yeah, that's a very good point, you know stupidity merged with greed And carelessness. Mm-hmm. That's what the republican party is and incompetence. That's going to be the big thing Yeah, these guys can never govern they never They I mean think about people don't remember how bad things were at the end of bush. I mean everything was falling apart I don't understand. It's like eight years people completely forget and somehow they blame it all on obama who wasn't even president Uh, yeah, whatever how much do you feel? You're being manipulated by all this like do you think there's a An invisible hand and like uncle murray Do you think there's an invisible hand who's Yeah, I think there are about 40 families 40 invisible hands Doing all this the illuminati I don't think it's an illuminati. I just think it's I think it's various hands competing against each other Okay And they're some of them are in the democratic party and some of them in the republican party But in the end it's when we talk about washington dc In the end it's about money and power. Yeah, and people vying for it Is that a fair statement? Yeah, I would say so. I mean You're just talking about like billionaires and stuff like coke brothers. Yeah. Yeah Yeah I mean when you talk like that a lot people are You know people bring it the break they bring up george soros and stuff like that But when you talk like that people think you're automatically like a conspiracy nut But I think when it comes to that I don't think that's the case. I really think that you're right on that I think it's I think washington Is the arena where People who have lots of power and money are trying to take other people's power and money Away from each other. It's like the rose battles. It really is and So and it becomes a game and has nothing to do with serving the people if washington dc is a construct Short of paying your taxes. Can you ignore what's going on in washington dc live in america? And have a calm tranquil life a friend of mine is in his 80s now And he said, you know once trump got elected He just turned everything off. I know a lot of people doing that. Yeah, because it's just it's we're off I mean, I kind of watching msnbc all day. I want to lose my mind by the end of the day I mean, can you be immune to this and just view it as a As a construct and just say okay, this is just a show that's on television. I'm not mexican. I'm not arab I live On a hill This will pass in 20 years. Can you do that? I think a lot of I don't know if it's moral. I just think people do it, you know I mean I just some people just aren't not interested in politics anyway or some people just think oh everything will turn out Okay, right. I think that's what people that's the most people think everything will turn out Okay, in the end something good will happen and that's probably the worst way to feel You know because I think people a lot people thought of that about trump. It's like yeah, he won't be that bad you'll see you know and uh We're gonna wrap it up. You'll stick around. Yeah, okay Um kevin avry is coming up, but let me let me before we go to the break I think we have to stop calling it politics Somebody said to me you're really into politics and I said Not really. I'm into policy and government and history and Paul ryan isn't politics. That's only an aspect of it. He said ass ass pecked of What's going on in washington washington dc is policy? It's and that's Part of that is politics, but part of it is governing right I think we have to start saying i'm into governing How we govern each other, but no one cares how you govern they just want your their guy to win really well politics Is has a nasty flavor to it now. Oh, that's just politics. Yeah I think we either Give value to the word politics or say This is we're talking about governing here. There's there's a time for politics and then there's a time for governing Instead we have a permanent campaign now in dc as opposed to governing. So I think we have to Change that when we come back We'll talk more with eric and we'll be joined by stand-up comedian and award-winning writer for HBO's last week tonight with john oliver Mr. Kevin avery Eric brand scene is here and i'm about to introduce kevin avery in a moment. I just Want to tell everybody that this is going to be the best show That we've ever done Not because kevin avery is here, but that's partly why a lot of pressure Maybe because eric is here probably that's weird. Yeah. Yes. Yeah But my back is against the wall kevin avery um Literally You've set yourself up This is going to be the best show. So yeah, your back is against the damn wall. Uh-huh, but it really is against the wall It's against the wall for many reasons. One is i'm in a lot of trouble. Okay with alex brazil Yeah, what the hell? I was late. I showed up 20 minutes late. I was afraid. I was going to be late I was around the corner where fudge is made. Yeah and uh By the way, you haven't done the show before that that is the most sophisticated thing. I know you won all these beauts I hit my sweet spot Um that by the way, that's the gift of being in your 50s Yeah, is you can do a milk milk lemonade joke and suddenly it becomes funny Well, you're not wrong. I was at a coffee shop So the two cups fudge definitely being made So we'll get back to you Few hours Lord willing Yeah, I was I was around the corner. I was just working on some stuff and uh And I did that thing where I'm like, oh, I'm fine because it's right around the end and I looked up I was like, holy shit. And I was racing to you know took no time. So I don't I Now I don't feel as bad. May I introduce you? Oh, yeah To jesus. This is a book. I want you to all right. No, let me introduce you because believe it or not There might be some people on this planet Who don't know who you are. I believe it. I believe that's it Kevin Avery is a stand-up comedian and writer He just finished up working on the highly critically acclaimed award-winning hbo's last week tonight with john oliver You were the head writer on the critique critique. I have trouble saying critically Critically acclaimed in short lived. What does that mean? Sure. Well, it was around for like two seasons. Yeah, why it wasn't short lived long enough It lived long enough as paul ryan says to people who need health insurance Uh, totally biased with w kamau bell. Yep. Oh You've also written on vh1's best week ever And you also co-host the popular podcast Denzel washington is the greatest actor of all time period period Which is part of the ear wolf network We have a history together. We do We go way back We both started in san francisco that is correct We didn't uh Work together. Did we ever work together? We I think we worked together We did one week at the punchline together. I think in san francisco We'll talk about that. I have questions to ask you. Okay Your high energy brand of stand-up has been called rare and magical As a sparkle unicorn doing west side story choreography under a liquid light show That's what the sf weekly. Yes one. Yeah Somebody said that Yeah So you open for me at the punchline. I believe I did do you mind eric if I just ask him a couple of questions? No, I'm I'm listening because I'm interested about the san francisco comedy. I don't know much about it I know there used to be a place called the purple onion. Yes. That was a big place, but that's all it's now doc's lab or something Yeah, I think they changed it. I don't I don't know You know, let's talk about I'm on a bit of a narcissistic binge right there. Okay I know that I sense it because so I apologize. I don't know But let's talk about san francisco and what it was like to open for me. And this is what I'm going to assume. Okay. All right I never watch The opening acts. Mm-hmm I just don't yeah Because I'm threatened by them Really? Yeah, it's not just I don't I think a lot of comics Well, some will try to watch but then I think it's 50 50 like sometimes I don't feel like watching Everybody you know what I'm saying like but you felt threatened you genuinely Well, if the opener is like killing then it can kind of get in your head a little bit because then you're like I have to follow that so Yeah, but sometimes I think you need to watch some of it to sort of Feel the energy of the I know what you mean like it's sort of yeah, you don't want to get in your head too much but I feel like sometimes Uh, you need to sort of Know what's I don't know. It's hard to explain but you know what I'm saying like no, you're right You need to fill it out a little bit. You need to sit there and just be like, okay Okay, and then you know, I'm saying if you're a good comic and a real man And then you watch right then you watch the the guy going on before you but if you're a tiny little frightened Howard You stay in the dressing room at the punchline. Okay doing coke or I you know or doing this which is really annoying The crossword puzzle With your reading glasses and then they knock on your door Sure He's got five minutes left. Oh, okay. Okay. Let me just turn off the Brahms Go out then very rock and roll of you. Yeah That could be the most comfortable That green room before say maybe 20 30 minutes before you have to go on Can be super comfortable when you're just in there No one's bugging you You're doing your crossword or reading your book or doing whatever the hell you want to do that Sometimes that's just pure serenity Have you ever taken a nap inside the dressing room at the punchline? Holy shit It's the most delicious place to nap. It is. Well, they got a sofa or so. Yeah. Yeah, they have a sofa I think they have two sofas in somehow they crammed two sofas in there They've redone it. It's actually it's very it's much nicer now still small as hell But cozy and I remember I was I used to to I think a lot of people ended up doing this but Open for Dave Chappelle a lot when he would come through town And he would go just on and on and on and on and uh I remember once or twice Just because it's usually just a two-man show with him Introducing him watching for a little bit and then just going to the green room And just you know catching some z's and waking up and he's still not done He'll go on for like two hours like he'll go on for three one time I heard he what he went on at like 11 At night maybe midnight It was somehow outrageous shit And when people finally when the staff left the club the sun was coming up the shit you're not wow Right, wasn't he have going for that record him and dane cope. They were going back. Yeah Yeah, they yeah, they were kind of doing that for a little bit and that's exhausting I get it. I mean I get why he does that Well, he can he can And I think he's a guy that just loves to mine anything for For material. Yeah, and and see what's in here and just kind of shake it out and what else is there I mean what's left is reality. It's other people who are going to hurt your feelings. Yeah And he could be funny just kind of just yeah talking yapping. Yeah, but he can also be completely captivating Not being funny. Yeah, not having a like he is a guy who's definitely not afraid of silence Right and and I think that that's a hard thing to get over When you're a comic and I know I had a hard time Doing that just being comfortable Sort of talking and like working, you know, like Eric and I were saying earlier I I've because I don't you know, when I was writing on Last week tonight and even on like totally biased I didn't have time to to write material as often as I wanted to so I did a lot more writing on stage But you have to be comfortable just sort of going. Let me try let me talk about this And just kind of right and you just have to be okay with people staring at you going what the hell is this? Are we going somewhere? You know two questions one one Sleeping while Dave Chappelle is on stage. Yeah. Yes. I have two questions one is Does that remind you of being a child? When your parents were having a party I'm being serious And you would fall asleep and everybody was having a good time and all I mean, I have found that like Falling asleep while another comic is on And my audience knows what I'm talking about because they fall asleep all the time I guess what I'm saying is if you want to recapture your childhood of your parents having a party People Drinking and laughing come see me perform and take a nap Take a nap, but you got to be in another room go be an audience could cram into the green room Then and sit that would be like at that childhood reliving. Okay, Dave Chappelle. Yes um, you revealed something about yourself that I find very endearing and That that I'm guilty of and that is Would you agree that Dave Chappelle? is One of the best comics whoever did it. Yes. Is that that's a fact. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, no doubt no doubt So you are opening for one of the greatest conferences ever done it. Yeah It is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Mm-hmm. You are passing through eventually you're going to be a headliner And you're not going to be able to study Dave Chappelle. Yes But like David Feldman You chose To go into the dressing room and take a nap Look It had been a long day And uh, no, I mean the fact is um, I have been incredibly fortunate as a comedian and You know coming up Dave Chappelle was you know, uh outside of the the the The granddaddy icons your your priors and flip wilson and and cosby and you know, uh Chappelle was to me the greatest. He was my favorite comedian and so I I had worked with him many many times at that point And I weirdly I remember at one point going holy shit I think I've known him for like 10 years now at this point Not that he knew me all the time where we were hanging out, you know or anything like that, but I had frankly gotten a little uh I don't know spoiled the word but just kind of like It had become a regular thing and I I couldn't be luckier to be you know, if you were told Uh, 10 year old or 12 year old kevin. Yeah one day you're gonna just be working with that guy It'll be commonplace and you know that my head would have exploded You know if you had told me a lot of shit that's that I've been fortunate sort of have happened Uh, people I've gotten to work with, you know, oh, it's you know, this is just a little podcast If I open for Dave Chappelle and like you had a good set obviously beforehand Uh, yeah That's a struggle sometimes it's hit or miss because they just want to see him and you're kind of in the wet Because I was just saying like if you felt good about your set Then like you wouldn't even want to watch him because you'd be like, oh, I'm great and then you'd watch him You're like, oh wait, you know, well, no, I mean I I I generally wanted to watch him and especially first starting out working with us like, of course, I'm gonna watch But after a while it had become a thing where he was I was like this guy's gonna go on forever And I don't and I would watch a little bit But then at some point I'd be like I think I'm gonna go in the room and just kind of chill And it was late. It was you know, we're talking like then did you you didn't open for him? No, no, I'm just saying that like sometimes I've gone before like an amazing comedian and I'll have a great set And I'm like, oh, I'm awesome. And then I'll see this other next level person and I'm like, oh, yeah See I opened for Dave And he's he won't talk to me anymore because of what happened. I opened for him This is a true story. I opened for Dave Chappelle at the shoreline amphitheater five years ago And I killed Okay And I get off stage and I feeling good feeling good. I said follow that M. Effer I hand him the mic Good natured. You know good natured. Yes. Yeah, he goes out. That's a classic. Yeah. That was joking He was teasing him, but he thought it was like, oh, I'll show Feldman So he goes out there and Takes it He starts getting laughs like big laughs and I snapped and I ran out onto the stage And I called the audience whores You'll laugh at you. You were with me two minutes ago I go downstairs to get a cup of coffee. I come upstairs and you're laughing at this guy now You're you're a slut and you're a it's an entire audience of whores I cannot trust you and I and he stopped talking to me. You're not wrong. No, that's what the why first of all Why doesn't that happen more often? Wait a minute I was with you for 30 minutes I mean, why doesn't that why don't we hear about that story all the time my best friend My bet you're doing you're laughing at my best friend You do that on shows. You're not even on Of comedians are so damn insecure that should be happening like once a week All across the country Guys flying in just I was here last week and you're laughing at this a hole Who the hell do you think? Yeah, I'm out of here being dragged out by security But there is that little part of you by the way, that's not a true story I but At one point it I was I realized it wasn't but I was like, oh god. I really wish this Shoreline it but you imagine that would have you found lying it's so good that I almost I leave them halfway through all the time Well, I there was a point where I was like, I don't know whether I this is a it's a bit Have you found lying? It has gotten so easy. It's hard now In other words like what I just it's a suck in other words. I had Todd glass on the show last week So I like to Sucker you I like to pull you in I like to lie with the and then the reveal is that I was joking I have noticed that I get especially since trump has become president It's a hard night to follow. You can sit number. You can say anything and people go. Yeah, okay I mean we are living in this reality I mean it used to be that to be a really good liar you had to really sort of be able to immerse yourself in whatever reality You were talking about but now We're all kind of living in some in this insane reality. So we're already there You're telling me this story about how you went on staging yelled at the audience during Dave Chappelle said and I'm like Yeah, no, I think I saw something like that happen Did I did I imagine that or What's the worst experience you've had on stage where you completely the work like we're As bad as yelling at the audience For me or I mean, I don't think I've had any like crazy. Well, yes I uh, I was playing uh, I was opening for cat Williams. Wow At Tommy tees. Wow This is I hang on. Hang on. Let's paint this picture. Tommy tees in in conquered conquer the uh, yes the Cadillac ranch Tommy remember the the country western bar. Okay. And so what year was this was this one? This was this would have been Oh five. So he was kitten. Williams. He was yeah He was not well. He called him little meow meow But he was now see do you he was You know, he he's originally I guess he started in st. Louis, but he was in oakland for a while. Do you remember he was cat in the hat and I used to Go do every once in a while. I would do this place the end zone in oakland and he would be there and he you know And then he moved to la and he there was an end zone. There was an end zone in san francisco But it wasn't a comedy club Well done that's off to you, sir Um But but so it's obviously yeah, this was Tommy tees Cat Williams had just sort of arched over and started to become this huge comedic star All four shows sold out two friday two saturday And uh, I got booked on it sort of last minute and uh, you know, I have never Been the best in front of like an all blackout in front of a I won't even say that in front of a deaf jam type of audience and and that certainly was Uh, at least at that time. I think cat's audience the the deaf jam crowd not black But deaf jam right and so uh, and so I was like, you know, I'm gonna do this I'm gonna I'm just gonna man up come out and I used to sort of challenge each other play these oakland rooms Man and do this and you know, um because it's easy to just live in your little san francisco world and you know And so, uh, I've got a lot of questions to ask you about that. Go ahead. Uh, so First show It's uh, it goes okay You know just all right one of those that's like there, you know, um second show Uh, not as good kind of eat a little bit more. Maybe even some booze I already left, you know Bad enough so that the next day I Was I just did not want to go back and I remember spending the whole day At the at the metri on at the movies and then like sitting in a bar and then going back to the movie Like I was just good. I did not want to go and finally I get to this gig Do the first show That goes fine Pretty good. Come people. Hey man, you were funny and how many people in the audience? How um, uh, probably 250 maybe they they were trying to they squeezed them in there So i'm like, all right one more show. I can do this. This will be fine Of course it starts late Crowd crazy restless. There's every type of hat in there you can imagine Was it a church? It's like they all went from church And so so they all headed over there and um And I go up now the opener Uh He had every he did one of those things that I sort of unspoken The the The host of the show you don't I don't care how bad the previous comic though unless they just really take a Just do something egregious that you have to acknowledge. You don't berate the comic Who just got off stage. Oh, you're you're actually God bless you. You're actually answering a question that I had asked Oh Yeah I'm like I'm riveting and they go oh, let's answer a question. Oh, good. Go ahead. So so this guy comes up and and Just a little quick, you know, he's talking smack like I walked off stage one day You know that and then one time he was like, oh, y'all y'all want some money back? Like, you know, just weird silly crap Super nice to me But when the when the weekend began came up to me. Oh man, I'm glad I got to work with you and Oh, cool, you know, and I had met him before and then he turns into this guy passive aggressive. Yeah Is something but he just you know, so Yeah, that's final show I go up on stage and I'm doing okay. First couple of jokes fine third joke. Well, not as good by the time four or five jokes in And The one of the worst ways you can eat it is you know People just stop listening and you start talking. Yeah, and there's more talking. Could you fill out the menu for lunch? They have a vegan I ordered the roast beef. Yeah. Okay. Good. So guys, what do you say? What I'm trying to say is in my list I can't No, uh, what I I'm just trying to be heard if I could just But but yeah, that's it in that murmur gets louder and louder and louder and by the time I was 20 minutes at 25 minutes. It was yeah 20 25 minutes. How long did it feel? Uh, I thought I'd been up there for three days Like I felt like oh, I'm starving. This is weird Um, and I was cold but um, but I What happens is this is where it just turns into the nightmare It gets so loud and then everyone realizes. Wow, what's loud in here? We're all talking. Oh my god. Nobody's listening to this guy and then they're all watching you eat it That's when that's when it gets weird is when the talking stops and the attention just focuses on you That's it's showtime. That's when it becomes a show and and I'm just I like, you know, kind of thirsty and Oh boy, and I'm but I'm still just doing it and uh, and people are are the heckles are starting to come And and I'd had it and I finally said, you know what? I hate you as much as you hate me, but um, I gotta do my time and I'm still gonna get paid So boo all you want but the saint the apollo well and man, it was just like Just a tour de boo's coming at me a couple of people threw balled up napkins at me Just there was one table of these these little like these like 20 21-year-old white kids sitting in the front Who had never seen anything like oh my god, it's a mutant like they They were just all in like they'd gotten their money's worth. It's better than amazement The only people clapping like go ahead Good luck to you And and I just stood up there Drinking my bottled water just kind of waiting and finally the host I just feel a tap on my shoulder and the host is there and he's like, yeah Just come on and he just pulled me off stage And I walked off the only saving grace for that night Larry bubbles brown was having to be standing there. He was gonna do Yes And I literally as I walked away, he was like, well, I don't want to go up The best thing He won't cut alex I keep trying to get larry to come on the show Bubs, I don't Bubs get on the show bobs. I used to every night. I couldn't go to bed unless I checked in with bubs So let me ask you a way to bomb though That was and then they had to lead me out like I was standing there next to him And then I looked up in two security guards were like we need you to We need to we need you to come with us And they had to take me through this it's because there are people sitting there and then there are where the pool tables are There's a massive crowd standing there watching the show as well So they had to kind of escort me out through this crowd of like It was like, uh, you know, when uh I felt like a prisoner being escort Like liarby oswald being led through You know Like jack ruby was gonna pop out of like trying to shoot me, you know Like the kid or the cubs remember that cubs playoff game the kid who caught the ball He had to be escorted Yeah And they used they feel I think they should put him in a different outfit too Because they made him look like he worked there or something like they could have any other time they would have said Oh the manager, you know, he was just gonna talk to me like what happened and they gave him, you know Give me my check but the two security guards. Wow. And as I walked down. I remember there were people just like You know just whatever I have a question. I want to ask awesome stuff. I want to ask it is and I want to ask you about that But I have to tell you I used to be best friends with jeff garland before he was And he just got too busy and too successful I'm in new york, he's in l.a. But at the time we talked a lot and he was just breaking through on kerb, but wasn't Kerby enthusiast wasn't now one of the things about jeff garland You bring up the chicago cubs. He's a cubs fan, right big cubs fan And his gift is you go to a baseball game with jeff garland and he's got a loud Booming voice. Yeah, and he will scream as long as it's not a curse word or you know an epithet He will scream Anything at the top of his lungs Right You know so you could say uh because everybody's screaming at a baseball game and you would say uh scream Charlie's throne Has seven fingers on her left hand and he would scream I can't do you know, whatever you want or uh throw the baby out with a bathwater Come on throw a stupid baseball. So we'd make up. Yeah. Yeah, okay So I wasn't there, but this is a true story About being escorted out. Okay And it's jeff's story and he doesn't remember it There is a beach ball During the seventh inning stretch of the dodgers game and they pass the ball around and it's accompanied by music They the you hear as the ball goes up and then it lands and they do they do sound effects to the beach ball as it's Bad it around and the ball flies all over the stadium And it's a it's saturday and every it's just packed And jeff is sitting behind home plate. Okay, and the beach ball comes to him and instead of batting the beach ball He grabs it And starts strangling it And then and then the sound effect guy goes going And once he realizes and now he's on the big screen the jumbo tron And he can't pop the beach ball Yeah, and he's just he is just You know trying to Strangle it and finally The audience the audience the baseball is booing And it's the both players teams from the dugouts now come out To see jeff garland that is strangling the beach ball and it won't Pop and everybody's watching and booing him And he's a comedian. So he's got all the attention and he finally I think at the time phones had an antenna Or something on his phone that he whipped at and he popped the beach ball And an entire Dodger stadium booed him They booed him right Although he says a couple of people applauded when he finally Thank you He heard there were a couple of people who were impressed that he popped the beach ball and he got you know And only a comic would know No, I had that one guy I had him So it's over he sits down And he starts orders a hot dogs and peanuts a beer he's going to watch the rest You know second to last two innings And People start throwing stuff at him And he goes they wouldn't let it go. Who's a beach ball? What's the big deal? I I popped a beach ball. What's the big deal? And people you know, they would not and so they're throwing crap at him and finally a guy in a red Blazer taps him on the shoulder with secure. Excuse me. You have to come with us for your safety, sir For your safety sir. Wow. I I swear to god. This is true. I swear to god. Hang on for one second So he's walking up the steps and people are booing him and throwing stuff at him And he's not too happy now You know, he's reality has sunk in And just as he's leaving The the open air part of the stadium to go Towards the concession stand this little kid Grabs him by the shirt And says, hey mister. I really like you and curb your enthusiasm my parents and I watch it. You're great It was like that mean joe green Oh my god, and he said he said that's what got him to the car And that one kid and he said to me, you know what? You can be hated by 75,000 people. Yeah, but if one person gets you, it's worth it. There you go That's what that's what those kids were right in the front row just clapping in this guy's going down 30 bucks, well worth it Yeah, now I think comedians How long are you? I think we're very spiritual people Versus comedy writers. Uh, yeah Yeah, is that a fair statement? I can say that about myself. Yeah. Yeah the adjustment That I have struggled with going back and forth between stand-up and a comedy writing room is stand-ups do a lot of work on themselves And reach a certain point where they're a bodice feast bodice fiesta. How is it pronounced where you're For example, how many years into comedy were you when that happened? Maybe Eight or nine. Oh, that's your one, but you're spiritually stunted That's it for me Why I sound like you were more experienced because you took that bombing like a man No, I think you know, I think you failed the comedy gods There are comedy gods kevin avery and I think you Is that why they haven't gotten back to me? On any of my comedy prayers Well, you have you have to serve the comedy gods and you weren't serving them that night. Um, I mean I felt here's The thing I remember feeling when I left was proud I remember feeling pride. So you were serving yourself and I was serving myself. I um bad Oh, I did I did flip the audience off Oh, you you so I really kind of You know, I didn't I didn't maintain the The the professional poise I'll say I I just was not going to get off stage Until someone dragged me off as sure enough they did um, but uh, I I knew look I'm gonna do this no matter what and um, I'm just gonna take it And I and I walked out thinking I don't ever have to prove anything to myself again So I'm kind of done doing that. Oh you you are You You defiled The heaven I must end the universe. It's like it's your fault. I walked into it. I crapped on the altar. Yeah You know, uh, and I drove away. I remember driving home laughing. Oh, you were evil. I was you were shaking That a bad man. I was like I did it. I got through it And that was that It was a horrible experience Before malkin gladwell talked about 10 000 hours. There's a comedian named will durst Yes, who we just had on the show last week and he sat me down as a child even though we're the same age And uh, but I like to sit like a child and he said to me here. Here are the rules to stand up You don't get funny Until four years in yeah six years in You know, you're funny And it takes 10 years For you to let the world know that you're funny and he says that you can't change it. He said you can get Plucked by somebody in hollywood and given a sitcom and then you go out on the road because they know you from the sitcom But you'll in terms of your development as a comedian It it won't change. Yeah, I agree and I think the the big Awakening that every great comic gets is You go on stage. You're being heckled. It's not going well And you're zen And you you Just accept it. You're in the moment And you're saying this is the situation It's nobody's fault. Yeah, let's Stay totally focused on this Ocean of people that I can't stick my toe in two twice. Yeah Let's see what I can do here But that takes about 10 years to get get to that point. Yeah, um, I mean I was I was about there. Yeah, I guess, you know, it's yeah, that was but you were serving yourself Yes, well, I mean my goal was to get through it Right, so I guess that is that you weren't servicing the audience No, I had at that point abandoned any hope of Yeah, of entertaining them and I it was about now But now if you were in the same position, how would you approach it? You would turn down the gig. Yeah, I would never do it at first I'd be like I know putting you in the same situation. You're now you're now kevin avry successful comedian comedy writer You You know before you go on that you'll be okay Yeah, you approach it um, I think I think before like as the as it was starting to turn I would have Started maneuvering differently. I don't think I would have just said Here it comes. Let the Let the purge me again I don't think I would have done that because I think I just I just kept going through it and you know, but I think um I think this time I You know evasive maneuvers and you do what you got to do um now The other reality is that if I'm being a hundred percent honest with myself That just might be my achilles heel and I will always be in my head performing for that audience What do you mean performing for like a deaf jam craft, you know performing for cats audience So you were bringing something To that audience. I already brought yeah, they didn't deserve Uh, yeah, that's fair to say That's fair to say I mean based on my own personal experience and and and what I and my own insecurities and fears as a comedian at the time I definitely was like I I didn't just accept the gig like yeah, sure. What's um, I you know, right? I accepted it knowing All right, this could be a tough one, but you know what? You you know how to do this right go in there and just do your thing and and be who you are and I was I was still actually trying to teach myself how to go on stage and Take command of of any situation right and that's where I was at at that point and that was yeah, that was probably It might have been 10 years in but I think it was nine because I think I started in like You know 97 Okay, so let me get so yeah, that would have definitely been like eight I want to get back to what it was like to open for me. That was my first But I want to point I want to just And I was deaf jam crowds too, right? Yes, I do. Oh another deaf And they're sitting in their own jam I play nursing homes basically so I want to ask you about Oakland and San Francisco I want to ask you what it was like opening for the great david feldman. I hear he's very nice to his opening acts But I want to just get back to Why I bomb what happens to me. Yeah still And alex is seamless I get Uh nervous And when I get nervous I can end up watching the act that's coming on before me And I'll blame him. I haven't even been on stage. I have not been on stage yet. This is when I bomb And I see the opening act And he's killing And he's saying the f word Doing jokes that you don't do so then you think the audience likes that kind of stuff. Yeah doing jokes that I think are hacky And this is how I bomb. This is what I'm not right, but this is what I'm thinking. This is the as they say stink think Or I call them brain farts Oh He's poisoned the room. Yep. This is so they're they like this and they're not going to like me Why am I still I've been doing it this long. Why do I have to follow an act like this? Why are there no standards in this business? Yeah, why do I have to be put through this? Is this what it's going to be for the rest of my life ladies and gentlemen david feldman How you asshole god I fire a new mother and and you already hate that audience before you go on because you They laughed at the other guys. Yeah. Yeah, because they're horrors now. You don't like anybody in the room and myself. Yes, and myself And so I can't focus on what's in front of me because I keep thinking about the past I will not I bring you cannot bring the past On stage. That's why that gets back to why I never when I became a headliner and it took me a long time to become a headliner Which is why I was a great headliner. I was an I never was a middle act I was a I was an mc. Oh, wow and nobody would move me To middle and I just said all right really and will durst said to me Will Durst god he gave me a lot of great advice He said Barry her head So her head is sticking at not the feet because the head will decompose quick. No He gave me great advice. Do I need to call the He said I said will I've been an mc for six years. It doesn't end. They will not bump me up to get pigeon holding that Yeah, he said buddy, you're only going to be an mc once in your life That's it. Then you get bumped up to middle. Then you get bumped up to headliner and It's just enjoy being an mc get into it Get totally into being an mc because will was will was held back He didn't move as quickly as he thought he and he said just get into being an mc and become the best mc You possibly can't do time After the the middle act Can you do time? How do you do when the when you do time? Oh, they hate me by then They just want to see the headlining and he said change that. Yeah change that Think about the time between the middle act And the headliner and ask yourself why is the audience sick of you by then? Change that Think of your think of your opening Act when you're the opener the mc you're like opening for yourself open for your exactly Can you keep that audience on your side after the middle act? He said then you'll become the greatest headliner Yep You can handle any situation and there was a time before you were born when I was a really great headliner because I could handle the check drop I can just because it's the 10 000 hours That being said Once I became a headliner And it took me 10 years to become a headliner I decided That when I'm on stage, there's no history There's no past. Yeah So I'm not going to watch the opening act and then somebody said to me Well, suppose he does similar material I said well I do jokes about eating people and You know The homeless I don't think anybody is going to Do my yeah, if somebody's doing my jokes or my material Then it's a bad booking You know that yeah, and so I'm just and so I purposely did and I wrote an act so I wouldn't have to watch The guys who came before me. Yeah So what was I like? Was I was I I told you probably told you not to say the f word, right? You did not Say that to me You I think you said it to the opener But it was middling I don't remember you telling me anything. Was this in san francisco in san francisco. Yeah, I got a question about san francisco Go um the the the opener I I heard that you said something to her about cursing And that was all I knew uh, you and I had a perfectly fine exchange with you, you know, I didn't know you that well either, right? but uh Yeah, it was fun and I was I was interested in watching you Um, then he took a nap in the green room. I I was interested, but then I was so I watched two minutes and I was like hell yeah, I gotta I've had a long day You know a lot of people said that about watching cosby I'm drowsy all of a sudden I'm gonna take a nap in the dressing room What venues were there? I don't think that was the same I don't Do you remember waking up with your pants down around your ankles? Like lose your headliner now, kevin amary Say my name introduce me. I know you're a middle act. Say my name Introduce me Hear my credit, let me hear you say him. He's a middle and a bottom, right? Oh Knock it off. I'm not doing that again. Come on honey Do my intro Place clubs and colleges Give a warm mouth to david feldman So okay, so but uh, did I give you any advice because sometimes I get uh Um I don't think we talked that much. I just remember was I happy? Did I seem depressed? Tell me about me. No, you seemed uh, you seemed fine. I wasn't I and that was the thing I didn't know what to think What year was this? I'm pretending. I don't remember this. This is a power thing Eric, this is this is like this is what this does is this establishes dominos Overly very successful comedy writer and comedian. I'm jealous of So i'm pretending. I don't remember every second right This is what what happens is I invite very successful people onto the show right and then they leave broken I feel like the room got small Yeah, did I hear the door slamming suddenly I should I should do the show I should get back to the show. I think of an answer. Um, I think I broke him I just come back a wee paper No, there wasn't a lot of advice talk Um, usually I do that's one of my annoying things, but I feel like Frank here. Okay. Is Frank We're gonna wrap this up. Okay. Um, we'll come back. Of course. Yeah, this is fun. Okay. Um Yeah, because I think If that didn't happen, then I would have then you probably wouldn't have been able to get rid of me Because I could sit and talk about this crap all day. Um, and I enjoy You know, so what what do you got? What are you? I I'm always amazed by what I don't know About stand-up that I suddenly learn whether by myself or about you know, but um But yet you fell asleep Working with Dave Chappelle. I uh seems like there's the look I took two naps in my entire time of opening for a day And he was going on forever Um And it was all yeah, you know look that but I also liked That I could do that I liked That part of that was if I'm being a hundred percent honest that had to be a little bit of ego me going That's right. Look at me. Well, you're you're a writer too Yeah And a writer you you wear two hats You're a writer and so I can see we got a wrap up because we're we're Let Kevin up against it very quickly Tell tell me about uh, who's this guy denzel washington and you say he's the greatest actor of all time Period. Tell me who denzel washington. He's not better than k.c. Affleck apparently No, uh, not no, that's Come on you're setting the bar high when you talk about all ca but um He's a young actor who is uh been in been in about 45 plus movies. Okay. I have to look him up Yeah, he's uh something called fences recently does some directing. Yeah two oscars. Really? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah Uh, what category? He lives with two guys named oscars. He lives He lives on a compound Two oscars so it's just two guys and they're both sloppy Yes, that's a bad even couple. I know it doesn't work. I think it's why you've never heard it Well, this person you talk about got the shaft. I think turn the oscars I think that he should have won. I think he thinks he got the shaft I think it's one of the rare times when he was not hiding here. You know, I obviously I can't speak further, man but uh, he I'm trying to do a richard round tree joke, but I'm not sure if I can get there Can't get around that tree That's so bad. I can't believe I didn't say No, I'm gonna go hey before you hey, can you bring frank in so I'm not being rude to frank All right, is he okay? You're in trouble. Is he mad at me because everybody's mad at me. This is the I'm always this is well, you've blown it. I know I'm a little annoyed with you. You know what? This is the only time This and stand-up is the only time I'm calm Yeah, the rest of the time I'm under siege The rest of the time I'm being attacked also with Denzel Washington movie. Yes So, what is the Denzel Washington podcast about it? It's just about a guy named Denzel Washington all things Denzel and It's me and W. Connell just talking about our love for this uh, this actor Who's probably the greatest actor of all time period You know, I listened to it once and all I heard was You shaft the balls the shaft look That's that's just how it works I'm sorry if you don't like it get the hell out. I hope you haven't met him I have met him. Oh shit that the whole He hasn't been on the podcast. Oh good. Don't have him. I do not have him on the pod. You can't have Then it's over right the final episode. I mean you cannot have him. You can't top it I don't know. We yeah, it's um I I had like the uh, the the kid the coat kid commercial thing that you talked about I had one of the mean jill green Yeah, I had one of those where he was I'd seen him speak And I was wandering around the theater after it was over just kind of waiting for an uber driver And I looked up and I ran into him like And we had a brief exchange and he can you I I have to wrap it up. Yeah, I'm gonna give both of you the last word But I have to get this off my chest Please is out. I just want to say this and has it's not important, but I just have to share this with you Did you ever see I'll send it to you the Don Rickles appearance on Letterman with Denzel Washington No, yeah I haven't seen in a while, but yes, watch it. Watch it because I actually I When I think about it, I get emotional for America to me it is like Oh This is this is a country that Is getting better. It's it's Denzel With Letterman. Yeah, and Denzel's always good in interviews too and then Letterman goes, you know Don's Don Rickles is coming out and Denzel goes. Oh, I want to stick around for that And that's great right away because like normally he's like well, I have to go I have to stick around for Don and Dave goes really he goes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I want to and so they He moved over and Rickles came out and here you have Denzel Washington the and it's just a hopeful Beautiful experience. Yeah, I don't mean to burst the bubble But Don couldn't Close he could not seal the deal. He didn't do. Oh What he was supposed to do you have to watch it had he done What Denzel wanted him to do It would have been a ground it would have been the most beautiful thing in american history. I need to see this again I need to know exactly Don chickened out because had he pulled the trigger it would have been It would have been iconic In terms of the civil rights movement, but he chickened out He didn't and I have a theory as to why but I'm not going to discuss it right now You get the last word Kevin. Yeah Denzel Washington is the greatest actor of all time period. Mm-hmm. How do people contact? I'm at kevin avery on twitter. So find me there The the podcast is on itunes. It's on ear wolf. It's everywhere podcasts are and um And congratulations on your writer's guild award. Thank you. Oh, thanks very much. Very good. Yeah, and Mr. Branstad, yeah, just follow me on twitter eric brand steen e r i k b r a n s t e e n Um, and I have a podcast to last exit to brooklyn, which I do with tom mcaffery the most depressing movie. I've ever seen I love that movie one for me one for george one from the gay guy Who's splitting the pills? Oh, that sounds have you ever seen that? No. Oh, it's a beauty Oh, it's one of the most who's the director. He's a german guy, right? Is it not that? Why do I think wolf now? Um, anyway last exit to brooklyn so sad Okay, wrap it up. Yeah, I don't want to ask you what's the best denzel movie of all time I mean that's hard to say I someone say malcolm x my my favorite, uh, uh denzel flick It was malcolm 10 What where's my it's a franchise. Yeah, no, I know malcolm's, uh eight seven and three So check those one way it went to outer space. That was a good one. Yeah crimson tide for my money is my favorite Really, uh denzel washington movie. It's a great. It's a very underrated movie. I like sub movies Okay, gandalfini's in that too. I have to watch you. We're just going to say gandalf That's way below that's below the that's below the water even Wizard rises up and moves the submarine. Uh, I remember watching training day Great and I remember saying This is how wrong I was. I said, I gotta wrap it up. I could I remember watching the movie saying This is a flawed movie. Yeah, but he is going to get the oscar And it's like training day is like a martin scorsese film in that and by the way, I said scorsese not scorsese He's not calling him marty. It's not scorsese. Yes, you're right. Okay Uh training day is like a marty movie in that when you see it the first time you think It's got a lot of great moments, but it doesn't add up and then it comes on the television. You go, oh my exactly This is the greatest movie I've ever seen of my wife. It's just yeah, it's one great moment after another Jesus, we need to have you want to talk about this. I'll talk about denzel. Please. I'll talk about the letterman appearance Oh Because I have I have serious issues with that. Oh my god. Yeah. All right I'll talk because I I think finally something good came out of this whole hour. I'll talk about why I think don Missed out. I'm gonna go watch that right now. I'm so interested. Let's talk about it because I think he missed out on an iconic Moment that would be in the new museum at the smithsonian. Hey, thank you, sir. Thank you. This was great Madam great work when we come back my lady when we come back. We're gonna take our clothes off And first we'll have to put them back on to take them off and mr. Frank conif will join us. What a great show. Thank you guys Welcome back. Welcome back Frank conif is about to join us, but I have to address something before we talk and I didn't put you on the round table because I didn't want to share you You haven't been here for a while and I did not want to share Frank conif with anybody else There's plenty of me to go around ladies But before we do i'm on my apology tour mea culpa mea culpa tour I was 20 minutes late for the taping And I need to apologize For last tuesday's episode Because my energy was elsewhere. I had will durst and bobby slayton Was it friday show? Yes, you're right Yes, you're right. This is tuesday's episode Um, well, there you go. This is what happened So we had juda grunstein on the show from world policy review, which you should Listen to that you would like that. Okay. I want to talk to you about my conversation with juda grunstein Hang on right making a note But I also had two of my heroes will durst and bobby slayton and the show was slapped together And you guys all started in san francis together, right? Yeah And I opened with a lousy joke And it was a sloppy show It was slapped together because I wasn't focused I am Getting a divorce. I'm pretty much divorced, but the lawyers Keep making me dot the i's and cross the t's because they it's extra billing hours. There you go And because I do a show with ralph nader not that he's advising me in any way I feel morally obligated to call these guys scumbags To let them know that they're scumbags. If not, they're like corvairs to you Yeah, so Alex kept saying to me I Stop writing these letters to your attorney Focus on the show And I could not let go of it I could not and all my energy went into Explaining to my divorce attorney the one I just No longer work with but what he suffers from That does it does it make it more awkward that um bobby And um will and myself are all siding with your wife I'm I am too That's why I'm such a difficult client for these lawyers. I'm going she's just give her everything It don't get a divorce. That's my advice. I'll try not to now. You have a book out Cats versus con if you're currently writing well, it's it's it's in final proofing stage now It'll be out in about a month or so and it's kind of like I haven't read it But I would assume it's kind of like a divorce, right? It's no it's uh, it's it's my cats It's a chronicle everybody probably read about this in the papers of when my cats sued me for defamation of character Yeah, I didn't I didn't want the nasty things I said about them on twitter And so it's it's a defamation of character suit. Are you allowed to talk about this? Um, I can talk a little bit about it when it comes out. I'll be able to talk about it I was I as I well because if you read the book the whole thing was settled but uh, Oh, it is I don't want to give I yeah, I don't want to give that away But you didn't have to sign a confidentiality agreement Uh, no, I didn't not with my cash. So you're going to talk about this This trial where my cat sued me. Yes Is going to be the main focus of this book, uh, cat's v con but aren't you afraid the cat is going to see you for writing the book Um, that could happen. They they are I love them both bill a million barney, but they are asshole. So That could happen at any point who who is more litigious Um, I would say milley is the is the more litigious ones for reasons. I won't give away, but that you'll find out in the book And they sued you for defamation of character. Yes so That's pretty hard That's hard to prove in the united states that you file in a British court. I mean no, it was an american court Hmm Yeah, so they yeah, are you sure you can talk about this? Um, I I can talk about it a little bit I don't want to talk about it too much until the book comes out but uh Well, frank also has a book that you can all get right now. Yes available on amazon Um, and uh, and wherever I do a show. I'm always have it as merchandise 25 mystery science theater films that changed my life in no way whatsoever And for those of you who don't know who frank conif is He is Without a doubt and I mean this sincerely the best Twitterer and facebook poster Out there. Oh, well, thank you. I the best I I I would put some people now you're My my uh partner at serious xm. John fugal saying it's a pretty great. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes That being said I will give you the greatest compliment I can give because I like to post. You know who my favorite tweeters are Uh, it's a cross-up between eddie pepidson. Yes And uh, a partner and charola Okay, her tweets are brilliant. Okay every single one of them. Well coming from you. Mm-hmm That is that speaks Volumes and michael fox. So you've had on the show is also a great tweeter Hey, michael fox. Mm-hmm Let's talk about michael fox. Michael fox is fucking brilliant. Thank you. Yes I am so glad you said that because She was on to me. Uh-huh and by that. I mean she was coming on the show and She kind of saw through me and I had to earn her respect I didn't give her that I was putting her on round tables. Right And that was unfair to her. Mm-hmm. She is brilliant. Yes. She really is and and she's on our last Tuesday show, uh-huh With cathleen madigan. Mm-hmm Oh, that's a great lineup. Yeah boy, you know, but she was alone. Right. She is as sharp I'm so glad you said that. Yeah, I had a really fight for her respect. Oh, I've been a big Uh, booster of her for a long time. In fact, um, it was on my recommendation When uh, john fugelsang and I and you were in a couple of the shows. I think when we were doing, um Live riffs of the debates Uh She she was in those shows on my recommendation because I the first time I met her I did a show that someone else book that was, um making fun of um Music videos from the from the 80s. They show them and then we we just uh, yelled out comments And she was so funny that then when we were going to do that at qed with the debates Um, she was kind of the I I recommended her based on that because she has two podcasts. Yes this weekend jacking Which she does with A guy right and then she does shame on which I've been on shame on This weekend jacking is great, but my Sorry, thank you. No problem. Does that kick you? No, I'm good. Okay. I'm gonna kick you. So I'm sorry But I will be kicking you I don't hit that's what I told the divorce attorney. I don't hit just kick I shame on with her co-host Karen uh, uh Karen fiendin. Yeah, that should be a television show. It's great. They're great together. They're both great And it's it's a hilarious premise. They literally shit on everything in the world All that behold dear and that we think is good and right in the world. They take a giant crap on every Week and they're hilarious Unfiltered and until I listen to that I apologize to mica Last week on the show because I knew her as a stand-up And she kind of You really see the brilliant. I mean, she's a brilliant stand-up. She's a great stand-up The shame on though is where because it's a podcast, right? You can really reveal what that's shows her Brilliance and so when I when I brought her I was able to get her to come back on I I think I treated her differently Thank god. Mm-hmm and Saw her more three-dimensionally and saw her only as a stand-up and I don't Read her twitter follow her twitter is great Okay, and what is it like what is she just she just she writes jokes, you know, whatever About whatever is going on or things that happen to her Observations of hers and and they're they're great and eddie pep atone. Yeah eddie pep atone is in a class all by himself Absolutely. Yes, you know you're writing the thing that I find annoying about you Is you write perfect jokes that remind me of my flaws as a writer? Oh, I doubt that but no, no you do you write these perfect jokes and I say Oh, wow That is brilliant and I don't come anywhere close to Eddie Is that he comes up with just stuff that no one else would come up with and he he puts Different thoughts together in a way that's just it's pure purely from the subconscious it feels like and Um, you and eddie paul keselowski. Mm-hmm a comedian. Yes And an artist had a gallery on the fake gallery on melrose And it was a place a moment in time No longer is yeah One of the really fun things about living in la at that time the fake gallery And uh, I used to do my podcast live from there My first exposure to the fake gallery You and eddie Would sit in a balcony right On iso cams with cameras on us. Yes, but separately separately But there'd be two tv screens on the stage that would have us Host mc the show and it was like and we never did material we just Battered with each other when I did do material And the way eddie had a deconstructing everything And I'd say some joke and he goes, you know that joke worked better three weeks ago, you know He just like the way he deconstructs things is so hilarious My mind is racing right now. So let me just say this and then we'll get to other stuff paul keselowski's The fake gallery doesn't exist anymore. No, but let me describe to the listeners What this was and I think paul Should he lives in upstate new york? He does. Yes Let's contact paul And you and eddie Should do that somewhere with paul. That would be great. I would love that Let me describe this to the audience and let's get the ball rolling on this because I would definitely go watch this And this was before you guys This was like right when obama got elected. Yeah, it was it was it was 10 10 years ago eight years ago So you both of you were really funny, but nobody knew how funny you were keselowski did Yeah keselowski was always a big but nobody knew who you were back then People like writers knew who you were right, but nobody knew eddie was Yeah, I think I think his reputation had already was already growing back then for sure So the way paul set this up was there'd be two old television sets on the stage The lights would dim the tv's would be turned on and you and eddie like big brother Big brothers would appear and it was black and white. Yeah, that was the genius. It was great And you talk and the audience knew you were upstairs in the balcony, right? So there wasn't yeah, there were people in the balcony with their audience right just like sitting right next to us and stuff I always have a problem with playing tv In a nightclub. It's not I don't think that works Unless it's live And it was live and then you would bring up acts. Yeah I think That should be revived. So we have to contact we have to contact paul. Yeah And I would just come and watch it and I will promote it on this show And I think everybody who's listening right now should tweet at Frank and eddie pepetone to revive this. What was it called? It's just called the fake show The fake show. Yeah And then how would you do it? How would you produce this? Yeah, just the same way paul produced it is he just booked a bunch of comics, you know And there were like some spectacular lineups in those shows and also at one point eddie and I did that format hosting an open mic At the fake gallery every week and that was fun. That was when I first met uh, whitney comings used to come to that open mic Wow And uh, would it work with eddie on skype? I mean even if it could it work with skype? I don't know if it would It probably because I mean i'm i'm like i'm i don't think in terms of what technology can do So maybe it could work really well, but it wouldn't be as funny. We got to get paul in on those. Yeah, we notice notice how Hey, alex, did you see what I just did there? We Should we include paul in on this? What about eddie? We don't need eddie on this. We don't need anybody We're just human. I can do what eddie does Hey alex Can we get a younger frank for? That's when you bring the industry. That's what they'll start to ask Does it have to be tv? Why don't you stand on the stage with them? Hey, and then it's uh, but you know what I have to say though about eddie that um If you want there's no better indication of how screwed up the uh The entertainment industry is that he is not a gigantic star at the moment. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean we know a lot of funny people for you for you But eddie I feel like the fact that Industry people aren't jumping all over themselves to give him a show You know and they give all these other people show and got shows and god bless them But eddie pep atone. I think has that really special quality that that that he could Really um Be a big star. I've always felt that about him. Can I brag uh, can I brag sure? I Knew that you and eddie Were geniuses and on this podcast when I was living in LA If you go back and listen to all the sketches, right I the only thing I take pride. I don't claim to be brilliant, but I knew you and eddie Um, and we had writers come in and write and you wrote and I wrote and if you put eddie in a sketch You're not going to go wrong. That's all there is to we had a talk show Steve Rosenfeld with right these sketches. It was pep atone tonight, right? You were the sidekick right and and you were in rehab, but eddie was a vicious Comic he hosted a show and would make fun of you for drinking and try to get you drunk, right? Yes, he did get me drunk at one point I think but uh, and then we what was the um, sharia law and order did we do with or real law with uh, with Months, no, they're hanging. There was those are two separate things laurik keitlinger Came up with months A cop it's a dirty world that needs a dirty cop right months That was eddie. He was detective months. I'll take up those and then there was Dan pasturnak Who's been on the show said I tweeted out something five years ago about sharia law and dan pasturnak who The head of ifc Wrote to me on twitter sharia law. Isn't that the new chuck norris? right series for cba network So We wrote I said can I have that it goes go ahead So we came up with sharia law eddie peppatone, right? There's only one law nicks sharia nicks sharia. Yeah So it was a guy it was eddie. He was detective nicks sharia who played by its own rules Right, it just so happened to be he was enforcing sharia law right from the quran, but he didn't know it Yeah, because he was nicks sharia so he would pull I remember he pulled andrea martin over the schedule and he and Do you know why I pulled you over because I was going 50 through a school zone? No, because you're a woman driving So he went but it was it was purely american. There was no Wasn't anti arab. It wasn't anti quran. It was nicks sharia who followed his own law sharia law It just so happened to be The actual laws from sharia law. It was so funny and of course The other thing that the do you remember the academy what happened to the academy awards for best picture Um, they gave us the wrong right right remember we did that. Oh, we did. I don't remember that you and eddie This is one of my favorite episodes We had so we created this world where peppatone tonight Was this big sitcom a big talk show and you and eddie because you were his You were his andy ricketer right man You presented at the emmys and we played you to presenting at the emmys. You don't remember this. I don't remember that and you were It was uh Boardwalk your best, uh dramatic series and eddie reads the nominations And the winner is He goes Boardwalk empire and we do the music every and you go eddie eddie. Look at the envelope. It's madmen One. Oh, you're right. Sorry guys Everybody from boardwalk empire sit down your show sucks. It's madmen your show sucks too But for some reason they voted every and it's k. Uh eddie eddie They're gonna kill it's one of the funniest things and when I watched the academy awards We did this five years ago. Okay, and I hope when you, um post this episode I hope you provide links to those sketches. I should probably find them. They're sitting Uh, I mean you can find them You know the people say well, why don't you do a bunch of block? you know and Charge, but I'm not gonna do it. This is like, you know, it's A lot of these things when they we're on k pfk and pacifica So wouldn't be right to Suddenly charge for you remember when uh k pfk censored us. Do you remember what sketch they said? I absolutely do It was uh Spiro Agnew's masturbation journal. No, you're wrong. They they they did censor that though. No, it was nino. You we It was nino Scalia's Masturbation journal. Oh, okay. I know it was somebody's masturbation journal. You wrote. Yes. All right I have to find these and I'm gonna put these on at the end of the And we were gonna I know we were gonna make it a series. It was gonna be a regular feature and The refined audiences at k pfk the public radio could could not handle that Right, there was I'm trying to remember it first I think the first one was spiro agnew's masturbation journal and what prompted that Um, I think we did a nixon sketch And then you said what could we do to follow that up and then I not even seriously I said how about spiro agnew's masturbation and then you Loved it and said go with it and then I wrote that and then I think I did the next one after that was a scalia I think and that's the one they censored I think that was the one that they got Yeah, because it was at the time we were on I think we were on a 4 30 on friday after me. Yeah, there was a lot of uh controversy at that station because um About your show because people were detecting elements of entertainment And and and we were kamikaze's We We knew we we got a rough idea Yeah That people in los angeles were listening pretty much and we started going after NBC executives by name remember that yeah, yeah, we would read variety And paul duely god bless him We did this late breaking news. We would find like ervin suskind has been bumped up from senior vice president of multicultural programming to executive vice president of New media right And we would do like you're listening k pfk 90 late breaking news ervin suskind Has been bumped up right senior vice president stories and then we'd have eddie pepitone standing outside comcast Yes, yes paul i'm standing outside comcast headquarters where ervin suskind Formerly the senior vice president of multicultural programming has been bumped Well, what does this mean for and we would do it for 10 minutes Just digging deeper and deeper into the weeds. Well, it turned out we went after We were mocking The guy who is the head of nbc now Oh, okay I have something he was moving on up. We also did a lot of mocking of the guy Who if he wasn't An evil conservative could have helped turn this election and that's mark burnett who has all the tapes of donald trump being racist and Sexist and wouldn't let anybody release you wrote the bible. Yeah, because he did a bible series, right? So you wrote Uh, the bible is presented by mark burnett, right? Smigal played trump. You that was a brilliant thing that you wrote. Oh, yeah, I don't even remember the content of it I just remember that I that I wrote it. It was great. Yeah, it was it was like the uh Mark mark burnett. Yeah presents the bible. Yeah What did you when robin came in? Uh-huh I remember Nicolucci you rose and fuel wrote some stuff Um, I remember yeah, he did um One of my sketches that robin did was um, it was about uh topo g. Show juniors one man show Yeah, that he killed it and um, oh, he was great Yeah, but the thing about robin liam's that um Was it wasn't surprising but it was just really notable to me is that You know, he has this the the image that people have him is this crazy improviser who comes in and it's just nuts He was such a solid professional, you know The professional way that he just took a script and just nailed it like the first time You know, it was just really respectful to the writers very respectful to the writers. It was just really uh Something to see it was really amazing We sent him we wrote about 20 sketches And we sent them to David steinberg as manager and uh And these were the he said these are the ones robert robert robin would feel comfortable doing rebecca and uh so I remember I said to the writers Uh, you know, we we had a meeting this was the this was the biggest thing right in our lives, you know, and uh This sandesky trial was just starting And I came up with this as an example of like the um, I did a roast battle And I had all these writers write with me these jokes And I stuck in one of my jokes Uh And it was the only joke that died And it's why I lost The I said uh to pat dixon You know, he made fun of me for being old and I said pat you're just jealous because I was alive when Martin Luther King got assassinated Right I wrote that right and The audience just booze and I'm thinking you know what I I law and they the judges specifically said You've lost this because of that joke And so Well, you know the greatest uh, I I just wanted to get back to so So robin we have this meeting. This is a big thing. We're you know, we're doing we're doing a sketch show for kpfk And we have robin williams coming and we have these meetings and I say Uh Why don't we do Duly's tavern we had a finger paul duly and a tavern And guy nickaloo. She said he would write this up. I said, why don't we have a sting operation By the fbi to to get jerry sandusky on tape molesting a little boy And and robin will play America's youngest detective And he'll be wired and he'll come on to to sandusky, you know, this is the bar where we're uh Jerry sandusky hangs out right and robin will play America's youngest undercover detective Traps predators sexual predators And we wrote he wrote i'm gonna blame guy nickaloo. She the funniest sketch in the world Well robin would play this detective who's flirting with jerry sandusky and that was exactly what he's doing And I thought it was the funniest thing in the world And uh, so we sent 20 sketches And this how stupid I am and i'm saying and the sandusky when do you want to do the And david steinberg, huh? They go well, why don't we do the sandusky sketch? We're not doing that. We we thought she sent that as a joke Yeah That's always been my problem Not realizing that Yeah, maybe robin williams doesn't want to play an eight-year-old boy. He's trying to seduce jerry sandusky. Yeah You could also you could imagine him doing it though too and someone with his sense of humor and and you know, he I think he was like all Uh Really good comedians willing to go to the dark side, you know Yeah, yeah I don't know this is this just this just stuck with me as a one of the happiest It was a happy memory. It was it was a perfect Perfect Night he came. Yeah, he was great. It was perfect. You see he was so lovely and so Yeah, gracious and and he really you know, it was really I think out of his friendship for rick overton and rick. Yeah, you know so rebecca who Is responsible for the comedy scene in san francisco and Works with robin This is just a happy memory that I always have so she she finished up and they had a fly To london. I think it was to promote Happy feet. I'm not sure but robin was leaving And she texted me She said, uh, robin had a good time. We had a good time paul mccartney In the next aisle And I said see if he'll do my podcast next week And then I get this just made me so happy and then like two minutes later She said I woke First class up I go what happens to that paul mccartney thing made me laugh so hard I thought Really, you're not gonna ask paul mccartney. Well, as you might know, he did a paul mccureo's podcast Yeah, but that's the same way You know to catch a predator The businessman Does to I mean didn't he storm paul mccartney's dressing room? Oh, I don't know I don't know the full story behind it, but he he did do it. How was he? I I've never listened to it, but uh, who would you Like who would would you be able to talk to paul mccartney without going hamana hamana hamana? I think I think I'd be very much in the hamana hamana hamana Category um John fugl saying whose show i'm the sidekick on um on series six m He's trying to get paul to do the show and it's a possibility. It could happen. He's interviewed paul in the past uh, john interviewed uh, george harrison And uh, it was the last interview that church harrison ever gave and he said that's it. I'm never giving an interview again This man is horrible. Has anybody done that show? I don't know not yet John fugl saying did the very last interview with joy? Yes, and um So I I feel that if I ever met uh paul or ringo it would be really um Highly emotional for me and um, I think yeah, I would be kind of hamana hamana hamana. I I I would have a hard time just um Chatting to him like a regular person or whatever, you know And I hear everything I've heard about him and ringo is they're very gracious when they meet people paul Um always signs autographs when people but he keeps moving he if he he stops He knows he'll be mob so he'll keep moving but he'll always he's I've heard stories of people who just Met him on the street in new york and he was very nice. So It would just be a thrill for me I you know the hard day's night was on turner classic movies like last month perfect and um, it just Brought back so much for me that it they and that movie and their music mean so much to me I was you know, I was right there when when it was all happening. I was eight years old They had a profound effect on me Um, is this hard day's night great because they didn't think about it. They just made it Yeah, well, I think I mean I think they thought about it in the sense that they had a really great script and and Richard Lester is a genius filmmaker and so a lot of thought went into all that but I really It really was kind of just done as uh, let's cash in this is like a craze going on right now Let's make this really quickly. Let's cash in Um Because they keep the Beatles songs coming like at a rapid pace in that those songs and the songs are amazing So, but I think what you're saying is true though I think part of it is is just that they weren't trying to make a classic all-time great film they were just uh, it just was happened to be Richard Lester and um, who was very in tune with what What was going on in terms of culture at that time and you know, there's one scene where one of their um Managers is reading a paperback copy of a mad magazine and you know So in other words, they they just had that modern sensibility of comedy That a lot of people making movies at that time didn't have although cuprick had it too Um, dr. Strangelove came out that same year. Wow. So that was like kind of dr. Strangelove And um a hard day's night is kind of the modern world of The modern sensibility the modern comedic sensibility kind of presenting itself into hollywood and hollywood wasn't quite ready for They were british films. Yeah. Kubrick lived in london. Yeah, he made it in in in london. Yeah Yeah And peter cellars who had also worked with richard lester, you know, they were all part of the goon show, you know And and well, we ended up loving and money python All had its roots in in in richard lester and a hard day's night and tell me about richard lester He's the uh Filmmaker who directed a hard day's night and then he did help and then he did um Another great. Uh, well, he did it. He did everything he did was interesting But help is where is it john who takes a poop in the apple pie? Or is it paul? Um No, I don't remember that scene help. He's like he's like a maid No And you're having that you're me. Oh, you're mixing it up with the the help The help you have it mixed up with i'm sorry magical mystery turn Yeah, what's the the help I need some the help i'm gonna I need some laundry the help Won't you please clean me clean But uh, so richard lester was just a brilliant filmmaker who Um introduced himself to the world with I think he might have made one or two films before that He made a film called the knack around that time he made um And he did like a funny thing happen on the way to the forum What was the knack the knack which I haven't seen in ages was a wasn't that in Uh, what's that janine graffalo movie with ben stiller? Reality bites. Yeah, what weren't wasn't that movie featured in my sharonah was a band called the knack probably named after that movie I'm I'm guessing um And uh, the knack was about a guy getting teaching another guy how to pick up girls. I think that was the plot of that movie um, and then he made uh How I won the war with uh, john lennon and is that any good I haven't seen it like in so long. I couldn't tell you but he made a truly great film around that time That's not well known called uh patulia With uh, julie christie and george c scott Uh, wow really great film george c scott and julie christie. Yeah. Yeah, what year was this? This was like 1967 68 I think so um, yeah, he was very much at the vanguard of like the uh, british, um You know the what was going on in england at the time. Okay, so but but i'm just wondering What is he most known for he's most known for a hard day's night? and um Help not the help And also he directed the first christopher reef superman movie. No, no, no, I got that wrong richard donner directed that although richard lester worked on credit. He directed superman 2 And also made a great film with john connery and audrey heppern called robin and marion and um um He did some other stuff too that uh, it's it's not, you know, very um, there's actually there's a there's a full length there's a book The the whole book is an interview between uh, steven soderberg and uh, richard lester Wow, so that's if people are interested in knowing more about him. I totally recommend that that's interesting because soderberg Did everything and soderberg like everybody reveres richard lester francis coppola revered him He had a huge influence on everyone who came after him scorsese. You name it. They all Um, oh the he richard lester was an influence on every filmmaker that came after him Now did soderberg didn't he just kind of at the height of his Career just walk away from movies and just declare that's it. I'm done Well, he he he went into television and he did the show and I can't believe everything is tying together the nick Which is not the knack He did a show called the nick about a hospital about a hospital that was really good and um, yeah, he's I think he's He feels like television is more where it's at these days. I think it is. Yeah movies I just But I hope he makes another movie though because he's great being a movie director Never held any appeal To not that I was ever going to direct a movie. It just seems like It's mostly about not working as opposed to working whereas television Is your grinding stuff out and maybe a hard day's night will pop up Right and then it's on to the next there is there is something nice about Creating stuff Without having to be profound. Yeah, right a lot of great music is that way a lot of a lot of great pop songs are just you know a song like up on the roof or a lot of the Carol king jerry goff and stuff from the 60s and and other songs It's just the drifters are going into the studio on tuesday. They need a song and we want it to be a hit, you know And uh And then they would just write it and it would turn out to be something that ended up being timeless, right? I think steely dan Early on realized that which is why they brought in so many studio musicians and just there was a parade they kind of Had a tin pan alley Absolutely. Yeah, just bring them in, you know, this is great brings somebody let's hear another drummer. Let's just yeah, yeah Uh, so there was no everything has a light touch to it. Yeah, that's I think that's important musicians I think the light touch is important in pop music And there's a lot of stuff that doesn't have a light touch that I love a lot of like what's called The catholic church also believes it Very light touch There's a lot of what's called prog rock. That's incredibly overblown and pretentious that I love you know like yes and emerson like impomer and king crimson and Um So I think it's just whatever talented people however they go about it. It turns it usually turns out great Yeah, so how do you approach the new york times? Um, I try not to hello ball. Remember that the honeymooners approach the ball. Oh, hello ball You young kids Uh Go get the honeymooners, right? The greatest as great a tv show is ever made. Yeah. Yeah, and just depressing Yeah, it's just one bleak set. Um The the most minimal art direction ever for any tv show and and This is just I think this is good advice to guys And I apologize to women for saying this and this is just my taste in women If you meet a woman who's into the honeymooners You might want to find another woman. Really? I think so. I think that would be a plus for me Oh, I think that's the honeymooners. I'm turned off by women who say racist things And who are who are into the honeymooners There's just those two things are equivalent apps. Uh, obviously I I any woman who would find humor in something that's sad Well, what about men who find humor in something that's sad because that that's where we live Uh That's the heart of a man is we're all Ralph. Well, you know the thing is is um Jackie gleason and art carney are both So amazing and they're so amazing together and they're they're such great performers But that show doesn't work without Audrey meadows. Mm-hmm, you know, and she was also really great Really just essential to that show, right? Well, you need three it's uh You know, it's super ego and ego. Yeah. Yeah, all that. How do you approach the new york times? How do you approach because this is the thing I've noticed about you and fugal saying But i'm very impressed by Your vast knowledge Of things your deep knowledge on so many things You know politics, you know government, but you also know movies, you know tv music so Are you studying the stuff or enjoying it? Oh, uh, I don't know when you are you do you Study movies or do you just enjoy? No, I don't think I've ever studied movies or music or anything that I'm into I'm into the stuff that I'm into because I enjoy it and it just washes over and it's never it's never a homework assignment Dodd worth Dodd worth is a great movie. Uh, it's not an assignment. No, I love I love William Weiler I love and I love Sinclair Lewis who whose novels I read purely out of enjoyment The moment that I decided I was going to read just for enjoyment That's when I became a big reader, you know And the and the great works of literature That I have read like Anna Karenina and crime and punishment I read because I enjoyed them, you know And other crap like Shakespeare. I just stay away Because I don't know what the fuck it's about right but the trick to Shakespeare Is to know the story Yeah, I finally learned this Get the cliff notes To Julius Caesar right and find out what the story is and who the character is You only read Shakespeare for the language You don't read it for the story if you're trying to figure out what's going on in the story Yeah, that's where and I saw um our friend Judy gold was in Shakespeare in the park in um the taming of the shrew or was it the merchant? No, it was the taming of the shrew and she was great. The production was great. It was magical To watch it on a beautiful night in central park Is any anyone in new york in the summer should try to go see a shakespeare in the park production? It's magical. I I have to say I didn't follow most of it No, I I looked I looked up Uh I said to the guy blowing me. Hey Is that shakespeare? Yeah. No, it's riko. I'm riko. No, no I'm the play up there. I'm that's you got arrested on riko I'm riko predicate. Hey, judy gold was on colbert, right alex Yeah, I missed it. I missed it too. I bet she killed. Yeah, I'm sure she did and and god bless colbert for having her on Well, they're doing they're putting they put uh kohani kori kohani on they're putting funny people on that's great I think that was part of um They're um like kind of reboot or whatever they brought in like a new producer or something and I think because they it seemed like early on They were purposely not having comedians on and um You know what it doesn't hurt your show to have comedians on it I could as a kid you would stay up all you know you would wait for the comic to go We grew up though in an era where there weren't like cable channels and you know where you could just watch stand up all the time Who was your favorite comic as a kid? Uh, woody allen Really, I would think it would be jonathan winters jonathan winters. Um, I loved Um, I loved him a lot, but woody allen was was really my favorite and um Just because of how brilliant he was and and how great the jokes were and how Um, I just loved him right from the start and the thing about jonathan winters too who was always Really funny though, but you kind of got the impression that you were you were catching like a snapshot of him That if you saw him live Like uninhibited you would really get the full jonathan winters and you were Smart enough as a kid to understand. No. No. I think looking back at it I I think that's why I might have liked woody because woody allen When you saw him do a stand-up set you were getting what he did, you know, it really was Who he was just those jokes and those stories um, but but uh But you know my first ever for one second I remember jonathan winters having a show Freeze. He had a few a few shows the one that was on at 7 30. Yeah, I remember that It was it was that was like a syndicated half hour show right and I love that. Yeah, but I remember watching him on car Thinking there's a kid. Well, he's unprepared. Yeah Oh, yeah, but you were smart enough to know. Yes, he's unprepared exactly. Yeah, but but um And also jonathan winters another thing about him too is that I think Um, at the time when we were younger was also a time when he was kind of stepping back from it a bit because he was having Issues and and he kind of climbing the yeah, it was kind of going a little crazy. He climbed the mast Yeah, and he quit he quit performing, you know, and stuff like that. So That that might factor into it, but but I always, uh Loved him, you know, yeah, but and if I could go back in time To Greenwich Village and like the late 50s and if I had a choice Between seeing Lenny Bruce at the top of the gate or jonathan winters at the cafe. Wow, I would pick jonathan winters in a second Hmm Would you kill baby arianna huffington? I would but I probably wouldn't get paid for it Oh, I can't even laugh That just was beyond Oh my god Sorry Wow, see why I didn't want to share him I'm not sharing frank with anybody arianna huffington worse human being on the planet I don't know. Uh, she's I've always had a bit of a problem with her And you know when we talk about steve bannon now You know bright bart was was her guy, right? You know, he was the guy who got the huffington post up and running Yeah, I met andrew bright uh A couple times because he would hang out at uh bill marshow And you know, he was very charming. Mm-hmm kind of good-looking And I knew that he had designed the drudge report and didn't get credit for it and when arianna huffington decided hey, there should be a Liberal version of the drudge report. Yeah She hired andrew bright bart to design the huffington post and I remember thinking that's not right But then again, she used to be a rabid conservative. Yeah, I she strikes me as as a bit of an opportunist A bit. Yeah a bit and she and she's not at huffington post anymore. She kind of made her fortune and moved on And now they've gone union. Yeah. Oh, well good. I'm glad to hear that But I think that's what she's all about anyway is just catch in and sure move on to the next thing arianna huffington Did not pay her. She cashed in on her her being a conservative too because Her husband who became gay Uh or revealed himself as gay. He decided to be gay. He was a um Usually rich person and she I got a big settlement from from him. Yeah oil money. Yeah. Yeah, so she's You know, she's she's very good at uh at just cashing in on stuff and keeping her mouth And I never trusted her as a liberal Spokesperson and also she was like a big Um in the 2000 election She was a big false equivalency person and saying there was no difference between algore and uh, george w bush And she had her shadow convention or whatever bullshit that was, you know, it's it's just no i'm not a fan She had money to spend. Yeah because she had her ex-husband's estate and she kept the money even though According to amy burgs documentary a known secret Uh michael huffington attends boy parties were little boys and Listen to my interview with the producers of a known secret Michael huffington arianna huffington's x Shows up at a party specifically designed to Sit in a hot tub with young boys And arianna Kept her mouth shut. Mm-hmm. Amy burg didn't she made a documentary and it's not that's not a big story out there It's people wonder why yeah, yeah You wonder why well, you know david geffen invested in the company that Held these parties. Okay, so people don't talk. Okay. Well Yeah, it's the word amy burg very very great director. Okay a known secret arianna huffington worst human being on the planet Yeah, boy once you go into once I go dark like that It it kind of just derails like I just Everything I just derailed the show I just derailed the show What's going on in the world? I don't know what's going so I was going to ask you about but I did derail the show alex I could not I could not like the hatred I don't think there's ever a bad time to talk about how awful arianna huffington is And but and we only got into arianna huffington because I was talking about going back in time to watch jonathan winters Uh-huh, so maybe we should go back to talking about jonathan winters. Well, I wanted to know how you approach the news like do you Read it methodically because you and fugal saying it's pretty humbling to do that show Tell me I read Most of what I read is um online Is there a regimen? Yeah, I get up every morning and um I uh I read um, I there's a bunch of people on twitter that I always go to I always go to eric bolhardt for media matters I always go to um Matt and glaceous To davie weigel There's this other journal. I met davie. Oh, there's this other journalist. I love cally cally joy gray I think her name is Do you have a list on twitter that yeah? Well, I don't I don't make the list, but I it's just I always go to um and a recent edition who I became a huge fan of I don't know if you saw her appearance on Tucker carlson lauren duke uh You turn me on who writes for teen vogue Who's really great you turn me on? Yeah, teen vogue is her stuff for teen vogue is better than a lot of Other magazines and stuff and and josh marshal I go to and uh Um john favaro not the director, but the guy who used to write speeches and mark harris. I like a lot on twitter Um, what are the odds that there would be two john favaro's? I know that's crazy, right? Yeah Um, and there's a couple other I might I I um I might be forgetting but And then and then they might have a link to something that I wasn't aware of and then I'll go to that Do you go back to this? Do you go what I'm curious about is so you go to twitter? And then you click on their link their links. Yeah, then do you go back to twitter? Yeah, I go back to I think twitter is like the best place to find Stories and I could anchor like hurt. I can wall. I always go to and um, he's been on the show Oh, really? You know, he's he's great and david, uh farenthold the washington post guy I don't know if i'm pronouncing his name right Um, and then they all of these people just lead me they have links to things And then I just kind of the follow the thread of Of um, the the stories and then sometimes I'll even end up on the a link to the new york times And the first thing I'll see is a message. It says you have seven more articles left this month You know, I don't want to get into it with you on the new york times, but uh, Here's what I'll say to you uh, you and I got into huge Arguments about the new york times. Well about david gregory and meet the press right and morning joe right and I apologize I was wrong because you realized how bad marning joe was I apologize. I defended the mainstream media back When I was living in la And I stood up for uh Meet the press And I stood up for uh That morning joe, but I stood up for Main a lot of david gregory. Yeah And I now realized because I was Listening to them as podcasts And I didn't care as much as you did And I now realize how Dangerous it is for the republic to do live interviews with politicians with because live doesn't cut it Because you can't stop tape and go let me look that up for a second. Yeah, well, they could do something like that But they'd rather not they're they're very One thing that's really um disgusting lately is how There's been two recent incidents of shawn spicer at his press conference and donald trump I think just yesterday had his angela merkle thing someone asked him About the wiretaps and he made a joke and all the journalists there laughed as they did with shawn spicer He made some joke and they all we're all about the job numbers Yeah, we're all just a bunch of affable people who are laughing and I actually had an argument With the serious xm's white house correspondent. He was a guest on a show. I'm blanking on his name, but My point and he goes to shawn spicer's press conferences every day My point to him is I said you don't need to go to his press conferences to do your job All shawn spicer is ever going to do to you is lie Your your time is is better spent Pursuing other things finding lower level people to get stories from you're not you're not going to get anything from shawn spicer and if you look at like All the president's men the movie the only time you see the press secretary ron zeigler Is there's a clip of him talking about how what the washington post is doing is bullshit And so it's just the press secretary lying and and the idea You know and other people have pointed this out too is the the the press should send send interns To the press conferences and spend their time doing more important Nicholas von hoffman sure sure he said Being a white house correspondent Is not reporting. It's Stenoglitz. It is yeah, and I've without even crediting him. I've stolen that line many times about That do you remember him saying that I don't remember him saying that I have used The line a million times since the bush years about the press just being stenographers Yeah, you know and just just copying down what they say and even like with trump They they refuse to just say he's a pathological pathological liar and they'll be well, there's no They'll do days of stories about you know, there's no proof of this wiretapping claim Yeah, there's no proof because he was lying just say that and move on well I think there is a virtue to stenography I go to the websites of congressmen And a lot of the writing that's coming out of the bernie sanders office elizabeth warren office Really well written fact-based journalism coming from politicians from the politicians. Yeah, and You automatically say well, you can't trust this well They're links. Well by the way and I'm not praising him in any way, but I'm just pointing out the first person during the Election to bring up trump university Was not a journalist. It was marco rubio who brought it up as a way to attack donald trump The press at the time was not interested in attacking donald trump. They were too dependent on him for ratings The way the way if I one of these days frank This show is going to be so successful I hope it's going to be out of show bristudios and I want to do I want to do the show five days a week And I want the show the first hour to be news the way it's supposed to be delivered The new york times has a new podcast the daily and they literally said Radio news the way it's supposed to be done. It's now number three on itunes and it's I love the new york times They're doing it just like everybody else There is a way to do the news I don't have the money To to pull it off right the way I would do the first hour of this podcast is To do to be a stenographer to have young interns Take an issue. What's the top story? And then you go to the website of bernie sanders And see what he says Because if you read if you paraphrase, you know, bernie sanders says And then you and elizabeth warren says bubbity bubbity on this and then you go to the right wing and you look at what the polity What what paul ryan is saying? However, paul ryan maintains right and you just you don't do a sound bite of them saying it right You read but the danger in that though is that Saying here's what bernie sanders said and here's the equivalent of it on the Republican side. It's it's not an equivalent. Oh, I agree with you on that I agree with you on that but but then you say and then the congressional budget office says this So you you provide all the government official statements on the issue as opposed to Trying to gain access To a close star you don't need you don't need and that's all those and sound bites are bullshit That's all they care about is access to senators and And spokesman and all they do is come on their shows and lies Lie and and they get very little push back and it's it's harmed our country The two best sources of news in america right now Without a doubt Amy Goodman's opening news read Although I wish she didn't do sound bites. Mm-hmm. Amy Goodman democracy now from pacifica It's pacifica What she does that's so great as she reads the news every morning for about 15 minutes I wish she didn't do sound bites. I don't need to hear an audio clip of shawn spicer I rather hear Amy Very quickly. Tell me what she said. I don't need color right And rachel rachel maddow's opening 20 minutes every night Because she has a background in radio. Yes She just talks and gives you the news. She tells it as a story best And I listen to her as a podcast the minute they bring in Let's bring in. Yeah, michael beschloss. I know it's just the height of laziness. It just dies when they do that Or let's bring in Whoever, you know, the pundits are that's what anderson cooper does the first five to ten minutes of anderson cooper Are our news and then they start bringing in You know gloria. What's her name? And she would say well, I guess and I guess I got gloria borger. She's awful I guess they're doing of this because yeah, why don't you pick up an f and phone? Yeah, right and find out find out Exactly, but instead they just opine. They just fill airtime. Yeah It's a complete waste of time. It really is by the way, I saw you looking at your so we need to wrap it up Uh, pretty soon. Okay. How much more time do we have alex? Oh I don't have any more time with franklin. I well, I I what is it? I know we gotta go till 4 30, you know No, we alex is punishing me for Being me Your dad was a Pulitzer prize-winning journalist. Yes, he was But I was nominated for a cable ace award. So in your face dad I would love this show to be four hours a day five days a week I think if we had the The wherewithal does sirius have a newsroom Uh, maybe in washington. I don't think so, but you said the sirius corresponded Yeah, he but he's out of their washington studio. And where do you hear the sirius news? Um, I don't know about he's that you know What I'm I'm not quite Sure of that It's interesting that you when you go up there sirius is great. Yeah, I walk through the the bullpen as they call It's a lot of sports. It's a lot of sports a lot of You know entertainment you you see like gigantic movie stars You'll go up there and you know walking the lobby in densel washington is there Ah, we just had we were just talking about densel, but it would be nice if they had a newsroom Um, yeah, I don't think they're maybe in washington dc. I'll say but I don't I don't know for sure But they do have a white house corresponded And no white house correspondence dinner this year at least no trump. Yeah, that's that's a shame Who's where's rich little gonna perform? Oh All right Hey, um It's been too long. Yeah. Well, I've been out of town a lot of weekends. Yeah, tell everybody about what you're doing with trace Uh traceable you and I are doing our live Show called the mads are back It's trace and I were the mad scientists on mystery science theater 3000 and we do a show where we show um a bad movie and we um and the two of us do riffs on it just like Was done on mystery science theater and we've been doing alamo draft houses all over the country and other theaters and um We're getting a lot of bookings and it's very exciting and it's really fun. I you have a lot of fans People love you they come to our shows and you know people have The connection that people have to mystery science theater is very emotional and very strong and it's really gratifying thing on our part to be exposed to that because we also Before and after the show we have a merchandising table where we whore ourselves and I sell we I sell my book and we have t-shirts But we get to meet a lot of a lot of the fans and and it's it's really wonderful really great I have to say for the first time in my career I'm getting emails from people because of the podcast not because of the stand-up But because of the podcast and Sometimes it's critical. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it's nice, right and It it feels like a kiss. Mm-hmm It's not a kiss, but it feels like one Especially because i'm so sick the deer juke hike bastard letters. I love no I don't get too many of those. I guess because my mother hang on. Let me do the joke. Okay Because my mother's stopped listening to the show Hey, do you know who shawn donnelly is? Yes, I do. He's a comedian, right? Yeah, he's been on conan comedy central really great comedian. I've seen the comedy At doing comedy a qed. Have you heard his podcast defend your movie? Um, you should do his show. I would love to do it. You'd be amazing on that show Defend your movie He invites one of his friends on to defend a movie that they're the only person who loves who loves it That's a great mark norman has been on a dance soda josh gondolman And john fish and it's a great great podcast called defend your movie with shawn donnelly I would love that Well, I think I can arrange it because it's produced out of the showbiz studios. All right I'm always willing to do a showbiz studio production How how is that for product placement? Was I like Arthur Godfrey just now? That was just Arthur Godfrey invented that He did you if you you'd be more like art for godfrey if you fired me on the air That's julius la Rosa. Julius la Rosa. Yes That's like the oldest uh broadcasting reference that's been made all day. Well frank Uh This will be the last time we're saying frank kind of is that how he did he's moving on he's moving on We're gonna wrap it up. But tell alex about julius la Rosa was a very young singer Just starting out and he he was on Arthur Godfrey's talent scouts was very successful on it And uh, after the godfrey had him on as a regular like every week and then Arthur and then uh, julius la Rosa Was getting a lot of attention You know, he's getting a lot of his own fans And Arthur Godfrey. Well, but but he also Wanted to make more money. Uh, well that I didn't oh no, he had the agent This was this was julius la Rosa trusting his agent To be able to handle Arthur Godfrey because he was young and stupid enough to think That go ahead. Yeah, and so So Arthur Godfrey one day on the air Fired him and said uh, hey this and hey, julius rosen knew nothing about it. He said this this will be julius's last Um show he's moving on Um, and then he said the line that everybody's remembers is that he fired him for his lack of humility um and uh And that's what happened and many people See that as the was the beginning of the end of Arthur Godfrey's television career Arthur Godfrey in the early fifties was his huge It was as if face in the crowd Yes, it was as if uh one person was the host of american idol and also had another he had another show too He had the Arthur Godfrey show and Arthur Godfrey's talent stouts Both of them like bigger than american idol was at its height because back in those days If you had a big show you got a gigantic he was lonesome roads. He was lonesome roads basically and um And then he like did something on the air and then suddenly what people were like wow He's kind of a kind of a jerk, you know And that was kind of a lot of people think that's was the beginning of the but it unlike face in the crowd It wasn't someone turning on the microphone. It was self-inflicted. Right. Yeah, I have run into trouble on this show when people go He's a good guy He just did something kind. Yeah, you or someone Alex tried to undermine you by recording you saying something compassionate One out of a kid We're not on yet. Are we feel that one out of five american children live in poverty. It's just terrible Anyway, welcome back to the show. I'm talking. Okay. Thank you. This was this was a as usual a great Effing show And I was a pig I did not share It was great. I did not share frank conif. I do love it when I come on and there's another panelist Well, I I know but I haven't seen you and I didn't want to share you How do people Follow you and they must frank conif dot com and frank conif on twitter and facebook And your current book is 25 mystery science films that changed my life in no way whatsoever And katie, but katie Cats versus conif cats v conif is coming out in about a month And we'll come back and talk about cats. I would love that because I cannot tell you now that i'm divorced Walking into an apartment Sans cat. Yeah, it would be hard. No Fantastic. Oh, you love it without the cats. Oh They I think if if you want to know what ruined my marriage there's your arthur godfrey moment right there Sit how about Four cats and four dogs in one house. Oh, that's what you had at your old house. Yeah Plus plus my son And you know what he's like Yeah, we're rolling but just to uh, just to impress you I had mr. Liptec On the show after the oberg fell decision. Just wanted you to know that Okay, great Are you impressed? Yes Oh, you made a big mistake. You made a big mistake agreeing to this Yeah, oh, I was told I'm ready. Okay Very impressed Senate confirmation hearings for neil gorsuch began on monday Donald trump picked gorsuch to fill the supreme court seat left vacant after anton and scalia died last year One of the promises donald trump made is that same sex marriage has set a law and that he and the country have moved on Yet according to our guests neil gorsuch's confirmation could pose a serious threat to the sanctity of same sex marriage professor Cory bretschneider teaches political science at brand university And is the author of when the state speaks what should it say how democracies can protect expression and promote equality He also teaches constitutional law at brown university in fordham He holds a phd in politics from princeton university and a law degree from stanford law school You write that if judge neil gorsuch is confirmed by the senate He would pose a serious threat to same sex marriage And you are able to ascertain this information by reading a dissertation He wrote for his doctorate in philosophy back in 2004. He was attending oxford university Is that fair to dig through the writings of a nominee to try to figure out What's in their mind? So we would do it um during the bork confirmation hearings for instance We looked in depth at his uh writings In fact, I think it's probably a better way to discern his judicial philosophy than just looking at cases that he decided As a lower court judge there. He's bound by the precedents of the supreme court The difference is that supreme court justices have the ability to overturn their own precedents So we need to know what he really thinks about the meeting of the constitution and law and uh looking at his um Dissertation which is a form of published writing which then became a book not too much later And so the views were basically very similar. I take you Um, you know, that's I think about the best way we have to figure out what what he really thinks about the law Okay, how much of this is politics because The gold standard of turning down A supreme court justice is bork That seems to be modern reagan had nominated bork And ted kennedy and joe biden were on the judiciary committee at the time and they Borked him was it because of bork's Writing or was it because bork was nixon's henchman who fired? The special prosecutor the was it the saturday night massacre. They fired the darling The darling of the harvard elite archibald cox was the special prosecutor And elliott richardson wouldn't fire him and Bork bork did and wasn't he really just being punished Because kennedy i don't think so i mean i think maybe that was part of the dynamic But you know politics involves all sorts of conflicts over time What was different about bork? I think was that the decision was made that his particular version of constitutional interpretation the idea of He's a specific idea of the original Meaning of the constitution Was so deeply at odds with current legal practices and with the case law that the decision was made to To not confirm him and there's still a lot of controversy and bad feeling about that hearing But I think that the general premise that you should ask the for for life after all What it is that they think the constitution means and how they'll go about interpreting it and um You know that's the evaluate the nominee and I think part of that is as under started With um this nominee nil nil judged nil or such well He was getting his doctorate in philosophy. Was it judicial philosophy and this legal philosophy legal philosophy So he was getting excuse me for one second. So there so it was specifically legal philosophy and this was back Oh, yes. Yeah, and in fact in the dissertation and in the book. He's a historical Dissertation for instance about thomas equinas. He's trying to opine on the meaning of the modern Doctrine of the law and of the constitutional law and the dissertation is similar except for a crucial difference that we'll get to are Really inquiries into the meaning of the constitution right in euthanasia. So this isn't an abstract abstract idea Yeah, so he was writing his dissertation at oxford So is it possible that he wasn't thinking that he would ever become a supreme court nominee? Is it possible that he was just trying to impress the dons? At at oxford and not the dons No I don't think so. I mean he published the book If he if that was the case I mean no, I don't think so. I mean he Not too much later publish the book with princeton university press Amos the dissertation as I said, there's some small differences, but important but small differences But the the ideas don't change. And so if it was just some academic exercise I don't see why you would publish it with a major major When your professor when you're a lawyer, isn't everything an academic exercise. Aren't you able to take any side? Uh, you know, I think that's the difference between being an academic and writing an academic book and being a lawyer I think the role of the lawyer that's as possible And um, I am trained in exactly the same two areas as neil gorsuch and political philosophy and constitutional law Work is to tell the truth not to um Advocate for some particular point of view in a way. It's the fundamental duty of a scholar to tell the truth of how you Yeah, what you think about the issues, right? Okay, and they're leaving Gorsuch is leaving breadcrumbs for the judiciary committee in his writings I I hope they take them. I mean they're more than breadcrumbs. It's uh, they're in plain sight. What do you think? And uh, they um, right so my hero My hero al franken Sits right through the judiciary committee shelled in one thing on him. Yes One of the most brilliant legal minds in the senate because because he doesn't have a law degree The shelled in white house have a law degree and if how many Does Lee Lee Lee? I don't know. Uh, how many of these guys on the judiciary committee Have law I'm also counting on shelled in white house. So I am I need to uh confirm this But he was the uh state attorney general in rod island. So yes, I I'm uh, almost sure that he has I don't think he would have that position without it. Right, but you can you can be a judge and not have a law degree Uh, technically you can in fact, you could be a supreme. There's no requirement in the constitution That says that supreme court justices have to have them but I it's you know, beyond me Who the last person without a law degree was there's been talk every once in a while of nominating somebody with that one But it has been a long long time since anybody's been on that court without a law degree Mommy if you listening there's still hope Yeah So and there's nothing in the constitution That dictates we can't have an even split on the supreme court. We could go for four in perpetuity, right? Well, in fact, Ted Cruz who uh, brought that up several times, uh, when maryc garland, um, was obviously not only not confirmed But the senate refused to hold hearings about his nomination And one of the argument no constitutional requirement of nine and that's true and we could have eight I would like to bring that up a parent that this nominee be confirmed or that any Uh, I meant of nine Ted Cruz was right And if that was the case in the last table here, too If it's an even split on a decision then it just goes back to the appellate Courts, right? It affirms, um, the lower court, uh opinion, whatever came before Technically, but it doesn't set a new precedent. So It's sort of a four four split is is a kind of weak Decision it has legal force in the affirmation, but it Doesn't create new law or a precedent are there possible rumblings in washington dc This is just me hypothesizing That some people feel the supremacy of the supreme court unelected judges are a danger to democracy And that a four four split Would weaken the judiciary and allow Congress to make decisions is is do you think it's possible? I mean that argument The argument comes up a lot that you know, how can the supreme court strike down long decisions that were millions of people were involved in? But I I think anyway that our constitutional system requires the protection We need a strong we need a strong judiciary and I think Trump has shown Trump has shown the dangers of a weakened judiciary a politicized judiciary and many have said that Before you can have a democracy before you can have a republic you need A respected military and then a respected judiciary and once those institutions Are up and running then the people can be Consulted and I think we in many ways we're seeing that with trump that you know mattis We got mattis over at I think he's defense I think I got that right and you've got uh And he's a respect, you know, I trust mattis believe it or not and You know the judiciary so far despite all the lives that are being ruined they seem to be Standing a thwart trump's history and saying slow down. So we you know, it's it's good to have that but when you have obama A progressive on my side in the white house You kind of you kind of want less of an activist supreme court But that's neither here nor there. Hey, you're from let me go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah I was just gonna make one point about that, which is I mean I think what you're saying is the crucial Um Thing of our time which is that president trump has shown that he has a complete disrespect for the rule of law And for the judiciary it started during the campaign with the attacks on judge curiel The attacks on the ninth circuit and of the district court judge who stopped the travel ban And it's essential for him to learn and I hope he is learning through the process of that travel ban controversy That we have an independent judiciary and that their decisions have the force of law And uh, if he threatens to not obey for instance the court decision Uh, god forbid that that should actually come to pass then that is really a threat to To constitutional democracy. The whole system relies on the court being able to make matters of law You know, uh, Andrew Jackson, I think he was the seventh president of the united states Donald trump went to the hermitage to Lay a wreath at his grave instead of to piss on it Which I would do Andrew Jackson said to john marshal during the Ruling on the trail of tears. Well, you've made your decision now go now go enforce it. Where's your military to enforce it? Steve bannon knows who Andrew Jackson is is this an unveiled or a veiled threat to the judiciary his visit To the hermitage the the the Andrew Jackson portrait in the oval office. Is he saying to the supreme court? I have the military. Is this a reference to that? I mean, I what you're saying Is about the most frightening thing from the perspective of the stability of constitutional democracy I unfortunately saw a very disturbing tweet by mike huckabee invoking similar logic About not obeying the Recent hawaii court decision about the travel ban And I can't stress enough the idea that that the executive branch would refuse to Obey a direct order from a federal court is Really a direct assault on the entire system of constitutional democracy. There's nothing more fundamental So I don't know that trump is taking these um Claims seriously you're thinking about them, but he cannot I mean without Really abandoning his fundamental constitutional role final point nixon. I was just gonna ask you about that Yeah, please interrupt. Well, I was going to say that with the tapes with the tapes in nixon. There was an executive The the supreme court said you have to release the tapes and then it became a constitutional crisis of I believe check of checks and balance and separation of Judiciary from the executive branch potential about that episode which you know There was a moment where there was discussion about would he or would he not turn over the tapes if he was ordered to do so But what's essential for students of history and especially important now to remember Is that the so-called, you know Anti-constitutional president nixon absolutely turned over the tapes And there was no discussion that he didn't have to because he had the military on his side or anything like that And we have to remember that that you know, even his hesitation Before the order or what many regarded as hesitation the fact that we remember that hesitation That's how serious this is but in the end he did turn over the tapes and as he was constitutionally required And that's why that period of history compared to what's going on now had What at least clearly defined Understand what courts did and their ultimate authority to decide matters of law Well, yeah, look at who trump has surrounded himself. I mean these are hucksters. Yeah, it's scary to me I mean the things that have been said by You know, they don't help him either I hope that he realizes that steven miller said about the second travel ban. It's the same policy We're just using Technical differences and you know that helped to tank in the courts because you can't trick and banon statements have also been very disturbing Banon statements have been disturbing. However Flynn is gone most of the military Men he surrounded himself with Are patriots, right? They do understand The role of the military I think so. I mean, I you know, I don't I don't know for sure, but I I hope so. Certainly it's fundamental to the constitutional system that the military is under civilian control and that civilians are Behold into the law of the land the united states constitution But trump, you know, he he said some things during the campaign many things that were very disturbing when it came to our fundamental system So it's a question of whether or not he'll evolve and really hope that he does for the country's sake Posse combatatus This is not my right. Yes. Yeah, that's why the military didn't go into New Orleans in right 2005 during the flooding And then they eventually did but yeah, I mean the general principle that you know, I think the topic evokes Is that we you know, we have a federal system and there are some matters that are local and some that are national And so we have local police force is not a national police force And one thing that he's doing that is very scary is looking for undocumented people in order to deport them That that is not our national police force and there's some worry that um, he has this nationalist police idea in mind It's not technically The military but it's a deeper principle of federalism that says That you know, there are some local matters and some national ones and certainly the local police Handling local crime is one. Yeah, what is a federalist and are you slowly becoming one? um Well, the federalist is actually that to it but there's a modern society called the federalist society and Some of those people defend an idea of states rights and I disagree with the federal society on many issues but I Certainly think that part of our constitutional system is allowing for local control of some issues So when trump threatens to revoke money to sanctuary cities I say there's a requirement in our constitutional law that says you can't coerce Cities into doing the federal government's bidding on matters that it has otherwise no control over So I think that's unconstitutional also. I think it's very important that He lacks the ability to commandeer control local agencies like local police forces And so when they say they refuse to cooperate in his immigration policies, they are in very very strong constitutional ground And that there is overlap there between my views and and those of some conservatives before trump when obama was president Would you have been such a? proponent of states rights i'm being serious Yeah, no, I know it's the main question that I get about this specific issue and yes, I mean I've been working on a On papers arguing that There's a way for liberals to think about federalism That is different from the way conservatives think about it And you have to acknowledge that there's a terrible history of using States rights to resist federal civil rights Role of the federal government is to protect according to the 14th amendment individual rights But at different points in history, this is one of them that there have been others Think of the federal instance think of the in the 18 The very end of the 18th century criticism of the president nationally Those were violations of individual rights and in the absence of a federal government Protecting individual rights, which they didn't in those cases I think the states were absolutely right to step in and that's the period in history We're in now that uh when the federal government is attacking individual rights The states have an obligation to come out because this is a a It's not a parliamentary system. It's a binary. It's a binary system So the evolution of american history because it's binary is Eventually I bring you down with your argument. I become you in order to defeat you. So there's that famous poster of the evolution of the republican and democratic party and it's like a dna Helix they become each other and the republicans Become democrats democrats become republicans and i'm becoming a states rights person. Are you Almost getting a whiff of patriotism. I would assume you're a patriot as am I I would assume you believe in the genius of our founding fathers And yes, and not because they figured out a way to keep their slaves. I know that you're not making a joke I apologize. That was rude but the If you're not a if you're watching the news in a bubble just observing the united states And you're not a woman. You're not a homosexual. You're not an arab. You're not mexican. You're not a child. You're not a Muslim you're you're just a white heterosexual christian Who doesn't have kids so you don't have to worry about climate change if you're just observing this with no skin in the game And it's white skin if it were in the game You would say hey, you know the system works The beauty of the beauty of the constitution is that they're kind of slowing trump down. This is pretty good I'm impressed. Is there a little part of you? You know in the in the ivory towers Saying hey, you know what it's really the system really works. They're slowing trump down Oh, yeah, I mean, I you know, it's not just a part of me I think that this is a constitutional crisis that trump has pushed things and said things that really cut to the heart of Our system of governance and what we were talking about before the challenges to the judiciary are up there But also passing order based on animus towards muslims is a core violation of our first amendment Free exercise and establishment and equal protection rights So he's doing things that cut to the heart of the meaning of the founding Document and so when courts push back absolutely. I mean I applaud them. They need to be celebrated for Defending the constitution against somebody who doesn't understand the system and at times. I worry really doesn't care Yeah, so let me let me language is very important especially in law And I always hear the term constitutional crisis the patriot act was a constitutional crisis the fees of courts were kind of watergate was a constant and as a parent When i'm in charge of my when I was my kids have grown up When my kids were misbehaving it wasn't a crisis. It was a teaching opportunity. Don't we need to reframe This from now on instead of saying it's a constitutional crisis. It's a constitutional teaching opportunity Well, I think we have to stop referring to it as a crisis Was just a teaching opportunity This is different. It's not about a specific piece of legislation. It's about an administration that's shown Hostility to the system as a whole It started with the campaign Where the statements repeatedly were so hostile to values of free speech. He said about liable to The freedom of religion and the first amendment Pre-exercise and establishment think of the changing the libel laws the president So that's what's made what makes it a crisis. You need a I think you need a muscular approach To teaching I really do There's no question it's a teachable moment and it is an educational opportunity, but uh, you know, I don't know it's uh Learning by fire or I'm not sure what the expression is learning with uh Equivalent to throwing somebody who can't swim in the pool And survive it of course and I think the system is winning out and it is working I wouldn't wish upon anybody. I don't think like this the hostility from the executive branch towards the Lady justice needs to grow a pair and I mean, you know the courts I want to you know, just say again that The courts the ninth circuit the hawaii court um in or again Um, uh, sorry in uh, Washington that these courts have been stepping up and doing their duty And I think it's not easy for these judges have to keep in mind the act Let's get back to neil gorsuch. I I apologize. I went off. No, I I'm happy to talk about anything You you made a big mistake coming on my show. So I'm loving it Okay, but I'm Once you get to know me It gets really bad So let's talk about oberg afell that was passed in 2015 And We have come to believe that Same-sex marriage now is safe That it's never going to be questioned. The entire country has moved on Is that true you say that in his doctorate? thesis dissertation that neil gorsuch Is opposed to same-sex marriage based on natural law. What is that? What is natural law? I mean Yeah, I mean, it's not just a statement. It's part of his overall view That um, one of the things uh, that matters in um thinking about Policy but also as I would also in thinking about the constitution Is this theory of natural law now? He's not making this theory up himself. He's taking it the most famous Defender of this view And what the view stresses is that there are some Basic goods and these basic goods It's the role of government. I hear bright bar people Natural law that there are certain rights and privileges that are not granted by government But by god herself Is that what natural laws? It's a um Partly I think the idea of natural law theory is certainly that god might be the source Of natural law, but it's essential to the view That it also be discernible By reason and by independent. Um, is that something that comes from the enlightenment? Is that something jefferson and lock believed in? Natural law believe I don't think in the version that gorsuch is defending But certainly they were steeped in the theory of john lock, which is very different The natural law theory that gorsuch is using comes from thomas equinas. And as I said is defended by this modern thinker Um, uh, john finnis john locks view wasn't a view just of natural law But more specifically of natural us of natural Liberty and property and alienable rights. Yeah, was equine was equinist with the catholic church. Was that his expertise yes, he um He uh, was a catholic one of the most uh, important and influential catholic theologians So this is but was he also a lawyer? Um, he was a natural lawyer I mean, he's writing on the american son, but he's a thinker of garrots Do we have to worry about catholics? setting up Natural law zones the way muslims are setting up sharia law zones Can I can I wander into a community in america and suddenly find myself? Under the no, I don't I don't think it's that kind of you. I mean, I'm joking. I'm joking. Okay So no, I told you I would you do the jokes. I'll do the serious responses Um, yeah, no they they think that he thinks that this view that I gave you of promoting goods And he's skeptical of the idea for instance of this is an intimate matters is how he puts it and that leads him to the discussion of gay rights and abortion But that skepticism he thinks isn't based in religion It comes from reason. He says so he tries in the dissertation to not he's not citing the bible He's just giving arguments for why um This idea of individual choice and intimate matters is And natural so What I love about your writing and You have this great article in time magazine and there's going to be an article by the time this is Out on the air in the new york times and you're a teacher besides being a great legal mind you teach You even put up with idiots like me You you talk us through Uh gorsuch's dissertation and in time magazine you talk us through Gorsuch's dissertation and how it's possible for him to arrive at an opposition to same-sex marriage using kind of a natural law perspective What is griswold versus connecticut would he this was passed in 65 would he have approved with gorsuch approve griswold Would he that was a supreme court decision? What did griswold what did it establish and what would believers in natural law Say to griswold say about us. Yeah um, the opinion is the basis for the modern right, uh, the right to for instance The right to abortion and griswold itself is all based on the use of contraception even for married couples and a married couple Served as a basis for the litigation And what the court said is not just that this was a bad law but that it violated the fundamental Right to privacy or the right as it became known to make choices and intimate matters Established by the liberty provision and in the constitution's 14th amendment And the liberty provision is found elsewhere. They said too it's found throughout the document So this is a case about um return griswold versus connecticut But yes, I think that his matter of precedent, you know, I'm not I'm not sure about that That's something that I think it's really important to uh, have him confronted by the judiciary committee about okay We're talking with cory brett schneider. He's a professor of political science at brown university He's the author of when the state speaks. What should it say? How democracies can protect expression and promote equality So then in his dissertation and gorsuch's dissertation he's up for Antonin scolias seat and the judiciary committee is holding hearings Judiciary committee is holding hearings all this week To get to the bottom of uh, neil gorsuch's Judicial philosophy in plan parenthood v kasey in 1992 You say that's the next That's the next uh precedent upon which he would build his opposition to same-sex marriage Or would he just be a poet? I mean there are important cases in between There's a case called eisenstadt about individual rights to use contraception There's a row versus weight of course about the right to an abortion And then kasey was sort of a modern case More modern case about whether a row was correct and whether really this entire doctrine of the right to make Constitutional right to make intimate choices or the doctrine of privacy Was a good one Now he's very very critical to say the least of kasey as was justice scalia who didn't like this So where he adds his oppositing scalia, but he he is very hot He says in fact that the idea the argument is so bad for individual choice and kasey That the only way to understand it is that what he calls us that it's really just an affirmation of the reason So kasey's independent reasoning is so so bad. What does starry diseases mean? It just means let this decision stand and it's the principle that the supreme court sometimes Often uses which is that it decides future cases by often certainly. So how would you like starry? I apologize to my listeners and not at all. This is great starry diseases. So you would say How would you use that in a sentence like if I were to say to my kids? Well, when you were her age, I didn't allow you to Watch tv after 10 p.m. So starry diseases dictates that no child gets to watch Is that how it works? Very good perfect Better than I could have done Really? I mean how serious is that how is that so in other words, you're letting I mean, it's you know, they're legal decisions So as a parent your child can come back and say well, that seems silly Go that it there's a what a philosopher called a legal philosopher called ronald working called integrity that there's a consistency Over time that's a fundamental idea and think of why that matters the things like predicting whether or not you're doing something illegal How would you do that if the court was going to erratically decide cases? Having said that the court usually tries to be consistent It usually does but certainly lower courts are required to do this They can't just see a supreme court justice is special because you can and the court in fact often in important moments has Reversed the previous cases. So think of brown versus board of ed What was significant about it is that it reversed years and years of precedent saying that Segregation was constitutional because separate is Equal and brown said no did overturn plus ever right versus Ferguson. Yep Yes, that's correct. Plus he is the the precedent but equal and Stary decisis kept that as the law of the land until it was overturned in the brown decision Right and and and okay. Good. That's interesting. So how much of this Is pulling things out of your proverbial arse not you How much they call it stary diseases? You know because that sounds better. It's like Corinthian leather, which is you know That sounds good. No, it's just leather. So for example As I recall the solicitor general who argued in favor of obama care before the roberts court Was a disaster and that roberts had to do the work For him to keep oba to keep the mandate to keep the The public mandate that you had to buy health insurance because roberts While he is a republican he has small kids and he's thinking about the future and he's got a conscience So he came up with the idea For the solicitor general. That's the guy who's arguing on behalf of obama care He came up with the idea that obama care that the mandate was a tax Yeah, he pulled out. I was in the brief. I mean, I think the solicitor general should say did a fine job in the In the obama care decision. I mean what roberts did was a slide move is how I would put it I don't think it was a good thing He did save the mandate by saying it was a tax exactly as he said But by saying what he also said is that there was no commerce clause Justification for obama care. He really threatened to undercut And this is going to be a big deal on the hearings too, although it's a more obscure topic He threatened to undercut the basis of Lots of what the federal government Does so think of the existence of food from different restaurants is that there's a national You know, there's a risk that that opinion is I think the solicitor general the tax argument did save The case he did brief it is my understanding, but he was right. I think to emphasize the I guess what I'm getting at is the supreme court justices like to be cute that in the end Some of us some of us who aren't lawyers some of us who are just regular Joes like me Think that these guys put on a robe and they sit on this marble bench And they're really paying attention To the They're just paying attention to the weather vane. For example, the burger court with roe v. Wade Was the burger court court that legalized or said that abortion Cannot be prevented Weren't they being cute when they said right to privacy? Weren't they looking for something To come out of no, excuse me for one second Professor excuse me for one second for one second. Yes. I am a Comedian and a comedy writer and you will show me the respect I Sir, I apologize I write I didn't mean to heckle Professor, excuse me for one second I write for triumphance alchemic dog. Now, I know I've watched him anytime I would never mess with triumph. I assure you sir. If you do not show me the respect I so richly I assure you and triumph. I will show the respect You should be accorded at my peril We are talking with kori bretschneider. He's professor of political science at brown university the author of when the state speaks What should it say how democracies can protect expression and promote equality his current article in time magazine is entitled neil Neil gorsuch's dissertation opposes same-sex marriage. It's a great read because It not all well, it just teaches you. He's a teacher, which is why he's putting up with me so I the point i'm making is When the courts Rule in favor of same-sex marriage It's basically Their attempt to find Stereo-decesis. I know i'm not pronouncing basically properly. I apologize Uh stare. How is it pronounced stare? What is it? Stereo-decesis? Stereo-decesis They're looking they're rummaging through their bag of tricks To You know, I guess I I don't think so. I the way I think of it. I understand that people think that and there's disagreement But we have to we have to see is that a lot of these cases are hard cases That people who are all acting with good faith to try to really figure out what the document means the justices for instance typical affiliation or partisan affiliation The judge the president that they were appointed to and that's fundamental to the That even though I've criticized the current nominee that were he appointed to the court on some matters He would stand up to the president that appointed him and there's a long tradition of that And the reason for that is that these are just they're not politicians They're People who are charged with a very difficult task which is to interpret a document that was written a very long time ago that uses very broad and vague language and they have a hard task to try to figure out the meaning of that language and also how Our current cases fit into this very long and important tradition of law So, you know, it's just a hard job, frankly and uh, you know, I think that the people on the court Although they're often criticized are doing their best to To do their constitutional duty. So you hope Gorsuch is blocked You're listening to the david feldman radio program You said pathetic hump. You've been very generous with your time and putting up with my pleasure This is nothing more important to me than talking about this to a wide audience Well, I'm a fool and and you indulge me, but you're a good teacher My experience doing john show and knowing you and having done it, you know, a few times is that Comedians are the people in the world now who know how to get massive amounts of attention to really get people to focus And so This is, you know, bill mar use comedy to try to get people to pay attention to serious issues I I feel like that's, you know, what's more important than that A lot of this stuff the commerce clause, you know, people find it boring. So there's nothing better than Mixing it up the smartest people I know other than actual professors are comedians and comedy writers because Time we have time we have time we have time. We're on the road and we read Yeah, yeah, and uh, I mean people who go into it. I think and the kind of quickness and the values But you know, I love her and my wife and I, you know, are really into the new york comedy See, you know, what's exciting about it is That was a moment up with the audience and you know, to me, that's the rawest form of intelligence that there is You went to princeton in stanford. So you're According to mom and dad the real deal So, you know, you made your parents proud although I would assume if you went to stanford law and you Teach at brown I think my dad wanted me to be a comedy writer. Yeah, that was something he thought about I'm not joking actually He grew up on jack bar and you know all this Kind of amazing comedy and sit sees her was the first book I ever read Cover to cover with sit see this is a autobiography. Where have I been? You know what? We have to get back to the constitutional But where have I been his autobiography sit sees her's autobiography for you young kids sit sees her was the emperor of Comedy and when he crossed the rubicon he was stabbed in the back By lauren swelke of all people He the show I was just going for a weird analogy He was eventually lauren swelke got bigger ratings than sit sees her and Your show I think I was in fourth grade when I read it. So maybe it was a little early But I remember I wrote a full report and you know, I was hooked after that Well, let me tell you what sit sees her's book Did for me. I read it while I began doing comedy I was an alcoholic and a pod head at the time And he outlines and where have I been why he became a drug addict the pressures of Live television of performing every night and how he ended up sleepwalking through about 30 years of his career Nathan Lane played him and the neil simon Play about Sit sees her and it's it's Heartbreaking my favorite year, right? Yeah. No, no, no, that was different. It was like laughter on the something something Floor, right. Okay. So my favorite years more based on this life, right? I think it's laughter on the 22nd floor I think it's 22nd. Anyway, it's Nathan really captured if you a showtime did a a movie version of The play and it's heartbreaking But it taught me because I was just starting out when the book came out and I said I will never ever perform high or drunk because of This book and I made a decision. I'm going to get off Alcohol and pot and whatever pills I was taken because of this and and the pressures that Everybody is under Anyway, that being said It's a powerful power. I still remember a powerful book and his son became a doctor Who treated him and he would only go I remember this what I also remember from the book He would only see a psychiatrist if he wasn't charged for it Mm-hmm. He couldn't he would not trust a psychiatrist since he's or would not trust a psychiatrist Unless the psychiatrist was truly looking out for his best And and that by that he couldn't charge said that was bizarre. I think that one. I don't know about I remember that's the best way to go about I know Speaking of professional services, do you do do you do divorce work? I have a question to ask you This is serious. This is a constitutional question. Okay, and and so I'm going through divorce attorneys. I'm now on to my fourth Divorce attorney, and I'm not taking advantage of you. I'm not exploiting you. I have a genuine constitutional question to ask you Uh, I have zero respect for divorce attorneys. I think it's a rigged system I think they're not bright. They have privatized my right to a Trial they made it prohibitive. They made it financially prohibitive For a divorced couple or a couple that's trying to divorce to go before a judge. They've rigged the system You know For a guy like you law is a sport It has to be because it can't be emotional for divorce attorneys. It's canned hunting It's setting a man and a woman free on this enclosed space and then They get their trophy and and they go back and forth the two lawyers go back and forth and so they both agree they've Exhausted whatever money the couple had that is the business model Of divorce attorneys. So I'm going through a lot of divorce attorneys because they have this Game where they you give them a retainer and they wind it down and then when you when the retainer is at zero And you call the lawyer to ask What did I get from my retainer? They resort to verbal gymnastics to To say Well, you're being very difficult. There's been a breakdown in communications We have to let you go and they have it down to a science They have a Boiler plate letter. I've gone through four divorce attorneys. It's the same letter due to a breakdown of attorney client Communications We can no longer represent you in this case because the retainer's over with and I asked Questions that they couldn't answer. They're ashamed to say to say face They use these same Rhetorical devices that are straight out of the third grade. So What I have been doing Is you cannot report a divorce attorney to the bar association because they police their own Well comedy writers police their own so what I've been doing is I have been photoshopping my divorce attorney And And roasting him publicly sending emails to the firm I should say too, you know, I'm a scholar of constitutional law Here's my question Here's my question. Here's my question professor. Here's my question. Let's get it together get it back together But here's my constitutional question okay Because my lawyer the current one or the the one who just ran down the retainer Appears on entertainment tonight and access Hollywood and opines on really important legal decisions like the pit jolly divorce He's he is a public figure is that correct? Not him. I'm not putting you in a corner in other words. Am I in other words if I photo you're worried about the libel Yeah, I can't give you legal advice. I mean that is the question That's one of the issues and figuring out whether there's a you have a sort of first amendment protection would be to figure out whether or not a hypothetical person that Wanted to sue you whether or not that person was a public Okay, uh legal advice. I mean your other point that that does bear I think that I do have something to say that which is really important in not necessarily in the divorce context But is the sort of disappearance out where a plea bargaining has really replaced trials in such a huge Number of cases and I do think that's a um, you know, it's the general issue Litigation at plea bargaining work works in this trial. We have a constitutional right to a trial but the lawyers have Purposely figured out a way to to privatize it to make it prohibitive For yeah, right. No, you're right because they have built they they want to they have bills to pay Which amendment is it that guarantees a right to a trial six amendment guarantees The q shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial. That's the sixth amendment of the constitution. Yeah One final question on the divorce. I'm right and she's wrong, right? My wife is wrong, right? You side you're siding with me, right? I take no position. I'm sure that you're both terrific people and then smart. You can't imagine Wait, wait, would you professor doctor? How long have we known each other an hour? Yeah, okay. We met on the show. We met on fugl. We met on john fugl saying show. Yeah, that kind of do you find me emotionally distant No, wrong about that. All right. And you and you know now i'm involved And it is in a divorce somebody does win, right? Correct. Well, you've been very generous with your time and you'll come back, right? Absolutely. Oh, I love this and i'm uh, you know, I just meant that what I showed you know, what a powerful combination to get people interested and um And uh, you know, it's just great to do this Well, one of the reasons and i'm a fan of your show for real Oh, thank you. I am you know in general is you know, a big figure in my life Well, it's all me and not robert smigel And it's i'm He just I i'm i'm kidding. It's pretty good too. Yeah smigel is pretty great One of the reasons I do well with uh people who teach at brown whenever I interview a professor brown I pet Buddy seance's toupee When he died, he let he left me his toupee in his will. I'm joking. Do you remember buddy seance? Is anybody gonna make a movie in providence is knows and frankly is haunted by Buddy Somebody should do a movie about you know, he's sort of a predecessor of trump really. I mean the um I don't know. I mean I have friends who expect for the dead but there was I would say a um Ship that didn't show always respect for people compare the two I think not not totally out of the question. I think buddy had a better toupee Yeah, I think buddy's actually I didn't think of that there was a sort of strange hair thing going on Why has nobody written a book about buddy seance or they or have they oh there have oh, there's a great book the prince of uh providence Oh, I'm gonna read by the reporter that covered them. Uh, it's it's terrific When was that is that is that a modern book because he goes back 40 years? Yeah, it covers this whole career the prince of providence amazing. I highly recommend it to you and to your listeners That you know what somebody should write a Make a movie on that I have to look at because his I've heard I keep hearing that they are doing one But I I don't obviously it hasn't come out. But um, you know the tv show Well, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna pitch. I'm gonna get the rights to prince of providence Oh, yeah, and take it to hollywood and pitch it as a buddy movie as a buddy as a buddy get it a buddy Yeah, they see there. I got it. It's a buddy movie. It's his buddy though His hair is to pay his to pay he and his to pay Now that's something I would like At least in providence that would really do well a talking to pay that talks to him It has eyes and you know when it closes its eyes It's just hair, right? Yeah, and when he closes its mouth, it has eyes and a mouth But when it closes his eyes and his mouth, you can't see that The jeez am I like there for that something like the birth of triumph is this how it happens? I think this is I think there gets formed. I think this is an actual idea where buddy sian say Has it to pay that has an eye if you have two eyes and a mouth And when the eyes and the mouth are closed, it's just a to pay So it keeps its eyes and its mouth shut when it's in public, but when buddy is alone Then the I mean shouldn't it be a trump thing to keep a contemporary that it would be trump's hair Sort of is a character of its own. Well, you want this to be successful? Who do you? Who do you think you're talking to I have every idea I have That I've any idea I've ever sold has been a complete and utter failure. So why would you try? Yeah, but I didn't sell that I'm a gun for writing. I'm a gun for hire on that one, but any idea I have must fail It is so written Well, isn't that like a lot of great? I mean, that's the whole premise of Seinfeld, isn't it? Yeah, the show about nothing that's supposed to fail. Yeah, that's the story So we're gonna end on two positive notes. One is you'll come back Please. Yes, I'd love it. What's more fun than that? Honestly. Yeah, you're a teacher. You know my sit Caesar store But you're a teacher and and teachers are the most important Right now especially We all have to be teachers even people like me who are morons. We have to teach not fight Yeah, and I think, you know, it's the obligation of citizens to try to learn about Things that they don't know about and you know, I don't want to do it in a pedantic way But one thing that I've been trying to devote myself to doing on On john show on a show that I do in new england is to try to Just talk in very clear terms about what the constitution means what it requires and why in in Potential crisis mode because there's been an attack on it by the now president of the united states, right? And I'm gonna push back on that And say it's not you want to call it a crisis. It's an opportunity. It's a teaching moment teachable I think I guess I we're in heated agreement in this. I think So it wasn't done this way. I would prefer a simulation to Actual okay, so before you go and I'm being serious here, you know, I'm being very serious My wife was a jerk to me wasn't no, uh, I'm sorry. I can't help it Before you go I have and I hate to sound You know, this is delusions of grandeur Some would call a paranoid schizophrenia for me to say this but there's an army of listeners right now who are Depressed and ready to strike out. We're all feeling paralyzed Angry and depressed and the and the mission of this show right now Is the following? This is my mission That I want my listeners to stop fighting with the other side I want them to focus on an outcome and that outcome that outcome would be winning back the house Yeah in the next two years And instead of trolling people on facebook instead instead of fighting with their crazy uncle Just try to get these people to stay home on election day. That's all you have to do. I'm being serious That's the outcome so that when you so how what advice and this is my last question Yeah, you are a progressive liberal, but you're a teacher at brown university and you teach you have rich Children in your classroom who are entitled who are insensitive Who are probably have parents who voted for trump? You have a But you have to teach how do my listeners teach the other side gently without rage Without malice with just the benign intent to make sure If they don't agree with you to stay home on election day Yeah, I got first I I think that you know leaving people with something to do and to not despair is so Important and there is no reason to despair because we do have a system that has shown itself to be very strong And we just have to start to make use of it and absolutely one way is to think about this next Rep this next time at the house and a third of the senate come up for election and to involve ourselves in That election and then I think too on your your main point That the way to be a good teacher frankly and but people have real deeply about the principles of the united states constitution and The well-being of the population as a whole and what's fundamental for us is to Take seriously each other's arguments and to not just shout each other down and to do what we've been doing today in the culture now that cuts against that, you know the sort of Soundbite and you know, we also have to make room for Reason discussion and discourse and I think the key to that is is really It's very simple. It's it's being a good listener. That's what it is to be smart It's what it is to do politics well And I think we all need to to learn to do it more and that's what prevents a divorce Is seriously, I'm just not going there. No, no, I'm serious Can't give you legal advice, don't break this law, but but things are dry No, no, what I'm saying is that the ability to communicate properly to hear and listen Yeah, absolutely. That's what a strong marriage is of course and friendship and You know the early existence that's of a high quality is to be able to communicate and And to and to listen would you agree that she didn't know how to listen and communicate? Would you Like did I say anything So and and and finally this is the addendum when a married couple gets divorced professor There is a winner and there is a loser, correct? And when you and when you argue with your wife, right No, but if you've been a moment when she has not been when you argue with your wife professor Do you resort to starey diseases? Do you win all your arguments based on? Honestly in personal matters, I do defer my wife is a lot I think female divorce attorneys are more vicious than male divorce attorneys because this you don't have to comment on this But you know, you don't have to You don't have to comment, but you can you can chime in if you want. This is my experience I'm on to my fourth or fifth or whatever. I can't I've lost count but The females are more vicious because there's no violence in them. It's all in the mind When it's you know, male divorce attorneys shout and there's always this alpha dog thing going on But female divorce attorneys, it's all in the mind and they're vicious David on all this, I get the whole divorce discussion this one every just to kind of clarify I have one statement about all of that and that is no comment So you're saying I had my wife not comment on me all the time and criticize me So you're so you're siding with me professor. You're saying that a wife should not comment on the Professor Cory Brett Schneider first of all, you know, I'm going to give you the greatest compliment I possibly can and that is to thank john fugal saying Had I not done john fugal saying show on serious xm. Tell me everything. I never would have met you You're very generous. You were sitting around with a bunch of comedy writers and comedians And you were funny and you were patient with us and you're a great teacher You have a terrific article in time magazine this week, which everybody should read Download subscribe to time magazine because of it. It's entitled Neil Neil Gorsuch's dissertation opposes same-sex marriage I also believe you're going to have a article with new york times my Talmud later in the week and you also teach constitutional law at brown university and your latest book Is available on amazon or wherever Find books are sold. It's in it's called when the state speaks. What should it say? How democracies can protect expression and promote equality? In all seriousness, it was an honor for you to be on my show. I know it meant a lot to you I told you I'm a fan of comedy and I take the compliment but I also Want to pay it back. I want my mother to hear it again. Let's have a shy telling a serious xm Do we should have our own show? I know I hope you learned something from me professor. I did I have learned from triumph often Thank you, sir. Thank you for that really. Thanks again and let's do it soon. Yes, absolutely. Thank you From the show briz studios in downtown Manhattan that'll do it for us