 there are ways in which we can tilt the odds in our favor. It gets back to something that Bill Miller talked to me many years ago where the reason Bill Miller was able to buy 15% of Amazon at a time when the company seemed to be going bankrupt to most people was because... I was really curious about this question. So I caught your podcast and you are mentioning that in 2021 you were invited into this Zoom call with Charlie, with Lou Simpson, with Chris Davis, with I don't know who else. Chris wasn't there but there was a guy called Mark Nelson who's a famous Australian investor, a great Australian investor. Yeah, it was an amazing experience. I've realized and you mentioned that your book was actually the homework. What I just wanted to understand was did Manga has this weekly calls with various investors and what was the point of the book being a homework? Was it just to cover each other's blind spots, to discuss investment opportunities or what kind of Zoom call was that? Well, Manga I think had already read the book because Monish had sent him a copy but I think Manga had even forgotten that I'd ever interviewed him. I mean, Manga has so many people coming at him and this was like a small interview and so he loved the book but he was like, who the hell is this guy? I can't really remember him. And so this friend of his who was on the weekly call, this venture capitalist, contacted me and arranged for me to come on the call and to be a guest speaker. And so yeah, I guess I'm not sure that whether I don't think Louis Simpson would necessarily have read the book otherwise. And so you know, Louis Simpson had run GEICO and was this legendary investor. And so yeah, I guess it meant that they could then chat about the book and explore these themes. So it kind of gave leaping off point to have a discussion about investing in life. But I think what's really very revealing is that Manga who was then probably 98 and was pretty immobile, couldn't get around very easily, had structured his life so that he was surrounded by friends who were smart and interesting and engaged and who continued to talk to him about subjects that he found energizing. And so in a way there's something very important about that insight that it wasn't just about wealth maximization. His life was full of these rich relationships and this continuous learning, right? He prays Buffett for being a continuous learning machine. And so in a way those breakfasts are a perfect example of here's a guy in the middle of COVID. How is he going to have company, have a social life? He said to me, I got on about five minutes early because I knew he always started any, he always arrived for any meeting early. And so as a result, I was on my own with him at the start. And he said to me, I said something like, you know, it's wonderful to be here with you. And he said something slightly facetious and morbid about how at my age, it's kind of wonderful to be anywhere, you know, like just to be anywhere is pretty good. And then he said being, he said Zoom has been enormously helpful to me. And so, you know, I think it's just a small point. But I sometimes think about, you know, my book group and I'm like, God, it's sort of pain in butt arranging these meetings. And, you know, I'm rereading Proust for the book group because we only read classic fiction. And, and it's like, I emailed everyone a couple of days ago and said, should we meet in this restaurant next week and not single one of these people is bothered to reply to me. And there's part of me that's like, why am I doing this? I'm like too busy, I got too many things to do anyway. And then I'm like, no, but I get to sit down with a bunch of really interesting, really nice authors, among other things, most, most of them are authors, and chat about great fiction while going, you know, eating good food and drinking good wine. That's, that's very central to a rich life. And so in a way, you know, when in a way, I'm cloning manga there because when I was younger, I was so busy just trying to succeed that I really let a lot of my relationships wilt on the vine. Because I used to, I used to live in Hong Kong. And so from about 2001 to 2006, I was at Time Magazine in Hong Kong. And initially, as the deputy editor, and then as the editor of the Asian edition of Time. And so you can imagine, it was just an insane work life. I mean, I was just working constantly. So to invest a lot in relationships was really hard. And then I went to London to edit the European, Middle East and African edition of Time. If you're working 70, 80 hours a week, and you're trying to get ahead and you're in a very competitive work environment, very hard to have rich relationships. And now, I think partly because I see these great investors structuring their lives so that relationships and continuous learning are central, I've managed to kind of justify it to myself. And then, you know, for me, I feel a lot of guilt often that I spend so much time studying spiritual stuff like Kabbalah and Tibetan Buddhism and reading fiction. And I've sort of weirdly, it's turned out not to be a digression. It's weirdly turned out to be very central to what I do. Because you're able, there's a very good writer and thinker, a guy called Josh Waitskin, who wrote a book called The Art of Learning. It's a terrific book. And the movie Searching for Bobby Fisher is actually about him. He was the chess prodigy that that was based on. And he talks about this phrase thematic interconnectedness. And I find that a lot that when you study a different field like spirituality, or history, or economics, or whatever, not that I ever study economics, you occasionally buy an economics book, but then I don't read it. But the, but when you study different fields, you discover this thematic interconnectedness. So you find a principle in one area. And this is something that Mungo did a lot. And then you can apply it elsewhere to even something like the concept of margin of safety. That's an idea that comes from engineering, but Ben Graham and then Buffett and Mungo and Howard Marks and all these other great investors brought it into the world of value investing. And so the ability to read broadly in a way that seems kind of aimless turns out to be an incredibly rich habit. So I mean, I, you know, I'm rereading Proust and you read, you know, in search of lost time, which is, you know, one of the greatest novels of all time, it's 4000 pages, I think. And to this time around, I'm about 500 pages in and I've twice failed before once and I was about 18, I got 1000 pages in. Then when I was 40, I got three and a half thousand pages in. And, and this time, I don't know how much I'll read, but I'm nearly 500 pages in. And there's a part early on where you're seeing this, this extraordinary character Charles Swan, who's a very central character in the novel. And you see everybody judging him and constructing his personality through different lenses of some view him differently because he's Jewish, some view him differently because he's a legendary art collector, some view him differently because he's a legendary womanizer. So, you know, like they're all kind of piecing together his character. And you realize that his character is not a stable, solid entity that's one thing. And that has huge ramifications, both for investing and everything else, because you start to think, well, what is this thing that I'm studying? Like, like, is it a stable? Does it have a clear identity? And this gets back, I mean, it sounds crazy, but as Manga said, everything is one damn relatedness after another. It gets back to something that Bill Miller taught me many years ago where the reason Bill Miller was able to buy 15% of Amazon at a time when the company seemed to be going bankrupt to most people was because he'd studied philosophy. And he said he would look at Amazon and he'd say, well, everybody is misperceiving it. They don't understand what Amazon really is. They look at this company in the rubble after the tech bubble, after the internet bubble of 1999, 2000, 2001 had kind of burst. They look at it and they're like, well, here's this crappy company that's going to go bankrupt, that's money losing, that's run by a billionaire who took advantage of all of us and then vaporized our money. And he's like, look at it. And because I studied Wittgenstein, William James, all these great philosophers, and I've obsessed with perception, how to perceive reality clearly, I look at it and I say, well, what really is Amazon? And he says, well, it's an extremely profitable company with a cost advantage, but those profits are not yet visible because they choose to keep reinvesting the money in the business to build a greater competitive advantage. So it seems to be unprofitable. It seems to be money losing, but in the long run, it'll turn out to be extremely profitable. And so his, his variant perception, his ability to see reality more clearly enabled him to make this enormous winning bet on Amazon and which is held, you know, for more than two decades. So he said to me at one point, he'd talked to Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon. He said, is your proxy statement accurate? And Bezos was like, yeah. And he said, well, in that case, I own more Amazon personally than anybody else in the world, any other individual, not named Bezos. This is before Bezos and Mackenzie, his wife divorced because she, she had more than more than Bill. But you know, so that ability to perceive reality more clearly than other people turned out to be, you know, this absolutely invaluable habit for Bill. He wasn't seeing it through these eyes of prejudice. When I'm reading Proust, I'm like, oh, that's, it's the same thing. It's like, look how they're constructing and distorting the personality of Charles Swann. They're looking at this guy and they're creating his personality. And you see it in these extraordinarily vivid ways, right? Like for, for he, you know, he famously falls in love with this woman who's basically, basically like a hooker, basically, she's a high class hooker who's taking advantage of his, of his wealth and influence and power. And at a certain point, the, the power equation switches because he's so obsessed with her that you have this woman who in certain parts of society has no power, no influence, no credibility. And she's totally dominating this guy who's like hanging out with the princes and princesses and, you know, is at the highest level of society. And so he is a different thing to her. You know, she's distorting who he is. He's distorting who she is. Everyone is, everyone's sort of creating their own reality. And so when you read literature, you start to be like, oh, it gives me a way of understanding these themes that run through everything else that I need to see clearly. And I need to understand my own prejudices, my own biases that it's, I'm not, I'm not, I shouldn't trust my own view of everything. And, and again, with this being one damn relationship after another, one of the things that manga and Buffett were doing was they had a partnership where the other one could challenge their views. And so in a world where most people are living in an echo chamber and everyone just wants to confirm what they already believed to be true, here are these two guys who structured their life so that someone would come in and challenge their views. So, you know, manga was a Republican, but who ends up voting for Hillary Clinton, you know, and switched his views on abortion. I mean, that's an extraordinary thing. How many people do you know who changed their views on something as fundamental as abortion? So that's someone who's very actively looking for disconfirming evidence, looking to challenge his own biases. And, and so that's something that I'm very, I'm very much trying to do in my own life to say, why, why do I believe that? And why do I assume that I'm right? Why, on what possible basis do I think that me with my little pea brain sitting here in Irvington, New York, viewing the world through this tiny narrow lens, why, why should I have some monopoly on truth? And so just to have that kind of open mindedness to say, let me, let me listen to other people, let me try to explore what other people think and let me challenge my own biases and prejudices. It's very, it's very helpful. So I think that's one thing that you get out of, out of reading literature, but it's also one thing you get out of studying, studying the great investors, that ability to open yourself up to disconfirm the evidence to look to ask yourself, why might I be wrong? Not, well, here's why, I know I'm right. And I'm going to tell you why I'm right. Like, what do I know? Very half of what I've told you is wrong. Sorry. I just don't know which half. Thank you. I mean, even, even something as fundamental as the question we asked before, where I said to Ed Thorpe, to believe in God, and he said no data, even something as fundamental as that people can't agree on. That's, that's a very, I mean, talk about things like the afterlife or reincarnation. I happen to believe in reincarnation, even something as fundamental as that. I mean, the, the, the catalysts and the Buddhists and, and the Hindus all seem to agree on this. A lot of people don't. So these very fundamental things like whether God exists, whether we're reincarnated, whether we get, you know, when people say, well, you only have one life. I'm like, really? How do you know? On what basis? Like these very fundamental central questions, you don't know. And even, you know, so that, that should lead to a little humility, right? To us, just being a little more humble about the limits of our own knowledge, and a little more tolerant of other people's views. You know, I, I can't say, you know, is, is Ed Thorpe the fool there? Or am I the fool there? And, and it's actually even more complicated than that, because I think we create our own reality. So, so, you know, our perception of things alters our reality. So when, when Charles Swan is looking at Odette, this woman who's basically a high class hooker and thinks she's the most precious beautiful woman on earth and has these rare qualities, he's creating that reality and he can't see what everyone else sees, which is that she's just doing this masterful job of exploiting him while sleeping with everyone else. You know, so we create our own reality. So, so Ed may in fact be right when he says there's no God. And I may be right when I say there's God, because we both created our reality. Like, so, so even for these, sorry, and I don't mean to go off on this weird digression, but, but it gives you a sense of just how little we really know. And so look at, look at someone like Sir John Templeton, you look at who I write about in I think chapter two of the book, his, his, his charitable foundation, I think the motto of the charitable foundation is something like how little we know how eager to learn. Why is that a good mindset for life? If you, if you, if you combine the humility to say I don't know, the habit of compounding knowledge, exploring things with an open mind, listening to other people, reading widely, it's a very powerful habit. That mindset is very powerful rather than like listen to me, I know. And that is really profound. It's like being humble at the same time, knowing that we could be wrong, but at the same time having the humility to keep on learning, knowing that we could be wrong. And if, if, like what you say, right, if we just cultivate that attribute, we just keep on going, keep on compounding that 1% every single day, right, we will be able to achieve the definition of success that we all have, which every one of us could be very different. Yeah. Or at least to take, to take Tom Gaynor's phrase, we can be directionally correct. So we, you know, it's not that we nail everything and we're perfect. Like I'm constantly screwing up and constantly falling off track and, and, but if you're directionally correct, if you've got a good target for, you know, this is, this is what constitutes a rich and abundant life for me. These are the habits. These are the inputs that are going to get me there, whether it's reading, compounding good will, saving, investing, living within your means, exercise, good nutrition, meditation, you know, or walking in nature to clear your mind or whatever it is. If you think of the destination, good destination, think of the inputs that are going to get you there. And then you keep compounding that stuff. And then as you screw up and you fall off track, you know, the thing that I keep saying to my kids again and again, I quote this, this great Western meditation teacher called Sharon Salzberg. And I, I, I ran into her a few months ago and I said to her, this has had a huge effect on me and my family. She would say, let go with self-compassion and begin again. So every time, you know, I have a 22 year old daughter, every time she, she is like despairing about herself in some way, she's screwed up in some way, she failed to get to a class because she's always late for everything as I am. And, and I said, I'll let go with self-compassion and begin again. And so, you know, you find these habits that are going to get you to a decent destination, but you also have to be aware that you're not going to do perfectly. You're going to screw up, you're going to fail, you're going to stumble, you're going to get knocked off course. And I think maybe that's been one of the most helpful things about sending a great deal of time with billionaires and famous investors and the like. And with a lot of very well-known authors who I get to spend a lot of time with is you, you see how screwed up so many of them are. And so you can see that you don't fall into the trap of idealizing people and think, oh, if only I could be so rich and so successful. It's like, no, they're a mess too. I see friends of mine who are well-known investors, they still have daughters with anorexia and bulimia and they still have wives who don't love them and, you know, who chase off after other men and they still have a temper and they still have blind spots and they still have ego. And I think that's very valuable because I tend to look at myself and be like, we're an idiot, you know. And, you know, I think, I mean, I don't know if you have this in, I suspect that maybe growing up in England, as I did, we were pretty brutal to ourselves. Like you learn to succeed by beating yourself up. And I think probably that's, for a lot of people in places like Singapore and Hong Kong and Tokyo, like a lot of Jewish families like mine, we succeeded by trying to please our parents, trying to please our teachers, beating ourselves up when we didn't do well, when we failed. And it's a, that approach works for a while. It can make you very successful, but it can't really make you happy. And so I think in a way you have to re-parent yourself and start to think, well, so is there a gentler, softer way that I can do it? Is there a kinder and more loving, self-compassionate way? And so, I mean, to me, recognizing the imperfection of a lot of these great investors, in a way, one of the lessons I'm trying to internalize is, well, they're imperfect. Why should I not be imperfect? Let me, when I screw up, it's not about giving myself a blank slate so I can be unethical and lie and cheat and be a bully or whatever. It's not like, oh, well, they're all flawed so I can be. It's more about when I do something that I'm embarrassed by or that I fail out or whatever, let go with self-compassion and begin again. And I think that that's a very powerful habit to adopt early on, to be kind to yourself, kind to others. And I would take on this idea of I should try to be kinder to others, but it was very, very hard for me to take on the idea of trying to be kind to myself. That's very hard. I mean, I don't know, is that something for you that's difficult culturally? Does that seem like not a way to approach life? I think, like what you said, because sometimes we grow up in this culture that success, especially monetary wise, academic wise is everything, that we end up being very harsh on ourselves. And that indirectly makes life become more miserable than it should be. So I think when what you share with me really reminds me to be grateful and celebrate that little success that we already have in life and then keep on learning, like what you say, humble ourselves that we don't know, we don't know what we don't know. And at the same time, keep on learning. And that's how we keep on improving. And that's how I think eventually we're able to love ourselves even more. Yeah. And in a way, I mean, I remember saying to my son at one point, I have a 25 year old son, it's really beautiful human being who's a teacher. And I said to him, just do a meditation where you kind of picture yourself as a baby or a little boy and you're kind of like cradling yourself. And, and you know, it's like you're, compassionate to yourself in that way. And he did it. And I think it was very moved by it. I think it was a weirdly emotional thing for him. Because it's like, you know, we're thrown into this world with no rules, we have no idea how to operate. We're born into weird families with weird, weird histories that have had to struggle and survive through incredibly difficult times. And so they had these sort of coping mechanisms that got them through but may not be particularly healthy, or maybe, or maybe they were very healthy to get us to a certain point, but then they stopped being helpful. So, you know, we have to in some way become our own parents and be like, how am I going to, am I going to find a better kind of wiser way through. And so for me, part of studying the great investors is a way of looking at these highly rational, highly intelligent, thoughtful people. There's a filter for looking at what works and doesn't work and why, which is again a phrase from Munga. Munga said, I look at what works and doesn't work and why. And so you look at a life like Munga's and you're like, all right, so lost his first son to leukemia at the age of nine, and it was just crushing. And he just cried all of the time, but and it cost him a fortune in terms of medical bills and he and his wife split up and he had no money and his life was a wreck. So you learn something about the importance of resilience, the fact that even in an incredibly successful life like that, where he lived to almost 100, is a legend and is widely beloved. And yet he still went through the ringer. He still had tremendous pain and suffering. And so you learn that resilience is going to be a really key part of any successful life. And so when he talks about refusing to indulge in self-pity, that's a huge learning from him. So when I'm looking at what works and doesn't work and why, I have to say, okay, so Munga's refusal to engage in self-pity, that works. The importance of building rich relationships, surrounding yourself with friends who, even when you're in mobile, get on a Zoom call with you every week and chat about the world. That works. That's rich, taming your own mind, getting equanimity. That's important. Exercise, things like that, to deal with stress. I mean, obviously, I don't need to talk to you, you're much better at exercise than I am. But it's in a way, it's like going through life, looking at this kind of buffet of options and being like, okay, I'll take a little bit of this, a little bit of that. I can see that I want to clone this from Munga, this from Monish, this from Tom Gaynor. And so, I mean, I would encourage you as you read the book, don't take a simple idea and take it seriously. Like when you find something that resonates deeply with you, think about how am I going to pound this into myself? How am I going to take this idea from a Munga or from a Monish or from a Nick Sleep? You know, if you take Nick Sleep's commitment to quality in the deepest sense of the word, in everything, and you make it a central tenet of your life, it will change your life. I mean, if you take the idea of compounding goodwill from Guy Spear and Tom Gaynor and you make it a central tenet of your life, it will change your life. Like these are very powerful habits and so there's a kind of lolapalooza effect to use another Munga term when you take several of these things and you add them together. And so these small things don't seem like such a big deal, but if say you're truthful, you operate with integrity, you're kind, you're compassionate, you have good habits like continuous learning, being open to disconfirming evidence, you add together things like that and it starts to become very powerful. It's the compounding effect over time of these powerful habits that add up. So the pompous phrase that I use that I stole from someone else from Sir David Brailsford is the aggregation of marginal gains. You find these things that give you a marginal advantage like, well, if I exercise or I meditate or I'm a continuous learning machine, that gives me a marginal gain. You add those things together, you aggregate them and it becomes overwhelming over time. Just like what William said, it's an ongoing journey. I keep on learning, keep on improving and I think the greatest takeaway for me in this interview is life is not just about richness in wealth, but holistically and kindness. To me, sometimes when I feel that, oh, when I need to give, my mindset would be like, oh, then what am I losing out? But you make me see that by giving, actually, there is so much more freedom and there's so much more abundance that I can cultivate inner peace or like my inner self. That is so beautiful. Thank you so much. I mean, you've tapped into a very profound and powerful secret that runs through, I mean, it goes back to the statement that this teacher of mine said, the big man is the small man and the small man is the big man, that it's like when the ego is small, when it's less about me, me, me, me, you smell that in someone. And so when you go have a meeting with someone and you realize they're looking to get something out of you and they're looking to get an edge on you in some way that they view life as a zero sum game and you have to lose for them to win or something, you smell it, I think. And you never want to deal with that person again. And when you meet people who view life more as an infinite game, there's not a winner or a loser. It's like we can all win. Let me show you, let me find ways to show you, let me find ways to help you. You see it with an Arnold Vandenberg, right, where for Arnold to have a successful life, it's a more successful life if he sees me happier and more successful. Like that gives him joy. I mean, there's a great Buddhist quality, right? Empathetic joy, to get empathetic joy out of other people's success. And so it's this great paradox that if you approach life more in that sense, and then you surround yourself with people who are giving and sharing and kind and compassionate, it starts to be this kind of, there's supposed to be this sort of benevolent effect, this kind of flywheel. And then it becomes kind of miraculous because instead of you having to watch yourself and be like, who's out to screw me, you're like, actually, like, you feel like the world is kind of a benevolent place. And you don't want to be naive about it. I mean, it's not about being stupid. I mean, I did an interview with Tom Gaynor on the podcast where we discussed this and it's worth listening to that because he would say, extend trust first, extend love first, and then see who reciprocates. And so if you extend love and trust first, and people take advantage of you, then you're like, okay, that's not a person I need to have in a really big way in my life. You know, if they're a family member, I'll see them, I'll talk to them. But, you know, it's not like the most important part of my circle. So you're not being naive, but you're building trust-based, love-based relationships, and then you're surrounding yourself with those people who treat you decently. And you look at, you look at Manga and Buffett, that was a relationship built on trust and mutual admiration. They weren't trying to exploit each other. And Buffett famously said, I've seen Charlie take the wrong side of the deal on many occasions and knowingly take the worst side of the deal on many occasions. And when, you know, we apportion blame and credit, he would take more of the blame than he deserved and less of the credit than he deserved. And when I asked Manga about how to have a happy life, he just starts talking about relationships and he says, Warren has been a marvelous partner to me and I've been a good partner to him. So even in that wording, he gave himself less credit than Warren. And so you start to look at that, and you start to be like, oh, so certain behavior tilts the odds in my favor of having a happy life. And you don't have control over the outcome. We don't know, you know, what the outcome will be. But there are ways of tilting the odds in your favor. So this in a way, I'll leave you with this thought because I don't want to exhaust you, you guys, too much to journey on too long. But in a way, the underlying principle of richer, wiser, happier the book is there are ways in which we can tilt the odds in our favor of having a successful and happy life. And we don't have control over the outcome. Charlie did not have control over the outcome of his son getting leukemia, but he had control over whether he let it destroy his entire life, whether he fell into self pity and despair. He had, you know, I mean, his first marriage ended in divorce. I mean, and he didn't have money. You know, he rebuilt his life. He ended up with eight children and step children. He was married for 50 years and, you know, he lost his eye. He had a glass eye. He had his choice over whether he fell into despair. You know, he said to me, he said, it's a very helpful attitude to see life as a series of adversities, each of which gives you an opportunity to behave well or badly. And so there's a very helpful attitude. And so it's not that life is going to be super easy because you're rich or super easy because you're famous. It's, you know, I mean, the Buddha talked about the nature of suffering, right? There's suffering. People suffer. It's difficult. So you have to build resilience. You have to invest in your equanimity, your relationships, accept that it's part of the human condition that people, you know, there are going to be difficult times. But if you behave in certain ways, if you control your own mindset, your own behavior, the way that you treat people in your relationships, you're tilting the odds in your favor of a positive outcome. And so you want to control what you can control. You can control your own behavior, not the outcome. But if you keep plugging away, doing the smart thing, doing the wise thing, avoiding the dumb thing over and over again, at a certain point, the odds of it turning out well, become kind of overwhelming. So just, just find, find habits, ways of behavior that are going to tilt the odds in your favor. And you're, you're lucky because you're starting very young. So Chloe, you can, you have much more of a runway than many of us. So you, you adopt these sensible habits. It took me a long time to figure this stuff out. I was like, I was probably 52 or 53 when this book came out. So I mean, I was distilling these ideas for myself in my late forties and early fifties to a long time to figure this stuff out. And I'm still, you know, not living up to it, but at least now I know more about how to build a successful life, happy life. And thank you so much for all your kindness, sharing with us your wisdom today. Now I just want to really just wrap it up with what William shared the last, right, like about the power of choice, right? We all have this power of choice to become a better person. And I think throughout the whole interview came to me that it was, it's daunting to me that, you know, Richard Weiser happier the most of the time we tend to focus on wealth, but if you focus on relationship, and that will immensely make you become happier over time. And I think when you become happier, things start to fall in place. And this is definitely something that I truly want to work on. So to become a better person, to build better relationships. So thank you so much, William, for really sharing with us. All right. It's a real pleasure. And I hope, I hope it's been helpful. And I hope I'll see you in Omaha again, end of, end of April, is it? Sort of May 1st around May 1st, 2nd, 3rd round then. Thank you. I hope I'll see you that. I mentioned earlier, this is one of the greatest investing book I've ever read. I think it really impacted the most on me because it's not just about investing principles. And I think based on the interview that we just had, you guys also realized that it's so much richer when we focus on the bigger thing, all right? Which is actually about life. So go and read this book if you have not. And also go and check out William's podcast. He really delves so deep into different things, right? With so many great investors and you will learn a lot, a lot from that as well. All right. So before we wrap up, maybe we can also take a group photo together. Is that okay with you, William? Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Thank you. I should do my hair then. You look very, very great. I love that. All right. So I'm just going to, yeah, everybody please switch on your camera as well. Thank you so much, William. Once again, it's really our honor and our pleasure to be here with you. And you've been so generous to every single one of us with your knowledge, your wisdom, just like how Charlie has been so generous and kind to all his disciples. And we are your disciples because you have really devoted so much wisdom and love to us as well. That's very kind of you. But if you knew what a schmuck I am half the time, you would not regard yourself as disciples. I have a close friend who has a beautiful phrase where he talks about being friends along the path. And I think that's a better way to view it. We're all friends along the path. We're trying to figure out how to live, how to be better people, how to build truly rich lives. And so, yeah, it's not, it's really not about being a disciple because if you saw how stupidly I do half the things I do, you would be like, really, that's not a plus. I want to follow. It's being friends along the path and to help each other along the path and to share, you know, and you do it with your work. I mean, you really, you do a lot to distill and synthesize what you're learning and then share it with other people. And so I think that's a beautiful model for us to be friends along the path. So in that spirit, thank you for giving me an opportunity to chat with you all. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to be your friends along the path as well. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Take care. Have a good day, everybody, and thank you so much, William. Take care.