 Welcome everybody to this round table on refugees and restoration. We are happy that you joined on this World Environment Day. So happy World Environment Day and welcome everybody. It is a Saturday. So many people joined us here to think about the future, learn from practitioners and discuss solutions. My name is Tina Toyche. I will be moderating this event and I'm very, very grateful that you all followed the invitation to this round table. Why? Well, globally there are about 79.5 million forcibly displaced people, including refugees and globally more than 75% of Earth's land areas are substantially degraded. And this undermines the well-being of almost half of the world's population. The annual costs of land degradation are more than 230 billion US dollars. But the thing is that there is hope. There are solutions. There are examples showing that these global problems can be turned into local solutions. And many regenerative projects worldwide work on the regeneration of land and the healing of people and ecosystems, also together with possibly displaced people. So today we are entering the UN decade on ecosystem restoration. We can use this momentum to bring the nature-based and people-centered solutions into the spotlight and let them multiply, pollinate others and scale these positive impacts. So it's not about newness, but it's about nurturing what is already there. And this event today is an exploration, a discovery. We want to strengthen the root system of a resilient society and today we have inspiring guests here who will share their knowledge, wisdom and experience with us today. It's rosemary moral from permaculture for refugees. It's Jenny Spears from Lamentry Trust. It's Fortuny, Calpa Kiotis from the Greek Forum of Refugees. It's Peter van der Haag from Ecosystem Reservation Camp. It's Juliet Millicamp from Realliant and Ruth Andrade from Lush Regenerosity. So I will introduce them in more detail later to you. So as you can see, our agenda today is very tight and I kindly ask all of our speakers to be brief. And if you exceed the timeframe, nature will remind you to finish talking with some of our beautiful sounds. So if you hear water dripping or birds singing, please come to the end because we also want to have some more time for discussion and for the comments from the audience who is also watching on YouTube. And we first now would like to know more about you, the participants in Zoom and also on YouTube. Please share with us in the chat. Where are you right now? So type in on which place and you are right now, which country or from where you are joining the session. So let's have a look. Apparently we are not live yet, but we can already see some people joining us from Paris, from the UK, from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Welcome from Papua Chai, hi, from the Philippines. So from Bangladesh, welcome. So people from all over the world joining us here. And we will also have later this day another round table where people from other also other time zones can join and and watch. So I think it's really great how many people from how many different countries are already here. And I think it's great that we can share our visions, our knowledge and experience internationally, thanks to also the technical part that plays a big role and and yeah, also can make it possible that we can broadcast now here to YouTube. So thank you all for being here and a very, very warm welcome. Let us shed some light on the key question of today and of why we all came here, because we really want to find out together, what is it that can help make the regenerative project grow. So the question, what if we transform refugee camps into regenerative camps? How can we do this? What is the way and so we have done some, yeah, some very interesting conversations with people already working on it. I want to present some of this. What are regenerative practices? Well, ecosystem land restoration is when you improve the soil fertility, the water cycle and the local climate with regenerative practices. We have permaculture, agroecology, agroforestry, holistic grazing and other techniques. You literally plant the seeds for a healthy future of people because these gentle ecosystem services like food production, clean water and air, cooling and shade, natural building material and much more. And it can be large scale or small scale, but observations show that small scale projects tend to lay more focus on empowering people and building local resilience. And if we unfold this potential in the refugee context, multiple benefits can arise for people who are falsely displaced as well as for the local citizens, the host countries and the global community. So far we can observe five points and I will go deeper into them in this talk. First, restoration with refugees has a great potential. There are good examples with knowledge and experience that already exists, but obstacles hinder them to be implemented on a large scale. And learning from each other can help to overcome the constraints and this is what we want to do in this round table. So next steps is the question we will find out what would help during our two events today, but also bring in concrete idea. But first let's look at the benefits and the potential of ecosystem restoration in refugee camps. There are a lot of benefits connected to ecosystem restoration. It has a strong potential for global goals for refugees, refugee camps and regions. It contributes to all 17 sustainable development goals like no hunger by providing nutritious food, reducing climate change, strengthening biodiversity and building peace. And in the UN decade on ecosystem restoration starting today, scientific evidence shows that the restoration of degraded ecosystems by 2030 could generate an additional value of 9 trillion US dollars in ecosystem services and remove 13 to 26 gigatons of CO2 equivalent from the atmosphere. So globally, the benefits obtained from ecosystem regeneration exceed the costs of the investment tenfold. But what if in addition, everyone in the world, even for simply displaced people can contribute to reach these goals. Not only will ecosystem restoration have a positive effect on the global economy and on CO2 ag registration, which is important, but oftentimes focus too much if it also benefits the people. Because people flee from droughts, hunger and war, and they generate enormous forces to find better living conditions. A refugee camp is always seen as a stopover, but the onward journey is risky, costly and hard and a high percentage of people will never leave the camp again. There's no back and forth. So the potential lays in the wide overlap of what refugees need and what regenerative practices can provide. It restores lands, water, soils and health using collective intelligence. People can feed themselves with nutritious healthy food. It creates compost for good soil, leading from scarce resource to circular economy with trees for shade and protection from the sun. Shelter and housing with natural building material. Schooling and education with a holistic approach. Regenerative energy supply for electricity, cooking and heating. Job training, employment opportunities and economic integration, as well as improved health, well-being and even trauma therapy because gardening and community building with restoration can support mental healing. So restoring the earth you're living in is empowering and be satisfying and gives direction. It lets people transform from this place to well-place, from dependence to ownership. It can help to retrieve a sense of belonging and regain hope for a brighter, peaceful future. So what if refugee camps become self-sustainable and produce more than they need? This would also benefit the hosting countries and regions because the current problem is that hosting countries suffer from land degradation, conflicts and resource needs for their own people as well as the people in their refugee camps. In permaculture we say that the problem is the solution and the potential solution can be that ecosystem restoration can halt and reverse the high levels of land degradation and soil erosion that are often associated with refugee camps. Those regenerative camps can restore degraded lands into productive landscapes, contribute to food security, energy supply, community development and combat climate change, reduce urban heat effects and much more. So by restoring soil, water cycles, forests, camps can contribute to disaster relief and peace building, improve the resource management and support the way from short-term emergency aid to long-term positive impact. So what if refugees can leave the host country in a better state than when they arrive? And the good news is that this is not a new idea. There are a lot of food examples for regenerative practices in refugee camps. They already exist and some of them we have in our roundtable today, like Realliance with its more than 50 partners, Dementry Trust, Bayuda Village, Movement on the Ground, Nisan, Uganda and of course permaculture for refugees. So pioneer projects are reported from all over the world, from Cameroon also, from Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and more examples and contacts are welcome. So please share the ones you know of in the chat and feel free to add on this list. We can learn a lot from the experience of these practitioners, but they also report the constraints of restoration work in refugee camps and we should take this very seriously and shed a light on the problems in order to find out how to tackle them. Because these obstacles prevent regeneration in camps and among other things, it's the fear of permanence from local authorities. Normally refugee camps shall be temporary sites, but they rarely are. In reality camps are not as temporary as intended. The average length of time spent in a camp is 12 years and only 1% of fewer refugees are resettled. Governments are afraid that planting leads to permanent residency and also there's oftentimes a lack of knowledge about the potential of restoration and a lack of awareness. A second block of constraints for sure is the resource scarcity, a lack of water, seeds, building material, cooking energy solutions, but also market access for products from regenerative agriculture that can come from the camp. And in addition, there are also challenges for education of regenerative practices supported, for example, in the very well written guidelines from permaculture for refugees, different stakeholder interests, an enormous cultural and language diversity, but also can be a threat of violence and logistical hurdles for foreigners to go to the camps. There aren't many contingencies, so there are a lot of obstacles, but fortunately learning from each other can help overcome these constraints. And thanks to the conversations we had with projects working on restoration with refugees, their observations show what helps and works. And it is things like involvement, include people with their cultural heritage of gardening and agriculture. And this participation, establish, for example, train the trainer programs, gardeners to gardener networks. Adaptations, so adapt material and training with local experts to local needs. Relations, so for example, relations to the camp managers that are key and to also set up good relations with other stakeholders. The question of translations, we need interpreters, even though the power of restoration is something that creates a common language. Resource management with regenerative principles like water catchment and use using local seed. And for sure the funding. It has to be thought in a long term way. So also leaving financial resources for the continuation of programs. And this roundtable is is what we invited for this roundtable to complement this list with the insights from practitioners. So now the purpose of today's event is to talk about these obstacles and solutions and after the events we want to. Into next steps and one could be for for afterwards to develop an adaptable living guideline for all interest people and organizations to use. So the goal of the roundtable today is to learn about the needs and structure them. So today's question are really why are regenerative practices a good idea for refugee camps what is needed to establish and sustain restoration. Projects and refugee camps and how can these projects multiply. What we could do then and this is to discuss, we could set up a working group developing a guideline on regenerative camps and establish a practice project that can then be used from multiple organizations and people. We want to have a practical instrument that a lot of people and organizations can apply but it shall not be purely theoretical so adaptable for different circumstances tailor made for local needs and realities and applied and tested on site and one or more practice project. And we want to make a follow up event in autumn after this so including more experts more people from from working already in projects and if you feel inspired by this vision and today's insight. If you can imagine to contribute to these projects and or to the development of the guideline or implement a practice project or support in the organization of the next events please contact us and or support the project that are presented today and that we that we will now listen to in a more detailed way so today we will focus on the three questions highlighted here and we have experienced people with us sharing their perspectives on these questions. And our first speaker I would like to introduce to you is rosemary moral. And Rosemary, let me quickly share this picture from her with you is, I'm very happy that she's here with us today. Sorry to check out where it's gone. So here we go. Just lost, but I will check it. So, voila. Well, please let me introduce rosemary. Rosemary is an international respected pioneer of the permaculture movement. She has almost four decades of experience on the ground. I'm very happy that you're here. I'm from Blue Mountains permaculture Institute you have trained villagers farmers also from water nations. And, yeah, and introducing permaculture in refugee camps and every day I am studying one of your chapters from the earth user sky to permaculture, which is an excellent handbook to learn regenerative practices so row it's really honor to have you here with us. So, what is the name of your newest book. It covers marine permaculture, it covers permaculture and the margins people in camps and high right buildings and slums with permaculture has never gone. It's called earth users earth restorers guide to permaculture and it's on pretty much rewritten, and it includes such things as the STGs and planetary boundaries instead of limits and we brought it into line so that there can be some magnification for all the work we do together by including all material from a design and permaculture viewpoint. Thank you Tina thank you for your time. Okay, so I was going to say good evening everyone but it's not evening that's where you are might be breakfast time. I would just say that I live on Gundam girl land, which is Aboriginal land in Australia was never seeded at all. It was the biggest land grab in the world, I think this continent without any possible reconciliation or approaches that Aboriginal people so it's our Australian tradition to acknowledge that we're grateful to be on this land and glad to be here. I want to thank Ruth Harvey for all her work in putting together the results of the documents that we've been able to produce. So, thank you Tina, that was a lovely introduction. In 2015, I was in Europe at a permaculture conference, and at that stage refugees from Syria were pouring into Europe and you all remember it I think, same time refugees were coming out of Africa. They were dying, they were in boats, the camps were full. And at that meeting because I'd had 30 years of work with war and civil war. So in Afghanistan and in Cambodia and in Vietnam and Uganda and the height of AIDS. I'd had so much experience with people who were being forced into really inferior situations that I was convinced that permaculture, adapted permaculture would offer something significant to refugees. So a small brave group of us, about six and we're still pretty faithful today, got together to form permaculture for refugees. So the first thing we did was just brainstorm. Permaculture for refugee camps, a tiny book that pretty much put together Tina, all the points that you put there. Why it was an advantage, the dust, the dirt, the lack of entity, the lack of uncertainty for people and living with that and how it presents a problem. And so we looked at all that then I took that book and I said let's see if we can visit refugee camps in three continents, four continents, and let's Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Christian Orthodox, non Christian. Let's see what happens when we take permaculture to all different continents and places. So I come from a scientific background and I knew that we'd have to have these comparisons before we could scale up. So we actually, I got the money and we took permaculture to Bangladesh, to Malaysia where five million refugees that you may not know about to Turkey, you know the refugees there to two sites in Greece, one on Lesfos and one in Attica, and also in IDPs in the Philippines where they have the worst record of disasters in the world and they've always got displaced people in camps in addition to war. So through that we took a couple of permaculture teachers, but we made the course to include local people, local residents, wasn't always possible to include stuff of the NGO, and to have 75% refugees. Now this was based on something that had been working for me after recovery of war, include local people, not those who were so build relationships because there's a peace building in it. And we wrote different organizations or they asked us and we went to each camp. In addition, I was back in Kashmir, an occupied country displaced people where the suffering is enormous, and we took a couple of other. I had already taught in Iraq, in Kurdistan, I visited Domus 1 and Domus 2, I looked at the gardens there, and I thought we're going to teach permaculturist design of a camp, not gardening. So we actually looked at the gardening section, at the end we could give people seeds, we could give them things, but they then took a section of the camp and designed it. And someone said to me, refugees can't do that. And I thought, well, why can't they? They're no different, it's just I come from a very privileged background being Australian and they are forced out, but I believe absolutely in people. So what we found that we took 18 months and we did get the funding, ultimately it was $10,000 a course, which is pretty cheap, 10,000 Australian. And with that, about one quarter was for the teachers, their costs, their visas and everything, quarter for the course, and then we left $2,000 with every camp and manager to do as they wished following the course. Once they made a committee with camp management or host organization and refugees. Okay, so after teaching, we then produced this booklet. Thank you Ruth, teaching permaculture in refugee camps in particular. And that's where we were able to derive the principles that we know now. It's first upskill the NGOs, you know I wouldn't take permaculture teachers again. I would teach NGOs in camps permaculture because they understand the day to day, the language, the translation, the food, the sicknesses you get as you do, and they are much better equipped to carry permaculture there. I would always include locals. So as you know, unless there was the fire in Moria camp, then there was the second fire, I think it was the locals who set up things the locals who had been in the permaculture course who set up situations in Philippine same things happened when the next when the volcanoes went up, it was the locals who helped the people who'd been bombed out of their cities. So I'm absolutely convinced that you must keep the local people in Bangladesh, the local people had a course and so did the refugees, side by side, and that created a great integration and interest. So what we were doing is trying to reduce the, I'm watching the time, trying to reduce the possible conflict about land being lost or degraded by high numbers of population and build relationships. So that had a very big impact with COVID. I think adapting our teaching methods was absolutely vital. We've really had to use teaching methods, which were very different. The interpreter doesn't always speak English, or may have learned English, doesn't know permaculture. The interpreter may want to teach the interpreters learning as they go, we did not have professionals who'd been in Geneva schools. So it was really important to be adaptive. So now what we have got this month's later we've got the first results out from what people did and where the permaculture stayed embedded in the camp, because we don't want to walk away and disappears. We don't want to just stay there and we don't want to just do gardens, because then the dry season or lack of water and still the shade trees will grow, and the wind breaks and the grave water management will continue. So we took small areas of camps, and then they have expanded. What's not going on much longer, we did have a process of teaching based on alternatives to violence, and we do have very, very good content, which devolves draws on the knowledge of the people we feed in. I could talk about COVID and NGOs and things, but I think that's it is Natina for me for the moment. Yeah, it's pretty fast and I think we could listen to you for some more hours, I guess, because you have so much experience and done so much work, but thank you for now. And we can, I hope we can go deeper into this in the discussion later. Thank you. We have time for like a short Q&A if you, if someone has in the chat question to to roll directly right now, or if not we can also take the questions that are coming in the chat now for the discussion later and maybe roll you go one more minute for what you want to just wanted to say. Because you were while people are writing in the chat. The important thing was the local NGO camp management differs. And I think camps from few thousand to 50,000. So, you know, a couple of them are 50,000 and not all the same. The camp management was sometimes military who said people don't need this we just need to get them working on building roads here. And so the important thing was to work with the local NGO because they understood and they had a commitment to refugees camp managers we were courteous and polite and they signed our visas and medicine to the camps where that was necessary. But they were not the key people. So I think that was an important factor as well. The other thing is the NGO did all our documentation that found our accommodation. We didn't find our own. We stayed with the local staff who were responsible in the camp and that meant in evenings we'd go for the work what we're teaching. We were giving them in service training. And the local staff had responsibility for us so we're 10 in the car going through the traffic of Cox is bizarre but that is an important part I think of some degree of trust and acceptance. They're just some of the issues off the top of my head now. I don't think and what we would like is that eventually all to be run by refugees. So we do have some refugees, young refugees in. I think in Bangladesh and also in Malaysia. It's slower coming out of Greece, but we were the other thing is not all refugees and the ones we'd like to participate have English which unfortunately is a dominant language. We're very lucky with more gambles project teaching permaculture on mobile phones, because they're about to come in as permaculture for refugees in East Africa. And they'll be fairly independent and permaculture Europe as well will be. Yeah. Okay, I better stop. We have we are happy to have her with us and maybe can she can add to this passion later. Thank you. Yeah, so we have a lot of people here listening from sets from Uganda from the Netherlands from Bangladesh from UK. And also joining from Lesbos so feel invited to ask questions in the chat and and yeah also contribute with your wisdom and experience. Yeah, so thank you for spending your time with us on this important topic. So our next speaker is Jenny Jenny Spears. I'm trying to find her in the in our our list. Here we are. Yes. And so I would shortly like to introduce her. And also would like to say hello. Thank you Jenny. If you're here with us. Thank you very much. Just a short introduction round. So here we go. So Jenny works with lemon tree trust and helps refugee communities to create gardens all over the world. Lemon tree trust these gardening as a powerful tool to address issues of mental health of producing beauty belonging food security and promising economic stimulation. And Jenny is responsible for PR media relations. She has been a professional on this field for almost 20 years of experience and face basis of work on really listening to the people. Why, I think we can learn also a lot from you because yeah from your inspiring inspiring work and what you what it needs to bring this work forward in the world. So I hand it over to Jenny. Thank you for being here. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. So Rosemary is a big actor follow. So thank you so much Rosemary for your presentation. Your decades of experience in this field I feel I just have a few years so a few years experience but I feel very new to this. As Tina said my background is in is in PR and communications and I came to know about the legendary trust through a project that I did with them at the Chelsea flower show in London in 2018. And so it was it was through presenting the work of lemon tree trust at Chelsea and to that. You know, sort of network of gardeners that I became involved much more involved in the organization and since then have have kind of embedded myself it's an organization that once you sort of know a little bit about it is difficult to leave it alone so and that's my personal background but as I say since 2018 I've become more involved in the work of lemon tree trust and it's an organization that's very young and it works, we still work predominantly in the Kurdistan region of Iraq. So very north of Iraq and Rosemary mentioned Dom is one Dom is to those are two of the camps that we are active in and have projects in. And but now we have gardening activities in kind of regular gardening activities in eight of the camps in that region. I think in total, there are 24 camps in in the Kurdistan region of Iraq, and that's a mixture of refugee and IDP so internally displaced people camps and generally refugees and IDPs live in different in different camps, as well as within the host community that's also possible of course. And so, there's there is, there is, you know, lots and lots of gardening of urban agriculture happening within the camps lemon tree trust hasn't introduced anything that wasn't already, you know, happening. It's an organization that supports people from the ground up so on a shelter to shelter level, and tries to encourage home gardening, and in time community gardening so people coming together as a community to garden and support each other. And the drivers for that. I mean, of course, land restoration, the environmental impact benefits of gardening are obviously well documented but for us, the main driver has been the mental health benefits that's gardening on a personal scale at a shelter level, and as a community can bring to the people who are living in camps so lemon tree trust. We've produced gardening competitions to camps in that region. The gardening competitions were away and still are away, and your garden competitions to encourage people to start gardening, even if on a very, very small scale, with just a packet of seeds to share about a few but to to encourage people just to get started. Many, many people were already gardening. I mean, obviously, the Syrian people has a long, long, long history of gardening ornamental gardening and, you know, gardening for food. So it's, it really, in a way, you know, people didn't need very much encouragement, and really they just needed the tools to get started and and a packet of seeds can go very, very long way. So now, you know, we continue that tradition of annual garden competitions to encourage people to kind of garden, you know, at shelters and as a community, we distribute seeds, plants and trees for shade. We are kind of becoming more involved, I suppose, in that community garden run by a very small team of refugees that live there. And we are working now with other NGOs in the region. The predominant one at the moment is an organization called seed Kurdistan, which is a fantastic local organization that helps people to overcome trauma. So gardening now is is one of those sort of recognized therapies, if you like. And lemon tree trust is working alongside seed Kurdistan to create gardens at their mental health centers within camps. So once people have received their therapy, they're talking therapies, and the gardens provide somewhere safe for their children to play whilst those therapies are happening. But then the garden itself is an extension of that therapy. We ensure that there are raised beds that can be gardened as a community by individual families that produce and, you know, food and flowers that are produced there can be shared around. But we're really finding ways to work with just as Rosemary was saying, you know, I think it's about finding the people who live in the communities who are using the resources that are already there in the communities. And we need to find ways to extend our work, not by adding more top down people, but by finding the people who are already there, people who are already living there who have, you know, the very strong impetus to do something about their local environment to improve their local environment, and to help others to do that too. So that work is ongoing. I think another challenge for us in that region is obviously access to water. There have been some gray water projects that have been started. And that work continues alongside camp management alongside the restrictions that are in place in camps to to use, you know, the scarce water resources. And obviously, water collection at water rich times of the year is obviously something that we need to to sort of do more of access to to organic material. I think is, you know, obviously moving forward we want to through through training through through talking to people through through practicing gardening with people we want to move away from a reliance on on, you know, chemical fertilizers and pesticides into a sort of accepted practice of organic gardening. But obviously lack of organic matter to improve the soil and lack of leaf drop lack of, you know, general sort of organic material is a challenge at the moment but you know in time we hope that that can we hope that that improves where we're sort of talking to people now about growing green manure crops on particular pieces of land working that back into the soil composting and collecting all possible sort of, you know, green material that's available and breaking that down so that work now has started with us we've we work with both people who live in camps and people from the host community who can, you know, support our projects on the ground. And we have a new sort of horticulture consultant in the region called Hamid. He's in Erbil but he was trained at Sheffield University actually in the UK in landscape architecture and and design but he is passionate about helping people, both, you know, from his his home country of Kurdistan but also people who have her fled there from Syria and from other parts of Iraq so we're working with Hamid to kind of introduce you. I don't want to interrupt you but nature. Oh sorry. You could kind of go on forever couldn't you but it's a general overview so yeah. It's so valuable what you share because yeah thank you there are a lot of insights I think that that are really interesting and there are also coming questions from our audience in here, for example, a question that could be answered by you how open where do you have any plans to implement. Well, principles, permaculture principles was the question maybe also for role but also the gardening in the camps. How. Yeah, so how is this relationship. And so as we found that relations with camp management is really important so actually the camp manager. It was before my time with lemon tree trust but at the time that the initial garden competition was introduced to Dom is one. There was a female camp manager in place, and she understood immediately that gardening could benefit, you know, you know, people across the camp and was very receptive. Camp managers differ from camp to camp and they move around a lot so you can sort of find that you've built a good relationship with someone but then suddenly they're posted somewhere else so it's kind of like starting again and again. But it's really about empowering and giving the responsibility for maintaining those relationships to the people who live there. And from my perspective, you know, I feel very far away. I am very far away from the projects most of the time. I mean constant kind of, you know, telephone contact with people but it really is about empowering the people who live there to come, you know, to maintain those relationships and to ensure that the camp management and and the authorities I mean in in Kurdistan it's about a safe which is the local police force. They need to feel involved. They need to feel that they're also part of this solution. So we regularly give them trees and plants and you know we're improving the local environment around the camp management offices. Thank you for this brief answer and also for all the questions coming in here for from from our audience on YouTube thank you very much we will still later have some time to discuss the questions coming in and thank you for now Jenny. This was great insight also. So, very good. So, I'd like to introduce you to our next speaker. And she is working in Greece. She is working at the Greek Forum of Refugees. And for Tony is the project coordinator there. And it was created in 2012 and the network connects migrant communities as well as individuals and professionals who wish to aid in the Greek humanitarian crisis and she has more than 30 years of experience and NGOs working on humanitarian and environmental resources, also the government agencies. So, welcome and a big also virtual applause, like for all of us be good for Tony. So the main question, you have been working for a long time on different projects but it's interesting to know what would be needed to establish a restoration project with refugees in Greece where you are working and what do you need to start to do this. Please share with us. I'll just do something that I've written and then I will carry on talking. Thank you for inviting me on this very special day. It's a very special day for me this environment day. The worry for me was connecting the two say, you know, how do we connect to burning burning topics, refugees and environment together refugees have been through times and have serious problems when they arrive on our shores. And the last thing on the mind is environmental problems and climate change. So we looked at all this, and we decided to work bottom way up. So what we do is we empower refugees to take the initiative of on different aspects using advocacy self advocacy workshops and hiring focus groups within the camps to be able to address some of the issues and initiatives themselves. One of these issues or initiatives in these camps now will be making an uncomfortable situation into a green haven. Following on that, we see that some of the problems are refugees and repeating things because Rosemary has said so much. Refugees living in non eco friendly spaces, but also living in confined spaces with walls being now added to all the camps, they are making them close camps. And which, which is one of the reasons impacting negatively their mental health in refugees. Therefore, the importance of self organization initiatives of refugees themselves in the camps and supporting them with experts for the initiatives and the needs. And like even I think it was Jenny that said, even the simplest of things to start off something is very important. So, and what we're going to what we want to provide and then is with the skills of as well to develop a sustainable knowledge on regardless how long they will be in the camps because they could be one year or a decade. By this we practically provide sustainable solutions which in turn will be good practice that refugees will be involved in the initiative can be scaled and in other camps. Even when refugees leave the camp, they will have the knowledge that can be transferable wherever they go, even if it's in another country, providing additionally that this will create an eco friendly focus movement. Among refugees. And then I wanted to stress because we are, we're an organization that was created from refugees and runs is run by refugees and this is the, the, the importance in the thing that we get very close to the refugee and the people, most of the people on the board of refugee background or migrant background. So they have the first hand information they understand the language, the culture, and, and all that. So we started doing focus groups in some of the camps we've done this with 10 camps we've come in contact where people they visit the different camps in the different cultures as well. We build these focus groups in the, in the camps and let them work on that. But at the same time, we're working with municipalities in certain places in Greece, working and introducing migrants and refugees into the council because it's a refugee. It's a, it's a council for migrant and refugees on integration. So working with it's under the local authority so when you work with that, we work at the bottom from the camps. And then we want to bring the society close to the camps as well. And if this is one way of being able to turn things around and starting from one camp and then just sailing to the other camps to succeed in changing the camps inside because the camps inside are really in very sad conditions. I mean, there's a camp in northern Greece that they intense they don't even have clean water. Other camps they turn the water off the people that are managing face. So, there is so much to be done. So each camp for we'll be seeing what they all need and then work on that. That's what I've written. There was more but it's all just a repetition of what everybody said and I don't want to repeat that. But the bottom way up for us I think is the best thing in Greece, because we always do have obstacles whether it is the government or the laws and laws changing things like that. Okay, I think there are some questions that could be of interest also to be answered by you for Tony. It's often where the camp management or how open, no, I mean, what do you think, how can it be really well implemented to also introduce to refugees the idea of restoring without the feeling of some sort of its forced labor It's starting with a focus group on gardening and giving them the benefits of what it would do if they had this little garden and giving them the tools like seed to plant outside their little homes. Now these in the camps these these container homes which are stuck one next to the other and these rows of these container homes and the front doors of one row will be facing the front door of another row. Okay, the backside of and this space is six meters from the one front door to the other. Okay, they are on the behind side, they face the behind of the other rows. That is two meters apart and these air conditioners in all of those. If there's a power failure in a heat wave, there are no windows in the bank. So these are the containers of stifling in there. So we've decided to start slowly with one camp, fixing gardens with a few people, and then hoping that they will encourage others to do that and that will actually already change the look of the camp. But it's just, it looks like a prison with numbers and it's a wonder that they haven't even put the numbers on their arms the way it's done. That's about screening one point at one place at a time. The restoration of the land and soil is only the second step. It will be the gardening. Start with the gardening and get the the refugees excited about it and wanting to do it. And then introducing the local society, which will that help the integration as well. So if the environment topic and restoration is actually going to help integration as well because when they see what the camp looked like, what the refugees did, I'm sure they will be a positive narrative. I don't think it will be a negative narrative. Like you hear, you know, refugees are just parasites are just sitting there, they're not doing anything. And we will start with a camp that actually self organized a school in in in the camp and we supported them. Yeah, so it's when you find that you and we've taken actually when we see a good practice in one camp would take some people from that camp to the other camp to introduce it to them. It's so much better when it's somebody speaking, living in a camp, explaining it to the other people in the camps. It's the quickest way of actually, you don't have to convince, you know, if I go and start telling them and say, you know, this is what you should do. They'll think, oh, it's okay for you to look in the city. You've got it all. So it comes to positive narrative. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for tuning in for sharing. And yeah, we have you in the passion later too. So we are going to a short comfort break. Not a long one, but yeah, just to people to stretch their legs to go to the restaurant grab a cup of tea or coffee, or just enjoy the art intervention we are going to share with you and in this, the next three four minutes after four minutes, we'll meet here again. And in the meantime, we'll listen to the wonderful song, Karma culture from Karma youth, caught it with traffic in Kenya and Kenya. And yes, they are also celebrating more a gamble who is with us today here and being heard their teacher. And we meet again in four minutes. So, yeah, let's listen to the song. Yep. Plastic is five blade and factory maker. Present Karma culture. Located in Kenya, Kakuma refugees come. Japanese production. Morrag, Gambe, God bless you wherever you are. Hamasakina, Kiriba, you are the best in this. Sambereta. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks to you Morra During Also for this wonderful video and greetings to Parma Youth sharing this with us on YouTube also visible for everyone. I think it's the real we call it ear warm because it sticks in your ear and then you're going all day Parma culture being very happy with it. So I would like to introduce it to our next speaker. Well, where do you go? And let's say welcome to Peter van der Haag, Executive Director of Ecosystem Restoration Camps Foundation. He serves there in the Ecosystem Restoration Camps Foundation and his career spends for more than 25 years in projects always related to sustainability with ANPD with the Northern Alliance for Sustainability with IOCN and Striders Investment Management as well as the Natural Capital Coalition and the Dutch Development Bank. And Peter will shed a light on the question how restoration can transform places and what is needed from the EOC's experiences are there elements that could be applied also for refugee camps. So yeah, a very warm welcome to you Peter and I give it over to you. Thank you Tina. I'm actually kind of humbled by the previous speakers all the knowledge you've brought in already. I will try to add but you'll hear a lot of repetition on what we experience and we don't work in refugee camps not yet but what our camps are experiencing on the ground. Tina you asked me if I could talk about the transformative power of restoration, how projects can best be built, the potential of regenerative practices for refugees and how ERC Ecosystem Restoration Camps could help. Now to get to the answers to these questions let me first explain what ecosystem restoration camps is. We are a collaborative network of self-initiated, self-managed, autonomous ecosystem restoration and regenerative agriculture projects. Often these two go hand in hand restoration of natural function and introducing regenerative practices which is an exciting move within agriculture in my view really the next great agricultural revolution reinforced each other. Globally we are a movement of people who are working together locally to restore ecosystems and introduce regenerative practices. This is World Environment Day. It's the day where the UN launches its United Nations Decade on Ecosystem Restoration. Yesterday the Gala events took place with the Pope, the Secretary General of the United Nations, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the German Chancellor and our founder John Yu. Restoration of ecosystems is the great priority for the coming decade because restoration resolves so many of the fundamental threats to humanity in an unsustainable path we're in. So that's a hint of the answer to your first question on the transformative power of ecosystem restoration. I'll go a bit deeper. Over the last several millennia, humanity continuously made bad decisions on how to use the land and waters. We chose to cultivate which literally meant the removal of the natural world from our own. The result is severely degraded ecosystems with the ensuing loss of natural resources, fertility, water and life. The impact of collapsing ecosystems is already visible. Where life has left, people want to leave. Or for the scarce resources that remain conflict emerges. I can tell you, which is what you asked, that ecosystem restoration is transformative. But I actually urge you to watch John Yu's film on the transformation of the last button, where it went from a desert to a lush green area. And you just saw the music clip of people living in a place full of permaculture. You will intuitively know that life there is better. If you're involved yourself in restoration or introducing these new techniques in producing our food and materials, you'll also strongly feel that you're contributing significantly to combating climate change, stopping biodiversity loss, returning water streams, and fighting poverty and hunger. That's personally transformative. So restoration transforms places, but also people. The natural is actually much more abundant than the culture. And we have examples of regenerative farms. The video just now that increased their production per hectare with sometimes a factor of a hundred. Just imagine what that could mean for the world population. Restoration and regeneration needs people to be inspired. And then they need to be helped for the skills that are needed. So that brings me to your second question, what makes a good project? And we've heard this already with the other speakers. If the personal transformation is the key, we need to give people, ordinary people, access to knowledge and involve them in what we in the community of ecosystem restoration camps call our great global living lab, where techniques and methods are tested and we collectively learn. Without a lot of funding, full-time employed expertise, or several years of a relevant education, we are greatly expanding through that the ability of humanity to build our lives inside functioning natural systems and with abundance. So for me for a successful project, step one is empowered people that have a true stake in the success of the endeavor. So within ERC, in Somalia, it's villagers who are starting to restore those terribly degraded tri-lands. In Syria, UNDP in an ERC is helping farmers to bring back life to their soils and to their communities. In Mombasa and Kenya, it's the local youth that are restoring mangroves to provide some flood control, but also create natural fish nurseries. In Guatemala, it's the local villagers that are introducing agroforestry on the hillside that have been destroyed by slash and bird monoculture. In California, it's residents of paradise, a city destroyed by fire a few years ago that are making the region more fire resistant through nature. I hear a bird. In Spain, it's the local farmers who are stopping the further degradation of their soils. So that brings me to your third question. How about restoration and regeneration of refugees? When I think about refugees and especially those living in refugee camps, how great would it be that while living in the camp and we're hearing examples, you can grow your own food sustainably using regenerative techniques? Second, what if we can empower people that live there to be good stewards and maybe even restorers of the environment where they now find themselves? And third, what if they can share those learnings with the rest of the restoration community? I think that sharing of learnings by itself is already transformative. You are part again of a global humanity working to find a sustainable path on this planet. And I think with that knowledge, it's easier to return to your old home if it's possible and safe or to a new home, restore the place and build up a sustainable regenerative livelihood. So now finally our role for those living and working in the refugee camps around the world, can we connect you to our network? Could you agree to be an ecosystem restoration cow? Can we help build skills through courses and connection to others? And that's the question I want to leave with. As I said, we are a bottom up organization and we've heard it with the other speakers. We can only inspire people to take on the work of restoration and regeneration. But once that inspiration is there, we as community of camps are certainly ready to support all in the network of life trying to achieve sustainability. Thanks. Thank you so much, Peter. And also thank you for doing exactly this. Also in the chat, people say, yeah, education is the basis, the knowledge to share this. And this is what you also do with ecosystem restoration camps, also with the online course with Gaia Education. And so this might be a short question back to you. Can this be applied or can these courses and the offers you give also for online learning, to which extent can they be used for refugees or in refugee context? Yeah, well, the current online course we have fully focused on, I want to start a restoration project. There's not that much attention to regenerative food production in it. But we are developing more as we speak. They come at a price, but we have a scholarship program, so things are possible there. And we're building a knowledge platform right now with Zendesk in California. We're building a platform where anyone can come in and find the knowledge being translated to laypeople level, where when you didn't have the education, you will still be able to find out how you can do things. We should launch it this month. But as with all IT projects, it takes longer. But we're working on it to get that platform for anyone who would like to know more, to come to and find information. Good to know. Thank you so much, Peter. And see you in the discussion later. I'm not sure whether Juliet Mulliken from Realliance is with us, because I can't see her in our participants list. So if you're there, please unmute yourself and tell me if you're there now. And if not, we're going directly to the next one. It's a loop, but I'm not sure yet whether Juliet is with us. Maybe she joins us later. So three to one. Not yet. Okay. So then I would like to introduce you to Ruth. She is a trustee and co-founder of Realliance and co-creator of Regenerosity and is also working for Lush. And Ruth has actually, well, a lot of experience with these different projects. She actually, Regenerosity is an initiative for finding funding and learning from the planet's most regenerative projects. So this is a platform where people can find a lot of solutions also. And this is what we are discussing today, the solutions. And she also works for the Natural Cosmetics company Lush since 2004. It's passionate about how to transform businesses into a force of regeneration. So what we'd like to discuss with you today is actually this question, why would funders, investors think that regenerative practices are a good idea for refugee camps and how do you decide on what to support? For example, the yeast project, the camp in Uganda that we will also get to know later in the second round table. So and what is needed in order to get more regenerative projects funded? So can you hear us, Ruth? Sure. Can you hear me? Yes. Just to say that, that was quite a lot of just a second. Okay. Thank you for being here. I heard that this is not easy for you to date for being here. No. And I was just, I was just gonna say I'm sitting in a cafe so there is a little bit of background noise. Okay. And can you turn the camera on? Is my camera on? Well, I can't, I can see that. No, no, it's off. My camera is on. I'm sorry. It was the wrong one. I'm sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. There is another weird thing that's all is on. It is sorry. Yeah. Just a second. Here you are. Sorry. This, we have a lot of people here. So here we go. I think just, just to say that I, you know, I'm quite, I think, I think there are quite a few people in this call that are already part of an existing network that has been looking into, into this issue for quite some time. And Lush, even though we're a cosmetics company, I don't know if everyone here knows Lush. We are a British business. We are operating nearly 50 countries. We have about 900 stores. So it's a bit like bizarre, why would we, you know, invest and donate for refugee camps. And I think, I think this comes from a deep understanding that the amount of transformation that needs to happen is so high at the moment. And like, how can we really create conditions conducive to life and especially like move all of human endeavor to being regenerative? Like this is about creating a regenerative culture. And when we look at, you know, climate change or ecosystem degradation, we also know that it's an issue of justice and equity. And then, you know, as a business, if we really want to be in the space, it feels that it's important to look at the most, you know, the most vulnerable people that are being displaced from their home. So I think, Lush, as well, we've been, again, I think my whole thing today is about the power of individuals. And I think this is how we're going to do this transformation. It's like finding, you know, we know that the changes happen at Lush because of individuals bringing permaculture into the business, bringing the issue of disaster and displacement into the business and us being out there and connecting through networks. So, you know, we funded so many of the people that are here today already. So we also increased our understanding. So I'd say education is the second aspect. And then the third aspect for me about how do we do the transformation is really, you know, the bottom up approach and engaging with the people on the ground that everyone talks about this. However, when it comes to refugee camps, all of this kind of falls onto the wayside, because we're talking about enormous organizations like the UNHTR, like IOM, you know, that are managing camps in highly volatile situations. So it's not very easy. I think it's one approach is like the grassroots approach, training of trainers, let's, you know, do bottom up, camp design, starting with gardening, but then go into other areas. That's an approach that I think a lot of people here have taken. But there is another bigger approach, which is how do we even transform the paradigm of humanitarian response? And how do we shift the billions that are being invested in creating more problems? As you solve the problems, you're creating more ecosystem degradation that are creating more carbon emissions that's going to continue increasing the problems. How do we really impact and influence these big organizations? And I think that's one of the ideas that we incubate a real alliance through LUSH. And we're beginning to form like it's almost a network of change agents within those organizations that can shift the funding. And then supporting them with evidence, supporting them with learning, offering training to their teams, really this aspect of influence that I think needs to happen now, like we really need to influence the larger organizations, collect the case studies that have some scale, and then prove that the return on investment is there. Because at this time, like we have seen, you know, organizations spending millions just to shift sewage, where you're basically taking resources out of the camp that could be used to grow firewood, that then the girls and women are having to walk four hours with security in order to collect firewood that could be grown with their own waste in the camp. So being able to show the cycles and put numbers to them, like put numbers on actual return on investment while the education piece goes there. I think it's, I really feel this is what's going to bring more investment to this issue after having been, you know, operating this field through LUSH, outside LUSH for maybe eight years. Yeah, so yeah, happy to be more specific, but yeah, I think that, and how do we make decisions? I think, I think at LUSH, because we don't have the billions of dollars that we're talking about here, we're talking about very small ground, we always focus on demonstration. So by being fully connected in the permaculture network, by also being having this, you know, community inside organizations that are working with disaster and displacement, we invite projects to apply, we find out about projects, we support, you know, their, their initial, usually with seed funding or demonstration funding, because we think that if that's a very, let's say, no-do intervention is to fund demonstration with smaller amounts of money. And we've also tried to give more long-term funding, so usually like three-year funding for specific projects that are, you know, creating, that are creating local, especially, how can I say that, that especially after disasters, like earthquakes or cyclones, like it's important that there is long-term commitment when we're talking about rebuilding livelihoods, rebuilding gardens, rebuilding shelters. But I'd say that's also a challenge, is the short-term versus long-term solution. So how do we, and funding long-term solutions requires long-term thinking. So again, it's about education and helping to change the worldview and paradigm so we can go there together, I think. Yeah. Yes. Thank you for these insights already. Oftentimes people would ask, okay, why, what is it that makes you support this or support that? And for example, maybe we can take the example of Lisa in Uganda. Why did you support them? What made them so attractive to be funded? So again, I'm going to go back to individuals, right? It's really, and we heard from other presentations here, is also when you're trying to implement a gardening project in a refugee camp, or I remember we also funded some projects in Moria and in Greece, and you always find those people, whether they are refugees, or whether they're working on the NGOs, or whether they are founders of projects that are really passionate about that issue. And it's also about trust. Do we trust that we can enter into the right relationship as funders and fundees? You know, that's also regenerative on both sides, where the ideas are also there already. And then we can also learn. And strategically, I love with Lisa, particularly, Uganda is one of the few countries where refugees actually get land, but they only get land. There is no training or seeds or support. So often the first thing is cut down the trees to sell charcoal as an initial livelihood. So with Lisa, we actually flush funded permaculture training. So we funded a permaculture practitioner to spend six months with Lisa and help set up their demonstration centers. So it's like nested holes of influence. So it's a very unique situation in Uganda. It's working with an organization that already has a wide network in the community. This is also important for us, that it's community based and there is accountability to the community and that the community are also involved. And then another is, wow, we can actually help set up permaculture demonstration sites, demonstration gardens that are very quickly going to change the lives of the people there. So you say, like, I think we went to the program after a year. And I was already talking, you know, hearing like firsthand stories with the women of increasing their nutrition, their children not getting sick, them having food all year round, being able to sell surplus in the local market, you know, how many co-benefits of that one program we could find. And we were like, this is gold for development in the humanitarian sector, right? So how can we scale those stories and make sure that those stories are reaching the people that are making changes, you know, that are really designing on how to invest the money of the big humanitarian and development agencies. Yeah, thanks, sharing. Thank you for sharing also your story. And I would like to open the discussion for the for our speakers and also for the questions from people who are also there here and also on YouTube asking different questions. So let me invite everyone and also already ask one of the questions that came here in the YouTube chat. So I just asked it and then maybe you can raise your hand and show if you want to answer to this. So one of the questions was how do you think the concept of ecosystem escalation fits into the first emergency phase of a settlement? So to which extent, yeah, can people make use of this there? Anyone? Yeah, go. It's difficult because I was with the Rohingya in the early days and we're just so many people pouring in, all UNHCR could do was to get toilets, food and housing and that was all. But at the same time, if they had been able to plan more, they would have been able to stop what the people had to do, which was to cut down the local regeneration forest to get firewood to cook food and stay warm through winter. It is really a competing, it's a conflictual situation when people are on the road and moving in and coming in. And that is a very different stage from where they've settled a little bit. But I would say to refugees about restoration, would you be happy to replant trees? Would you be happy to restore? They always say, we are so glad to have our lives. We are safe here. Well, they believe they are for that time and we hope they are, that they are willing and happy. And they're often seen as people who come in and turn a place to desert, but that's only because of big numbers. But if you approach them and say, would you like to help? They will say, yes, please, we would love to be part of restoration. And I think refugees are often seen as people who are completely traumatized and unable to do anything. But there is enormous initiative and humor and responsibility and experience in all these camps that are so often neglected, especially once you're putting fences around them and AK47s on the gate and people are more and more confined to doing less. We're actually doing more damage. It should be opening up and allowing people to do more. The cultures of Asia are far, far better at spreading projects fast and well. They're used to teaching each other. We got people to go and teach 20 or 100 people for each person who did a course. 2000 people in six weeks were starting to implement little projects. In Europe, that was a lot harder. The fights over resources is more difficult. So, you know, every situation has got a bit of difference. But I think we just have to keep knowing that what an enormous gifted resource refugees are, that we're lucky, we're working with a privileged, gifted people. And that's my experience. Camp managers are another, not so good one, nor the bureaucracies. But the refugees themselves are a really very special group to work with. Thank you. I actually can see Pauline Musaliva with us here. Pauline, can you hear us? Can you, would you like to join the conversation? Because I can feel you. Hi. Can you hear us? Yes, I'm getting you. Yeah. Pauline is working in Uganda. The refugees since 2017 and a permaculture teacher and founder of a project called Onido Social Innovation Center. Would you like to share your story? Yes, I'm Paulino and I'm based in Uganda. Like a refugee camp where I'm a refugee since 2017. And I'm a founder of, sorry, I'm a founder of Inido Social Innovation Center, an organization, an electric refugee organization that's focused on empower refugees through inclusive entrepreneurial skills to enable refugees create their own opportunities. Our journey with permaculture has started when the World Food Program has decreased the Russian food for refugees. And as a result, malnutrition, hunger crises have been, we have been facing. And then we have conceptualized another agricultural project. And this is where we met with Mora Gambo, who was one of our teacher and great supporter. And we have started with permaculture and train more refugees and equip them with tools and seeds to enable them start producing food and also respond to their basic needs. And this is a great way to build a regenerative community because after each training, our participants always came with different ideas that we have to mentor them. And as not everyone is passionate with agriculture, but we give chance to those who are not passionate also to conceptualize their ideas. For example, produce soap making, also renewable energy. And also so many projects who have been unfolding using the permaculture skills in refugee camp. And with my experience living in refugee camp, so we have realized that the most innovator, the most talented and half potential refugee. And yet we are the one who have been facing the climate change and hunger crisis just because we don't have enough support to spread or to get in action of what we are doing here in refugee camp. So it's always a pleasure to be part of this meeting and also and express what is passing in refugee camp with my experience and what we are doing. So we are proud to empower other fellow refugees in a regenerative way and also enhance our livelihood. I really think you can be proud of your work. Thank you so much for sharing. And also I see there is Bemariki with us also working in Uganda. Bemariki, would you also share your story? Yeah, thank you very much. First of all, let me say how glad I am to have met a team of constructive ideas, mentors, and my teacher. I can see Morag is there. He's my mentor. She is there. I would at her too. Yeah, hello. By the name Bemariki Bisima Dossabe, I'm a refugee from the Democratic Republic of Congo. I've been in Uganda for a decade and a half, which is 15 years. My journey, I've been a farmer, a farming for over 15 years of experience, but I never knew that there might be something that has the principles and the ethics. So when I came to meet Morag, it's not yours, I just met her through YouTube channel when I just watched the masterclass that she had been uploading on her YouTube channel. So immediately it is when I got attracted, I applied, then I joined the course. I did permaculture, design certificate, permaculture teacher certificate, until when I started teaching permaculture. Now I teach permaculture in Uganda and East Africa for refugees, especially refugees and the hosting community because we are all struggling to meet the same needs. Food is for everybody and all living things and the environment also needs energy. So that's why we include in refugees and the hosting community. So I've managed to teach currently more than 500 youth and women and foster care in both refugee settlement and refugees come. So to my side, as a person who have been refugees for decades and a half, I think and I found that permaculture is the best tool that can be used because when I was two years as a refugee in Uganda, there was no food. WP immediately stopped giving us food. We struggled. So at this moment permaculture is just bringing hope to so many because by the time I was teaching it was during COVID-19. I could find a way of keeping youth, teaching them permaculture and their family benefited a lot. Now apparently they are now harvesting to what their youth have achieved and the neighbors also coped the same. Then I came in, taught also women. They also went and they practiced in the community. We have planted the trees. We are regrinding the camp and my idea is to make it green and we restore the nature because host communities have destroyed the environment also as the refugees we are concerned, but particularly the host because they are trees. They have cut them all, selling us charcoals so that we may cook. Now we've come up with ideas that we rather teach them again to restore their nature. We plant trees. Then for us refugees we have come up with the briquette making where we could use our waste that we produce. We produce it in larger number. It is a waste to us and it is dangerous. So we are teaching them to bring it back to be useful things because nobody was hungry that he did not get charcoal or firewood. Let us use waste. We make it into briquettes. Then we use it for cooking. We don't stop only with that. We also teaching them about entrepreneurship which is hands-on skilling. We teach them gerry-making. We teach them stop-making. We also teach them financial interests whereby at the end they make a group. They start their village-saving association where if they happen to have enough vegetables they sell and the demand that they have got they put them back to the saving so that tomorrow when they get a problem they can get money from that. That is what we are doing. With the work that I have been doing I happen to be visited due to the scheme that I have made locally for the curriculum of permaculture that I have made to be using teaching locally in East Africa. The government, the minister of education and the support visited my centre. They just reviewed it and immediately they gave me an accreditation certificate. Now I am accredited nationally. Moreover we were using certificates that are accredited internationally but it wasn't known in Uganda. Now it is accredited and now I am allowed to teach wherever I want here in Uganda. That is the achievement that I have got from the support of the permaculture education institute, permayouth and the post-familitation. Thanks. Thank you for sharing. I have one more question because on our YouTube chat there is a discussion going on about this question. My Tina Ayyever says, I can't but feel that asking refugees to restore the land is actually taking advantage of people who are in a desperate situation to go and do something for the very privileged. Please, can you share your point of view on this critical question? Me? Yes. I think that refugees, as far we are concerned, we are the real people who can restore the place and re-green it. Because before we came, the time I came in Uganda, the place where we were exerted, it was a forest as a bush. We were fearing some animals but now we can't find the truth. So we are in the real people and in a position to restore it because regardless of us being refugees, because of some circumstances in our country, there are other also who are becoming refugees because of climate changes. So it's vital that we restore it. We are the good people to do it because we have experience. As far as we are concerned, if we don't put trees, let us live on normal trees. If at all at my own experience as currently, as far as I've made two food forests in the refugee settlements, I'm just encouraging people to at least have three types of trees in their home. Let us have one for shade, have two for food, which are like maybe avocado and mango. We expect to get mangoes from them. Later, we also get a good energy. We also get shade from those trees. So in fact, we are the real people to make change and bring change because we have had experience in these four decades. Ro, you want to add something? Thank you. Not really, except if you can just go into a camp and you've got cheap by jail with either containers or tents and no privacy and nothing to do all day, wouldn't you like to go out and plant some trees with a group of people and come back feeling good just on that personal level? But apart from that, it's all voluntary, no one is exploited. People are often very, very happy to have something lovely like that to group and they can learn at the same time they might be there for 20 years or as people in Lebanon, they're there for several generations in that place. I mean, none of us know what our future is. So let's put the best thing to where we are. I thought that was fabulous, Ben-Marie. That was lovely. Thank you. I would wish to add to why do we mostly focus on the youth? When I came here in Uganda before, if you count the years I have and the 15 years that I've spent, that's the road. Refugees have no other means of education and mostly it depends on daily and monthly donation which comes after tomorrow. If we empower youth, they are the leader of tomorrow. Most of people are actually to be restricted to get resettlement. Today we may leave for Uganda, we go to America or Australia. It's the same because it needs a good environment. We need the water, we need the same food. Maybe before you are there, some time even, it is a challenge to get fresh food where it needs to be put in the fridge. So we are keeping youth so that tomorrow they can transform. If we happen to go back to our country, our country is the richest and it is the poorest country. So we want to equip them with skin. Tomorrow when they go back, we transform the country. When we are going to be integrated, we transform where we are and if you happen to get resettlement to Canada, Finland and the Earth's way, we need as well to conserve the environment knowing what we are doing without doing the industrial work for daily. And restoration work is needed everywhere. So yeah, exactly if you go, if people go back to their home countries or go on to other countries, yeah. We have you with us and you were already celebrated a lot from the whole community also in the chat here. I would like to ask you if there is something we haven't tackled yet from your perspective which is important that we should bring to the discussion because you are also very well experienced with this. Thank you for bringing me into the conversation and I'm not sure I have terribly much more to add based on all the things that have already been said and already been shown. I mean I guess the thing that is challenging, I suppose, one is that just finding continual support for this work, I mean everything that has been spoken about so far has been done by me talking with Bemariki, with Paulino, with other refugees, sharing their story with the permaculture community and people donating little bits of money and I just send that 100% across. So it's only happened because of that flow and it's been really hard to find any other support for this work because there are no big NGOs in this. It's just relational, people to people, people hearing these stories and going oh the work that they're doing is incredible. So then on the flip side of that I also find it really challenging to find the platforms to keep telling the amazing stories that are happening. I don't know where to keep sharing them. There's only so many stories that I can tell before people kind of seem to be getting overloaded with the amazing stories but there's so many more to share. So I would love some support in trying to find out where can that be told and where can we find more support because what's happening with say with just for example with Bemariki is that he is getting so noticed with the work that he's doing because he documents it with videos and all sorts of things and he's popped one in the chat there I can see. And you can follow the link to his YouTube channel and see heaps and heaps of them. People start approaching him, other camps. So he's kind of going from camp to camp and every time he goes to another camp he'll bring someone else along. So Paulino has done that as well to go to another camp with him and then go back to that camp. So there's this budding and these apprenticeships that are happening. He has so many requests we simply can't keep up with him. So it's just really looking at how can we within this broader network find more support for this ground up so very integrated work that is being done that and like he said is now acknowledged and recognized by the government for the work that he's done. It's one little story I just want to end up with because he was doing such good work and he got called in by the office of prime minister and they said so why is it you only do this work with with the refugees? What about the host community? And so that's when he started doing work as well with the host community and that's that's the video that's in there. Thank you. There's we just talked about the big organizations that might also be involved and there is Isan from UNHCR in Bangladesh with us. Isan would you also share your story in a brief session? Hello Tina. Yeah thank you for organizing this very timely initiative and that was really a nice introduction and hearing all the experiences stories and the practitioners experience from around the world that was really great. So I know that we are actually limited by time here but just want to share very briefly about on our experience from here in Bangladesh. So for us UNHCR here in Bangladesh ecosystem restoration protection for the refugees and climate action these three actually goes hand in hand. So what we did from the we are lucky here that in Bangladesh we had the chance to start from the very beginning of the emergency in 2017 and we did some assessment to identify the drivers first what to be addressed. So so far after three years of gathering of data now we now 100 percent refugees are covered with liquid petroleum gas for to meet their energy needs and there were other alternatives too but you know since refugees come here in Bangladesh it's really so space scarce and with this I also want to echo with Ruth who was saying about Uganda that in Uganda they have huge access to land well at least a good access to land and I had the chance to work in Uganda especially in Ramon that it was a settlement from where the miracle is what was saying. So here in Bangladesh we now have cover is of 100 percent liquid petroleum gas and in 2019 we did an assessment with the IUCN and one local university and we have found that demand for fuel for refugee household reduced by 80 percent and for the host community reduced by 50 percent yeah we also provided LPG and to set to the refugees also to reduce the vulnerability of slope failure and then flash flood and others we actually used this biological investigation model. So so far we have brought more than 1100 acres of liquid land within the refugee camp under mixed vegetation and survival rate is also good more than 80 percent and then to understand whether our deforestation activities are actually contributing we have been monitoring the soil water and air in and around the refugee camp and from the soil assessment now we know that some of the soil parameters like nutrient and carbon those are actually responsive to our deforestation activities as you know that soil parameters are usually static in nature it takes a long to see a change but if these activities could be done as you are saying that these regenerative activities then at some point of time we see some changes that we are seeing some early symptoms and to assess that we wanted to know about biodiversity recolonisation as well and we have found that in our pilot deforestation site there are 134 spaces of amphibians, reptiles, mammals and other spaces as well of those 17 are globally locally and globally threatened so we are fortunate kind of we are optimistic that and the good thing is that we have community in the centre for all of our activities we consult with the diffusive and also in the host community with the host communities we have developed a supply chain of planting materials and with LPG and other activities some livelihood access has also been created for the diffuses and for the host communities so we are following a kind of landscape based restoration model and watershed restoration thank you so much Tina and the colleagues here thanks thank you for sharing your and also for doing your yeah this important work um we have a lot of of conversation going on in zoom and in youtube and a lot of questions also i i'm afraid we won't tackle them all but here's one that might be interesting for also for thinking about next steps and and and also thinking how can we bring this together um Christina Pianca is asking refugee camps are different so some are temporary some are others become semi-permanent permanent and some are well for years and decades now so what we would be the best type of camp or to introduce ecosystem restoration practices and build a proof of concept or whatever whatever can be shared to to to multiply this like a guideline or a proof of concept but but what do you think um is quite um well maybe also easy to to adopt Esan you are raising hand uh yeah thank you so much so um from my experience and so from the perspective of UNHC we are now following a kind of alternative to camps modality not in many places you will find a camp like in Uganda they have access to land in Bangladesh they don't have access to land and then in many places we have urban refugees so that is a really very good question for such types of modalities we need to adopt different approaches like for urban refugees one approach to be there but for some countries where refugees have access to land or are with the host community living then that could be linked with the landscape restoration including the host community so um and when they are within the camp then host government, UNHC, UNHC and other actors that could be working together thank you thank you Esan Ruth? Yeah just to say um because I think the permanence is really an issue um especially around like tree planting or other ecosystem restorations can also be seen as a type of permanence and it's very hard for the host countries or the host communities to accept any measures that that signify that that camp is going to be permanent this is this is like a real struggle um so I do think countries where as Esan said like Uganda where there is access to land I think that's an easy an easier place to go for ecosystem restoration and in other places is whatever has an immediate benefit so really looking at because some restoration or any type of more regenerative practice to deliver an immediate benefit that's going to reduce cost actively so whether you know you also mentioned Esan, like more natural sewage treatment systems or working with surface water drainage by also you know engaging in in different parts of more regenerative work it can be about fuel and cooking um it can be about stabilizing the land so I think using not the ecosystem restoration for the sake of ecosystem restoration but rather for a very specific way of reducing cost in the camp like I think when we're working at that scale um yeah that I find the strategic approach that works. I see I would like to come to the conclusion round but Jenny maybe real quick to this question. Well I was just gonna recognize again that you know and agree with that camps are all different but I was going to go back to something that Fatini said earlier on about those the camp where they're in containers facing each other and there's a small piece of land available in front of those containers very very small piece of land behind and I think it's it's good to recognize that even you know growing on a very very small at shelter level can have huge benefits for people personally that can restore hope dignity a belief in the future for people on a very personal level and that is is almost that's kind of where it starts and then where you're working in camps that people don't have personal access to land you as long as you have a kind of neighbor to neighbor network going on for gardening then you can move quite quickly to a community-based approach where a piece of land can be shared and that in our experience there's a difference between IDP and refugee access to land within Kurdistan so refugees have more have more space and because the camps are funded differently so IDPs have very little space at their shelters generally this is a generalization it's not you know again there's differences across camps but you know we're moving towards that sort of community-based gardening model for IDPs because of that lack of personal space for growing but we have found container growing you know vertical growing on buildings you know people are repurposing all sorts of different containers to grow things in food and flowers actually and I think there is that real for us you know as lemon tree trust we have found that a recognition that flowers are you know ornamental gardening if you like is is just as important as that access to fresh food so people are going to want to grow food people want to grow fresh herbs salad crops you know things that they're using every day but it's the it's the access to beauty and you know the the flowering plants I mean the rose is is the sort of you know epitome of the camps that we're working in everybody grows roses and I think that sort of shelter level benefit is worth stating again. Thank you Jenny I would really like to invite all of you to also in the chat write please if you're on youtube and zoom what would help you to take action what would help you to really take your work to the next level and maybe a very short round because we are running out of time but also from our speakers in this round here I would like to ask you this question so how can people here in this round and people watching support you to achieve your your mission and your project now even better and yeah please take it really briefly what is it the one thing that we can support you on if you have an actual project or so who would like to start growth growth. Well I don't know so much money as advice I think we need to form a really strong global structure for permaculture for refugees and we've got promise in the Middle East we've got East Africa we've got this part of the world but I don't really understand structures and things so we've been going as a loose network second thing is the desperate need for translations because if you look at the Rohingya and then you look at Malaysia you've got the Mon you've got the Chan you've got all those tribal groups we really must get documents and and speakers into that those languages because English is such an imperial dominant language thank you thank you I would like to be next Peter. I'm really struggling what we need I'd love to I'd love to be part of a community of people who are thinking about this and maybe Ro we can provide such a structure because that's what we now have for the 41 camps there's a structure where they for the first time in forever find a place where they can meet with each other regularly what's up knowledge platforms Facebook whatever the communities are I'm really curious if we know people want to do this where can they bring what they have learned already and where is that available I've read papers about it I've heard what's being talked about here but where can we show those examples that should be the first step in inspiration where can we show this what is the platform we can use to start sharing that because based on that inspiration others would want to move in and then where can we access that knowledge and bring that to people that want to get started maybe we can play a role there I don't know there's so many great initiatives out there already I'm not about to compete with anyone but if we can collaborate that would be great I see Ruth saying realigns.org and I agree what I've heard so far yes and the culture for refugees has been trying to put everything we can get and document up there as well but if refugees are truly to own this then the language thing is going to be important as well so I guess we've got a couple of platforms and that's the case also in restoration for people still living at home so much is in English but that's not the language most people speak that live in the great areas so that is a big problem absolutely. So yeah Ruthie, Patini. I'll elaborate with her every one day but once I think we have the first pilot project done I think then I will be able to show what we're actually doing and then see how we can work together. Yeah so this is exactly what I think is going to be like the next step just find this way. Jenny, Ruth you want to add something? Just to reiterate I think it's about collaboration isn't it that's why we're all here I think you know we have these pockets of activity happening and we've got so much crossover there's so much that we could learn from each other I certainly feel like I've learned so much today. I think we need to find a way to share this I completely agree with Roe about the language barrier and for a lot of this and one of the projects that we're hoping to get some help from Mars with actually this year is to kind of take forward this idea that we have about a gardener to gardener network so we know that there is so much knowledge and experience sharing that happens within the camp communities that we work within and that's not just about growing although of course growing experience and stories is great but it's also about sharing life experiences and supporting each other through that language of gardening but we know that you know in the community gardens we work in women come together to take tea every morning they don't just share stories of gardening they share stories of their lives and that is a massively beneficial experience but how do we scale that how do we bring their experiences and their stories to a wider group and it has to be from them so we have this idea that a gardener to gardener network some kind of you know based in technology but but some way that people can share their you know share their experiences or share their love of a particular plant or you know share how they're how they're working in their own language across barriers you know country barriers across continents and so we're kind of you know with that's something that we've started to think about but I'd welcome you know ideas on that welcome you know your thoughts about whether that's a good idea or whether whether you can see benefits for your own organizations with that and but definitely sharing the information sharing our collective need to do this is is is something that I think would be beneficial like the strong table was also supposed to do so yeah Ruth is there something you want to add on it could I ask something yes in the countries that you're all working in do you only work in English or do you work in the local language as well local language local languages like which means you have the translation in Arabic or Farsi or French that that would actually cover some of my problems because we have to have all the languages and that is the most expensive thing in a project is translating everything into the to Farsi Arabic French Urdu but we're finding some of our you know we're not just relying on the written language as well we're finding that you know face-to-face video calls to actually explain things you know in in real time or or as small videos because not everyone you know reads so podcasts as well yeah yeah yeah and we've been collecting key data in Arabic Farsi French from Africa and where we can and we know it is we're trying to get a list of stuff in refugee languages any time we teach you we get the key words out Sarah's gone from green relief but she's doing it in all the local languages the other thing I want to add being in a camp might be a terrible thing but most people there will probably have some sort of secondary disaster as well but I think we need to be looking at it can be a drought it can be a volcano it can be floods and cyclones as in tropical countries and I think there's some responsibility to be looking at something very very resilient for knowing that any primary disaster to be a refugee is likely to be succeeded by a secondary disaster and that is the way we need to think even it's not negative it's just being prepared yeah so thank you all for for sharing all of this I think we could go on for hours and there will be another round table today so from now in three hours there's another round table if you're still awake so for this part thank you so much for sharing the speakers the surprise guest and also for the youtubers let me let it wrap it up quickly to say okay what are the next steps what can we do right now or what is the the thing that we can talk about so first if you haven't done so far some of you have registered for this event and this will also be your key to keep to be yeah that we can keep you in the loop about the newest things of this network here so please register with this google link that we also already shared with you and also in youtube so that we can send more information and for the next event then we have also began to document what what was said today here in a kind of a online whiteboard which looks like this so melissa the Raj thank you very much for documenting already here a lot of things like for the key points of the speeches from roll from roll from Jenny and so on so we yeah collected some of the the main parts and will send this also to the people who have registered for the for the for the event and then there is the question okay what can we what would be interesting to have as the next step so it can be guidelines but also a platform as i've understood you to share the stories and to show that there are practice projects and then learn from each other even more so that we can yeah multiply the all the good ideas and there will be a next event or next events and plural in autumn where we also include experts that like like today but also from refugee side perspective and also from politics and design thinking so today in three hours there is another round table with different speakers so we invited to join there too it's at 3 p.m utc so and if you cannot join a small problem there will be also a recording and i think what we've seen today is that really there is a lot of potential in this topic and transforming camps in a regenerative way can really be a fresh source of hope for people who have lost their homes and oftentimes also a part of their identity with ecosystem restoration projects we can provide an opportunity to recover to recover dignity and also joy and confidence and also the deep understanding of connectedness as a basis for peace so that we might transform from from alone on this journey to all one and culture our lives and also the soils so thank you all for being here for sharing and see you maybe in the next round tables or on the well on the other event i wish you a very happy and world environment day and um say goodbye and farewell thank you thank you tina for pulling all this together thank you tina thank you all and everyone else