 Welcome once again to the breakfast on plus TV Africa final conversation this morning is going to the Judiciary and the little bits of chaos here and there the cgn first of all summoning six chief judges And of course the Nigerian bar association chairman of Lumideak but a calling out lawyers who according to him by Judgment this morning. We're speaking with a lawyer and make out bar. Good morning. Thanks for joining us Good morning. Go to have your breakfast. All right. I'm going to start with a quote from the letter put out by Lumideak but at the NBA president in it He says these developments in our courts are antithetical to the actualization of the just society an Independent judiciary that we all aspire to and they all run contrary to everything we teach and hold there as a profession So I'm going to start with that. Do you agree with Lumideak but do you think that these incidents these You know different interpretations of the law by different courts and different judges a Complete embarrassment to what we call judiciary here in Nigeria I think it's right on the point What is playing out now is something that Every legal practitioner Indeed every Nigerian Should be ashamed of especially legal practitioners. It hasn't it hadn't before now gone this low a complete embarrassment your lawyer and you know from What you know has been said it it basically points out that lawyers and you know judiciary Officers have you know been you know in the middle of this whole chaos. They've been the ones Helping politicians and maybe rich wealthy Nigerians by judgments from from judges What would you say about that? Have you? Ever been in his situation like that. Can you confirm that lawyers actually do help politicians by judgment? Well, I think it's pretty of yours. It's very apparent in the first place Every another legal practitioner knows issues about jurisdiction especially the forum forum jurisdiction Where do you go and in which court? At which place to litigate a matter The issue is not that there is a dispute The issue is where do you take it to? It even simply takes sometimes Just a little sense that it's common sense to know that there are issues emanating from point a Like if you cannot just conveniently Take two points be to litigate But the the problem we have especially is that It is not just the head the whole aspects of the judiciary and legal practice legal practices, but There is there are souls all over the place So that of course to to find a solution problem We have to go to the head and that is we go to the judiciary And we go to the point They see there the Supreme Court. I mean if we have to tell ourselves the truth The Supreme Court itself has not been free from some of the problems Bedevelling the judiciary can we be very factual? There is a moral body here How did the current head of the judiciary Come into office Is he not by way of an expatriate order? How was the former CJM removed? Now, so there is a moral body Here that is the problem. I cannot completely blend the politicians Of course the politicians The problems are from there but if the people at the hem of affairs at the judiciary do not dance to the tunes of The politicians the politicians will not succeed the lawyers will come to Advocate for the politicians will not succeed. Sorry miss Alcora. That is where we have to start solving the problem The judiciary. All right. So miss Alcora This is from your from your last take Are you then saying that the Chief Justice of Nigeria is not even morally in the right position to fix this Because of the way that he also got into office If we have to tell ourselves the truth That's just it. We cannot escape that particular statement Oh, well, that's interesting. So what what do you hope? That the CJN and the meeting with the six chief judges would achieve You know, is this really would you describe this as just playing to the gallery? I do not even Understand the point of a meeting with them I think disciplinary measures Should be activated. So I think it's not just a meeting with the CJN it should be operating the whole gamut of the Glacier service commission the disciplinary measures should be put in place. They should be activated. They are there and I know during the tenure of the Formal CJN and the one before him also there were measures that we are being taken against this kind of thing and Certain many judges have started Being careful in not endangering their career By dancing to the tunes of Politicians and their lawyers that way But over the past Two years or they are about We have seen an upsurge of this kind of thing And and you know the disciplinary measures that you're speaking of now who would you who would you say? You know should be in position to and ensure that these disciplinary measures do not fail Because you know meeting after meeting may not change anything Of course is the judicial service commission headed by the CJN You see there is a difference between the judicial service commission headed by the CJN and the CJN Those are two different bodies. The CJN is an office of his own But the CJN acting as the head of the judicial service commission is a difference in all together So and I think is the CJN the judicial service commission That should be able to handle this not just the CJN as A person handling an office just that office of the CJN All right final question to you miss Akbar If we continue, you know it with a situation like this. What are your fears concerning? Nigeria's judicial system generally What do you think it might turn out to be like in the next couple of years if this challenge isn't fixed today? Of course that we have seen Unfortunately That over the years the respect for the judiciary has been going down. It's been winning but even at that I believe Most of the judges I can tell you many of the judges are people committed to their calling It's just a few rotting eggs there that give the bad name to the judiciary I also want to say that The implication of these goals beyond the judiciary The whole issue of our democracy is Endangered it is a state office being completely ridiculed By this kind of thing Emakar Akbar Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us and for your views on this very very important issue this morning Wish you a very interesting Wednesday ahead my pleasure All right pretty interesting taker he has there saying that the CJN is not even in a position or morally should not even be in a Position to address this issue, you know looking at the way that he got into that office Interested thanks for joining us on the breakfast this morning This is where we wrap up if you want to catch up on these conversations remember it's simply at plus TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram and Same with our YouTube channel at plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle. I am Osal Gye of Boa have a great Wednesday ahead