 Welcome to the original gangsters podcast. I'm your host Scott Bernstein. We're gonna start doing these kind of producer episodes I'm gonna start calling them be For in honor of March Madness, I'm gonna start calling these the the mid major episodes Not quite at the high major level where we're doing the long-form hour to hour and a half interviews But not at the five to ten minute low majors just in some mid majors now kind of throwing at ya 3035 minute episodes talking about Something that's kind of in the news headlines and then contextualizing it throwing in some history so Benny my producer is gonna join me today. Thank you for coming on board, Benny. Of course Scott Hey, can you feel me? How are you feeling? Doing all right doing all right son is finally getting out there getting warmer up here in Detroit Yeah, so we're into baseball Detroit Tigers got their first dove of the season over on the South Side of Chicago and as the season as the MLB season is Coming out of the shoot. You got a huge Gambling scandal that may or may not Take down one of the most dynamic iconic Baseball players in recent memory both in Asia and here, you know, Tony a Lot of a lot more questions and answers at this point But I want to just kind of chop it up a little bit me and Benny kind of tell you what What it what we know at this point in this five million dollar gambling debt accusations of theft getting into Otani's bank account his interpreter we're gonna kind of lay it all out and What the fallout could be? If any and then again, just talk a little bit about history and the baseball and the underworld I know this was Pretty shocking when I mean when it came out a week or two ago that there had been a Wires that were flagged Money wires that were flagged million dollar money wires Going from Otani's Bank account to bank accounts link to the Colombo crime The New York Mafia and a book making ring in Florida, but I think it also has some ties out in California. The guy's name was Eric Boyer Doesn't have any big time record, but He popped up in an investigation by the FBI into Colombo's and their activity down in Florida. This was the guy that $4.8 million gambling debt was paid to him from Otani's account it there is There's been 15 different stories that have been coming out over the last couple of weeks So it's kind of hard to keep track initially the interpreter came out and Said his name is Mizuhara, and then if a Mizuhara, right and it's been and he's the gentleman on the right Otani's former translator, right who was fired by the Dodgers last week And this is from what I understand. This was the guy that was with him every Basically like every minute of every day almost a family member very close Otani has a very small circle. He's very guarded and At first this was the interpreter saying that These were my gambling debts and that Otani Paid them off for me and this wasn't just him saying this This was the line that was coming from the Otani camp His representatives his agents the LA Dodgers and Major League Baseball and this this held for about 40 hours 72 hours and then Otani came out and held a press conference saying that was a lie We were duped I didn't pay his gambling debts. I didn't know anything about his gambling debts I've never gambled in my life. I've never placed a bet in my life Yeah, here's a couple of these go and he stole stole stole the money for me stole five million dollars for me and paid the debts Yeah, they're saying 4.5 million 4.5 And some of the quotes from Otani is I never bet on baseball any other sports or never have asked Anybody to do so on my behalf and I've never went through a bookmaker to bet on sports Up until a couple of days ago. I didn't even know this was happening. So that's his story Press conference on March 25th I just just just nothing adds up for me in this I'm Granted and I will you know full transparency. I am naturally inclined to think there's something shady going on so I kind of come I guess there's a little confirmation by us possibly But uh I'm not going to cast dispersions right now at Otani But I just this seems like a house of cards to me the these stories just There's How how does the guy get access to his account? Yeah, I don't know I was talking with scott beforehand I was like maybe because he's the english translator And his bank needs somebody who can communicate with otani's camp in english He gave him access Which is sloppy. You never really want to give anybody your personal account number How does it furthermore? How does otani not know? That his best friend interpreter Has a gambling problem to the degree of racking up four and a half million dollars extreme Gambling problem for somebody that was making I read 85 thousand dollars a year from the uh From the from the baseball team That was it Only 85,000. Ah, so there's probably a little bit of greed and jealousy in there But you're with this guy every day and he has no idea that you're gambling to that degree And he has access to your bank accounts and the story that not just the The thing that I I think I'm the the red flags that are screaming to me was not just that they changed stories But how the story changed and how All the adults in the room first, you know So-called adults in the room the non otani non interpreter people That the the freaking did I say that did I say the that he played for the daughters? Oh, tani. Yeah I don't think you did yet place for the Los Angeles. I don't know if I just signed a huge 10 years 700 million dollar contract um This all season correct. Yes. Yeah, so that And he came over from the angels Yeah, biggest contract in MOB history He's a unicorn Pitcher hitter the likes of we haven't seen since Babe Ruth um and This was coming from the Dodgers And otani's entire team not just his The the baseball organization he worked for but his entire business team. So they were all cosigning with the interpreter was saying for Not a long team a lot of long time, but it wasn't like The interpreter said this and then an hour later. It's refuted Well, it was like everybody was on board with that narrative until otani's press conference What was the interpreter's story So the story was that Otani knew about my debt and stepped up and paid and stepped up and paid my debt for me and the Organization sent representatives into the locker room to address this issue with the team as the story was breaking and said that and told the team this that otani was just being a good friend and Covered his boy's debts and it was nothing nefarious And then on march 25th When otani gets in front of the press it's an entirely different story. I was you know this guy I didn't know anything about anything and i'm out five or 4.5 mil And I was betrayed By a close friend Yeah, yadda yadda yadda So the implications are Quite epic. I mean if if there's any evidence even coming close to linking to this gambling debt um In multiple ways, I think even if it wasn't his money if he knew That the interpreter was betting and there he was possibly giving him information it It would be the biggest scandal and It professional sports history, maybe So here's my theory Maybe i'm right. I'm wrong uh They were fine with that story because it was the truth That otani did pay off his gambling bets But once they realized otani could be suspended and and by paying off that by admitting you're paying off by admitting knowledge of the debt By admitting you paid off gambling debts Then the story changed Because they probably didn't know That he'd be in trouble for it Well, yes, but I don't That that i'm not saying that that's not a kind of a it's a theory and no, but and I think that's a natural uh Inclination or knee jerk to think that but when you start to scrape beneath that if you're the the organization And you're going into the locker room Telling your team. Oh, don't worry. It was just him covering The interpreter's debts again, if you like extrapolate from that That's acknowledging that You knew there were were gambling issues I'm saying that your your it might have been you're almost negligent by the if you're the organization to go in On record with the team in front of you and saying anything like that Even if it's true Okay, so how was that a problem if he just knew about his Translator because he knew about it. This guy's so close to the to him in the team. He's in the locker room Do you know how much knowledge? Oh, okay gain? I get from access to the to the behind the scenes and and these are Point spreads. Oh, it is football and basketball board in baseball uh, you know, they're the way the beddings and baseball is very intricate, but If you actually know what you're doing baseball betting actually gives the better a little bit more of an advantage over the house So it's it's very delicate Uh and sensitive the information you could get in the locker room in terms of injuries and pitchers and Because he was a former employee of the Dodgers He wasn't allowed to gamble Especially on baseball or I I guess we don't know exactly Do we know exactly what sports the bets were being placed on? I do not know. Yeah, so I think some of it. I was told was Or some of it that I've learned was a bats overseas not in a major american unprofessional sports, but I I'm obviously everybody wants to know like what exactly were Were the uh Who was he betting on what sports and what teams? But and we don't I guess it's not public knowledge, I guess exactly The particulars of this right now. Well, obviously we'll know soon. I mean, this is This is uh ever evolving as I'd like to say. Um, I read some stories That seem to think that he's Trending towards being in the clear uh And these are the first these were from some pretty you know major outlets uh, not super super mainstream, but You know outlets with reputations And I don't this is like I hope I for his sake. I hope so but I don't know how you can look at everything right now and speak. Oh, yeah Makes sense. Well the mlb wants to brush this over as badly as possible You know the biggest star in baseball and and let's let's also let's address the elephant in the room here What do you think pete rose is thinking this whole time? I think he made a statement about it. I'm sure he did when I think he jumped on uh, uh, social media Instagram or something right when this was all going on. Um you know, I know, uh Oh, I shouldn't say firsthand, but really really good secondhand information about the people that uh Pete rose was betting with through his mlb career and they were all mob affiliated mob Uh, my book making operations run by made members of the mafia Uh, I know don in philadelphia when he was with the fillies Went in world series, uh in 80. He was betting through the punjatories I know in chicago When he was in since when he was with the reds Um, Cincinnati doesn't have an organized crime group so I think chicago was taking all the book book making action there And he was betting through uh a number of crews in chicago. I know the the basso brothers um were one of the a big uh Book making tandems that he was placing bets through but um I'm kind of conflicted on it on one on one hand I understand, uh banning him Because you're compromising the integrity of the game. He was placing bets from the dugout And I just don't believe he wasn't Somehow, you know, his whole thing was I would never bet against my team to lose and I was ultra competitive and I was betting on myself as the manager but um Well, the question is if show hay is found guilty What's the punishment? uh, well in This situation uh, you're gonna have legal Implications criminal. Yeah. Well just for just the fact of just the money like That's you're you're not placing a bet with mgm and paying mgm 5 million and and mgm's reporting the The debt and the payoff of the debt to the government like this is This is taxable income Got it. And you said the bookie is connected with the the bookie. That's that's that took the 4.5 million. His name's eric bowyer I don't know if i'm pronouncing his name right and yes, he's connected to the colombo crime family and their south florida crew So this has you know direct links into the mafia in new york and a major major mob crime family and uh It's really serious I mean really really serious All right gut reaction. What do you think's gonna happen? My gut reaction is by mid-season. He'll be suspended And they'll they'll be a huge investigation into this what the result of that investigation. I don't know Uh, but I'm I'm guessing that they've they've got Unless there are things out there and it's very possible that there are things behind the scenes that the public doesn't know and that otani's people have been able to bring receipts or whatever to prove his some type of firewall between him and um Miss ahara and that it was legitimately he was a victim Then you know this will pass and pass quickly I have my doubts and I would say that In the next couple months, he'll be suspended and no mlb will assign some like the way that that pete rose they There was a whole investigation into him that then led to him being It could have been an investigation that led to him being exonerated So That's my prediction that there'll be an invest there'll be an mlb internal investigation into this but just to you know for the for the last five ten minutes, um Talk a little bit about some history uh the black sock scandal 1919 that's the most famous baseball gambling scandal outside of pete rose and good movie Ape Man Out if if anybody wants to see a great movie about the scandal Um, I would recommend it charlie sheen john cusack um some other really good actors and db sweeney played uh shrewless joe jackson And that was that was a world series against the cincinnati rads. I believe uh that was fixed by arnold rostin the kind of the first major jewish gangster of the 20th century in the Modern media age and he mentored mire lansky and lucky luciano went on to found the modern day american mafia So that was a that was a pretty big deal They uh They were acquitted at trial though. It should be noted They were acquitted in a court of law In a federal trial the black socks of um of fixing the world series, but the major league baseball found them guilty and uh kicked all those guys out of all the The conspirators were kicked out of uh mlb ban for life That's why two of the greatest players of all time pete rose because of his gambling scandal and shrewless joe jackson Are not in the whole thing What's your take on on pete rose? Do you think he uh deserved to be there especially with all of the um age you know the the steroids and You can kind of Split hairs there what what was worse and who deserves to be out? I guess they're all out I mean in the steroid era there were so many people doing it. Um, I don't consider it that much of a sin To the integrity of the game like others do Uh, you still have to be able to hit the baseball um I mean the argument for barry bonds is Take away the home runs He's still a whole family. Yeah Very, but yeah, exactly and like I said so many people were doing it during that era um A lot of us will never know the amount, but it's kind of uh unwritten uh rumor that Many of them were on the juice Oh, I think there were a lot of and then it's it's also kind of It's very telling When you see How the media or the public or even the game itself Picks and chooses Who who? The the stigma sticks to Because david orteez was found doing uh Steroids or hg h and it it really never stuck there. It hasn't really stuck them at all The way it stuff to bear bonds And part of that has to do with Big poppy was beloved and berry bonds was Quite the lightning round I just don't consider it the same level of cheating as corking a bat Or resonant the glove where it's a obvious advantage in the game as opposed to Increasing your testosterone to work out harder and be a better athlete um People disagree on with me on that say i'm a piece of shit, but I I don't see it as a the same level of cheating um You still have to be able to hit the baseball. You still have to do those reps in the gym And and this is even more splitting hairs, but like we said bonds You take away all the homeruns bonds is still a whole famer If you take away all the homeruns Is maguire or sosa? I was gonna say yeah, I don't or I don't think they are I don't it's it's yeah so Black scouts black socks scandal. Um, I know that You had some pretty major drug scandals in mlb in the 80 or a single drug scandal that was kind of like a combination of different drug Networks and drug cultures in different locker rooms around the country um Eventually there was a trial uh I think it was all in the early 80s with mlb guys There were some allegations of betting there uh, but it was just it it kind of Reaked of a little bit of a witch hunt in the sense that they were going after more of the They were trying to focus a spotlight and embarrass and punish the doers More than the dealers because the doers were mlb all-stars And the dealers were no name literally caters the the guy that was the I think the caterer for the fillies and like Pittsburgh pirates like the catering teams were the that would bring the food into the locker rooms after the game before the game We're moving all the blow like Across state lines different teams different players But I know there was a trial and and a a lot of these guys Had to get on the stand and name names and point fingers and it it was all over recreational use seemed kind of like uh You're focusing you know these if anything you should be getting these guys into rehab um working on the The root issues of the drug abuse more than Shame shame shame everyone knows your name If Keith Hernandez as I know was was kind of the face of that Ronald rake and just say no right right Drugs aren't cool kids you know, um If we just you know end it here in Detroit There's there's been some interesting Dovetails between the Detroit Tigers and members of the motor city underworld going all the way back to the um 20s and 30s with the purple game um Who are my distant relatives? uh purple gang was Founded and led by the four Bernstein brothers Abe Ray Joe and Izzy And they were uh, actually bigger than the italian mob in Detroit at their height and the italian mob and them worked together um Hank Greenberg Uh was a very very close friend of the Bernstein brothers And he talks about this this isn't the secret he writes about it in his biography And it's auto is autobiography and um He actually used to go up to prison When they were locked up and he'd bring the tigers with him in the in the um Uh on like charity for like charity games At the prison at the prison Like he'd bring up all the all these like future holofame tigers and they'd have like a weekend off or whatever um And they'd all drive up to marquette Or they'd go to jackson And they'd play charity softball events against the inmates This is what in the 1930s 40s 40s. This is this is when all the purples were locked up in the 40s as This 20th century moved along You had a an incident in 1967 in the Detroit tigers pennant race with star picture denny mclean um, it's a pretty infamous uh altercation rumor mythology uh Tigers won the world series in 68 denny mclean 131 games last picture to win 30 right and uh he um In 67 the tigers lost the pennant to the red sox by one game um and denny mclean missed I want to say two weeks, which would have been like three or four starts Back then they were on you know short turnarounds Uh after He claims that he stubbed his toe over labor day I think it was over labor at some point some point late in the season late august early september He claims he stubbed his toe broke his toe and that's why he had to miss those two or three weeks of the pennant race the story that I've been told by First people that saw it firsthand people that did it uh that he got his foot was Toe broken by the jackalones for uh welching on a gambling debt So you can kind of play the what-if game there uh 1967 if he was You know you lost by one game your best picture You lost the pennant by one game your best picture misses two weeks of the pennant race Maybe the tigers went to two world series 67 and 68 um The famous story is that they were on a yacht out of the detroit river and denny had been Not paying his debts and billy jack aloney Saw him and called him over And uh denny was from chicago and he was a little chubby and uh Billy jack allegedly said to him. I don't know how they do things in chicago But in this town we pay our debts fat boy And then either billy himself or one of billy's bodyguards like held the guy down and broke stuff um denny denies that to just be clear um, and then I know in the early 70s dizzy dean who was a I think he's a hall of fame picture from the st. Louis cardinals or st. Louis browns He got caught up in a bookmaking scandal with the detroit mob. Oh, he was retired, but he was uh Booking bets for uh I think former pro athletes maybe current pro athletes And then I know in The late 70s ron la floor who was A tigers all-star center fielder who had had this miraculous Rags the riches story where he had been a criminal Locked up in jackson prison Discovered by the jackaloni crew by the way There were some jackaloni crew members Uh at jackson that saw this guy playing baseball They had a tie into billy martin who at that time was the manager of the tigers They literally called him from prison and said you got to come see this guy And they went and scouted him and they signed him out of prison. He became an all-star um and They ended up trading him in the end of 1979 And the reason they traded him was that he was spending way too much time with the jackalones and the black mob wing of the jackalones who had perpetrated what was called the michigan democratic Club massacre in uh july of 1979 where they cut off three people's heads And uh right when that happened mlb told uh According to my sources mlb told the tigers. They had to get ronald florida detroit and they they traded him to the uh You're the expose or the white sucks You know, I'd say you want to talk about uh ruining your heroes for your for yourself when you start to learn this stuff as a reporter Yeah, a lot of skeletons in uh detroit sports That people don't know about yeah. Yeah. Well, so uh, we'll see what happens with otani Um, but I had a good time here benny. Thanks for joining me buddy Of course Um, we'll be uh, you know, we'll be rolling out some more of these mid major episodes Um, I'm kind of I'm kind of feeling it. I like it. So, uh, hope you guys enjoyed it check back very soon for a new Long-term interview that we're doing I'm really excited about to share with you guys very soon and more quick hitters keep me up to date with everything What's going on in the american underworld for benny scott burnstein og pod