 All right, anybody want to add anything to the to the agenda and you can do that at any point in the call, of course, but anything else to highlight up front. I was just going to introduce myself to the group I think some of you may have seen some messages for me on Gitter and some interest that I have in trying to contribute. Essentially the pipeline graph view from Blue Ocean back into classic in a way that we can leverage that visualization there so if I can definitely talk about at the end. I'm sorry new first time joining the SIG so a little getting used to the to the process here. Yeah, absolutely welcome very much Cliff. I'm more than happy to chat about that today or at any point in the future but but yeah absolutely welcome. We have a small group today but we're trying to grow this SIG and we're excited to have you. Thanks Felix for adding that. Cool. Well, with that introduction let's hop into our first our first item here. Wait a second so would you like to add any, any item to the to today's agenda. I'm sorry was that a question for me. Yeah, is there any item or topic you would like to add to today's agenda. Honestly, I would say probably not yet. I just kind of wanted to sit in and introduce myself. I think I probably have some time to like maybe put together a PR and some experimentation. I think maybe once I reach that point then maybe it'd be a good time for us to talk and unless folks want to just generally chat about, you know, back porting blue ocean stuff into into into UX but kind of defer to y'all who have been on the call before. It's nice having you here. We appreciate any. We welcome everybody willing to contribute. Yeah, we should pull Thor in. Awesome. Well, feel free to add stuff but no pressure and if you want to share in the next call sounds great. We keep this we keep this open so you can always add stuff even before the schedule is created for the next one you could just create it if you want to. Cool. Without further ado, jumping into this looks like our only item for today. Seeking feedback on this concept for design guidelines. So something that we as a SIG and we're missing good number of people today but something that we as a group have talked about in the past is gathering up a lot of the baseline styles and resources that we shared and looked at together and discussed and iterated upon through this SIG stuff like the color palette and other design artifacts and guidelines that have been generated throughout the past few months or throughout the past year I should say having those in one central place and having that sort of resource. I was thinking about this throughout the past couple of weeks and also thinking about how current state of this particular SIG is that we have resources kind of distributed around the web. Which is not inherently bad but I thought it would be really nice if we could have everything kind of brought into one collective place and and have a bit more order to how we run this group potentially and then also having a bit more of a central location for those design resources. So I created a very simple site here. This is temporarily live but I can take it offline in a moment's notice and there's nothing, nothing none of us have seen here before really what this is an attempt to kind of gather all of our different resources into one place. I'm going to zoom in a bit. So what this is essentially you get it Jenkins user experience SIG overview. These are all things that most of us know but Cliff this be really valuable for you to poke around as well, more about the SIG. But we are what we do this sort of information kind of lives at the beginning of our design decks that we usually review. But that can be a bit inaccessible for people to there are a number of different resources here. Dedicated getter space is just our channel and it's just pointing people in that direction essentially. But the real meat and potatoes here is the UI design guidelines where I've created these pages. It kind of gave an overview of the idea of these guidelines and created these pages of pages of Jenkins design principles, the typography and fonts the color palettes. And one of these color palettes and methodology. These are all the things basically that we've looked at in this group, but they have not been easily made available to everyone. So the idea here is bring it all together. You kind of get the idea. This is just a resource consolidation, but actually I should point out one additional item here is that each of these pages would have at the bottom. It's a simple type form where people can go and submit feedback and the idea being that the the SIG group can ideally grow a little bit and also benefit from more asynchronous feedback and communication this way. Perhaps I can gear this up so that when someone submits it, it gets posted to get her channel or something like that shouldn't be too hard. And kind of get your first impressions. What does everyone think of this as a resource where this lives? Is this feel appropriate? Anyone have any feedback? My first thinking is that it should land in, especially as we are mostly debredating the Wiki, the Wiki on Jenkins IO, you know, pre-lending and under the Jenkins IO SIG UX website. As I posted the link off in the chat, probably would make sense. Yeah, I don't think I'm not sure what the others SIG do in general, you know, with where to how to put their resources. I mean, it would probably make sense to, you know, as you've done here, I think actually we'll eat already of our laps with some of the things because I'm pretty sure we already have the meeting calendar, some of the link to various main lists. So yeah, we would probably just add, you know, the design check archive and, you know, basically the things that we've not put there yet. Sorry, I'm fighting with my baby. No worries. Yeah, that does make sense. Felix, I think you had expressed the same sentiment earlier. I did. Yeah. No, I think the same. I think Jenkins IO is seeing so repository of knowledge about Jenkins and its documentation and this belongs there. This should belong there. In my opinion, of course. Yeah. That makes sense. There's a bit of a barrier to entry for me. I'm not actually even sure where to start contributing to the site I can find out. I don't know if all of you to to get started on that, but if we can get a realistic timeline. It's actually it's quite easy to conclude because it's actually backed by it's a static only generally website. I think it's all struck. I'm not sure it's rich to its using but basically, I've just posted the link of it's backed by and you can submit a PR. If you you're not comfortable with that, but then the rest is mostly, you know, potentially reworking things in ASCII docs, but I don't think it would be a problem for you. And, you know, basically posting links and whatever I just saw a few seconds ago. And there's obviously by definition a lot of examples in that thing and you can run it locally for your filing your PR. So yeah, I think it should be easy or at least doable for a lot of contributors out there. So yeah, maybe you can open the links for that I posted in the chat, especially for people who may be watching the recording afterwards and may not have access to the comments so that, you know, it's helping for potential contributors. Sure. Yeah, this is where somebody could so someone could file a PR and once the SPR it just merged it immediately going to be published what immediately after a few seconds or minutes after it's basically rebuilt but pushed against the public facing Jenkins.io website. Yeah, the majority of my time spent on this certainly was about making the content here and less about putting it on this structure so yeah if we can. It sounds like we can get it over there on to Jenkins.io in a way that's useful and super visible in the current destination totally fine with that. So Baptiste, I'll follow up with you about where to get started with that. Sure. Okay. So then yeah in coming weeks, I can't promise a specific time but in coming weeks we'll we'll have to consolidate all of this stuff and have it a little bit neater and have these resources a lot more visible hopefully. All right. That's the only item on our list for today. Anyone want to talk about it further or anything else short week small week or small meeting. Yeah, I'm literally ecstatic about what Cliff and Felix and and many others could be delivering together because I think what Cliff you were saying something if I'm wrong but and I think Felix did it. He gave it a try quick quick try is to, you know, find some way to extract basically the kind of pipeline pipeline rendering capability of blue ocean inside so called classic UI. That would be no some freaking thing because that's basically what people are missing and that's where basically the classic UI is crop. Anything any pipeline using any parallel step is just exponentially crappier than one that one portion can offer so yeah. Yeah, I did try to just taking blue ocean code and putting into creating a plugin or just, you know, creating a react up embedded into the classic UI and using blue ocean code and thing is the blue ocean UI code. It's really tightly coupled to the JavaScript code to the business logic with just type the couple to some rest API and the authentication is weird I couldn't I wasn't able to get anything to work. So I sort of gave up on that one. So my suggestion would be to, if anyone wants to work on this to just use the blue ocean API, and maybe build the whole thing from the, from the ground, because understanding the way blue ocean works, they have the API, the stream model and everything. It's a challenge. I would just go with the API and start building something. I really just know that's something Cliff can talk to talk about but yeah I'm like, it looks to me as a newbie, you know, outsider that you know the rendering of pipelines is not. He's more than just API code it's a lot of work so if you're saying we rewrite everything about that I'm like, pretty going to take a lot of work and a lot of rework and basically rewriting from scratch so maybe I'm missing something or. You can sort of with with with some especially react knowledge, you can sort of copy and paste you can just go into this component boom copy and paste the sbg code, which is basically what you're referring to the sbg code. You can just copy and paste that one and migrate it into any other JavaScript framework. Because that's the basic is the difficult part is the other one, basically, and it's the one that's really difficult to extract from blue ocean. Even though there are many javascript packages days have blue ocean cord jas blue ocean web dashboard. There are many things that I couldn't I wasn't able to make anything to work to get anything to work. Yeah, I'll kind of reintroduce myself a little bit in a little bit more detail so I'm actually a former be myself. I worked for cloud bees. Kind of during like 2016 2017 timeframe. I guess you could say I was maybe one of the principal contributors to the blue ocean UI. I did a little bit on the back end with building out like some of the GitHub integration. There's a lot of rest API is over there. So, although it's been, you know, it's been a few years since I really thought about, you know, doing Jenkins development. I think I can probably find my way back through the JavaScript code, at least pretty easily. And it's fair to say that it is. I mean, what we're trying to do is ambitious and probably too ambitious and that's probably where the project is kind of landed in the in the state there where it is now unfortunately is being kind of not having great community adoption but yeah Felix to your point I think we should be able to scrape essentially the react based code or at least the SVG based code. I probably start just with scraping the react code trying to get react bundled into the thing. And what I probably do is just like go to a Jenkins instance that I have somewhere and grab essentially just the rest API response payload that I know is responsible for kind of rendering that graph and just start there and just see if I can slam literally like some some object literal JSON into the react component and just get it get it to render. And then at least we kind of got to that point we know okay well like the UI piece at least is kind of works and is solved and then it's more about kind of like how do we rip out what we potentially need from the blue ocean rest API and then and then maybe that whole thing is packaged as a as a single plugin that exposes the API endpoint that the graph needs to consume is that would that be kind of in line with your thinking of how to approach it. Yeah, definitely. The actual UI part is spread across several packages. I think it's spread across the, well, you'll see. Yeah, I remember. You need to do some comprehensive it have search. But yeah, I think that sort of approach I took as well. So yeah, definitely. Initially have was authentication with the blue ocean API, but I mean if you weren't that you probably know. I came in with knowing nothing. So, yeah, I know that at one point there was some work that the fact that he was doing with like a JWT implementation and I can't fill life for me recall if we ever shipped that and finish that and actually integrated that on the UI side if that was something that was that was in progress it's kind of like I think the JSON structure, I believe they call them. Well I know they're called, you know, pipeline graph nodes, kind of within Jenkins. But I know there was like, there's that piece of the rest API in the object model. And I think what will be interesting is, you know, it's like when we try to grab that piece and pull it out. How many other pieces want to come along for the ride. Because obviously there's like a ton of as to your point like, they did a ton of work, building like, essentially a whole new rest API framework almost from from the ground up so it may may have a lot of dependencies that we need to kind of untangle as as we get to that part so. Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds like you know way more than I do a lot of things so great. Yeah, I mean it's, like I said, it's been been about three years since I thought about it but yeah actually work over at Capital one now, and do a lot of work, kind of over in the, well I do kind of a little bit of everything, mostly UI architecture and a lot of CICD and delivery stuff and we actually have a Jenkins master that is so massive and has so many branches and pull requests because we we have like a repo we have like 300 developers contributing to on like a monthly basis. 15,000 pull requests and like the last year or something it's like super active. And we actually got to the point where we can't reliably even get the blue ocean UI to load it like basically times out after 60 seconds, because of some, you know proxy, you know firewall setup in our organization. So we've had to kind of shift all of our users back into the conventional UI and of course the pipeline graph is like the one thing that they're that they're missing so excited to do some open source contribution again definitely with us also kind of help us out big time at the day job as it were so. Awesome. Yeah, well thank you for bringing it and thank you for sharing look forward to it. Yeah. Yeah, nice to meet you all thanks. Anyone else got anything and if not, we'll, we'll call it for the day. All right. Thanks everyone. We'll talk in a couple weeks and on good. Okay. See you. Yeah, everybody.