 Welcome to the RF elements unlicensed podcast. I am Caleb now we're in this is tussles alley exu. What's going on man? Hey, what's going on Caleb? How are you doing today, man? Doing good man doing good. So we're excited for this week's podcast We have another special guest. This is Dustin stock for mimosa Network So we're gonna have a really good conversation with him looking forward to it for sure. Absolutely. I'm kind of excited I've been wanting to get Dustin on our podcast for some time So I'm glad he finally took the time out and joined us here today for sure for sure So before we get into that real quick give the good people their call to action Absolutely, don't forget to like listen or subscribe to our channel right here on YouTube or anywhere else you download your audio podcast like Google Apple or Spotify very good very good Well, let's go ahead and get started with this interview and roll with it. Absolutely. Let's bring them on Dustin what's going on man? Glad to see you here. Glad he took the time to talk to us. We're super excited to talk to you Well, I'm super excited to talk to you guys again, too It's always great to hang out with the great toss us and Caleb the meat smokers Wouldn't oversell it too much at this point. We'll see how things go But a real quick for those of you who in the listening that don't know who you are Dustin if you could give just kind of quick introduction talk a little bit about your role at mimosa What do you do there and kind of how you ended up here? You know, you've been in the industry a long time as we all have so just let the let the good people know where you are Where you're coming from and we'll roll from there. Sure. So I'm coming up on my five-year anniversary mimosa coming up January 1st of this coming year, which is hooray five years You know, lots of people don't stick around more than a few years at a job, but here I am. Yeah, that's a good landmark You've made it Well, I guess I better find a new job then guys But hi, I said is that the aluminum anniversary? I believe so copper copper. Okay. Well copper is worth a lot right now. So true Anyway, you know, I started here five years ago as the build operations manager basically Was managing the the alpha network we had which we deployed all of our products out in a real-world environment Or we could actually test our firmware and our hardware before we even went to beta So we had about 45 to 50 customers on that that got free internet service for At least five years. They were having it, you know a couple of years before I came here Unfortunately, we don't have the alpha network anymore During COVID times, you know with the equipment shorter bit the equipment shortages, which I'm sure you guys are both well aware You know, we went ahead and close that down, which was very sad for for me and for our customers Other than the alpha network, I have been in charge of mimosa support for several years now I handed that over to my colleague Jeff Jones, which if you've seen any of my podcasts He's been on there several times and I'm now quote-unquote a mimosa product specialist So I take care of all of the the high Level customers all the the big big guys that have any kind of a most of problems or questions. I handle all that here Including but not limited to rise brought in I'm sure you guys are familiar with those guys Yep, being one of the biggest wisdom in the US and maybe even the world along with other large customers that you know, we have across the world so How I got some a mosa we were actually beta testing B5 C's at my last company, which I spent six years at Aristotle, which was my first professional job I graduated college with an associates and networking and only barely used it You know, lots of people who graduate school barely ever end up using their degrees. Anyway, it's yeah Just a piece of paper to the show you are willing to do work. I guess Really expensive piece of paper. Yeah, yeah Yeah but because I had a prior experience with Construction type work. I got here hired at Aristotle as an installer and quickly moved up the ranks there to head of wireless department after a few years I learned a ton of stuff just in the first month of working there about wireless that I'd never even would have imagined before and So I ended up managing the whole network bringing in a bunch of new towns who converted all from You know, really terrible century link or you know Windstream services over to wireless services just because it was cheaper and Way more reliable than the the dial-up speeds they were getting like century link was charging people 50 bucks a month for like a half a mega service, which you know out in the middle of nowhere I guess you can get away with it. You really can't get away with that kind of stuff anymore Well, you sort you sort of can I out at my ranch I I had a like three meg connection for like $90 a month or something like that So I mean mark the market bearers. I guess the price, right? I suppose But you know, there's more and more people becoming whisks every day. So definitely. Thank God There's more options, you know Starting to show up for for those rural people who don't really have anything else besides the really terrible wire line service Yep, but anyway, you know too many tangents but we were beta testing b5c and the the head of the support team Chris trout back in the day came out and He came out several times because we were having issues with mimosa b5c is which funny story ended up being my fault But we won't go into that But he came out he watched me climb towers and work on the equipment He's like, you know, we could use somebody like you to come out and manage our alpha network And I'm like Well, you know, this is the huge opportunity But it's also kind of scary to move all the way across the US from from Arkansas to California Which is as I'm sure you're aware of a way different environment than the Little bit But it's it's way different over here and it's really really expensive, you know Yeah apartment. I have one bed in a two bedroom apartment 900 square feet is $2,600 a month Rewind let's let's play that one again. What I think we missed that say it again. How much only only $2,600 a month for a 900 square foot apartment. Wow, that's fair before I moved here I had a three bedroom house, you know, 13 4200 square feet for $110,000 total. Yeah. Yeah I'm on the opposite. I'm on the opposite spectrum. I moved from New Jersey to like Rio Rancho, New Mexico So I had the opposite culture shock Yeah, you know, I might make more money here, but it certainly doesn't feel like it, right? But unfortunately, you know, our office is here. I can't really move anywhere where it's cheaper But as soon as I get the opportunity, I'll be you know moving somewhere where I can actually afford to own a home again But he brought me out here And the rest of the story, you know, you know, I've just started at the you know Managing the alpha network and I've moved up from there. So now here we are today five years later So Dustin, you know, a lot of people out there listening are very familiar with the mimosa networks, obviously primarily from the whiffs side of things But you guys serve a lot of different international markets and you serve a lot of markets that aren't necessarily whiffs, you know The electric co-ops and stuff like that So kind of give us a another view or some different types of networks and stuff that you guys are seeing I think folks would find interesting to talk about so before airspan came in and bought us out Which happened back in October November of 2018. So it's been in several years now. We were breaking into Larger rural telcos market and we were breaking into the Electric co-op markets. So with the rural telcos, you know, they don't have a lot of customers out there and it's very quiet spectrum So, you know putting up mimosa equipment shooting 10 miles The customer side, you know, they have two-foot dishes and they're getting 300 meg 200 meg down So they were really blown away by that and they're all real tight-knit groups So, you know, when we successfully deployed the first one all the others heard about it And so they started bringing us in and a guy that just left here. His name is Vardham Mary and myself we would actually go out on trials and You know, deploy the product for them like I'd actually climb towers and help them deploy the stuff And we configure it and set it up and show them that it worked good And so they've been continuously buying stuff ever since As for electric co-ops a lot of the times they're going pull-to-pull So they don't need five gigs. So we've been using our b24 product for that because they're short hops You know, the b24 is is good up to around two miles depending on what your rain faded zone is Here in california, you could do two miles or in arizona. You could do two miles You know in texas or you know, north carolina You know, you can't really go more than Three quarters a mile to a mile depending on how much rain you get which you guys get a lot more than us Especially now, you know, we're in a huge crowd here. So You know, I haven't seen really any rain since I moved here. You know, we brought tons of rain To you know, california when I moved from arkansas I haven't really kind of rained since but it rained its ass off that year It was they they were like, wow, we haven't seen this much raining forever But I haven't seen that much rain since then so And then it goes five years without raining again. So uh, so it goes. Yeah, so Um, yeah, so they deploy the b24s. There there's no real interference in 24 gig The beam the beam width is so narrow that you really can't pick up a lot of any other 24 gig in the area because it's all pencil beam focused down to the other end um, you know co-locating with air fiber 24s has been kind of a pain because they Kind of step on our spectrum and they're they're higher power because they have the larger dish on the bottom but Other than that, it's been pretty successful and you know, people have been buying them up especially In other countries and that's where the airspan part comes in You know, they've really helped us get into markets. They were already in like in Asia and Africa and india Our c5x product, which is really cheap but also delivers, you know, quite a bit of throughput has been instrumental for several lte companies to You know backhaul their eno bees and their their small cells And it's really taking off over in the asian and african and indian markets Where they're buying just thousands and thousands of radios as backhalls for for their small cells That's cool. Yeah, that's one of the things I was going to ask about was the airspan acquisition You're a couple years deep into this now I wanted to ask a little bit about, you know, what does it mean for you and where is it helped? I mean, obviously getting into these new international markets Those are those are tough nuts to crack and we're familiar with that for sure So, you know, I'm sure them them already having a foot in the door really could help Get that portfolio boasted up over there and we see a lot of we see a lot of mimosa stuff And a lot of different regions where we're working as well Yeah, we've got mimosa products in over 150 countries around the world And that was before the airspan acquisition, but you know, it wasn't big markets You know that people would buy them here and there, you know, try them out or you know, deploy small networks With airspan, they've been around for over 20 years now and you know, they've been a big name They're not as big as you know, say ericson or nokia But there's still a lot of people out there who know who airspan is and You know that it helped bring us in because you know, we were trying to get some of these these customers in But they only knew us as mimosa and mimosa hadn't been around, you know, very long We've only been around since like 2012 2013 Right, but because airspan was already in the door there It was just an easy way to just bring on in Basically another set of their products because now they own us But you asked what airspan has really changed for us at mimosa Um, mimosa is still mimosa, you know airspan kind of stays out of of what we do We do our own thing But you know, sometimes they push us for for features that they need for their customers Which has really made us, you know and our products better But you know, they they let us do our own thing. They don't really get involved too much So we're we're basically separate companies just under the same name Okay Well, it's cool. It definitely helps that, you know, they they're there to be helpful and not necessarily poking their fingers And everything which is you know, there's always the fear and especially in our industry when you see these mergers and stuff like that You never really know how it's going to go, but seems like it's working out really well for you Yeah, it was definitely one of my question marks too, you know When when that merger happened it's like, well, what's going to happen to mimosa? And how is this all going to play out in the market? So it's good to know that you guys still have kind of free reign to To develop and do whatever it is you guys want to do for the most part Maybe with more resources now too, which that's kind of cool. I guess Right. Yeah, we were we were all thinking the same thing. What's going to happen to us? And you know, this being my first corporate merger. I'm like, oh, what the heck's going to happen to us? You know, and we we all found out at Wisp of Palooza 2018. So we're there in Wisp of in Vegas going What the hell's going on? You know, our customers know what's going on before we do. We're like, holy crap. Yeah Yeah, I talked to you I remember talking to you like right after the announcement like, hey, man, that's exciting, right? And you're like, I don't know Well, you know, you've heard horror stories of where, you know, somebody comes in Acquires you and then fires everyone and then bring your own people. So we had no idea what to expect. So yeah, you You and I had the same conversation too As he was dropping business cards everywhere, but Just in case just in case just in case No, but no, that's awesome that has worked out and you've been able to do what you've been doing there, which is great. So right So for more of a not generic perspective, but more of a sort of open-ended perspective, you know Even in the industry a long time, you've seen a lot You get a Different view than a lot of people do working as a manufacturer and seen a lot of different networks and a lot of different aspects of the industry So I thought what we could do is talk a little bit about, you know, what will you see the state of the industry? You know, how things have progressed or you're like covid for instance, you know From what's your perspective of that? What are some of the cool stuff that's coming out across the industry where things are going and stuff like that? So I thought we just have a little chat about that, you know, as we we talked to various guests So I guess the first thing would be, you know, how did How did mimosa get through the the covid part not only from an internal Perspective, you know and working and operating and stuff But then the the massive boom that happened from an equipment perspective Well, the good thing is is our ops team, uh, you know Prepare for the worst. So we had a huge backlog of products that were built already And for the first half of covid we were good, you know, our sales skyrocketed, you know, we were selling products products were moving Just moving out the door like crazy Um, you know now that we're through that backlog we're kind of caught up with everyone else where we're We're kind of, you know, been hamstrung by the shortages, which I'm sure that you guys have had issues with that too I've seen on facebook where people are like when can I get my Rocket dish, I mean not my rocket dish. We're not ubiquity here When can I get my twist port dish and when can I get my horn? But you know, we're we're kind of the same, you know, we're we have equipment. It's coming. It's just slow going and covid's really Hamstrung the the ax development because of the chip shortages around the world and you know, we're not a ge or Any of the big car dealers or anything like that? You know, they get first dibs on chips because they've got huge volume We don't have nearly the volume like that. So exactly. It's really slowed us down. We were really planning on getting the ax out the door, you know Right after covid hit, you know, that was our initial plan and you can see it's You know just now coming to real fruition. So it's really really killed us on on the development front. So Luckily for us, you know, we were kind of prepared with Current equipment and it had stock of it. But for development wise, it's really kind of, you know Beat the hell out of us. Yeah, and I don't I don't think, you know, a lot of people actually Realize the scale. Like you said, you know, you're not a gm or whatever and these bigger companies And and typically when they, you know, when in the wisp market, they look at manufacturers like yourself or let's say rf elements or whatever you know They they think that the big gorillas are like the cambiums and the ubiquity because they are from market cap and stuff like that But really even they are Nobody's let's say compared to the apples and you know, the amazons and the other Real big players out there who get priority for not only the you know, the the chips that they need But also the time at the contract manufacturer to run the product out, right? So there's really huge gaps between, you know Where we are where people perceive the the biggest people are and where The real monsters of the industry are In comparison to everything. So it's huge huge difference. Uh, yeah a few weeks ago My hardware guys are telling me, you know, there's a a chip that we normally get that's less than two dollars a chip You know, it's it's kind of expensive for you know, mass But these people that are wanting us that have the chip have marketed up to 200 dollars per chip Like it's crazy. You can't you can't even attempt to do that because if you you did buy something like that Your equipment cost would go through the roof people wouldn't be able wouldn't pay for it. Anyway, it's not like You know, you know, our our equipment is You know affordable equipment, you know, it's yeah more expensive than ubiquity, of course But you know, we try to deliver great performance, but if we start buying 200 dollar chips That's going to push this to cambium prices at that point. Yeah, and And and also like even for us, you know, we have our You know starter horn now our starter series of antennas Which are again a more economical, you know, high value but lower cost You know alternative for some of these, you know Price pressured markets and stuff like that and even the price of paper We actually had to start printing the instruction manual on the box itself because they wanted to charge us like $3 for a little paper pamphlet You know with the actual instruction So I mean, you know $3 doesn't seem like a lot but when you know, it's a $30 product or something like that That's 10% right is a huge increase in cost and makes it very difficult. So yeah, I can only imagine on the Component side for you know chips and stuff like that. Yeah, the prices can really go through the roof make big differences Yeah, I think I think you guys are similar to that. You know, you have affordable products You're not cheaply made or super cheap. I don't use the word cheap exactly But you're in the mid-range like we are we try to sell quality products For an affordable price not cheap but affordable because you can't afford to sell them cheaply because then you're not making any money But yeah, it's really hurt everyone like, you know, you go on facebook every day on wisp talk or any of the others You're like, I still can't get my ubiquity equipment. You know, who knows what what's up with their Their logistics, but you know, I'm sure everyone is in a similar situation where it's either stuck in la You know on a boat or it's still stuck in china Which you know lucky for us. We got our stuff out of china Right when trump was threatening tariffs. So we moved to malaysia. So we didn't have the the china problem anymore But a lot of the parts still come from china. Yeah, so, you know, everybody's still affected because Silicon is is basically in china and it's unfortunate truth of things is You know, we still rely on them heavily for any of our electronic stuff even if it says Made in taiwan or or made in, you know, malaysia or wherever made in india wherever you're getting it made A lot of the silicon is still coming from china. Absolutely Yep What about y'all's parts? Do they come from china too? Yeah, they they still do right. So we I mean, we are shifting ourselves as well. We're doing now a lot of the quality control assembly and stuff in europe So we're trying to bring it back as well to a place that's You know, we have more control over obviously As well as trying to source some of the parts right from within europe But yeah, a major majority of the stuff still comes from china. So we're still, you know hamstrung to You know the delays that we have there There are some benefits because a lot of the stuff from china actually can come by train So it doesn't necessarily have to get on a boat to get to us in europe before coming here But in the end, I mean it's it's it's such a big vacuum there with delays and sourcing and logistics that it all trickles down Right, I mean if you don't have enough containers in china And that stuff's not moving to europe then you don't have the empty containers to now reuse and ship them to the us Or wherever else you may be shipping it. So it all it all rolls downhill in the end But yeah, but we're we're definitely looking at our options and trying to you know, again pivot So that way we can avoid this in the future and I have more control over everything Not just the product, but the quality of the product and everything else as well. So So you guys asked, you know, what what cool stuff do we have coming? So You know in vegas we announced our ax product line the the a6 and the c6x And you know, we've got some a6s here in the office, you know, we're we're still working on refining the the software and everything But a lot of the a6, you know, like I mentioned had been delayed by coveted So it's you know, it's really chip shortages, but you know, we're still it looks like we're still on track to The start pushing those out the door in q2 of this year You know, the unfortunate thing for you guys, of course is that this is an integrated solution There's no connector ports. I know you're you're sad about that But I promise that I've been pushing for a connectorized version and I have been for Well quite a long time now because there are tons and tons of people out there Who are going to want to continue to use? You know your horn products or you know other people's antennas and whatnot. So I've been told that there's a connectorized version coming cool. Very cool sometime after the summer awesome, but of course You know, we have a track record of saying something and it coming like many many months later So I would expect to see that maybe around this time next year instead of After summer, I guess that's still technically after summer anyway, but you know, they're saying q3 I'm thinking more of maybe the end of q4, but you know I'm on the same page as you as the you know, the end user because I used to be an end user I know that we want connectorized products. So it's coming and you know, I've made sure it's coming The ax has backwards compatibility with the ac product line, which is you know, the c5c c5x So you don't have to forklift forklift upgrade your network all at one time Put an ap up and then you can slowly switch out to ax clients as you Feel like you need to nice And I think the those of you know, folks are not really familiar with the ax core tech You know, what do you think is or what would you say is the most you know Biggest benefit of that, you know, would it be the scheduler or you know the timing improvements and stuff You know, everyone they're like, oh, this ax stuff's really cool. But what is it really doing for us in the end? So I think that the main couple of things we should highlight about ax at least with our product line is 160 megahertz channels, which you know, it's a huge amount of spectrum That's going to be you know, taking up a lot of space and in five gig and the two megahertz increments for noise Mitigation so our product is going to be looking at two megahertz chunks when it's transmitting Instead of 20 40 or 80 megahertz chunks when it's transmitting And this is the the real way that we're going to be able to avoid and mitigate interference out there because as you know Five gigahertz is pretty much trashed at this point and bringing in something that's using up a 160 megahertz of spectrum Is going to trash it even more But with that 160 megahertz of spectrum We also have six gig coming down the line And you know, there's already people getting experimental licenses for six gig with mimosa products now with the a5c and They're in the FCC is letting them have the whole thing. They're letting them go from five nine to six point four And I've not had a single person yet Be told you can't do this which is really weird because you know, there's licensed six gig her links out there Lots of them, you know, at least around here in california and i'm sure in any urban area There's probably a lot of six gig links, but you know, they're basically just giving them out like candy for like I think 75 bucks for for two to three years. So While they're working on their afc Coordination system and finishing up the rules. They're they're just giving these out So people who apply for it can go ahead and use six gig But you know, mostly six gig is clean pretty much everywhere At least in the rural areas and so you can light this up and go 160 megahertz and you know pump out Lots and lots of throughput and and this radio is supposed to go up to seven gig aggregate And I've seen it already with Two by mimo, you know pushing out over two gig per client, which is pretty awesome And it will have the four x mimo when it's it's done. Is that at 2096 qualm? Yeah, like I said before earlier in the show, we're we're still working on software, but with the the hardware Being, you know hamstrung by coveted, you know, it gives us plenty of time to get the software ready to roll It's not like that the software team is being You know rushed to get something out the door because We're just kind of waiting around for this looking to get here at this point but Um, so yeah Six gig is really going to be the game changer and then once the six gig rules are out Then seven gig will be available too because it's going to go up to what seven point one seven point two It's going to go up pretty high. So you're going to have lots of spectrum there. So our first radio will go to six four Our first gen and then once seven gig is situated One of the second gen radio that will go up to seven gig So you'll have a whole slew of spectrum there that you can just chew up and you know keep for yourself until other people have Radios that are capable of doing that. So, you know I can say this now, but who knows but right now we're going to be the first to market with a six gig radio because it actually exists and and operates whereas Other vendors have only got it in a power point or in their slide deck and they're just talking about it So, you know fingers crossed we get that out and people are able to start picking that up, you know before the end of the year Yeah, definitely. That's something we're waiting for as well, right for kind of that whole six gig You know spec to be ratified and know where it's going because that affects us as well, right? I mean, you know our horns it's easier to go up higher in frequency in the horn because the You know the Wavelength gets smaller so it still fits. You can't go the opposite way with a horn It's kind of a hard stop at a particular frequency But in the end in order to have a really good performing antenna The antenna has to really specifically be made for that specific range, right? And most of our antennas on the symmetrical side go up to six four already So, yeah, there's definitely going to be an alternate horn Offered for six gig after the fact, right? So we're we're we're really interested to see where it goes. So we know what to do as well So but the designs at least are done for pretty much wherever it goes. It's just a matter of what do we start manufacturing on So so we're ready for that as well You know, we're talking about your horn product and you guys are looking at six gig But what about your rest of the world markets, you know, where there aren't really any rules All right, you guys don't already have antennas that support those markets as well Or is us really your your main focus on that? Yeah, the the us is definitely the the main focus for our filaments But yeah, I mean we are looking at the rest of the world and again It really whatever happens here is probably what will will feed those those other markets So right because I know that we've get requests almost daily from from folks that You know live in what we call the wild west of spectrum, you know, they don't have any rules They can use whatever they want exactly going. Hey, we want to use your six gig spectrum already or hey Can we use your your four five spectrum on c5c already, you know that kind of stuff And you know since they don't have rules we say if you want I guess But you have to make sure you have an antenna that works in that spectrum too And it it's hard for them to find antennas that actually respect for you know, six four or four five which Like I said the c5c can do that But not many people are able to to do that because there are no antennas at that you know that lower frequency Right, right. There's not a lot of radios that do that as well too. So, you know, It's not a lot of two gig wideband radio options that are available and Then you end up with from a design perspective. It gets to be real real sketch So, you know the the six push too many skews too many things because then like Because we'd have to retune everything to go any lower than where we are now. So But um, yeah the the six gate push as long as the FCC will finally get this afc thing written off Which we've been waiting on what two years now. So soon forever Soon, right? See your sticker on your your mic there soon. Exactly. Exactly. So No, I think the the push into that and and we push people are like, look Yeah, we're gonna have a lot of spectrum available But you still have to use it because if you just trash it out like everywhere else We're going to be in the same situation where our five gig soon as well. So be good stewards If we see any six gig omnies sticking up there, we're going to start karate chopping them down Like I saw one. I saw one Oh No in your house. No, no on facebook. I saw a post and I was just like Well, that's the scary sort of thing is we're going to see a lot of these sort of uh dubious manufacturers or chinese manufacturers and stuff, you know hitting the market with a bunch of six gig omnies and six gig just sloppy sectors and stuff like that and It's not going to go well. So be good stewards You're you're giving them probably the biggest gift that the wisp industry has seen in a very long time with this Extra frequency, but you've got to be good stewards or you're going to end up just shooting yourself in the foot for sure Yep, you guys are familiar with a five, which is the omni antenna that we have the 360 Yep People are already asking for one for six gig and we're like, no Are you going to do ax omni? Yeah, we're gonna get some 4096 on a trashed out band With with an omni antenna like yeah, there's just a lot of misconceptions This is a lot of why we sort of harp on the same message a lot. Yeah You know the spec sheet looks great, but you have to design these things to sound our fundamentals You're never going to get the performance that the sheet say they're going to Exactly exactly. Yep. Well, cool. And then I guess, you know challenges and opportunities going forward You know, where do you see the biggest challenges sort of beyond kovat and the the the chipset issues and stuff? I mean, that's one of the biggest bombers about this whole chip thing was obviously the supply But the fact that it's put development on hold for so long because you can't really stabilize that design Because you don't know if a particular chip is going to be available Now or if it's going to be two or three years to wait. So there's so many Pivots in terms of designs. I've got friends in the industry that are dealing with a lot of they're like, yeah we're on iteration like 12 of this platform before we can ship it because you know Manufacturers of these random ic's are just dropping offline. So it's been it's been painful But there's a lot of opportunities as well. So between ax between the six gig stuff I mean, there's so much to look forward to coming up indeed And I think fiber is becoming a big big proponent of even the wireless industry, you know people are starting to use fiber and then Last mile they're doing, you know wireless backhaul or access point And I think that our product will will mesh very well with fiber because you know, we're we have 10 gig fiber ports on our product And we're able to push out 7 gig aggregate on the the ax Product and we'll have a backhaul that will be ax as well, you know on down the way So I think fiber is going to be everyone's best friend, you know, people are scared of fiber There's lots of folks out there who don't want to touch fiber, but ultimately that's that's where the market is heading. So um, you know a couple your network fiber plus, you know last mile Wireless and I think it'll be good to go. Yeah, we've talked about that multiple times on this podcast specifically about that hybrid model and trying to get the word out there and You know kind of demystify, you know, some of the misconceptions of fiber and how it's used and You know to look at it more as a friend than a foe, right? So, you know, we we talk about, you know, you know making lemonade out of the lemons, right? so I mean really Wisps need to start looking into this as a viable option for their for their, you know, Wisp to grow and to to utilize it because again in the end, like you said, you know, you have to deliver Uh, you know more bandwidth now with every access point Now having, you know much higher aggregate throughputs per ap when you have multiple of those ap's again You know a five or two or even 10 gig wireless backhaul is not going to be sufficient You know when you can have an aggregate throughput of your tower of 20 gig, right? What are you going to do? Right? So yeah at some point fiber is going to be a very important part of What wisps need in order to continue in this market? Like i'm not saying you have to use fiber But if you're using ethernet cable up a tower, that's going to be your bottleneck Sure You're really you're really trying to future-proof your network and and to do the fiber is really the only way you Can go about doing that at this point. Definitely for sure for sure Well dust in us all the questions I had on my list. Um Tell the good people out there if they want to talk to you. Where can they find you? How can I communicate with you? Well, um, you know, you can find me on our own The most networks youtube page where I do my own podcast Which you're more than welcome to go watch at any time customers of our filaments I think we've even mentioned our filaments several times and I've even snuck in some product placement of our filaments The two times myself Um, you can also email me at dstock at airspan.com. You know, that's my uh My email address that I use for anything business. So dsdock at airspan.com and Otherwise you can reach me on facebook where these guys talk to me all the time I've got, you know, customers who contact me on facebook all the time. It might be my Personal page, but you know, it's basically my work page as well So, you know, feel free to stop in there as well If you don't want to email and just drop a quick line But before we go I have a question for you guys. Oh, yeah, no reverse in the rolls. Oh, I wasn't expecting that Let's go already When are we going to have a podcast of you two having a food cookoff? We've been talking about that. We've been talking about that even Uh, potentially like taking the podcast on the road, right? Something like rfv and barbecue on the road or something like that. So I don't know I don't know. We've talked about it. It's it's in the works or it's in the planning I should say the planning stage. So thanks for ruining that now for all our viewers for the surprise now But you both have the most amazing looking smoked meats and other creations, you know your breads and everything else And I'm like, man, I sure wish I lived closer to one of those guys because then I would be fucking huge I would I would be really huge. You can take my weight. I'll give you some of mine. I'm sure kaleb You guys cook such delicious looking food, you know, it's not surprising that you guys are Um, healthy. Yeah So, you know, it's just it would be cool to watch you guys have some kind of cookoff against each other and have judges go This one's better We don't want that we rather just cook together Plus the elements food war The food war on facebook is just kind of fun back and forth banter, you know So we we actually work really well with each other and share recipes and techniques and stuff like that all the time behind the scenes It's it looks different on social media and it's meant to it's kind of fun, you know, but uh, yeah in the end I don't know. I don't know about a cookoff. I don't know. We'll see maybe well, kaleb I think you're perfect fit at our filaments. You and you know, you know, y'all are like brothers on month Y'all really work well to get together. You'll really fit. Yeah Your personality is on the show, you know, real mesh. So I think y'all are perfect. Thanks Thanks. Thanks for sure. So, uh, man, yeah barbecue food I haven't eaten. Yeah, I am too and I'm like hadn't eaten lunch yet. So I'm like, um Yeah, we're I was doing something this weekend. I was experimenting with something and It was late and we got done eating my wife and I are laying on the sofa just bloated and we're like, man That was amazing, but we can't keep doing this It's time to pump the brakes a little bit, but we may do some sort of dueling banjos for the thing one of these days We'll say All right, well cool. So that's it for me toss us you got anything else for Dustin No, that's it man. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate it Hopefully we'll have you back on the show sometime as well and for anybody out there who's watching Again, we'd love to see you on our show as well So feel free to drop us a line on social media or directly However, uh, you want to get in contact with us and and give us your feedback and again Like I said, maybe join us on the show. All right. Well, I appreciate you guys having me in and I hope to be back again soon All right, everybody until next time. Y'all be good. Yep. See you