 I'm Isabella, I'm 25 years old and I come from Italy. My name is Maddi, I'm 17 years old, I'm from Afghanistan, I'm a student and I look summer. Thank you for joining me here at Moudam to see the exhibition of Winnia Kendridge. And the exhibition what work did you like the most? My favorite work was drawing for waiting for the civil. It's a drawing of a tree on a collage of dictionary pages. You see, some papers are not really blue, so they look like they are flying. He painted on them with black Indian ink. I really like the technique. On every page there are other sentences. Do you think they have a special meaning? Yes, everyone else can read it differently and give different meanings to them, depending on their personal background and beliefs. For example, I also like the quote, do not complain. Everyone can reflect upon that, especially upon privilege. What about you? Do you like the work? Maybe. The tree is very nice but it's too much paper. I don't like the chaos of it and I also prefer more color. Which color would you have added? Green. Okay, what work did you like in the exhibition? I really like the video more simply, play the dance. Why? It's interesting to see all those people holding different things. What do you feel when you see the work? I feel happy at first, because there is music and dances, but afterwards I also have mixed feelings. There are also tragic things. There are people celebrating, but then there are dictators, women doing artwork, typing really fast. And you, what are your feelings about it? I like all of it. What did you think of the sick people? I don't really understand why some people dance, some are sick. Yes, I think it's difficult to understand all these differences. Maybe the artist wanted to show society the good and the bad. Look at the animation in the back also. There is a mix of different backgrounds. Do you like the drawings? Yes, I think that the artist worked really hard. Look at the details. I think so too. I personally find it very appealing, just like the music. Do you like the music in the video? Yes, it's very different from the music I normally listen to. What music are you listening to? I like American music and you? I like pop music and I also listen to Italian music a lot. And when are you listening to music? Not often actually, mostly when I need to think, when I walk alone. Thank you Mavi for the exhibition together. I think the project was very interesting and I hope to see you again soon. Thank you too. It was nice to meet you. It was a little difficult because of the language, but I like that project because we saw a nice exhibition together. Hello, my name is Katrin and I'm from Luxembourg. And I am Iman and I am from Iraq. Iman is an artist. And Katrin works in a museum. In this dialogue we want to share our thoughts on the William Kentridge exhibition and on art in general. When I start with this project, my intention was to meet people who like art as much as I do. I also wanted to feel the connection to art again like Dubai and Iraq. Seeing the exhibition, what is the first impression you have? I feel like being in a dream or a movie. I feel like walking inside the drawing. The work touched my heart. What about you? I feel like standing in William Kentridge's workshop where I can observe every stage of his work. I also wonder about the meaning and the message of his work and where he gets his inspiration from. Ah, so you speak from your mind and I speak from my heart. Maybe that's because you're an artist yourself. Did you have other thoughts on his work? The work here reminded me of the movie Mad Max. The use of design and furniture is similar to the objects William Kentridge is using for his sculptures. Yes, the artist uses materials and assembles objects we wouldn't usually think of at first sight, like a coffee pot or cutter. His studio, I feel, is like a melting pot where everything is put together and created from scratch. Yes, he takes us from our reality and sends us to another. It is free to our imagination. After reading a bit about him, I noticed that his art originated from personal, political and social events Back in Iraq, I visited an artist in his atelier. We painted for two hours, but before that we took for two hours. I was a bit annoyed in the beginning. He was talking so much about his life. Then he asked me a question about my life and I realized that I had this box in my chest which I did not want to open. When I opened it, I saw my childhood. My life was very pretty. The artist told me, what you see about your life is the life of Iraq. Write it down. So in the end, there are three dimensions for an artist's work. The history of the artist, the history of his country and the history of the world. Yes, although it feels very personal for the visitor, there are things that apply to everyone. Do you see something from your personal life when walking through the exhibition? When looking at the different landscapes, it made me think of when I was commuting a lot. When I was sitting in a train, I liked taking an hour to relax, looking outside the windows and taking a breath from busy life. What about you? When I saw more sweetly play the dance, I could really relate to some of these people's hardships. Did it remind you of your life in Iraq? Yes, in a very emotional way. You know, there was a girl there living in the street. She would ask for money or for food. I gave it to her, but I feel really bad about it now. Why didn't I take her in? Why didn't I go to her mother and say, I can't take care of your daughter? Don't worry. I was really busy with my life. I had three boys to feed and educate, but still it makes me angry. Yes, the exhibition evokes different emotions, positive and negative ones. After we saw the exhibition, I have a personal question. What kind of art do you have in your house? I recently bought a painting by a Luxembourgish artist, Christian Fais. She often paints faces that are not only faces, but it should carry an expression. Oh, I really like it. Are you interested in any art movement specifically? I really like surrealism by Renée Magritte. I think it's very clever, like the day and night painting. Everything looks correct and right, but it actually shows day and night at the same time. What does fascinate you about art? Because when you live in this life, you have a lot of work. There is your family, your job, your children. Sometimes you want to have something to take you away from it. Art makes me fly in the sky. When I make art, I forget everything around me. I just see the brush. It is the same as yoga. Art is another way of communication. You don't need words. It helps people to express themselves. This is true, not only for the artist, but also for the beholder. We can look at art and think, and engage our minds in a new, different way. That's why it's interesting to share our point of views. I like seeing the exhibition in art in general from another person's perspective. It broadens your horizon. You see William Cantridge's work from the point of view of an artist, and I from the perspective of someone who works in a museum and likes art. So it's nicely complementary. It was nice to exchange and to see art with someone from a different background. Yes, I like talking with you and people who are passionate about art. I also appreciate you and us and support to channel our thoughts and emotions about William Cantridge's art and put it together in this dialogue. I am Hasan. I am from Afghanistan. I am good to school at ECG. I am Claire. I am from Luxembourg. I work at the La Tonde. I have always been passionate about art and I thought it would be an interesting initiative to take part in as it connects people through art. The first time we saw the work of William Cantridge, I thought there was a lot of darkness and sadness in it, and I was wondering why. So that's why we decided to talk about it. Why do you think there is so much darkness in his work? I think he wants people to be intrigued to ask questions when they see so much darkness. The exhibition makes wonder about his life and the story of South Africa when you see that his work has so little color. I think you are right because I heard that Cantridge believes that you see the truth in the darkness and not by shedding light onto it. That's why I also think that he was lonely and had problems maybe with his family and that's how he goes out of his way to go see less fortunate people. Indeed, he was going out of his way to see parts of history that have been erased or hidden and that are not visible to right people. To go to places where a person of his background would not normally go. And yes, it can be because he felt lonely and felt like he didn't deserve to be better off than the people he tried to picture in his art. What do you think, Hassan? Do you think he is someone who was sad? I don't know. I think he wanted to show other people sadness and show how other people lived. Are you right? I think it's a bit of both. I think you need to be sad or maybe ashamed of the place you come from to draw something that's so dark. But for sure, he wanted to show other people's despair, especially the despair that was hidden to most of us. Why do you think he uses black color in his work? In color, psychology, black symbolizes mystery, power, elegance, and sophistication. The color can also evoke emotions such as sadness and anger. But maybe he also just used it for contrast. But here, there is so much black in his work that it gives me the impression that he is sad. Yes, true. I actually think he doesn't use black to symbolize sadness. I, for example, like to use black simply because it adds contrast and just because it's a simple color. Exactly, because it stands out on the white paper. I like simplicity and maybe he does too. Maybe he wanted people to focus on what he draws and not on the colors themselves. I also think black is more a result of the medium he uses, which is charcoal. Maybe he used black to stand out, to be special, to create something that didn't exist before in that way and get attention. Why do you think he uses so much charcoal in his work? Because it is a medium that can be easily changed. He can easily erase something and add something new. That is especially good for his animated movies because he can just draw something, take a picture and then erase part of it and add something new. I think you're right. I also think he uses it to show that there's room for the unknown. He can add things but also hide things. Also, it is a very messy medium which symbolizes maybe the messiness of the history he shares in his work. Do you like dark colors? How do they make you feel? I like them. There is a bit of black. I personally like every color. I just change the colors I use best on the occasion. Why do you use black in your own work? Do you work with colors? I use black paint and some of my line of prints but mostly I use black ink in my writings and drawings. I do these sort of mind maps with thoughts and in those I only use black pencil. I want to focus on the words and what I write about and less on the colors. In my line of prints and paintings, I actually only use blue. Why? I think it's partially because I'm afraid to use color. I have not worked much with color, partially because I think I want to focus on what I draw rather than the way it looks. Plus, one single color is a bit more impactful. Thanks for the exchange. It was very interesting to finish our discussion. What do you think of this experience? I really liked it. I think it was a great way to experience art a bit differently to think about what I thought of the exhibition rather than to think only about the intention of the artist and also think it's a great way to meet people from different cultures and to discover them while going through an exhibition. What do you think? It was my first time ever in a museum and I really like it, the experience. I like learning more about art and different cultures. I love that I got to meet new people and learn about their culture. It was also a great way for me to improve my language skills. My name is Miriam, I'm from Borosco, and I'm Italian. My name is José Luis Falomino, I'm from La Mata, I'm a Peruvian, I'm a plastic artist and musician. I arrived in Luxemburgo last October for a practice. I'm a critical student of contemporary art and I'm also a cultural anthropologist. I'm really happy to be here in El Mudam and to have the opportunity to talk to you, José Luis, about the work of William Kentridge. It was a great experience to have studied this time the work of a great South African artist, William Kentridge, and by studying his work I was able to identify his re-indicative struggle towards the native South African population with which I feel very identified. Why do you think that the cultures of William Kentridge, in particular his human figures, always have the aptitude to embark? Well, we know that William Kentridge grew up in the time of the Pargei and in fact his work deals with the struggle of the South African population before the white invasion. I recognize that in his work there is a very strong feeling towards technical issues in relation to his country and especially in the native of his homeland. I realize that he is very honest with his work and that's why William Kentridge's work is very recognized. I personally identify a process with his sculptural work. I remember a migration and I also see that his human figures have difficulty in walking and advancing. For me, the work of William Kentridge is very punctual. In any case, the particular of his work transcends and becomes universal and then compressible for the majority. I completely agree with what José Luis of the work of William Kentridge thinks. These loads are clearly metaphorical too. Why does William Kentridge generally use the black and white? Well, from what I've seen in his work that tendency comes directly from the drawings in carbon, which William Kentridge has been practicing since he was a child. There is no presence of colors because he, in his way of thinking creativity comes from the shadows and not from the light. The shadows change all the time and form their figures. In his work, the colors are not important. Well, in my work they are essential. Can you explain a little how the colors are fundamental in his artistic practice? Well, in my artistic practice I was born in Lima, in the capital and I include the colors of the Andean culture of my country brought to the city by migration to the capital. Can you identify with the work of William Kentridge? Of course, of course. In the re-indication towards the black population and I re-indicate the same cause of the fight for the afro-descendant population in my country. I have the same emotional load and I identify a lot with the diaspora of the Afro population. What is the environment of South Africa at the time of William Kentridge? He used to consult with the European History books of art. As a visual reference, the landscapes of the old continent were the landscapes of the old continent. In opposition to that, it represents the environments that denounce the human presence, in particular the exploitors. The evil and the negative effects are evident in the environment, whose natural resources and mines were exploited. What makes William Kentridge the only work? For you it is confusing, is it political? I think that his work is, of course, political. He speaks of a privileged position, by the way, but yes, it is political. He can speak freely for those who do not live below the regime and it will not be imprisoned or tortured. However, he thinks that his work is not political precisely because of the reasons above. Do you think that the work of William Kentridge is transcendent? Well, I think so because it refers to the historical or precise moment of the apartheid and the fight against the exploitors of the natural resources. For me, his work is worthy of a social fighter. It has been a pleasure to practice with you, José Luis and learn more about his artistic practice with William Kentridge. In fact, I loved to see how the two share traditions in terms of work and social tensions, too. It has been, of course, an enriching process for me, too. As a cultural anthropologist who hopes that cultural institutions will open their doors to actively involve the voices of local communities in their programs. I hope that this initiative will continue in the coming years and that it becomes more and more inclusive. That would mean everything to me. Thank you very much. It has been a pleasure for me to have participated in this experience study of the work of William Kentridge to have shared it with you, and with Loana, and also to know a little more about this wonderful museum that is the Mudan and its work in terms of the interrelation with the public and visitors.