 It is a pleasure and an honor to be here. I mean, this is a center of science education, center devoted to science education. So, first of all, I should say, I mean, after such a great talk of Palashwal, I am sort of relieved because, you know, so many of you have come and if after two talks you go back by saying, I did not get anything, that would be a very sad thing. So, at least you have got something good in the first talk. So, if you do not get anything, this thing, I am not under any pressure. So, thank you, Palashwal. So, this is, I either say, I feel humbled actually being present here in this place because this is the center for, devoted for learning science and science research. The experts here were devoted their time for learning these techniques of these devoting research to this and are very knowledgeable about this. As Rajesh said, so this is my confession, so about this. So, general structure of the talk is scattered and focused. Not because I have not tried to put efforts in here. I have put a lot of effort in. I have given this talk at a couple of places. I have put a lot of effort. The thing is that the issue is so complicated. So, I cannot present it in a very focused manner. Sometimes you will see me talking about the school students, sometimes talking to students like you, sometimes to research scholars, sometimes to scientists because the whole thing in my mind is interrelated. When I see a scientist behaving certain manner, I see what a child must have been, that person. When I see a child undergoing some education, I see what future scientist that person will turn out to be. So, whole thing is interrelated to me. So, I cannot talk about one, one, one like that. I will have to go back and forth in there. So, these are personal experiences. I will explain, I have personal experiences. Will exchange all experiences, acquire wisdom and ask an honest question. What is it all about? Learning science and doing research. What is one looking for when a career in basic research is token? And I will tell you very honestly my experiences. And I expect if you ask me something, you will be, there is no pretension of any kind from my side at least. So, this is, this is a talk is not a result of any scholarly study on educational research. I have, I am just, it is meant to be a discussion mode, sharing with you my own personal experiences, what I have learned from them. What I personally think about good learning and good research and in no way I am trying to imply these are correct way of doing things. There is no correct way of doing things. There are different ways of doing things. This is my way, this is what I find. It depends on a lot of things, it depends on your background, depends on your priorities, it depends on your values, depends on a lot of things. How you think about life? These are my views about this thing. But, and I suddenly say, many will disagree, probably most will disagree with me and just quite fine. I mean, but we all can agree and this is why the man told me this, there is no royal road to research. Ultimately, the only thing that stands by a person is his or her interest in the subject and that is the point I will focus on, interest in the subject and that is the underlying theme of the three years here. So, discussion will be general, but we will focus it around physics, that is a Fermi talk, that is my area. So, you can replace physics everywhere by the subject of your own interest. So, so why study physics? The motivation question. So, why study physics? Motivation question. So, we will discuss pains and sufferings of conflicting demands of physics education. What should be required of a genuine education leading towards physics research? We should discuss it. It's not the issue whether you can do it or not, whether it's practical in the present education system or not. We always discuss socialism. We always discuss what to aspire for. With the present system may not achieve it, that's a different issue. But we should also always think about what is the right thing, eventually we should aim for. Then eventually we'll get there. If we don't even discuss that, you will never get there. So, the most important ingredients are parts of technical training, creativity, originality and imagination. Precisely the things almost totally missing in our education at every stage. This I say very firmly, understand by that statement. We'll a little bit sprinkling here and there, which you see occasionally, you are being part of it here. So here, I start with the disclaimer. Following discussion is based on true life experiences. Any similarities with actual educational institution, educational system, teaching methods and teachers are totally intentional and real. Credit to the movie Three Idiots for bringing some of these crucial questions to forefront for everybody. Education is always new and they always discuss in education circles and it remained confined there. This Three Idiot movie brought it out and hopefully forced people to think about some of the issues. In families, in relationship, father, son, mother, son, daughters. This relationship that people in the family started, hopefully started discussing. I hope they see movie again and again. Every time it comes, I will always watch it. And this is my certification. I certify that all proposals in this talk have been tested on self and they work to this extent that I have a job that I, what I can do, where I can do what I love, that is research. If you think they will not work for you, you can exchange them for free with other more established idea, which always work and to a better extent leading to a real successful career. So when I say they always work, that's what you get. And with, for sure, I should say in any honesty, in a established sense, I will not call myself a real successful scientist. But in the same sense, with equal surety, I'm a very happy scientist. Happy, one of the happiest scientist I know. So I'm very happy with my research and I take delight in my research. I am fully content with my research. I take pleasure. So I would like to share how I have lived my life. So, so now I'll start with something very utopian, where introductory remarks I call it. It's a mere formality because you will say, oh, what nonsense you're talking about, none the less, let me say. It's a mere formality, but it's important to state the damaging mistake which I consider of present examination system on the process of learning. I personally believe examinations are killers of learning. There was professor T. Sivakram Pathy, legendary mathematician for Murisa. I came to know him in the Lava University. He was head of the department of mathematics. I was a BST student. It was a very odd friendship. The reason he liked talking to me because I was a member of a hostel called Muir Hostel in Lava, and which was called IAS factory. It used to produce, still produces a lot of IAS officers. And I was the only one who wanted to do research. In fact, my hostel mates used to call me Gadha of the hostel. Do hostel ka naam badnaam karoge, research karne jatya, no? And he was very passionate about research. We said, oh, you like doing research? Oh, we will talk about it. So his dream, he was not only a legendary mathematician, an amazing scholar. He would give lectures standing here, three hour lecture on infinite theories, and there will be pin drop silence for any audience. He was that capable person. He used to say that I'll build an institution. He passed away before he could build such an institution. I will build an institution where lectures will be held and people would attend what they want to. And at the end, if they really want, I can issue them a certificate that you attended these lectures. And that's it. It will be nothing else. That was his dream. He had promised me an advanced position in that institute. The standard question, if you do away with this, a utopian thing, I mean, what would students study? Why would students study? And how to judge them? This is all very practical question. It's a very utopian thing. I'm saying, examination system is essential to our learning. We know that thing. And I will just go, this is a topic of another discussion. I don't want to get into this. Any way, utopian question presently. The book by Robert Pirsick, The Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. This is a book on philosophy of life. It's a very beautiful book. The protagonist, in this case, with his son is traveling across the United States on motorcycle. He likes to maintain his motorbike himself. And through maintaining motorbike, he talks about philosophy of life. So amongst many things he has discussed, he has also discussed about examination system. And he precisely addresses this issue. If there was society in which there were no exams, people will be very confused how people learn, why people would learn. And he addresses it to really good detail. If you want to know it philosophically, what could be there, I would suggest you do it. So as I said, it's a utopian discussion. Discussion is meaningless in the present context. So let us discuss situation in the real world. So we come to question of motivation. So before raising issue of motivation for research students, let us start at the beginning at school. And we say a student lack motivation to learn. And we blame it on faulty education system, which is also true. However, I say the statement that a truly motivated student will always find ways to learn. So have we as teachers discussed with the student what their motivation was to begin with? When they go to college or something, or higher studies? Has anybody discussed with them? With the students. We all know this issue. We all know this issue. So why was it that a movie like three ideas were necessary to bring this question to forefront? Standard counseling is available in places like IIT and other places, education institutions. If we discuss it, how to achieve what they want, what you want to achieve. When I joined IT Kanpur as a MSc student, there was a counseling session for us, where they really want to discuss, you know, want to do this, you will go for PhD and that's what they wanted to do. Nobody ever asked me the question, why you have joined? Have you chosen correct thing? If you did what you wanted to do, nobody ever asked me this question. I'm sure nobody ever would ask you this question now, nobody would ask you question in future. So they will tell you how to get into engineering, how to get into such career, but do we ever discuss with them what, why they want, what they want? So typical reason is either high marks in the subject and we know it neither it means interest nor it means understanding. It means to some level it relates to understanding. You know, I was in B.S.C. Alhava University and the subject I hated most was statistics. I had the physics, mathematics, and statistics. I hated most statistics. So I mugged it up. So I mugged it up and I got highest marks in that. Subject I lost, I loved the most was physics and I got least marks in that. So if somebody was guiding me by my marks, the better said, well, you do statistics. So then there was an institute in Boneshwar, institute, the institute of mathematics and application. So they called me for counseling, career counseling of students. So the director got up and he introduced me and then he asked the students, so how many students want to become, who wants to become engineer, who wants to become scientist, who wants to become doctor? And so many people want to become engineer, so many scientists, so many doctors. So very happy, everybody clapped. So when I came up, I said, you know, I'm very impressed, very happy that you guys want, you know what you want to become. And I'm, and these were, say, high school intermediate students. I said, if you say you want to become a doctor, I fully understand. When I was a child, I wanted to become doctor because doctors help people. As a child, you know doctors help. Now you are saying you want to become scientist and engineer, I'm very confused. Whom have you met ever? Have you ever met a scientist or have you ever met engineer? Who motivated you? How did you think you should become scientist and engineer? Or what have you let in literature? What have you read the internet? Have you read anything which has told you you should become scientist and engineer? So why have you do want to become scientist or engineer? What is the reason? The reason is obvious. I guess you have got high marks in the subject, so teachers told you you go from there, or the parents have told you this, or some uncle auntie or Sharma ji serious case. Yeah, engineer bane ka bachcha, engineer bane ka, so Sharma ji ki vijay se the boy is trying to become engineer. So there's something somebody else is telling you and so if the motivation was some self-learning, same motivation, it was self-exploration, there's not much to talk, but it's almost never there. So if it was some self-exploration, we don't have to worry about it. We'll not have to worry about it in case somebody was self-motivated, they'll find ways to learn. If there's a no teacher here, they'll find some other, they'll be some other teacher, they'll go on internet, these days on internet, they'll find it. Now what happens is that interest is a very funny thing because you may be interested in something and it may not be consistent with your situations or the options available to you. So they're constrained, often constrained financial responsibilities, unavailability of choice options. So for them, if you want to, I myself, I come from a moderate financial background, so it just turned out that I was interested in science, which was a safe career at that time. Our son, when he was growing up, he was interested in two things, computer science and music, and he shifted to rock music. I was very passionate, he and his friends formed a band and he wanted to pursue it. He was in high school at that time, intermediate and very passionate about it. So we had a very serious discussion and me and my wife were the child and we said that, you see, it's when we were growing up and suppose we were interested in music or sports, we could not have pursued those careers because our financial background was very moderate and we had a responsibility of making ourselves independent. So it just happened that we were interested in science and it was a safe career. Music and sports would be dangerous career. In India, they are definitely dangerous. In India, as much as I love India, I think Chetan Baladar said that India is not land for people with dreams. It's not a criticism of India. It is a realization of harsh reality that if you do not make a career which is safe for you, it can be dangerous. You will not be able to live by it. You see, if you are in US and you do whatever you want, if nothing, you can go and work in Burger King and you still have a decent life. You'll have a car, you'll have a house, you'll have everything, not here. You have to have a safe career. So you have to be careful about this thing. So that's what we told our son that you have to be careful. Now, we didn't have option of pursuing sports or music, but you are in different situation. Me and my wife are both government servants. So we are both faculty members and we have a moderate earning, reasonably good earning with the sex pay commission and the labor commission. We have good earning and we'll leave enough money for you. So we'll have a house also. We'll have leave enough money for you. So you will not have problem of food. You will even have a tiny little car. So you can explore. So you can explore what you want to do in life, not a problem. Of course, he chose to explore computer science along with the, that's his primary thing. That's a different issue. Important thing is, constraints are very important, but with those constraints, there's always options and people come with more different backgrounds and I have seen people, in fact, my son's friends, who came from much richer background than us and their parents being much more tense than us to what will happen to their son. Then I was telling them, what's your problem? You have so much money in your house. If you don't do anything, it won't be a problem. You won't do anything. If you want to go for music, what's the problem in this thing? But no, he must become ingenious. So the guy went to quota, joined JEE coaching and left after one year, he couldn't cope up with the pressure of that. So anyway, so issue with this, that boy wanted to do music first twice and second choice was physics research. But he joined, he was getting trained in JEE coaching. That's the thing. So that's the reality. So important thing is with whatever constraints person has in life with some family and open and free discussion with students needed exploring different possibilities for which students may feel some passion. And why is it important to have work on something which you have interest with? It's obvious, but let me tell it more and more because that is the thing which because of which I am standing and confidently saying I am one of the happiest scientists because with passion all the work become pleasure. Who knows it better than practicing scientists at least most of them, I hope. I said some of them, sorry, I'm working with different things. This is the lesson of, when I say three years, if Amer Khan is not my main person, Amer Khan was a hero in the movie. Such kind of people are few. If the Farhan, if the other two guys, when you said two, those are the two guys for me. They are the thing, they are the people. They were not very, very brilliant like the main hero of the movie. So Farhan tells me, father, so what if I earn less money above? I'll be really happy. And this sentence I think incredibly profound, and needs to be spoken in family. So if you love something, you'll pay for doing it. Even if you choose something, like, I mean, so I miss my chance of learning same music and I learn music now and I pay for it. When I like something, I pay for it. When you like something, you'll pay for it. And if you like something and you get paid for that, what can be better than that? In society, not everybody gets that privileged situation that you get paid for doing what you like. So if you, from high school onwards, constant discussions with students are needed, of course, exploring their passions, interest constraints, and guiding them to make responsible choices with full awareness. Most parents do not do it. It's a very complex thing. Parents don't do it. The parents care, obviously they care most about the children. Who cares more than the parents for the children? I'm not undermining their motivation or anything. Something has gone wrong in the way of thinking. So they think this is the way the child will be happy. If I make the career of the child, it's not been safe, I mean, it's really a certain way of thinking they have got. In fact, I remember talking to the principal of my son's school and telling him that you should, you do invite these educationists and all that for lectures for your teachers. You need to invite the educationists for the parents of students. Arrange counseling sessions for the parents. Tell the parents that what they are doing is they're burning out their children. They think they're helping them, they're not helping them. They're hurting them. By 12th class, children don't want to have anything to do with the studies. They are burnt out completely. You have killed their chance of remaining in an academy completely. So this has to be, teachers have to do it, and in fact, not every teacher also can do it as everybody knows. Only few teachers can, only few people can do it. In the wrong hand, it can hurt. Counseling sessions have to be there in every school. Counselors have to be there, and they should discuss. This issue has to be discussed with, with effectively and with sensitivity. This issue has to be discussed with sensitivity. So I continue with motivation question. So if one comes to physics by force, there's not much to talk. And it's time to rethink. You work for whole life in something someone else chose for you. And that too, almost certainly for wrong reasons. So physics means anything, engineering or anything, you come for that. Express disagreement in the family. And it does not mean disrespect. We are part of Indian culture. I, as much as I don't like most aspects of Indian culture, they are seemingly feudal and reactionary in my opinion. Nandil is respected, I have no problem. So be very respectful to your parents and respectfully disagree. This is not disrespecting them, respectfully disagree. Respected father, respected mother, I do not agree with you. You know how Farhan pleaded with his father. Nobody can disagree. I love that still. I mean the way Farhan pleaded with his father, which father will not agree, tell me. But important thing is, if you want to convince your father or mother that I don't want to do what you are telling me, I want to do something different, do you know what you want to do? Are you clear about it? Farhan was very clear. Farhan was very clear what you wanted to do. So unless you are yourself very clear why you want to do what you want to do, you don't have no argument. Your parents will not listen to you, they should not listen to you, I agree. You first find out what you want to do yourself and then you convince your parents and just follow movie theories and your parents will listen, I can assure you. Plead with them, because they ultimately love you. What parents is nothing more important than their children. I can assure you. I am a parent, so I know that. So I asked a school student who wanted to become an electronics engineer. When you think about your electronics engineering, do you think about IBM or do you think about a circuit? So if you think about IBM, there is nothing for me to talk. And if you think about a circuit, there is no need to talk. So this is a little bit provocative talk, so don't, I hope you take it in right spirit. If a physics research, if a career in physics research is chosen with primary motivation of a good and secure salary, fame, foreign jobs, awards, then you do the following thing. Work extremely hard, submit absolutely all the assignment, don't waste any time and remain focused and get perfect grades, okay? Which will guarantee good recommendations among, you get good grades, they guarantee good recommendations also. And you know how it works. Right from the school, you are introduced to your family friend by your mark. Oh, it's got 96% IR, or your marks are not discussed at all, because 93% have been done, which is why 94% have been done. 1% have been done, how will they introduce you to their family friends? They will not. 1% have been done. In cases like IITs, I was in IITs, I tell you, when we had a hat with gates marked on it, I really love this book. 5 Point Someone by Chetan Bhagat. I'm not advertising Chetan Bhagat, I like his some of the book term. And this was the first movie struck me literally because 5 Point Someone, the someone is very important part here. It's not 5 Point Something, 5 Point Someone. The gates are marked in, okay, I mean, you may find a little exaggeration and capturing their spirit here. I'm not describing all students, IIT students, I'm capturing their spirit here. That most said is such. They're 5 pointer, 6 pointer, 7 pointer, 8 pointer, 9 pointer, generally, 8 points and below from one category, they'll mix with each other. 9 pointers have marginal relationship with 8 pointer, 10 pointers don't talk to anybody. And you don't need to their names. Name ke jargat nahi hai. Grade is enough. That's a category. So, if you have your own ideas for a project, and it undoubtedly will be a very simple one. Because when you have done 12th class for BSc level, what do you know? You know some optics, Newton's laws, mechanics and things like that. And you better ignore those, okay? Because they are two figures. If you work on those projects, you can't publish any paper first of all, okay? So just ignore it. Why waste time on that? So try to find an advanced research-like project of some senior scientist, and you have a good chance of getting it published. Now, this is, because the reason I say provocative, these projects are very important for student learning. I am not undermining them at all. In fact, they are very good projects. What they do is, that they expose their students to an advanced research topic, and you learn new things, and you be creative in that. And there's nothing wrong in publishing paper. That's not I'm undermining. What I'm saying is the basic motivation is what? If your motivation actually is the joining project that, oh, actually I would like to learn an advanced topic. And if I work on that, I want to create something nice which might be publishable. I have absolutely no objection. But if that is the motivation that I want to work on this project so that I can publish a paper, there is something wrong here. If that is the main motivation, then something is wrong. That's what I'm saying. So, I mean, I have seen this. I feel so sad. I mean, when students, they will contact for a project and the first thing they will ask is, will there be paper in this? And I mean, some of you have presented in a morning lecture where I said they will not give me paper. It's in reaction to those things. That there's going to be, is there a paper because is there a paper and primary motivation is there a paper or will there be, in fact, it has become, now projects have become, projects were supposed to, but it started with the, in fact, I'm very happy to see the way project is conducted here. It's very beautiful. It really caters to the original spirit of project. The idea was to cultivate the innovativity or originality and creativity of those students and they do it very well here. But it is spread all across India. The projects are being done on every college, every engineering, every place that projects are being done. And the students are coming in bulk for the project. What they want is, they want a publication and they want a recommendation letter. And this, to me, this is a problem. This is taking the spirit out of this whole project which was supposed to cultivate originality and creativity of the students. So, of course, I mean, if one wants to do all these things and you also manage good grade, so congratulations for successful career. So, this is a little provocative thing but I'm just trying to separate out two different ways of doing things. Here, you are trying to, here, not you, I mean, somebody is trying to be successful in the sense of project and all those things because the aim is a successful career. Aim is something successful. Whereas, if the main interest is physics, you have to do all those things anyway. How would you do that thing? If you love physics and that's the primary motivation. Because there's nothing wrong with good jobs and nothing wrong with awards, fame and all those things. You should get them if you can. You should get them if they can. If that's the primary motivation, then I have problem. If they come later after your main interest is physics research, these things can follow up, it's great. But if that's the main motivation, I cannot identify with that kind of approach. That's all I'm saying. So, I'll go through the list again carefully with the attitude of a person whose primary motivation is physics research. So, try to work very hard, submit all assignment, get excellent grades, again something. Unfortunately, you will find it difficult. Quite often, you may find it difficult. Some people with genuine passion and interest can do it because they're very smart. They are some people who are incredibly smart and they are very passionate and honestly, they are interested in this thing and they can do all these things. But many cannot and it's okay. And it's okay. Science research is not a property of super smart people. Everyone with the love of science and some basic abilities has right to do it, can do it. With that, I again will say that super smart in terms of grades does not at all mean original creative or independent. We evaluate entirely, almost entirely, the capability of a student in some technical training. That is what we evaluate. You don't do well in that, the label is put on your head that you are not good for research. This is not fair. A scientist has to be technically trained first, no question about that, but has to be original creative or independent. These, there are a lot of qualities a scientist requires. Einstein made the statement, imagination is more important than knowledge. This statement you must have heard because a lot of time statement would have been thrown at you. Who cares about the statement? Imagination is more care. Imagination is rarely tested in examination. Very rarely and none of these things are tested ever. You know, I attended a seminar in BRC, long time ago, what is it called? And this was about a scientific research in the country. And there was a talk by Professor Rohini Godbully on the status of women in scientific research. And one person audience got up at the end of the talk and asked this question that, I have read a scientific report that women are not as good in mathematical abilities as men are. And Rohini responded very correctly to show that the social biases of such reports and how inaccurate this kind of science is where such reports are tested. I may recommend, I stood up and I may recommend fully agreeing with Rohini Godbully what answer she answered. But I also would like to add something. I have also that report which you are, read that report which you are quoting. That report had two parts, you only mentioned one part. The second part of the report says that women are found to be much better in using two halves of the brain which accounts for intuitive thinking. Women are found to be much better at intuition than men. Scientific research requires technical abilities and intuition, both, in fact, amongst other things. Now, where have you put this restriction? This, you are good in one quality and not in another quality. In fact, what we know precisely that's the problem of great research. Great research, technical ability is one thing. What you require is originality, creativity, intuition, a lot of those things. So this label which is put by one dimensional evaluation of the person. You are technical great, you are not good. You are labeled like you can't do anything. In fact, it's sort of, we are just talking about scientific research, but this is harder than that. In places which are these advanced institutions like IITs and places like that, our system puts a label on the person overall. It's not just the label is put that you're not good for engineering or science. The students, it's not active, it just happens with the atmosphere. The students feel that they are good for nothing. That is such a ridiculous thing, right? I mean, if you are not good, first of all, as I'm saying, it's not even tested that you are not good for that subject. It's not properly tested. Even if it is so, there are a thousand other things. Why students is made to feel if they're not good in that thing, they're not good for anything. There's something deeply wrong about that. So, with that, so if your thoughts wander in physics about crazy ideas, what about other things happening around you? You can't close yourself to this. I remember in IIT Kanpur, we were students and there was a National Security Act was declared. And we were all very disturbed and we wanted to back out. So we went to students, to student by student, you know, NSA, and what a problem that we should really back out the club. Most of the students told us, what nonsense? I'm going to finish my MSc, I'm going to go abroad. Why are you bothering me? I'm telling you, this, I really got this one. This, I'm not concerned, this is nothing. So if you are connected to your surroundings, you cannot remain isolated. It's difficult to remain isolated. And I don't mind. I don't think it's a problem. I don't think it's a problem. Of course, what happens is your grades will suffer, don't. When I say no problem, I must warn you. You do any of those things, your grades will suffer and your future will suffer. You pay the cost. You pay the cost, but that you decide whether you want to pay that cost or not. So let them. So if a class is very boring or, OK, this is with the humble things with teachers, don't take it very in a bad way. This is in a light sense. If a class is very boring or for later either too early in the morning, bunk it. Sometimes at least. But remember, you only attend or not. But this is the warning. I mean, you attend or not attend the class for which a teacher has worked very hard to prepare and that too for you. So how would you feel if people don't turn up for a presentation which you have worked very hard to prepare? So be sincere about assignments and attending classes. But a regimental discipline is not necessary. I do not believe in regimental discipline about attending. Now I have heard that IITs have made 90% classes mandatory. So I was teaching this class in. I got to teach some course, half of the course in IIT, Bhuvaneshwar. So I go by first electrodynamics. I was first class. I was standing there and 17 students. And in teaching, initially I turned and I saw one boy sleeping. He was literally sleeping. So I became completely quiet. I said, oh, he may be talking in the afternoon. The boy will get disturbed. But he overheard and he woke up. And he became very embarrassed. I said, no, no. It's not a matter of thinking. Go to sleep. In fact, I say, go outside and sleep. If you sleep here, you won't be able to sleep. Go outside and sleep. And in fact, if you're feeling so sleepy, don't have to come to class. Don't worry about it. There's nothing you are going to learn if you're sleepy. Doesn't make any sense. Have your proper sleep, then you come back. And I know there is a 90% constraint on your attending. We'll do something about that. Don't worry about it. So I said, I have no problem if you guys want to come to class. Don't want to come to class. Don't worry about it. And the next day I go to the class. And I was waiting. There were only four people sitting there. So I waited. I said, when will the rest of the people come? 1% of the students won't come. So I said, oh, I need to go. If you don't want to come. No problem. I taught four people that day. Next people, many more people. Next class, many more. I think they were testing me whether I really mean what I said. And I have always meant it. I mean, I do not understand the attitude of forcing people to attend the class. I mean, these are, of course, not sort of little children. I'm talking about adult students. If they don't want to attend the class, you are not going to achieve anything by forcing them to sit in the class. Assignments are absolutely essential for good learning. No question about it. However, at times you really hate working on assignment. Don't work. This is actually a story I told my son. He used to be given in Avalon Loyola School, 10th class. He would be given 40 problems in mathematics to solve every day. We would need time to play. You need to have some watch TV, computer game, and play a little. No more than two hours of homework after you come from the school. Absolutely no more than four million for you. He said, if I do this, I'll get punished. No, no. So he said, how many problems do I have? I said, whatever number of problems they gave, divide by suitable numbers so the resultant is four. You solve four problems. No more than that. He said, if you do this, I'll get punishment. What is the punishment? They sent me off to the class. So I actually asked him, I said, what is the weather outside? What is the wind? He said, isn't that much better than doing a very boring assignment? And interestingly, we had this conversation with the principal of that school. That principal was a great principal. And I told him, precisely, I told him. We were discussing about, in some different content we were discussing, so I told him. I told him, this is what I have told my son. And he was delighted. He was very happy. He said, no problem, I'll go outside. I'll go out and enjoy. That teacher didn't last day for long. But obviously, that principal. But that's all I came in. This happened. So after giving you very provocative statements, I must warn you. You cannot undermine hard work, which is needed to prepare foundation. You cannot. No activity can be fun all the time. You have to give it due share of sweat. Otherwise, you cannot do it at all. And even highly talented people achieve what they did with tremendous hard work. I've seen recently I saw this Sachin, The Billion Dreams, I've seen Dhoni, and many other such pictures. And they were talented people, but they worked incredibly hard for what they achieved. So musicians, if you say, no, I love music, and I want to do music, but subject to the topic of your interest, you will have to practice for days, hours, hours, month after month, year after year, before you yourself can start enjoying it. Otherwise, it's painful to your own ears. Your music is painful to your own ears if you don't practice. And you have to go through that before you start enjoying it. Those parts are understood. That part is understood. So next time you think the class is boring, remind yourself the class is not for entertainment. It's for learning. I tell my students always that you should not miss out things. Don't miss out seminar. Don't hear colloquium. That person is presenting something. You'll always benefit something. You'll always get something from that thing. The teacher, if the teacher is telling something, it's for that person is throwing things at you. It is for your benefit. Whatever you can absorb is good for you. What I am guarding you against is mechanical approach to learning and thinking. That's what I'm warning you. Do not learn, solve, think, choose anything. Don't do mechanical. That's what I'm most afraid about in our education system. Things have become incredibly mechanical, incredibly mechanical. The culminating in the JEE coaching center, which are the hallmarks of this machine industry. Of course, when I say mechanically, solving a large number of problems to learn a technique well is not mechanical. Because you know what you are doing. You are training yourself for preparing. That's not mechanical. It has to be understood mentally mechanical. Mentally mechanical, that's what I'm saying. So doing well in courses reflects your understanding of it. But good grades are not good enough to cost the soul of a student. There's no shame in admitting that you are human. And have weaknesses like a desire to have full sleep. Of course, living special days. Before exam or some other days. Where do 97% marks matter in the end? Where do they matter? I had the discussion with my son. So we kept counseling him constantly. I always told him, don't worry about the marks. Understand the subject. Understand the subject. Understanding what will remain with you. I told him, 96%, 97%. They don't matter in the end. Nobody cares in the end. It's just a basic percentage so that you can appear in competitive exams. Otherwise, don't worry about it. Very tense. He comes to me after some middle intense class. He says, you told me the grades don't matter. My students have told me that if I do not get above this some 94%, 95%, I won't get admission in science anywhere in both nations. That can't be true. So I found out some of the schools. It was to 94% that I didn't get admission. I said, just wait a minute. Let me find out. So I contacted my friend, the professor in Lahabad. I contacted him. I said, find out from Lahabad. Is there a decent school which can give mark in low percentage in science 16? He said, you find out 60% will happen. So I told him, I said, 60% will happen. If it doesn't happen, we'll shift to Lahabad. Don't worry about it. We'll shift to Lahabad. You'll do what you want to do, but we'll find a place. There's no difference in different schools too much, frankly speaking. In fact, some of the high-priced schools where people compete to put their children are the worst enemies of children because they are made like performers there. They are made like performers. These teachers are making the students performance and they are killing their any original instinct or anything childish inside them. What I feel most pained actually is our children are losing their childhood, which is irreparable. I can assure you of that. Because they haven't had that childhood. Now, they didn't have the water for their songs. They didn't have the water for their songs. And this is a loss which is irreparable for our society, I think. So does the life end if you do not achieve high grades? Students feel that way. In my attic, we were a batch of eight students in two year MSC. I did BST and then appeared in two year MSC there. It was not a very tough competition. It was easier than JEE. I don't think I could have made two JEE. It was too tough for me, I think. But I didn't even know at that time there was something like JEE. If I went to MSC two years, we were eight students. And we were very different from the integrated students who were JEE students. We were misfit. We were university background people. So we were very misfit. They were high profile people. But among the eight of us, we were very close ties with each other. You can meet most of my friends have remained in science and physics. And you can talk to them. And they will tell you one thing. I was not one of the high graders in my batch at all. Somebody in middle of something. I was not a very high grader in the IIT. Many of us couldn't cope up with the assignment system. But they will all tell you, I was the only one who had absolutely no tension of examination. Absolutely no tension. The people who performed much better than me had much more tension than me. People performed less than we had made. I had no tension. And they often asked me. And I told them, I tell the tricks to anybody who feels sense about examination. But it doesn't work for most of them. What can I do? What do I do? So what was my trick? My trick was simply this. Before my examination, I would sit and think, so what happens if I fail all this examination? What happens? And then I realized it's not such a terrible thing. I know life will become very hard. But I can still do things. I can open some desk drawer. I can maybe do some tuition to students or something like that. Music. Some of the things, life is not going to end. There are a lot of things I can do. This is a serious discussion, a serious discussion with yourself, an honest discussion with yourself. It's not an easy thing to say. It's not an easy thing to say. When you say, I don't have no problem becoming a cook. Do you respect a job of a cook equally as you respect a scientist? That's the issue. If you don't, then this solution will not work for you. It's not going to work for you. When we see people cooking in home, women cooking in home mostly, do we respect their activity equally as we expect their husbands who are professors or engineers? If you do not, then this is not going to work for you. If we do believe that all human activities are respectable equally, then what is to worry about? There's so many things to do in life. You try your best in one thing. It doesn't work. There are other things you have to do. So I have never been this. So don't lose perspective this much to life. That's what it is. Save your ability to think freely, joyfully, with perspective, with perspective, and with taste. And this I considered the most important part of the character of a skilled scientist. I keep putting this skill because technical ability, I should not undermine. I am not undermining technical ability. They are the most important part of the scientist. That has been in background. You are all getting trained in that. I'm very happy for this thing. Do not forget the remaining thing that's what I'm telling you. And remember, this is not a race. It is made to feel like a race. From a childhood, you are made to run. First, aana hai. Aay bhai, kyo first aana hai? The first aana hai, it's ka matlabhe ki which goes second, third, fourth aana hai, right? I just aacha numbal aana hai. I have to get the good marks. That's all. I have to learn subject-based. First aana hai ka matlab kya hota hai? Agar first nia hai to kuch problem ho jaya kya? First, not division. First position. So we are all, you know, division to thige. Division is good. I mean, but position is the problem. Top karna hai. Toppers are regarded. Second position holders are not regarded. This is the thing. You must beat others. It's not a race. I consider this the most important quotation from Albert Einstein. And I request my students to constantly work on that. It is essential that their student acquire an understanding of and a lively feeling for value. You must acquire a vivid sense of the beautiful and of the morally good. Otherwise, he, with his specialized knowledge, more closely resembles a well-trained dog than a harmoniously developed person. So let's continue. So continue. If you love physics, you are continuing with that theme. So if you have any idea for a project, which, again, undoubtedly will be a very simple one, because you have early background, work on those with high priority. But you must take advice and help of senior scientists in evaluating those projects and developing them further. Be sure that the motivation is, again, you see often, you know, motivation for a project is not to disprove Einstein. This is very tempting at a young age. I want to become the greatest scientist. Greatest scientist to disprove greatest scientists. Einstein disproves Kato Savajaya. Something is fundamentally slot there, right? I mean, if you are trying to develop an idea because you are learning a subject and the idea comes, that's idea you want to pursue. So just be careful about that. So this is my statement about working on an advanced research-like project with some senior scientists gives you a technical ability, an early exposure research topic, and some scope of creativity. All these are very positive aspects, and they are very useful from that sense. But those projects do not give outlet to your full creativity. They do not, because this is sort of the homework problem which I have been giving to you. A scientist has, this is a creative way of the scientist. Scientists who have generated this problem. The scientist is creative, he's given a problem to you. So the problem will train you, will give you early exposure of research, and will also give you outlet to your creativity, which homework problems also do. So in that sense, so you do that, those problems you also do that, but along with those, in fact, you take it this way in a constructive way, work on those problems because they are your method of learning how to generate new idea. So take help of scientist to give you projects, work on those projects, and along with that, try to develop ideas of your own. This habit of generating your ideas, it's important if you want to become a scientist. If you have not developed it earlier, and you keep waiting later, it will become difficult. And it happens. It's not switch that you'll switch on. A PhD, on, khatam ho gaya, switch on kar denge, idea aana shuro ho jayega. Yasa toh nahi hota. If you have not been thinking originally, there's a problem in that. If you have been generating your own idea, it will come much more naturally to you. So whatever will come, see the important thing is it will come with trivial problem because that's your background. But that's all right. Always the subject on which you have command, that's where you can be most creative. And that's where you start with. Then you will leap on and you'll learn more topics and you'll be creative even the new things you are learning. So do not get into the habit of looking to someone else to give you a such problem or open a direction for you. It's okay to start with like that and once in a while it's always okay because if you don't have an idea, you'd ask some scientist to give you a project. Great, absolutely no. But if this becomes a habit, this is how you always do things, there's a problem. So you do that and along with that you try to cultivate your own way of thinking in new direction. So choosing research area. So research problems. So a set priority. Job security is very important. So careful of the ski area. So this is somebody asked me, sorry. So how do you choose what problems you choose? So that's the kind of approach I'm trying to address here. So look inside you for the selection. What excites you? What appears interesting and important? What appears interesting and important? Be aware of the other work. You cannot, don't come up with, I think something and ignore it. Nowadays the internet's very easy. Be aware of the work. But do not start morning search of archive for paper of other papers or other big people. Looking for what can be changed in those words to write a new paper. It'll suddenly get citation. I am telling you. This is approach is killing science. And it is so rampant in scientific community I cannot tell you. I know community, set of people who tell you, who will tell you honestly this is what they do. They'll start the archive search. Uska paper dekhna hai, uska paper dekhna hai. Aur usme kya change kar sakte? Usme getting kar sakte? It's okay if you cannot do nothing else but have you tried? Have you tried anything else? If you are doing this because these papers will give you bigger citations than your own idea, you think again why you came to scientific research. If you came to scientific research, this is all for those people who came to research for love of physics. If you came because love of physics, then what have you lost? What have you forgotten in this all way? Then you started doing this thing. So ask this question. Does this problem address an important or interesting issue? And this is very delicate. You can't be too ambitious. You can't be too ambitious. I'll solve this fundamental problem. You know, so this is where you need advice of senior people and all that. But also do not fool yourself with dishonest justification of a superficial analysis. You don't want to be a scientist who is incredibly proud of their work which nobody considers of any good. And sometimes it may happen for good works also, somebody, but quite often it is because work is not good actually. Quite often it happens. Work is not good. You're feeling incredibly proud because your personal work. What is happening? You're fooling yourself. Yes, fooling yourself. Honesty to yourself, I consider, I mean, I have major disagreements with Mahatma Gandhi. Major disagreement, but one thing I truly admire of Mahatma Gandhi is truthfulness to yourself. Truthfulness with that he lived for, I mean, he lived that way as much as possible. Amongst many we know. Lager of Munna Bhai, have you seen the picture? Lager of Munna Bhai, okay. So that's sort of illustrative. I think truthfulness to yourself answers everything here. So once you are true to yourself and once you are true to yourself, it also gives you courage, which is unmatched. So don't say these sentences, even as jokes, I hear these sentences, I must say I'm pained. I want to write a physical regulator. I want to write in nature. I want to write in nature. That's the statement. I want to write the science paper. That's the motivation. Paper problem demag me nahi hai bhi. Ye nahi hai idea ki subject me kaam karengi. I want to write a science paper. What is it? I mean, why have you come to scientific research if that's your main motivation for this? I believe such statements act as slow poison. They affect your basic attitude towards it and your sense of recognition. Sense of recognition. You are not able to recognize what is a good research problem on which you should work. Your recognition is coming from PRL thing. These journals are extremely good journals and very difficult to publish paper. So do not think I'm undermining these journals. If you get paper published in those journals, it's certainly very good paper because not possible to publish otherwise. They are highly competitively referred papers, the reviewed journals. So if you get, I'm talking about the motivation of this thing. So you choose a great problem and work and then try to publish in this. See what I'm telling you is this. So suppose you get a very good problem, you solve it beautifully and only journal which is going to publish is a very trivial journal. But a very popular journal, famous journal, has agreed to publish it when you cut down all the interesting things in there. What would you do? That is the test of your character. That is the test of your character. So everybody becomes PhD. So what is called PhD? Doctor of philosophy. You can, people say anything about philosophy? When did they learn anything about philosophy? Science used to be called natural philosophy. Connection to nature is disappearing in several branches and philosophy is completely lost. Nobody discussed philosophy. So can you say when your analysis is scientific, when not? And do you participate in discussions like this is not really science? So when people discuss like that, are these discussions silly discussions? This is not science. Anyway, this always was an important issue. It has become incredibly important issue in the last three years, I can tell you. Incredibly important, what is science, what is not science. You better learn what is science, what is not science. Otherwise you are going to all believe that Ganesha's cut hand is going to be, it tell us that we had a plastic surgery in our early, that's what it is. So you better learn what is science, what is not science. With only some vague notion of scientific method like predictive power or falsifiability, some sentences you have read, you do not make much difference from a point in a temple. A degree and a scientific research paper, they do not make you into scientists. You are a scientist, if you think scientifically, act scientifically, analyze scientifically. You should be a scientist in all these things. It's not a, but not a such paper, not degree, which makes sense. So you should learn philosophy at least to some level. So back to learning, get control of your education. So don't blame teachers and classes. You can blame them, but where will it matter? You can say, I didn't have good teacher, I didn't have classes. So hence I am a poor student, hence I suffered. Who is going to suffer? You are going to suffer. Your education is going to suffer. What's the point of blaming? Get control of your own studies and think in a positive way. And this is my way of thinking in a positive way. I say bad teachers are good. So why are they good? They give you choice. You don't want to learn, then you don't. They make you independent. If you don't learn yourself, then you don't learn. Independence, I think, is the most important criteria of equality of success. They teach you wrong things sometimes. And that's, I think, even better. You know, it's like going to a city and knowledge is like learning about roads. You go to different cities and you want to ask somebody, where is that building? And they tell you, that's that building. And you go and you reach that. If they tell you in the wrong direction, you will wander here, there, here, there, and you'll learn the whole city. That's what is going to happen. So basically I'm trying to put you that take advantage of every situation in a positive manner and get control of your studies. So if they don't motivate, then that's no excuse at all. If they don't motivate, you start asking your own question. Why you are in this field at all? If you need them to motivate. Painful to see fashionable statements displayed in bold in schools. Playful learning methods, creativity nurtured, all blatant lies. Teachers don't mean it and parents don't want it. There are very few schools, mainly in big cities, and I mean, I think Bombay has some, Bangalore has some, and it's very good for them. In fact, I envied my friends who were in big cities when we were, our child was growing up. But it was very difficult. So where alternative education system is provided for students. So even in institutions of advanced learning, IITs, ISRs, NYSR, and other such institutions, statements are given. Creativity and originality will be encouraged. Where is it? I had a story tell about NYSR because I was part of the, NYSR's blueprint was made in our second meeting in IOP and the statements was there that NYSR will be, the statement was written, that NYSR will be an institution where creativity and originality will be nurtured. So I asked that director was Professor Yogi at that time. In second meeting, I asked Professor Yogi, I was touched by the statement that in originality and creativity will be nurtured. I'm just confused because I didn't see anything following that. How will it be done? He said that's a challenge. That still remains a challenge by the way. So a good scientist is imaginative, creative, professional, and of course, technically competent. We take care only of the last part, but often at the cost of other part. And efforts made if at all for encouraging other quantities are almost a total failure. So imagination and thought experiment, you know, university education, generally more emphasis on descriptive learning, less on problem solving, but the room for concept is self-study. So I learned a really good deal of physics in my BSU because there was nothing to do for a whole year. For 11 months, you didn't have to study, nothing. You do what you want to do, and one month you prepare for a grams and you pass the exam, that's what you do. It's a terrible way of learning a subject, terrible way. You don't learn anything what they're teaching basically. But of course, you don't waste totally. Some people waste. Some of us didn't waste. We learned something else. And we were trying to explore our creativity originality, we did. So let's put it this way, when we were not learning any subject, at least we made use of this in terms of imagination and thought. But that's not really a good way of saying that system is any good. IIT, the ICES and ICES are very well-planned, very well-disciplined, and they do a fantastic job of teaching, but they're so much tight with time. So much tight with time. 8.30 in the morning to 6.30 in the evening, and there's no time. I don't know, I had a major disagreement with Professor H.S. Mani, Sirius Professor of IIT Kanpur, and I always used to tell him, we have a serious problem with too much time. I don't have any time to think about anything. All institutes are not like that. I'll give you, there's a Chennai Mathematical Institute. And now, same as just Mani H.S. Mani teaches there, and I just reminded him this time, Chennai Mathematical Institute, the people who are doing undergraduate courses, they have two classes the whole day, two classes, that's it. These are good students, two classes, they're loaded classes, but that's how they have two classes. Of course, at any time, they study very, very hard. Very, very hard, they study. The two classes, very loaded classes. So all I'm trying to say is that they're not a unique way of doing 8.30 to 5.30. There may be other ways of doing things like that. But anyway, the bottom line is there is no time left for any IT of these people to have to do anything. Let me just skip this part. I'll skip this part because I'm cutting short the time. So I want to come back to this. This also I'll skip. I have only two, three minutes, right? Now, okay, fine, okay. So let me talk about this. This is my favorite thing. It may not relate to you, but you may meet students, and you will appreciate this. Vernacular to English changeover. This issue may not be relevant to some institution, but very relevant to most students in India. Most important requirement for scientific learning is the free flow of imagination and completely free discussion, okay? Especially when learning qualitatively new ideas and concepts. And most students study in vernacular up to plus two level, most students. For them, higher study brings an abrupt change to English. And thinking in an alien language becomes hard, free discussion becomes impossible. And all that is when you are learning new subjects like special relativity and quantum mechanics. By the time the students become comfortable in English, they have gone through these subjects. So many important questions that they've given me a lot. So my own experience, I studied up to class 12 in Hindi, total Hindi. Technical words for Hindi. Wavelength was there for me. Sign was there. Cosign was there. And I go to VST, a Lahabah University. Everything is in English. I was totally lost. And I couldn't ask any question. I would sit and there was a class going on in mechanics, I remember. I was bubbling up with questions, but I couldn't frame sentences in English, so I couldn't ask anything. So eventually he started teaching special relativity. But my most passionate topic, I was really into it. And then I also noticed that there are people who are asking very good questions in very good English. And I have questions which are at least equally good or maybe more useful questions. So I got courage. And first question I asked. I always remember my first question. I ever asked a teacher in Hindi. I said, sir, what is time-dialytation in Vastameh? I was incredibly puzzled with time-dialytation. And I couldn't believe that it actually happens. The twin paradox, I said, cannot be true. That it cannot happen. It must be some coordinate artifact. So this teacher who was a gold medallist of Delhi University, very good teacher actually came to me. What do you mean by Vastameh? So I didn't know what to say. I had to say the career. So there were student friends sitting close to me. He said, sir, what he means is does it really happen. Then a discussion ensued. And I kept talking Hindi, kept talking English. My barrier was broken because of my tremendous desire to ask in relativity. And I had thought a lot about relativity. However, I would not have been able to ask. That was long ago. I went to Allahabad University for giving a colloquium. And the first time I gave a colloquium and I told my friend there I would like to give in Hindi. They said, no, no, no, no, give in English. It's UP. If you don't talk English, nobody respects you. So that's the problem. So I gave in English. But at the end of my talk, I told students, you ask questions in whatever language you want. English or Hindi? Not a single question was asked in English, not a single question. Students, they come from Hindi background dominantly. And because of them, even the students who were convient educated, even they felt embarrassed. Even they asked questions in Hindi. So questions were all Hindi. So next time I went, I prepared a colloquium entirely in Hindi, in Devanagari. In fact, this is on the website, your website we have. It's written in Devanagari script. Totally in Hindi. I talked in Hindi. And I cannot tell you the reception I received from there. So I'll just sum up the things. So students, the last question. Aapki baato se mujhe aisa aabhas hota hai. No, this sentence is very telling. This is telling intimacy of the thought of a student. And he could not have expressed in English because this boy was from Hindi background. He could not have expressed. This is what is needed. For a scientific discussion, this kind of intimacy with the language is needed. So my feeling is, oh, this is, I must say, my PhD students, Uriya students, very quiet in discussion. They wouldn't speak anything. So I used to always say, oh, you are very shy over there. So once there was an invitation to me from the relation about discussion session with an astrologer. So I said, aapku to Uriya ka chahi, I don't speak Uriya. Take my students. So they took the students. I watched that program on TV. There was a Jyotisha Charya and there was an anchor. Beginning Jyotisha Charya was very aggressive. There was one boy, one was a girl, my student. Toward the end, he was talking, madam, madam. Toward the end of the thing. Because they really tore him apart in Uriya. I had never seen them that bold in scientific discussion. I was astonished myself. My own students are so civil here. I had never known that they can discuss like that. Because they were speaking Uriya. They were absolutely remarkable in those discussions. That's what happens when you speak in a mother tongue. So what is needed actually is the buffer. When students come after 12, what's needed is the buffer. I think teachers have to be sensitive towards that. Do not take this as a license to start speaking in that language. Say Maharashtrian, Bengali, Tamil, that you start speaking in that language. I thought everybody else do not do that. Be sensitive to other people also present. But talk in mixed language. I mean, technical words are now mostly taught in English. That's all right. But they have to mix language. People should be able to express in whatever language they can express. And there should be some buffer period of that kind if you want a proper learning. Now, alienation physics experiment is something I feel very passionate about. So this is broken right from the beginning. The experiments are taught as black boxes. This is laboratory. And that's what you do there. That's the thing. You know, experiments start from your home itself. Then everything around you is experiment. What you need is a playful approach to our tools and components. I hope you have heard this story. Einstein is five-year-old, trembled and grew cold when he saw a magnetic compass. His uncle had given it, magnetic compass. He trembled and grew cold. Do our children's, do we give our children's magnetic compass as gifts at all these days? Do they even have time to play with them and grow cold and tremble and grow cold? No, they're busy in comfort, some more, some more. They don't have time to play with any of these things. Even the beautiful experiments of optics they do in lab in such a mechanical way, they completely deprise them of any pleasure. And most of it is not done. In my son's school, there was no experiments done at all. And he's clearing this exam. I said, you can't do this. So we brought a drawing board. We bought the optics board. We bought optics, you can do it at home. It's beautiful. You'll enjoy it, the experiment. You don't have to. Science projects were designed for students for these purposes. Science projects at school level were designed so students can explore their creativity. They don't. Most science projects don't originate from students. When we as judges, when we evaluate the project, I have stopped being judges. I don't participate in judging anymore because I get into trouble. Because students of high school intermediate level, they are building circuits where they don't understand. They have no idea. And much worse than that, science modeling competitions have turned into quiz competition, craft competition, with access to good electronic shocks, specializing in science model building, and heavy download. Students present someone else's work and claim they have made it. This is the worst damage you can do. You are teaching a student, this one is the right from childhood. When the judges will ask, son, have you made it? Yes, sir, I made it. And they have bought it. They have bought it. If they have not made it, their uncle has made it. Or their brother has somebody else has made it. Then say somebody else has made it. They are claiming somebody else's work as their own. You are compromising the integrity of a scientist, like someone in the childhood. You will see nothing wrong later on. In attempts to provoke students to be ambition and advance in thinking, the link to foundation is broken. They don't think a simple project is good enough. Simple project, high school intermediate, what they should be building. Lenses, magnets, wires, that's what they should be building. No, it has been nanotechnology. Unless they build nanotechnology, something about something, they won't. They will build circuits with it. They have no clue about the circuit. Nothing about that. But they will build those circuits. Science research is not a job. This is my family. It is a way of life. It will reflect in every aspect in your life. Otherwise, one is compartmentalize, part this and part that. So do you discuss science with others? Do you discuss science with others? Others doesn't mean go to villages only and talk with your parents, with your siblings, with the people who work in your home. Do you tell them? Do you tell them what exciting thing? So get involved in science education at popular level. And you'll be surprised how much you learn from that. It's very easy to explain a technical concept to another trained person. It's incredibly hard to explain a technical concept to a person who is not trained in science. Because you have to massage that topic, subject, that concept, modulate it, and tune it to the language of the person who that person understands. Every time you make that attempt, you understand it a little deeper. So start doing that, not for just, of course, it's your benefit. But also it's a matter of social responsibility. The knowledge which you have acquired in society, you have the obligation to share it with others. I'll stop in just two minutes, sorry. Oh, by the way, I mean, I said that you play with lens and magnet. I hope everybody watches science fiction movies. I advertise science fiction movies every time. You start enjoying science fiction movies. Okay, I think maybe I'll just stop here. Let me just skip these things. So I'll stop this final lesson. So this is somebody of what I have sold. Look inside you if you love physics. Get control of your own learning and training. And for learning stages, from learning stages to research level, never forget why you came for this. Never forget why you came for this, because you love it. And I had another story, but I will tell this thing. Okay, so it's a balanced learning pressure. Homewards exam, very important thing to do, but you should have some fun moments also. I never believed in this key, you know, suffering now for later pressure. It never convinced me. I would always combine the two. Okay, and so choose a research problem which you like, not with somebody else great scientist like. They're the difference between getting motivated by great scientist work and simply following them. And as I said, keep professional counseling is very important. So I'll stop with this. Robert Frost, two loads diverged in a wood and I took the one list leveled by. That has made all the difference. And I dare you to carve a new path for yourself. Thank you. We have some. I don't mind. Suggestions, comments, questions. I think there are several issues. I've been working on some of these issues several years and still not clear about what should be answered. So comments, feedbacks, questions, suggestions, anything is welcome. Sir, actually one of my professor has had a very interesting story. So what it was that he said that he was quite interested in physics right from his school level and then he got into university and all that. But he said that as he actually got into research he found out that the research was actually controlled by the funding agencies. So he wasn't allowed to work on the problems that really interested him and was forced to work on those that were actually required by the society to be solved as soon as possible. So he said that after that he just left doing research at all. So what do you think of this? It can happen. I am aware of certain institutions where this can happen. There are a lot of pressures of similar kind. You fight as much as you can. As I said, at every step you remind yourself why you came to this area because you love it but love can sustain you as much. If the other pressures are serious pressures and sometimes they can happen. If they are becoming too overpowering you have to decide, take some hard decisions and change. You are never one dimensional. Even if you love physics more there's always something which you love a little bit less than that. Shift to that. There's always going to be some pressure of this kind in the institutions. With every love you have to make some compromises. So even in this love maybe some compromise. Often you have to, often the compromises are not so serious that you have to quit it. Depend on, I just tell you one thing. I mean when I was a young faculty I'm not trying to tell you that this, every institution, every place had certain politics and things like that. So when I was a young faculty, we came up for promotion. Me and my wife were exactly at same level. We came up for promotion and I had taken up some fights with some people. So my promotion was getting delayed. Eventually we got promotion same day. But seriously delayed. She got promotion but seriously delayed. So some of my well-wishers told me your promotion is getting seriously delayed. It's not fair. You're going to talk to these authorities. I said, you know, what does this person think? You know, I came to physics because I love physics. I would do physics if I had to pay for it. I would do physics if they put me in jail for this thing. So does it think I do physics for promotion? I don't care. But saying this, I am fully appreciate what he has said. There are certain funding, it will block you from doing research what you want to do. Then what did you do? Then what did you do? I don't have a choice. Everyone does not know, means everyone has no clear cut about what they want to do. Put mic to you. Yes, sir. So everyone is not clear cut about what they want to do. Many are confused. So they need a force to guide them in some way at least. I completely agree. So how would you suggest that? Beautiful. Exactly that is the question. That is why precisely I say you need counselors. We need counselors who will discuss with you. The way it is decided right now is by completely arbitrary decisions. High marks or Sharma G and things like that. That's how it's decided. That's completely wrong. We are doing it. You need counselors. Counselors are not there in the schools. Counselors are not there in the schools. My advice will be first people, get hold of some scientist or if it is science or if it is suppose you want to go to music, get a hold of some people. By the way, you guys are in better position than we were. Internet is available. Expose yourself. Go to whatever you wanted to, whatever areas come to your mind. See something you will have to come up. So come up with dozen ideas. Go to all those internet searches. Talk to people in those areas. Search as much as you can. And then contact people in those areas. Educate yourself. It's your life. Don't forget, you are going to live entire life in that area. It is your moral responsibility and full responsibility to educate yourself, expose yourself, and do something about it. So yes, but everyone does not have resources, right? Internet, everybody has. Yes, I know it is. Cyber cafe, 20 rupees, one hour. Everybody has access. I don't believe that everybody doesn't have. Of course, even in remote villages, I'm telling you, I'm part of some education program in Bhuvaneshwar. We got people completely from rural areas, and I told them precisely this. Educate yourselves. And you don't have internet in your village, but you go to neighboring places where you have internet. Take 20 rupees, it costs you. And just 20 rupees, spend one hour there, and educate yourself. And here's my mobile number. Call me from that place. And tell me, call me that thing, or send me an email, and I'll respond to you in detail. Whomever you come in contact, you ask them, people are happy to help. They're teachers. We are all teachers. We want you guys to contact us. We want to help you. So contact teachers, and they will help you. They will guide you. I just wanted to make a comment on this person's question. Life is not just a straight and narrow career path. There are many people who, people also evolve and new interest develop. You can always make a change. Many people have that. I completely agree. I completely agree. You said, I, in response to you, I said, it's never a one-dimensional interest. If you are most interested at some topic, that is only at that time, T, by the way, even that interest will change. And even at that time, you have several other interests. And it can, the trajectory is like that. And we'll be flexible about that. India doesn't allow too much flexibility. That part is true. Other places, you have more flexibility, but there's still some flexibility. We don't utilize that full flexibility even in India. Questions, comments? Yeah. Just another question related to this interest thing. I mean, how do I know when I'm really interested in something? Is there some way of figuring out because as a young person, I might be interested in this and in this and this. So is there something that you'd like to say about? Yeah, it's a very difficult question. I don't know how to answer this question in a concrete way. What I will say is the interest keeps changing. As I told you, when I was a child, I wanted to become a doctor. So it kept changing. So, and it kept changing. I went along. It's called co-moving flow, right? So my interest kept changing. As time went along, I kept changing my interest. And at any point, I do think I had reasonably clear idea, at least for myself, that this subject interests me more than other things. At least for me, this happened. I think it happens with many people. What he was asking the question, if it doesn't happen for you, then what do you do? And I think if it doesn't happen, suppose you get confused. So I find this interesting, that interesting, that interesting, all of them interesting or none of them equal any interesting at all. You need people to talk to. You need people to talk. So actually, yeah, maybe this question elaborates more. Suppose I said, you can explore the internet, but you will explore internet only if you know that these are subjects. Suppose you are totally confused. You have no idea. You talk to some people. Somebody has to ask you questions to remind you and cultivate your interest in something. Okay, let's see whether which subject you find challenging, which subject you find interesting. If you don't find anything interesting amongst the subject you have found, you have not exposed yourself enough, I would believe. Expose yourself more, you will probably find. It's probably, you know, it's like this, you, you, you find every dish equally tasty. Very, very unlikely. I haven't found anybody who finds every dish absolutely of equal taste. So find your taste. You'll find something more tasty than other. Eat more variety of food, that's what I'm saying. You should find more, something tasty. Just want to add something interesting that happened to me. Recently visited a place, I don't know how many of you know. There's a place in Udaipur called Swaraj University. I don't know how many of you know about this place. This place is a kind of a space for people, young people from 18 to 25. It's a university, but it's not a university. It's a place for you to discover your own interest, your own likings. So it's a two-year program wherein you can do trekking, you can do whatever you want. You want to do music, dance, drama, theater, anything you can do. You can do science also. They are very good students doing biology, microbiology, and physics there. It's an open program. So there are places now coming up even in India. They of course don't give a degree unless and you ask for it. It's not a valid degree anywhere. It's just for your own discovery of your own self and your interest. So there are places coming up in India also. Of course you have to do your basic education and then enter that place where you can discover your own liking. Or you can do it before and then do a formal degree. So you can, after you're 12, you can go to this place, discover yourself for two years, see what, explore various things, do something for one month, two months, that with of course help of mentors. So they have collaborations with several good institutions in India, including IITs, where students are mentored for short duration in various topics, various subjects. And then they come back and share their ideas with this place. It's a very traditional old place, developed, it's called Tapavan Ashram, you read about it, it's a very interesting place. But this is actually coming up in India now. So I think people are realizing importance of these places, these kind of places. And probably eventually after you finish your masters, probably your bachelors, you will get some place where you can actually do this exploration and discovering your own interest. Actually, I would say that while you are doing this thing, since students are not in habit at all of determining their own interest, start doing local optimization, I call it. The global optimization of all activities is of course very ideal thing, but at least start with local optimization, what fields you know, what thing you have been exposed to. At least determine from that whether you have any interest. If you find confusing answers, then look for bigger options like this. Whatever fields you have in this thing. The first thing is, I mean, just don't follow blindly what somebody has told you. Absolutely, stop, do not agree for that. Do not agree for that. And I have been told by people that I have tried with my parents and they have not listened. I have only told them watch three videos again and plead to them the way Farhan pleaded with their father. Your parents will listen. Plead like that. Stop here. Thanks, Professor Ajit for this entire, that says everything. Thanks a lot. So Ajit will be available for you people to meet till dinner time. He is leaving tomorrow unfortunately in the morning. So you can catch him next four to next two.