 We'll wait for a minute. All right, 10 seconds. OK, welcome, everybody. We don't have Neri here, but maybe she'll pop in. None of us have heard that she wasn't coming, so hopefully she'll pop in. So I want to apologize for last week, last minute not being able to come, but nature, the storms were terrible, so I wasn't able to make it. Does anybody have any additions or modifications to the agenda tonight? And then anybody for public forum? Yes, why don't you if you could come up to the mic. That would be great. And then just state your name. And so Laura, and maybe Laura, if you need the spelling, we can get it now, too. Thank you. Excuse me, S-E-R-R-I-L-L, flash, F-L-A-S-H. I feel kind of selfish. This is likely not to be the correct forum for stating such views, but I've been back in town since 05, so that's 14 years. As you can probably tell, a huge bicycle and pedestrian safety advocate. And I happen to believe strongly in the 25 mile per hour speed limit, which for various policy reasons, from what I can see is not enforced. It's a purposeful, I assume, just acknowledgment that maybe we can achieve those means better through infrastructure than enforcement. So still, this time of year, with students coming back and big change over in population, I think it's critical that somehow Burlington better address the safety issues involved in speed limits. I mean, if I had my way, everybody that's on the clock would be required under penalty of firing. So this includes buses, police, pizza people, ambulances. Unless it's an emergency, fire everybody. It's got a logo on their truck or their car or whatever. So it's mostly about if somebody gets hit over 25 miles an hour, it's much less chance of you're not, it's much more likely you're going to get serious injury. So I believe that I know South Burlington, Winnowsky, Burlington has major roadways, of which 25 is the speed limit. So how we create that culture, I don't have a clue. And I know infrastructure is part of it. I'd love to think that enforcement, some day, could be part of it. And whether it's selective or not, it happened to be on East Avenue, R Street. I worked to get a traffic calming initiative going, so we're on the queue for that with DPW, but it takes years. And so I'd like to see something happen sooner. And I'll stop talking about that now, even though it's important to me. The other minor, or I think potentially major concern is I'd love to see the police on their bicycles more. Maybe I just miss them, but I know years back that they were purchased, and I'm assuming they're used somewhat. I'd love to see them more all year around on the streets, on their bikes. But thanks for listening. Well, thank you for coming. Thank you. Appreciate it. Anybody else, were you interested in talking during the public forum? Nope? Okay. Next up is the chief's report. Thank you. Hello, everybody. Good evening. And thanks for being here, and thank you for having me here. I'm again, filling in for Chief Delpozo and for Acting Chief Wright at the moment. So I just thought I'd start with a little recap of what the month has been since August 1st through August 27th for the men and women of this department, and our dispatchers, and our social workers too. There have been a total of 2,334 incidents, and that included seven untimely deaths, and five attempted suicides, and three ODs that were non-fatal. And four aggravated assaults, and 45 incidents of domestic disturbance or domestic assault with misdemeanor or felony, and the family traumas that those carry. 131 incidents that were carried as disturbances or disorderly conduct or threats of harassment. About 100 incidents that were carried as noise or fireworks, which picked up a little bit when the students re-arrived. We had members of our department such as our social worker going to homeless encampments and dealing with incidents involving or policies involving those who were undomiciled. We had our social worker, Jackie Corbally, doing screenings of people who come in during the daytime for arrests and ensuring that they get resources. The big events I think that we covered in our last meeting, the fact that we'd apprehended Alfred Wischer in Savannah, Georgia, who was the perpetrator of the Clark Street shooting back in March. On August 2nd, we had a suicide on the marketplace, at the marketplace garage. We had two beach and parkers who were younger employees of our summer employees who saw that and were participating in making sure that we had a perimeter around the incident. And absorb that. One of those individuals really wants to be a police officer at some point. And she took it well, but we put resources with her to make certain that we were sort of seeing them through that first time for them. That same day, we swore in new police officers in sort of a circle of things and the new officers that we have currently down at the police academy. On August 3rd and 4th, there was of course the El Paso shooting with 22 killed and the Dayton shooting with 10 killed. And while those did not happen here, we had lots of calls for reassurance, whether that was from other entities in town that wanted additional deployments of officers or wanted off-duty officers to be working there as details. We had news requests, et cetera. On August 6th, we had a person shot in the head with a BB gun at a tent in the Immaculate Conception Yard. That tent had been put up unlawfully and was taken down, but was part of the disorder that that tent sort of brought around with it. I actually apprehended that individual as he biked away from us down in the south end of town. On the 7th, we had the Dope Sick, the author of Dope Sick came and spoke at Contoy's Auditorium, Chief Wright, and I attended, as well as the mayor and many others to hear her take on the opioid epidemic and also to share what this city has accomplished. On August 9th, we had an armed robbery at the Pine Street Cumberland Farms and that individual was apprehended in Norwich on August 19th, owing to good work from this department and maintaining relationships with other police departments around the state, sharing information appropriately. And we announced that on the 22nd after we had allowed Norwich to get certain things done with regard to their involvement in the church who are having a lot of issues with people in the church and ideas for how to try to address these utterfants at the City Hall Park. In order to minimize any kind of potential conflict, I started my shift at 0400 that morning so that we could move it while people were not yet there, including individuals who are more likely to be upset when we expanded that fence line because they had taken to, they now sit right in front of the fence on the sidewalk so that the situation doesn't change and it's not solved by that fence line and the fence line was not sitting in that specific location area. But on August 15th, we had a first responder night at Centennial Field that the Lake Monsters sponsored. We brought the ERV up there and handed out plentiful amounts of our patch and stickers. On the 18th, we had a robbery and assault on North Street and Corporal Mike Henry did a really good job of tracking those individuals, figuring out that a driver who appeared to be involved was not involved and we have one arrestee and another two individuals who we have very good lines on. On the 19th, we had an assault at the Downtown Transit Center. Sergeant Nguyen made a terrific apprehension by doing a lot of investigative work and then finding and contacting the suspect who had previously been arrested by this department several years ago for distributing KKK flyers. And Sergeant Nguyen was able to talk him into coming in and turning himself in in a way that was safe for him, safe for the suspect and safe for our neighbors. But then we were able to work with the state's attorney to make it. On August 22nd, and former police commission member Pete Berenberg who's on the 25th department at Zoe's race, a wonderful access and making buildings can get funding for access for around the 10K, I was first in my age group. This morning, we committee to review community policing practices, that's a mouthful and I know what it is, I think going to be a good place for getting ideas about that do in fact change use of force policy specifically for the day of school for our school district here, that there's good representation by officers at those locations with students around the city. That's the month for us. I mentioned some of the incidents that occurred the untimelys for example, the suicide attempts, the suicide that happened on the parking garage because of a piece that was written recently, the New York city police department has had nine suicides this year which is an incredibly high number even for that large a police department. And I believe seven of them have been since the beginning of the summer. And an article was written about that when asked what they imagine would be the hardest part of being a cop, many people say that they think first of the risk of encountering dangerous situations, chasing a suspect into a dark alley, being shot at or kicking down a door, but police incidents, traumatic incidents that can weigh just as heavily on their emotions and psyches. For instance, imagine the horror of the children were killed. In 2013, research journal of stress management examining the relationship between critical incidents and it found that such episodes are associated both with critical incidents include a range of experiences that police officers, including badly beaten child, decaying corpse, personal harm or injury. One survey of 193 police officers from small and mid-sized police departments found that the average number of events witnessed by officers was 188 through their career. And that included seeing dead bodies regularly and most within the past year. There's a lot that the job does. There's a lot of great things too. There's creamy with cops and there are opportunities to connect with neighbors and to make really positive changes. It's a tough job too. And the men and women in this department. The stressful situations. Social workers will work with the police. So our social workers are not here to support the police officers necessarily, although I think that they probably are capable of recognizing if they see certain signs in officers. We have other wellness apparatus available to us through the city, through people with whom we work, such as Sonny Provedo who does counseling and is a former police officer. Insofar as those kinds of situations, some of those are situations that social workers have a relationship with the street outreach team of those kinds of situations. But others are police officers responding. And many of those incidents, at least in our current mode of doing things, require officers to be on those scenes in order to be the apparatus of public record for the sake of the municipality, for example, whether it's a car accident or a suicide in a public place or untimely deaths, et cetera. The medical examiner comes too, but the officers are gonna be summoned as well. Was it a great report? I'll mind you a lot of the stuff that I'm gonna be talking about in the coming. So I wonder if it would please that if we might have an opportunity to have Sonny come in and tell us a little bit. I mean, just to educate us on the agency. I certainly don't imagine that he would object to that. All started. He's now doing kind of a second component. The officers who go there, Sonny does his work, and then there's a whole mindfulness and yoga component that Jim is bringing to the table. So they're hoping to do more with the department and do more with recruits as they come back from the Vermont Police Academy to kind of give them insight into all the resources that are available and what they can do. So I've talked to both of them recently, and I'm sure that they would both love to come and speak to you all about what they can do. Great, good idea, Mark. And I was, along those lines, I was thinking as the chief was reporting, because I always look forward to your report or to Brandon's report, because there's always a lot of good stuff in there. But I always wonder about whether or not we should have some kind of standardized format for reporting, not to box you in or anything like that, but just so we can have some kind of framework for measurement or some kind of the strength of the force by category in terms of the classification levels of the law enforcement officers that you currently have on staff. I know that there are some who are trained in canine expertise, some have drug related detection expertise. There are some who are regular, there are some who are probationary, there are some who are limited, there may be some who are special. So I would be interested in seeing the breakout maybe as one of those things that we would receive on a reporting basis, just because I'm interested and I'd like to know what our force looks like, what the composition of is. Maybe there's something to report out on the status of FTOs, those who are currently in training and so forth. So I think that that would be very useful information for us as commissioners, just to kind of have an eye on if you will on the state of the force, because I am interested in the state of the force, not if I'm being called to be accountable as a commissioner, then I'd like to understand more about the state at any given time. So that's just agency, but I wonder if you could maybe educate us as to what constables do. The other thing is, I'd be interested in understanding what level of certification each of these officers have in this agency, level one, level two. They're all level three, full law enforcement. Do you think you could all, on that note, maybe you could send me an email and all of you as well, if they're like, I didn't get all those things that you listed, but if you could all email me these topics that you would like to be considered on a more routine basis, maybe they're not every month, but every quarter or whatever, just so we can make sure that we're all on the same page and manage that going forward. So just a point of order and for process, I would make a motion to the commission that we would consider creating a template that we would present to the chief to create a framework for, like a chiefs report framework on those things that the commission would deem appropriate for reporting on making a motion that we would. Before we make a motion, I'd like a little discussion to see if anyone, anyone have any thoughts about Commissioner Hughes's? Madam Chair, a point of order. When the motion is on the floor, the discussion comes after the seconding of the motion. Okay, thank you. I guess there's no discussion. So just so I understand, help me out on that. So the motion, you're making a motion, you suggested a motion that we actually do this. When did, when did the discussion come first? Typically, you have the motion and then you have the discussion, but there's no second at this point, so. So in order for the motion to carry it would need to be at least one person on the commission to second the motion and then before any vote, we would need to have a discussion. We're talking about Robert Hughes, right? Yeah, yeah. Motion didn't carry, motion didn't carry. Okay, so any other questions for Chief Muran? No? Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm now next is Task Force Update. I understand the Task Force met for the first time, so love to hear from our commissioners who are on the Task Force. Absolutely, we had our first Task Force meeting this morning. It was pretty much getting to know each other and outlining the city's resolution. We reviewed that and we're trying to narrow the scope of what to really focus on. A couple of things we're having are analysis of any oversight structures, use of force policy, officer training, police information disclosure practices, disciplinary processes, officer wellness initiatives, data collection, data quality, data analysis. And so we've requested some information and then I believe the ball will really start getting rolling in about two weeks time. It'll be a meeting about twice a month for roughly about two hours each time. How many members did it appear to have? I know not everyone would have been there today, necessarily. I believe everyone, all but one person was there. So, yeah, 14, 15. In addition to the attorney. So what you just listed is what the Task Force asked for some data. Did I understand that correctly? Well, I listed, sorry, I just kind of read the resolution of the scope of the things that we wanted to analyze. But there was some data was asked by a couple of the members on there. And I'm actually quite impressed with the mix of people on the committee and how engaged everybody is on the committee. So we'll get forward to it. I did understand that the meetings are open. So if anybody wants to attend the meeting, I didn't realize that. So maybe if you could send us the dates of when the meetings are. Anybody else on the commission just wants to go and listen. I'd like to do that. Pardon? They will be posted. They will be posted, yeah. But I think if I may bond. So Laura is serving as an organizer for this committee as well. And I think that once it's going out to a doodle poll in order for the many members to be able to figure out when they're gonna meet next. I don't think it would be burdensome to send a direct message to this body about when that next meeting is scheduled, once it is scheduled, so that if any of you wish to attend you can do so. Commissioner Hughes was there this morning. And I think that it would be useful for people to see. I also believe that the intention is to, it was recorded today in an audio format. I believe the intention is to have it video recorded and possibly put on 17 would be my guess, but for those who can't attend. Yeah, so they'll be after this one in audio recording and minutes in the next few days. I'm not sure about how far in advance or so, Jordan is kind of heading it right now. Well, as of today, they did appoint a chair. She's CD Madison. I can't get into her background, but there was a unanimous appointment of her as the chair. And so she'll be kind of, I'll try to work with her. I don't know how far advanced meetings are going to be scheduled, if it'll be a doodle poll every few weeks for the next meeting, but as soon as I know, I can pass it along, but it will be posted as a public meeting. Okay, number five, review role of police commission and citizen complaints. I had put this on the agenda, mostly as a courtesy to the new commissioners. We as a commission, commissioner Hart, and anyway, we had actually posted or voted to bring this to the public safety committee, but I wanted to review it and make sure you guys, you know, answer any questions that you had and if there's any glaring concerns, we can certainly address them, but the plan is to actually bring it back to the public safety committee. So I don't know how much you actually talked about it last week, but it's still on the agenda. So does anybody have any questions about it? Madam chair, this is the second iteration, this is the second time it's come back to us? Yes. So it's when it comes? Well, yes, it's the second time that when we presented it, they had us make a couple of changes. We've made those changes and now we've done what the public safety committee wanted us to do, and now we need to bring it back to them. My question was more along the lines of whether or not this was vetted with title 20, with the, I'll hand it off to you guys at the beginning of the meeting called Act 56, 2018, the Criminal Justice Training Council went in and revamped the entire misconduct, misconduct processes and also created a model internal affairs process. And I think it's a valid internal affairs process. So I was just wondering, had this particular document been vetted against that, because I know this entire process began prior to last year when that was passed, specifically has our internal affairs policy been vetted against the model internal affairs policy at the statewide level, and are the, does this map to categories A, B, and C of unprofessional conduct of title, title 20, 24, 10, as far as what the council passed for all 79, with the Criminal Justice Training Council passed for all 79 agencies. So that's what this documentation is all about. It talks about, which you'll see is if you go to the last page, there's even a conduct reporting form in there. This was issued for all agencies across the state to use. I was wondering if we had even seen this form before, because are these instances of professional misconduct have they been mapped against our process? My only concern is, is we might be operating kind of in a little bit of a vacuum, because it looks like the state's covering this. I wanna make sure that we're doing this consistent with what has been prescribed by the, for my criminal justice training council, in terms of internal affairs. It's my understanding that this whole, this process, this process surrounding complaints, chief would result in an internal investigation. Is that correct? Not automatically, but in many instances, yes. Did you review our directives for internal investigations and see how it comports with this? I have not had the capacity to do that. Okay, so I am not entirely certain this would be a question I regret that I would defer this to Chief Wright if she were here and her greater experience in this, insofar as following the council's sort of template. I don't know if you have anything to add, Corporal. Yeah, so certainly we have, our directive has a very clear picture of how internal investigations are performed. And furthermore, that's dictated by the contract of the BPOA and the nature of progressive discipline. And I would relatively confidently assume that we are in comportment with this, even if we are not using its exact formats and standards. And any reporting that needs to be done up to the state level has been done. We are in compliance with that. Again, I defer to Chief Wright on that, but I'm confident that that's the case simply because that is her nature. If there are requirements of that sort that those are being conducted and complied with. Having just received this at the beginning of the meeting, I'd have to take a look at it first in order to understand what it says and the ways in which it interacts with our directives, which are available and certainly to all of you anytime you want. And I'll find our internal directives and share them with this body so that everybody can sort of see how these do match up or not. But in other instances, I know, in cases that I have dealt with, things that have been promulgated by the Criminal Justice Training Council, there are oftentimes recommendations and best practices that are offered and those are guidelines for agencies to develop their own or to have ready-made procedures or directives for agencies that are a little smaller and maybe need that template available to them. And then there are others, some that are encoded in the law and have to be done in certain ways. And fair and impartial policing would be an example. There are certain aspects of that that have to be by the state included in any internal department directive. But that doesn't mean that the directive can't either go further than it or add things to it, et cetera. It just means that there are certain things that must be present for that. So I know, for example, that our fair and impartial policy was created with the mayor, with the city attorney, and to the extent that it has differences between the model that was presented at the state level, those have been determined to be in the city's best interests by the powers that be. So I... And I just wanna add that this is really about our role as a commission where the internal investigations is completely, these are tangential, right? But this is, what we're looking at is our role as a commission. And so I think that discussion of the internal policies in Act 56 is actually a different analysis than this policy since this is... This doesn't get into the internal affairs, this is... Right. How do we take it after that is completed? So I believe this body has had a lot of practical experience in certainly in the time that I've been here in how internal investigations are conducted here via exposure and via often in executive session, but being able to actually see the way in which we do things and the way in which the chief works through certain processes and incorporates your input and presents to you. To the extent that getting you those directives, that you can actually see what's there in writing versus the way that it is done. And to the extent that this may have some points to be added that are examples of best practice that could be, oh, that would work or that would be an interesting addition to what we've already experienced or what we see, that would be useful. So I can give, again, that directive and make sure that a copy of it is sent to everyone. It looks like that the Vermont Cruel Justice Training Council has taken a look at alleged misconduct in categories of C as well as when the chief is implicated. It looks like there's a couple of instances where they would want to be informed on the investigative process and become involved. And I'm concerned that we're not really taking, I don't know, maybe I'm confused, but to me it seems like we're not looking at that aspect of the complaint process locally here. That's the only thing that concerns me here. So we should, you know, we're just getting this from you, right? Of course, of course. It's great to have this, but we need, I think we all, I can speak for myself, I would like to have the opportunity to look at this. That's kind of the reason why I hated it out, was I mean, I didn't expect us to come to any definitive conclusions, but I wanted to at least put in front of you what was concerning me, otherwise it would have been a much more conversation for me to have. So I would urge the commission to kind of take a look at, the commissioners to take a look at this as a concern is all. Just so I can clarify, is the concern that the police commission is not directly reporting to about just the training council? No, that's not the concern. The concern is that the department is in that there are some requirements that the department has in terms of their responsibility in internal affairs investigations, just like there's a fair and impartial policing policy that's model statewide, there's also an internal affairs policy that's model. Right, so to be great, so the role of the police commission in reviewing officer complaints, it's independent of the interactions that the department has with state agencies. I understand that. So I guess because you said, is there something- So we don't want to create any process or policy that's in conflict with it though, do we? Do you see something that's in conflict between the two? I'm not sure yet. Okay. So you're not sure whether this, the role of the Burlington Police Commission in reviewing complaints is your concern that might be something that's- I think our city attorney should tell us. Well, the city attorney wrote this, so we can, you want the city attorney to talk to us about this and how it relates to Act 56? I would like to see that. Okay. Myself being only one vote, I would urge the chair to move forward. Well, I'd like, yeah, I'm trying to understand it. Just so, Commissioner Hughes, I'm trying to understand because I, the purpose of this is to make sure that as police commissioners, we have visibility to all complaints against any officer. We also have full transparency for any information that we want, whether it's video, I'll just sit down here, particularly video, but any written records available, et cetera, that we have access to those and we have full transparency to, and then we can have a discussion with the chief and make sort of, you know, understand what the chief's rationale is for discipline and give input. We don't actually make the decisions, but we have visibility and we can decide as a commission, do we think the chief is acting in the best interest of the city? So that there is some transparency to that. I'm still having a hard time understanding how this would impact this. I don't have anything else to add to it. I'm not certain that it does or it doesn't, but it does concern me as I have it. I'm gonna figure it out. You know, there's a need now to run into attention. So do we know so many thoughts we should pursue that before bringing this to the public safety committee? I'm not sure. I would think we can bring the policy to the public safety and still look at this over the next month. I know I'm looking at this just quickly and it references that there's a model internal affairs policy. We can look at it and see next month if we think this is something that should go to the city attorney. I think it's hard for any of us to really say anything, but we haven't looked at it to digest it. Well, I mean, I've looked at this before. I don't personally see any conflict between the police commission policy and the role of the police commission would be committed as police officers and what's stated, 96, right? I just don't see any conflict there. So I mean, it's possible there is a conflict that I don't see, but I've seen, I've seen six before and I didn't see a conflict. So unless I see more signs that there actually is a conflict, unless I see kind of what the conflict might be, I'm not concerned about the compatibility of these two documents. I mean, whether the document, stating the role of the police commission and complaints against officers is an adequate document. I think it's independent of whether the report for that could be six, because I just don't see a conflict. Well, we've already, as a commission, voted to take this to the Public Safety Committee. We can take this to the Public Safety Committee and then if there needs to be any changes in the future, we can make those changes. Well, because it's supposed to be subject for ongoing review. Yeah, it's a, yeah, it's an ongoing. Good, that sounds reasonable. Okay, all right. So I think Commissioner Hart, this was your agenda item, use of technology and assisting investigations, is that? Yes, I mean, I just wanted to know, I mean, I thought it was not going to come this meeting at the next meeting, so I'm happy to ask the question now. We can move it. I'm happy to table it to the next meeting. I wonder if you would like to do that. Okay, so we'll table that to the next meeting. Have you raised the issues so that, did you want to put on the statement you'll be wanting to have answer? Yeah, so the concerns are kind of the, whether or not the Police Department has any partnerships with, with private surveillance companies like Amazon, Ring, et cetera, in order to have, to, I mean, there are various partnerships that companies like Ring have with various Police Departments across the country, so whether or not it has any such relationship. So it is, if not, whether or not it has any, but the Police Department has any plans to partner with such companies in the future. And then also with respect to facial recognition systems and whether or not the Police Department has any interesting, has any plans or current use of facial recognition systems for in-assisting investigations, et cetera, and whether those are guided by any sorts of policies, ethical policies, et cetera. Okay. Yeah. Great, so we'll put that on the agenda for the next meeting. Great, thank you. Car stop data? Now that, you know, and any follow-up questions regarding that? I know there was some discussion last meeting. Yeah, I just, it was, I was told to put it, keep it on the agenda, but I wasn't sure. So now you've had time to review and digest. So if there were questions, otherwise we can move on. Okay. So it's more, if there's follow-up questions, let us know now, and if not, then we can remove it from the agenda, I suppose. And if at any point, somebody wants to, you know, have some questions about it, we'll just add it back on the agenda. Laura, thank you for sending the commendation letters. To, not to anybody in particular, right? But to the whole team of people that responded to both incidents, that was great. Any commissioner updates or comments? Mark, did you make it to Peter Barenberg yesterday, to the bagel? I thought for sure you would be there. Well, I wanted to go, I think it was something else happening that day, of course. It was yesterday, right? No, it was last week, wasn't it? I don't know. One day melts into the next, I'm sorry. It was last week? Yeah. Was it well attended? It was very well attended. When you give out free creamies, you end up with people attending. So I think the news got out through the neighborhood. I'm not entirely certain how many of them knew immediately that it was us, they just knew there was free creamies and there was a line, so they got in it. But yeah, we got some kids that got to climb all over the ERV and it was a nice day. I thought it was very nice. Officers were there and supervisors. Officer Orphant drove our robot around and let the kids see how that worked and chased a couple of them with it. But it was really good. That's great. Sorry, my sense of timing is a little warped right now. A robot, robot, or something like that? It's not, so the state police have a bomb disposal robot that looks like Johnny number five from that old movie, Short Circuit, relatively large and has treads and moves. Ours is, it's two independent wheels that can move it around. It's basically, it looks like a, it's a cylinder with two wheels on the ends of that cylinder. And in the center is an eye. And so you can pilot it around, it can go up and down certain amounts of elevation, but it has a viewfinder and we can see what it sees. So we've used it to great effect being able to toss it inside locations when we have a suspect or when we want to see the inside of a location before we're going to make entry. Several weeks ago, probably July, but it might have been June, I got called out to a scene in the middle of the night, but the advantages of living in town now, so it's close by, for a, we had a woman who had allegedly been injured by a domestic partner and he was inside a location, not responding to us. And we believed there to be a rifle in the location and we were able to throw the device in, locate that rifle on the first floor where he was not. And then once we had a sense of that first floor and a belief that we could safely enter without confronting him and also take control of that rifle, we were able to do so and the robot was what gave us that intelligence. So then we made entry, took control of the first floor, got the rifle out of the scene and then made contact with him, also throwing the robot to the second floor to take a look at that scene before we began to ascend the stairs. So really useful device allows us to slow things down, control the pace and get as much intelligence as we can in order to communicate with folks rather than going in blind, which can have negative outcomes. How big is the robot? It is about this size. So it's a, imagine, I would say that the center part of it is the size of a paper towel roll that's half used. So half your, I don't know, what's a brand, Hefty? No, that's Trash Banks, whatever it is. The one of those companies. Brawny, there we go, there we go. Brawny, half used and then wheels on the ends. Can it go upstairs? If the stairs are small, but not large stairs, no. But we can throw it up, which we've done. Yeah, I don't understand when you said that. That's why I asked how big it was. Right, because it's small enough to throw. It is the, it's literally throw it up the stairs. Yeah, it's designed for that kind of sort of rough and tumble. I wouldn't throw it up. 15 flights of stairs are down 15 flights, but one it'll do. Just one comment or just a reminder to folks, if you can't make the meeting, just shoot me an email. I think everybody actually has my cell phone now. I'll reach out to Neri, because I don't think anyone knew that Neri wasn't coming. I just got a message from her that she's sick. Okay, gotcha, okay. Now we're just gonna do the consent minutes from the previous commission meeting, July 30th. I move to approve them. Next meeting agenda items. Anything else that we want on the agenda that we've talked about? Okay. Next meeting schedules for September 24th. Is that still looking good for everybody? June 24th. I'll have to double check. I should be back. I believe I fly back. I should be back that day from vacation, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I might have followed a similar. And we know how that goes. Exactly. I'll keep you updated on my health. Okay, it's to be a monthly thing. We end up going. Yeah, there's three. There's two in a row now, so. Okay. I don't believe we need executive session. To my knowledge, no. Okay, I'm motion to adjourn. Move to adjourn. Second. All in favor? All in favor? Okay, meeting adjourned. Thank you. So, I don't know what's going on, but what is wrong with me? This is not the wrong thing.