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This is Frank Knight Our guest on the long gene chronoscope this evening is Princess Alexandra Kropotkin a direct descendant of the first sorrowful Russia Her father was exiled from czarist Russia because of his liberal views Princess Kropotkin returned to Russia in 1915 lived there through the early days of the revolution and it was her fate to be imprisoned by the communists in Time she escaped to America and has since worked for the liberation of her people May I present princess Kropotkin? our co-editors are Mr. William Bradford Huey editor of the American Mercury and Mr. Henry Haslett political economist and associate editor of Newsweek magazine The opinions expressed are necessarily those of the speakers Princess Kropotkin Secretary Atchison testifying on June 26 before a congressional committee Said that America's quarrel today is not with world communism or with the dictators in the Kremlin But with old-fashioned Russian nationalism He said and I quote it is clearly said that this process of encroachment and consolidation By which Russia has grown in the last 500 years from the Duchy of Moscow V to a vast empire must be stopped Now do you agree with that statement of the issue now? I never agree with Mr. Atchison anyway. That's a Machiavellian statement, and I think the rather bad one What do you think is wrong with it? Well after all There went communism at the present moment. There wouldn't be Russian nationalism imperialism There'd be a country where there was some kind of perhaps democracy for the people Well, do you think that this view of the subject tends to? Consolidate the Russian people with Stalin instead of recognizing the fact that a lot of them are opposed to the Stalin regime Well 80 percent is supposed to be opposed and probably more And I don't think that there are very many Russians as opposed to communists We're in the least interested in expansion territorial expansion or anything of the kind what what is the evidence of the dangers? What what is the evidence as you see it that they're that percentage of the Russian people that are opposed? Oh, that's a long story to go end of what? one considers as the Why one considers it's 80 percent. That's about that one Here's that from people who will escape from Russia from the quantities of prisoners from There are many sources of evidence all of which has been connected by various groups now It's quite a good deal of evidence What do you think is the main thing that can be done to take advantage of that situation? We have these potential allies in Russia Well many things propaganda, of course such as being carried on Perhaps accentuated Propaganda by various radio free Russia and so on I Think the American people would like to hear Something from you about actual life in Russia and one of the things that we hear a great deal about a Russian secret police Now in America where nobody's afraid of a policeman The average American finds it hard to find it difficult to believe all the stories we hear about the effectiveness of the Russian police Now how is it possible for the Russian secret police to exert for such terror among the people? Well, first of all, it's a quantitative thing. You'll see under the Tsar's the secret police the Ochrana Was a personnel of about five thousand people in Russia today. There are over two million M card and their day agents and so on that's the Russian Communist secret police Yes, and how many how many people how many Russians would you estimate have been put in concentration camps? Well, that estimate varies it varies from 12 to 20 million people And how many were in in? How many political prisoners were then an average year under the Tsar? Oh The figure never exceeded much over 50,000 I was a prison and an exile and so on You see you ask how it's possible to have been still so much terror first of all, there is Incredible poverty and so much difficulty and energy goes into every little thing that people need for everyday life secondly, there's a Horrible system of spying on one another which the communists have managed to develop. That's a refinement. That's a hypocrisy I see and that's something that's new in the police system. Oh, yes, there was there were people who denounced others and who Spied but not like it is now. Let me ask you are it once a Russian is put in the concentration camp. Is there any hope of release? Do they release to any other to come back home? Sometimes some get out after they come out They usually only allowed to live in certain places certain towns Most of them come out in such a fearful state that they have finished anyway They come out to die and very few do get out of Concentration camps really they aren't concentration camps. They're prison camps But then the whole of Russia is a prison camp practically anyway Mr.. Kripak and there's certain facts which to a lot of Americans Wouldn't seem to jive with this belief that the large majority of the Russian people are opposed to the regime for example, they fought very well against Germany the North Koreans the Chinese communists are fighting very well. They're not surrendering en masse to The Americans in Korea. They seem to have a very good morale and if the satellites have that good a morale It wouldn't be a good supposition that the Russian soldiers would have an even better morale Russians have always fought well. They've never been cowards. That's a trait of the Russian people But you also got to remember that a great many of the younger people who were born under communism They don't like the regime. They would welcome something different, but when it comes to fighting an enemy They'll fight for any kind of government They're always fight but during World War two an Enormous number of Russians went over and formed even a battalion in Germany to fight back against Russia They all hoped that the Germans were going to liberate them and if the Germans had behaved decently to the Russians They would have had a tremendous number of volunteers as it was there were nearly a million So you think if our propaganda were right and our treatment were right if we ever did it get involved in a war Why we would have wholesale desertions and there would be a quick Collapse of the regime there perhaps possibly yes I certainly think the propaganda when it reaches the Russians and a great deal of it does now Has an enormous effect and also if they knew what was going to happen to them for instance, I Don't know if you know this new word that's used not for deserters, but defectors Well now there were in 48 and 49 they used to come over to the American zone 50 60 a day now there are only two and the reason for that is that nothing special has been done for them They don't know what's going to happen to them if they do desert and come into the American zone Well, Francis, I'd like to ask you just a few questions about the nature of the underground and how we can make it more effective now when I read the Gorky and dusty F ski I got the impression that the Russians were a natural conspiratorial people that there was always a Large group that was against the government and militantly so now today. It is such a group exists in the Russian Not as a group because it's impossible for people to meet together and to talk to discuss anything You'd be either liquidated or in a prison camp if you could ever even thought of Writing a story about the terrible tempered mr. Stalin. Yes, you did Well, is there is there a potential underground there is and and as to ways in which we might encourage it Do you think that our propaganda is effective now not as effective as it might be first of all? There's a religious underground and that really does exist I think that there are Quite a few things to be done to step up propaganda What about the voice of America? I think it's effective all up to a point all the All the radio stations which are carrying news into Russia are effective Unquestionably they're reaching many people, but I do think that they might Perhaps liven up the stuff a little bit As a final question, I'd like to ask you princess Karpak and what do you think we could do now? To drive a wedge. What's the first step? We could take now to drive a wedge between the Kremlin and the Russian people. Well, I'm going to give you a peculiar answer I think that if the representatives of the Kremlin in this country were treated to a little social Ostracism instead of being invited to dinner parties if they were ridiculed a little and that went back on The radio I think that that might have quite a little effect And so you would say in summing up Princess you would say that there is a Potential underground and that properly encouraged it can be very hopeful for the Western world I think so I Think it can be the most hopeful thing in the world because it's probably the only way out of the war. Yes Well, thank you very much for being with us the editorial board for this edition of the lone gene chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Henry Haslett Our distinguished guest was Princess Alexandra Kropotkin The little black-mounted Magnifying glass that the watchmaker holds like a monocle in his eye is called a loop After years of observing watches of all kinds new and old The man with the loop becomes an excellent judge of watches and We're proud of the fine letters about long gene watches which come to us every day from long-established watchmakers a typical communication reads The quality of long gene watches is beyond compare As an experienced watchmaker The fine workmanship commands my admiration After years of observation of long genes and other watches I am convinced that no watch gives so much satisfaction as a long gene No loss so long Yes, indeed the man with the loop knows why long gene watches have won ten World's Fair Grand Prizes 28 gold medals and so many honors for accuracy in fields of precise timing Superlative quality through and through Makes long gene the world's most honored watch This is Frank Knight inviting you to join us again next week for the long gene Chronoscope a television journal of the important issues of the hour broadcast on behalf of long gene the world's most honored watch and Wittner distinguished companion to the world-honored long gene Sold and serviced by more than 4,000 leading jewelers from coast to coast Who proudly display the emblem? 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