 Hi everyone, my name is Jason Klein, I'm the Director of P20 Initiatives at Northern Illinois University, and we are very excited to be bringing you another episode of Amplifying Solutions, where we answer the questions of practitioners, of teachers and administrators from the field today with experts on those topics. We are extremely excited to be bringing to you two of the key leaders of leaders in the state of Illinois from the Illinois Association of School Administrators and the Illinois Principles Associations. Both associations are leaders nationally in the work they do. So I'm going to have them each introduce themselves. Courtney, will you go ahead and start us off? Sure. Thanks, Jason. I'm Courtney Rizal, the Associate Director of Professional Development for the Illinois Association of School Administrators, or IASA. I have started that job on July 1st, so this is fairly new to me. Prior to that, I served as a superintendent for seven years in the Chicago suburbs, and I've also been a middle school principal. I'm still recovering from that work. I'm not going to lie, right? We love middle school and served also as a high school English teacher and a middle school English teacher, so this is my 20-something year in education. I'm excited to be here with you today. Thank you. Sue? Yeah, thanks, Jason. Thank you for inviting me, and just a little bit about my background. I began my career as a high school business teacher in Wisconsin, and from there went into the Career College teaching arena. From there, I came back into K-12 public education as a suburban district technology director. From there, I moved into an assistant superintendent role for human resources where I worked with almost 30 principals and assistant principals on an annual basis, hired dozens of principals and hundreds, literally, of teachers, and then moved into a rural superintendency before coming to IPA as the deputy executive director for professional learning. And so I've been with IPA now just over three years, and again, really glad to be with you today. Glad to be with my colleague, Courtney. We have a lot of the same vision and ideas for what we want to see our support look like in the field. Well, and we're going to try and keep the middle school principalness of this tamp down with, you know, two of the three of us having that in our backgrounds. And so I've often said this year as we've encountered all the things we've encountered, you know, how was I able to get 800 students and 100 adults quiet just by raising my hands and the new puppy or this unique thing or the whatever thing that everybody's dealing with right now has felt so much more difficult. So with that said, let's go ahead and talk about those things because being a school administrator, like being a teacher is an incredibly complex job. There are all these decisions that are being made without you even realizing it at times, as well as as the decisions you have to make very thoughtfully, and with other people and so in a normal year if we would pretend we were rewinding to November of 2019. What would have been the number one tip that you would have each given to a new school administrator. So I'll, I'll jump in if you don't mind Jason on that. Our number one tip is, is typically building relationships with people, especially coming into a brand new situation many times people are coming in from outside of the district so they don't have that college base they don't have the school context the community context in some cases, the political context. And so it's about building relationships and beginning to build trust and respect, and also really to develop your perception of fairness with the folks that you're I would agree with that and I would say building relationships as well would be not only what we would say to new administrators in a normal year but also this year and just to piggyback on what Sue said, I like the idea of that coming from an outside organization. And I will. I think one of our greatest tips to administrators is when you come into a new organization. A lot of people don't care what you did before they care about what you're going to do in the new place so consistently saying things like well when I was in whatever district doesn't really serve a lot of new administrators well so just keeping in the context of, I'm in this new role. I'm here to learn and listen. I'm not going to be making those assumptions and I'll privately keep all my experience but my new focus is you and let's build a family professional family together. That's, that's great advice, and it's, it's advice that that I've certainly heard given that I've probably given myself. It's advice that I both followed and not followed at times in my own experiences and as you get more experienced when you're not following it you you almost know it as it's happening this doesn't matter here so building relationships is so critical. What are based on the things I mean none of the three of us are currently in a building or in a district but we're working with people in those roles every single day. What are the things that you're hearing or seeing that have helped people be really successful at building relationships during these unique times I mean I think about in my past experience. This would have been working with a group of teachers and they're being food involved and sitting around the table and meeting and standing at the whiteboard and doing that kind of work in a physical space together in close proximity. That that's not happening today have you heard any great suggestions for how to really build relationships given the parameters we're working within today. Just just to throw one out Jason, I think you know going back to thinking back to and I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to violate Courtney's suggestion here for just a minute but going back to when I became a brand new superintendent in a community that I was not from. I think one of the things that I needed to do and made a point of doing was to meet individually with each person and despite the fact that we're in this Hollywood squares. You know, zoom world these days, I think it's still critical that people take the time to have an independent one on one conversation, whether it's through zoom or in a socially responsible distance way to really dig into who those who these individuals are. I need to know who Jason is, if I'm going to help to lead or produce a team that's effective I need to know Jason not only as an educator, but I need to know him as a person. The only way to do that and I believe to really show people that you're trying to be very sincere about it is spending that time investing that time, because we hope right over the long haul that this investment in time is going to pay off dividends. And that when you see people in the in the future or you know someone calls you and says this happened, you from a humanistic standpoint are connecting with that person it's not just about the business. I love the saying that people will forget what you did, but they won't forget how you made them feel. And I think that's really critical not only in working with our educational colleagues right now but in trying to build rapport with our families. And our stakeholders and even our children because ultimately we know down the road we're going to get through this, but reflecting back on how people helped us get through it is almost more important than how how well we did on an assessment for example. I agree with Sue and I will tell you I'll never forget when I was a superintendent. We visited classrooms and building principles all the time and I remember seeing a math teacher in the parking lot. And I said hey, I just want to let you know I was so impressed with what I saw today. The next day she came in to the office and said do you have a second. She got really emotional and she said I've worked here for X amount of years no one's told me that they loved what they saw in my classroom and I thought to myself. Shame on us in our profession that we take for granted every day. I love what Sue is saying because sending a blanket email of congratulations or thanks is one thing. Really personalizing the work that we do as leaders makes all the difference a handwritten note to someone and really the sense of being genuine and I think new administrators need to understand that people see through ego. They see through the talk. But if you can really make a connection with someone at a genuine level, like I'll give you an example. Sue and I, we know each other professionally, and she's like, I want to see L my daughter in her Halloween costume. I remember thinking I got to send this to her because it mattered to me that she cared enough to ask about my daughter. So that type of thing I think is really where the foundational pieces begin and if people spent some time like Sue said on that we would we would really transform organizations at at the ground level easily. So much in what you've just said and people are people need that right now, more, more than ever I mean, I think about particularly some of the, some of the teacher friends right and colleagues former colleagues, especially some of the former colleagues who you see a text or phone call, you know, this is not good right if I'm if I'm hearing from this person right now it's probably something's gone, gone wrong and that's that's unfortunate and they need to be hearing those things from the people that I'm with on a regular basis so one of the things that I know both of you have spent a lot of time thinking about and talking about even and certainly doing but is for the, this is a perfect example where the amount of pressure the amount of what we're from our school administrators is extraordinary right there, they need to be giving and giving and giving and giving. What advice that's really really actionable do you have for an administrator to make sure that they, they are taking care of themselves in a way that it still allows them to get their job done and allows them to be whole in such a way that they can give of themselves to other people, like you're talking about because that's always one of the challenges of the job and it's a challenge I think has gotten greater over the years and I mean we're in a period right now where I can't imagine there's ever been a time where it's been harder than it is right now to do that. Can I jump in on this one first Sue? Sure. So, and the reason is because we've been doing an academy about bringing your why back to you and really it's kind of a let's look in the mirror and see what where are we at from a leadership perspective. One of the things from a tangible perspective Jason that I think that we have to do is that I have never asked a school or district leader to name three of their core values that they don't say family. I've never, ever, ever asked that they don't say family, and it's, you know, usually faith family, and, you know, whatever the third one might be. Family is always a part of it. We encourage people to go back. Why don't you go ask your family what they think your core value values are, because I think a lot of us in the field are giving everything to everybody else and we're not taking care of ourselves and like I go back to what my mom's said, if you're not healthy you can't take care of those around you. We're conditioned I think as leaders and administrators to be everything to everybody, and we're not taking care of ourselves so if you really are going to say families of core value, you should go and ask your family do you think families of core value I'll tell you when I was a superintendent, my five year old would not have said that. Working was my core value and it wouldn't have been language but that's what came home on a Mother's Day thing right so that's the fact. And I got two signs for two brand new administrators when I was a superintendent new principles that said, the people in this house, love you, and I had them put it at their garage when they walked through that door because I could already see. They were convinced in the work that they were forgetting about why they did the work in the first place and it was their own personal family so we're really passionate about this at ISA and IPA as well. And I know Sue does incredible work in this particular area but that's just something tangible that I think we need to be doing right now as leaders. I have to tell Courtney so what what she just talked about with the signs in the garage so that I think we've both lifted that from Jim Brigette over the years. So he has an acronym Pilly people inside love you and it is something that's very actionable and I actually even though I to grown children that are not in education. I created one for them as well because we all carry the weight of our jobs home. And who do we tend to take our frustrations out on it's the people that really can't revolt against us. So really, I love what Courtney said about keeping family first because I you know I've been working, some would say a workaholic my entire life, many years, and, you know, to go back and think about doing a better job of balancing. I'm doing a better job of balancing now just because I'm forcing myself to, but I think that this pandemic has really brought that to the forefront for all of us. Because you know what, listen Jason, there are administrators dropping like flies, it's, it's a reality, there are people quitting their jobs because the stress is getting to them. And you know, I know for us at IPA and I know Courtney and the and the folks that I say, we want to try to help these people stay off the ledge. There are, talk about the political context having a never before strong hold on these individuals already worried about doing a good job and serving their kids and now dealing with the the fallout if you will from the community, whether it's pro in school learning or remote learning or hybrid whatever it is. The administrators are the ones who are taking the brunt of that because there are countywide recommendations but ultimately it lays at the feet of the Board of Education and those administrators. So they've never had these kinds of personal attacks on them before when they're trying their human beings like you and I trying to make the best decision given the services. And it's also a never ending constant change. What you think is happening today may very well be something different next week. And how do we as human beings have the resilience to continue to get up every morning and not know what next week is going to look like. So I'm going to throw one book out that I really recommend for our new principles that we support. It's a book by Aguilar. It's called Onward Cultivating Emotional Resilience and Educators. It's Elena Aguilar. It's an amazing book and there's a workbook that goes along with it and it's really some very powerful tips about how to build your own resistance because right now leaders need to find ways of building their resilience. And the other thing I'm going to say and I know Courtney's going to agree with me on this is it's not only about building your resistance but it's about building your tribe. And what I mean about that is you have got to have people like you that you can fall back on when the going gets tough. You've got to have a group that you can cry with or laugh with or just vent with. Because if you have no one and you internalize all of that your mental and physical health will definitely suffer. So, you know, we spend a lot of time we put together these practical wisdom tip sheets that we send out to our principles. We spend a lot about wellness. A lot of our regions throughout the state are pushing wellness right now. Our own association has an internal wellness program that, you know, we've all decided to participate in because it's not that you and I know or don't know that we should exercise more or drink more water. But it's ramping it up a little bit by having a little bit of accountability. And, you know, one of the points we get for participating is simply that we've reflected on something positive that happened to us that day. And, you know, I think it's the simple survival tactics that we need to keep that emotional intelligence that emotional emotional resilience going because these are these are tough times they're tough for everybody. Let's be real. And I will tell you that we launched a mindfulness matters series that starts on Monday for our superintendents that's led by Dr Nancy Blair and master coach Sandy Brown and the reason is because like Sue said if we thought that the concept of leadership was isolated and lonely before. I can't tell you how many superintendents that I've talked to veteran first year it doesn't matter how many years in the field and they're like, I am flying solo and I miserable. We have superintendents that have received death threats we have superintendents that are on the front page of the newspaper for the decisions that they make. They've had successful relationships and boards of education before and everything's falling apart right now and, and it's never happened to them before so I think as associations that two of the things, the two associations represented here today, we are about taking care of our members. And this is a really, really tough time for everyone so I just wanted to at least put it out there that you know from either a principal standpoint or from a central office or superintendent standpoint that this is this is new to everyone and it's not easy. Right. Yeah, one of the one of the maybe concrete things and this is just building on specific things that you said the comment about you know having that group of people that you can laugh with and cry with is doing almost a daily reach out, whether it's a text or a phone call while you're driving to or from work to to one of those people in that group whether it's someone you currently work with or someone you've worked with in the past. One of the things that I found and I had this conversation last week with an administrator who said that when they're miserable, if they call to check and see if someone else is how they're doing, even if they are leaving a voicemail for that person. They actually find that they're feeling better, just by checking on someone else and knowing that the person on the other end like they know intuitively I guess in their heart and their mind, their gut, that person is in the same place that they are and so I think one of the things that we can do as administrators new or experienced and certainly as experienced administrators is help lift everybody up by kind of acknowledging that and you know not publicly second guessing someone else's decisions not assuming you know what all the politics are that that they're facing and their particular situation and just kind of trusting that they're they're trying to do what's best for students and teachers and staff members and their communities and supporting one another with that can probably help so those are great suggestions we're gonna we'll link in the Elena Aguilar book here as well that's a really great suggestion and if there are if there are resources that either the associations has that are available to people beyond their members, they or things that people who aren't currently members but can sign up to participate in, even if it's fee based. For example we have IPA members who want to become ISA members, you know as superintendents at some point, feel free to share those and we'll help put those out there as well these are fantastic suggestions. So one thing is in the midst of all these real feelings that everybody's dealing with and if they've been successful building relationships. So how do they, what suggestions do you have from your own experiences are from all the people the countless administrators you've worked with to help also. I don't think set it aside set those things aside is the right phrase I think that's probably actually the wrong phrase but make sure that they're able to also prioritizing get things done that need to that need to be gotten done and maybe some of our priorities from last year maybe shouldn't be priorities just because we do them every November, given the circumstances so what advice do you have to help people prioritize and then follow through on those priorities and getting certain things done with everything else going on around us. So, if you don't mind Courtney I'll go ahead and pop in. One of the things Jason and I want to take it back to what Courtney said earlier I think in terms of prioritizing because it is difficult you're a brand new administrator for example and, you know, our place in a traditional year is to have an entry plan to have a 100 day entry plan and to stick with that entry plan as a written guideline to make sure you're getting through those necessary pieces. And there's another great book by Doug Reeves I'll throw out their 100 day leaders. So in a in a normal year. That's a great resource but in this year, we really have to. We really have to figure out what the most important needs are what are our most important goals for meeting the needs of kids. Now and maybe that's social emotional support. Maybe that is helping teachers understand here are all the standards that I'm expected to teach in a normal year but how are we going to try to figure out what are the most important standards that we have to make sure that we're addressing. I think it's important that we identify those most essential goals and that everything else that comes to take our time is filtered through is this priority new priority. I'm trying to keep me meeting those initial goals that were set or is this going to be something that sucks my time away from delivering what I really essentially need to deliver. So PJ Kaposi is a superintendent in the state and he's written a book on time management. And he's got another one of our little practical wisdoms that we sent out to our members is about his philosophy of looking at time management and I'm going to I'm going to look down at my notes for just a minute because it's it's kind of catchy. So it's toss it tell it teach it and then the fourth T is today or tomorrow. And what he means by that is to look at something that's come your way and decide whether it's something you really need to do something with. And if it's not he says to toss it don't keep it there don't keep it in your mental space or even in your physical inbox space. If you can give it to somebody else and no without a doubt that you're not going to have to worry about it because that person has the capacity to take that on and do it, then tell it. If they don't have the capacity currently then teach it if it's someone you can teach that to while that is an investment in time initially, it may pay off greatly in the future if you can teach them and then tell them in the future. And then if not if it's something you really do have to deal with and certainly there are many of those instances as a leader. And then think about doing it as soon as possible, and and maybe even holding off until tomorrow and re re running that system through your head. You know, I think we get bogged down in reactionary things. You know, and it's hard you come in as a new administrator you're going to be proactive you have all these great ideas and then we get bogged down in the reality, and we find ourselves reacting to things that happen, or having those individuals say do you have a minute or I have a problem so I'm going to give you one other tip that I'm going to let Courtney fill you with lots of good tips to my other tip and this was my rule. I'm a superintendent and as a superintendent. Don't ever bring me a problem, unless you thought about a couple of potential solutions, because I don't want to be the one that has to reflect through the problem from the very beginning with you. I want you to bring me your problems but I also want you to suggest some possible solutions that can make us both owners in the situation or you maintain ownership. And I can just guide you to or guide you through what the better solution is. And if we allow people to constantly dump their problems at our feet, their problems start to take up our time. And so and that gives us away from right the goals that we've set and the goals that we need to keep in focus. So alright I'm done. I'll let Courtney add to that. So what else is there to say right now so she she every time she talks I'm like oh yeah I'm I'm reflecting on that here. Some things that I would say practical things. Number one, it needs to be in the calendar. If it's not in the calendar it's not happening. Number two, whether your hybrid remote fully in person, utilize those people around you if you've gotten assistant principal if you have secretaries. If a priority for you is getting in and visiting classrooms let's pretend it needs to be in the calendar or else it's not going to happen because you're always going to find other things to come into play. I would say this I think a great tip right now from either a leadership management. If you say you're going to do something follow through. Yeah, is great but walking it way way better. And the other thing is put a Google form out to your staff. If I'm a building principal every morning I'm starting with a morning email to every single staff member with a inspirational quote, and maybe a one question survey that I'm asking them something that I believe is a priority like Sue said. And then I'm responding back to people see that I think the teachers feel disconnected when principles aren't communicating back if you asked me something as a teacher, come back to it and have the follow through it's critically important. The final thing I would say is breathe a little bit of life and fun into our work whether you are a superintendent. Whether you're a superintendent, or you're a building administrator, put out what what's your favorite. So, anytime we do PD I put out what's your favorite song, what's your favorite quote, gather all the favorite quotes, load them into Adobe spark, and send it out as a quick two minute So, people personalize the work they want to feel connected. If I'm going to start a staff meeting, and I'm either a superintendent or I'm a building principal, I'm going to play that playlist. I'm going to do the 113 a playlist and people are like, Oh, whose song is this. Oh it's Jason song Jason. I didn't know you were a Beyonce fan. Get out of here. Like, we have to build personal connections right now. And so, I think from a leadership perspective, like, you have to find the balance of it is about management. It's about follow through in details but it's also visionary to that's not easy to do but if you can make people it's what what Sue said initially, if you can make people feel like you care, they will work for you. And so doing those little things and making people feel special. I don't think that's ever been more important than it is right now. Well, I want to thank Sue and Courtney because I think you've just given me about 18 additional blog posts to create that break down all of these things like Adobe sparks a great example. I'm sure there's going to be people watching this where like wait what's that don't worry we'll have a link in the blog post with some how to videos. It's real easy. It's fantastic. If you're lucky enough to work in a school district with the school communications person, they know it. You probably have teachers who know it, which that's okay, I would say if you've got a teacher knows it you're like hey I think you do this can you show me how to do this. That is there is nothing wrong with leading by learning I would throw out there and I think we'd all agree on that so with that that those were awesome really actionable ideas for balancing all of the different things we just talked about. I have one last question. So there has been a lot of talk from the beginning of this by people in all different kinds of roles and education, and and this has happened beyond education to it's happened with how we live and how we work, where we work about what can come out of this time period that might change things for the future so what I want to ask you is what changes. Would you want to emerge from our coven 19 period that that help improve learning for the long term and and then what tips would you give administrators today to start making those changes take root for that long term. Courtney I'll let you go first if you'd like. This, this is my hope, long term. I think that teachers are where it's at, I think they're incredible and I think doing less is more right now, and I hope that we continue to do that. Because I think we, if you're flipping into different modes, you can't do everything. So it's causing us to really say what is most important and do I know my daughter's in first grade and let me tell you I need her to know how to read. I might have my doctorate I was a middle school high school teacher I am heavily dependent as a mom that that first grade teacher even remotely is going to teach my daughter how to read. I'm going to stand up priorities and actually figuring out what this looks like matters the other piece I'm going to tell you. Obviously bridging the inequity gap has never been more important we've been able to do that it's not at the level that it needs to be at all, but we will continue to grow and be better and personalizing our work and getting to know our kids I remember as a building principle, having a staff meeting Do we really know our kids and teachers are like of course we know our kids I put up a kid's name that had been in the office and everybody could tell you everything about this kid with the exception of a social security number. I put up a kid that was graduating, she was quiet straight a student never had a disciplinary referral and we heard things like I had her in sixth grade. She's really nice no but what do you know about her, it was a big wake up call for us, we can no longer think we're going to teach groups, we need to teach individual kids and really personalize that work and I think at the superintendent level. We're seeing a lot of opportunity with that. I am a firm believer and maybe I'm just an optimist, but I'm going to continue to be along with Sue, we need to take what we've done best and do it even better moving forward and things that we're doing right now we should have been doing all along. And so, for me, I really am hopeful about what the future will bring. And if I'm a new administrator right now. I will tell you, we have, I know a first year building principle or names Kate Quasney she's in Lamont where I was superintendent. I have never seen a better principle than I see in her and she is in her first year. She is in her first year and she's killing it. She calls people's families and thanks their parents and tells the parent or the spouse what the teacher is doing, like, she's all over the place right. She's brand new so let's not assume that we have brand new administrators that can't do this work or that aren't ambitious enough and certainly let's not count out people who are in their last year, getting ready to retire and have never worked harder in their career. So let's take that bias out of here and really think about what are the things that we're doing really well and is a is getting ready to push out and have some conversations around. What are the things that we need to continue to do organizationally, systemically, and as superintendents, and how do we build on this momentum instead of being miserable about it. So I'll turn it over to Sue. One of the things Courtney you just said just was the number one on my list and that is dealing with the inequities that still exist. You know it's interesting because as a technology director so I began a my role as a suburban technology director in 1996. This was before the internet. I mean it's not before the internet was developed obviously but it was before schools were using the internet. And so it's been really interesting over the course of my career to see how to bring the internet in how to teach people how to use these tools, and the slow uptick that has been historically the case. And all of a sudden we're in March, and people are forced to learn these tools that would have taken 10 years to get to. But because of the need, it forced people to really bring their game. And here's the deal and I'm with Courtney on this I have always said teachers and teachers of course are the number one, you know, influencers of children's learning principles are number two I'm going to throw that in but but teachers are and I've always said teachers have the hardest job, but you know what I don't with rare exception there's no teacher that shows up and says I'm going to just do a mediocre job today. And in fact, we have seen unbelievable creativity and and and idea ideas coming out of teachers to try to help because they want to help. They are desperate to help. They're in a position where they've never been trained to deal with this, but yet they're doing it. And they're doing it, you know, to the greatest degree any of us could have ever hoped. And so I think that this teaches us that we do have this adaptability that we never really gave ourselves credit for. And and so but yet I talked with a superintendent colleague of mine just last week, and in southern Illinois, they don't have internet mean they don't have reliable internet connection. They don't have devices and in in these rural school districts. And so kids are really being left behind. And so we have to do better as a country in in after this pandemic, we have to see that that is not okay. That all kids deserve that because we will potentially see the impact of the inequalities that existed during this time for for a generation of kids. And so, you know, I think that's my message in and secondarily, I have always felt this way and I feel this way even more today and that is the importance of educators has never been more significant. People can't do anything without educators. And the fact that educators are doing their best to bring their game during this time is just unbelievable and I'm with you Courtney. You know, some of these new leaders I'm so inspired by them it's unbelievable. And part of me says they don't know any different Jason. This is their, this is their reality. And so, you know, educators have so much creativity generally speaking anyway, and so they just bring this creativity in this solution this problem solving skill to this situation. And they're doing great. I mean if we can keep them emotionally supported. They've got ideas that are never going to stop. And I laugh and I say oh my gosh how many of these leaders are going to write books, really truly in the next five to 10 years about how they made it through these difficult times. And finally I'm going to go back to just take you in a different direction to something else Courtney said and that is about individuality of instruction, because I've seen it. I have a granddaughter in kindergarten remote learning. And so I've seen it myself the ability to individualize instruction for these kids and I think gosh when I was a superintendent. The kids that were home home instruction and you know home learning or hospitalized. If only they had the ability, like the kids do right now of participating fully in a class even though they're not physically present. It's just that that is an answer to so many parents prayers and really an answer to teachers who are trying to teach kids and yet will be accountable for their performance without them being able to be in the classroom. So I see at the end of this when everything gets dusted off and polished up. I see that there's new ways of engaging kids that we've never experienced before and so I'm hopeful that we'll take advantage of that. I'm so I'm a little awestruck right now. Thank you to everybody watching this all three of us and the people we work with and for we're here to support you during this time and to make the ideas that you have come to life and so please let us know how we can do that. And to to sue and to Courtney I want to thank you both for your expertise you know I feel kindred spirits with Sue and I both having that background as the tech directors and Courtney and I as middle school principals which you know Courtney do not try and recover from it just enjoy it it is part of who you are and and I can tell you with two high schoolers learning above me is as your own kids get older. They will hate the fact more and more that you were a middle school principal and you will enjoy it more and more every step of the way. So but but I you have personally both you this this time that we've been able to record this, which was not for me but it has certainly filled my bucket. I'm ready to go out and break down some walls and make more equity happen and make better learning and deeper learning happen for more kids so I hope people watching you've gotten some of that and that you've gotten some real tips and again, let us know what you need and we're here for you. Sue Courtney, thank you both so much for for your time today and for sharing your insights and expertise. Thank you Jason so very much for inviting me. I love being with my colleague Courtney anywhere but I sure love talking about obviously some of these topics I'm pretty passionate about so thank you for giving ear to some of my thoughts. Thanks Jason. Thank you both. We'll continue to post more episodes on YouTube you can see those here and we want to thank you all for watching today. Wish you the very best stay well and again, let us know what you need. Thanks again.