 Good morning. My name is Nancy Lindborg. I'm the president of the US Institute of Peace. Delighted to welcome everybody this morning for our fifth in a series of bipartisan congressional dialogues. We launched this series earlier this year to provide a platform for members of Congress who are working from opposite sides of the aisle to advance common interests. And USIP, in fact, was founded by Congress in 1984 as a nonpartisan federal independent institute dedicated to reducing violent conflict around the world. Sorry. So I'm honored to have with us today two leading congressional voices. No, I have some water on the floor. Both of whom are dedicated to advancing peace and security around the world, Chairman Ed Royce from California and Senator Chris Coons from Delaware. Thank you both for joining us this morning. Chairman Royce has served as chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee for more than five years, previously chair of the African subcommittee. Senator Coons serves on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and previously chair of the African subcommittee. Both of our speakers are at the forefront of efforts today in Congress to tackle some of the most pressing security challenges facing the US. And they have long dedicated engagement in Africa. Both of them have a wealth of experience, of knowledge, and they've seen these problems up close. These are not our own chair experts. Chairman Royce recently traveled to Mozambique, Botswana, and Angola to raise the profile of critical issues, such as conservation and wildlife tracking. Trafficking and Senator Coons has been recently to Zimbabwe, South Africa, Niger, and Burkina Faso. So these guys have really fat passports. And they know the issues. They know the leaders inside and out. Both are also wonderful partners. And we were pleased to co-sponsor with Senator Coons last year, an event that featured Librarian President Ellen Johnson-Serly, Chairman Royce, joined us for that as well to discuss those elections. So we're very grateful that they're here today to share their views on how to resolve an issue that is fueling conflict in many African nations, combating wildlife poaching and trafficking. We're seeing that illegal wildlife poaching and trafficking has destabilized communities across the African continent. In the last decade, almost half of African's elephants have been killed for the ivory. And some experts are predicting that both elephants and rhinoceros will be extinct by 2013, which is terrible to consider. 2030, 2030. Illegal trade and protected wildlife is up to $7 to $10 billion. And we're seeing that this is the money that is getting into the hands of terrorist groups like El Shabaab and the Lord's Resistance Army. So these are the issues that are destabilizing, particularly fragile countries. This is where USIP focuses many of our efforts. And it's a particular concern as we work with partners in places like DR Congo to root out and prosecute economic and environmental crimes. So this morning, we have a chance to hear from the two leaders on this issue. They've championed this cause. And also today, with Chairman Royce's announcement that he will not seek re-election this fall, hopefully we'll have a chance to hear some of his reflections on 26 years of service in the House of Representatives championing these kinds of causes. Before we begin, I want to invite you to join us on Twitter at USIP and join in today's conversation with the hashtag bipartisan USIP. I encourage you to check out our podcast network, usip.org backslash podcast. It will feature this conversation, as well as other leading voices on conflict prevention and national security. So with that, please join me in welcoming to the stage Chairman Royce and Senator Coons. Chairman Royce, I'd like to invite you to get us started with a few comments. Well, one observation I would make, Nancy, is that we have, I think, an opportunity to have a dialogue here today about what NGOs, what private citizens, what private industry and the government can jointly do in order to try to salvage a situation which is not sustainable. We have a development going on today in which wildlife trafficking is a $10 billion a year business. And the consequences of that, along with development that is not sustainable, is putting at risk the entire continent of Africa with respect to the biodiversity that's on that continent. It's putting at risk the opportunity for future generations of Africans and Americans to enjoy what is one of the most impressive consequences of life on this planet. If you think about elephants and cheetos and cheetos and black rhino, the concept that these species could be removed from the planet are being removed from the planet as we speak. And one of the reasons that Senator Coons is co-sponsor on the Senate side with the DELTA Act and what we're doing with the BILD Act and why we're pushing this in the House is to do something to get the US more engaged immediately. In terms of the Ocavango DELTA, that's the issue that we're talking about today because that is where most of the elephants and black rhino still kindergate there in West Africa. We have a water source. Water knows no national borders, but we have a source of the river that comes down from Angola into Namibia and into Botswana, Zambia. But that river will be diverted if we allow humans to come in and develop that region. And once the water is diverted, the animal life will exist for a while in a desert until it vanishes because that is the only thing that flooding of the Ocavango DELTA every year into the Serengeti or excuse me, into the basin is the only thing that keeps those species alive. So that's a quick overview. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Senator Coons. Good morning, Nancy. Thank you to USIP for hosting bipartisan dialogues. One of the reasons I wanted to be here was both because Nancy Lindborg and USIP are hosting and because it's a chance to once again share a stage with my friend and colleague Chairman Royce. Chairman Royce and Chairman Corker are the reasons that we've gotten so much good work done on foreign affairs and foreign relations. And we just finished traveling together the three of us, along with another senator, two more senators. We were in Helsinki 10 days ago. We had a remarkable trip to Sweden, Denmark, Latvia, and Finland to engage with our northern European security partners. And one of the things that came clearly to me out of that recent trip was just how valuable Chairman Royce has been in being a clear-eyed and positive and constructive voice. Today, we're going to focus on Africa and on wildlife conservation. But I just wanted to start by saying thank you, Ed, for being a remarkable leader in Congress. He's a real Republican. We disagree on some stuff. But I've got to tell you, virtually every time he's had a great idea, it comes over to the Senate. And we say, yeah, it's a really great idea. Let's get this thing done. Or I've run into a roadblock or an issue or a challenge. I call him directly. He's accessible. He's responsive. He's engaging. That is just in short supply in Congress today. And I am so grateful for what he's done. And Nancy is someone I've known since her work at USAID and in her time at Mercy Corps, where she made an enormous difference around the world. And then in USAID, during a number of crises, from Ebola to the Horn of Africa to a whole range of issues in the Sahel, she's been a remarkable leader. So I'm grateful for what you do here at USIP. Like Chairman Royce, I'm someone who has had the opportunity on the ground to see the consequences of wildlife trafficking and its impact on human communities, as well as on wildlife. I'll never forget a conversation I had now many years ago with an African leader who basically said, who the hell are you? To come over here and lecture us about preserving our beautiful, iconic wildlife when your country's already developed and you've already diverted your rivers. You've already cut down your great forests. You've already plowed up your plains. I have people who are hungry and who need jobs and who need healthcare and who need a future. And that has echoed in the back of my mind for quite some time. We have to find a way that human development on a continent with some of the fastest-growing human population on Earth can work in harmony with conservation of landscapes, of wildlife, of biodiversity. If they are seen as a zero-sum game, people will win because in the end, the pressures on governments, the pressures on community leaders are to meet the needs of families and children rather than protecting iconic wildlife. And in a region of the world where governance and rule of law are so uneven or uncertain and where the pull of the $7 to $10 billion market in wildlife products around the world, but particularly in Asia, is so strong, we will not win unless there is a strategy, and I think there is, a defensible, articulable strategy that links up human development with wildlife conservation. I've had the joy and the honor of working following Chairman Royce's leadership on so many pieces of legislation, from a go over reauthorization extension to the Electrify Africa Act, from foreign assistance modernization to the Global Food Security Act. I mean, it's striking if you had an actual list of how many bills Chairman Royce has led that have had a meaningful impact on the people of the continent of Africa. It's remarkable. Working together on fighting wildlife trafficking and now working together on the Delta Act is a great opportunity, a real blessing and a wonderful experience. So thanks for a chance to be with you and to have a conversation about your real leadership. And I think, Chris, one of the attributes that you speak about there, or one of the attitudes that you hear from African leaders can in fact be shaped by their experiences, their engagement, the existence of Yellowstone gives us a great opportunity because with the ICCF, with the International Conservation Caucus that we have with the Foundation, we have brought over some of these heads of state. And after we got the signature on the Congo Basin Forest Partnership Act in order to set up a park system across Africa, the response when they viewed Yellowstone was, well, this is impressive that Teddy Roosevelt did this. This was your first park and it wasn't until the late 1800s that you did it. This was your first park and there's really nothing here except Bison that really impressed us. And this is the only place you have them and we say, well, yes, we have them here because if Teddy Roosevelt hadn't done this by then they'd be gone. They'd be gone. We had killed everything else until this point except the Bison. And they say, you know, that's nothing. I remember these words. That is nothing compared to what we have on our continent. The diversity we have compared to this and people come from all over the world here. Yes, this is a conservation model which is sustainable for the communities here because we do draw people from all over the globe to see Yellowstone. Well, imagine what that will mean to our people. Exactly. But unless we're connecting this explanation and showing that Roosevelt had this vision and explaining to these heads of state that in this respect they're like Teddy Roosevelt except they have a tremendous amount more to conserve in terms of what is on the continent of Africa. And I think that getting the buy-in not just from the elected leadership not just from the heads of state but the parliamentarians where now we're working with our conservation caucuses in Africa and by the way in Latin America and Europe and we're having these exchanges on the continent are bringing in a new generation of younger African leaders. The meetings that we had when we were in Botswana and Angola including with the tribal leaders there's a million people there for example in the Okevango whose way of life will disappear if we allow the traffickers to continue in their efforts there to remove these species. We, it's on their behalf that we are also engaged but if we can explain how smart development works with conservation to create an environment that's gonna be sustainable for the future that is something that can connect for those communities but we need structures to do it and the Delta Act is intended to provide that structure. And you raise an interesting point in terms of what is most persuasive with the key leaders on the continent and that's a great example. Does that in fact counter the persuasion of seven to 10 billion dollars? Is that, what do you find most persuasive? Well, I think Chris identified the human reaction of wanting to see you know where's show me the money, where's the money? And of course, you know, China, Beijing comes in and says we can divert these rivers we can dam these rivers. We can put this all to agricultural use and here's cash on the barrel head. What we're selling or explaining is a little more complicated but we're explaining that the beneficiaries will be future generations of Africans as well as people worldwide who will be able to experience the unique setting which otherwise will be removed from the planet and secondarily that the benefits of Beijing diverting that river are only going to be temporary. The sustainable efforts that instead can offer promise for a future which brings tourism, which brings investment from all over the world with an intent of you know having people be part of this unique experience which exists there alone in the Okavango. I mean this is a different model. It's and I think for civil society in much of the world there is some measure of disappointment in terms of what they've seen with respect to these big projects that are not sustainable for the long term and have led you know once you clear cut the timber and with open pit mines remove the minerals and poached all the animals as you put the roads into do all of that once those resources are gone the aftermath of it is not a pretty sight nor is it one that's gonna help those populations. So I think these impulses compete but this is why the leadership of NGOs in the United States this is why USAID is so important. This is why your work with USIP is so important. I think that these all contribute to a sustainable future for humans. Can I back us up just for one minute? I'd love to ask both of you how you found your way to this partnership which is both bipartisan and also across the house and the Senate. How you found your way to this partnership and to this issue? Well, Ed's the leader. I'm the follower on this. He's more a senior in his career in public service in the house. I was elected to the Senate in 2010. I, as some of you know, spent time in East Africa as a college student in 1984 and in South Africa in 1987. The time I was elected that was decades earlier. I thought of myself as having very narrow, very limited, very superficial experience in Africa. And a guy named Russ Feingold, former senator who was the outgoing former chairman of the Africa subcommittee. I got seated right after the election because mine was a very special election in 2010. And so Russ and I overlapped for about six weeks and he asked me to come sit down with him. And he pushed me to agree to be the chairman of the African subcommittee which I didn't even realize was a possibility. And he said, you're an expert in Africa. And I said, what are you talking about? And he said, well, don't you speak some Swahili? I said, Nimi Salzote, I've forgotten everything. And he said, well, didn't you write a book on South Africa? And I said, well, yeah, that was like 25 years ago. He says, do you know all of the countries and their capitals? I said, doesn't everybody? I said, and their exports and their major religions. And he looks at me and he says, son, you're gonna realize something here pretty quickly. Most senators don't realize that Africa is made up of countries. He said, the number who are engaged are sadly too few, but here's the positive. The senators that are engaged in Africa are wonderfully bipartisan, are deeply committed, and are a terrific group to work with. And it's not something that 70 senators have an opinion on and where you have to wait 10 years to have an impact. You literally can have an impact within your first six months. And I was puzzled by that, I assumed it was obviously untrue, but within six months of taking over the chairmanship of the Africa subcommittee, I was stunned at how there are real Africanists in the room. I continue to admit that I am barely minimally knowledgeable. I've now been to 29 countries on the continent, quite a few of them two or three times, but in these very brief congressional trips. On one of my earliest trips to the continent, I had a long layover in an airport lounge. I think it was in Heathrow, but I may be wrong. And Chairman Royce and a group of his folks were on their way back. And we ended up spending an hour talking, and I came away going, here's someone who really understands the continent, its challenges, and how to craft and move meaningful legislation. How to actually do the legislative work. It's great to be an advocate and to be passionate and say someone should do something about this. It's a whole nother deal to actually write a bill. Get a hearing, get a markup, and then get it through the house, and then get it through the Senate, and then get it into law. And Chairman Royce was a wonderful guide in how to follow that path. So that's how we, that's my recollection about it. That is how we first met. Heathrow, Heathrow Airport. Heathrow. And I mean, I think that's happened literally several times. I have the impression that like, I was on my way to Liberia during Ebola and I ran into him as he just finished a hearing and we had a long conversation about CDC and its role too, but we have traveled together on few occasions. We have legislated together on many. And that's been a great partnership. And how did you find your way to this issue? I was elected in 92, and the Africa Subcommittee was one of my early interests and ended up chairing that committee. Went to see Johnny Carson here in the front row when he was ambassador to Zimbabwe at the time. And in that particular trip, we were in Angola, we were in Congo, Zimbabwe, South Africa, and advancing some concepts that later would become the foundation for the Congo Basin Forest Partnership. In 2002, we got that measure through for a national park system across seven different landscapes in Africa. And besides Johnny's help, I think Colin Powell deserves a fair measure of the credit for weighing in behind that legislation. But it was the interest in trying to create something permanent that would see to it that on the US side as well as the African side we kept our commitments that led to my thought that we needed a caucus. And originally it was a small caucus, myself and John Tanner. Tom Udall, we signed Tom up, he was a good ally. And we built that as a bipartisan caucus. Today it's one of the larger caucuses. And I still stayed very involved in that effort. But for eight years I chaired that Africa subcommittee and then as I moved my way up through the house eventually became full committee chairman. And it gave me the opportunity over the years to bring sort of a unique perspective I think in how we could approach this in a bipartisan way and how Congress could be permanently engaged in a partnership with NGOs, with a private sector with the African NGO community as well. And with the Diplomatic Corps, the African Diplomatic Corps here on the Hill in order to try to jointly beyond the African Growth and Opportunity Act and other things like that, how we could sort of have a vision for US engagement on the continent which would be productive and which would be empowering for Africans. And I thank Johnny for, I thank the ambassador here for a lot of the work that he was engaged with along the way in West Africa, South Africa and eventually across all of sub-Saharan Africa with different initiatives which we're still trying to build on today with the Build Act. And thank you again, Senator, for your help on that. We're gonna get that done. When you look at the possibility of rhinoceros and elephants being extinct by 2030, which is a horrifying thought, what do you see as the greatest opportunity to interrupt that trajectory? And are you hopeful? I'm hopeful in this sense. I was the author of the End Well Life Trafficking Act and my first impulse in finding that China was trying to get ahead of the implementation of the act was one of great satisfaction because it meant that the campaign done by young Chinese and civil society in which they were sending out messaging all across China about the precarious nature of these species, it was having an impact all the way up to the Chinese Polypure. There was a desire throughout Chinese society to do something about reversing the demand that existed there for ivory in the sense of status. And it became so pronounced that the Chinese took the steps of going in and closing down, shuttering all the ivory carving factories and ivory stores across China. And we gave them great credit for their leadership on this and we should be mindful. The demand we know people, I'm sure every one of you have been in an office or somewhere where you've seen an American who has carved ivory that he's brought back from some part of the world or for those of you who know Europeans, we have the same problem. This is a universal problem of reaching and shaming and exposing a process which, yes, benefits the El Shibab, benefits the Lord's Resistance Army if we wonder about where these terrorist groups get their funding, but it's driven partly by the demand of our friends and neighbors. And the fact that China could get out ahead of this means, A, that we should think longer and harder about how to get these narratives into China and social media, how to help young Chinese who want to be part of bringing conservation efforts to China, helping them to be successful, but secondarily, about our own responsibility in all of this. And so I think this is something we can sit back for a minute and learn from. How else can we use this model of shaming? We've used it effectively now on human trafficking. We've used it effectively on injury, helping to end the ivory trade. How else can we use this to push the next generation in responsible ways? And how can we combine with the NGO community just as this was done in China? I mean, this is partly a grassroots thing among young Chinese, many of them out of Hong Kong who elicited or created this enthusiasm all across Southeast Asia. We've got a lot of work to do. No doubt about that, but we're on to something. Are we seeing a drop in demand? Yes, you are. You've seen a drop in demand, but at the same time, you're seeing an increase in firepower on behalf of Al Shabaab and groups like this. And so part of the answer, we've worked with the park rangers. It's an inspiring thing to see American park rangers go to Africa in order to share their practices with park rangers who know far better how to track, far better about the animals they're trying to protect, are the bravest on the planet in terms of trying to protect these herds. But at the same time, do not have that firepower. And part of what we're trying to do is get them in a position, get the park rangers across Africa in a position. And in some of these parks, you'll find you're dealing with third generation park rangers, but you're also dealing with sons and daughters who've lost their fathers to this fight because the terrorists and the poachers have taken them out. And so giving them the training in how to use, how to combine with our efforts to use satellite technology to follow the poachers. Trying to take out the Lord's Resistance Army, Georgia, which is something that we worked on in order to try to bring US special forces in with their, they're not involved in the fight, but they're involved in the tracking efforts using some of our capabilities, applying this to the effort. So let's unpack that a little bit, Senator Coons, how does that train of financing work, that it goes from poachers into the hands of terrorists? And what are the best ways to interrupt that? So first, one of the most important advances in the last few years is better understanding that. We had made dramatic progress in terms of conservation, conservation systems, wildlife protection, improving rule of law across a number of years, but in the last decade, it's sharply reversed. And that's partly, as Chairman Roy says, because of an increase in firepower, what that means is there are complex networks of trafficking that move illicit product, whether it's drugs, minerals, wildlife product, or people. And these transnational networks don't particularly care, whether what they're moving is heroin or rhino horn, whether it's ammunition and weapons, or it's people being sold into sexual slavery. They don't really care how they're making their money, and they have gotten more and more sophisticated. And they have penetrated and undermined rule of law. They've even gotten so far as to have diplomatic pouches used at times to move wildlife product. And we all know the corrosive impact of the money that drug trafficking can present. There's communities all over the United States where there are killings every day and where there is drug use every day as we see illicit drugs flood into our country. And we've dedicated billions and billions of dollars to interdiction and prevention. So this isn't something that happens in remote far off places. It affects almost literally every human community on the planet. The large scale movement of illicit destructive things. Many of us are familiar with what happened to Eastern Congo with the mining of very needed, very precious, but very disruptive special minerals and metals that are required for advanced electronics, which had a profoundly destabilizing impact on the DRC. So first, figuring out who's moving what from remote places where either wildlife is killed, things are mined, heroin or cocaine is processed. Figuring out the process by which those things are gathered and then connected to transnational networks and then moved took us a while. Investing in the training abilities of the Fish and Wildlife Service on the ground to help park rangers to strengthen the farthest out in the field protection for wildlife. For example, is a relatively recent, significant partnership that's making a big difference. Engaging the human communities around dedicated parks so that they see benefit to them and their children for the wildlife staying rather than seeing a benefit from poaching it has been a big change in strategy. Greg Carrett, Gorongosa National Park in Mozambique has really moved from an initial strategy that was all about wildlife conservation to one that is about human development as a means towards promoting wildlife conservation and he's gotten the president of Mozambique to see this as a workable strategy. Howard Buffett with Varunga Park in Rwanda has helped an iconic leader there in Kagame see that as a strategy which now other leaders are hearing. But the challenge to your point, China has made important significant moves in terms of the ivory markets that there remains lots of demand in the United States throughout Southeast Asia. We have not closed down all ivory markets. It is difficult to distinguish between legacy ivory and just killed ivory and we are investing money as a country in strengthening and making more sophisticated those forensic tools. One of the other things we have to do is strengthen rule of law and prosecutions. In East Africa they've relatively recently had one of the first successful significant prosecutions of a kingpin who was responsible for moving a lot of illicit ivory. If you've got weakened courts, weakened law enforcement, weakened park ranger systems and people in desperate need and something that is worth more per pound than gold or heroin, you're gonna see elephants and you're gonna see rhinoceroses poached and killed. So there's a whole series of things that have to happen to reduce and shut down demand to make it harder to move this product and encourage these transnational networks to move to other products, to prosecute those who are actually moving wildlife illicit wildlife products and then to strengthen the ability of communities on the ground to respect and value what is left of creation in their part of the world given what we've done with creation in our part of the world. And so we've invested a fair amount, there was about 150 million a year across several programs going into these partnerships both domestically and transnationally. That's a lot less than 10 billion and we've got a lot of countries that need encouragement, support, training and reinforcement, but if you see even once the impact on wildlife, on the communities around it, on the legal and political systems in countries where wildlife trafficking is roaring along, it's stunning. And we do have a once in a lifetime chance to change the trajectory here and to improve it. And as you cited in your opening remarks, time is running out for us to save some of the most iconic wildlife on earth and the consequences aren't just to elephants and rhinoceri, it's things most Americans haven't even heard of like pangolins that are being hunted to extinction as well. And the biodiversity that as a consequence is harmed by the destruction of whole species as lasting consequences. You quite rightly note that these issues are all connected and that the threat of the wildlife trafficking is the highest in the most fragile of states where there is a lack of systems and an inability to prosecute or secure borders with rampant corruption. Given the interrelationship of these problems, does that suggest that we need to think differently about some of our larger assistance programs to change some of the focus and the ways things connect together programmatically? I'm in the last stages of drafting a bill with a Republican colleague in the Senate to require a fragile state strategy. Senator Graham, who's the chairman of the State Foreign Ops Appropriations Subcommittee is passionate about directing more of our assistance to fragile states. I'll pick one region in the Sahel. You've got five countries in a row that are significantly impacted by terrorism, by poor governance, by climate change, by conflict between pastoralists and agriculturalists. There's a whole lot going on. And Niger and Burkina Faso are two of these five. We have a military strategy to invest in the defense and security capabilities of the G5. It's got to be married with a development and democracy and diplomacy strategy. And so what I'm hoping to do is to hammer out a bill that requires an intentional strategy for how to deal with fragile states, set metrics and markers, come up with goals and objectives, and be clear about ways in which fragile states have big and costly consequences, not just humanitarian consequences, although they have that as well, migration consequences, security consequences. It is much more difficult and costly to take a country like Central African Republic and put it back together after it's been completely destroyed as a nation than it is to prevent that from happening. And the wildlife consequences of something like car spill into a several country region, as we all know all too well. Senator Coons, I know you have a schedule that has upended itself. Changed just a little bit. I want to just, if you want to make any closing comments, and then Chairman Rice, I know we'll be able to keep you here, but we want to thank you for joining us. Thank you, two thanks. Chairman Rice has referenced the Build Act. This is something we've worked together on for a year and a half to get hearings, to get markup, to get final language. It takes the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, or OPIC, and modernizes it, doubles it, gives it different strengths and capabilities and powers so that it really is up to the task of being a real partner with the development finance institutions of our European partners, our Asian partners, and what allow us to have the resources to do things that provide an alternative development path to what Chairman Rice referenced in terms of China's very big footprint, particularly in Africa, but a footprint that doesn't often come with the same priorities that we have in terms of environment and diversity, biodiversity, and conservation. I do think we can and should be hopeful, though, about our working partnership with China on wildlife trafficking. China is looking for ways that it can have a positive profile in the developing world, and this is one that I think we need to be really open to the positives of. Last, Chairman Rice is really leading on the Delta Act, and it's a great example of the kind of piece of legislation that will have a lasting impact. It's a part of the world that I bet you if we pulled the average person in our home states, relatively few, have heard of the Okavango Delta. So it's the kind of... Now they have. But I'll just, as a closing compliment, say that's the kind of labor of love that to have the full committee chairman of the House Foreign Affairs pulling for a bill that creates a multi-nation construct that will actually help preserve the Okavango Delta. I mean, that's a real gift of blessing and a real remarkable legacy. So thanks for the chance to follow along and to follow your lead and to work together to make a difference. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. And thank you for joining us, Senator Coons. Let's pick up on two things that Senator Coons just raised. The first is, do you want to give a quick lay down for the audience on the Delta Act? Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the Delta Act and also what we're going to need to get it through the process, which is important, Nancy. But the concept of creating a system where the countries, four countries in that region are all cooperating in order to maintain the ability of the water to flow down the Okavango River from Angola into the neighboring states to the south, it is crucial that we have the buy-in of those governments, but it's also crucial that we have the buy-in of the people in the region. It's important that we have the expertise of the NGO communities that can be part of the solution. I can tell you one of the encouraging things from my recent, our recent trip to Angola. And that is the young chairman, chairwoman, of their committee that oversees the environment is in fact herself a former park ranger. So she has a certain enthusiasm for this mission. The elephants which used to roam into southern Angola before the Civil War between Savimbi and DeSantos, between UNITA and the government that tore that country apart. The landmines that were up there have taken out so many species that in terms of the elephants themselves, they weren't even going back up there. They had passed on the information among the herd that these landmines would blow a foot off an elephant. Don't go back up to your traditional. And we have finally reached the point with demining that these species now are transmitting information that it's safe to go back to their original migration patterns. So just as in the Serengeti, the migration patterns were all through this four country region. And the concept here is to get the buy in, to get the plan in order to have a smart development. And what we're up against are competing ideas which would Nancy actually dam the rivers and use it for irrigation, dam the O'Vango rivers. Is that the Chinese-sponsored project? Well, but it's not just Chinese. I mean, yes, there are investors from China, the government from China that's pushing this, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. Our challenge here is a universal one. Just as we were talking about the challenge with these criminal syndicates, the biggest bust which we've made recently for U.S. Fish and Wildlife was in my area in Southern California, the biggest one we've had yet, taking down the ivory trade. They called it Operation Jungle Books. Jungle Book was the name of it on the books. But it's a reminder that we need a plan that is going to apply to everyone. And I would tell you again, one of the most encouraging things, and you've all seen it in the one campaign, one of the most encouraging things you see in Africa today is the growth of civil society. And the desire on the part of civil society being engaged in helping to bring these plans to fruition, to bring plans which will work long term for Africa. And so that's another area where the model that those of us who believe in democracy and the ability for human beings to constantly create a better future for the next generation is up against an authoritarian model. And as you're only to aware, there are enthusiasts of that authoritarian model that are consolidating power in states like China, where today she has consolidated a tremendous amount of control, but people like she and Putin are trying to sell on the world stage to other heads of state, for example, in Turkey. The concept that, hey, follow our path, not what the Europeans or what the United States or what Japan is telling you about a model where you get civil society and independent courts involved. You don't want any of that. That gets in the way of your ability to command and control. And so part of this also is sort of our vision for empowerment working with NGOs in Africa who have that same vision, who want to see a court system which is independent, judges who can make these decisions to apply the law, who want to see, you know, parliaments that are empowered. And this is why the ICCF, our International Conservation Caucus work is so important with these parliaments across Africa, because that is where, just as I say in Angola, that is where we find the enthusiasts like the former park ranger who brings her committee in to meet with us and says, here are your allies and our efforts to enforce the DELTAG. So this concern about the competition with China in Africa has really, really increased over the last few years. How are you seeing some of the long-term relationships and investments in conservation, in combating, poaching, holding up against this kind of competition? Well, I think... Some of the partnerships and alliances that you've seen built over the years. As I shared with you, I think Beijing's buy-in with the ban on ivory has been essential. That's the good news. I think the discouraging part of what could undermine our long-term evolution of a system that guarantees rights and will guarantee smart development for the future for Africa. I mean, that's what's at risk because the messaging, whenever I'm in Africa, I watch the Chinese television stations. And what they do message is the idea that you should have a command and control economy. Now in the United States or in Europe, economists call that idea the fatal conceit. The idea that you're going to command and control everything from the center. I mean, it gives rise to these big industrial projects and so forth, which on paper may look good, but lacking the engagement on the ground of local communities and a smart build-out of systems. You and I know from going to see the degradation in some of these areas, how there's a lack of calculus on the social costs of the equation, certainly with respect to pollution and with respect to the consequences of the type of mining and so forth. I think this is where we can be value-added and I think this is where USIP and USAID and our partners in Europe and Japan and around the world who share the values, the same democratic values that we have, the concept of rule of law, the concept of protection of the environment, sort of Teddy Roosevelt's vision of what motivates democracy in the United States, the idea of always being better and trying to have a vision for the next generation. All of that needs to combine here with greater engagement on the continent and that's why I appreciate the forum you've put together here today, Nancy. Well, Chairman Riss, you are leaving behind an extraordinary legacy and a decades-long commitment to these issues and your leadership has mattered tremendously. I guess one is looking back, where do you see, what are you most proud of and how do we collectively maintain some of the extraordinary progress that you've helped push forward? Well, there's a lot of work on the continent that I think was important. Frankly, from the economic perspective, I think it could go on. In terms of health, I think PEPFAR. I mean, there's a lot of work that we have done that has laid a foundation of the African Growth and Opportunity Act allows products from across Africa duty-free access into our markets. Tripled trade with Africa, but it was dependent also on pushing the idea of independent courts, independent judges evolving towards more and more democracy and a buy-in by these governments across Africa to be part of this. Coincidentally, the Europeans applied the same principles and I must say it's very encouraging that they were willing to also push for opening markets in Africa because this allowed exports from Africa to come into the European markets. I think there's just a tremendous amount of work on every front to be done. I'm proud of the work that we have done. I think it was essential that it be done in a bipartisan way. I think it's very important in the future that we adopt an attitude on the Foreign Affairs Committee that we must speak with one voice. And I think it's important that we continue what I've done to try to change the culture of the committee in the sense that we have to treat each other in the way that Thomas Jefferson, when he wrote the rules for the Senate, originally intended for members to conduct and transact. We need to split the time equally. We need to have the members travel together because if you're sitting next to somebody from a different political party for 14 hours as you're flying and frying a glass across the Atlantic to Africa, you're gonna learn something about their viewpoint and you're gonna start listening. And the most important aspect of all of this is to listen and not just to our colleagues. Listen to the parliamentarians from Africa and around the world, learn from them as well, understand their unique perspectives. As Chris was saying earlier, they have a certain vantage point on this, but when we can share our experiences, when we can take their delegation of park rangers and heads of state out to Yellowstone, when they can contemplate for a little bit how much we lost before we got a handle on this, a little over 100 years ago, and when they contemplate how much they have preserved there to conserve for future generations, I think all of this can work for the benefit of the future. So you've mentioned several times in your comments the power and the importance of civil society both here and in Africa. Is this something that you've seen change and evolve over your time in Congress? Well, I've just seen not just the one campaign but across Africa I've seen the impact reporters are having, and we have programs, of course, now in which we try to empower these journalists, these reporters, and try to give them the ability. One of the things that I used to talk with President Clinton about, and which I still hope we can do, is a concept of empowerment in, we've never done this, effectively. Think of the impact it could have. But if we had platforms on social media, on radio, on television, just as we do Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, right? If we had platforms like that for civil society, think for a minute, if Ellen Johnson Sirleaf in her first campaign, which she lost against Charles Taylor, had even the ability to get up on the air on radio or television, he dominated all of that. Charles Taylor dominated all of that, no wonder. We probably, as close as the election was, we probably would not have seen the devastation, not just of the Liberian Civil War, but what happened in Sierra Leone. We're just back from Sierra Leone. They're still building back from the consequences of all of that. A little bit of, think through, think through where we could have the most impact on empowerment for civil society. Because just remember this, it's not a vacuum. Putin's agents and the Chinese government are selling a very different concept. It's one without a free press. It's one without rule of law. It's one where civil society has no power. We're selling the antithesis of that. Let's figure out how we can do a better job of helping our allies on the ground over there, because they're the ones taking the risks, right? They're the ones putting their lives on the line. I can tell you, in Nigeria, Ambassador Carson will appreciate that. When you get a call from General Obasanjo, who says the dictator just passed away, I got my training in Fort Benning, Georgia. And the one thing I know, the other generals want me to head this government. The one thing I know is this government should be under a constitution. I want to have an election here. I want election observers to come in here. I want Colin Powell and Jimmy Carter and you, Chairman, and Don Paine. I want you on the ground so that we can have an election, and then I want to pass the control off to a civilian government. And when the guy who was elected was a former prisoner, political prisoner, held in prison by the former dictator, you get a certain feeling that, yes, our values, and by the way, the Europeans played a role in this too. They were election observers too. The IRI and NDI were there. Sometimes I think we underestimate when we're true to our values and we step in to assist those who want to bring about empowerment. We can have an enormous change or effect that brings about that change. At the same time, Northern Nigeria, Ambassador Carson, I remember a governor from Northern Nigeria telling me something should be done about this, Mr. Royce, because I grew up in Moscow. I got an education there, how to read and write, but there's something new across the street. And it is a very different education than the one I received, and it's not indigenous. It's not my indigenous Islam. It is a foreign concept, and they're teaching jihad. It's something should be done because eventually, I'm governor here now, but they'll pull all of this down. That state was where Boko Haram 15 years later. Now, we had hearings on it, Johnny. We tried to call attention to it, but we did not do enough to put pressure on powerful families in other societies. In this case, families probably like the Bin Laden Construction family, who were putting money in to that region that came with one caveat, and that is, we pick the Imam, we bring him in, and it was not an education those young men were getting. It was indoctrination, and they were supplanting the indigenous Islam of Northern Nigeria. The United States, if we're not listening to what we hear, and if we're not trying to lend a helping hand on any of these fronts, by the time we're dealing with the consequences, it can be too late, and so this is just an appeal. Stay engaged, stay involved, get more involved, get your friends involved. We all have a stake on this planet. We're all interconnected as human beings, and we should all have the same values in terms of human freedom and the attempt to move societies towards the rights of the individual. And towards protection of the magnificent diversity that we have on this planet. Chairman Royce, this is exactly why you will be so missed in your current position. You leave a very rich legacy, many years of dedicated public service. I hope that as you have more time to reflect that you'll come back and share more of your stories and your wisdom with us, we hope that the work that you've set loose will be continued and we will take your admonition to mind to stay engaged. But thank you for what you have done for your career that has made a tremendous difference for our country, for the continent of Africa, and in many, many dimensions. We owe you a great debt. Nancy, thank you and I will tell you, I've reflected on term limits for committee chairman. I am not a fan of that idea. But I am a fan of what you're doing at USIP. Thank you. Thank you. Please join me in welcoming...