 Jay Campbell is back. He is one of the authorities you'll find online with some of the best information on peptides How to use them what they do for you where to find them as we know peptides along with bioregulators fundamentally treat the root cause and pharma once demand aid with Symptomology by giving products that don't do that because then the money tree is gone Right because now these people can take these drugs Which then create a calvacade of side effects and other things that happen that they can sell more drugs for Whereas peptides and bioregulators are actually literally as he can tell you will cure the issue altogether if used, you know Correctly, you know insurgently precise dosages Jay Campbell's amazing. We've had other episodes with him You guys told us bring him back so we did and today he brought Nick Andrews with him This is a biochemical engineer who worked in biotech and pharma for 20 years We have a complex system here. There are multiple things going wrong if we can avoid it We don't really want to start messing with hormones because that's a whole another you know can of worms You don't want to open. Okay. Cool. Well, there's a lot of other things we can do here The cool thing about human physiology is the majority of the time if you can give it a little bit of help Your body will start to fix itself That's kind of the core principle really behind peptides is if you can help your body turn on the right things Or provide the right conditions your body knows how to fix stuff. It will go fix stuff Now, why do we have them both on the show? Well today they're talking about the truth about hair loss How you can actually stop and reverse hair loss with peptides and it doesn't have anything to do with blocking DHT or messing with your hormones like some of the other popular hair loss drugs In fact, they tell us those are bad for you and the ones that they talk about are actually pretty good It's really interesting in fact I've been using some of their products and messing around with them and I am noticing some effects In fact in today's episode you'll hear them talk about some of these peptides and they do talk about a hair loss product that combines them It is unique to them. They did make their own formula. This is a scout health product It is not something that we put into our hair, but your question. Yes This is a everyday health of the scout product that will strengthen the follicle and improve hair regrowth over time Now you can get it and you can get it at a discount through mind pump So if you're interested you go to InterestSkinCare.com That's spelled E-N-T-E-R-A skincare.com forward slash M-P-M And then the discount code M-P-M gets you 10% off your order or 10% off your first month As a subscriber of some of their products. Pretty cool stuff Today's giveaway the Super Bundle That's a lot of programs we're giving away, but here's how you can win Leave a comment below this video the first 24 hours that we drop it Subscribe to this channel and then turn on your notifications If you do all those things and you win we'll let you know in the comment section This is also the final day for the sale this month The beginner strength training program maps starter half off And then we had a bundle that included maps anabolic and maps prime That's the starter bundle. That's also half off This is the final day for that If you're interested click on the link at the top of the description below All right back to the show Jay welcome back on the show and you brought a friend with you I did man. Nick Andrews one of the smartest people on planet earth And it's amazing to be here with you guys. I appreciate you Yeah, so we did. Oh boy you got a lot to If you got some big shoes to fill in that opening statement So we did a couple episodes with you Jay about peptides You're I mean I found you I talked about this on the other episodes I found you online because your written content on peptide peptide science Was some of my favorite was some of the best ones that I found online You're considered an authority in that and when we asked you to come on the show You said I got to bring this guy on because he is he knows the stuff better than anybody So first you to say that's a big deal. So I'd like to meet you Nick So so what's your background and why is Jay think you're just like, you know everything about this Thank you Sal. Um, so come from a biochemical engineering background education perspective worked in farm and biotech for a little over 20 years Kind of get tired of the corporate thing. Um, had already kind of gotten into the health space Peptides, you know, due to personal health challenges probably like most people Ran into Jay around that time and uh, you know, we started building a friendship and You know, it took off So, you know It was an interesting Interesting pathway because of the background in pharma, biotech and from an educational perspective And being on the earlier side of the, you know, peptide revolution, right? um, it Just allowed me to have some unique insights and you know Meetin some other great people like Jay in that space and doing some very cool things What did you what did you see like so like coming from that background and then this the the increase of popularity of peptides Like what first like interested you like, oh, this is gonna be huge or like what was what was going through your thought process Yeah, so for me it was kind of a process of discovery. What really got me into it was, uh, I had had a lot of the cartilage in my one shoulder removed from a downhill mountain biking accident And was told basically you're gonna have to have a joint replacement by the time you're 40 And I was 30 years old at the time. I was I knew enough at that point to know that's the wrong answer So I knew there was a lot of stuff out there. I'd never gone deep on it Really so started going deep on pretty much everything like let's their answers. Let's go find them Yeah, and took about two years of just completely geeking out on any avenue. I could find that was a potential route And Like I said after about two years kind of home did on peptides and was like, okay time to be a guinea pig So, you know did my homework on the individual peptides, you know Looking in, you know pros cons. Yeah, like you see all the time Not as much anymore, but oh my god peptides are going to give you cancer All right, well, let's do our homework word of the pathways. How does it work is that a real concern or is it just noise? and uh In my opinion, that's a whole nother discussion, but for the most point noise So ran cycles for About a year and pretty much had almost full functionality. Excuse me full functionality back in my shoulder And put it in perspective when I started that whole process I could maybe do one push-up and that's it just because it was bone-on-bone. Wow. Wow. So, okay So I have a suspicion that because I just started diving in deep into the peptide space Uh, maybe over the last year. Okay. So before that I'd heard about it people had talked about it I'd heard about things like bpc 157 and you know growth hormone releasing peptides or whatever and I I largely ignored it because My understanding of the time was it's kind of gray market and then we have supplements that we work with that people can buy over the counter um, and so I kind of largely ignored it then I started diving in deeper And learning about them and I said, oh my god. Why aren't pharmaceutical companies all over the stuff? My sneaking suspicion is because it's harder to patent them and make it so that you're the only one that sells particular pet Is that why because people are here Some of these episodes about peptides are like, well, why aren't why aren't these like the greatest biggest farm of blockbusters? Like what's the deal? Is that is that why is it because you can't necessarily patent them in the same way? Yeah, that's a major element. So I mean it The why isn't really obvious unless you've worked in the pharma industry then you're like, oh, yeah, of course It's that sort of thing if you haven't seen how the sausage is made it doesn't make sense Uh peptides, you know, essentially a long amino acid chain So amino acids are kind of like individual lego blocks A peptide is when you start stacking a whole bunch of them together And then if you stack peptides together you get proteins So that's the the simple breakdown of the differences there With peptides the vast majority of them Um, you know, I think it was kind of a couple strings tangled together with branches hanging off In a lot of cases you only need a fragment To actually produce the biological effect So if you're a pharma company At bpc 157 Actually, better example tb 500 thymus and beta 4. There's always a lot of confusion around that. Are they the same thing? Are they not the same thing? No, they're actually not but that gets directly to this because thymus and beta 4 is the full length Human equivalent molecule that you would find in a human TB 500 is they basically just cut part of that chain off and only took the part that they need that's still biologically active Oh, okay So from an industry perspective If you're a pharma company and you patent and try to launch thymus and beta 4 You're going to spend anywhere from 500 million to almost a billion dollars to get through approval The second you get approved I can come behind you and use your filing with a shortened molecule To launch my product for anywhere from 200 million to 300 million. So from day one You lost money. You will never make it back. You're fired and you will never work in pharma again Wow, I mean that's kind of like the that makes so much of the old supplement hustle, right? Or you would you would create a supplement that was real close to like a Like a steroid. Yeah, and then all of a sudden they come out, right? You'd run it people would sell it They would tell all their friends they would go gangbusters Then all of a sudden they come crack down on it and say, oh, this is now on the list of illegal And someone would come right behind that change it by like a molecule and then it's like well, so for the same game That's how patrick arnold man is living. Do you guys know patrick? Yes? Yes, 100% oxo Patrick arnold. He's a good friend. Yeah. Yeah, he came out with a supplement that was an aromatase inhibitor and because it didn't fall under the category of Regulated aromatase inhibitors it was able to be sold over the counter But it was almost as effective as it was a loophole supplement. Yes. Yeah, and a lot of the designer steroids at the time Like that's where they are But this sounds different this almost sounds like I come out with a supplement that let's say it's a multivitamin And it's got creatine in it and people buy it like oh, I build muscle and then another person comes out and says It's the creatine that's building muscle. Let's just sell that now my product That's a hundred dollars for a bottle you could sell for 15 dollars a bottle people get the same result So in other words, they're the laws that we currently have that protect companies against You know other people copying them. Yeah, it's almost impossible to create regulations laws that would protect a pharma company From competition with peptides. Thus, they're not going to put them out and sell them and talk about them much because Why would they when they are going to put something out and then someone else can be able to come out with a Active version of it. There's one other thing and he can address this and I'll just put it out there But as we know peptides along with bioregulators fundamentally treat the root cause and pharma once demand aid With symptomology by giving products that don't do that because then the money trade or the money tree is gone Right because now these people can take these drugs Which then create a calvocade of side effects and other things that happen that they can sell more drugs for Whereas peptides and bioregulators are actually literally as he can tell you will cure the issue altogether If used, you know, uh, correctly, you know and surgically precise dosages I mean so a good example of that is look at the hep C treatment Um, there are multiple versions of it goes by multiple names, but essentially hep C cure In the u.s. In europe, they charge anywhere from 50,000 to 30,000 dollars for it Uh in india, I think it's like 1200 dollars. Um, when big pharma originally launched that Walls they actually there were multiple articles published by the wall street journal and other articles saying is this a sustainable model And they took a lot of heat from wall street because the barrier you're talking about is a combination It's the regulatory barrier, which we were just going through but it's also the financial barrier So any public company is entirely beholden to wall street function. What's my stock price? Is it going up? Is it going down? So when you spend 500 million a billion dollars to get a product launched, wall street is going to say Cool, what's your 20 year earnings on this? And they base that essentially on a subscription model floor all on 10-some purposes So when they say whoa, whoa, whoa, this is a one-time purchase We have a problem here. So they will penalize your stock. Yeah, so and now I want to be Just for the audience listening, uh, this isn't necessarily this is just a symptom of How things work. This isn't the root of all evil. Right. Um, we need investment. We need research. We need profit However, when you understand the system, then you start to see that for example If I'm a pharma company and I want to come out with a cancer treatment And I know that there's these different types of chemotherapy that I've all been approved I have this type of return and then I have this experimental potential pathway I don't know if it'll work if it's not going to work. I got to spend a billion dollars to figure it out I'm going to go with this guaranteed return versus this is why you see pharma companies not branching out into more experimental potential Uh solutions because they're going to look at more like what other kind of opiate can I create? What other kind of whatever can I create that kind of does this similar thing that maybe is a little less Symptoms and so on so that I think is important to understand and now why when we're talking about peptides Legit if you look and I've been diving deep into this It's crazy. Yeah, what they some of these can do And as I'm reading about them, I say to myself, why why isn't this like standard of care? Like what's going on? like for example, I Learned this the other day that peptides Are not so drugs kind of force your body to do certain things peptides Your body already recognizes in essence and it does what they would normally do When presented with this, you know peptide information. Is that yeah So think of peptides as a key in a lock So to open the door to a process running a healing process or generative process Whatever whichever one you're targeting You need a key to open that lock to turn the process on Right. So your body has its own Keys to those locks, you know its own endogenous peptides the molecules your body normally produces We can mimic those exactly in a lab or whatever variation we want quite frankly Um when you're using essentially synthetic chemicals They're not specifically targeted hence why you get all kinds of side effects, right? And this is also why generally speaking while there are certainly exceptions Peptides rarely have any real side effects Because you're copying the body's exact key and that key only does what it's supposed to It doesn't go hitting other locks that it shouldn't be opening Versus think of like a more of a synthetic or chemical drug Um as just a skeleton key. I've got a skeleton key. It'll open this door But the problem is is it's going to open 20 other doors that I didn't want to open Oh, that's a great example So people don't know a skeleton key is a key that opens many many locks You want it to just open one, but now you've caused all these other issues Wow, so it would be is this a good example? Um, I have chronic pain I could take an opiate or Uh, I could find a way to get my body to produce its own natural opiates And that would be a very different process. Okay. I mean, so for example there, you know You would have to get into the root cause a little bit But depending on the root cause in this example, you can look at something like ara290 Okay, there's a ton of literature on that, you know, there's understood mechanisms for why it can help with chronic pain It's you can literally go straight to the root causes now. Yes, obviously Some of that's going to come from lifestyle, right in my case. I crashed a frickin mountain bike ripping down a mountain Um, but maybe, you know, you have a predisposition to something or your lifestyle just really wasn't where it should be You weren't taking care of yourself So, yeah, you got to address underlying factors. Otherwise, it's fundamentally a patch But if you address the underlying, you know factors that allowed it to come up in the first place You're regenerating you're resetting you're rebuilding. So it's not a patch Now when you first started getting into this coming from the, you know, kind of, you know The medicine space and then you come into this space and it feels now like it's starting to become more Accepted maybe a little more mainstream But for a while there It sounds like it was probably kind of like this gray market like you got to kind of fight a lot of the Oh, no, that's not what works and that's dangerous and don't go there type of deal. So how was that for someone like you? I mean functionally in the beginning when I was first getting into it I know when Jay was first getting into it Honestly, most people were like, oh, like you're injecting drugs Like you're living out on the corner with like heroin or something and it was like Why would you inject something in your body? Like like dude, like I think you need some help and like But you know as we've all seen right over the last Especially the last like four years, but even over the last 10 years People have really started to wake up that You know not far big pharma is not inherently bad. There's a lot of good things out there But there are a lot of things in it that are problematic and there are legitimately alternative paths And people have become far far more aware of that. I don't want my audience to get mad when I say this But it's true. I mean big pharma has created a lot of solutions But at the end of the day as you said the very beginning of this podcast It's the origin of the business model that is the problem Where it's for profit or bust and that is why big pharma has created this But it's it's really more just again a symptom of the endemic causation of how do we create Drugs and then keep that drug pipeline going so that that person can use it for 20 plus years of their life Yeah, I'm going to go even further and I think I'll I'm going to narrow it down again because I am a unabashed supporter of markets and The big problem I think here is we've created a system Where in order to get something to market your initial investment is a billion dollars So you have to figure out a way to profit that much or more Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time. It's a complete waste time If the market were different if the regulatory process allowed for Them to take more chances, and I don't know what that would look like Maybe put more responsibility in the hands of the consumer. Maybe put a ranking on it and look your terminal Here's a risky drug. It's up to you. I don't know But the it's the cost of bringing these things to market that make that they it makes no sense I'm a business owner right if you told me hey Sal Here's these things that are going to work really well And I'm like it's going to cost me a billion dollars to put that out and I'm going to make a million dollars And it's a 50 50 chance. It makes it. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. You've been in this space for decades What how would you do it if you had the opportunity to to do it? How would you do it? so Really, there are two fundamental pieces you can't have we'll say a In net positive pharmaceutical industry that's tied to wall street that doesn't mean it can't be a profitable business But if you're tied to wall street, you are tied to quarterly earnings You know, what are your projected earnings? And if you're not hitting those targets, you will be penalized So it becomes a race to the bottom whoever is the most ruthless at hitting those earnings targets You will be massively rewarded by the market and you will instantly outcompete everybody So it forces everybody to play that game So Absolutely, I'm with you, you know Free markets, you know the pursuit of profit is fundamentally a great thing But the the problem in pharma is you end up inadvertently with a lot of adverse incentives So you would have to come up and I'm certainly not a wall street guy with some Alternative way for them to be plugged into markets not in the standard fashion They would probably need certain limits and guardrails So that big money can't come in And not even necessarily intentionally, right money just wants to go where it's used But even inadvertently create all these adverse incentives Yeah, so I have an idea around that because I I remember experiencing this first hand with a family member who had terminal cancer And I remember her diagnosis was terrible. So she had a stage 4 lanitis plastica This is a form of stomach cancer like your survival rate is essentially zero. Okay And I remember at that point your terminal And you still couldn't take whatever you wanted. No, no, no, we can't and I remember thinking She's going to die right who cares if she wants to do cocaine every day She should be allowed to like literally yeah, so not saying that that would be a good idea But my point was my point with that was I could see how the system Creates these kind of perverse incentives So I mean personally, I don't know if this is a great solution But I thought a lot about this and I think I would like a rating system like this has this many years of proven This is this is experimental It's code red Use at your own risk and then people would say well, you know, I'm already terminal right I'm gonna go with because I'm dying anyway That's the answer allow the consumer the choice And going back to what you just said it's the perito principle in play again You've got way too many losers in that system And the winners Take the lion's share of everything and then they also garner the you know Political clout because they're the Pfizer, you know, they're the gentek. They're the big names and that's where the system is gone unfortunately, yeah, I I totally understand and then you know, you know, I know we're going off in a tangent, but you know There's a there's a empowered people and then there's disempowered people and if you keep people reliant Independent well, you have a lot of power But when they're empowered like when they exercise Exactly and from my understanding with peptides when you look at the way that they're used oftentimes it's like Oh, you use this for a few months and then the things work the way they're supposed to and then you're done Yeah, I don't hear that with drugs. Nobody ever does that with drugs always like use this in forever Yeah, essentially till they die, which is kind of interesting right side effects from the drug Yeah, so and now how why is it is it because the peptide kick starts or moves things moving in the right way And then you're cool. I mean for the most part most peptides are fundamentally regenerative Okay, so and that happens through a lot of different pathways and it depends on the peptide and the tissue involved and various other factors, but if you look at What I'll call most synthetic compounds most pharmaceutical compounds They fundamentally can't be regenerative. There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking um An easy example is adderol, right? So people can legitimately have a You know a situation due to many causes where you don't produce a whole lot of dopamine, right? So, you know, you're going to struggle with those sorts of effects Yeah, you can take adderol, right and you're going to be on freaking point But that has a cost, right? Yeah, there's no free lunch with adderol Like you'll fly high for a little bit then you're going to crash and then you're stuck on it If you don't take it You're going to sit there receptors down regulate and your body becomes ascensitized and you need more I know this because I had I have a prescription and I stopped it for that exact reason Horrible drive you get on to the peptide side and there are multiple peptides Especially when you start, I don't know if you're familiar with BDNF And you start, you know Turning up BDNF once again more of Something is not always better. So you got to understand what you're doing and you know work responsibly with your body systems, but yeah You don't need the adderol like that. Yeah, anybody who takes adderol is going to love it, right? But if you use peptides and you bring in diet and lifestyle as well because that's part of your physiology how your body regenerates I've worked with a number of people and Gotten them way past that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm one of them. I mean, I use C max Helps you that for me. I know that raises BDNF Um, and then of course lifestyle makes a Very big difference for me and the adderol itself I you know, I started developing bad Relationship with it and I had to stop like this is a crazy ass drug. I got to get off And if you look at it a lot of the typical dopamagenic compounds methylphenidate adderol so on and so forth a really Unfortunate longer term effect. They don't tell a lot of people about is it reduces your empathy? Yeah, exactly. So your personality is going to shift over time in a less favorable way And that's why that's something nobody wants to talk about Adderall, do you take Adderall? And we've been taking for so long That's very interesting. And yeah, these things do shape the brain and shape our bodies and but do you guys actually I mean this serious question. Do you guys know anybody who's ever not had or I'm sorry had an adderall prescription That didn't come off of it for the same reason till you're talking. Yeah It does the same thing to everyone. Yeah, I remember the first I actually didn't try an adderall pill until I was almost 40 I was in my mid 30s the first time I ever tried one and it blew me away Did they give it to kids? Yeah, like think about that every kid in college today is on adderall Nine o'clock in the morning. It fucked my sleep up that night. Oh, yeah That's how and I was taking a very mild dose by 15 milligrams. Yeah, right? And when I heard they put kids on this stuff I thought holy shit, this is this is the real deal man That's nuts. Yeah, it's it's scary to think that okay, so You're you're you're someone Nicole. I'd love to ask like in a just a bit of a vague question But still there's there's hundreds of these things, right? Are there are there certain peptides that that get you really excited compared to other ones? Like is there a group or class of them that you're just like This is this is the Ilnana compared to the other 50 or whatever. There's so many. Yeah, um, you know Fundamentally at the end of the day. I think To keep it simple, I'll use the name and our changeable thymus and beta 4 tb 500 But tb 500 and bpc Because they hit so many regenerative pathways Even in the brain. So basically you can almost name dysfunction in the body and Without even they help Google or anything or looking at it There's a 90 plus chance. I can sit here and just randomly say bpc and tb 500 will help that And then we can go jump on the computer and it's gonna be like, oh, shit. Yeah, it does Wow now it is bpc When you take it orally, I know it's supposed to help with gut health. That's how I take it But does it also have a systemic effect when you take it orally or is it purely for gut health at that point? So the the problem with peptides and this is why they're primarily injection is they are extremely fragile molecules Once again a few exceptions, but generally speaking extremely fragile You have all sorts of enzymes and other compounds in your mouth and your digestive system that naturally break Down peptides proteins and amino acids as soon as they enter right so for the most part peptides are not Biologically active to any significant degree orally Now you have a modified form of bpc 157 the arginine Which you basically had an extra piece added on to the end of the molecule that allows it to survive passing through the stomach That really doesn't tend to be systemic. It does tend to stay in the digestive tract So for somebody with digestive issues Yeah, a great tool if you're like dude, my shoulder and my knee my elbows messed up It's really when I go subcure. Well, so not without naming names because we don't do that on this show A lot of the bpc Formulations as he and I could tell you are Not worth the label they're printing on because they don't have arginine in it And so when they get into the stomach, they're instantly destabilized and the that's the pill form when you're talking Almost almost negligible. In fact, if you went on facebook right now and again We're not going to name names and you went through, you know, the ads and they behaviorally targeted all of us Because we're all peptides users and you saw wolverine or whatever it is, right? You get this oral capsule that is if you tested it completely worthless interesting interesting I've been using the oral with kpv and I think I've been noticing some pretty positive. Yeah, because it's arginine So that's another legit one. And so it also depends on how it's delivered So you have capsules that dissolve most capsules, right the standard gelatin ones that dissolve Basically, they start dissolving as soon as you put them in your mouth and in your stomach You have another sort of capsule called enteric It's a modified type of capsule. So it won't dissolve in your stomach. It doesn't dissolve until it gets into your intestines So it just releases everything there. So Putting kpv in an enteric capsule. Honestly, even regular bpc 157 You are going to get some function with regard to the totally okay. Yeah, except notice some really really awesome Gradual but compounding effects. Oh my god. That's actually a really good way to address Gut issues because it's going to focus almost all of the action right there in the gut Well, something back to what he said and you know, dr. Gordon if you guys add mark gordon on your guys We have not but I'll write that down. So I'll get I'll get him on your show. He's a good friend of mine, but um He loves a surgically precise dose of what he just said bpc and tb 500 for all of his tbi military guys Because as he said it massively addresses brain swelling and that's what those guys have from concussive blasts In the field. So over time a very I mean, honestly, he's told me I mean like those guys should be on tb 500 and bpc 157 Like in a surgically precise dose like almost if not daily every other day like for life until They're cleared because that's what it is. It's brain swelling. Yeah, I mean you look at, you know Like the the combat the military, you know tbi sort of thing A guy comes in from the field and you know, whether it was an ied or whatever You know sort of blast he was exposed to if just the first thing you did was say We're basically going to give you a fat dose and right there's a couple peptides And you know, you can geek out as to what the best stack would be But basically there are two or three different stacks pretty much all of them would include bpc and tb 500 Then you can get into other things like cortex and cerebral lysine Actually mt1 cmax so but without getting into the weed You hit them with that the second they come back And the vast majority of their tbi will never fully manifest. Wow, it's absolutely true Tbi's are like a lot of injuries think of sunburn You know, look at me, right When you first come in even though I may be read as a lobster The actual burn process has just started the inflammatory cascade that's going to cause the peeling and all the pain Is still actually Ongoing and hasn't fully formed yet. So if you can interrupt that process as early as possible the full injury Whether it's a sunburn or tbi never actually develops. Yeah, that's why they've shown studies with people Better fatty acid profiles and aspirin is preventing the actual burn from the sunburn by the way So, you know j didn't believe me when you know, we were first starting out together Um, yeah, how impressive for example, ghkcu can be topically so in the middle of the summer I purposely went out pretty much all day without a shirt got myself lobster red You know, I had a fun experiment to watch pictures. Yep text in the picture. I'm like, dude. Look, I'm freaking lobster red and This isn't the most cost effective way to approval point basically Slathered myself down in a ghkcu serum. I made just for proving this point and applied it like on one side, right? Yeah, well everything except for the one arm because like otherwise it's really going to suck But you know, I came in in the evening slathered it on before bed got up in the morning put it on again and put it on about three times a day And by the third day, no sunburn no peeling except for the one arm, which was like It's profound But you can't talk about the as you know when we were Lectured by our attorneys with our company many times that you can't talk about the uv protection of ghkcu because that's a whole Another thing that's a protected regulated That's a whole another element of big pharma that you have to deal with. Yeah. Wow. Really interesting. Okay. Well, you know, we specifically wanted to talk about A subject that is another huge market. It's a very very big market It's such a big market in fact that The most commonly used drugs that are used to treat what I'm about to talk about We're actually initially researched for other purposes But because this was a side effect that said, oh the money's there Let's go in this direction. And this is hair loss, especially With men now the reason why we're talking about this today is last time I had yuan j you you lightly touched on hair loss and the way that we Work or try to treat hair loss is through blocking dh t and you Went on a rant about how terrible Of an idea that is so let's start there the current understanding of androgenic alopecia or hair loss is dh t which is a hormone that your body Makes off of testosterone right attaches to receptors in the scalp Those receptors then can cause hair loss and if you have more dh t receptors Then you're more likely to have hair loss if you have less then you're less likely to have hair loss Therefore you want to have hair loss block dh t or block the receptors. That's the current accepted protocol You were saying that's complete bullshit and terrible. Let's talk about that first for a second. Why is that not a great approach? so You run into this a lot So So when you see that piece in isolation It leads you to pass which aren't really constructive because you're ignoring the rest of the situation it would be It'd be like, you know the oil in your car, right? Saying well, you know Never changing the oil in your car and saying well I just add more when I need it and then you wonder why your engine breaks down when the car is 50,000 miles Well, if all you ever looked at was oil level And not all the other pieces of the car You're going to be doing the entirely wrong thing like dude. Don't just keep adding more oil You you actually have to change oil and address other parts, right? so dhd can't build up in the scalp Absolutely, all that is is entirely accurate But here's the issue is, you know, we were an article about this a while ago It's interesting. You can look at infants. You can look at women You can look at other situations in men where you can show Very very high levels of dhd in the scalp or other areas of the skin that have a lot of hair Or hair follicles You won't see hair loss So not now the question is why? Well, if you start digging down into it, you find that DHT is not a root cause. It is a contributing factor. Oh, so You know it If I put enough pressure on the dhd pathway, right, um, you know dhd suppression, you know Multiple pathways there Yes, you absolutely show an improvement But you still have all the other broken pieces underneath that You're just taking enough pressure off the system so the hair can grow even though the rest of the system is broken Okay, so some getting worse. Well, I was just going to say so someone listening might be like, okay, cool Who cares then right but uh knowing what I know about the human body dhd Has a lot of effects not just making you lose your hair sometimes well being It's the most powerful anabolic Cascade of testosterone uh, and then of course, um It's it offers sexual functioning. So when you crush dhd Which obviously any man who's ever suffered from what is called pfs, right post finasteride syndrome can tell you about it Is so bad that it causes massive Depression and a lot of people and you know, again, this is in the clinical literature now have killed themselves from having pfs Lawsuits over this. Yeah, I mean massive. I mean, you know, we've again, we've written articles about all this stuff But yeah, I like to look at it as like this. You'd never want to block a god created Pathway when you do that you're robbing peter to pay Paul So it's like let oh cool my hair grew back, but now I'm depressed. I can't get a boner I feel terrible and so okay, so Dht let's talk about that hormone for a second and and all the things that it does for the body Because one thing I know by the way, you mentioned pfs Yeah finasteride for people don't know is a drug one of the most popular drugs that blocks the or reduces the conversion Of testosterone to dht. Correct. So now you have less dhc By the way, a lot of people don't know this If you take finasteride or do test ride, which is another one and you and you now have lower dhc Men will sometimes see a rise in testosterone because less of it goes to dhc And yet they're still getting erectile dysfunction and depression Just goes to show you that this dhc is that important. You know more testosterone still feel You know the biological pathways are very intricate And again when you're robbing peter to pay paul blocking one to effective another you're causing downstream effects Okay, now let's say somebody's like well, I don't get sexual side effects from it I don't get these other effects. Are there any health implications from blocking dhc that you might not see till much later Oh, yeah, I mean Jay and I you know, I've been shown a data set. It hasn't been published yet Hopefully before too long in the future and this has been You know suggested this may be occurring for a while But if you start looking at markers of cellular aging People who are on dht blockers are aging at a massively accelerated rate at the cellular level How are companies like bozzling somebody that's still in business then because nobody ever tests their cellular markers There's that mean you've only got true diagnostic and like an age And and there's now another company coming into the marketplace, but nobody knows that if so basically what he's trying to say is If you look at these guys telomerase expression, right? Which we know the peptides which we talked about right in pitalon and thymolin actually improve Telomerase expression as we get older But if you look at their telomerase receptors or their expression, it is as he said literally Degrading their telomeres. Yeah, the other thing too, and this is what a lot of people might not realize I've read other studies on on other drugs and this is why specific studies are so important Because oftentimes it's hard to connect A in effect to a particular drug because you don't necessarily anticipate it, right? So it's like, oh, I'm taking this Uh this drug that blocks the acid production in my gut Now you would expect potential gastro issues or digestive issues or maybe even digestive inflammation You might not expect a higher rate of a certain type of cancer Which they've connected it to or a higher rate of Dementia, which they've connected, you know, some of these protein pump, you know Inhibitors to so that's one of the examples I'm using so you could use something that makes your hair grow back And then you wouldn't necessarily connect it to Depression, you know, that might happen six months a year later four years later type of deal. So unless you study it You're not going to make those connections At all, especially, you know, definitely not on a large scale and nobody's as you just said Nobody's actually seeing the Links or the corresponding data because people are just doing their biomarkers on labs from blood values, right? They're not actually looking at their telomeres. They're not looking at their dna Now again, it's out there. There are testing procedures out there And as he said, like the companies that are involved in this are not really Ready to go public with the data sets, but they have enough data now to see very corresponding. Excuse me Information that shows that blocking DHT is not good for your biological health. Well, so now let's talk about another popular So due to asteroid finasteride both of those in that category of DHT blockers Another common over-the-counter anti hair loss Drug is minoxidil Now for my understanding minoxidil was originally researched as a blood pressure lowering drug Correct during the research they saw people grow back their hair and they said well, this is a better market Let's go in this direction. Just like sialis. Okay. So exactly Lowering blood pressure. We got boners forget the blood pressure. Let's go with the one. Okay. So minoxidil. What does that do? Uh to help with hair loss its core method of action is to increase blood flow in the scalp Which I think it kind of like a clogged pipe, right? So as DHT builds up blood flow is already so Restricted blood flow is a core element of essentially any type of hair loss With a few exceptions So when you have restricted blood flow all the normal cellular waste inflammatory products that are building up Your body has processes for flushing them getting rid of them But if you don't have enough blood flow if the pipes are clogged you can't flush it out It doesn't matter right So it's just going to sit there and it's just over time slowly going to you have a little bit of flow So it's not overnight But over time all that cellular waste which now initiates other inflammatory cascades just build up and build up and build up Now you're losing hair left and right. Okay, so Minoxidil by increasing blood flow is helping to flush those elements out. Okay, unfortunately Hair loss isn't not just as simple as blood flow. It's multi pronged. Yeah, it's shockingly complex when you actually dig into it Okay, so before we I want to get into all the all the pathways that you guys have identified We've talked about the software and I found it very fascinating But I do want to full disclosure. I've tried minoxidil And I don't think a lot of people realize that some people can have bad reactions. Oh, yeah So I used minoxidil you bite over the counter. I thought what's the big deal? I'ma try it I did not know it could make you feel dizzy Lightheaded easy and like shit. I had no idea. I came to work. I remember I'm talking like, I don't know what was wrong with me Something's not right. I don't feel good. I was telling my wife This was like a week of just me feeling I think I'm dying like what the hell's going on And I had to put two and two together and go wait. This is what did I change this also can lower blood pressure Is this affecting and I stopped using it was gone. I tried it again came back the same thing a lot of people You got the same thing from that. Okay. Oh, yeah, pretty crazy. All right So let's talk about the different pathways that contribute to hair loss blood flows one. You have blood flow and then, you know Without trying to write a research paper here You have mitochondrial health And then you're also going to have you know the stem cell state in the follicle. So Think it's a little more complex We have multiple types of stem cells that are always there living in the follicle You know regenerating replacing And then you have the overall inflammatory. Yeah, I was about to say in the environment now like if you're a You know an outdoor worker And you're exposed to heavy metals or really just like harsh elements like you're in the sun You're not wearing a hat. I mean, that's the micro-inflammations that are occurring in your scalp I mean, you know, that's taking down your hair. Okay. This is also what supports the research Why I guess red light therapy is supposed to help for hair loss to them improves So wow, so like using that with something like supercharged this. I mean, if you oh, yeah, it absolutely does dramatically So there's actually published work for example showing that In this case, I think they were doing it for wound healing But ghk regenerates lots of things is also great for wound healing some burns, you know But when you combine ghkcu and red light you get a net Uh You know combined effect that's greater than either one on its own. Oh, so it's like they amplify each other. Yeah, wow synergistic Yeah, okay, so you guys uh when we talked the last time you're on the show jay, you're like, oh, we got this thing It's gonna be amazing. It's gonna change everything. It's for hair loss. Just wait till I you know, whatever Um, and now I'm uh 44 years old, uh over the last I'd say 10 years My I've been slowly kind of losing my hair and it's been getting a little faster I guess I'm at that age. It's a genetic. Yeah, of course. It's part, you know, my my dad's almost lost all this hair My grandfather was bald as you know, it's heck of whatever So I started using it I'm only been using what you sent me over the last maybe three or four weeks And the girl that cuts my hair is like, well, what are you doing? I said nothing to her She's like I could tell a different and what I noticed was The hair loss really slowed down and almost stopped. That's the first thing that I noticed So I texted I remember the hairs you were counting in the shower. Yeah. Yeah or my hand With So I I texted Jay. I'm like what's in this specifically so I don't want I want to let's talk about that like what are the How are you targeting all these different powers? Here's the guy What do we what are we doing here? So I guess two parts so from a an approach perspective 50,000 foot view is If you look at the overall landscape and what's currently being done We can go after DHT, right? Like we know that works if you use minoxidil Or um, you know other like finasteride you absolutely get hair growth, right? But now you start to get other issues. So for example with minoxidil Even if You have no side of yeah, no side effects. No negative issues from it. You grow some hair great Well, what within two to three weeks of stopping to use it You're going to be obviously losing it So and worse right amplified because it attaches to the receptors and now it's not attached anymore When you stop so that was my experience Years ago, I used like Bosley and all these products and like, you know, I all I would get from is I'd feel like a little bit Of peach fuzz I would get and then when I stopped it felt like worse. No, it was worse But no, that's the biological mechanism of action and that's why we're saying Big pharma, you know, don't hate the player hate the game, right? Like they've got the greatest game ever You got to stay on a DHT inhibitor for the minimal hair regrowth if you get it But you got to deal with the side effects It absolutely can get worse because you stimulated new growth without repairing all the underlying pathways So the second that supporting factor of semenoxidil is gone All that additional inflammation cellular dysfunction that had built up. Well, guess what now just comes back full force Nick, let me ask you this too because I know this with other uh substances when you block a receptor or block um, a fundamental Biological compound in your body from attaching to receptor one of the ways your body adapts is by up regulating those receptors In other words, they found this in men as men get older healthy men get older Their testosterone levels tend to drop But their androgen receptor density tends to go up because the body says less testosterone Increased receptor density now your lower testosterone is as effective as the higher testosterone was. Okay If you're blocking DHT or blocking DHT receptors Does your body up regulate those receptors to try to offset or try to to uh, you know To kind of control for that and then when you go off now DHT is back with the vengeance and you got more receptors So it's much worse I have not personally seen a lot of work on that There is worth that uh suggest that that is the case and you would expect that to be the case Because you see that in almost any receptor whether it's testosterone or for dopamine serotonin Okay, you see that estrogen estrogen ai is same thing. Okay, so i'm on the right path with that Absolutely that that to me would make the most sense why you get a rebound Of hair loss and worse than you were when you first started again It's attaching to the receptor, right? So why it's attached even though as he said it's not addressing all the downstream issues As soon as it's not attached then why would it stay there anymore? Sure. It's kind of like taken, you know a whole big giant crazy stack, um of weight loss drugs or Androgenic compounds and Not really having a good diet Only training a fraction what you should Yeah, you're still going to get results. Let's be honest, right? And then the second you stop those compounds It's all going away and you're going to be in worse shape than you were before. Yeah People experience that all the time in our space. Yeah, okay. So, uh blood flow mitochondrial health DHT are those the three main So those are the core and then there are subsets under those um, so Basically to take a step back answering your question. Yeah um Originally jay was you know, when we started some skincare products originally He was busting my butt like hey, you know, you're a smart guy You know some stuff figure out the hair thing and I was kind of like He doesn't have a hair problem Yeah, like hair is not my problem man I like the sunburn stuff pretty much He kept you know poking me about it. So I was like, you know, let me dig into it and when I dug into it I'm like, this is actually pretty pretty fascinating and It looked at least in theory um By taking a look pretty quickly that there are multiple potential avenues you can engage To produce very real effects without having to get into the DHT game so Where's some stuff made some stuff and it was like hey jay try this um And the original version was you know, it was messy not user friendly more of a proof of concept It worked but it worked um So now um With the company I just recently started it's essentially the evolved version of that So hey proof of concept it actually it worked. It worked relatively well for a lot of people Something important to keep in mind with hair loss is It is very complex. So not every solution works for everybody I don't care what it is. You can have some people who rave for example about prp, right? And then you have people who are like it did nothing like yeah, like dude Literally it did nothing for me and I just dropped five grand. What's up. Yeah, so Yeah, it's a tool, but this gets into the whole I'm sure you guys know this better than a lot of people The whole end of one concept. Yeah, right? We are all you know, slightly different biologically from each other We we are not you know cutting pace of each other So what works great in one person is not necessarily going to work great in another and so fundamentally at the end of the day You have to understand that and be willing to adjust to find it works for your system So but your approach is let's look at let's affect as many of the pathways that affect hair loss as possible So we can positively affect as many people as possible. At least that's the way it was communicated Yeah, it's essentially an engineering approach, right? So like we have a complex system here. There are multiple things going wrong If we can avoid it, we don't really want to start messing with hormones because that's a whole another, you know Can of worms you don't want to open Okay, cool well, there's a lot of other things we can do here and the cool thing about human physiology is you guys know Is The majority of the time if you can give it a little bit of help your body will start to fix itself Yeah, that's kind of the a core principle really behind peptides is If you can help your body turn on the right things or provide the right conditions Your body knows how to fix stuff. It will go fix stuff Can we talk about what is what you guys put in this product? What what peptides and what they're trying to is it more than one peptide or is it? Yeah, so I there are three peptides and Then uh fullerines carbon 60 So, you know, right now we're keeping as a proprietary Formulation as we're working out the IP around it and all this and all that Um the one everybody knows because you know at the second you see the color It's blue right jhkcu. That's the one you've been talking about right jhkcu does a lot of things. Um One of the really cool things it does and this is a very bare bones Description is it can actually impact the cell at the level of dna Switching it from a unhealthy state to a healthy state And what I mean by that is You got an average joe sitting on the couch, you know Getting a little hefty You know dude, I should go to the gym But I don't feel like it and like he really doesn't get off the couch because starting in the gym sucks Um ghk is the equivalent of coming along and kicking him in the butt and being like Do you get your butt off the couch and go get in the gym? Okay, and oh cool Now he's going to start his health his you know his appearance everything is going to get better because he actually got back in the gym, right? ghk does a similar thing actually through multiple pathways. Okay, so it's like a pro health Uh avenue when it comes to the the dna and maybe mitochondria of the scalp if you put it on Yeah, um and on top of that it it is also fairly good angiogenesis It's creating new blood vessels. Oh, so it's actually repairing existing blood flow in the area and Stimulating the creation of new blood flow So hey, you got some clogged pipes. This is going to start working to help repair those clogged pipes But at the same time it's going to put in some new pipes By the way, when you rub this uh some because someone might ask like, you know If you rub it on your skin, does it actually get in that way this this this one obviously does Yeah, okay, so A lot of peptides most peptides honestly will be absorbed in the skin. The question is how deep So can I make a transdermal peptide cream? Meaning being absorbed through the skin The reality is generally speaking probably not Once molecules get over a certain size they can be absorbed into the skin But not pass all the way through and be systemically distributed. Got it. So in this case That's actually a benefit because we want everything focused on your scalp. I don't want to go on anywhere else Not that it would cause a problem, right? It would just help improve things other Places, but if we're focusing on your hair growth, well, we want it to all stay here and that's perfect So You will see debates and arguments about that. Oh, like peptides. Uh, don't work topically Did the microphone size? What are you trying to do with them? Or are you trying to get a systemic effect fix your knee fix your shoulder? Whatever it is Or are you trying to fix the skin? Right got it. So that I was just going to ask you At first it sound like oh, well then this would also seem to work if I had knee pain But no because it's not going to penetrate deep enough So it wouldn't be ideal to rub it on your knee if you had an injury It'll help with the hair regrowth underneath me. Yeah. Yeah, that's it one actually So the way I originally got into basically peptide skin type products is I was doing a lot of Brazilian jiu-jitsu and judo And those geese if you're familiar with them are they're almost like freaking sandpaper They're so coarse. Yeah, you come out with ghee burns all the time. I did it for years Yeah, my skin's very fair. It's very sensitive And I was training five to six days a week and I was getting to the point where the skin on my face was getting worn So thin that I'd be training feel like I was sweating and wipe my forehead or my cheek and I was sweating blood My skin was getting that thin I was like, this isn't cool So, you know, essentially Said, you know what? I knew dermatologists aren't going to have an answer But I'll give it a shot went through a few and soon as I would walk in I'd be like corticosteroids I don't want to hear the word corticosteroids. Tell me what else you got and after like the third person I'm like, nope. I got this like I'd already fixed my shoulder before at that point So like I know there's an answer in the peptide world Honestly, I only took about an hour or so of digging and I'm like, oh ghkcu So Yeah, at that point you couldn't get a lot of peptides as easily as you can now Fortunately with my background on pharma and biotech a little easier for me to get some of that. You got the hookups. Yes So literally, yeah, so, you know made a phone call got some sent to me Just made a super super simple serum with it. Um at about a three percent concentration and Within five days. It was day and night. Um within three weeks. My skin was completely normal And then a month later he sent it to my wife and the rest is history. Wow Okay, so that's that's ghkcu And then you said there's a few other a couple other compounds or peptides in uh, this hair product What else is in there? So, uh, you have carbon 60 fullerans So if you look at it, it's uh, a bunch of carbon atoms in this case 60 c 60 Connected to look like a soccer ball The cool thing about this molecule is that it essentially acts like a super antioxidant Think of a soccer ball and think of every point. So you have all the uh The hexagons around the soccer ball at each of those connecting points This molecule can take on a reactive oxygen species So it can absorb waste, but it can absorb an absolutely massive amount. It's like a molecular sponge Oh carbon. Yeah, just like when you uh, take uh, uh, yeah activated charcoal. Yeah, just a super fancy effect version So basically so for people that know you take is activated charcoal been used for ever Uh with poison you take it it absorbs the Poison and then it makes it inert and you get rid of the Activated charcoal and the poison now has no effect. So is that what's happening your scalp? It's getting rid of the waste making it essentially so it doesn't Cause the same amount of damage type of deal. Correct. It's helping clear out all the waste that's clogged in the pipes Okay, and then it's also it's almost dual edged or or double in that it also allows for the angiogenic effect of the GHKC unit even absorb even better into the scalp. Oh interesting If you were sorry to cut you off, but you just got my going down a rabbit hole here, maybe um If if you were somebody who had like a balding in your family, would you be far better off starting? Using this on a consistent basis than waiting until you're like at my place, right? Okay, so this could be like almost like a like a therapeutic thing that you would just So one thing that he taught me and educated me on and I want like all of your listening audience because I've been doing it for four years to buy To understand is this is a scalp health product It is not Something that we put into our hair and see and by the way, you know because you're talking about men This works as you know better for women than it does for men Okay, so let's be very clear about that. So you're ladies, which you guys have a massive ladies audience, you know will Autoimmune dysregulation hormonally related hair loss pairing menopausal pre menopausal post menopausal hair loss This product literally stops it in its track and again because most women's hair loss is due to You know age related stuff anxiety worry stress, you know, they're the maternal They're always worrying about somebody in the family or the kids or whatever And then so this product massively improves the angiogenesis in the scalp and really it just it proves the health of the scalp Now one of the issues that we found is that a lot of women will get so excited because they see regrowth fast You know, I was telling you guys this they carry diaries around right and they're like literally Listening how many hairs they lose per day And then all of a sudden this starts working amazing the hair stops falling out similar to what you experienced And they're like more is better And then they start putting it into their hair and we're like no, you know If you have long hair like most women you got to get into the scalp And so that's why we use and we can get into that But why we tell people about you know micro needling and just I was just getting stuff deeper into the scalp to help it But your question. Yes. This is a Every day every other day Health of the scout product that will strengthen the follicle and improve hair regrowth over time To piggyback off what he said is once the follicle you lost the hair Is there a point of no return the follicles dead? That's amazing question. Yeah, and the answer is actually no there's been Still help or hope, huh? Look what you just did to adam and please don't lie to him. I mean, he's he's so happy right now No, there's published out research out there that shows that you can read, you know, the follicles are not actually fully dead and gone Um, they can be re stimulated regenerated now in the published research It's not done through the same methods I'm using but that's irrelevant because it's showing that it can be done So now the question is just how do you go about it? Now what you have to keep in mind though is that that is a very very slow process It's not like, oh, I'm gonna fix this in a month. Maybe two like no, no, no No, let's talk more like six to 12 months. Oh Well, do you guys know Richard Cooper? You know, he's an entrepreneur in cars It's got a huge youtube audience a couple million people, but he He's like you and we gave it to him, you know, I did a podcast like you mean bold. Yeah, okay Not as amazing as you Of course, no Richard's right. You guys will love Richard. He's just one of us but bottom line is Chromedome he started putting on it and remember the the he's got pictures I mean, he literally grew like Half an inch of peach fuzz all over his head and then he just shaved it off because he just likes going chromedome But he was like it works So we know that even guys without active follicles if they give enough time and he gave it 90 days And he was like that's the most I've ever grown since I literally started shaving my head So we know it does work, but it would take a long time Yeah, okay now now before we get into the the other compound that's in there You mentioned something called micro needle ink. So I did learn this on my own So I you guys sent me samples. I've been using it for a short period of time Like I said, I could tell something's going on and then I was online reading about You know other things people do or whatever and I kept reading about micro needle ink And you what they have like this roller and you like roll it over your scalp and then that helps with absorption Okay, so that's not bullshit. That's a legit. That's 100 I guess a a technical term you might hear in a clinic or something like that Is a healthy wound, right? Okay, so one way to it sounds very counterintuitive But one way to improve regeneration of almost any tissue Is by causing additional injury to it in the proper way. So you can look at ultrasound techniques, right? That's kind of what exercises, right? Yeah, yeah, the exact same thing You put that stimulus that load on it and it stimulates your body to regenerate So you're actually getting a dual effect from things like micro needling So you would micro needle a little bit then put it on right and you get a better effect So that increases absorption So you're getting more into the the the dermis on the head into the scalp and at a deeper level But you're also causing a healthy injury to help just further stimulate regeneration of the area Yeah, because micro needling by it. This is what I read by itself sometimes helps with hair regrowth. Yes Okay, so someone like me who actually has a juve light too What step me through this like I get out of the shower I do the micro needling I apply it and then I would sit maybe in the right then in there Or a different three minutes three minutes to four minutes just lightly massage it in So get out of the shower micro needle with whatever needle size you prefer Um, apply it and just massage it in and then right and then go sit under your juve light for three to four minutes 15 minutes I mean if you want to do 15 20 you can but I mean most of the guys that did it usually do three to five minutes Yeah, wow. Yeah, and you can do it twice a day too. You know, you can put it more in Well, I already so I actually when we first we when we first started messing with juve I thought that was all bullshit way back when and I remember the the deeper we went and all the research We're like, damn this actually is not super research. Yeah, and uh, what I noticed and it wasn't even a purpose I actually like my I would sit because you I do my 20 minutes or what I thought, you know Naked in front of my juve and I'd be like this and I'd just be like looking down And I what I noticed is this is before I knew that it would did that for my hair I was like, dude, I feel like my hair And then sure shit, I think Sal wasn't want to went in like he's like, bro Actually, it actually shows that it's supposed to do that. So I already see some of the benefits from that. I can only imagine Combining the two of the super stack. Yeah Also to optimize mitochondria to we talked about this So we created, you know a stack and you know send it out and I'll send it to you guys and stuff But you know met foreman again massive mitochondrial up regulation. So And and anything that's going to get rid of I mean not systemic but topical inflammation in the scalp Okay, right. So like and as you told me dude hanging upside down If you hang upside down in attraction thing for 10 minutes a day or even do it twice a day for six or seven minutes That will help too. Imagine hanging upside down with the jubelite hitting on my head I mean I feel good traction on my spine anyways, remember kill tubers once I mean it feels amazing to be in the zero gravity Yeah, it does yeah Yeah, the challenge with you know, all those things jay just touched on is Yeah, anybody who's going down that rabbit hole is keeping perspective, right? Because It's easy to get lost in the weeds. Uh, you know, there are legit world supplements You can take that do support here. Definitely. Are they going to regrow your hair overnight? Will you even notice anything on those alone? Probably not But you have to look at the system as a whole and the cost benefit for you So if you're like, hey, I'm mr. Fitness. I'm mr. Optimization I have every single one of these tools and every single one of those supplements my cabinet and I already take 50 supplements a day Cool, do it all. Yeah, you know, if you're more of an average dude, you're like, what's a red light? You know, what's gonna make the biggest impact is basically what you're saying Well, it's also very very important that we say this and you know, he always would push me and we and you know In the beginning of our company, we didn't do this, you know, very honestly We made this mistake and we went out there and raved and said, hey, it works in the majority of users Right because that's the feedback that we got. I'll tell you who it doesn't work in It it does not work in people who are dumpster fires. Okay Basically, let's just be really honest. I mean, again, in other words, if you're like super unhealthy Nick showed me the research and let's just put it this way in the most simplistic terms That and peptides in and of itself like they imitate the cellular health of the end user. Yeah. Yeah. So if you are inflamed obese You know pouring sugar and alcohol into your body at high rates your it's not gonna work I'm actually never see that. I'm really glad you said that because I mean, this is how we talk about Any sort of supplement or thing that or even fitness It's like you these people think that you're going to take this this, you know, creatine or protein powder or any anything And they're like, come on, bro. You may try. Yeah, and you're doing all this other shit You know I'm saying it's just like, well, come on. I mean like all those things are great and valuable But I mean take care of the big rocks first like exactly the bad shit out No, it's it makes so much we hear this with fitness. So if I lift weights once a week That'll speed up metabolism enough to where I can eat like 85,000 Okay, so you had the g g hkcu, right you talked about what was the carbon carbon 60 carbon 60 and then there's something else Yeah, and then there are actually two other contents. Oh two others. Okay. One is a a biotin It's a a short peptide chain with biotin attached to it. I see shampoos of biotin. What is that? Right. So uh, biotin is used in multiple processes in the body It is actually a key molecule for hair health and hair growth You do normally have it in your diet And you'll see a lot of mixed stuff on biotin. Some people say and it does nothing and others Hey, it does amazing things. That's what you get into. What's your health state? All right, what what is your end of one? How does your body operate? so The biotin peptide is doing two things. It does have its own regenerative mechanisms very very similar to g hkcu So that's primarily overlap from that portion of it But you're also by having the biotin attached to it. You're also helping directly deliver it to those systems While you're regenerating them. Okay, so an interesting effect You do get in some people, you know, we don't market this because it it is more of a variable effect But in some people it will accelerate the reproduction of pigment. So hey, I'm starting to go gray I'm starting to go white Um, like in my family, um, we don't go gray. We just go white My sideburns are getting a little more white than I wanted. So You know, I tested it on myself like we saw it on jay when jay was running I mean my hair is a lot darker using this problem You know, once again, but you know jason just to be blunt and you know better, uh, overall health than I am But you know, I'm in pretty good health as well Within two weeks. I was just using all my sideburns every morning after the shower I was like, dude, I'm like, holy cow. Wow. Interesting. So we don't promote that But it is a noticeable effect and women who take the product see their hair dark and go up to their natural root a lot I noticed that from uh, supplementing with copper. I actually my copper and that's the ghkcu right there. Oh, okay Yeah, so the copper alone the ghkcu alone a lot of times won't do it But when you combine it, um with biotin compounds, you start to see that far more often Really? Okay. Yeah, because I I got a we have a functional medicine Practitioner we work with is phenomenal. Dr. Stephen Cabral We did this whole like test panel or whatever and my zinc and copper Were way off. So I started supplementing with a selenium copper supplement or whatever and my hair got darker As a result and I didn't make all the grades go away. Obviously, but it did make a bit of a difference salt and pepper Yeah, cool. Okay. So um, and then you said there was one more. There's one more. Um, so Keratin keratin genesis Occurs in the base of the follicle. It's one of the key pathways of growing hair Maintaining its health and the health of follicle Over time that process can start to go off track for any number of reasons from age from inflammation build up Once again that related to DHT, right restricted blood flow So there is an additional peptide in there that stimulates and helps rebuild that pathway Awesome. So how excited are you guys about this? Because this market is massive. I mean if you know and look we've we've tried it We experimented with it. I have family members. Yep that have been using it and it's only been A few weeks that I so I had before you guys even sent us samples. I told them so they went out and bought it on their own And uh, it's been like three or four weeks and I have uh, my brother and a friend of mine and a cousin using it Nice and all of them are like, uh, this is kind of weird. I think it's It's working. Well, that's the that's the but it's only been a few weeks But that's okay But that's something that so there's two things we never got hit before we end this podcast And that is what you just said is critically important. Most people have been conditioned and trained Let's just call it brainwash to believe that hair regrowth products are scams, right? So like to even see results They're like, whoa, it's just something's weird here, bro. Because I think it's working. That's what they're saying And then the other thing and this is probably even like even more mission critical is to understand That it's not as he said going to work for every single person out there Okay, and again depending on your cellular health, you're going to get a better effect technically or theoretically If you have good cellular health So if you're a normal mind pump listener, and I know you guys have a lot of people who do take great care of themselves This product is definitely going to work. Okay. Good because uh, yeah full disclosure The people that I mentioned are all pretty fit and healthy Of course I think of what I'm getting from this too, especially when you shared all the stuff with peptides and just like how it's Like a natural key to the body It's like this is not like a drug that you can have all this adverse effects you so to me I see tremendous value in even more than myself I know we're joking and teasing about me But like people like sal and dug who are like still have a lot of their hair and thinning It just has a practice of just like you should just they should be part of your hundred percent washing your head I'll give you an example. Um, it probably won't be until First quarter of 2024 or so, but you know, we will ultimately be launching essentially either a shampoo or conditioner For exactly that point. Yeah, and you know to your guys point. I'll give you an example, right? Obviously, I have no issue with hair However, my son, you know, he's a teenager But look at his grandfather his grandfather was bald when he was like 25 So the reality is and he's even asked me he's been like so dad if I start having an issue Worked for me. I was like, yeah, like honestly and I told him like if if I even thought I started to see an issue I would get you started on a shampoo or conditioner that way just never becomes an issue just two or three times a week Put this in your hair like so what we'll probably do is actually women are more used to this than men But I leave in overnight conditioner. Yeah So, you know, do your normal shower routine wash your hair, you know, whatever your shower routine is then Right before you get out Just kind of squeeze all the water to your hair then, you know, work this into the scalp Primarily, right and then just get out dry off and go to bed Everybody's got to remember it's a scalp health product. So you got to get in a scalp Now one other thing it just hit me and I didn't want to forget because you were the one that reminded me So for all the guys out there that are on finasteride. They're on minoxidil. They're on due to ask, right? And they're hearing this now and they're like, oh shit, right? So it's like what do they do and obviously nick and I it it took us nine months to develop this program I mean, we had theories that we could do it right away, but we wanted to work with people. So this is what you do You basically continue on with your uh, DHT inhibitor, whatever it is again, propitia I mean, uh, yeah, propitia, which is finasteride, deutasteride, or minoxidil But you separate your application so that one, uh, is in the morning and one is at night And meaning the second application is this product, right? And again, by the way, the product is called falatin But you would do that until your scalp health improved enough Which is normally what two to four weeks that you can now stop the DHT inhibitor cold turkey And what won't happen, which they're all used to what you experience you experience and I experience Is it won't fall out now because the health of your scalp is improved so much from the falatin The peptide based products and the angiogenic effects that killing the DHT Up in here cold turkey will not cause the hair fall So take one in the morning one at night do this long enough to where you're like, okay I've done this now for a few months now. I can start I don't even think you have to go a couple months Honestly, I don't think you have to go a couple months I think we found most of our users were after four weeks they could kill it So after four weeks and they go off and then they're all yeah, and even then The general broad suggestion would be ease off over a week or two cut it in half Yeah, exactly order then yeah, yeah I have another question because you know having trained so many clients I remember a lot of female clients would complain about hair loss in their eyebrows I had male clients who their beard was this just work on other parts of the body So it actually does so, you know, I have a small group of both Men and women that you know, I have test drive any of my products for me And they've all used it like that just because like hey Kind of like you're thinking right well if it's working on my head, what else is that going to work on? Now ultimately we'll be having The biology does begin to differ a little bit once you get off the head. Okay So it does work Ultimately, we will have formulations targeted specifically to that. Okay Just so it's like eyebrows a big one now nowadays because the style for eyebrows changes When I was young it was like thin Now it's thicker now it's thicker and some women pluck the hell out of the eyebrows to the point where now now It's like it doesn't grow back. So one of the women who test products for me She plucked her eyebrows for so long She ended up just getting them tattooed on because they they wouldn't grow anymore And but she still wanted them thicker than you know, the the tattoos were and she said I don't want to do You know, I don't want to do that because then if I don't want to go back I kind of got an issue So she's like it's just gonna like hurt me if I rub it on my eyebrows I'm like, no, I'm like, I won't guarantee you. It's gonna do anything And I get a call about two weeks later. Like holy cow. Like I'm gonna take a picture and show you my eyebrows. I'm like Okay Yeah, well very cool. Well, this sounds very interesting Uh, and like I said, we've I've had people experiment with it. I've using myself Fascinating fascinating stuff. So I appreciate you guys coming on the show and fallout ends the name of the product And I think we'll set people up with the link so they know where to get it if they want to go to show Thank you guys. Yeah, thank you guys man amazing as always for sure. Thank you You