 You've got chickens, you've got pigs, you've got cattle, the whole lot mate, it's pretty terrible, to be honest. Here's a question for you. Do you think that we as consumers have any power and what happens? Absolutely, absolutely, depending on what you buy and the government is this grace when they... I think when Labour actually stopped the import. Or export to Indonesia? Yeah, buy and export, you see what's happening to those. Yeah, well I think it needs to be... This is all in Australia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So a lot of people will say, I don't send the animals overseas, they suffer a lot, but they'll be eating a burger which an animal had to suffer. So we just advocate for a vegan lifestyle which is one that eliminates animal foods. It also eliminates things that we test on animals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the same. Wearing animal skin. Same as perfumes and all that type of stuff where they test on animals. It's not like you can't wear perfume or other shade. There's vegan everything now. So there's vegan burgers, vegan hot dogs, vegan ice cream, vegan chocolate. That's what we're saying, we're living in a place where there's alternatives. We can go, am I going to get the one with the pick in it or the one with the park in it? Yeah, fair, cool. To be honest, I'm just being honest with you. No, that's fine, that's fine. I used to think the same way. I don't need a lot of meat though. People go out, they go into these places, they get the footage and they bring it out and we show the public. It's basically like shining a light on something that has no light on it. Respect what you do, it's incredible. We show the public that the power is actually in their hands. That pork just didn't end up on a nice little meat tray ready for you to eat. No, it was pushed into a gas chamber. Exactly, this is what happened to it. What do you think about this? It's great. Do you know what it is? Well, I guess it's animal cruelty, right? Yeah, but in what industry? Life's dark. Our food animals. We're trying to educate the public that most of the animal cruelty, the vast majority, we're talking over 90% happens because we eat them, because we eat products that come out of them, because we want to wear their skin. Most of the suffering of animals is happening in these industries and we're trying to argue on behalf of the animals that we don't need to eat them for health because you can be perfectly healthy without eating them. So why are we doing it to them for, you know? My wife's part vegetarian, so she still eats chicken. And if you saw what happens with chickens and how they're processed and their conditions, it's just terrible. What do you think if they were in better conditions and they were killed in a more humane manner? You think that would be better? Or would that still be wrong? It'd be a start. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's still a start. And humanely, to kill them or anything humanely, is at least the first start. So where they go to from there. So how would you kill an animal that has an interest in living in a humane way? That's really hard. That's a good question. Like a dog? How could you kill a dog? Good question. A lot of people just survive because they say they haven't got the intellect to know the difference. That's just a terrible excuse. We could use that with a human being without the intellect. Absolutely. That would still be wrong. Put them down. It's just wrong. I understand what you're saying. We show people that they have compassion for animals because most people saying people, rational people, are against animal cruelty. No one condones this. You're right. You're right. You're 100%. Because if we could prove that by showing someone kicking a dog people would be outraged. They would want the same to happen to that person. I had an amazing experience with a guy and a dog where we basically had to call the cops on this guy because he was so out of line with the dog. While I was working, I was in the middle of working. He said there's a guy over there beating the shit out of his dog for no reason and we ended up breaking it up. This is the compassion that human beings have but they don't understand. They don't see the connection that by buying a burger with bacon in it or with meat in it, with cheese in it, there's more suffering in that than there is in someone kicking their dog once. This is an ongoing billions of animals, billions a week. As human beings, we don't want to live a life where we're oppressed, we're enslaved, we're discriminated against, where we're treated as nothing. That's human rights. We want the same rights for animals and not the same right to drive a car. We live a life without suffering, without slavery, without being treated as a product. We look at it as in a double standard. We wouldn't want to be enslaved, used for our bodies. Absolutely. We don't think it's right to do it now. Most people feel the same way. They're against animal cruelty. You don't have to convince someone that that's wrong. No, no, absolutely. What we have to help people do is make the connection that they're buying and supporting it without us, this doesn't exist. Absolutely. No doubt about that. I totally agree with you. This is a vegan easy book. Vegans, obviously, we don't wear their skin. We don't eat their eggs. I'm trying to... I'm working that way. What is the biggest obstacle? There is no obstacle. It's just... There is no obstacle. I'm not going to make an excuse. There is no obstacle. There's no reason why I should be vegan. It's better for me. I love it every time because I have many friends going that way. You know there's alternatives to cheese and ice cream. I always enjoy the alternatives. It's not one time I've been... You don't miss out on the taste. Exactly. It's not one time I've had a vegan meal at this point. It's a transition from the... Have it. Absolutely. Tradition. From that moving to going to restaurants or picking your restaurant that does particular food, particular way... It takes a little bit of getting used to. Absolutely. I mean because we live in a society that's built off the backs of animals it's everywhere. Absolutely. But there's also... If you know what to look for it's there. You find vegan restaurants... Receptive to the people you talk to? Some are. Some are. Well it's a lot easier when I show them. Absolutely. Without that they make up a picture in their mind and it's nothing... You don't have the connection. I'll show them. They can't argue with that. They can't argue with that. No they can't. Can you? I don't know who could. I mean... To be honest I don't know who could. We do get the odd person who has no compassion doesn't care at all. Oh wow. But majority of people we talk to they're compassionate. They don't want to see this happen to animals. They don't want to know about it. I don't want to... It's like slaughtering your own. You know a lot of kids today don't see what happens on farms. They don't see where your fruit comes from. They don't see organic. They don't see... All they do is eat. You know one thing I've heard from farmers I treat my animals well. And I'll say well I'm not disputing that you treat your animals well. No. You very well do. But when you put them on that truck where do they go? Well that's right. They get a bolt gun in their head. That's... That's where... That's the next evolution isn't it really? The next step. That's where it ends. That's where the argument ends. Yeah absolutely. For you guys. Yeah yeah. And I appreciate that. Yeah of course. Because that's your side. You know... Because we are living as in a contradiction if we say that's okay for them but not okay for us. That's okay for them but not okay for dogs. That's okay for them but not okay for us. Well it's selective isn't it? Because we're not the victim. It's just like Japan. It's easy. You know slaughtering whales. We like stop killing the whales. Yeah but you're still prepared to kill your own stuff. But it's acceptable. You and China. They're acceptable to eat dogs over there. Well that's right. Yeah yeah. But we'll point the finger. Yeah because they're pets though. Here. You know it's way uproar. It's your upbringing. Yeah. And it's Western society as well. I understand where you're coming from. Because we wouldn't like to see a dog treated like this. What are your thoughts on it? You spot on. I'm happy with that. If I could stop here to park that beef and just go vegetarian I'll be up for that. I think the wall needs to go that way more than anything else. Vegan. If you know the direction you're heading in and if you know what to eat most of the food we eat rice, beans, pasta, potatoes fruit, nuts, seeds it's vegan anyway. Yeah it is. You can get vegan burgers, vegan ice cream, vegan cheese vegan chocolate, vegan lollies you're not missing out on anything. Anything. Except for we're asking people to be altruistic and think of the animal that they're putting inside of them wanted to live too. They have an interest in living. But how humane the industry says they kill them we'd still argue it's not humane. These animals they can't speak up for themselves. Well they can't. They're helpless. What can? They trust us and we do this to them. Yeah it's scary shit. It's just wrong. We deceive them on every level. And to be perfectly honest you've got a lot of unscrupulous farmers that just treat the animals not even with respect. Because they're a product of the day. It's all about money. They don't treat them well so they don't damage their merchandise. The end of the day they're sending them to a slaughterhouse that don't care about the animal's interest. Even free range eggs and just that and the other look at the way the chickens are treated and they class it. They kill all the male babies for eggs. They kill even free range eggs. They mince them up a lot. I understand what you're saying. Oh no I've cooked good on you. To be honest I'll take my hat off to you guys. I'll have one. Absolutely. I think it's a good thing that you're doing. It makes people think. If not think, at least talk about it. And the scene is planted. That's all I can do. I can walk away now. You can walk away. Never change anything. Oh absolutely. But at least you had the discussion. You're thinking about it. You're open to it. Absolutely. My first step was understanding that what I was doing was the definition of hypocrisy. That was my first step and I was like and then six months it took six months of me knowing. Oh well that's right. Six months and I was like people it's not cold turkey topping. It's an evolution. You know you need steps. Thirty, forty years of programming going to undo it in one second. That's right. Not going to happen. Absolutely not going to happen. It does rarely. Rarely happens. I really don't need a lot of things. At least you're not into Nile without the suffering. And I'm not into Nile. Not into Nile at all man. But a lot of people are that day. You're talking about like massive industries that are fucking you know that have and especially if any of them are listed once anything's listed that they can do all this shit and call it hold a value. You know we've got animal cruelty laws for dogs and cats that don't apply to farmed animals. Exactly. And this is just institutionalized slavery. They're right, yeah. They're considered a product of commodity and they don't matter. No exactly. Yeah, I'm going to trade you horrific though. No mercy. Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it. I hope you can I'm getting there slowly but surely. Powers in your hands man. Exactly. Take care man. Thanks for listening man. I really appreciate it. I appreciate it man. It's good to talk to you. Take care. Thanks a lot man. I appreciate that. Thanks for listening man. No problem. Thanks so much.