 Hey, good afternoon everybody time Stuart here. I am with this trotter our guest today is Kevin Conkel and this is smart business So excited Kevin It's been a minute since you've been with us Kevin Last time I was with you all I was on the outside looking in Yeah, yeah, you didn't so People don't know you Kevin give a little background. Tell them what you're doing now what you were doing before Yeah, go back to the beginning. Yeah Go from the beginning. Well, currently I'm I'm actually with tassel keepers house clean and I took a position with Tom back in late August of this past year To be a director of operations, so I Have some responsibilities and Charleston in Greenville we have a mission to laid out a a growth plan for 2024 and the mission was to increase and scale up the house cleaning business and Somewhat of an aggressive plan, but thus far we've made steady progress to it You can probably tell that most vividly by our You take a look at our dashboard You look at our recurring customer growth We have had steady growth Ever since that time we've never gone backward at all And there's a number of contributing factors for that but most of all and this is something we're going to talk about today, but Most of all it's because of it's because of the people, you know, the people really Have engaged and are working to make that happen and you really you have to have that So a little bit else about me before I did this, you know, I've done some work with with Tom and tassel keepers on a consulting basis and doing process improvement in documents and Some team building and collaboration and things like that I've always been engaged in assessment workforce development. I've done that for a long time the same role consulting and helping people develop and and learn and and You know become better team players if you will Before that I was in another service business. I was in the I was in the waste business and uh, oh, yeah, yeah But the 4500 company knows with a private company that we did a startup and And sold that long before that and the United States Navy wrote someone So that kind of gives you just a quick timeline of My different lives Are you at home right now Kevin? Yes Because I saw your your United States Navy in the background Yeah A submarine up on top if you can see it that's actually a uh That was done with a a gentleman who was a retired Um wounded warrior from the army from the Gulf War And he programmed his own he has a lay that he built And he built his own little software program and he carved that out So it's all carved. It's it's done with a lay. You can see it up close. You you You know, we have to tell him he sent you all picture of it, but I had it done for my dad and uh That's a replica of his world war two career war diesel boat, so Okay, it took me a minute because I did not see the submarine when you first said that And so I was looking at the picture And I was like that's a submarine out of the water And then I thought you said he built his own lake l a k e I was like lake for the submarine And I was like lathe Okay, lady. I see it now. I finally see it took me a minute So that's very cool. I like that Tom, I see you're ready Yeah and uh Kevin really has been uh leading some remarkable change within uh within the operation at castle keepers and You know a lot of it's the the people side of the business and that's kind of uh a big part of the magic recipe and I learned a lot hanging out with kevin. He's uh He has a gift I I think can we talk about just one more thing about that though two tom? I think it is also Well Not not taken away from kevin at all and actually i'm I guess i'm kind of adding to that It's something that you said at foundations was What you told him like what you wanted. I mean, I feel like that's a huge part of his success is you got out of the way You want to share what I said at foundations? so You said that what you told him was um what I want is what you tell it Was only two things right two things. Well, you know, I like to to grow the business but you know, I I want to be safe. I don't want to get sued. I don't want to go to jail I don't want to go broke And I'd like to make more money. Yeah make some money I guess I guess part of it is and you know I've had an opportunity to make a lot of mistakes over the years and you know, I try to learn Maybe I've learned a little bit through some of that but We work with a lot of people lives and sometimes they hire really talented people But they don't really get out of the way and let them do what it is that They're capable of doing and what they were hired to do Yeah Yeah, that's that's my point right like like you're like most people would think you tom are very capable very smart guy And why would you ever like in their mind abdicate right to this other person? but instead You have empowered him to do his best work It sounds like is that seem accurate kevin? Would you say that that's an accurate assessment? Yeah, I uh You know the thing about I guess, you know tom's relationship our relationship You know when we first started and we had a couple little, you know, maybe grudge matches if you will But healthy, okay And along with tom is saying he did he gave me a very simple task In a goal, right? Yeah, so I knew what that was I know how to carry that out Yeah, but it might not be the same way someone else would carry it out not even I have to start from What I know but more so just a clean slate Let's just take this now and build this we do have a foundation so we don't have to worry about that But now let me take this and and do these things that I know how to do So this can work, but not only growing The important thing is you have to keep in mind that you have to be able to sustain this Once you once you get that growth, you know and at every stage of the growth May require different talent and it may require different capabilities of people So you have to be cognizant of that all along the way While you're going through this this whole scaling process Because you don't want to get left behind and be you know Over here and and now instead of having 260 customers. I have 520 customers And I'm still cleaning homes. I'm just cleaning more But there is a little bit more involved and so you have to have people who are willing to engage who are agile who You know, they can be doing multiple things um, and so that's what you start to look for and we were very fortunate because We were sitting right on some people in our organization that I don't think we knew we had And so we did some assessments. We did I did some observation I picked up on certain things And that's who we brought into the fold is being part of This new team if you will Can you elaborate a little bit more on that Kevin? What is that? What did that look like? Who'd you have? What kind of skills were there that were maybe missed? I think when you You know, I don't know how many folks out there are are familiar with You know the disc and the disc profile, right? But prior we were somewhat heavy On the s and c Okay So the s and c does not lend itself necessarily real well To grow or to take that mindset, right? It's it's a little it's more conservative Uh, and you have to have that for balance. You can't have everybody going out You know just saying hey, we're all gonna jump off the you know, I won't say that that's not a good analogy at this time You know, we all don't want to jump in the lake together, right? Somebody needs to know how deep it is and you know, the temperature of the water all of that. So anyway I did my assessments with our work ready assessments, right, which address hard skills math reading data analysis, right And then I said, hey, we've had only people with leadership roles or take discs Let's get some of these other people that we're looking at looking at bringing up. Let's get them the disc and let's see where they fall Well, guess what we identified Some eyes in there And we didn't have eyes before Mm-hmm. And so now, you know, we had that and they were pretty high eyes as well Well that brought a new dynamic to the team And along with that high eye We also had people who scored very high On the academic portion of those work ready skills Nice. So now we knew we had people That brought help fit the dynamic better and could help us do what we want to do in growing But we also had people who had more capacity to learn And to take on more responsibilities so You know, those things were all going on the early stages to set the stage to where we're at now And so, you know, I would I would say, you know, you you do have to do some of that if it's important, you know It's like lizards. It's like your three words your Meaning measure matter, right? I mean you have to measure some things, you know on the front end and You're saying gosh based upon what I see here in this measurement Now I can take this and I can go here and you know, those other two components You know start to fall into place because now you're trying to fit something that matters to that person Into the proper place. You don't have somebody where that doesn't matter to them And they're never going to be motivated by but now you know you have a better fit for that so I think that that's an important part And then really from there it's You know, my thing is the empowerment, you know, you mentioned about, you know, tom giving me the ability to do what I needed to do So I mean I in turn I've always believed in, you know, learning to let employees lead empowering them But it's more than just saying that, you know, you you you have to You have to walk the talk with that And that means you have to give people opportunities to make decisions And you have to allow them to make some mistakes And as tom said, you know, as long as it fits in with the framework of not going to jail and getting sued and all that You know, we we want you to make some mistakes But we want you to build confidence in being able to make decisions Because if we want to groom you to grow into a A higher position, if you will a more responsibility You have to be able to do that And you have to have a willingness to do that many times people who You know are doing task related work or have always done task related work That's a whole new concept for them They don't you know, and you have to teach them and you teach them for giving them opportunities You know about how to do that whether that's with a personnel decision with a policy decision Uh allowing them, you know, I allow those two the two ladies we have now They facilitate the training They make the agenda I'll give them some things that I'll say I think you ought to look at this consider it They all included on there, but it doesn't have my name. It has their name on And they're in turn building The rest of that team that team is now starting to look at them as being okay and You know, we're getting some buy-in because we had Ladies show up. We did a a mardi gras meeting I bought a king cake, you know, we did that whole that whole thing We in the last weekend the ladies wanted to do a while over over at Our site They wanted to go to cracker burrow. So they went out to cracker burrow and they had a teammate Of course, some of the ladies have children. They wanted to bring their children. They brought the children Everybody was good. There was a lot of good interaction. It was good fellowship and there was business conduct And so, you know, those are those are things I think that At once upon a time the castle keepers had taken place, but it Had gotten away from that and so I think in bringing that back for some of our veteran Technicians, they're like, oh man. Yeah, you know, this is good stuff. We like this is what we should be doing You know, and then that helps the new people to want to engage as well so you know, Kevin last week at foundations, Liz and I were sharing that Wouldn't it be great if we were able to execute on all of the things that we know that we should be Executing on and we kind of admitted. No, we kind of we did admit that, you know, we straight up Yeah Aren't always the best at that either and there were a lot of people that were surprised. So what? You know, it's like, well, yeah, we're just as messed up as anybody else and you know I've been busy doing this That's my central thing and I'm kind of took my eye off the ball and you know, maybe for rational reasons I don't know. You can't you can't be everywhere doing everything and We we we we slid on the housekeeping side, but we are We're on our way back Flying your way back up awesome well I love that Segway into our six lessons from Ted Lasso Because I love me some Ted Lasso So have you have you watched the series? Oh, yeah So For those of you out there who've never watched Ted Lasso, I would encourage you to to tune in And you know take from it What you will but you'll You'll actually be taken when you watch the show by some of the insights that Are laid out there and some of them are very subtle and some of them are You know writing your face but The whole story really surrounds itself Um, I guess around six Different lessons You know that that come out, you know One is Be a goldfish well What's it got to do with being a goldfish? I didn't see any goldfish in the story, but being a goldfish is Goldfish is the happiness creature on earth It has a very small mind It doesn't remember what happened from one second to the next So it just keeps moving on whatever's in front of it is the best thing it's ever seen So therefore That meaning if you take that is Don't dwell on your mistakes Don't learn from that, but don't dwell on them and don't let them stop you from moving forward And once you you know, I don't want to spoil the show for everybody But once you start watching the show You'll see it's so good You'll see that Ted Lasso is really He is trying to he is taking measures To really to heal himself from some things he's been through in his life And so he's found out that hey, I'm doing these things but while he's doing that He's also transferring that sort of thing over to the soccer team right and Trust me, you know, you you He's getting some crazy looks You know when he takes the the guy who's the the lowest guy in the locker room is picking up the The uniforms and taking it to the laundry and all that He starts asking him about what he thinks about things and what he thinks about this play and How to play the game, you know, the guy's just taken back That young man had some profound feedback to give Which is another lesson You know that's there is Get feedback No matter where it comes from Because you have no idea how valuable that feedback could be whether it's from The lowest person on the totem pole or the highest or anywhere in between So, you know, very important because that you know to watch the show again Then this person kind of transforms and is now In a better position than what they had been previously You know And that also does things to other people in the organization that get Excited about that inspirational Yeah What else You know taking Letting employees lead Giving people the opportunity To grow encouraging them to grow Another lesson So one thing even at foundations going back to like Getting feedback and appreciating feedback That you get we had we had a A participant at foundations That was brand new to business And had never cleaned anything before and I think we've had one maybe two other people In the same position in the past in all of these years and We never really heard Much about the needs of this this segment Of the people that were coming and boy, did he have some good feedback for us or what tom? Yeah, it was a it was a A different perspective. Yeah fresh so fresh or like Easy to make some changes too some changes that could be really impactful That we would have never been able to we never did see or think of all right. This was foundations 13 We never did see or think we're just like So obvious When he said it was like how do we miss that? What? but So so impactful No Really appreciate feedback. I mean that was danning. I mean he Comes from a different world. He's uh knows a lot about digital marketing. He's like a marketing professional and Kind of grew up around the cleaning business though and uh, that was something about the industry, but He's got some some innovative thoughts and he's going to do really well. He's going to do really well in the house cleaning industry Yeah That's all yeah, that's uh, you know that's stuff because You know You know, you can't possibly have all of the right answers, right? Yeah, you can't possibly have it and there's people that see things that You know, we don't we don't see we don't we don't see we're not out in the field And uh, you know, we we had a thing. I'll tell you this. I don't even know how knows this but About a month ago. I I what I the other thing that I've done Along these same lines now Is that bringing in all of our new hires who reached a 30-day point? If I'm done, that's when I sit them all down and I I am engaged in this part And I ask them for their feedback how things are going. What do they feel? Our culture is like what could we do differently? Are the things we could improve on or they have any issues with anything? And we just kind of have a little discussion open discussion session And I do my best to encourage them that nothing will happen to them no matter what they say Um, but I usually I'm able to learn them then with chocolate and other so I remember that you always have chocolate one of our ladies had said to us uh one of our new ladies had said You know I don't know, you know my wrist is starting to hurt. She said I know I have some issues with carpal tunnel at one time But then we talked about you know making sure you wore a brace on that sort of thing and um She said but you know in the showers with that brush, that's the thing that really you know gets me You know and I'm doing the the grout and all that she said but um I don't know if I'm supposed to say this but she said I went out and bought one of these power brushes She bought it on her up. It's a little power brush, right? I said you see that All right, so I got back with Megan and Latisha. I said what Do you think Megan's a well Megan's alive? I've used one of those from time to time. I have to be honest with you So I said, what do you think if we get three of them when we try them out? Let's find out what we think the best one is the best price will test it We'll see how it holds up and see how the technicians like it And then we'll see if that's something maybe you want to incorporate as part of our You know our toolkit, right? So I went ahead Purchase three of them. I think they were like 32 bucks or something a piece And they're rechargeable it come up the whole thing just recharging it So we've had them out from our oldest technician who's been there 25 years to our brand new ones Everybody seems to like So because you know when you have a tile ceiling in a shower Right before we can't really do that but this thing extends You know, I think like four or five feet and so you can do the old scrubbing of all that Then you can get everything off And I mean, I would have never known that I've never seen this thing. I'm dying to then eat I see you didn't eat over there go or dawn actually somebody go investigate. Y'all find us this thing Yeah, I'll send it out to everybody. Yeah, sounds awesome But yeah, how would we know? You have no idea But you but again, it's just going back to what you were saying Liz to about about the feedback and You know the Ted last hope thing that it's really important. Don't ever forget about Asking for it You know and letting people Tell you so that they're comfy. You have to create an environment where they're comfortable enough to tell you those things too and but Let's go back to Ted for a minute and another one of one of his lessons is It's known as leaning into vulnerability so Yeah, I you know talk to Tom about this. I think you've all talked about this You know, you have to know right you have to know your limitations. I I'm good at certain things and I'm not good at other things. So I know I have to find people Where my strengths aren't there. I need them to fill that void for me So that I can keep doing what I do real well And then we can tap into their capabilities and do that And you know if you you go back to the 10, you know Ted does that Ted asked a lot of people a lot of questions He doesn't care whether he's asking ownership or You know the guy in the locker room Done that other teams other coaches He's always you know, not only getting feedback, but he's trying to adjust for Where he's vulnerable or his weaknesses up So I think that's another another lesson there that that is his gain You know from him and and if you look at For those of you who have seen the show And I just spoke of this a moment ago But it's inspiring confidence to those around you And you know, so you say well, how do you do that? Well, there's probably A number of different ways you can do that. I gave you an example of giving people The ability to make decisions right? And build that build that confidence up You know other ways You know as Ted does it in the The the soccer arena I don't know as if you're a member and they they brought this this young guy He's a little he's a little guy and he'd never played before and remember the prima donna Chris he Pete, you know was you know trying to do it all and and then chris got hurt and And they brought this little guy and he never played and you know, no one was sure about it Ted's like you're in man. You're in Go You know it was sink or swim, right? He's gonna put him out there and hey That was good. He was a good good little dude, you know So I think You know if you want to grow your team You know if you want to develop bench strength in your team And even if you want to Help people develop better relationship skills dealing with customers or customer service You have to allow them opportunities so they can build their confidence with that. Yeah Because there's a lot of uncertainty, you know, and and what that does I think what that does is well I can because the first thing I'll always ask somebody they'll come to me and they'll say Well, Kevin, I've got I've got this, you know when this is going on and I said, well, what would leticia do? What would you do leticia What's tell me tell me what you did and they'll tell me and I said that sounds good do it and they're They don't know what to say because they've not had that opportunity You know, yeah, and the more that you do that the more that they're conditioned The more that now they feel comfortable and what does that do for the organization? Well, if we can Make decisions more quickly Where something's happening that only benefits the whole organization Yeah, for sure, you know, there's not delays with things And and so I think there's I think that's you know another important lesson that That definitely comes through And you you want your you know, we want our team members to To be able to have some of that decision-making authority when they're in front of customers And not to not to always have to say well, I have to get with the office So we we'll try to work work toward that and finally it's Really, I think two important things and these are not like brand new earth-shattering things, but It's Doing the right thing Right Doing the right thing when no one's looking We've all heard that yeah, so You know Ted Ted's like that in in in his show, right and he teaches his team about that and he teaches them about that through practice and You know Ted There's a guy who'll put his arm around you and he'll identify this And at the same time he's a guy that will put you to the test Right and make you Think well, okay, really? We're gonna make me. It's really gonna make me do So I think that I think that that is a a very a very important aspect of You know what we're what we're talking about and You know the influencing of that which some of that has to do which What I wanted to tie in Is And I've shared this with you before Liz you've seen this before but For those of you who haven't looked at this. This is Mindset, right? Dr. Carol DeWitt Well a lot of this stuff that you see in the big Ted lasso has a lot to do with Mindset Right for instance that fella um, I think his name is chris who uh He's the prima donna, right? So he's the best he can't get any better He's better than everybody else. Well, dr. DeWitt in this book talks about growth mindset versus close mindset Talks about those who are gifted and talented as they as they're coming up through school Well gifted and talented have been told so many times that they're gifted and talented They feel they don't have a need to get any better enough to work So they develop a closed mindset and So a good example of that is that guy who was the prima donna He had that closed mindset. He's the best in his opinion. There's nobody he couldn't do anything else But then something happened to him And he got injured and Ted didn't want him back on the team And his old team didn't want it back And his agent set him up to go on this, you know bachelor show, right? I forgot about this episode Yeah, and he was a finalist And the young lady didn't choose him shot him down He was devastated You know, no one no one was gonna ever do that to him. Yeah, and he was on the verge of having, you know, a breakdown Well, he got to that point and his mindset started to change And then that's when Ted after having a discussion realized, okay At this point, I can bring you back because now you know, you're Your clay that I can I can work with and I can develop you're willing to be developed And sometimes, you know, we'll encounter people like that You know that this is the way I've always done it. I'm gonna keep doing it this way. This is what I want So sometimes we have to take measures to Help them see it a different way And there's a lot of different techniques to that I mean, you know, we probably can't go to the extreme that um Some of the things that you could do in the in the sporting world or military, but there are some other things that that I think we we can do and a lot of it is you know, Ted cares And at the end of the day, he's pretty kind. You know, that's his nature. Yeah, and Yeah, I think if you can create that in your Culture and your environment and and you really talk about it and You know, we started to do that now in our interviews. We're talking about what our culture is and we This was just serendipitous Complete luck There was a top workplace award and I happened to come across this And it was an interdage survey so we brought that survey in And I launched it for all the employees of both branch and tool I didn't know what was going to come up it up But I wanted to get whatever the employees were going to say and they had the their questions were all listed out I got the preview and everything before Sent it out. There was a really good thing did a launch. I got good marketing in front of it and And I would send blast out to the employees in terms of bill. We had 80 percent response for it I was like Which is really good. Yeah But then our responses were such that They nominated us for the top workplace award in South Carolina for small business And the comments in there that were given we actually took our comments now and Are and built because here we are today, right and we've had hyper, right? Lizzie, I think you were a part of that. Were you not? Yeah So we've taken what came out of that survey and have built now Here are our core values today Here's what you said All of you folks said this about who we are Now it's time for us to embrace it And to tell everybody who's joining our organization that this is what we're about And this is what we expect Nice and part of that is friendly It's positive. It's kindness And those are things that you know, we We can't just say those words then we have to Be that every day when we're dealing with people, you know, so I'm trying to set the stage with that and You know, we'll see we'll see where that goes. I mean we've had people I had a I had a terminated young lady a week ago and I've never had this happen before And she told me I just want to say that she said I have never worked For an organization that's so caring And consider it as this organization Okay You really mean that? That would have less impact if You hadn't said previously that the revenue has been growing every month So I'm like, yes growing our company and people are loving where we're working Yeah, I love that piece But you know and here and here's the other thing just wherever anybody out there listening that I've always said this You know, I I've I've been around You know for for a while And all of these different things that I've learned along the way, you know, I'm able to put together so I encourage anyone who you know might be new to You know operating a business And understanding that that If if you don't have the things that you see that Liz puts out um These different books and these different materials that you really need to consider engaging in that because That's how you will become successful That that knowledge is invaluable if you if you don't possess that you'll struggle and So I just think it's very important that all of these things They're all things that I've always read and and you can't treat any one of those things as a dot on the wall All of these different things have to be Integrated together from Mindset to where we're going to go with You know blue ocean and And before I leave out Ted's last last fundamental lesson is Never stop learning Always be learning. We should be learning every day to take an opportunity to to try to learn something new every day I don't care if that's a word or or what what it might be Um So, you know those those things I think when you watch that show when you look at mindset and then as we segue out to this So how do we then use everything? that we were just talking about and create this because This is how we should be looking at creating competitive advantage We don't want to be out there competing with Every other low baller and discounting and be known for that. We want to be known for Something else and we want to carve out our own niche In the very same market we're in but we want to be known for something But if we take the time and create the right culture and environment We stand a much better chance of delivering upon that service So I've kind of drawn out that castle keepers and uh A red ocean where we are now in a blue ocean where we'd like to be And so my latest has been a campaign we launched last week In that campaign I put nothing about Discounts specials I just put spring and sprung It's a little blurb in there. The call to action is We have some great spring specials going on contact You know to see if that right well People have no idea what that special is But our special could very well be what we quote them But they don't know that And so I think we have to get back to How we how we create that how we come across What we're doing out in the field we have to do a much better job still Of creating a much More vibrant Referral network from our customers. I think that that we're missing that You know, we still have to do a better job in terms of our google reviews We get a lot of good scorecards But we got a leveraged scorecards and that's another mission that we're on is how do we how can we better leverage those? but This blue ocean strategy it's it's not I'm introducing to that book and I took it I immediately went in because it's a Harvard business And That's where I've gotten bits and pieces of my information along the way But you know as I started looking at the various examples from This blue ocean strategy. It struck me that You know, we don't have to go out there and fight with everybody else You know, we can take there's probably available market share out there for us In our particular market That we really need to better focus on that share of the market Not that they're using somebody else maybe but that you know, there's there's people moving in here all the time that We appeal to them and How is that that we better appeal to them? Well here if I go to Daniel Island Charleston go where I play Daniel Lila It's a community here in Charleston Yeah, it's a Pretty upscale. It's very upscale community. It's it kind of is it exists in its own bubble if you will And we have four customers out there. We should probably have 40 customers out there So I've got a mission to Do some other targeted marketing out there that's some good folks out there So you can get an event in the fall out there And To help create this blue ocean That's that's part of that strategy because now we're really going to go after people that Aren't looking for The discount They're looking for the quality And again You never know unless you try something This week we had A customer who asked could we come out? And take a look at the home before we before they bought right We already have a first time in process. We put in place. We'll make contact and and if we get A bad feeling we may go out and look at but we haven't really gone out to homes now Well, leticia went out to the home. She met with people. She did a tour of the home the husband's alpha dog so to speak He was comfortable enough with leticia to let the wife walk around this house fairly large home nice home And the lady said well, we're looking at a couple of other companies But she said if I have anybody come in this house and clean it I want somebody like you leticia who's knowledgeable who's professional and who could take care of our home So leticia came back and told me that she said well, I said what's going to happen So she's going to call us back I said, but what if she doesn't call us back? What's what's our next day? So no, no, she she's gonna call back. So 430 leticia leaves for the day and 10 minutes later this lady calls back. He calls back. Oh, it was actually the husband I had already give given the salesperson some latitude on pricey just in case I know I'm contradicting myself about discounting But I'm like, okay, if they're hedging we can do a little bit for okay No, it wasn't necessary because the guy was intent on paying the full price Because they wanted leticia or somebody like her to be in their home Clean that home And do it on a recurring basis So, you know, I don't know if we're on to something there or not And you know, we may do that in some other different in different scenarios Because of that means creating a blue ocean where we're getting these customers who we really want Who are paying for value of the quality? Then so be it because I think when we're we we can make those types of margins on the on the clean You know we're more than make it up but So I think that's you know, my my my message I guess is that all of these things from When you see Ted lasso to when you see the open and closed mindset to wanting to create a blue ocean And then everything in between all of those things have to make They have to Make a picture in your mind of how that looks and if you can't see it you need to just Draw it out draw. What does this look like? How do these things fit together because if you try to do them singularly? I just think you won't have good luck with it. So you have to You really have to have a strategy of how I'm going to take these things and melt them together Well, can you explain a little bit kevin for anybody that hasn't read blue ocean strategy? They might not even know what that means. What what do you mean by blue ocean red ocean? What's what is this? So, you know a red ocean Is the way in which? Business is typically conducted So let's go into business to business environment, right? so We're going to go out and you know, there's a lot of talk in the business I used to be in the waste business There was always a lot of talk about market share Who had what market share and it was like, you know having the trophy if you could gain whatever market share, right? so Well, what do you have to do to get that market share? Because unlike the house cleaning business, there's only a set amount that real Yeah So you got to go you got to go to battle with your competitors and Number of things you can do but a lot of times it boils down to you end up competing on price And are you really at the end of the day? What are you gaining? Okay, I gained market share, but did I lose margin? You know could I had less market share and better market? So the red ocean is getting away from that old school Pounding away at trying to compete with everybody else and what they're doing instead of Trying to look at A blue ocean within the same market the same business But how do we offer it? and You'll see when you when once you get into this book and you go online And see this guy who's a conductor. He's say Of an orchestra, right? and I think he was in Spain, maybe and so going Right to the concert to see the orchestra play Usually You know people are wearing tux and tails and it's a very high level affair. You know It's kind of stuffy In 2024 It's really not what people are Looking for there's probably a very small audience for that But what if we could take Some of that that very same music And what if we could make it look like? a rock concert What if we could have a lighted stage? What if we could have a larger venue? What if we could use color and smoke And what if we could put the orchestra not in black and white? But what if we could put them in vibrant colors? And what if we could have dancers? But we could still play that wonderful music from Beethoven and Bach All of that, right? That's what this guy did and You know, he just took what used to be and just created Something that people wanted because he expanded his marking. He was now attracting teenagers. He was attracting Young adults. He was attracting still some of the old guard So before when you were really just attracting more of the old guard now you had many more people because You know, just think about that an orchestra, right instruments alone you're paying musicians it, you know, it's Who funds all of that, right? So you have to find a way He had to find a way. How could he generate revenue? And he did And that became his blue ocean And there's a lot of examples out there. I mean, there are you know product examples and and There are cervix examples, you know, if you go through you'll be able to find those And I think for everybody as an individual Everyone has to figure out, you know, what is that for us and I I did for a couple of months. I was like, I don't know. I like what would this would this look like and then As we started to get those survey results back and I started reading a little more into it I started to look at where we want to go And where we want to go in our market Then I said, okay, I think This is what we want to try and get to Now, how do we how do we get and that's the stage Got a little clarity but still got work to do and trying to figure it out the rest of the way That um, there's a story in that book that really struck me similar to your orchestra story was about The circuses how back in the day circus cost a quarter Right, and they they were like, how can we you know upgrade the circus and now Nobody pays a quarter to go to Cirque du Soleil Right, then you the new circus you're you're feeling good if you can get out of there for 55 bucks In the paradigm was you couldn't have a circus if you didn't have elephants and tigers and all the expensive And they got rid of all of that And now here we have a brand new type of circus But making a lot more money without the thing that we thought we had to have Right, right. Yeah, crazy We talked a little bit about this idea at foundations too went on our last day tom when we were talking about oh, what do we call that session State of the future the future of the industry the industry. Yeah, and try to We just sort of try to Blue ocean idea things right like what what could things look like how could they be different? It's it's hard if you're not used to thinking that way and If you're used to grinding and working in your business all day doing the same old thing every single day It's really hard to think differently What what else is there? What what could what could there be? stuff No in some regards An advantage that Kevin has he's Coming at this from a little different perspective. He Has it spent the last 30 years in the house cleaning industry. Yeah And lots of different perspectives right navy That's so different right so so many different perspectives And and that they all play together That for me that is always like That's where I like to get my ideas from That outside of what we're doing right now. It's just there's so much more that we could be doing It's such a So many lost opportunities right yeah, and You know again, it's reiterating the How many of these people that we have in our different organizations? And that could even be you know across from where you know, some of your groups are I think some of that happens in some of your groups lives where You know people are sharing different feedback and different information and things that You know that they're doing it and I think there's a wealth of there's a wealth of knowledge out there that could be tapped into for people to Maybe better understanding it allows people to have somewhat of an epiphany to go. Gosh, I haven't thought of it that way before yeah I think it's a big part of why Companies can grow so much bigger so much faster so much easier now You know, there's just a big body of shared knowledge and there are there There's so much more support for everybody right right And you know part of it's the the four minute mile thing nobody could do it until somebody did it and then It's like okay. This is doable. I mean people are going into it without with a different expectation now I'm back to that fixed mindset and growth mindset right carl dwecks Right, and you can't do it What's what's the henry forward saying as well? If you think you can you can if you think you can't you can't that's not right, but Basically the same idea yeah And it's a You know, it's that whole confidence thing and that you know for a lot of years where I was doing assessments I Would just literally tell people look you know this You know this Content you know the subject. I know I don't yes you do. Yes. You do know You know how good you know it. You know how much faith I have in you I'm gonna pay for you to go take the test tomorrow No yeah And again, so you're creating confidence, but you're giving him that push You know they go take the assessment I passed Well, why are you surprised? I'm not surprised I knew you could do it So, you know, then we may have to go do the next one. They're not they're like, okay, I'm ready to take that you know, and it's You know, I I think in part part two, which I'm fortunate. I know they've thought out of time, but You know, you have to be willing to to teach and mentor and coach to be successful in These endeavors, you know, and what we call managing a business because if you leave that part out You're gonna be gonna struggle. Yeah You got to be like Ted lasso I've never seen Ted lasso, but I'm inspired to do so now. Oh my gosh. It's so good Well, when you see me on zoom next I have the Ted lasso locker room is my background my virtual back Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait. Love me some Ted. He's so good And you'll laugh too. So all right, it's funny and inspiring and you loved Ted so much When you're watching Just love him Well, Kevin, this was this was good and a lot of levels and I I see the the the wonderful work you're doing and it's Appreciated by a lot of people, you know, it's uh, we were we're We're making change to the benefit for a lot of folks and uh Ted lasso tie in is kind of cool and yeah Lessons learned there too. So we are at the top of the hour. We are we are Yeah, thanks so much Kevin. Uh, and you saved my bacon here today, too Right. I made a big mistake, but guess what? Goldfish goldfish over here. That's right. Goldfish That's right goldfish Thank you, Kevin. We will Be back next wednesday five o'clock eastern. Thanks everybody. Bye Bye