 George Bruna with the 21 report the European edition we are in Warsaw, Poland, and I'm having a conversation with Nick Kraser. Welcome Thank you. Yeah, so what did you talk about today on stage? It was about the London day game model So that is the way of picking up girls in the street in the mall Cafes during the daytime. So it was a technical presentation like how to do it Yeah, I'm at each stage long. Yeah, is that important for a man? Do you think does that when you give him steps? Does he Does do many men need to be have their hands held in that direction? I mean does it give them confidence to kind of? Take that first step Well, I think an analogy I like use would be say fighting You're gonna make a very reasonable case that just like seducing women fighting is innate It's natural. It's what men are meant to do. Yes, and yet we have boxing. We have Muay Thai We have presumed jiu-jitsu. We have wrestling. There was a ways of doing it And even if a man has a natural aptitude for it He can be better by learning correct technique training is attributes get an experience so that when the key moment of performance comes He's better able to handle a challenge even though the whole behavior is in some way innate and natural and everyone has some aptitude Yeah So yeah, I think the model it helps because all that hard work's been done Yeah, it's the equivalent of going into a boxing class and being taught the correct way to jab and went to jab Right slip and how to counter and you have to improvise Because things aren't always going to go the way that the instructor says Absolutely, and it's not even that everyone will have the same style. So again, if I can push the box and metaphor a bit more is Floyd Mayweather, Jr. Fights different to money pack yo fights different to my Tyson Yes differently, but they all use the same combination of techniques. Yes, they all do technically correct boxing Yeah, but it's like night and day to watch their personal creativity put onto it And then how they react in the moment depending on what their opponents do right and pickups the same So do you do seminars or personal one-to-one coaching? Mostly I'm writing now writing books about it But I do Occasional one-to-one what we call residential coaching where it's a one-week program one-on-one to try to go in field and get the guys Yeah, a lot better. Oh, excellent. Excellent How is this different than? Then what a guy might experience or learn just growing up without it Well a lot of game like the skill sets called game a lot of its counter-intuitive Especially when much of modern society is teaching you the opposite that just compounds the problem. So Attraction so pick up usually we say it's got three different elements three different phases attraction comfort seduction Now most men know how to do comfort normal getting to know each other normally building rapport that is relatively Inki with what people expect but attraction seduction tend to be counter-intuitive. So for example attraction Usually comes from breaking rapport And that feels like taking a big risk. So if a guy is talking to a pretty girl Usually he's gonna be risk averse. He didn't want to piss her off. He doesn't want to make the situation difficult But the problem with that is he's not going to build sexual tension. So two key elements of attraction are teasing and challenging and Men usually have to learn that when they're little kids and they're just throwing stones at the girls They're like that comes naturally, but it gets bred out of them. So that normally by the time they're 20 They don't really know how to do it. So they have to learn What age of man or age range is best appropriate to learn day game? I Think there's a Chinese proverb when's best time to plant a tree best time was 10 years ago set the best times today Yeah, so same thing in game I mean best thing you could possibly have is your father is naturally charismatic and knows game and brings you up Or yes, you go through school in a peer group Which reinforces that but a lot of men don't have that Socialization experience so they got a crack at the textbooks go to the program and right doing the hard work Which is what I had to do right and so then Yeah, I mean the later you start the more set in your ways you are yeah harder It is to change less brain plasticity But the later you start the more confident you are of your place in the world as a man the more gravitas you have So you do have a counter-veiling force which can help but I mean the earlier the better are there any So alright, so learning game. Does that spill over into other areas of life? I mean well, let's say if a guy is a salesman and He learns from you read your book. Is that knowledge going to spill over into his professional life? It seems like game is life Well, yes, although ironically much of the early pick-up artists material came from salesman. Is that right? So a lot of the concepts came from I think it was Hoover vacuum salesman in New York in the 20s, okay Who are doing door-to-door salesman? Yes, because door-to-door is kind of cold approach And they developed their model for example the Ida model. What's it attention interest decision action? Yeah, that is very very similar to the pick-up model. Yeah So the overlap is tremendous. Yeah, because you can make a case that game is just selling where the product is you right? so incredible now what you've got is a feedback loop where salesman can learn from particularly the charisma side of What pick-up teaches you yes, but I think if you really had to break it break it apart I'd say sales came first pick up came second okay in that link excellent So any man could you work with a guy who's 60 years old? Right. Yes, because the way to think of pick-up is it's not do this and you're gonna you know sleep with supermodels Right, that's ridiculous marketing not gonna happen. What it is is it's all SMV sexual market value adjusted. Yes, so Let's say The guy's levels here game will add But he's not gonna get you know a guy who was born six or four who's got himself ripped He's naturally outgoing. He's got a good facial symmetrical facial features He's not gonna reach that guy's level yeah any more than Manny Pacquiao because he's a small guy He's gonna knock out Mike Tyson right no matter how good money Pacquiao is he's just too small and it's the same with SMV is But for most men If they learn game that they're ambitious and they really go for it and they get good at it They're gonna move their level of the level of girl they sleep with up Probably two points on the one to ten scale which for the average man that's winning the lottery What are the points of game? 101 what is if you are talking to someone about just the Basics intro to game. Okay. Well game is Personal charismatic value it is conveying your value Efficiently humorously interestingly So that you make an impression on the girl because it's all about what impression I'm making in the girls mind I'd fancy you to like you and Historically we've always thought game is three elements attraction comfort seduction So attraction make the girl like you make her fancy you sexually as a man comfort is Make her comfortable with you build rapport establish a connection get to know each other calm her energy down then seduction is move it towards sex escalate through physical isolation dark rooms maybe alcohol escalating touch Sexy talk and then you know process of getting around your bed. So those are normally the three Stages or three elements of seduction and of pickup in every model of pickup There's multiple models in some way incorporates those so I Mean to see what are the elements again, you know, I consider it It's value. It's value-added. It's it's what does nature intend for you? It's getting more than that through personal charismatic value, which is a learned skill. Yes Interesting. All right, so let's say a guy Become successful at it The end goal of game is what? Okay, I have to make a distinction here game is a toolbox skill set Whereas pickup artistry of being a player is a lifestyle choice So normally the two things go hand-in-hand especially amongst the younger men You know, they learn game because they want to sleep with a lot of women But there's other men who have different goals, right? They want a wife. They want a long-term girlfriend They want to say They're very busy with their own projects and they want ability to when they want to go get a woman to go get a woman So the two things are different. So you can conceive of Men who are very good at game, but don't often use it Yes, Trump would be a fantastic example of us because he's married Yes, he's got other things to do right and you can also get the the case of a pickup artist who wants to be a player But he has no game. He's just inept right so so you know that these things can be broken out separate So end goals where you got to figure out every man's got to figure out from soft What he wants from life game is the tool kit in which to improve your interactions with women and Make it considerably more likely that you're gonna sleep with hot ones. Okay After a man has a long-term relationship with no plans of going anywhere or he's married is game still important Yeah, you can game your wife. I mean Because game the word is misleading because it brings in and invites nuances like manipulation Yeah, formants. Yeah that you got to keep up some kind of act Yes, but the purpose of learning game and I call it the player's journey You've becoming a player and learning just like the hero's journey from Joseph Campbell is You're making deep level identity change You're changing the very nature of how you interact with people and creating a new normal a new second nature So if you do these behaviors long enough as a performance as a skill set learning with women that just becomes the way you normally treat women and Big part of game is learning to understand women to calibrate from their reactions what they think what they want to understand them To build up healthy mindsets such as abundance and not overreliance on women and boundaries So you don't tolerate the bullshit all of these things can go straight into the patriarch women's family And even with his daughters handling his daughters. So game is a life skill. So it's somewhat Can be misleading that most people who talk about game most of the technology of game came from young players Running around trying to have sex with lots of women. It's got considerably wider Implications and that because it's about managing male-female interactions What are the consequences of not knowing game? Okay, and up performance but simply is Under hitting your coverage it is Sleeping with less women than you could with less attractive women than you could fall into a scarcity mindset Where you hang on to a toxic relationship that you should be out of Allowing bad behavior in a relationship because you don't feel like you have the ability to get new women Because the abundance mentality is not how many women do I have or do I have like five different women? I'm dating abundance is the confidence of knowing you can go out and get more So you can have abundance even if you got zero women because you're currently working on a project and stay away from You know, you can go out and get more. That's abundance and that washes over all Interactions just like a guy who knows how to fight it affects everything He doesn't let a guy bully him in the coffee shop. He doesn't get bullied in the boardroom, right? He knows how to fight doesn't mean he's gonna come to blows But it gives a certain internal steel and internal confidence from knowing you can do it, right and game kind of gives you that intersectional Awesome, and one other thing is also gets you very sharp spot when other men are fucking with you Because it gives you an enhanced social acuity So you get to know through all the theoretical side of the male dominance hierarchy You get to know how different types of men act in different ways to jostle for position Yes, because you've because doing a lot of game as a player is Take you through a very deep Multi-year social immersion project in which you get greater social acuity and that washes over everything So if you don't do it, you're not going to develop your social acuity case Skills as much as you could so game also applies to interacting with men who might be vying for the same woman Yes, it's competitive is you know women have options and It's comp it's competition. There's rivalry. There's a hierarchy of men. There's all different strategies men do So pick up has a whole range for example, there's one concept reason pick up called a mugging It's an acronym AMOG alpha male of group What it means is when men are able to position themselves above you Because general rule is lead the men the women will follow Yes So if you can present yourself as the leader even if it's in a very small fractal situation like in a bar Then the women are naturally going to be more attracted to the leader man than the other men Yes, so some guys coming in and doing things which push you down and push pull him up at your expense That's going to affect your chances with the women in the room So you have to learn how to deal with the men now I deal in day game which tends to be solo You tend to meet girls one-on-one when nobody else is around, you know, they're shopping It's in a mall or in a cafe So you don't have to deal with early interaction a mugging like you would in a bar or nightclub Well, you might be chatting to a girl and some guy comes over puts his arm around you starts fucking with you And steals the girl from you. Yeah, that's not such a threatened a game. Yeah, but you know, there's always Girls always have options. Yeah, you got to be ready for this stuff Who has more options? males or females? I think there's an apex fallacy there is I mean which I used to suffer from is I used to look at hot girls And I think God they have it easy, you know, everyone wants to fuck him They just have go to a nightclub wave their arms about on the dance floor. They get all these offers But it wasn't till I saw a dating lots of hot young women that I realized a couple of things number one It only lasts so long You know by the time a girl's 23 She's already nervous about the 18 year olds coming through behind her who are going to steal a limelight by the time She's 30. She's really struggling and if she's 40 There's a really serious risk that no one gives a shit about her except a family and if she hasn't got a family That's a problem. So Girls can get it hard. So if you only focus on hot girls, which are themselves only a minority of the female population If you only focus on hot girls at their best in their prime in an environment like a nightclub, which is designed for them You can get the false impression that girls have a really easy of tons of options Okay, then there's also the mix between sexual market value marriage market value is it's I Could look at a girl on a dance floor and say I actually could fuck any guy here God isn't so easy after work for it, but she doesn't want to fuck every guy there like it's a male Projection to think that girls want casual sex like men want casual sex Sometimes they do some certain girls do but most of them don't so they look at all these men around them as a nuisance Yes, or as you know the way you might look at pickpockets people trying to take something off you You know the creditors the way, you know a rich person might look at all hangers on that are trying to come in They're entourage and fleece them so you know girls have their own problems, and I was because pregame I wasn't very good with girls. I normally only saw women on the cold end of rejection when they weren't interested in me It's not until I start dating them that you know you start to see this Yeah, so I'd say I think things balance out I mean if women never got old if they never got ugly then they'd be absolutely insufferable forever But because they you know they have this fear of getting old and ugly and they know they got to lock the man down at some point Before they lose their purchase power You know it gives them humility So I'd say it's very cool. How important is a man's appearance? I mean you're a trim fellow. Thank you your your clean cut Not everyone is trim Let's think about maybe the guy that's carrying 20 to 50 extra pounds He doesn't feel good about himself. Can he be taught this? Yeah, but he's got to lose that weight. It's um, I mean pick up is SMV adjusted Okay, the better you the better you look The better position you start from it's as simple as that and I mean it's not purely looks right like if you had a very Supportive traditional good upbringing, so you don't have a lot of mental things to work through You also start from position, you know some good looking guys had horrible childhoods So they got different problems. Yeah, and that's can be arguably harder to unpick So it all starts from SMV and I say game is value-added. It's not a magic bullet So if I get a student who's 50 pounds overweight, it's an even worse Let's say he dresses like shit and doesn't have a proper haircut. You know, I'm gonna I'm not gonna say it this guy Okay, let's just go do our sets and say look like there's nothing you can do this week on your weight You know, you've got to learn how to die. You've got to get into that gym You got to get your hair cut get some proper clothes, you know present yourself Show the women who just look at you that you treat yourself with respect that you have a very high Estimation of yourself and you know, you don't mind for going the extra slices of pizza. You don't mind Cut back the booze you get yourself in the gym. You train until you're making noises like a woman's tennis match, you know It's like Game is really really hard cold approach. It's really really hard and there's a ton of rejection So I would say that it's real folly to just make it even harder. Yeah by letting the rest of your life Go be easy Is there an ideal place to practice game? Yes, central and Eastern Europe is I mean, it's it's all about the market. Yes is I mean, it's a sexual marketplace and some markets are better than others So, I mean, there's plenty of reason I'm from the UK. I'm English. There's plenty reasons to say in the UK for life Yeah, right, but if you just want to chase skirt, it's a terrible place Yeah, because the quality is appalling. Yeah, English women are appalling. Yeah, I mean speaking generally. Yeah, so my advice is normally You know with men movies with women. I tell them move West Yeah, right because the dynamics of the market are just different. Yeah, and for day game specifically Not all forms game just a game day game relies on cities If say a million people or more, which have a centralized hub, you know A main shopping street a main malls main park area a lot of pedestrians Because they're gonna what you need is footfall coming past you and from which you can create the opportunities And so for example, you know, the West Coast market doesn't really have that because it built up around the motor car So LA is not a good place to dig in. I mean there are places around the beach and stuff You can do it, but it's not as good as say New York and New York is not as good as Warsaw Yeah, I was good as Moscow or as good as Prague or as good as Riga for example. Yeah, and then also Central and Eastern Europe just has this sweet spot where The culture in the economy and the genetics are such that there's a a lot of pretty women Yeah, pretty feminine women and that the culture is accepting of them receiving male advances from cold approach in a way That's say Morocco isn't yeah, so yeah, that means I mean Morocco a bit horrible place today game, right? Yeah, I mean all the bodies covered up, so you don't know which girls hot Yeah, if you open them, they can't speak your language And if you do talk to them their brothers come along and stab you I mean, it's it's a horrible place for digger compared to being in a mall in central London With loads and loads of hot tourists going past all pairs babysit as university students Yeah, all from a Western culture. It's quite anonymous. They can talk to you. Nobody knows you're talking to them You know, it's completely different world So if a man's in a market where you know when he walks around he doesn't see a lot of hot girls around Either do something different today game. I don't do day game do some other way to get girls or move How can people find out more about you and what you do my website crowds a pua.com That's my main source. I got a whole bunch of books out which are on Amazon. Just search Nick Krauser. Yeah If they're interested in day game, I'd suggest they start with the book day game mastery It's textbook of day game. Okay, that's on Amazon Oh, if they want the video of me in field showing how to do it like with actual live interactions with girls And then analyzing it. There's a protocol day game overkill which does that those are probably the two best starting points. Okay What are your thoughts about the convention so far? I've enjoyed it. I've had a bit of a over the past I've had a little bit of a love-hate relationship with it. I've got a few online arguments with a couple of people. Yeah, but now that I'm here. I've enjoyed it. Yeah Particularly, I like the talks today. Yeah, I was there. I thought very highly of Richard Granon's talk Yeah, I've followed him for a couple of years on YouTube and It let most talk. I like that. I wasn't expecting it. I don't know much about him But I really enjoyed it. So yeah, yeah, I'm having a good time Excellent Excellent. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you much George. Thank you What was your experience so far with the 21 convention? Oh I was dead. I was dead professional all across the board really good energy with a lot of people and I just like this is very positive positive direction this George this is a this has been a first-class event. It's fantastic. You guys were in a really tight ship I've been to a lot of conventions over the course of my business career And I can tell when things are well run and when things aren't and this is a very well run operation. I was very impressed It's pretty incredible to see where Anthony's brought it Especially from last year, which is my first year here to see the upgrades. He's made it's been incredible I've got my notebook and with every speaker. I've written down about two or three lines Under each of the speakers of just just the key prime stuff that I got that's good. That's great It's very surreal man. Yeah, really enjoying it. I'm happy to live in such an era Where is such a thing like this is possible? I have never seen a group of guys like this a group of 200 men were focused Squared away and working on their values just never met a bigger group of wonderful guys It's kind of neat because I've been to a fair amount of conventions in my day But you never see one where the guys like here You can just see Ed Latimore talking to Tanner about boxing. Yeah, you just sit down And then you tell your boxing experiences everybody's kind of pinging off each other. It's yeah It has been fantastic and it's been four days of guys all on the same page working in the same direction Fascinating meeting some of the people Hearing their stories. Yeah, you got people traveling from other parts of the world to come here just to see some of the speakers That's amazing. The thing is impressed me. Everybody here is very serious. Yeah, they're taking it close to their heart What a great convention. Thanks George