 Let me begin. Let me welcome everybody. Let me welcome you to the future transform I'm very glad to see you and hopefully hear from you all today My name is Brian Alexander. I'm the forms creator host and cat herder And I'll be leading you through the next hour as we explore one aspect of the future of higher education Thank you for coming and for making yourself available for this hour. I really appreciate it I'm glad to be here and glad that I'm glad to be able to share whatever we've learned here Well, I'm really looking forward to it now when you say here is that North Carolina and Credo Incorporated? That is North Carolina and Credo Incorporated. Oh, great. Great. Well, let me ask I I ask every guest a few things in order to get them Introduced to the forum population and one of them I'd like to ask is what are you going to be working on for the next year? So the rest of 2019 early 2020 what what are the big projects looking forward? Well for me personally The big projects right now are some of the things that are coming out of the writing of the book presidents asking for advice I do a lot of strategic advising through technology with presidents across the country and so that's a big piece for me seeing how the pieces of the book are impacting presidents in their everyday work and the kinds of things they need to be courageous about right now Well, we're gonna be talking about that quite a deal quite a bit So are you mostly working as a consultant and as a writer and a speaker? Yes, all three Oh, I bet I bet are any presidents lucky enough to be mentored by you. Yes I do have a group of presidents into they work individually with me and they do that on a monthly basis and And it's wonderful to be able to have that forum to talk with them Specifically without anyone else around them They don't have many spots where they can talk and just sort of let out what their worries are about Next decade and the things to come Wow, well, that's terrific Good for you and good for them and good for higher education which can benefit from this For the next few minutes, I'd like to ask you about pivot and I'd like to ask a whole bunch of questions and friends if you haven't had a chance to read it Well, we're gonna be talking about some of the books major ideas So please respond to the ideas if you have had a chance to read this book Please jump in and again remember in the bottom of the screen that white script which has those different options please click the raised hand if you'd like to join us appear on stage and Type in a question using the question mark if you'd like us to raise that So to begin with if I can ask the the book is very very moving The passion that you that you show is really exciting. It's incredibly accessible very very clearly written It's a real I think of a kind of field guide to transform in colleges and universities Let me ask How did you select the four colleges and universities that you picked as case studies? Well, that's a good question I think what we were looking for is not we weren't looking for colleges that everybody saw Already as successful We were looking at colleges that really had to be courageous in making some pivotal Decisions to get where they are right now and these four colleges had all had all been in that category They had all been at a place where they knew that they needed to take a stand To be who and what they wanted to be so that's how we we chose them And these four colleges are from across the United States and they each represent a different institutional type Which is pretty exciting. Yes, they do private and public and small and medium size I'll private because that's where we focus at Crado, but But in size very different very good for you get a geographically distributed as well Yes So we begin with you know thinking about your recommendations one of yours that I find Seems so obviously right that I I feel almost embarrassed that I have to say this to people but is you Recommend that we redesign colleges and universities around the student Treating the student is kind of the focus of what we And and you'd think that doesn't have to be said but but it really does so let me ask first What distracts most colleges and universities from being so student-centric now and what can they do to break out of those bad habits? Well, I think as you as you think about that, I don't know if the word would be distraction I think there's a historical piece to this, you know, we were in a different time in higher education We were seen in our colleges and universities as the holder of the knowledge And that that was a different time now because of technology. There are other holders of the knowledge In fact, as we've said in the book, you can hold an awful lot of knowledge in your pocket If you've got a telephone So I think is as well when it all started in higher education We were teaching the students that was very clear and then as as we came through the years It seemed like we had to have so many supportive pieces around Around it so many administrative pieces so many financial aid issues so many other things that sometimes we slip into being Administrative in that way and we begin to design systems around faculty and staff and and sometimes around the general public too And so So we want to be a credo particularly and I think Mark and I Mark Lombardi's the Co-author of the book we felt very strongly that we had to be a loud voice to say Let's head back to really thinking about the students And as you know students today are very different than students Have been historically and so we needed to be reminded of that too what this student needed in this time Your book does a really good job. I think I'm identifying some of those transformations the demographic changes the economic changes in students as well as students career expectations for Technology and and really for service of being more and more closely integrated into campus Do you feel that Again friends, I have a whole stack of questions to ask Joanne, so please don't let me run the table. I would love to hear from all the rest of you It seems like most faculty who work in higher education are committed to teaching on in different levels I mean at most universities most colleges Have teaching as highly valued as an enterprise We think about community colleges state schools liberal arts colleges and even a research institution There's an increasing drive to focus on the importance of instruction And yet and yet you have a whole chapter talking about ways of changing how faculty think about their role in the institutions What are some of the challenges you see with faculty in rethinking colleges and universities? I mean surely they should be the lead players in any kind of transformation Well, they should but as we've said they this is big change for them because in the day when knowledge Rested in them and in the stacks in the library You can all remember many of you the stacks in the library Teaching is a bit different now our faculty members have got a shift to a different role of facilitator of learning to make sure that all of the technology and all the information available to our students That they learn ways to filter it that they learn ways to use it correctly And so that's just been a little bit of a shift For faculty and a shift in learning for you and me too. We learn things differently than we ever have you often give the example of Of the those old twin lifebooks that my husband used to have to learn how to fix a water pipe or do whatever and And now he goes to youtube So we're all learning in different ways and so that is where faculty need to to shift and they know it They know it and I it's hard. It's very hard for them because it's a it's different It's why I love what we wrote in the book about new tools that they can use that the ability for us to have some Instructional learning designers and people like that who can help them put together the more experiential ways to get the information They now disseminate I didn't call faculty resistant I'm a faculty of advocate But reluctant might be a better word to jump in because the tools are necessary to To do what they have to do reluctance and And also perhaps over committed doing all kinds of things and on top of that having to transform Learning designers who else plays a major role in helping faculty change On campus. Well, you'd be surprised to know what a big role students play in that they're They're challenge. They're the challengers right now. They as they sit in the classroom and use their Laptops and they use their phones and they use their tablets to get more information about what's going on Um faculty members they all have to adjust. I find myself having to adjust to that that they're not looking at me Sometimes, you know that they're looking at other pieces. So our students are great challengers They're pushing the edges to say learn this because I learned better this way and and I love that I love the relationships. You know, we're always going to know In our in higher education that the relationship between a faculty member and a student is a very very Um strong relationship in the success of their learning. It's how it's going to change over these next years yes And so what what role do you see the library playing in this transformation? Well, libraries have to change and many of them are I'll have to say I'm pleased to see How quickly some of that has caught on now there'll be there are places where it hasn't but libraries have to become more resource centers They certainly have to be what we call Here third spaces where students want to go to be with each other because so much of the work Now is collaborative and we know why Our our employers are screaming for people who are more collaborative who can do projects together who can Who can work together communicate together and come out with solutions together? So we want spaces where where they can do that When they're on campus and libraries are moving in that direction. I love to walk in them now They're just beautiful how they're set up in round tables and in small rooms and the technology is there And they're all talking and doing project work. It makes me want to have gone back and gone to college at this time That's a great feeling. Maybe that's what we all need to have that kind of vibe. Do you um And that connects again back to pedagogy You know i'm One of the forum themes that has persisted for the years we've done this is inter-institutional collaboration We've talked with many leaders of inter-institutional projects From unison to state systems And yet they all voice this great challenge that it is very difficult to get colleges and universities to play nice with each other We're in many ways incentivized to be fierce competitors with each other In the world you describe That's a world that's increasingly competitive demographic forces in particular seem to Heighten the desire for colleges to compete with each other. In fact, did you see a few days ago the SUNY systems started advertising in alaska? Um saying, you know, if you're worried about the university of alaska, please, you know, we're online and we're available for you Yes, so I wonder in in the world of pivot. What role does inter-institutional collaboration play? And what are the real benefits for colleges and universities to work with each other? Now that's a great question, brian You know partnerships are going to be part of the future All kinds of partnerships internal partnerships external partnerships corporate partnerships hospital partnerships and college partnerships But you're you're going to drive me back now to talk about the major issue and the way we start the book Which is with leadership Because the leadership of each of our institutions is going to have to learn how to how to collaborate and put those things together in a way where Where individual college egos if you want to say are put aside and the and the needs of the students Are put aside and you know, it takes some digging I will I will hear colleges say to me or presidents say to me It's it's amazing that I can't have a partnership with a college right down the road But that's layer one Layer two is how do you discover what the right problem with the right partnership is? How do you see what they have that I need and what I have that they need and go to the next level On this and so it's one thing to talk about partnerships. It's another thing to work at it and it's hard work It is hard work There are a couple now that I see sort of coming along that I get excited about I'll maybe talk again about them in another forum when they've come to more Prohibition but the reason I get excited is because the presidents and the boards and the leadership teams are talking in level two language Saying what do you have that's good that I love Instead of talking about the competitive issues and how can we share that? nice nice we had a president of a small college in michigan Last year who was talking about a three college consortium for teaching classes on media studies Which was really really smart And really helped each of those colleges do well in the state. That's really a challenge for higher education Yes, and when it works it really works and when it doesn't work it draws a lot of time away from So much work that has to be done So readiness is huge on this issue being ready to do it being willing to know that compromise Is going to take place and you know college leadership Is is bigger than a president. It's a board. It's a faculty senate It's a cabinet and so it's not a matter of just two people agreeing this. This takes extraordinary skill For someone to lead people through this big of a collaboration You you see I mean you you just teased us. I mentioned a couple of collaborations that you have to tell us about another time But do you Do you have any any examples of inter-campus collaborations that really stand out for you that actually work? No Well, there are numbers of denominations church denominations that work together and bring together people to do this There are numbers of geographical organizations We we certainly love our independent college organizations across the country that we see collaborating to bring leadership training in and To bring some of their purchasing power together So we we see lots of those going on. It's the college to college ones that are just a little bit more difficult Which is really can be very very challenging. We um friends I I have still more questions, but I would like to hear from you So as we're talking about these options and some of the ways forward think about for example As join mentioned the importance of leadership if you can think of an example of really creative leadership That has helped reform a college or our university Why don't you raise it as a topic or mention it as evidence or if you have an example of a possibility That hasn't yet come to fruition Why don't you raise that as a question and again you can use the raised hand button or the question mark button to share um You mentioned technology a little earlier and I'd like if you could expand on that For a lot of universities a lot of colleges Technology is often seen as a cost center Something that is not cheap and that doesn't seem to be right a competitive advantage Um, it seems like not doing technology well can be a disadvantage Um, what are key role to focus? What are some of the ways that colleges and universities can really pivot on technology? Are there particular technologies we should be looking at? Well, I think it all drives back to uh to technology and leadership that technology is what's changed learning Technology is what's given us tools. We never had before to predict And predicting can be very helpful in being able to put the models together for creativity and new learning and new programs in Colleges, so it's giving us all that and then and then there's the the technology that our students use You know, should I be a tablet university or a tablet college or should I not that kind of uh technology? I think what we need established over time and I think we're almost all there now is that the very first thing A college or university needs to talk about is to make sure they're wireless As at the highest levels that it needs to be because our students want wireless everywhere they go They're very connected to that technology. You're right. Um technology can be a black hole In the finance area in a college. So I would say and I have said I think in in both of the books that Technology needs to be very very closely linked to mission It just doesn't need to be bought because it's the newest thing. It needs to be researched and put together um It's a huge investment and a strategic investment You might have uh, you might have read in the book pivot and I think this is an important piece that Sometimes technology is one of those things that we have to think about investment in first before we do the rest of the budget Technology strategic growth initiatives Financial aid needs have to be sort of central and then the budget comes out from there But that stretches the edge of some of the traditional things we do So that's one of the that change elements that we run into I really liked your um, uh the section No margin no mission. Yeah, that's been a popular phrase. I'll tell you there are a lot of phrases in those books I wanted to catch on but I had no idea that one would catch on as much as it has but it's absolutely right the The vision of many colleges becomes a financial vision and not that heartfelt Passionate vision that we all have for the future of fire ed well, that really makes a big difference do you um You know when you think about technology This brings to rise the the topic of um, but we used to call it distance learning It'll be sometimes just called online learning right now And that's the numbers for that are rising across the country and at some point Maybe not as soon as clayton christians than predicted but at some point We will see a rough parody of the number of students wholly taking classes online As well as those who are wholly taking classes face to face Do you have any recommendations for campuses as they approach distance learning? or online learning I can't um I am absolutely convinced that every campus has got to address this issue. I will say that that Distance learning we've got to get over that kind of prejudice We have about being easier not as good And we have to come to the point where it's going to integrate with everything else that we do in their education right now Distance learning isn't just somebody who takes a bunch of courses and never goes to the campus distance learning Now their online learning is going to be about what is the package? What is the portfolio of how a student completes their college education? A traditional student may have many online opportunities so that they can go in three years instead of four years To college. It's we don't think uh, I think when we think about um online learning and distance learning We tend to go towards is it easier or is it harder than the learning we're used to Instead of understanding what it means to access It's amazing what it means to access And I don't know I say this often, but I can't think of the time in our country when Education for all is more important. We just all need to have a broader picture of Of the facts and and online learning gives us access to that so It's it's big. I think what I say to colleges now who fight it still When they fight and say we never want to be encouraged that does this we're going to do traditional learning I'm not sure we have that choice anymore our mission's a mission to educate america And to educate the young in america and adults in america is going to demand that we all understand Distance learning and online learning. So that's why we've talked about it so much in the In the pivot book to try to jump over that mountain of prejudice that we sometimes see with it We understand and we should also practice. It sounds like We have questions that have just started piling in and I just want to share a couple of them really Here's one from civil Who asks in the colleges you studied How was open education resources or oer being used if at all and do you see the open movement as a big part of education's future? Great question civil I wanted to say a little bit more about that tell her to give me a specific example. Okay, um civil Would you let me to put you on stage? Let me know I can bring you up and we can have a Uh You can join us on stage with video. Just let me know in the chat box if you can um And while she's answering that we have another question that came up Um, which is uh here. Let me just publish this. This is from excellent rock sand rizkin Who asks what are private universities doing right to attract students who really can't afford the cost of a private education? In a time when free college seems very appealing lower student death Well, they're gonna have to look at that we're we're all um, I think we said and I've said every time I've spoken on the pivot book that we are all going to have to look at pricing structure and affordability um everybody who is out there and including You brine at you we all know that what we're facing right now is an issue Where college cost has gotten higher and higher because scholarshiping cost has gotten higher and higher and it's a cycle And so we don't get to use all of the money we collect for tuition for the mission And so we we're gonna have to correct that there's going to be a correction that's going to have to come in the meantime What private colleges have got to do is focus on value proposition And I can't see that I can't say that strongly enough. There is the sacrifices that Families in america make to send their students to college Are so high these days that we we have got to deliver to them a value proposition that will serve their success In the future and not just their learning success. They're personal success. Their success is a whole How do we how do we when we let them go at the end of whatever time it takes them to graduate? How do they serve their community? How do they uh, how do they serve the educational pieces of the community? What do they do to in their jobs? How do they succeed in their jobs? So If I had one word two words to say about what private colleges can do right now They've got to strengthen their value proposition But I will say right behind it that the the finances needed to do that these days are sometimes soaked up by The scholarshiping issues that we have so we got a number of things that have to cycle around before we get to that I will tell you that the colleges that are thriving The value proposition is strong clear innovative and compelling That's a great answer to a very rich question. But are you talking about? Classes and the ability to get education openly and free. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, sort of um, oh we are it seems to be all over twitter lately and Brian just shared an inside higher ed article with me about the decline In textbook Need it seems like so I was just curious if those colleges you had studied We're looking into that to help out with costs for students and include and then it also improves, you know access and inclusivity for them um, I just I get this feeling that the open movement is really going to take off when We look at how education is getting so expensive or especially higher ed and if we Not to get too political, but if we don't find a way to Maybe make it free or you know lower tuition students are going to start seeking out more MOOCs the massive open online Courses as well So just like the open movement is on this brink of like something crazy You know not crazy, but something happening with all the The textbooks that are probably and then you see too I've been following on twitter that a lot of these like big Pearson Publishing companies kind of tell that they're freaking out because I don't think that their textbooks are going to be used anymore At least that's my theory in the next couple years So I was just wondering if you had seen that in those colleges I know that they're private maybe the students have more money than my students do or whatever But I was just curious really I did not see it in the study of those colleges But I will be quick to say that there could be people from those colleges On this broadcast and and other colleges that are using it and I would love it if they would Would jump in it did it did not come up around the case studies of those four colleges I could certainly predict that it's going to it will be another one of those things that will increase our Frustration about delivering education at At private colleges it will increase the frustration, but again that responsibility is ours We've we've got to make this affordable and we've got to make the value strong enough That our students will Will see it clearly and the outcomes you know that we've got to make those outcomes very clear What happens when you have that so? Not something I ran across civil in my exploration You've got to remember that exploration was about a year and a half ago to get that book written So it was not as much in the public eye then We'll see thank you so much. That's a great question And thank you for joining us on video. You can see friends. That's really easy to come up on stage And to ask us questions The They just were also if we're new to the forum We should know that open is a theme that we've explored many times in the past We have several different Sessions looking at the creative commons license project that open access and scholarly publication The economics of open education and in effect Joanna was just talking to friends who mentioned visiting a small university where they were just celebrating the Some years of use of open educational resources And the way they celebrated was by having a sheet cake in the shape of a one million dollar bill Because that was how much money they said they'd saved their students over that period of time Oh, wow. I love that which is uh, yeah, it's hard to hard to go wrong with that Uh, we have another question that came in here And this is from michael meeks who asked your thoughts read the idea of universities as knowledge creators Yes, we disseminate knowledge and yes, we have some roles knowledge gatekeeper But what role do universities have to create knowledge? Good question, michael Yeah, you know the other the thing I would say about that michael too is Not just universities but more and more we're watching our students create knowledge We're watching undergraduate research and we're watching experiential learning brings solutions to the table that only faculty were bringing in past years And so this is uh to me. This is one of the exciting things You know, we are right here beside elan university Uh here in north carolina and I just noticed yesterday that there was an open forum where 40 students were Presenting their research in certain ideas. So I I I love the enactus what it does on the campus Campus is now in the community engagement. So what I see that's so exciting Is knowledge is getting created at the undergraduate level where we always saw it as a phd Peace that we and and now we see solutions coming to the table from students as well as Faculty so I do think we have a role But I would say michael that that role is shifting towards not just the the faculty you publish The faculty you encourage students to find some of these solutions in this knowledge and and I love that piece of it Well, that's a great answer and just another plug for the forum. We had the wonderful peter felton from elan university as a guest About a year and a half ago talking about students as creators Which was a really really great topic Thank you for asking about knowledge creation We have another question as well questions just coming in thick and fast And this is from the policy warrior doherty at georgia fox george fox and she asks What specific evidence do you see in budgets for professional development? That indicates institutions are approaching a breakthrough and fundamentally changing how we equip learners for a success That is a great question because And and I and I really am glad you asked it because I want to say out loud that There is a disconnect sometimes between the expectation That faculty and staff would do something differently and the training available to faculty and staff to do something differently and I do see that disconnect at some point and i'll say again marcus Said this so beautifully in the in our book where he talks about zero-based budgeting and he becomes He's passionate about it We had a number of high High energy discussions about it because he believes that those kinds of things growth initiatives training initiatives strategic initiatives for change All have to be budgeted before we budget all the things we've always budgeted I mentioned that a little bit before but that means we've got to get more efficient That means our faculty ratios have got to be at a level where they're affordable to us That means that we've got to do some cleanup around the campus in order to get that I'll call it the core of the budget, which is the meaty place where all those things happen. So you're right To to say that sometimes that doesn't happen in the budget. We have seen it I will say that i'm hardly ever critical of private colleges But I will say it is certainly one of our downfalls that we We demand we're demanding some things that we don't fund at times Unfunded mandates that's a Well-known problem right there Friends just don't let you know that somehow this become 243. So we have about 13 minutes left And we're going to start nudging the topic a bit more towards the future of education even still further So this is a good time to bring in More questions and more thoughts and again, you want to think as well about your own institutions where you work If you are at a library if you're a faculty member if you're a dean if you're a trustee You're where these where these challenges that join us before us how they can play out We have one question that popped up immediately From michael meeks who is deciding to become the great question answer to ask her the day Who asks would you please speak more to the issue of faculty ratio? I'm assuming michael that means faculty student ratio. But let me know So I brought it up. So now I guess I have to speak to it. Um It's interesting when you look at budgets to look at faculty student ratio and it's it's important for all of us to remember that This does not mean how many people are in the classroom that you have to teach That's a public education issue when we talk about ratios are I mean public and Secondary education More what I'm talking about is in the total budget How many full-time faculty are there to teach how many students and what we see and this is what we will see often Is with enrollment issues like we have Enrollment can go down and faculty positions can stay the same That's one piece we see another piece we see is that new programs are added But there's not a lot of review of programs that may not be appropriate and necessary and relevant to the future We call this often we call this academic efficiency In a lot of ways is how are we looking at the total learning picture to see just what we need now how many faculty we need to do it right now and And what are the programs that are relevant? You know, this is going to be difficult over years to figure out how what programs we need to Train people for jobs. We don't even know about right now That's the future friend piece of this So we're in a mode. I think as we work with our colleges and universities to say There needs to be a constant turn of evaluation and assessment of whether programs are working Whether they're filling whether they're relevant to the new jobs and that didn't used to happen in the old days We didn't have to worry about that so much. These were the majors and these were the jobs for a long time So that's what I mean, michael about faculty Um student ratio. It's not so much about You don't you can put more people in those classrooms. That is not what it's about It's about getting about right sizing to the place where you can do relevant education well Hmm Have you heard the acronym vuca before? No You know first to volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity And the idea is you know, we're heading towards vuca world Which is Yeah, it's a it's a good excuse to describe the The world of jobs that we're heading into it One quick question before I bring up another guest Or another questioner, which is When you describe programs, they're doing well and programs are doing as well Is this a time for increased academic program prioritization? Where more colleges have to go through that exercise to figure out what's enrolling more students what's enrolling fewer? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, but Um colleges will have to be very careful not to eliminate programs that are mission central Um and to and not to use only a financial measure to make a decision like that There are numbers of ways to look at that decision. The national market is one financial is another Mission central is another and I will say this primary because I want to say this before I have to leave you the liberal arts are still Crucial to the higher ed we do the soft skills that we teach in the liberal arts are the same skills employers are screaming for I just think we're going to have to learn how to connect the dots better Between our our liberal arts curriculum and the way we talk about it and what the world needs right now because Those words don't resonate anymore like they used to We're going to have to learn to say those things and and show that we're really making those skills happen in different ways So that that's going to be important program prioritization and core gen ed Horses are also they all have to be looked at This is a revolution in higher education It is it is a revolution. Let me um, let me bring up a fellow revolutionary. Um, my good friend Stephen airman Let me ask you a question and uh, and and already out loud and and see if you can uh, Nudge your mic and back into life Um, and this is a great question. Uh in theory a looming challenge Like less discretionary money or falling enrollment could energize some institutions to pivot Does this looming challenge feature in some of your cases or all of them? Yes, there has been a looming challenge Stephen at the center of every one of those pivots um, and really I would say For most of them, it's been falling enrollment. Um, which results in no margin and no ability to um to make missions, so um, I think it it has really that has been a A piece in every single one of them. Um, and there's you know, what they what it's pressed us to do is I will say this in years past and I've been in this a long time I would preach about incremental change I really would preach about the fact that get a little bit better here a little bit better here a little bit better here And have a thriving college It was really a lot about what the first book was about But now we just know that we got to do some leapfrogging there needs to be innovative change And every one of these colleges Put their head put their heads together and said We see a challenge and we see it looming, but let's solve it differently than we ever have before And they asked the question. Why do we do things the way we have always done them? And how could we do them in a more relevant way to the future? And that's why we see the examples we're seeing coming out of those colleges where They're doing core curriculums differently. They're they're building partnerships differently They're fundraising differently. They're their value propositions are stronger their career Opportunity centers are stronger. So there are a lot of ways where they leaped Does that make sense instead of little incremental steps? They leaped and then they filled in all the infrastructure underneath after they knew what the right thing to do was That was what was most exciting about talking to all of them. I mean if we are in a VUCA world in fact, then we have quite a bit of There's a call for a lot of bold action and bold imagination Um, and speaking of boldness we have more bold questions. Um, including this is one from uh, john henry steitz um That's uh, uh Let me pull it on the screen John asks data shows that high-rate is relying more and more adjunct faculty as opposed to tenure line or full-time faculty In your vision of a new university is this trend good bad or irrelevant? Well, like all things we're going to have to find balance with it, but I will say that we Um, it's another one of those words We're going to have to stop being prejudiced about because what I like to call adjunct faculty are experienced professionals now and that's the term I use when I talk about it because It's an experienced professional who is currently in the workplace Facing all the challenges that our students are going to face Has a different lens and a different angle to talk to our students than full-time faculty members who have been there Lots of years now. I'm saying we need both and so balances the issue But I think we it was almost a dirty word for a while to say the word adjunct And I would love everybody at least listening today to begin to think of that in different Um in different ways now when you think about full-time faculty, especially when we think traditionally You think about people who are around all the time have time to spend with students But if you look at some of the research in adult education You will find that they believe their adjunct faculty is around for them And they believe that the technology has allowed a close relationship with them So I'm not as afraid about adjunct faculty as I am about several other things Right now that we're facing in fact, I think they could infuse us with relevance if we choose them train them And appreciate them in the right ways That's a that was a solid question one of the questions I was hoping to ask and it was a really provocative answer Um I'm a little conscious of time and there's some more questions. I'm gonna bring another one This is from ben heland who says two-thirds of students go to college get a good job 40 percent of grads are in jobs that don't require bachelors Amazon spent seven hundred million dollars on training mostly outside of higher ed perspective an employer partnership Excuse me employer partnership Good question Yeah, I I agree that it's one of the reasons our value propositions have to be strong is because it isn't as Necessary to have a four-year traditional college education to have a successful life as it used to be There are many people doing their own training and I will say and I'll say it out loud and not be ashamed The community colleges are doing an unbelievable job An unbelievable job. Yes, so we're gonna have to learn to partner with them better But the the other piece is that We that value proposition of a traditional college traditional student college education Has got to come closer to match what they're going to find in the outside world than it is right now Hmm Well, I don't have to elaborate that you you all know what I mean by that We are going to have to load it with experiences that will prepare those students for life in this world Which is a lot different than the world we lived in which brings to mind the next question perfectly Michael makes follows up by saying well How can we save liberal arts when gen z students are more pragmatic and job-oriented? Who will save liberal arts? Great question Well, I do believe we've got enough people out there Michael who are trying to save it So I feel like they're there and they will save it but I will tell you what I tell all of the Faculty groups that I talk to saving it doesn't mean fighting for it. It means Connecting it better to what our students need today. So saving it may mean changing it a bit And making it more relevant in a lot of ways. So the fight should not be as As strong as the work we have to do right now to make it make it relevant This is giving us a picture of a different university one that's more focused on students more focused on experience more focused on workplace as workplace changes Stephen airman Flings back another question and this is a really really practical question It's one that I wanted asked to How did the colleges that are being pressed so hard? How do they get the discretionary money to pivot? I mean was this through the extraordinary coincidences or did they take steps that other colleges can replicate? yeah So I said a little bit about that with the zero base budgeting But I will say a little bit more about it now because this might be the last thing I get to say I want to make sure it comes out There has never been a time when leadership has been more important in our colleges and universities courageous leadership But also the ability to inspire a large group of people to go from one place to another We're going to have to change And change doesn't come because I talk at the forum or I write a book on pivot It becomes because the leaders of a college or university are strong enough To change the culture to bring the culture along in a way that they feel safe valued And where they can I think they're going to have everybody will have to learn how you transfer skill sets into new arenas Without threatening people along the way so The budget is will not be the issue if we can be continue to be attractive to people who want to learn We will have the revenue to do what we want to do But we will not be attractive to people who want to learn if we don't have vibrant centers of education And knowledge where everyone is trying hard to support each other They're in one vision and the culture Is that we all move together in an accountable way towards that and then the money will be there It will be there But that's this value proposition and it doesn't just happen because somebody dictates it It happens because somebody has the courage and the vision to inspiring in an inspiring way lead it Well, I have to say that listening to you is very very inspiring You're giving us a real sense of Of where this can go I have to say Somehow we are at the end of our hour And you have ended on an incredible inspiring note a very high note and I have to thank you Thank you very much for for taking the time for answering all of our questions Where can people find you when they need to Learn more where can they find when they want to learn more about the credo or about your work? Well, they can find me and and other very talented people here at credo at um on our website and That information is in the book too to be able to find us crater credo higher ed.com That's my email address and there's several of others of us that are here that we can direct you to but I feel honored that you chose To speak to me today and I wish I could see all those little worry faces So I knew who was out there. Um, but if I know you hello for today and if I don't Thank you for listening Well, thank you, and we're glad we could see your face and hear your important voice We hope to bring you back in the future as credo's work continues to move. Thank you very much. That would be fun Thank you so much prime Well, don't go away friends because we have Information about the next week And I want to make sure that we know that and let me just thank you all for generating questions on a very powerful book Um, so to begin with uh next to either date here wrong. Sorry about that. Um, the uh A week from now they are our typical the thursday event We are going to have a wonderful wonderful guest talking about a very very different project Um, and this is uh, going to be on uh, august 1st. Somehow it will be august Brett Besson is a professor at austin college who has just over the past year stood up an esports program So if you're at all interested in gaming and learning if you're all in particularly esports This is a guy who is exhausted for doing all this work a brilliant brilliant professor an incredibly good teacher It'll be wonderful to have a case study of how this works. Um, so please join us next week for that august 1st Um, also, uh, we're getting ready to launch the poll for our next book club reading So as you think about the future of education, let us know what we should be reading Our next poll's topic is going to be on science fiction So if there are any science fiction books that suggest to you the future of education, please let us know Now you can find all these books on our bookstore So if you'd like to grab a copy of this for your library personal or academic It's bookstore stands ready if you'd like to keep the conversation going we have groups on linkedin on facebook on slack We're active on twitter and thank you to all of you who have been tweeting away Really appreciate it and in the meantime. Thank you all for your great participation We'll see you online and see you next time. Thank you. Bye. Bye