 it has a role as a raw material producer. We will not allow Sub-Saharan Africa to escape that. Okay, we do everything to keep Sub-Saharan Africa where it is also impoverished. It's absolutely vital for the prosperity of everyone. So let's get clear about that. Okay, and this means all the economic structures, all the global institutions, and the economics we teach everyone is all designed to keep Africa exactly where it is. We need Africa to be impoverished because we need those raw materials and we need them dirty. We cannot afford to allow Africa to industrialize and start producing manufacturers. Okay, so we will do everything to stop that. So in the earlier period we had Japan and Korea and Taiwan. Okay, rapid growth, sucking in raw materials from Africa, driving up the prices. After those countries finished industrialization, then Sub-Saharan African growth rate again fell. Well, it's a four-minute long video that went viral. In fact, it was my father that sent it to me. I said, okay. So referencing the global journal of politics and law research, Nigeria among the third world country went through almost a century of colonial experience from 1861 to 1960 when she got her political independence. Since independence, Nigeria has been struggling in the course of political instability, economic and social cultural imbalances. And like other third world countries, the nation has been hugely confronted with underdevelopment, which emanated from dominant exploitative character of the Western economies on which those of the third world depend. Now the question now is, can Nigerians rise above this Western influence? Given that most times, especially with this politics, we saw every single leader running for presidency, going to Chatham House to give a speech like almost like seeking for a stamp of approval. Now that's the question. Can we truly rise above Western influence? Now please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation and send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081 80384663. We'll open up online shortly, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on this. So I saw a report that was rather shocking or is not really shocking because this report has always, these things have always been said in different quotas. I mean, if you are a follower of what's his name, Sheykh Unkoti, he will keep telling you, I mean, things like this, that this is where our problem, you know, and all of that. So prior to, this was a report that I found online. I think Afiz Toparaji is the author of the report. He says, prior to European interaction with Africa, both units had existed fairly well in their geographical enclave and developed civilization best suited for them for avoidable reason. However, Europe had to demand reaping from Africa what she sow not. So how briefly, so then he now talks about the piece that the African continent has always been a land of mystery to the Europeans, that though Europeans knew little about the continent, its people custom its tradition and interiors as a whole. A lot of them were highly curious about the continent. And in the 19th century, Kingdoms started to pay great attention to Africa and a lot of scientists, missionaries, explorers, flooded Africa, which they saw extremely astounded or astonished by by them. Now the African continent was full of impressive sight, exotic animals, unique landscape, ingenious people, which their own culture and their life were completely different from, right? So as a result, the widely known scrabble for Africa had begun leading to a colossal colonization of the continent that left lasting impressions and far-reaching effects on the ingenious people in Africa. One of such effects are arguably the most detrimental was the effect on the indigenous industries, right? So you see right now, let me stop there, I'll come back again to it. You see right now that instead of us as Africans to process what we eat, right, we rather take raw materials from our continent, take it to the western world and bring in finished goods. I mean, that is why I saw a video of the Ghanaian president saying that whether we like them or not, we're going to chop Ghanaian chocolates, do you understand? Because they just realized that this is our power, right? Why can't we process the things within them? Whatever you want, you take the process to one. No longer will we be selling our cocoa for cheap and then you bring us very expensive chocolates, right? So let's start to embrace some of these things, you know? So but now, is it possible? Because we have grown to so much love, our mouth, the flavor. I mean, somebody was talking to me today and said his mother-in-law, she does not even eat the local cereal anymore. So every time he has to travel, he has to bring in the imported cereal or all of those things. So our taste board is so used to, what's it called? Everything foreign. So is it possible for us to rise above the Western influence? NG, it seems like you're each into it. I just feel like it's good from just listening to you already. Kind of answers the question that we are far from then. It's just like the question, you know, the last time I was on set and Jennifer was making a statement and she said, are we really ready for the change we are requesting for? Can we go back to Wayne, like how we used to be, the answer is no. The answer is no. The only thing I feel like we can do or we, the only thing we can do is just be cautious of how we move going forward and do things for the best interests of the country and not for selfish interests. So a lot of things that have gone wrong have been because of selfish interests, colonization, chain religion, and what I have viewed that was brought into the country was for selfish interests, not because they wanted to make Nigeria better or Africa or the continent or Africa or the continent. Looking at, if you finish that video, you will see that he called Africa a raw, raw material supplier and producer. So this is how we are viewed. We are viewed from the angle of we produce raw materials. So it's almost like the whole idea behind colonization is to suck out the natural resources from Africa as a whole and then subject us to the point where we feel like the western culture would always be above us. Meanwhile, we as Africa, we are indeed greater in every ramification, like everything. But due to also lack of education, of even know because you can only be sold. I feel like you can only be sold the lie when you do not know. You're not informed when you are not informed, when you do not know the truth. If you do not know the truth, then someone can sell you a lie. It's because we did, we never really, you know, stood to appreciate who we are as Africans. And that's the reason why if you go, let me give an example. I feel like Nigeria's or Africa's case is a case of like a record label. You see someone that has great talent. You know, most, this is this normal story. A producer, you know, someone takes you under his wings, produces some, some, you know, tracks for you, shows you the ropes, takes you out there, introduces you to people and enlarge your, your, your rich, your rich. And then after a while, you now realize that you have been cheated because you were doing the major work. I know that this person is your producer, but because they had that, because you always saw them from that point of view of you were below and they were above, without knowing your, that's the thing, without knowing your value is the reason why, you know, eventually most of them give it a couple of years, their eyes open and then you hear of scandals and you hear of issues and everybody's always crying. Well, this one we've done how many years now, our eyes have not opened yet, but let me come to you, Mary, because I mean, this is interesting. I mean, you are somebody that sells luxury things. Let's even take it from the angle of your specialty. No, no, no, let's be factual, right? There was a time in this country where we took pride in the things that we manufactured, right? I mean, there was a time heads of state, for instance, as you might seem that these things are basic, but these things had a major imprint on us, right? Cars, it was pushed all over. Now we have an indigenous brand in our backyard here, but we would rather still take hundreds of millions to buy the brands, the German brands, the Korean brands, even Chinese brands. Will you buy nationality? Oh, done. I will buy it. For your next? Of course, I will buy it. You'll buy it. I will buy it. And I'm not even about to lie on nationality. Even if I have the money, I will buy it. But tell me why? Why have we gotten so engrossed in believing that our dependency and everything that we stand as Africans is tied to, you know, we must go and consult with the Western world? First of all, I think is a case of we're blessed and we don't know that we're blessed. And if you don't know, you can't give what you don't know. Second of all, the Western side of the world, they set a standard which we will try to catch up on. What I think we need to do is infuse more of our culture in the things that like not forget is like a child leaving the house and your father says, don't forget the son of who you are when you're going. So it's like we've gotten so used to everything foreign and that we're leaving back our own things. Second of all, we don't have a platform to help us maximize these things. We produce one of the best letters in I think it's Kano or Kaduna in the northern part of Nigeria. But how are you able to finesse your product? That's even if a white man seizes who is of the top class is still going to say, oh, you know, Africa, this is made from Africa, this is nice. Well, sometimes we're very tacky in some of the things we do. Our finishing. Yes, our finishing is not there. Which is why they have the edge over us. And whereas now that we have people running away to outside the country for education, they're not willing to come back to develop their own countries because there's no platform here that is giving you that ability. So what do you want to do? You're making, you're producing chocolates that you know that if truly and truly you give to everybody, it's not going to be nice. So what should we pretend that we like it over the one abroad just because we want to seem like we're cultural? Come on. There's a big difference between like modernization and everything like westernization. It has also helped us. But I think we just should learn how to infuse culture into it and not let them have the edge like coming here to take raw materials from us. It's because we don't have a platform to use raw materials. They produce Nigerian rice. We don't want to because we think it's not up to standard. But if many of us decide, okay, you know what? We're going to embrace it. Fine. And we start buying this thing and it's actually quality and it's actually up to standard. Come on. Everybody will follow suit. Even laws in place by the government to say, okay, you know what? We import everything now. We import so much. And even the people that are sitting in government, are they not taking from the imposition too? Okay. So let me read another part of this report that says the first objective of colonialism is political domination. Its second objective is to make possible the exploitation of the colonized country, albeit practically. The letter remains the core that the former is just a fairer meaning to this extractive end as shall be shortly, of course, shown shortly. So what he was saying, it says colonizing began as a result of changes in the mode of production in Europe, right? The emergence of industries, revolution, the revolution of industries. And some of these people, they don't realize that the big problem is that a lot of the raw materials for them to be able to do what it was, they didn't have it. So if Africa decides today as a continent to say we are not dealing with any country giving out our raw materials, all these countries are dead. If you had finished the video from the professor that was talking, all these countries are completely comatose because they rely solely on the African market. So it is in their interest that we do not have good governance. It is their interest that would not have stability in our economy. It is in their interest that we do not have the right leaders in power. They need to keep on having leadership that they can control. Leadership that still sees them as superior. So if we understand this system, why are we not putting heads together as Africans to say, you know what, we need to fight this? Because now the target has never been about the reason that they are very much... I mean, when you listen to that guy, they then give you handouts. They then give you what's called scholarships. They give you grants. They give you all of those things. So they keep making you come back to depend on them, thinking that, oh, these guys without them, I would not have done this. Without them, I've not done that. And that's why the Jack Ma syndrome, right, is very, very strong. Because now they are even telling you there are some countries that will tell you you don't need anything. Just come with your passport. You will come and we'll give you... And then because we're chasing things as simple as basic amenities, that's why you have people running there. It looks like people are out of the country and they're suffering. They're actually worse off than how they were even here in Nigeria. But nobody's going to talk about that part. They take a nice picture of their self in a nice face and you think that, oh, everything is all rosy. But they're suffering there. But at the back of their mind, they're telling you, at least when I come back home, there's light. At least when I come back home, I'll see water. So I mean, the platform for that change is going to take a while. It's not like it's unachievable. But it's going to take a while. There are just a whole lot of things we need to get right with ourselves before we start throwing blames out there. Yes, the blames are there. Yes, they are holding us captive. But we need to work on ourselves first. Before you now, if you're in prison, you're not just going to keep saying, oh yeah, they just put me, they just put me in prison. They just put me in prison. You're going to start thinking, okay, you know what? Reflecting on yourself, reflecting how can I be better? And somehow, somehow things now begin to come and then you're free from it. And that's why we have growing industries. I mean, I think we're doing fairly well. We're not even close. But nowadays, you see in the fashion industry, Nigerian designers are going wild. It might not have spread to industries in terms of like... Well, that is where we wanted to spread to. But it has started from somewhere. It has started from somewhere. That is where the big money is. Let's take a break because I would like us to open our phone lines. Some people have been trying to call the WhatsApp line. Please, we don't take calls on the WhatsApp line. It's our ladies' night out and we're discussing the topic, can Africans or can Nigerians rise above the Western influence? That's the question for today and the number to call. Oh, please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the rate 1-803-4663. The phone line is now open and the number to call is 07025-007749. Remember, turn off the volume of your television set so we can hear ourselves. The number again, 07025-007749. So, please, those trying to reach the WhatsApp line call this number. That's the number to call. I mean, so the conversation, and this is where I like what you're saying. And we are tired of handouts. And that's why the kind of leaders that we have matter. Now, we are farmers, for instance, right? Chinese people will come into your country. You will give them hectares of land to farm. You will give them tax holidays. You give them all of those things. These same incentives, you don't give it to your citizens in Nigeria. Now, go and check all the restaurants in Lagos, for instance. I don't know about even in Abuja. Most of the top restaurants in Nigeria are owned by Lebanese people for goodness' sake. Do you understand? Would you, as Nigerians, go into their country and have that much leverage? And guess what? They're in the primest locations. Let me take our first caller for the evening. I don't know. You just raised my voice this time. I'm delighted your life. I'm fine. Thank you for calling. Go ahead. Can you hear me? We can hear you clearly. All right. I think Africa and Nigeria have overcome this problem. Well, the first thing we need to do is to have an inner belief in ourselves that we now know that there's common and that we are capable of making the right things that are required of us. Each and every one of us, especially the dedicated ones, now know that we do not need this Western culture. We do not need this weapon. It's our leaders from the 80s, 60s and above. We're not the reason why these people are there. It's not that we don't know. We know. The changes will come and I'll show you that you, young ladies, just talking about this program today on TV, on live TV, is even a step forward in making that change. I guarantee you. Thank you. This will absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. So Mary, so let me come back to you because you raise the very valid point, which is excellence, which is what you don't see with Nigerian products. But let me tell you something. When I started ways, I don't think I was this good. When you joined the team, I don't think you were that good. What happens is when you keep giving people the opportunity to grow. Nigerians, we need to, I mean, he said, believe in ourselves. Believe enough that, okay, no matter what, let's keep trying. Let's provide amenities. But we're not saying that. We're not seeing the process. It's not working. Dump it. Let's go and get, you know. I'll give you an example. We had Hiki's changing earlier today. Yes. And we said something about her, that everything she does, she puts excellence in it, is changing. I will be proud to export that change. From the packaging alone, from the look alone, that is a Nigerian who has decided I will be different. Who has decided I have gone outside, I've probably schooled abroad or whatever, and I will come back to my country and make a difference. When you showed me the factory, I was impressed. Oh, it's even made here in Nigeria. I saw it around the certain aesthetics which are setting female Nigerians who have, you know, put themselves on a setting pedestal, you know, to set to international standards. And I'm like, okay, you know what, if something is coming from here, then a measure is of good quality. And I went for it straight. I'm not looking at it to say, oh, it's not following or, you know, it's appealing to me. It tastes good. I will gladly buy local if it meets standards. So it starts from us. If I come to your house and you tell me, ah, everything is Nigerian madele. And I look at it and it's nice. I will go back to my house and think, oh, you know what, where did you get those things from? And at this table was made in Nigeria. Oh, okay. You know, we can get it here as well. I would go as well. I want to get it. So for me, that's it. Are we putting our best? Yes, we have these natural resources. Are we using it? With the knowledge that we have, are we using it? We, let me call, NJ has been doing. It's different, you know, seeing things from I'm actually why I was, you know, making side comments because I was like, okay, I'm actually seeing things from her own point of view because yes, we cry about these things a lot. But we also know what we gain from it. There are a lot of people with their parts of this colonization that cannot be changed. You know, the effect cannot be resolved in a day. The effect would have to start or rather would the repair would have to start by what like what Abdullah said from us, from the mental, when it happens in the subconscious, then it comes down to the conscious and you can actually, you know, leave it. So we need to get to the point where we start reorientating ourselves and re-engaging our minds into what it actually means to be indigenous, what it means to be local. And it's not just about wearing Ankara, but let me take Emineke because that's what they think it is about. Emineke from Umuahia. Umuahia, thank you for joining us. Hi, good evening. You see, the problem with leadership and we also are comfortable. When we begin to believe in ourselves, just like one of the top speakers, if I said it, when we begin to believe in ourselves, then we begin to talk about what we think is right. And I think we would have been able to take and begin to develop and make our country better. But because the Western world see challenge, they will face immaculate projects. They just give us handouts to suppress and kill our initiatives and they are leaders, but incomplete. And that has taken us where we are. Look at what is coming out of other and many other places in Nigeria. No study is showing sense. We talk of Taiwan like this. We talk of the Asian title and other. We criticize their product that today they are doing well internationally. So until we begin to believe in ourselves and not allow from kind of a family to overshadow, let's not begin to believe in ourselves. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you so much. So let's try to keep our conversations within a minute so we can have more callers in. I mean, it's interesting how, yes, people are saying believe in ourselves. I was going to come to Medina Bah. Medina Bah, there was a time it was, ah, God forbid. See the problem Mary, first of all, it has never been about the quality. It is the mindset that you just think that everything Nigeria is a theory. So even when you see people that are trying to genuinely make efforts, right, the same changing that you have praised. Some people have already said, no, it doesn't taste right, right. So I'm saying to you that until you first of all, you must take pride in that the fact that it was done here. Eh, forget it. I don't need any other conviction. Then we cannot talk about other things later. Now I've tasted some of this Ghanaian chocolate. Honestly, it's not something that you would like to live in your mouth for a very long time. But guess what? No, but I'm being honest. But guess what? You will see that there is conscious effort for continuous improvement. And that's why MNK's comment is very important. Everything rises and falls on leadership. So whether it is the car is good or not, whether it has the aesthetics, we are, we have this rent seeking mindset. We are more, we prefer to ride all the designer. I mean, myself and my sisters were talking the other day. I said, it is, it is very, very foolish of me to wear a designer brand that the logo is all over my body. Did they pay me to be their stamp poster chart with my own money? I spent thousands of dollars to buy that. No, even if I was going to wear a designer brand, it is the one that you would have to check the label to see the designer name. Not that it's the one that it has all the stamps. You know the brands I'm referring to. We'll go and check the Nigerian industry, right? You come into a place, the first of all, size you and look at it if you're worthy to talk to you or not. So the problem we have is deeper than just the fact that somebody has paid attention to excellence is that we do not see, we look at ourselves and we look at ourselves as inferior. And that is the ideology that was sold to us. Because you're talking about westernization, you're talking about what's it called, advancement. The West, they were scared as to how we were living, in the manner we're living so coordinated and everything. The introduction of the chaos and all of these things that we're talking about was denibrate. So they now made it look like it was their religion that was better. It was the West, what's it called, their education that was better. It was all of those things that they were doing that were better. So we also bought in that idea. So my point is that we have stayed there for too long. When do we leave that mindset and begin to get rid of this western influence? Because guess what? Your president will talk to you on a plus TV Africa always show. You will not listen. But let him say he wants to go and feature on an international TV channel. Everybody will be tuned in. It's the same thing. It cuts across every single thing. Until we as Nigerians begin to first of all have it consciously that we have been programmed to think in a certain way and act in a certain way and begin to consciously, you know, the what's it called, the program that kind of mindset. We will not go anywhere. Just to add to what she said, it's just like what needed to happen in China, what they did in China. Thank you. They literally, and it was a it was a decision, a conscious decision, just like yes, they knew they were going to suffer. But they because of what they were going to gain at the end of the day and how beneficial that move was going to be for the entire country was the reason why the entire country, whether or not they wanted to have to buy into it. How was the quality of Chinese clothes then? It was very bad, very shabby. But even the fashion industry in Nigeria has taken a turn in terms of we're being globally recognized. We have and people away. We don't have to be globally recognized. Yes, but at the same time, even now, people are doing like people are pulling up looks even with Nigerian designers. But merely has been happening over time. Designers have been using Nigerian raw materials and African raw materials. And I'm saying now, and I'm saying that yes, it's not going to happen overnight. But what I'm saying is gradually, gradually, industries where we're beginning to accept it. My point is, you don't have to, I don't have to wait for the western to stamp a seal of approval that my product is good before I would know that my product is good, which is what we're always doing. Do you understand? So a designer comes up and the designer is doing amazingly well. Nobody recognizes a designer. A beyond designer picks that designer and says, style me a cloth. And all of a sudden everybody's running to that designer. No, it doesn't have to be that way. We have local influencers too. So the point is over time, right, we always wait to seek approval from the western world. We always do that. And I'm saying that I am tired of that. We are done. We need to start waking up to the reality. What you said about China closing their borders, they had to close their borders. When I was growing up, it was either guaranty rice or abalaké rice, abalaké rice that we used to eat. They were stones inside. But imagine if they had stayed, right? Now they will not be at the same quality or at the same whatever now. But guess what? Because nobody said it, nobody bought them. Everybody abandoned those things and they were going to Okubens, going to all those other brands. What happened, you know? Then finally, even in my house now, I don't eat any other rice. My friend is a farmer, she farms of other rice. Even if I'm cooking it, I'm still eating it like that. Because first of all, our rice is even healthier. They sold us the idea that palm oil was not healthy. And all of a sudden there was an efflux of vegetable oil. Now they are coming back to say, oh, palm oil is healthy. Come on. Most of the international products, the same thing. See, a lot of things haven't been used at the same time. Let me take another caller. I think Abdullah, is he back again? You're live please. All right, hello. Yes, go ahead. It's interesting to listen to what you say. And like I said, I've really tried to, you guys have a discussion. But I would like to bring this thing down to the Nigeria context. We already have a discussion in this country. All we have to do is think about it. The ebos, we've mobilized them, have shown that we are capable of doing anything that we choose to do. Absolutely. Just like the last one I said, go to Abahak. You'll be amazed at what you've seen Abahak. Thank you. The ebos are the engineers of what we need to change Nigeria. If only our politicians and our leaders would understand, the all we need to do is replicate Abahak's legal zones and give them the money. Give them whatever they want. The ebos are capable of changing this country once and for all. Thank you, Abdullah. You are spot on. And I would say to us as Nigerians, we need to put aside this idea that, because it makes no sense. I used to say this to my friends like Joke. I said, I wish I came as an ebogue. I will not be, me and you will not be on the same level. Because guess what? By now they've blown. Because you must tap into what you have. Abah, yes. They were some standard things. You would see kuchi instead of gucci or whatever. Whatever it is, they are making an effort. So if a government was thinking right, what were you supposed to do? You were supposed to provide, imagine having an industrialized state that you can come and produce, mass produce the genes, mass produce whatever it is. Whatever it is that you're looking for, there's no product you're looking for on earth that does not have a copy in Abah. It's still of use to take advantage of that. And that's the same spirit that the Chinese people have. We're not taking advantage of that. Instead, we are mocking and saying that it's fake or it's cheap or it's whatever. Let me take Loma from Abia then we'll now take our final comments. Ah, you're angry. I'm just upset. Loma, you're alive. Please, you have a minute. So yeah, good evening, my dear people. Good evening. Good evening. Yeah, very much the question that is on the screen. It wouldn't be possible for Nigerians to rather go to work in the trade because we depend much on a foreign program. But yes, we can go back to production than consumption. Once we decide to embark on production than consumption, then that is when we will write about it. And we will now try to use what we have and get what we need. That is the only time we can write about what it is because now we hear our business. Once they are sick, they go outside. They won't even try to think about the products they want to buy. They want to work with the products. But if we decide to now say, let's all start using what we have, I'm telling you, that is when we will write about it. Depending on our also, making sure we make our products of quality that is good for the market. Thank you so much. It will not be easy for us to write about Western influence. Thank you so much. Thank you, Loma. Ladies, your topic, Nigerians rise above Western influence, to me, is a call for sub-reflection for us as Africans to begin to look inward and to access our actions and relationships with the Western world. Unfortunately, we Africans refuse to stand up for ourselves to take our destinies into our hands. We refuse to grow up and we keep remaining as babies in terms of leadership, leadership, economic in relation to Westerners. Now, we want them to continue to babysit us, to tell us how we can think and move. African continent was not the only continent, African continent was not the only continent the Western colonized in the world. Others have moved on with their lives but Africans are still sitting there calling our colonizers masters until we begin to believe in ourselves and to let ourselves know we have equal rights with the Western world. They will continue to treat us the way they are treating us. We must learn to rise to ourselves and define our world like the Chinese people did to themselves. Nobody colonized China but today they are also like world power economically, politically, and otherwise. This is from Santos. Let's take more comments and we wrap up. China did it. China did it. It closed its borders for 40 years and adapted. It is known the second largest economy in the world. Buhari closed out border to help us grow what we eat and everybody started shouting hunger. We are not ready to pay the price for development. Subsidy was given to Nigerian farmers but they decided to sell and consume the seedlings and farm tools. Terrible. Yes it is possible but the leadership which is supposed to show the way is not ready. How long would we be taking for granted? We have refineries that are not working whereas one man within a short time built one. What of our leaders who patronize hospitals abroad even for May to take? Where are the Kaduna and Asaba textile mills because our leaders have knack for imported clothes, furniture and even toothpicks whereas we have abundant raw materials waiting to be harnessed. The Chatham House is exactly what we have known as the National Institute for International Affairs, NIA but they prefer abroad. What a country, what a country where a president prefers to speak to foreign media preferably when the leadership gets it right the citizens will fall in line. Absolutely. God bless Nigeria. This is from Austin from Delta. Thank you so much on that note. We can't take more comments. We apologize if we can't take your comments but thank you ladies. I think we had a fantastic conversation. I was a bit heated up today but God will help me. Nimata is very dear to my heart. Now before we go and show you follow us across all our social media handles our way to Africa you can interact with us further and follow all our engagements online. Remember to like share and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. Now if you missed our quote for today here it is again. My people have been successfully managing their political system before the advent of the white in Africa and even the presence of white brought distortion to the African political and economic system. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. also bring another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.