 We are live. Hello everyone and welcome back to Paragon, the over prime partners, aka pop for this week. We're going to be talking all about over problem. We'll be talking about the message that was sent out by Ranger talking about their been losing numbers. What we can do to kind of help out with that. And then we'll talk about ranked a little bit as well. I am the man goose joining me as always and streaming this week is stunt. How you don't stunt. Oh, and great. So stunt is streaming on Twitch. I will pop the twitch link in momentarily and you guys can check him out of one on the twitch. If you want to, if you prefer to watch that way for your viewing play. And you've already heard from her a little bit tonight but go ahead and introduce yourself in your owner. Uh oh, you know, what's going on about that? Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? Ego. Yo, guys, I'm Ego. Uh, I've been streaming a lot more on Twitch. I'm a partner along with some of these awesome, soul tree, super cool people. Um, yeah, today we're going to be touching on what we can do to help grow the game. Some of our thoughts, opinions and, you know, communicating to you guys, the Paragon community. It'll be sick. Thanks for the heads up about the sound guys. Unfortunately, I had you guys muted for like the first. A little bit of that, but it's okay. You guys didn't miss anything. I just announced my engagement to stunt. Are getting tickets to the video. My background. No, I just low. I need to go. Please. Thank you. So let's get right into the meat taters here. The message from Ranger talking about how they've been losing players. They're going to be looking at the data and and, um, seeing what they could do to fix and retain new players. I think overprime, um, actually attracted a brand new audience to the game, but they kind of, they came, they saw and they went away. So what could they do to make that better? Ranger has been addressing this in discord ever since he's been talking about a variety of things. Some of the things kind of worry me a little bit, but, um, what I want to talk about tonight is what we can do as a community to help them retain players. I think this is a big problem. This is a problem that's I talked about in the video I did yesterday, and it's something that's going to affect predecessor as well when they go free to play. These new players coming in have no idea how to play Paragon, whereas the old Paragon player base at least has some clue as to what they need to do. They know about last hitting minions. They know basic MOBA mechanics. So when you get new people in your games, don't just flame the dog shit out of them. Try to guide them and help them and teach them instead of just being extremely toxic, which I see a lot of people being very toxic. I've already received messages from people saying that they tried overprime for a few days, but they got flamed so much that they just didn't want to play it anymore. I think that's the main thing we could do as a community is be mentors, not toxic assholes. Yeah, don't be dick guy. Don't be dicks, guys. I feel like another big thing to like, I think Manguza said it earlier, and it may not roll over with a lot of people, but quick play is practice, right? You're not gaining or losing anything in these games. I'm sure you may yourself being, you know, trying to like polish your mechanics, you know, pull team plays and stuff. But unless you're running like five people deep, you may be like training to be an eSports player, but you know, like Timmy T could have just got off his nine hour shift, man, and he just wants to play a little bit of rev support. I mean, not great, but, but you know, you get the meaning. So just try to like, give people a little bit of leeway on things. And instead of like, hitting with a, Oh, dude, why are you doing this? What's going on there? Oh, that's such a stupid play. Maybe just be like, Hey, man, try this item. This is your lane. That type of thing. Are you really gonna be able to fix that, though? Honestly, speaking, no matter how much advice we give them, you're, you're still going to get those, you're still going to get those groups in. I think I do agree with Magus when it's when he says something needs to be done in the sense that maybe these new players need to be put on a newer bracket. Like when they come in, play somebody more on their own level. Whereas you're talking matchmaking, you're talking matchmaking, like whether it's matchmaking, whether it's because they're new players, put them in some sort of like, I heard this on a podcast to on Monday, when, when bearded and when they were talking about it on primecast, maybe put them in a separate like elo system, where they get to play with each other, whereas they get matched up with more experienced players like us who come from a paragraph background, right? I agree with that because aside from all the shit talking or saying stuff about some of these players, we kind of stomp them. And it's, it's when it's not like we do it on purpose, it's the game. You know what I mean? It's the game that allows us to do that to the new players. Um, it's it's I don't know what you mean by it's the game that allows us to do. I mean, I get it. Everybody wants to play their game. We're here. We're putting in between 20 minutes, sometimes even 40 minutes, 30, 40 minutes. And we have newer players on our teams. And it's just like, you know, you talk maybe first, hey, yo, rotate, yo, what's up, do this, do that. And it's just not happening. And then just keeps getting worse. You're trying to f1, you'll press f1, they don't know where the f1 button is, or maybe they just don't want to f1. And things tend to get a little bit more on the tighter edge, and it starts to become a rose flame party where all of a sudden they just quit, you know, I personally had a game yesterday where, you know, my friend and I were to be fiving a gameplay and the three people were absolutely ignorant of what's going on. Now, we thought they were absolutely new players. Well, which we ended up figuring out that they weren't new players, they're just being, you know, the way they want to be. And, you know, it just, we understand that you want to play the game, you don't want to waste your time. But like, even if you shit hog them, it's not gonna make a difference. They're just going to end up leaving. And I know it's, you don't want to sit there and cater or babysit somebody or be extra nice and whatever. You know, and I know, like putting them separately in a needle bracket, like you're saying, stunt, it's like, hey, you have to be in a probation period. And if you're good enough, we'll release you. Well, you see how like, for example, they do it for ranked, like you have to have your placements, you have to be in a placement done, and then we'll take you into ranked, and then you'll start playing, like you're released like that, maybe something like that for casual, where they have to complete like a specific tutorial, for example, and they actually have to complete it. You know, they have to pass it basically, they have to prove in that tutorial that they were able to like, there's no skipping tutorial, like why do you are you able to skip tutorial, they should not allow people to skip tutorial, because if you are a new player, you need that practice, you need to know you are not just going to get released, pick a hero, go in and probably mess up people's game. I'm not sure if they're really able to do something like that, but as simple as not skipping tutorial is something that would maybe do a little bit of a benefit to this. Yeah, and then I think that it's good that they have ranked and quick match, but people need to stop treating quick match like it's ranked. If you want to be a competitive douchebag, go play ranked. You know, fight me in ranked man. Like I play ranked when I want to be serious. There are heroes that I will not touch in rank mode that I will dig like I dig around with Aurora jungle in a quick match. Maybe one day I'll get I'll get good enough with it to where I could bring that into rank, but quick matches practice mode, it's practice mode. So stop like going off on people because you're losing your quick match game. Nobody gives a fuck. Nobody gives a fuck about your quick match game because we have ranked. We have a ranked mode where you can be competitive and it's kind of a bit of a free for all now because the game is brand new. I think I made a pretty good analogy when I was talking about if I were to give you a thousand people right now and tell you to make a competitive basketball league, you couldn't fucking do it because you have no idea what the different people skill level is now after that first season and you know people's individual skill level a little bit better than you're going to have a much, much better second season. So people bitching about how they're getting placed against noobs and ranked or placed with noobs and ranked just fucking write it out for a little bit, man. Like it's it's a brand new game. Their matchmaking isn't going to be perfect. I think what you were alluding to was I was saying that MMR needs to start at zero, not at the mid range. And then you drop MMR. You need to just only you start at zero and go up from there that way because I don't know. That's that was a mistake on false part, but fault was a unique situation where you only had hardcore die hard fault fans playing fault. So like even bronze players and fault were would absolutely demolish people in either predecessor or over prime. So I mean, but still, I think I think they should start at zero for MMR. Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's it seems conceptually like a bad idea to assume that someone coming into a game has an average skill level, right? Like you bring a thousand people into a basketball court and you just assume everyone is at least OK is shooting free throws. It should be something you have to prove over repetition. And then four players who do care to want to play a little bit more competitively, even in their quick playing casual matches. If you're being matched up against these other people, the increasing of your MMR from zero to whatever point that suits your win rate will get you into a bracket of the game where you are going to be more comfortable and have hopefully more experienced players such as you come in, start winning from zero and don't be at zero anymore. And I feel like that would just be be pretty pretty huge as far as like affecting the quality of life and improving the quick play gameplay that some people have a problem with. But overall, like Mango said, it's it's casual. No one cares. No one cares. I've I've like messed around and like played a revenant jungle and stuff and like build a mess on the tax speed instead of create guide. Like it I if I'm playing in casual, most of the time I'm here having fun grouped up with friends over just chatting. So just I don't know, guys, don't forget, it's just a game. We can step back. Enjoy it. You know, I understand you got like your mouth into one hand, you're just they're not rotate like it's relax, breathe, man. Some people are just trying to have a good time, you know, you know what? And in some of these cases, too, I do agree with chat. I've been looking at chat for Mango's his page and and my my Twitch. Some of in some cases, some of these new players are to be blamed too. You know how many times I've gone into my placement matches where a new player will come in and not know what lane they're going to, even when you tell them to follow the arrows. No, I don't think I will pay as a support and not leave mid lane, knowing that I was a how we made and I was going to continue it. That person did not leave mid lane. So it was almost like having a dead weight in our placement match. And it's something that Rager did discuss in the developers diary he was talking about. He's heard the feedback that the level requirement is to change for ranked. I think that will offer a bit of a buffer. They may they may have learned by the time they hit level 10 or level 15. But I think you're still in your placement matches are going to get matched with junglers that have no idea that this might item exists or you're going to get that ADC that with no vision of the map pushes all the way to the inhibitor then gets mad at their team because they died. It's like, bro, you know, prime guardian is is the way you win this game. You're not going to do dick by taking that inhibitor. Like what are you? Why are you not with the team? It's not why or not? Why are not? Why not? Why are we not with you? It's why are you not with us? That's what I'm trying very desperately trying to get out of my mouth right now. I do want to answer bearded Wolverine. He asked a question in your chat. Yes, I am experiencing long Q times, but I'm only experiencing it and a West. Even when I play around this time, which is supposed to be the the peak of everybody's game time and stuff like being 6pm, 7pm, I get maybe 25 minute queues, 20 minute queues for rain. I don't get that in any East. If I if I team up with menace or if I team up with low or bearded or I mean a man goose, we don't I don't get that when we queue East. But when I do queue West alone, I do get 20, 25 minute queues. Are they a placement or like in your regulars? No, no, I've already been placed. So it should be. And like I said, I don't play that late for me to worry about people being asleep. It's around this time and they should be the peak of peak hours when it comes to any West. So I started doing my placements on my sixth queue on any East and it was like a five minute pop up queue. It was it was magical. It was beautiful. I was like, Why do people complain? I don't see it right? Like mine is popping up really great. And on my sixth queue is when I have to wait 20 minutes and above. I don't know what happened. I used to think that well, any West was the newer server and East was there before. Maybe that's the issue. But then no, boom, I'm sitting there waiting 20, 30 minutes for a match by the time, you know, I'm in a match. Oh, did I really queue? Oh, shit, I did not accept that. And this is another actually topic that Ranger talked about also in the developer's diary in the discord of Paragon Theoprene. Is that accept button and reject? Like he's asking, Yes, why do we need to have it? Maybe not having it completely. The accept and reject is better than having it. You know, you went into a queue, you accept it, you reject it. At that point, if you are not there, you get the ban. Like there's no need for it, eliminate it. I don't know, I feel like it is kind of nice to have it. But because some people are intentionally like what we all know, like they're intentionally ruining the experience where people will be waiting for long queues in placement. And then, you know, you get that queue and then all of a sudden somebody's rejecting it and then it resarts all over again. Some people aren't actually doing it. The devs know about it. They're working on it. They're reiterating even completely removing the accept or reject part there. So I guess that's a plus. What do you guys think? Have you ever seen like any real benefit from? Hearing the is my favorite part of overprime. And you're trying to take that away from me. You and ranger are trying to take the blue blue blue bloops away from me from hitting accept state. I can't believe you know, I mean, I mean, in ranks, maybe it's important is she can stay, but I'm not going to lie to you and quit play, get that shit off. You know, yeah, I don't think you need it right either. Yeah, because because man, if I'm in my casual game play and I'm at the drafting screen and I forget and let's say I lock in support, right? And I don't choose my character because I forgot I didn't pay attention. It literally locks in a character for me. And mind you, I have support chosen and locked. It does not lock for me a support hero. It'll lock for me like several like what the heck, you know, like exactly. So maybe work on the aspect of the casual first because there is where we have the more problem than the ranked, you know, I guess starting from there. I don't know. I kind of don't like the leap, leap, leap, er, leap, leap, leap, er, like, you know, you know, when I'm waiting for ever. Watching chat then having seen the comments like somebody in my chat said, Na West feels low population. I don't know if it's the population issue. I think it's the matchmaking issue behind everything. From my understanding, if I want to queue up with somebody that plays, that's already been placed, right? I don't think as a silver one or two, I can team up or partner up with a gold one or a platinum, correct? It's one level higher and on one level below. If I'm not mistaken, right? Um, when you go into a solo queue to play a ranked match, it's only allowing you to play somebody that's one level above you and somebody that's one level below you. And with that said, maybe the queue times can be extended. That's why we're getting bad queue times. If it allows like silver, gold and silver and gold to play against each other. And then you have platinum diamond and masters or whatever the case is. I think the queue times would be shorter. But the way I think they're doing it is if you're silver two, you can either play silver one or silver three. And with that said, I don't think we have enough player base yet in ranked to be able to get shorter queue times. As far as NA West versus NA East, though, if people are getting faster to use an NA East than any Western is almost certainly a population problem in NA West. Wouldn't they have the option to switch in their settings to any? Yeah. Yeah, they can queue an A East. They just have to deal with a higher MS. Yeah, no, earlier man goose. We were in the chat briefly and I was like, Hey, I'm start taking notes for tonight's show. So what I did was actually recorded here my ranked timer for my non for my non qualifier matches. Literally the first one was 14 minutes. The second one was 19 minutes. The next one was nine. And after that, the next one was 26 minutes to get into a ranked game. Yeah, it was it was pretty violent. And after after the last one, I just didn't have the motivation to continue playing it. I agree with what you were saying stunt about extending maybe at the lower levels, who you can play with. I can understand in some way for like some people opinion, it can make it maybe harder to get out of those lower ranks if you're going against people who have been proven to have a higher skill level than you. But I mean trial by fire, baby, like I'm at a point with the matchmaking timers where not even you won't get especially just in a ranked that something needs to be done. And I don't see the harm actually like Sun said and extending it to where like you can as a silver player play up against like gold for gold three player maybe even someone a little bit higher. And so on itself for for lower ranks and maybe you put a heartstop at that. I like maybe gold players are playing with flat players, but flat players aren't playing with masters players, right? And that's its own kind of little isolated bubble. But as it stands now, I think Mancus might be right and it could possibly be a population issue because I switched around between both and it was significantly faster in the east. I think they also need to, as far as rank goes, they probably need to do SBMM skill based matchmaking. I think that would be incredibly helpful in my in my placements, I played support for a vast majority of the games. I played mid once and I played off lane once and won both of the games. But I played support for the for the vast majority and I lost a lot of games. I got put bronze one. Even though my KDA was insane because I wasn't dying a lot yet I was getting a hell of a lot of assists as a support. But because the KDA was there's no skill based matchmaking is just taking into account wins versus losses. I got placed in bronze one which. Oh, well, I mean, since my placement matches, I've only lost one game and I've been playing almost all mid lane or off lane and just absolutely wrecking people. That kind of sucks for them that they're I'm definitely not a bronze level player. But I am in bronze, you know what I mean? And it's just it's kind of like whenever you're in a placement, it's just spinning the wheel. You're just it's just so random what teammates are going to get and how well they're going to perform. But after that it should even out. Like I said, it's wild wild west right now. It'll it'll even out as things on and people play a little bit more. Give more feedbacks, obviously, as we've seen in the developers diary, they're into to score that they're listening to us. They are listening to our feedbacks. They're reiterating everything from the start of calling it a broader where the heat where ranger said I've designed this game to be I believe 70% he did exactly say 70% fight and 30% game management. Now they're reiterating, you know, people can't they want to improve that part where like they're just saying balance of killing us this experience, portal cool time, minion experience value, minion speed, even Sprit mode, stuff like that. They're working on the very minute things to make this game better. So definitely they're here in the community. Definitely they're doing, you know, their best at heart. Again, these guys have been working on this game for so long, you know, the game is very fun. Yes, it needs to be fixed and needs to be tweaked to become better. Right. And this is not like, oh, yeah, the game is dying and whatever like what I read and read it almost every day since this announcement. But, you know, those those little things I believe, you know, when we report them, be patient, they are working on them. They're not silent because oh, they just released and forgot about it. No, they're working. They're actually really working. If you guys follow up and read, if you guys are in the discord, and you follow up, these guys are working on everything that we are talking about here. So based off of what you were saying just right now, though, when when ranger said, and I'm going to read that directly off of what he's saying, I will try to adjust the balance of kill and assist experience value, portal cooldown, minion experience value, and the minion speed also sprint mode. This almost sounds like they're, they're going to slow the game, the pace of the game down to allow more farming in lane. So the question is, are they going to step away from a much faster mode to a more, I wouldn't want to say original, but more of a slower pace, especially when he put also sprint mode. So if you get rid of sprint mode and you add portal cool times a little if you make it a little longer, minion experience, depending on how much value you get, you're initially just slowing down the game and turning it into a regular mobile. Well, but he did true death buyer sprint mode. He didn't say release right now. Yeah, they can maybe slow it down. So in the portal, they don't want you to rotate as often. Maybe they actually want us to have a true laning period. You know, you want to be able to farm this much minions to be able to get this much gold to buy your first item. And then you will start to rotate. They want to decrease the amount of rotation maybe that happens in the beginning of the game, which is very crucial to be honest, like, I just happened a game I love fighting immediately. But sometimes it's just like, it's too much happening at once at the beginning, like too much, like maybe a little bit to have a real laning phase just at the beginning. And then, you know, I don't know if there's something where it has a certain time or a certain level or something, those cooldowns are changed. And you're just, I don't know. It's it's. I just hope they don't remove Spray mode because I was a I'm a big fan of that. I'm a little worried right now because from the way they're talking, I hope they take a light hand to it. I hope they aren't heavy handed. I hope they don't just take overprime back to just being a traditional MOBA because and I might get some shit for saying this. If you're looking for a more traditional MOBA version of Paragon, predecessor is just better. It's just a better game in that regard. So why the fuck would you play overprime when you could play predecessor if they take overprime and turn it into a traditional MOBA? I love that overprime is more of a third person action oriented third person shooter slash MOBA than it is a traditional MOBA. I really enjoy overprime for that reason, and I hope that they don't take that away in order to retain players because I don't think that's I don't think that's why they're losing players. I think the game is fun as fuck. Yeah, maybe maybe fix some bugs here and there and definitely the gameplay loop towards the end of the match needs to be adjusted 100 percent on that end because you get to that point in every fucking game where it's just two teams waiting for prime to spawn. That's it because minions don't do shit. If they can make minions do a little bit more, I think that would be nice so that actually it's effective to settle lane and shit like that. But I certainly hope that they don't slow the game down to a crawl and definitely please, please keep sprint mode in, keep those portals going. Yeah, increase the cooldown on them. That's fine. But maybe make them spawn a couple of minutes later than they do now. I don't know. But don't take them out. I like them. Yeah, I like that craziness. I think they're a genality. They have their genality of the game. Like you're released like this. This is how this game is. Don't take their genality from the game away because you are trying to listen to the player base and retain more players. But hey, we all forgot if they are going to tweak this much and go heavy handed on it, they're going to lose their actual like what the game is about. This game is about to be faster paced, not just like Mango said, like like predecessor, like the original traditional mode, but this is not overprime release. This is not, you know, it's fun like the way it is. Very fun, the way it is. What do you think they go? I'm enjoying it a lot. I saw a post online. I think it was in the overprime Facebook group where someone had the suggestion of making a way to make the minions more impactful and how setting a lane can actually feel like it's getting somewhere because I can't tell you how many times I've set a lane to leave it and hope it can push down this tower or maybe just push up to an objective reply pressure in one mage in three abilities later and they're like rotate back to lane is having some type of conglomerate effect to where the more minions there are within a certain space. So you set that lane and starts pushing itself. The more waves that fall into each other, their movement speed and defense increases. Maybe they don't do more damage, but they will more quickly clear the lane and forcefully push themselves up and because that higher increased defense over the course of the waves crashing into each other, they can't be cleared quite as quickly, right? It takes a little bit more time, which allows you then to openly go take an objective as a team, maybe make rotations, it'll keep that person on the map for longer periods. And I personally thought that was a good idea. As far as there just kind of being a leading phase in the game, it's it's it's what I agree with man goose here that if you if you're looking for like a super heart, like you want to play league 3D, but pretty go play bread. This this because it's not that game. This game has a big priority on fast movement. A lot of things that just make it fun make you kind of like get your blood pumping as you're kind of like rotating bumping around. And it's something that I didn't know I needed until I tried the game. But there. I understand the kind of concept of them being like, okay, well, a laning phase for us means portals don't spawn till eight minutes. And then it's then it's off the hinges. Yeah, maybe maybe extend that timer give us to like 12 minutes 15, have the maybe starting point for the damage that is done by minions to not only players, but to towers started a bit of a higher threshold that way if you do leave your lane to rotate that damage to your tires will be taken from minions maybe isn't so negligent, you know, make it more impactful make it matter a bit more. But those are, I really think like minions can be a very big key part component in tweaking them to making the overall games health better both of the game and late game like they need. And like maybe so they don't need like, ah, they just like, okay, a little, little more damage here. All right. And maybe people feel those players need to worry about defending a tower versus no, my first priority after I spawn is to go fight and kill join the fight. Oh, no, I need to pay attention to my tower to my map. Oh, minions are pushing and I need to clear that because of I know what's going to happen if I don't. That's where you're not you're prioritizing so many times I'm in casual games, for example, we have a way to actually go take the inhibitor from now. No, let's wait for prime. It's like we're just waiting on that prime spawn because it's more important. We know if we take it, you know, it's going to do that damage to the inhibitor and you know what maybe one or two had somebody can go and dive and take it. It's done. It's gone, you know, like, just, just that side, the aspect of the game, especially with waiting for prime 10 minutes. That's a problem to like minions matter so little in the game that I'll be on shinby. We'll be pressing towards an inhibit and like my team's waiting for the minions to come up. I'm like, what the fuck are you waiting for? We don't need the minions. I'll tank the tower of shinby. I'll take this inhibitor. I'll give a fuck. We can take it right now. We don't have to wait for the minions. You don't need minions at over prime. The minions that over prime are there to get golden experience until super minions spawn. Then super minions actually will push your core down if you don't. If you're not careful, but maybe that's what they need to do. Just increase minion armor a little bit and make the give the towers more armor when there's no minions present. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I saw this interesting idea of like, if I read a lot of over prime stuff online, I'm like, oh, life in real bad now. But yeah, I also saw that the ward slot that I love that. But maybe have the inhibitors maybe don't have it be a tower thing because then people can get behind it. And you guys know my philosophy and chat in this group among you guys. We are here to protect those towers. They're not here to protect us. But in that same vein, it feels pointless to not necessarily have them but work defending around them if they're not really contributing in any way. So like, Oh, no, my headset. So maybe in something just have your minions able to push tower and maybe have the tower at a point, be able to do some type of true damage if you buy certain items around them that's something they haven't smite that's worked pretty well over the course of the game. And they implemented after they had a very defensive meta. So it just just thoughts on things that could help evolve the game and small small changes or point out spiritual soul in my chat said that Ranger also said that there will be a separate item slot for words. That's a welcome change that I had not heard about till tonight. Deathfire that would be cool. He says that in Super Monday Night Combat had a pretty interesting mechanic where you could spend money at your base to spawn minions with unique special abilities. I think that would be way in the future for every problem. But that does sound like a cool idea. Imagine now we can actually carry words and not be, you know, hey, where's your words? Like a lot of time you just don't want to carry anymore because you want to build, you know, having that spot is is crucial now. Now we that that's something really from the beginning of, you know, releasing the game, we all said everybody was agreeing to, hey, we need a spot for words. This is something, you know, that's always been there. Why do you take it away? People don't want to carry words anymore. And you people don't realize, well, they didn't realize how important it was until they actually started having words. But then again, it falls off. They kind of mid lane mid of the game where now I just would rather have more cards than that one slot, you know, I need to finish my card. Never until I am full build, absolutely full build, do I give up? I would love to have the ability to put a little extra damage in there or a little extra tankiness or something because I'm always carrying words so that I can word the prime or the prime spirit. You're one of very few. I know. Actually, they are extremely empty. I've even got a response where you tell somebody to go or prime, they go, what's a word? I'm not kidding you. What's a word? Watchers, I hear. Yeah, I do like the speed of the game. This is why I found in love with overprime. I do agree with you guys. If I wanted a slow paste, a slow paste game, more Paragon is game. 100% its predecessor, but the speed of this game, the action in this game, the game style itself, like the fight style and everything is more of my taste. And if they decide to change that or or go more traditional, it'll it'll probably be an issue for me to a big issue because it's this it's this one message that Ranger wrote that scared me the most after saying that they focused 70% on the fight and 30% on game management to increase the speed and tension of the game. His next sentence, however, the result was not so. That's the line that scared me. Yeah, I'm like, what do you mean? It's not so you got you got the speed of the game, the portals helping and rotation. It some like it, some don't. I mean, I enjoy it. So what is it that wasn't more of his taste? You know what I mean? What what results is was he expecting that he doesn't already have when it comes to speed of the game? I mean, from the closed the final beta test or the global test to now. I haven't there's a significant difference when when you get like a long game. My longest game I've had is a bit about 45 minutes. Usually games end within 20 to 35 minutes, which which is the sweet spot we were talking about. And I had 60 minutes I had 60 they were fun. What a 16 minute game. I haven't seen 60 cents. The the again, it's so random. It depends on your team. If you're going in a stack or even a three stack, you've got the control. If you're going solo queue or like dual stack. Yeah, you get those. I've had those a couple of nights ago. It was pretty brutal, but fun. Like the way it is, the game, the way it is with just the minor minor tweaks is fun the way it is. I don't know what I would do with my how do you have a 60 minute game when it brings your core to one percent? This must have been a style coming from the call duty. Can I get a nuke going to get a 30 bomb? That's how I start to think about it. That's the only way I could think of is if your teammate wants to get like 40 kills and he and he's begging you not to end the game. Don't take their core. Let me go get a few more pentas. I'll be I'll be fine. But like I haven't had 60 minute games since the final global test. I'm I'm actually like TV is just standing outside their core as they're spawning again. Just guys are just ignoring that one percent core. Exactly next to it. I've had close to 60 minute games because it gets to the point where every game gets where it gets to that point where, like I said, you're waiting for the objectives, but you always got that one asshole on your team that thinks it's a good idea to push forward and then they get picked. And then it then it turns into a 4v5 over the Prime Guardian and then you're fucked. But that, you know, I've had games where neither team had that asshole. So nobody was getting picks. Everybody was roaming as a crew. We would get into these big fights over the Prime Guardian and, you know, be limping away with maybe two people alive on each team. And that's not enough to take the Prime because they know that there's still two people alive on your team. And it just goes back and forth like that. That was actually a prime thing. That that was a fun game, like a good, even matched up game. Suck that it went that long. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of how it should be. However, would the game go that long if Indians actually did something? Probably not. Because you can't just go force prime if you have minions on your inhibitor. If minions do something the way it is right now, I don't give a fuck about that minion wave pushing our inhibitor. Go to prime. Those minions are not going to take that inhibitor. I don't care what fucking percentage of health it is. Those minions are almost certainly not going to take that inhibitor. Go to fucking prime. It's far more important. Funny as this is going to sound, minions are well overbalanced in this game. Like if you leave a lane completely alone for five, ten minutes while you're doing other objectives, the likeliness of those minions slowly pushing like playing tug of war is going to be huge. I haven't seen that in other games. If you leave a lane for a good five minutes, those minions are going to push depending on how strong your team is because of their scaling and overprime. It's like, like you said, man, who's like, who gives a shit if sometimes when you sometimes you see the minion wave coming towards you and you still back to go finish that cart because you know you're going to come back and clean it up. I want a t-shirt for this game. This just says go to prime. Go to prime. That's our go to prime. If I get a 60, 65 minute game, even a 70 minute game because both teams are equally strong, I'm OK. But when I'm getting a 60 minute game because the game isn't balanced and like that small ball of or whatever is kicking in like we had in the final global test, that's not what I'm OK with. Yeah, a long game where the team is equally matched and even my chat is saying the same thing equally matched games are really fun. When you constantly challenge each other and you get objectives. And check, yeah, I agree. If the inhibitor has gone down once and then it's the second version of the end of it, it's got supers on it. Yeah, it'll go down then, of course. But. Superminions do do a surprisingly amount of surprising amount of damage to the court. However, like if I'm playing Countess, I'm usually kind of happy when our inhibitor goes down because I get so much free gold from executing superminions. I'm like, oh, sweet. Our hips down now. Now I can farm the auction out of this lane. Oh, boy, it's free real estate now, boys. Go over, chop a couple of rocks on them. I did not just fix my overlay. It did not say stunt the whole time. It has said stunt the entire time. Stunt. Oh, I like that. That's not a stunt. That's not a little off-center, though. I'm always off-center. That's not your that's not your overlay. You're good. I was talking about the guy that was behind me earlier. Well, it was a little off-center. I'm trying to show off Dekker. OK, I was shown off. Nobody wants to see your front. Turn around. Turn around. I'm trying. Let's see. Let's see that back animation. I joined you guys off to the side in camaraderie. I'm going to stay centered up to the right. Let's stay centered up. I don't know. There's a lot of things that I think they need to fix about the game. If they could somehow address. So the the the last quarter of the match, I think it would be great. I think the first three three quarters of the match are fun. And the last quarter is boring. Unless you're getting a lot of kills. It's actually always fun. Even still, it's kind of boring. Like, I don't know that that's subjective, too. Like, I don't I don't have to get a lot of kills or to be fun. I just need to get cool kills for it to be fun. By the way, one of my new favorite things to do is to let a Zina bait a Zina into alting me on Gideon and then teleporting under my tower and alting. Does she get stuck in the air in my ultimate while taking tower? Oh, fuck you, Zina. Take that. I love that. The satisfaction, dude. No, I'll get late game, late game, I agree. It kind of gets because, you know, like we talked about earlier, you're just doing the the overprime tango. A lot of the time, I will say, though, overprime tango. I will say subjectively. This is this is just an opinion here. There is nothing funner in the entirety of the world than bank account is 35 plus minutes into the game. Holy shit. You just see the terror just set the eyes of anyone with less than 4,000 HP because you just walk up old auto wave auto gone and you just like you just tuck them in the holsters and you go. And it's so amazingly fun, dude. But overall broad stroke. Yeah, the last the last bit of the game can be. I wouldn't say I wouldn't say boring, almost like tentative, right? Like everyone's too scared because the game from the beginning up to that point is all about action. Who's going to gain first? Who's going to rotate? Are you going to leave Lane? Am I going to leave Lane Portals up? Taking it right now, ganking solo. Here we go. And then you hit that threshold where everyone's like, who is going to take prime because that's going to decide who wins this game. And something and we're like not talking in circles, but it comes back again to kind of some minor balance changes. Other ways to win in this game outside of crime. And I get like objectives are important in the mobile experience. But having lanes be able to push harder, maybe having prime or maybe having like all of the spirits over the course of the game. You do like an additional like 20 percent tower damage at that point, right? You've collected all four. You're like the Polky Master as you catch him. You did it and it's easier for you to. Did you collect the the fifth? Or I should say the sixth, the sixth, the special prime, the special prime spirit, special spirit. Yeah. The unique way is there a way, guys, am I being trolled? Is there is there like a super spirit? Yes, if you take six of them. Are you what it gives you all the spirit buffs when you take it? Like, OK, what is that? Is that over the question? Is that for like both people? So the sixth time it's like spawns is like a super. No, no, no, your your team has to get it six times. Yeah, six times in a row. But I mean, you think there's a minute. Tell me if I'm wrong. Is this real? It's it spawns every five minutes. So most games don't go for 30 minutes. And you would have to take it at exactly five minutes every time in a 30 minute match for to get it. And your team would have to get it every single time. So it's rare to see it, but it happens a ton. And in my chat says they need to increase mid lane mid late game XP because it takes too long to get to level 18. I think that more spawns from what I was saying, where you get to that point in the game where nobody wants to go out to farm because they'll just get destroyed. So you're actually getting less farm in the late game than you are in the early game. Now, as Lonkey is in my chat says, only problem for me is the feeding during laning phase of my teammates, just snowballs enemies to the point I cannot farm fast enough to catch them. And then he's right. He he's right at. Like when you have a support who constantly wants to poke and play aggressive and constantly feeds the enemy carry. You need to go farm to catch up and it makes it the hard. I'm not saying why are you talking about the support? Why are you specifying the support? If the support wants to poke and play aggressive. I'm just saying it. I'm just saying it. Don't feel it's partially. Well, don't. Especially those phase players like the flated phase play. Right. People that play play phase support. You play phase support. Christ, man, like you started talking and I saw like mentally low hand come up like this. Like you what you got to play aggressive as a support. Just not stupid aggressive. You want to play aggressive. Don't feel we're talking about the stupid aggressive. Why are you taking it upon yourself? OK, yes. Personally, that's that's different domain. I think I think over private predecessor right now kind of have the same problem is that early game objective management is far more important to the to the the invariable outcome of the game than anything else you do. Like late game wave management doesn't matter. Is it like like predecessor? As long as you have if you get three fang teeths, fang tooths or four fang tooths, you're fucking set. You don't really have to fucking like it. Like that matters more than individual skill in both games. Over prime, take that many. The mini me and send it down a lane. That's a tower. Then you take the get those prime spirit buffs and they stack up and your teams just fucking jacked. Like early game management of those neutral objectives in both games are kind of ruining both games or kind of making them a little less fun and a little less mobile. And it still supports where the agros go. I've seen enough jungler steels now to respect it. The first time I saw it, I was like, dude, why are you throwing my right back? Yeah, I saw a comment in my chat earlier at the very beginning said that they need to nerf tanks. Are you have to need to buff tanks? No, they do not. The two best, the two absolute best heroes of the game right now are rap agent steel. Yep. And it's not close. Not even close, even close. A rampage got through one game. I led it through because I was like, OK, no one. No one expects it to get through. And I won't lie. This is on me. I was taught picking that game. I had just got bullied out by a gadget and they they banned ref in it. And I'm like, if I have to pick between playing against Gadget or ramp, I'll take the ramp. I'll just build anti-hill. It didn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter. He he walks in, opens your fridge, eats your cereal and leaves. He doesn't care about your anti-hill. He doesn't care about your crit ramp. Guys, if you're watching this ban them every time rampage cannot be allowed again. Wait, you talk about cereal at the same time. Do talk about some steak or something. He came in. He took your prime ribs and the barbecue sauce and he left. That's kind of something I wanted to address tonight as well, though, is don't play rampage if you don't know how to play rampage, right? Like just because he got through doesn't mean you have to pick it. Like it's far more preferable in rank mode that you play somebody that you're comfortable with than somebody that everybody else thinks is good. Menace and I played two ranked games last night. Both of them we won quite handily, quite easily. The first one, our team got mad because I picked Gideon instead of Gadget. And then the enemy team got Gadget and they're like, oh, they got Gadget. Now we lose. Then I pushed your shit in all fucking match long and we won. Then the second game, the team really lost their mind when we had first pick and Menace picked Countess instead of rampage. They're like, oh, my God, the enemy team got rampage. Well, the enemy team's rampage had no fucking idea how to play rampage. And we and we shit on that team too, like. Yes, steel and rampage are really good, but practice them in quick match for a bit before you try and pick them up in right. And don't blame people that are trying to learn their rampage and quick match. It's fucking quick match. That's where they're going to practice. Mm hmm. Menace has done that in solo lane, too, with Aurora against the rampage. Left him behind for I think he was behind by four levels against him. When we were playing for freaking levels. And this is a rampage. Dude, Aurora is kind of a slept on pick right now. Like she is so good. She is like, I think I don't think I've lost a single ranked game where I've had Aurora solo. And I think I've may have lost one quick lead game when I have Aurora solo. The D is insane. The guy right next to you or Magus 100% Feywin. Feywin has been lost. He hasn't lost with Faye yet, right? Faye's your hero. It's hard to lose with Faye. Yeah, Faye slaps after this podcast. You can work out more than gadget now, actually. Oh, yeah. Faye deserves a band way more than gadget. Hey, don't talk about Faye and negative stuff in the rest of the sentence. They're going to nerf her or something. Leave her. Oh, they need to. So we were pointed out in the chat, he said, I'd say Faye is better than both. And he did. He does have a point. Faye is insane. Like it is. It's so potent. It's like any lane I feel like she's in, she's making an impact in the late game more than any other mage currently. I'm still a goodie. I'm not a goodie in a gadget stand, but late game, dude, the just pressure of Faye can put on at a team fight is huge. And that you're not going to take an inhibitor that she that she's defending. No, you're not. Feel free to look. You can you can see it. You're not in here. And you're not going to both the carry that she's trying to defend either. So yeah, you can take her support, too. Yeah, she's pretty rough there, too. I mean, if you don't get like a mangoes Faye player in mid, how he slaps her around. But when you get somebody as experienced as Magus in mid, it becomes a problem. Well, that's just yeah, I'm not not the beat myself up. But if you don't know, if you don't know how to play him, don't play them. I'm not going to like the last thing I heard Magus like say. And I don't know if that's going to be like, he's like, I don't mean to beat myself off. And I was like, I was like. But I do look to the chat. I want to beat myself up or anything. But yeah, that's people seem to think that because something worked in quick match that it's going to work in competitive like, oh, I did this match up in quick match and it worked out just fine. It's like, OK, yeah, your Wraith magical power mid lane probably beat the dog shit out of somebody in quick match. But against a team in ranked that has more than two brain cells working together, they're going to laugh. They're they're just going to wait out your mid lane Wraith. Yeah, you're going to bully them early. But then what the fuck are you going to do at an end game when Gadget's dropping a fucking Tesla Dome? Are you going to surprise, surprise your team out of that Tesla Dome? No, you're not. Your Wraith ultimate is going to do absolutely nothing and your one damage ability is it going to be enough to have to have an effect? I don't know. I really don't understand why Wraith gets. I love Wraith. He's a great hero. I don't understand why he's banned and additive. I see I see I see him banned and what's wrong. I'm like, why? You slightly to the left gadget as a, you know, you we've seen a lot of gadgets support and casual. Do you think that's doable and ranked? Gadget support. Mm hmm. I've seen it work in ranked. But it doesn't as as like as it works in casual. Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Not any good Decker can really just actually mirror. Muriel will fucking clap a gadget gadget support because she just you know exactly when that damage is coming. So you just shield the shit out of your ADC or yourself. And you just completely negate that gadget. And then that gadget is under farmed because she's support. Mm hmm. And she's just not a problem for the rest of the game. Muriel are counters gadgets. Muriel is a great support, by the way. If you are if you know if you like support and you're not learning her or ranked and you want to play ranked, learn Muriel, learn Muriel. That team in back to can make it. Also, if you I feel like it's like the line that separates a good Muriel and like a great next level ascendant. Muriel is that map awareness. For me, whenever I'm playing support, there's a mini game within the mini game of a. How many times can I do worth the enemy team? Because I know we're going to put them. I'm coming out level one with like four wards. We can have this ward off me and you support. We can do it. But as well as that, there is no better feeling. Support means in chat watching on stun a man goes to chat. There's no better feeling than seeing somebody in solo lane and fuck off nowhere in a close fight. And you're just like, no, don't mind watch. And you're just out of there. It's it is the most gratifying feeling when you land. They get the kill and they look at you and you guys share this moment of I would have died if you weren't here for me. Like it is it is so good. It is so good. You should be playing your sniper Murdoch and you die. You had to have it actually like your hands reach out that red beam. Big moment about how Mario saved you. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Now that you mentioned Murdoch, why do I always I come across a lot of Murdochs, including myself, right? I'm trying to use his rocket launcher ability and I'm just like stuck on my knees the whole time. I go down on my knees and I'm like shooting my rockets and then getting back up is a problem. Do you guys run into that? Like I even see enemy Murdochs like they're OK, you're on your knees. Are you ever going to get up and try to fight me? Like he's just down there the whole time. Is there a certain cold on where you can set up or what happened? I think your Murdoch has an issue because mine doesn't stay on his knees that long. Mine stays on his knees for a while. He won't get up at all. Well, listen, he's old. Don't judge him. They hurt. OK. Standing up. It's a process. If you listen closely as a voice, I was like, oh, I guess that's if I want to be an asshole and like the enemy carry is really poking me. I'll use that grenade launcher just to farm. Just you many as just to farm from it. I don't think I don't think they're they're annoying. They're annoying, but they don't have the heart. OK, quick, non sequitur thing, guys. But I do agree with one of the the brick breaker that in solo lane thing now I do agree with you. Fingmao is a very powerful hero in solo lane under 85. Yeah, 95 percent of my picks in solo. I won't go Xeno or Grugs or anything. I'll pick Fingmao. Great hero. Question for low. Have you been taking your face support into ranked and how has that been worth? If you have. I have not been taking her into ranked. I'm OK playing Decker and steal and ranked. It's my sixth match and I feel more powerful as Decker or steal. Steel, if they don't if he doesn't get banned, I feel I'm able to you know, absorb a lot of damage. I'm able to take it out. I'm able to fight. I go in. I'm very aggressive when I go in and I know I'm going to come out. I'm able to dive and I know I'm going to come out. And if I do die, I make sure my carry is being fed while I die. With Decker, I'm constantly poking. I'm poking the shit out of the enemy and the support I'm keeping about Bay. Sometimes I'm not even letting them, you know, farm at all. If I do take face, I've noticed any Mario can just like shot, shot me the fuck up. If I go a phase against the Decker, you know, once time to my face, she can shut me the fuck up. Like it's like she they keep me with those pokes. A Decker can keep a face at Bay and with Mario's heels, she can keep a face at Bay. So I've been like toning it down with face. Even taking her in mid lane as a caster, I feel like one Faye against me, you know, I'm just like out of the league. Like it's I'm gone. Like I don't feel she's like a ranked even though she still hits hard. Her blind is insane. Her ultimate is insane if you're linked to your enemy. But like, no, I don't feel her that strong in ranked versus casual. Respect, I respect. I was just asking what do you think there? I respect I respect the steel. I respect the steel 100 percent. I've I've felt this beginning that still would be a great fit for you because you play on controller and I think melee plays really plays better on controller than than range characters. I always felt that you would be good or very aggressive, you know, to like not dive towers like I see a lot of steals, the ones diving towers at level two and shit. But yeah, I like that. I like that you're. Yeah, yeah, he's one of my favorites. Now he's very fun. He's very tanky again. That's how you built him. But his nature is like, yeah, you're going to poke at me until I'm level six. Once I level six, man, get out. Like you're done. You've done what you've done in the first six levels. And then that's it. I got my ult. You better be afraid of me because I can, you know, ult you a new tower, shove you back out, dive in. I don't care. My health region, my tankiness, you know, and yeah, he's very powerful, especially after them fixing the shield where it's covering a, you know, a big chunk where nothing can pass through here. Yeah, like he's, he's, he's amazing. We agree with Tom, even after the nerf. I think FaZe is still an underrated hero. FaZe FaZe is still FaZe mid lane is really good. Yeah, I've seen players who actually know her kid and know how to how to use the kid, dominating games. Like when they say, oh, she's bullshit because of the nerf and all of that. But but FaZe, I've seen a dominant gameplay by some really good FaZe players. It takes a lot of patience. Yeah, I think it takes a lot of patience. You're going to kind of play your cards. There's a lot of the time whenever I've tried FaZe mid, which has been twice and then I was like, no, thank you. You, you're like, you're like waiting, praying for that jungler rotation to help you kind of get the setup and secure for it. So, OK, so what question for Mangus and stunning you too low because you you play the most phase, obviously, if you let's say if you had complete mastery over Gideon, Gadget and what's the name? Faye and FaZe, right? If you have complete mastery over all four of those characters, you're in a ranked game. At what point are you picking FaZe over any of those previous three picks for any of you guys? Because for me, I actually think, which is weird, because previously FaZe was like dog walking me for a time period until they nerfed her up a little bit. But like, I I just don't think she's very good. Am I the only one here who thinks that? I don't think she's super great right now. The only time I would ever pick FaZe in that scenario is if I was absolutely sure that I was going against a mid. But she boom, she just dumps on countless hardcore. She's hard, hard counters, countless. But, uh, yeah, with the gave us. I don't think I think I mean, I think FaZe would be a last pick. If I'm mastering, especially someone like Gideon, who hits like a fucking truck. Yeah. Yeah. Rock the CC, the everything that he has. No, I mean, but yeah, that's that's kind of like what I mean, because we were like, you know, if they just kind of underrated, which implies like, she's secretly good and no one really knows. But like every time I've played against a FaZe, I am so excited. I'm like, I'm just going to stay away from you. I'm going to hit you when we do get close and it's going to hurt you and you're going to back up. And I don't know your jungler's coming because you'll move towards me. So I'm going to get under tower. Yeah, it's the moment where she blinds that blind. If she's a good FaZe, she's a good FaZe and she blinds you and you are you have a teammate, for example, your carry is capitalizing exactly. He knows when you're going to hit that blind and he capitalizes on it. Yeah, you go into that seizure. You come out like almost dead, if not dead, like you it's dark. And then you're you're gone. You're a base back to the base. It's dark. Yeah. That is the most I think that's the most damage she can do to you. At that point, obviously next to her house, but like that blind is very, very like hurtful, not just blind because you're blinding and it just goes into void. You blind and you capitalize with other stuff with your teammates, perhaps your carry, you know, and pulling you, bringing you back where you think, OK, you're done, you're gone. Now come back here. You know, she has that Richter pull on her. Come back here. You get more that more damage there, too. So but I would definitely not pick her over a FaZe. Absolutely not. I still think that FaZe is the best mid lane right now, just because she hits hard. She's a freaking awesome support because, yes, she's a caster and people don't like to take casters and to supports. But hey, man, you can keep those people at bay. You really can keep them at bay with your abilities. Your E, your poke is extremely powerful. And the more you're able to farm with your yellow gem and you're getting your cards and you're becoming more powerful, they're going to fear you more. You know, the alt is going to keep you keep you away. It's going to do so much damage. She's a combo of everything. She's she's hella aggressive, but I would not ever take a FaZe against a FaZe, FaZe wins. I would not take a FaZe against a Gadget. I think a good built gadget still hits hard. She's still annoying, you know, a skillless mechanic, but very annoying. I don't know with the Gideon. You say a skillless mechanic. Yeah, she's a mechanic. She does say back to the mechanic shop or something like that. She's a mechanic. She works, you know, with her bombs. I thought you were just like calling her kit brained at like skills. As long as it feels to play Gadget, let's be real, right? We're not landing those like her her bombs or C4s. We don't need that much skill like we need for a Gideon, for example. You're rooting and then your bomb, they have to be back to back to cause more damage to the enemy, right? You can just like throw them and throw them and throw them. And they're like, Hey, you know, why do you have to put up and stop? But, you know, against a Gideon also, if he's in the air and I link him as phase and I pull him like, dude, come on. Come on, that's like a that's like a big smack right there. Yeah, that. That's one of the few that's one of the few forms of CC that can catch Gideon because the link breaks his CC immunity and then the poll actually pulls him out. So. Mm hmm. I haven't done it to a how yet. That rodent goes up so high. Sometimes I'm finding myself jumping trying to reach him. I think he'll be able to catch a how we have. You got you got to time it right. Like the moment he's like, you're like in and pulling. I don't know what he says. I think he says, he says, eat shit. I mean, when it comes to mid lane, when you take Gideon, you take Faye and you take Gadget, you can have a pretty good argument about which one of them is probably the best mid laner. Because I think they're equally equally as strong. Gadget is it? You like both languages. Would you take Faye over over a Gideon? Yes, I play both. Would you? Yeah, I would take a Faye or a Faye or a Gideon over Gadget. Hands down any day. But between the three, yes. But knowing that you have you play both of them a lot more. I see you're more of a type where you'll switch back and forth between the two between Faye and Gideon, because they're both pretty strong at mid lane. They're both stronger than Gadget right now. Yeah, they are. They're both stronger than Gadget. And I've played and I've won a lot of games with Gadget in mid because I'm like, it's it's Gadget. I'll just stay in my lane and make other people tilt it. But the the power and control that Faye has over the game late in mid and early is just it's just she she starts good and only gets better. There are points in the game where, you know, Gideon starts off and he starts off, I don't want to say weak, but definitely not at the power and potency that Faye is starting off. I think he's still very good in his scales. I would argue a little bit, not even a little bit. Gideon scales a lot better than Gadget does into the late game, especially when people have that magical defense on those hats. Don't matter. They turn them back like that, catch them and they're coming for you. But I think Faye is hands down. I agree with like spiritual soul of the chat. Faye is insane. She is she is really good. I want to bring it back to OK, it's very low. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I was good in chat. Tom brought up a major assassins need to be buffed as a jungle role for experience like Countess and Shibby. They take ages to farm a single camp. What I will say to that is I very rarely talk about upgrading the the smite item destroyer stone. But in this case, if you upgrade the destroyer stone to tier two, you get a hell of a lot more magical damage out of that thing than you do a tier one and it makes Countess and Shibby's early jungle clear a hell of a lot better. So if you just invest a thousand gold into that, you'll get a hell of a lot faster jungle. I will I will I will happily try that because I don't I don't know much how much you guys play jungle. I live I live in it. I only come out tonight and so when there's a free gank for me to get. But God, I can't. I was playing a game before this. I was like, hey, guys, can I have fun and play something that doesn't work? And I'm like, oh, what's your name? Countess. And they're like, oh, she's super good. I'm like, yeah, 15 minutes deep into the game. She's great. After my two cards built that I can like start to tap in people. She's she's marvelous, but so early into the game. She is such a grindfest. What's Tom? Did I have to 100 percent agree with you, man? If you're still here and chat, I would like to see them getting a little bit of an upgrade. I haven't tried what mango said, which is like upgrade the smite card a little bit early to help you're clear. I just run for the witches boots. But yeah, but no, it is it is definitely something that I hope they do in the future because these characters are like registered under assassins. They are meant to be played here. And it just feels so bad. Like I'll play it shouldn't be I'll play accounts. I have 16 hours on account is at this point. And I'm like, I should be playing Xena or I should be playing Rampage or I should be playing like I'm not really. But someone else in the jungle most of the time, I bring them in. It is something I do hope they tune. But I'm also I'm also kind of like not worried, but like concerned about how they're going to tune characters specifically because if we remember in the closed beta, they felt a little weak phase was obviously insane. And now like the roles have completely. So it seems like they're like they're too strong. OK, breaks the character. Oh, she needs to be better. Now she's like the best mid in the game. So I would like to see them maybe incrementally just tweak their kits like a little bit, even if it's by as low as like two, three percent on some certain damaging abilities and starting the threshold there and letting it like still have the same max at the end of the game. I would like to see my major assassins for killing get a little bit more love. And I apologize for going on a little bit. Speaking about heroes, what do you think? As I was reading earlier in the developers diary, they're working on the new heroes. They've said they're going to be releasing a new hero. I don't know how soon now in the light of the fixes that they are working on as well in the game. What do you think they will be releasing next? We haven't seen any teasers. We don't know anything yet. We haven't read in between the lines of anything at all. But what do you think they're working on? Just a guess. Grim. Grim. Grim. Grim. Sexy. You don't think you're strong? Oh, I'm not anymore. Why didn't they release some photos of those rapids and stuff? Wouldn't it be dry now? Yeah, but they've released lots of photos throughout the throughout the lifespan of this game. That what Paragon Over Prime is that they have the money and they have the manpower. So it's very it's easier for Over Prime or Soul Leaf to tease us, drongo and give us grim or tease us grim and give us, for example, crunch because they do have the manpower in the back working on skins, working on heroes, working on like when Ranger says we're already testing our next hero. I can almost guarantee you they're just not testing one. But they're probably testing the quite a few to make up for their their promise of giving us a hero each month. I thought it was probably drongo. But when when Magus comes out and says Grim, all confident like that, I can't argue with it. No, you didn't think it was drongo. You thought it was wukong with an upgrade. You thought it was wukong with an upgrade. Well, we've seen a wukong tease, too. And with an upgrade development thing. Well, wukong with an upgrade. Yeah, that's what it was. Wukong's new kid. So yeah, it's I do like what they do with it, though. They're kind of playing with the community's minds or they tease you one thing and actually give you completely something else. So either way, I'm curious. The thing about overprime is for me is it's not the heroes that I'm mostly worried about. I'm more curious and anxious to see how they change up the kids. Because we know that their version of. Yeah, that's the version. It's that's the exciting part for me. I know for a fact, Drongo is not going to come out and look like the OG Paragon. Drongo is going to come out with some crazy shit like. And I'm pretty sure Grim is going to, too. But they did tease items, like, for example, for Drongo, you say they did tease this item. He still has his gag grenade. He still has this thing you shoot. Boomerang. Yeah, but the effect, it'll have to be different. He might have his kit, but not or his his weapons, but not the the effects. Mm hmm. They're going to never change up some of the abilities to see a deli. I've never seen her. I see her in pictures and wallpaper stuff related to Paragon. I haven't heard anything about her. If you look at their there's a build website out there for the Paragon, they were from heroes and they have Adele's entire kit on it. They do like somebody has that in mind, her entire kit. There you go for Adele. They've even got they've even got her her lore written up. That's kind of why I say Grim, too. They have Grim. They have Grim, Greystone, somebody else and Adele on there. They don't have Grim's kit or Greystone's kit, but they do have Adele's kit on my chat. Charlie actually is saying Grim is on the screen, but not in the game. Mm hmm. So. Yes, sir. But I'm upset. Is Wukong going to be rude for six months again? I don't know. This is something that Jellie needs talks about all the time. The company that can introduce Wukong in an unbroken state will be what will get mad props. Mm hmm. I don't like what better company than an Asian influence company to introduce Wukong. It's the old Paragon. Wukong was so good at the like I had that old Paragon. Wukong was you pick them just to fuck around with the enemy teams. If you were good with them, just to fuck around with the trolly hero. Very trolly. If if if you were good with them, dude, he was every letter of alphabet. He was AIDS, a moving STD. Every it was a harsh life for you in that lane. Like, I'm a I'm a back and it in me tower has been destroyed. And it's like, God damn, dude, he's so fast at it. But I was thinking that hopefully they would be not hopefully. I don't care for drunk. I was thinking they'd be releasing Django. But with once again, like, man, you've seen it with this sultry tone room. I'm persuaded also mostly because he is on the title screen. So I think it would make sense for them to get everyone that is on the title screen involved in the game first and then move on from there. But I am super excited to see it down in the game with how well they deal with Xena and how Xena is my favorite character in the game to play almost like she is so much fun. And she's kind of busted, but she is so much fun. It just makes me excited for the character. Yeah, lower your voice when you say busted. Xena is a fun hero. Busted. Yeah, yeah, God forbid you get caught by Xena, man. I hate Xena for that reason. I'm always that victim. No matter what character I am, I stun her, I teleport. She's just like on me. There's no way there's no escape. I hear the sound of her starting her dash when I'm not playing the game. I'll like be in the shower and then I'll hear like that. Ching Ching, like as it charges up. Oh, God, she's coming like that. The distance, the damage, the knockup, you know, was coming after it. Xena is the most efficient and fun assassin in the game. It's maybe not more than Clark, but what are you doing? They dream about Xena in the shower. Hey, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Yeah, I just remember the combo. Yeah. What's up with that? Listen, I did not buy that skin. What skin? Oh, no, I think Xena again, though, not great for comp because she's very easily easy to counter. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, because her ultimate anybody, because her ultimate will always the person she alts, her last hit will be on that person. So you just move into your team. It distributes the damage evenly. Yeah, that last hit does some a we damage, but now she's in the middle of your team and you just destroy her friend. Or you just run her like I was talking about with Gideon, you just go under a tower for that last hit. And now she's taking tower damage. The fact that she doesn't freeze you in place and you're still running as she's alting you. Same with Narvash as soon as she's done, you just don't get another tower before she can get her other combination off. I mean, Petruva, how many Xenas are alting you before you're basically dead? Like if I'm alting you and I'm playing Xena, I'm just I'm listen, this is the chef's kiss. This is the cream on the cake. You're already probably gone, but I'm not going to wait for my other cooldowns to come up off. You my apologies. But no, I also agree that Xenas, like most characters, it feels like unless you're rampage. Well, no, yeah, no, unless your rampage are relatively easy to counter. And there are like Calari, it's so good in a rank. It feels like maybe just being like silver one and just smashing my skull trying to get into gold. But I I don't think people know wards exist. I was going to say she's countered by a 50 gold item. How is Calari good? They don't they don't know they're real. They don't believe in them. I'm like, hey, there's this. What do you there's this item that lets you see someone when they're invisible and they're like blasphemy. Oh, shit, I'm being ganged by Calari again. It's just like who she's that she's she's very pup stompy as it is now. And I kind of I just kind of wish, you know, at least in my games, people were evolving to spin that 50 gold, not only to see her coming to do their counterwards and stuff, but that is what it is. And over the course of the game, like growing and the community kind of getting older and aging, but the game for those who do stick with it, it'll it'll pick up. It'll pick up the small antidote from that menace game that I was talking about. We were up against the Calari in the prime pit. She got really low in viz. And I threw my Gideon combo at the front of the portal and caught her. Nice didn't know where she was. But I figured I bet she said for that portal, like a destroyer. We're eating her like a book, man. Since I wasn't much of a grim player, is there anything in the kid you would like to see changed? Or do you guys want an original grim? I like the way fault did grim, actually. Fault didn't do a lot of things right, but they did grim right. Grim was cool as fucking fault. Like he was a complete and total stance dancer. He had three different modes that you could change to. And it's a lot of skill there. And his and all of his his modes affected all of his abilities, not just his basic attacks, like in his yellow mode, it was still a lob that would displace people. Red mode, it was a straight line shot that would slow people, but it would it wouldn't go through minions. And then blue mode would deal extra ability damage. And it was a straight line shot that was a little bit lower range, but it would pass through me. And then your long range was your blue or the short range was the blue. The blue was shorter range than the red. Yes, but longer than the yellow, I think. I've never played grimoire in my life. These are just colors to me. They ran on an energy system instead of mana in your yellow mode would regenerate energy on a basic attack hit. Blue mode, you had longer basic attack range. And I think red mode, you had faster basic. They consumed but they consumed mana. That's though. That's why you see blue grims as a break breaker. A hundred percent agree. Grim better not have a 20 second, 20 second ultimate this time around. I don't know if you guys remember just before Paragon died back in model version 42, Grim's like every 15 seconds. He was whipping that fucking ball at everybody. Was it an auto lock too? Yes, it was an auto lock that traveled and traveled through terrain. The only thing that could block it was a fucking steel wall. Yeah, I remember. I know when you said, Graham, I cringed for some reason. I'm like, why does that pain bring me fear? Oh, man, what there is a comment that was here earlier that I kind of wanted to bring up. It was someone talking about broken items versus broken characters. And it kind of prompted in my head the question. Are there any is that my cat? Yeah, in the back. Hey, what's a cat with your with your anime stuff? Yeah, she is. Luna, get down. I'm trying to thank you. I appreciate that. Are there any items in the game currently that you think are too good, too prominently powerful, too much at the forefront of any archetype? Don't say as in me as I like it. But I know what mangus is going to answer. Hit me. Well, I mean, range, range or point. No, teardrop is fine. The ranger pointed out the two overly powerful items right now, which is the fruit of greed or whatever the fuck it's called. And the pendant of confinement. As far as that, the as Zemmys, you mentioned Zemmys. Zemmys isn't overpowered. The mask giving you AOE damage at 600 gold. That's overpowered. Oh, that's too good. Yeah. The component item, the tier two component item for Zemmys, that's what needs to be the golden cost for that. It needs to be increased exponentially. Yeah, it is. It is super good. It's super. Poe and Lowe, do you have any items in your opinion are kind of busted before I say my piece busted? No, actually, I just one thing I don't like about items being busted is that the moment people hear, oh, this is what you built. I see two drops on almost every character, every single caster mid laner. I even see teardrop on supports now. I don't know, people just have this notion that when you build this like this for full damage, everybody just builds the same exact thing. I'm a big fan of tweaking stuff. I'm a big fan of trying other things. Maybe I can hit harder. Maybe I can out damage my enemy if I'm not necessarily this build is the best. Not every single caster has to have teardrop. It is very powerful. The teardrop is very powerful and it's annoying, but there are other items the way you combine them, I think you can make little masterpieces out of them too. But no, I don't think anything is really overpowered. I do like Zima story though. I just learned to use that on almost every one of my tanks. Like every time I play steel, I got it right on there. It's super. Oh, Soul Reaper 100% agree, bro. Yep, that was the one I was going to bring up. Yep, Soul Reaper beat me to it. I am, I hate that. Oh, it renders, it renders count as almost useless because you can't fucking kill anybody in a full rotation. I'm like, oh my God, also Reaper, since you're here, I actually wanted to thank you specifically because I hadn't used pendant once and then I was streaming a few days ago and like Reaper came to my channel. He's like, that build has a disturbing lack of pendant. Like what the shit is pendant? And he's like, the second item you build on every single mage. And I was like, okay, Reaper's a smart lad. I'm gonna give it a whack. I'll try it. Holy shit, that item is inside. God damn. Reaper and I are on the same wavelength as far as builds and what's good in builds. It's just that he is mechanically way the fuck better than me. But a green gemstone on every fucking lane? That's what I wanted to thank mangoes and Viking Jedi for. I use that as Murdoch just to stay in lane and farm a lot longer. It works. It works like crazy. The only two heroes that should not be taking green gemstone or your jungler and your support. Everybody else should be rocking that green gemstone. The only time you should get rid of it is if you're going to pick up a smite so you can help your jungler. I love it when Ray snipes me and I stand still for six seconds to negate the next chunk of the snipe. He snipes me like, mm-hmm. And it's back. It's so stupidly good. I saw, it's so stupid. Like, if you think about it, why would it you take the free like 80 shield every six seconds? It's it's free. Staying your lane, farm. It has health and mana regen. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. I don't want it to be never. I think it is fine as it is in the game. But fanatics, fanatics is just a bane of my existence. It's for me, it's just the shield. The stats on it, the crit, whatever. But every time on every carry that I get you low, you're like, Oh, I'm like, what am I fighting for? You're already you're already shooting me for 900 damage. You don't need the shield to let me have this. It's just, oh, my God. This is this is not coming from like like logical space of mine. I'm just tilted as a jungler over the fanatics. I don't it is so annoying. Oh, man. OK, thank you. Thank you for coming to my to my Ted talk about that bullshit. Still more green, Joe. Or Eric, go ahead. I mentioned about the five plays of the week, submissions there. What did we have there for today? I know we didn't get as much of submissions and we will be postponing that, I guess. You can talk about a little bit about that. They're stunned. I know we've said we are waiting for more submissions, you know, within the holiday period. People didn't really submit a lot of clips and to make it fair, we're not going to have one today. We're just going to postpone it for next week and get more clips. Yeah, as we mentioned before, we're going to have the winning submissions that we're getting right now. We have the two weeks, the two winners, the pentakill and the the Murdoch snipe. We're waiting for more submissions. So when when when we pick a winner out of out of the most recent the most recent ones, we can put these guys head to head for a gift prize at the end. This week, we only had one submission. Obviously, it's the holiday season. Obviously, people are going out of town, so we're going to postpone it till next week. So we have enough for our viewers to vote on. Yeah, and partially that was my fault because I didn't advertise it at all or send out the link and all this. I will do that this time and make sure that we have plenty of more submissions for that. My bad, guys. That's why we're not doing the pop five plays this week. It is my fault. I can't believe this. Once again, my absolute state, my absolute state. It's all of us. We need more submissions. How dare you solely not advertise. But we are getting some good ones like that honorary one last week with the Chevy. They all go and throw the portal. Mm hmm. Yeah, I've actually realized that before and it was so good because I didn't know at the time. And I was like, you can't get away. I found that out. I'm like, oh, that's a tool. I mean, so frequently, it is never. Oh, my God. Anything you land on the enemy as they're trying to escape through the portal. And you land a gadget bomb. And he's like, OK, the door through heaven. It's right there. Now, come back here. You're just going down on the other side. Speaking goes like ever since we've announced this, Raven is getting one or two pentakills a week. Yeah, the submissions are he's he's always Jesus Christ. He gets better all the time. Yeah, yeah, that's just. That's Raven for you, man. That you guys want to watch a really good A.D.C. Go watch Raven on my one Twitch R.A.V. Fucking great player. Say out of his way, though, he'll kill you on the whole team. You ain't all your friends. We should we should make a custom match between soul reaper and Raven and just all the spectators. Eat up popcorns and watch and play. Let them fight. That's two different. Like Raven's an A.D.C. means soul reapers mid main. Like that's too. I mean, soul reapers, soul reapers. Also the player where you give many hero and. He becomes dangerous. Menace was telling us to nerf him or soul reaper. Nerf soul reaper. Well, we've been going for about an hour and a half. Do you guys want to go and wrap it up? Or do you guys have any other topics that you wanted to. I'm all good. This message from Ranger was an important message. There was it was it was a well needed message because a lot of the community members were actually. Surprised that overprime went quiet being as busy as they are. So I can't wait to see what they're going to do. I'm waiting in the space for those three dots of loads. Yeah, we're waiting on low right. Loads. Loads being sneaky right now. Just just. Oh, those being a sneaky girl. What? What's up in the job? What are you putting ideas in your guys's brains? But no, no, no, no. Why don't you put it all off stream? I feel I feel a pack. I kind of want to do something. Honestly, I kind of want to do something. Besides like top five. Yeah, yeah, besides like top five, I kind of want to get the community's engagement. This is to be studied, right? I kind of want to get the community's engagement in this podcast where we do something a little bit different if you go around it, where we invite we have competitive play. Like I want to see Soul Reaper against Raven, for example, like what you guys said. I want that fight to happen on a live stream. Do you want to do one V ones that we comment on people? Yes. And and the winner gets a reward. I love it. I want to see the say yo one V one me. I want to see here. I really do phrase with Lo said, have you guys seen the movie Gladiator? She's bringing back the games. Spiritual Soul, I don't have that link right now. I don't know if you have me on Discord, but send me a DM on this on Discord. I'll try and get that link to you. Don't want to just be like trying to one of you on Soul Reaper. You want to be one of them? Is that like us like, you know, in direct challenge? He's don't don't make me live up to my name because you know, I want to. Oh, I want to don't make me say that on stream. Chill out. No, I need to train. I'm getting the hyperbolic time chamber for a little bit and then I'm going to come out and I'll be ready. I'll be ready for them. So much respect for how much respect you demand of the community. Super cool dude. Let it be known right now. If you want to call somebody out, call them out in the comments of the video or or on Twitter with low or stunts, Twitter or or Ego's Twitter, whatever. However you want to do it, call somebody out and we will televised your one V one mid lane. We've got to come up with some rules and shit. But a tater mode, a tater mode. I will one V one. Anyone whose name does not rhyme with Polish keeper. Just an hour ago, we were telling you guys not to be shit talkers. Stop now, we're we're asking you guys to shit talk. The shit, shit talk is fun. Shit talk is fine. Toxicity is not there's a difference between shit talk and toxicity. Oh, my God. There we go. Well, hop off. Hop off, Tarkov. So Reaper, take me mid. Oh, God, I'm so bad. Yeah, so we stop ruining the one game I'm good at. Get off there and then they come to overprime. When it gets to my space, it's personal. Oh, my God, it was instant. The main came from under my bed and like I heard you were talking. Shit, you go. Oh, shit. Yeah, dude, Reaper, dude, I would hell of love to fucking play you did. I feel like I don't learn a lot from the situation and you learn a little bit about me, too. Well, we're going to take a good time to make boss levels. Whoever is leaving is going to go to Soul Reaper and slowly just go up the ranks. I want to see something like that. I want to see Manga's Gideon Soul Reaper and Reaper said he's going to give him a freebie. He's only going to use his cue on his own. If you're going to bring the smoke, bring the smoke. What do you want, bro? Pure, you can get it any day, any time. I'm going to call that in the chat now right here. And you guys want to get ego checked, you know, where to find me right here on pop. Well, this is an amazing idea, and I love it. Oh, we're right on it, then. We can't happen for these people. We're a combat ladder. Oh, shit. All right. Well, let's start wrapping things up, though. That's something that we'll need to explore. We need one. Norpesh, one of the one would take forever. Oh, that is something we will definitely explore in the future. Ogre violence. But yeah, let's start wrapping things up. Ego, any final thoughts at work? Everybody find you if they want to watch you. You guys can find me with my foot and so repossess. Oh, shit. Oh, oh, I'm already here. So we were all that foreign Tarkov. I just went up over time. He's in the loading screen right now. Right. You're just being like, you don't want this. But no, you guys can find me on my Twitch. The ego is I've been streaming a little bit more. I used to be streaming about 15 to 10 minutes after we're done here. I'll be uploading some of our YouTube content pretty soon. And more than anything else, you can find me personally here on pop. Hey, stop. Final thoughts and working. They find you my Twitch and my YouTube. I respect all your players. I'm not challenging any of you guys. Fuck that. I'm just a spectator. I don't want my foot up. Anybody. So you were supposed to be beside me. I'm just going to spectate. He's like, I don't want to be in the line of fire. If you guys want to play in each other's asses, just fucking. There are no any final thoughts at work. And they find you not at all. We're going to work on this idea and hopefully you can make it happen for you guys again. Happy holidays, guys. Happy New Year's. I hope you guys all be safe and enjoy your time. If you guys want to find me, all you got to do is click on my name and Magnus's stream right now, and it'll take you to everything about me on my links, Nirana. Yep, I have everybody's. If you're watching the YouTube version, I have everybody's links in the description below so you can check them out. I highly suggest you do give them a sub, drop them a follow, do whatever you want to do, but enjoy their content. That is going to be the Paragon, the overprime partners crew signing off. If you are, if you want to find me, you can look for me crying in the shower after I want to be one soul reaper. That's going to be it for this week. You guys have a good one. Keep waving. I haven't ended yet. Keep waving. Wave harder.