 Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us for tonight's program. For those of you who I haven't met, I'm Heather Ferrell. I'm the curator and director of exhibition at Relentless City Arts. And I am delighted to introduce our guest tonight for the program, Dr. Pablo Boz, Abdullah Huzi, Niki Nibirini, and Paula Higa. Before I turn my time over to my colleagues, Dr. Kristen Dijkstra, I'd like to share a few more remarks about our exhibition and sponsors. Well, here now, Art and Migration brings together seven accomplished national and international artists whose work explores concepts of borders, movement, and migration. The exhibit aims to convey the complexity of migration as well as the fluidity of borders. And it's in the here and now. It's in the present moment. It's in the present place. There is an invitation to viewers to widen our perspective of these ideas beyond your statistics or mere media depictions. During our present moment of unprecedented migration and displacement, here now is a timely exhibit. And I feel, Ruth feels, untold histories and personal experiences through new expressive visual languages. And so my job tonight is to do thank yous, and I'd like to first thank my co-curator and curie now, Dr. Sarah Rogers, who is here tonight. Thank you, Dr. Sarah. She's the visiting assistant professor of history of art and architecture at Middlebury College, as well as former colleague of mine in Qatar, where we worked at the Montauk, the Arab Institute of Modern Art, as well as a Burlington City Arts Advisory Board member. Thought-provoking exhibitions such as here now would not be possible without community support. And I'd first like to thank our 2024 exhibition year sponsor, Massimo Bank, the Maslow Family Foundation, and the Vermont Arts Council and the National Endowment for the Arts. And with that, I'd like to turn my time over to Dr. Kristen Dykstra to introduce tonight's moderator. Thank you. Can you all hear me well? Okay. Hello to those of you out on Zoom as well. We are here tonight in recognition of the fact that our local and regional cultures are vibrant, they're energetic, and they are continuously changing. One source for that renewal is the arrival of artists and thinkers who bridge experience of life elsewhere to our home spaces around the state of Vermont. This panel serves to draw out the ways in which the arts give us important and alternative perspectives on topics that may not get their due of another arena. Migration is a very rich historical phenomenon, and the arts help to unsettle the everyday rhetoric that reduces it to those talking points in the media, which are all too often reductive and dehumanizing. Here now, art and migration works in the opposite direction. It is nonconformist, and it is insistently human. We are also proud to be initiating our contributions to that 2024 National Endowment for the Arts grant with the exhibitions that you see here in the building tonight. This grant supports programming that allows teens in particular from our area to explore and create contemporary expressions of identity in the arts. The panel serves to expand the conversation in a different way, and it offers wide-ranging unexpected points of view on the topic of migration, spurring reflection that is essential for rich and democratic conversations. This panel is being recorded as well as shown on Zoom tonight, and with that it is my honor to introduce our panel's moderator. I had to cut him by a way down. Paolo Vos is professor of geography and geosciences and the director of global and regional studies at the University of Vermont. He is a migration scholar and an urban geographer whose work focuses on refugees and resettlement in North America and Europe, as well as on cities of the global south, the politics of food access, and environmental disciplines. Many of you might be interested in his surprisingly readable, although specialized book that was published in 2020 and titled Refugees in New Destinations and Small Cities, Resettlement in Vermont. Others will know Paolo from another perspective, which is through his service to organizations based in the city of Burlington and around the state of Vermont, whether you enjoy Paolo as a scholar creating interdisciplinary knowledge about our area as a community leader who helps to make things happen around our state. I am sure that you will also enjoy Paolo as our moderator. Thank you so much. So just to give you a little bit of a sense of the structure of the panel today, I'll give a brief overview and introduction to the panelists who have joined us here today. Each of them will present the short introduction to their own work, we'll have the panelists each. We'll then have a brief discussion amongst the panel and I've asked the audience members to hold their questions before we initiate that discussion. Oh, sorry. Okay, so let me give you a brief introduction to our panelists. So for this panel on Migration and Contemporary Cultures in Vermont, we are happy to welcome two members of the Global Collective, to Burlington City Months tonight. This collective was originally founded in Kabul, Afghanistan in 2014 by Omayed Sharifi and Kabir Mokamel. Both of the founders along with many other members of the collective now live outside Afghanistan. Our speakers tonight are currently based in southern Vermont. Today, the Global Website for Art Lords emphasizes a commitment to peace. Alongside this commitment, the group provides a statement about the value of art. Art opens up space for emotions without affiliation. It stimulates critical thought and helps people understand that war is a commonly shared experience and that only a common effort coming from within society can bring about peace in Afghanistan, in South Asia, and in the Middle East. We are honored to host Nagina Azimi and Abdullah Afizi in this panel, where we can hear more about their ways of bridging earlier experiences into the work they have been creating since they moved to Vermont. Each of them brings a specific point of view and their own individual relationships to art as well as activism into the ongoing collaborations that redefine art boards in the here and now. Artist and activist Nagina Azimi joined the Art Lords Collective in 2017 in Kabul, Afghanistan. Today, many members live outside the country and the collective has redefined itself more globally. Now, based in Vermont, Azimi holds a degree in law and brings a strong interest in human rights and social empowerment to discussions of public art. Abdullah Afizi is also an art, is an artivist with Art Lords, a group originally founded in Afghanistan and now existing in the Global Arts Collective. They are known for creating murals and painting dedicated to social justice, psychological awareness, and shape. Afizi is a curator at the non-profit arts organization, Epsilon Spires. He has collaborated and partnered with Brattleboro Museum and Arts Center and other institutions and businesses. He currently, Afizi currently lives in southern Vermont. Our third panelist is Paola Higa. One of the important features of here and now art and migration is its presentation of contemporary artists who synthesize cultural forms across multiple disciplines. Lydia Nakashima, for example, went through research as an ethnographer in her work as a visual artist with powerful results. Paola Higa brings dance, visual art, and poetry together in her installation, now showing on the ground level here at Burlington City Arts. Higa is a choreographer and movement artist who has been making dances, teaching, and performing between Brazil and the U.S. USA for more than 30 years. Her performance and video works explore feminism, discrimination, and the politics of movement. She creates these works at intersections between dancing and visual arts. As a performer, she danced in works by Mark Morris, Daniel Bernard, Romain, and Jennifer Monson, among others. Higa has received numerous grants and her recognitions include best screen dance in the Los Angeles International Film Festival, the genres and performances film festival in Aveiro, Portugal, Diorama International Film Festival in India, 2022 Nupu Fest in New York City, Imark in Brazil, the ARFF around International Film Festival in Berlin, Germany, and the Florence Dance on Screen Festival in Italy. Higa is assistant professor and resident choreographer for the School of the Arts Dance Program at the University of Vermont. She currently lives and works in Los Angeles, Vermont. So please join me in welcoming our panel and we will begin the presentations within a minute. I'm sorry. Good evening, everyone. Thank you, Pablo, for the introduction. My name is Nagina Azimi and I'm from Afghanistan and back in my home country, I have completed my bachelor degree and also I have a degree in Fine Arts and my art journey began with working with art lords, the organization, which was based in Kabul, Afghanistan, and now it's here in Virginia and was founded in 2014 by Omeh Cherifi and Kabir Makamel. And the main goal and the main purpose of creating mural painting in Kabul streets was to convert these blast walls into a piece of art and to make a space for others to address our social challenges and to create a relationship between people and also art. And because of the unsafe security situation in our country, there was one side that our country wanted to rebuild everything from the beginning and there was other side of the government which was the opposite side of the government, the Taliban, that now they're on power and wanted to damage everything that we wanted to rebuild. So our government came up with the idea of creating or building these long blast walls to at least minimize the damage of those terrorist attacks in our country. So these blast walls also had a very negative psychological impact in our daily routine and it completely looked like that we are living in a war zone in a city and it had a very bad psychological impact. So art lords realized the opportunity to convert these blast walls into visual experience also to a very good piece of art. So my journey with art lords starts in 2017 with this mural painting which was the female orchestra, Zohra Orchestra in Afghanistan and unfortunately after the Taliban took over the country all of these paintings and mural paintings were whitewashed by the Taliban and our main focus was to support our soldiers and also to bring colors in our city and the primary goal was to highlight the significant contribution of women in our society and in rebuilding the country and to emphasize their rule and their power in building and also their involvement in peace negotiations during that time that was happening between the government and the Taliban and we wanted them to be equally involved on those peace negotiations as you can see that we created lots of mural paintings in Kabul city and also in other provinces. Most of these paintings were also aimed to promote the message of peace and harmony between our people and these were the very icon or very symbol of art lords mural painting and also to paint the prominent faces of our country. This paint, it's not the mural painting but it's a very big canvas painting that we gifted to the United Nations and it's here now will be displayed in the United Nations for over 50 years and in this painting we wanted to paint the most valuable element of Afghanistan that were very valuable for us like the mountain, the culture, the costumes, the history and every side of our lives that were very valuable for us and upon arriving into our new community in Vermont so we not only brought ourselves but we also brought our art culture and skill so it signifies that being a refugee does not mean equate to receiving not giving back so we as a part of to adopt our new community to completely adopt it we brought our art and culture and we shared our art with the students in the school with our community member and also it exemplifies the beauty of respect the beauty of growth, shared growth and also the beauty of being together and acceptance in the process of adopting our new community. Thank you so much. Good evening ladies, gentlemen and everyone in between I hope you are fine Thank you Pablo for introducing me Thank you Kristen, thank you everyone for having us today in here Thank you for having us this chance this privilege to talk about these issues and these topics today My name is Abdullah Hafizi I'm one of the member of the art lords I live in Bradbrove Vermont It has been two years that I'm living in the USA and we have been continuing our journey creating arts and different levels individually and also publicly for the different organizations and also towns So as Nagina said that we work with the art lords creating a lot of murals on blast walls in Kabul city and also some other cities in Afghanistan but after the takeover of Taliban the terrorists and August 15, 2021 it was a nightmare this picture shows everything and this was a global image right after the takeover the city was a total dead city for every one of us but what happened to art lords and to the team we had to leave the country and it was hard for all of us a lot of civilians had to flee in a different situation but we were happy that we got a good chance that we left in a very safe way but we ended up finding ourselves in Albania, a country that we had just heard its name once in schools maybe in geography but that was still beautiful we were living a very shiny life but at the same time our families were back in Afghanistan and the people that how they were living so it was like a conflict inside our own mind like how can we live in a very sparky and glamorous way of life by the beach in a very 5 star hotel while the people are like not having fun like us so it was hard for us at the same time but we still continued making murals we did a mural this one to express our gratitude and thanks to the government and the people of Albania they are really hospitable people really nice and friendly people when we were there all of us, most of them they were resonating with us and they were telling us that it was the same thing during 90s during the civil war so it was nice, we felt home I myself felt in peace and freedom we did another mural in the center of Tirana, the capital of Albania and after that we found ourselves in USA in the USA we started our artwork with a very small mural this one Angel's Wings for Experience Good at Business it was nice and then we continued making murals if you can hold on a little bit this one is a very great artwork I will have the control, thank you we got connection with Bratabro Museum Art Center they found a way to bring other muralists and they had a very different medium which was Tape Art and we got together to find a way how can we collaborate so the guys I just forgot their name but they are at the end of they are standing at the end so they said like why not to recreate all those paintings so we did a quick wash back in Afghanistan with a new medium that sounds a great idea when we did it we did a lot of almost 17 murals in the town we created 17 murals we recreated but we added a lot of elements with tape and people loved it people were so sad that stick around for a long time so that was a thing and this was a new thing for all of us and it was fun the poetry that's written in there it's about humanity one of the poems of Maulana Jalaluddin Balchi also he is famous by the name of Rumi from 11th century he writes about humanity so this one was my favorite mural around those tape art murals at the same time while we were creating murals with a tape art group we had a chance to have a grant some amount of money from Vermont Folklife Center and this was they proposed us what can you guys do with this grant it can be for children, summer camp so we said we can do something like this we can bring 15 children from the Bratterborough community the American people and also 15 kids from the Afghan community and we will bring them we will teach them dance traditional dances we will teach them art, painting drawing yeah we also dance together we cooked food traditional foods we also served the food to the public we called their parents and it was fun it was a one week art camp and it was a blast for us and also for the kids and their families in the back we had a mural that's America and also a map of Afghanistan of the elements of values related to Afghanistan's culture that is like incorporated integrated with American flag and also the map right after that we got another opportunity to create mural in Bratterborough but this was more of creating or bringing beauty to the town which is the high street mural if you ever cross your path to Bratterborough don't miss this this is very beautiful high street mural and we had a collaboration with two local artists Daniel Chiachiou and Calvin Latourie they are amazing they are great artists and this is about Vermont this mural after that we got another one which was also still a recreation of our old mural from Kabul but a little change with a little addition to the background patrons but that is patron but not exactly it's a miniature Persian miniature from Afghanistan this is the full image we got another opportunity with partney international school where we co-created a lot of four murals students and we collaborated got our ideas together and made four murals with the kids this was another artwork with vital voices it's a non-profit organization who works for empowerment in Washington DC so this was a mural for women we had a privilege to see Clinton that time and she appreciated our artwork and thanks to her for that right after that we had another chance with counterpart international in DC they offered us a mural to create for them about women rising together and right after that we again partnered with vital voices for women empowerment and women's voices and peace and we are still continuing making artwork and murals back in Bratterborough and also outside of Bratterborough in Bennington soon in the future we have a lot of things a lot of murals to do thank you so much hi everyone first of all thank you so much BCA Pablo for having me here Kristen and I feel honored to be here with you too and represent my community so yes I'm Paula Higa I am choreographer scholar mother wife woman and the artistic director of my own dance company Paula Higa dance and yeah my artistic interest lies in exploring themes that emerge the intersection of dance and visual arts so my works are rooted in feminism and aim to shed light to discriminatory issues that persist in our society so through my work I seek to amplify the voices of underrepresented groups and engage my audience to reflect on social issues as power inequalities gender not power hierarchies gender inequalities and patriarchal structures that shape our world so based on these themes I created the Migrant Body Project which is a solo performance and a collaboration with visual artist Deborah Weisberg where I examine my skin and the second part is the film it's a screen dance which is now being exhibited here now created by Heather and Sarah and then I also create a live performance which is the live version of the film that premiered at the Eichmann family farm last spring it's a huge barn so based on this interest like I said I created these three projects so of course the Migrant Body you know inertia from my experience as being an immigrant in the state of Vermont so I started to face things that when I lived in Texas in Tennessee I did an experience like people asking me to can you repeat your accent understand my accent questioning about my skin color I'm not a white woman here but if I go back to the Brazil I am so I said this is interesting what about people who doesn't have this privilege like me of changing my ratio status so all these situations that I was exposed triggered me this critical question so who is not migrating who is not a migrant in this world so this scene for me represents a lot because for me birth is the first migration so if you think of the word migration is a movement that people are dislocating from one place to the other so I thought about the birth of okay so we are in this wet environment breathing water soundproof a little bit and suddenly they grab your head you have to breathe air you need to scream you need to learn how to speak so you are in a new environment so in a poetic way for me birth is our first migration and we all went through this process which make us equal and then I also have the image of the doors for me the fact that you leave your parents house to go to college is a form of migration the fact that you get married is a form of migration that you find another job or another house anyway we are always open doors and closing doors in our life so for me is migration too you know and then on the top of that I ask for the film I collaborate with international artists people from Canada, Brazil local the film was all made here in Vermont my dancers they are all locals and I also ask Mario Higa a professor at Middlebury College and my husband to write a poem that could in short words simplify this idea of this desire of you wanted to migrate but you can't so he came up with the yellow chrysanthemum which is a flower that is stuck with the roots in the soil but wants to go and explore to see other colors other shapes, other forms but the only way that this flower can migrate is through pollination so the film for me is something very special like I said because it was made with different parts of the world and yes we won some awards in Europe or North America, South America and if you have a chance please go to the grounds zero and see the film and yes I don't know that was fascinating thank you all for presenting some of your work I'm just going to ask a few questions to lead us off and then we'll turn to the audience as well Kristen in her introduction and Heather as well talked a little bit about the really reductive and politicized ways in which we tend to think about migration today and a lot of this kind of noise that surrounds the notion of what migration can be it really struck me as I looked at what you were presenting some of the ways in which you were responding to things that are going on around you and I wondered just to begin with if you can talk a little bit about who some of your audiences are when you started by showing the murals on the glass wall it actually made me think a little bit about the murals I see cities like Delfast when they were kind of playing in space we talked a little bit about the purpose of some of the murals that you made when you showed this range of new art that you created here in Vermont or in the U.S. or in Albania it seemed to speak to all sorts of different kinds of audiences that you are working in and I was wondering if you can talk a little bit about that and similarly, Paula in thinking about these different migration journeys that you described and the different places that you've also exhibited your work. I'm wondering if you can all of you talk a little bit about who you made this art for and also sorry, it's a really long question but a little bit about making this art for the outside world when you talked about these pieces that you've talked and pieces that you've had commissioned and art that you might make for your own community so can you talk a little bit about the audience that you're taking? So basically we are doing our artwork first for ourselves for our own people that they are back in our home country I mean we are here we have the whole freedom to talk to exercise our own basic rights but there are tons of our community member our people in our country that they are deprived from their very basic rights like going to school women's and girls cannot go to school and they have been deprived from their very fundamental rights so basically it's for us for our people and our audience is our new community here and also the whole other people that they can understand our mural paintings here it's completely different from Afghanistan but it's not that we have changed our aim or our goal our mission our mission is to advocate our mission is to raise our voices and those voices that they cannot be heard I mean our people so basically mostly our new people our new community here is our own audience for all of our mural paintings Actually this question has so many aspects in Afghanistan our murals we wanted to be heard recently I have found and I have like deeply truly understood how it really means to be heard and to be seen and to be valued through my failed relationships and so yeah experiences teaches us so that's how I learned yeah so we wanted to be heard back in Afghanistan we wanted to share these murals and also send these ideas or these messages to the Taliban specifically that what they were doing exactly and also to the government we are seeing you we have eyes we see everything the deal that you are doing with America with Qatar with the Taliban we are seeing you because you are betraying us so that was one part the other part that we were advocating for women women like there is still patriarchy in Afghanistan and that was the other part women empowerment to raise women's power and also for the children's right there are a lot of street children and they don't have food they don't have clothes to wear shoes so it has a lot of aspects coming back to USA we still wanted to be heard and continue our advocacy for social justice while we are still here we are more safe we can still raise our voices for the people back in Afghanistan and a lot of people can resonate with our mural artwork and the in Vermont or in Brattleboro our people the community they are the people who we want to share our murals and we want to be heard by them and the other part that I do murals sometimes on commission personally or individual paintings for myself is most specifically about the psychological issues that we have that's loneliness that's very on rise nowadays specifically with the Gen Z and the late Malinians like myself because we have been feeling isolating sometimes and why is this happening because in the Middle East or far Middle East Afghanistan or Central Asia we never felt like this because we had family, friends despite the fact that we do have friends in here but still there is a void and somehow my aim is to find a way where we can connect together back and share more empathy, more closeness these things because we are failing to gain these values back we are more on the superficial parts of the world more to the materialist part of this world so that's another part for my individual artwork for me it's kind of the same I think as an artist we are always creating first for ourselves and then it's a consequence if the world embraces our work, wow, great if not, great too so I also feel that in life what is my purpose here for me dance is bigger than the dance and this is what I want to leave when I migrate to another place so I hope that my work stays, that people will comment, that people will recycle the ideas and that a change will come that's interesting Paula, you also mentioned some of the unexpected aspects of doing this work here in Vermont having a different racial perceptions of race here so I'm curious for all three of you what are some of the challenges if any that you've experienced in trying to make this kind of greater practice here in Vermont are there any specific things that come to mind as being more difficult in making this art here in Vermont personally to me I really want to create a lot of art work but because we are migrated now here alone we don't have our families here and the families they don't have a chance to work in there so we work full time outside our field art and so that's a challenge that despite the fact that I want to create a lot of art and I can't because I have to send money back to my family so that's a big challenge someone who is really passionate about like he can die for art so that's the biggest challenge and yeah economic or financial thing is the first one and then also psychological issues that we get we can't focus sometimes like myself I wouldn't say we but myself focus is really important for art making or creativity I do lose my focus and yeah we do miss our families and the other challenges would be sometimes like we might not be able to create some political art work in a town that doesn't need like the high street mural if you guys remember the high street mural that wall was empty for years in there and a lot of artists had applied for town's grant to get that grant and do some mural on that but they more wanted political stuff which the government or the town municipality they didn't want something like that they wanted to give it to the youth and it was something like we got this chance and we had to create something for the beauty of the town so not a lot of places or communities or public would want something political as well because politics it sucks who likes I don't like politics so that's also a part of it could be so like I would like to create art that's more about love harmony empathy connections like these things I'm very emotional person so I'm on that part of I'm away from politics yeah thank you yeah for me you know I come from a country that is so misogynated you know so you see a palette of colors in Brazil and I wanted my cast my dancers to you know to be like my experience there so I had a hard time to find dancers that were not white so I remember attending the black experience not this year last year and I said oh so many black people here where are these people that I don't see on the streets you know and I connect to a dancer but when I explained the project and the cast I don't know perhaps she felt intimidated and she didn't join us and then I said oh my gosh I went to I think was Momix was at the and I said let me see if I can find more dancers only white people in the audience and I even told Mario say wow I thought segregation was over you know so all this you know lack of diversity in this state was challenging for me you know and this is something that I discussed with my dancers and but I said you know let's do our best and the work's there but definitely you know it was challenging yeah I agree and just to add because back in Afghanistan we never called ourselves like an artist but mostly we called ourselves an activist and our all mural painting were somehow connected to political issues that we were facing during that time and now that we are here it's been changed and when we are getting a commission we somehow our mind goes back to like advocacy and we want to paint this but there's like I mean most of the time we get a notice not political mural painting so it should be just the beauty I mean I agree it should be the beauty the harmony the peace but not every mural can include all those things so we have to be very accepted with very diverse paintings or activities or activism but here most of our works were very calm and very peace harmony connected with love and peace and somehow we are very happy we felt very good during Well let me ask you a little bit on that question of how we talk about more difficult subjects you know migration as we've said already is a very controversial subject I often feel teaching classes with students I wish I was just teaching I don't know a class about food and maybe that would be easier less politically charged so does migration also play a role in the kind of art that you do our lives obviously very central to what it is that you are what you're doing how do you talk about migration in this particular moment in the world where migration has such resonance both positive and negative for different kinds of people in what ways you talked a lot about all the different kinds of forms that migration might take do you also talk about migration in this much more political political way Well with my dancers we had a lot of discussions because there are Jewish there was a girl Jew and black dancer so a one that is transgender so I think that's a you know even this for a day this we discussed the transition of being a woman through now a man you know so this for us was a form also of migration anyway there was so many possibilities you know but I didn't want to also focus on the negative and political side because for me in particular I think that I learned so much when I immigrated you know I think that the fact that I learned a new language a new culture I think this is so rich you know and only when you migrate when you leave that experience you feel you know how important is this process of getting to know other places even if it's a tourist you know it's important and but yeah for me is this you know of course there are political you know perspective on that like for me even the sensing of belonging where do I belong do I belong in Brazil do I belong here I feel in the middle you know because everything that I left to there kept going so when you go back my nephew is not five years old anymore you know he's getting married and I don't know the family I lost all the teenagers hood of my nephews and my parents also you know didn't see my girls growing up so there is you know the good and the bad side and also in terms of for me for instance I am an American citizen now but once I heard a foreigner you know an immigrant saying I am an American citizen on paper and this is because that's how I feel because I was not here you know during the civil rights you know I was going to understand better what racism was when I came here remember Julian what is the name of the the choreographer with the black girl Camille A Brown Camille A Brown she came to Flynn and with this piece this choreography black girl and I said why is she talking about that you know I couldn't understand how you know racism was so strong and is in this country you know because my entire you know political background was from Brazil so anyway it's a learning thing you know I don't think there's going to be a change soon but like you said you know there's the good side and the bad side you know thank you do you find that there's this tension between the kinds of murals that you want to make between as you say kind of steering clear of more political topics here and asked to commission to paint versus the activism perhaps is the inspiration for some of the work we do face issues like that but it's been just two years we haven't had so much but yeah I do express myself by telling my stories like here we are sharing a lot of things today by writing I did some writing classes where I had so many classmates totally from Bravo Vermont I mean from Vermont I mean the white people it doesn't mean like in that sense I had a total different faces where I had the chance to tell the stories I shared a lot of stories from my childhood relatively from youth from now and a lot of poetry so that was also part of my life where I could share and the murals are the other one and here this is another example where we can share our stories and yeah migration I think it's it's consciously not acceptable for anyone but subconsciously for people who migrate it's like the only way for us it would be the only way for me to choose a path because I couldn't stay back in Afghanistan I have to go forward and make a better life but it's a fact migration is a fact we have to accept it and the way it is just move on be a better person in our life for the last question I'll ask you mentioned that some of the members of the Art Lords collective are here in Vermont but there are others I think you said in Virginia so what is the coordination or collaboration with other members of the collective now do you continue to partner with them in projects? we are still a member of Art Lords although our other colleagues they are still back in Afghanistan we were 53 employees and out of 53 employees maybe 5 of us are here some of us in Tennessee and our main office and our director who lives in Virginia so we have an office we have an office in Virginia and we are connected to each other I mean as I mentioned before that our mission is the same advocacy I mean until we are actively working together we as a 5 member of Art Lords here in Vermont and we have other members back in Canada and also in Europe countries and we have been working after what happened in Afghanistan after August 15, 2021 we never stopped our mission our activities starting from Albania that we spent 8 months there we painted two murals there and when we got here we like lots of mural painting and in partnership with other organization so we are we have our own job but we are self connected to each other and we are part of Art Lords wonderful, thank you with that let me open it up to the audience and we'll see if there are questions that you would like to ask is this on? it's on I will bring you a microphone if you would like to ask a question of our panelists so just flag me down if you'd like to ask one thanks how has work that you've seen since migrating influenced your own art practices here in Vermont with that conversation work in both ways I love that question it's a sky and art difference the art what I have seen in the USA so far because I've been to so many museums in Boston in New York and here Mass Mocha the ginormous one yeah, it is a big one so what I saw, what I experienced different artworks from what we had been doing back because it's east and west so I should accept that but it really changed my perspective of art what I've been thinking what I've been imagining in my mind and how can I bring that back with the medium so what I was doing is very classic what I heard from my teacher Jenny Dunning in creative writing she said it's more of still like a classic so I was thinking how can I make my art more modern, more contemporary and creative going to these different places, visiting these places really influenced me to pivot and change the way that I was thinking previously and blend both of them in a way that I can create a totally different thing yeah, thank you well for me was wonderful because here in this state I was introduced to experimental dance and I'm very fortunate to have colleagues at U of M at the dance program who are daring, who are political who are activists so for me it's a learning experience and also I think the political story of this country thinks that I was not aware when I was in Brazil because Brazil is all about carnivals we love to party but and I was even talking to my husband about that I said how can we change traditions I said well we imagine if there is no more carnival in Brazil I said don't say that because this is part of who we are so for me I started to see dance through other lands not just commercial or technical but as an act of political act of expressing voices and I'm grateful for this experience that this state which is here, Julian was an inspiration for me and Tina and yeah I'm going to stop laughing and pointing fingers we always talking about that we are very fortunate that we ended up in Vermont a very artistic state and we have very good connection with other local artists in Brattleboro and we have been inspired by their artworks basically our artwork it is graffiti artworks but also watching other artists and their modern art and how they are collaborating with other different types of arts really inspired us and that's why we call ourselves very lucky people that all five of us ended up in here, Vermont if I may I'd like to interject a question myself this may come back around to the topic of migration but it occurred to me that also a feature that you all have in common is you have a lot of experience with collaboration and collaboration is a very current topic as well and so I'd like to ask each of you is there a moment you remember that you feel that you learned something about collaboration what advice would you give to young artists who want to learn how to be good collaborators or want to work with other people you have so many different kinds of collaboration that you've done thank you for the such a great question because this is again something that I really love it collaboration I would do individual artwork more about what is happening inside my brain but collaboration is something that's something jointly we do work together but the advice that I would give to the young generation or the new Gen Z or all the other upcoming generations that in collaboration you will bring out something amazing and unimaginable because it's bringing so many ideas together so many imaginations together it becomes something totally different while individual artwork is still good it's different but collaboration is different as well and what I would say lesson to each other listening is a very important part of collaboration and teamwork working together just create something out of what you hear from each other for me it's the same I think that when you are collaborating you have to be open to different voices and opinions and ideas and when I collaborate like in this film I was the director I invited a local filmmaker because I'm not a filmmaker to be my co-director so we were sharing opinions and ideas and I think if you are close stuck with your own ideas there's no progress because every person in the group is special they do have something to offer and so even if you are directing in a position where there's more power I think it's important for you to listen and again enjoy the process because the results you don't know but the process for me is the most important thing this entire film took me two years to come with the idea and the plot and the poem if it's your husband it's okay to say things because Mario was like no Mario I didn't like this poem but anyway we work together but if it's my husband I have the right to pick on him but anyway I think that is this be open to the process listen because no one has the truth on yourself something like that yeah the same and we are in process of learning so let's be open to any ideas or any insight from other people or other artists it adds more value to your artwork and the result would be outstanding also like to see if we have a question coming in from zoom audience I think we do should I bring you the mic back there so Jennifer asked she runs a resettlement program in Norfolk, Virginia and goes back and forth to Brattle Borough working with SIT slash ECDC and is curious where the art lords are located based in Virginia and she's doing her PhD research on conflict migration and would love to connect with everyone from the VA to our art lord community if possible our director and the office located in Virginia and Ashburn Virginia we have our website art lords both in Facebook and in Instagram and also you can Google it and you will find our address there so it's basically Ashburn Virginia and if you want to meet us we are here Brattle Borough please feel free to flag me down if you would like to ask a question we have a little bit of time left yes I'm going to make three statements I want to know what you have to say about them they're about politics I'm going to say painting a mural in Brattle Borough Montt is a political act telling your story is a political act in collaboration with the political act what do you think of that I mean as I said earlier that I stay away from politics because that's the only reason that I'm here today in the USA apart from my family and a lot of friends that are like found their ways into different cities and a lot of people like me exactly from different countries Middle East Latin America or Asian countries so I stay away but I do have the guts to face these kind of words or sentences from those kind of people where I can answer them in a very better way that this is a reality we have to accept it today if you're in the USA you're also your ancestors world they were migrated they migrated to the USA you're not here originally from East America and this is the reality yeah you people were born in here and so you're from America but your ancestors are exactly from Europe or from other countries so we have to have that acceptance otherwise there will be more diversion more differences differences will create more tension more and more so where we will lead to that so we need to be have a radical acceptance that psychologists say we need to have radical acceptance so that really helps when you have that feeling of acceptance it calms your inner person really down and makes you a better human being thank you well I agree political arts is political and life is political so yes I am a political artist and yes I'm a devotee for some respect you know and it's life you know what I mean how can you separate politics from the arts some again I think that's the people who have different opinions but no in my work no I'm trying to make a statement you know yes definitely this political act while I'm sitting here talking with you all and my my own sister and brothers back in Afghanistan they cannot do the same thing that I'm doing now here it is a political act and as I mentioned that maybe our mural paintings are different our presentation and goal is still the same and it's political and as you mentioned that we are here to make a statement and I've been working with students in a school and I've been giving them presentation about my country my culture it is a political act and presenting Persian words on the wall of a school it's a political act so it is I cannot say something I mean I do think that it's a political act absolutely but I think it's a very particular kind of political act that you can do in Bridalberg of Vermont or in Vermont in ways that we are in the midst of the dumbest cultural war that I could imagine in this country really, really ridiculous kinds of ostrich over what it means to have Persian words painted in a school and that's the challenge that I think we continue to grapple what does it mean to even talk about the tradition in not using words that are incredibly difficult but I think that that is so I'm always amazed by the courage that people demonstrated making this kind of performing what this means we have time for one final question and you get the last question so here it comes thank you for giving me the last question it needs to be a good one I wanted to thank you for sharing your story and your work and I think it's really important to talk about this topic and issue especially in Burlington, Vermont where the diversity is not very much so my question is I'm really excited for your future plan so I wanted to ask if you have unlimited funding and time and space what would you make of I wish I mean that would be a blessing in the sky I would I would devote my whole life even if I reincarnate I will still do it because I really love all parts of art performing arts visual arts all of them I love dance I do dance I write I paint I draw so all those parts are amazing I do like films movies I'm very obsessed with Hollywood the same as childhood that was a part that I already know about the USA a lot but most of them were not true oh yeah back to your question I would devote my whole life my each second to art I will create as much art as I can I wouldn't like compare myself but Van Gogh he died very early but he created so much art that still is there and people are monetizing his artwork today yeah well for me I see screen dance as a form to promote my work a little bit more to distribute my work a little bit more than if I bring dancers to tour because it requires funding but since you said unlimited I think I would take my dancers to perform around the world but for me definitely I would like to continue this examination on what we are doing in this world what we are going to leave here and I also I think about the solar eclipse I think about this is a time for us to stop instead of that's okay but make yourself a reflection in this time that we are all there in this collective moment in the dark what's the meaning of darkness how can we go to situations that are horrible but come out stronger you know so I want to continue this you know fight for like I said on the represented groups which now I am part because if I go back to Brazil I have my white privilege you know but now that I'm here in the United States of America and I am in the BIPOC community I am a different person you know and I feel that I need to continue to advocate for those who are in situations like me or even worse because when I am immigrated I came in a privileged position because my husband came to earn his PhD and we were never illegal here we were never refugees but I was treated like one so for me this you know shed light on the on my artistic goals you know so it was important for me to go into the dark and come out stronger niche unlimited funds like oh my god I wish instead of unlimited fund there would be power so it would definitely change or my upcoming planning but for unlimited fund I would maybe building art school or just to serve it to education that everyone could access to that without any limitation regardless of race color region country so they could have access to that so to wrap up I have to refer back to your final question there which I'm really struck by because I asked that exact question to Edward James almost about 15 years ago and if you're not Edward James almost big in the Chicano movement and very important in Mexican-American culture also was on Battlestar Galactica that Edward James almost and he got very excited because we were like oh if you didn't have to think about money and you know in film what would you make and he said I would do work with indigenous peoples of the Americas and he had a really beautiful answer I would like to tie that around to the shows in this building do not overlook Teresa Baker from Plains Tribes she's in the migration show and so migration mobility deep histories of presence but also movement are in Teresa Baker's work and then our other show right now up in the building is Margaret Jacobs and an enrolled member of the Aquasas New Mohawk tribe and we welcome you to see that room it's directly across from where you are sitting right now and Margaret although she's not technically in the migration show pairs very very beautifully with some of the issues that we were actually talking about tonight I will end again thanking everybody for coming here tonight thank you to all of our amazing panelists and to our moderator to everybody who donated money to make this happen thank you so much and lastly if you do not mind we have evaluations on the floor under a lot of your seats or if there aren't enough we have some more in the hall if you would kindly fill those out we would be so grateful because that also helps us to get more funding to continue to do these and Sarah Jane would like me to add oh yes and we will we are actually going to keep the the building open a little extra particularly downstairs we welcome you to join us for the next half hour to just chat and relax and also go see some of that artwork including Teresa Baker and the other members of this panel I am not sure I don't think we have the ground level tonight open still is that correct is Paul show open it is okay so yes you can see the work of our exhibiting artist who is part of this panel discussion tonight so thank you all very much and we hope to see you downstairs