 the other side of the world really over near Bondi Beach in Australia and you might think well great to former TV presenter and model and DJ and now living a life of it over in Australia well maybe part of it is true but there's a whole other side to Michelle's recent story anyhow because she has struggled to become a mother again and that struggle left her mental health in a really bad place and she actually spent time in rehab and hopefully now Michelle can join us on the show Michelle. Well technology John I'm here. It's wonderful it's good to see you again how you doing? I'm very good thank you because you're very far away around the Northwest today aren't you? Yeah we're spreading our wings wide today and anyhow it's it's good to see you again we chatted on the show all the way back before you moved to Australia what prompted the move to Australia in the first place? Actually it was my partner he got a job over here so I was like oh great I mean I visited Australia I'd say years and years ago never thought I'd ever want to live with the other side of the world but you know what amazing opportunity came up for us so we just said right let's just go for it and see how we get on and thankfully I have settled on really well over here and actually only recently became Australian citizens so yeah so that's a very big privilege for us to be honest with you we're very lucky to live in a country that's it's very safe it's beautiful climate and yeah we've made really lovely friends here so it's it's been a very nice transition to be honest. And what time of the day or night is it there at the minute? John it's way past my bedtime tonight you've no idea what you're doing. We're early rises over here so we're up at like eight or we're up at like six o'clock in the morning but um it's 11 30 here at night now. Okay okay well thanks thanks a minute. Thanks I do see you John. I know. I know. And I mean you live near Bondi Beach so you know that sounds fantastic. It is absolutely gorgeous we are five minute walk to Bondi Beach yeah I feel very very blessed to love here as you know I'm a Glingad woman so I live near the coast myself and there's something about the energy of loving near the sea and um yeah it's oh it's just magical I still kind of pinch myself going I can't actually believe I love here. It feels a bit surreal sometimes because it's just so stunning. I've nearly lost my life a few times in Bondi Beach let me tell you I've nearly had to put that hand up for the um the lifeguard to come and get me. Is it when it's not a beach to play around with let me just tell you but it's it's beautiful I love it yeah. And busy busy. Oh so busy yeah it's crazy like no matter if you go down there at six o'clock in the morning it's like the middle of the day it's just madness but you just thrive off that kind of energy and that um lifestyle we're just very blessed yeah. Yeah well um sorry to bring the tone down a bit but it hasn't all it hasn't been all plain sailing because uh roll the clock back to 2016 and you were trying for a brother or sister for your your son Max and then over a period of six years you you endured four mary miscarriages and there was three failed IVF cycles. That's correct yeah. That all sounds horrific and eventually it it took its toll on your mental health when did you how did it how how did you eventually come to seek help um you were you were lying and did you um start taking some drink to help to help you get through it um well to be honest with you then so that was just part of the journey and then we made a decision then to um seek an egg donor because I realized that um my eggs were not of good quality anymore and that was a really tough decision as well because that meant that I no longer was part of the making of the baby but um I sort of took myself onto it right it's going to be growing inside my body um and it will hear my voice all the time it'll be a part of me it's fine um so and then that to me was a no-brainer so that's I think that's when I hit the rock bottom when I was like right okay so I've ruled out my problem I've seeked another eggs um thanks for the egg donors egg um I think that that that's what took the massive toll on me um and then obviously so we'd wanted to we'd to transfer it pretty quickly in a row and that was 20 just before covid had and then covid had so we had two years of being able to get back for that final embryo transfer and then when I went back that final time I was like right so when you're going through IVF or going through whatever fertility journey you're on like well there's hope there you're going to put yourself throughout everything and then um so when that final one didn't work for me um I just went into despair I I just I thought I was okay at the time but I obviously wasn't so I was kind of not relying on drink but I certainly was um abusing alcohol let's just say to kind of numb the pain and also I felt it was um maybe in a way I was um kind of punishing my body I felt that it it failed me it let me down um and so then you're just like oh sure what's the point anyway it doesn't matter um and then I guess like I was isolating myself from a lot of people pretending everything was fine um and then then it got to the point where my partner was like this is not okay like you you have to confront what you've been through it's a lot of grief a lot of trauma to be through without like pretending everything's fine and so I went to see a psychotherapist um here in London and I will be forever grateful to this man because I've been seeing counselors for years obviously with all everything that I've been through um but he was the one that actually said you know you actually have to deal with this grief and trauma or it's not going to end well basically um and explained it in such a lovely way he was like you've been trailing water for eight years and he was like every time you come back up to the surface you get pushed back down again and he said like that that's not possible to to survive that so yeah so he was the one that um brought this place to my attention and normally I'm like ah yeah grand sure I look into that and I was it was kind of November so it was coming up to Christmas and I was like ah sure I look into it after Christmas but I knew in my heart of hearts that I couldn't keep going the way I was and so I contacted them straight away and again very fortunate to live in a country that um my health insurance was able to cover it because it's expensive um and so yeah so then I was facing the next obstacle in my life um but very very fortunate that I had that opportunity and and how long so you went you went to him thinking that all you really need it was just a bit of a rest something maybe oh yeah weekend or I'm so tired I'm exhausted because I have a habit of um of like if I'm upset about something I'll get make myself really busy so I make loads of jobs for myself and I was just exhausted trying to cover up the pain and everything and I was like I just feel like I need to go on a yoga retreat or something for a weekend and he was like a yoga retreat so I love you need more than a yoga retreat so um so yeah unfortunately uh the yoga retreat was far from what I needed so a check um a check-in facility was recommended and that's what you you ended up doing how long did you stay there so I had to go there for three weeks two weeks and and of course this is my first time to get away from my wee boy for that length of time um uh and also the the kind of shame that comes with that it's like you know because obviously I wasn't going into that facility because I had a problem with alcohol um I was going in there because I was using it to deal with the bigger issues which is my grief and trauma um but you can't help but feel that shame it's like and even when I talk about it no because I know when the newspaper first spoke about this like they love to sensationalize things and make you know want to make it a bigger story but the bigger story was I was in pain I had a lot of stuff that I had to deal with that I was using that as next using that as a crutch to sort of numb the pain in the time being um and so I mean that was so daunting for me because like I think somebody else that I spoke to they said like anytime you think of like a rehab so they think of like being taken in from the door like you know with a major alcohol problem but it's not like that it's um you're going in there because you're trying to fix yourself and you're trying to make your life better and I met some incredible people in there that were that were doing just that as well so we all were on this journey together and um while it was extremely intimidating at the start because you don't know what to expect um they sort of become your like support network and you depend on each other and you have to share your stories in front of like a so you're sectioned off into little groups and you know everybody has to deal with their thing in the little group and um they become like your little family you know support network basically yeah did you find that you met a lot of other people who were for want of a better description putting on a brave face yeah I just um because that's what I tend to do I tend to um be this I'm a front woman so I'm always like huh and the more pain that I'm in the more of a performance I can put on um so yeah they're hiding behind these big personality and then underneath it all when you strap it all back there's so much pain underneath that um but I guess that's what we do to try and keep going and try and survive um for better for want of a better word but um it was interesting because it's it was there was so many different types of people obviously it's pretty confidential you can't talk about certain people but from all ages from like older men to young girls who are crippled with anxiety and you know underlying issues or whatever but it all stems from a pain that we can't deal with ourselves so we need to find an outlet to deal with it or go to a facility like this that they can help us take everything apart and sort of understand why we behave in a certain way or why we um are doing what we're doing and yeah it was extremely interesting and I took a lot from it um and understanding why I was beaten the way I was as well yeah um just isolating the IVF cycles uh those in themselves the the hope and the expectation and then everything that you you do to try to make it happen and the things that you put on hold and then just to have your your hopes and dreams dashed and to have that you know over and over again I mean for a few those three failed cycles so the those in themselves and and aside from the miscarriages really really hard to process and really hard to deal with very hard to accept um I never like it when I explain it like is it as a little girl or as a little boy don't know um you have this kind of blueprint or this idea of what you want your life to be and I never want it maxed to be an only child and I love children and they just gravitate towards me and I could never accept that I was only going to be able to do this once but that I'm very lucky is one of my in my remarks but yeah I just I just I and even to this day I still can't accept what's what's after happening but I'm learning to deal with it a bit better than I did but um yeah it's just and you know it's it's this emotional roller coaster that your hopes are so high and you'll put yourself through anything and and unfortunately a lot of the times that's the problem because you don't want to say no that's enough enough is enough obviously my family were worried about me and Mark's family were worried about me and my friends are worried about me but you you can't say no until you've got nothing else to give like it's literally where there's hope you're going to put yourself through anything and so that's that constant roller coaster of um hope versus despair versus despair and and then I suppose it's it's also about uh taking ownership of the the issues realizing that you you need help and then having to tell friends and family and you know that that can take it stall too yeah because it's what I was saying it's like the shame that comes with it like I you know I've I've always been very I'd spoken about when things aren't okay with me because I I feel like if at least if you talk about things then you can get the help that you need um because I remember having postnatal depression of drive max and that was really difficult because everything's pretty too like it's not talked about it's we know it's there but people don't talk about it because oh god you don't want anybody to think chooses you're not okay you have to be on medication because you're not okay um and then the miscarriages and then the IVF and that in itself is so invasive like you're sticking a needle in your body morning and night time and you're you're in the hands of of this medication um and I I just I bought it like there is a lot of shame that comes with it but I'm I'm I'm just I'm one of these people it's like you know what I'll deal with the shame as long as I'm able to get help rather than suffering in silence and not it not being a very good outcome and so that's why I I speak about these things because the amount of women that have reached out to me going even no idea like your article or your interview or whatever has done for my family or my network my family support system to kind of have a tiny glimpse of why I'm going through because you just get on with it and the other thing that I I I took um great comfort and was like I've had a few um elderly ladies reach out to me saying thank you because I did speak up with that saying like that's not this is not just happening now this happened years ago when it was like ah you be grand and it was just brushed like it was nothing it's not nothing the minute you see that or the minute you you know that you're pregnant you've already got carried away with this little human beings can be like how they're going to fit into your family and then when it doesn't happen it's not something you just go shock or act sure it wasn't meant to be it's part of your life and um and they say that there's not a day goes past that they don't think about that little one yeah and so I think the comfort that I've taken out of telling the story because it is like you're extremely vulnerable when you're telling stuff like this because you're opening up your hearts and your soul and you're just being extremely vulnerable and to know that people are getting some sort of comfort from it or that they get to um allow their partner or their mother or their father to have a tiny glimpse of what's going on for them is is really is the reason that I tell the story and the the stay there and the therapy a game changer but but not not a magic wand no every day is a day one step forward every day um and there's there's days where I still I can go back to being dying but it's okay I've learned to deny that I can um set with the feeling that I'm allowed to set with the feeling of I'm not okay with it I'm like to be honest with you John was very angry um and you've spoke there briefly about you know you're watching other people getting on with their lives and able to get pregnant have big family and we're like sorry what how's this work yeah you can't help that anger and that resentment that builds up inside of you as well so it's learning to sort of set with that that's okay you're allowed to feel like that tonight but you're not allowed just to stay in low to wallow and actually have to learn to sort of deal with it so I've I guess my little things that I've done in place are I try and do a bit of meditation I um I definitely have to go for my walks on the beach every day get on to the fresh air but also learn to um ask for help like there's like I know the wee people listening today who are on this journey right now and just to kind of maybe go on a a Facebook group or you know something that they have a night left that they can express how they're feeling that some people might understand what they're going through and in any in every walk of life not just for me not just for my my personal story but for you know if you if you're suffering with depression if you're not in a good place please don't don't deal with it on your own you're not equipped to deal with it on your own there's people like there thankfully that um are trained to know how to guide you through this and point you in the right direction yeah and uh you're lucky enough and that you found uh you find the right one you find the right place and the right one and you're actually passing some of that knowledge on now is that correct and that you're training to be a counselor so after my experience in the hospital I am in the facility I I don't know they just they've changed they changed so many people's lives while I was just there and I was just there for three weeks and I will never forget what they've done for me um and so it inspired me then to go on um and now I'm studying to be a counselor and if I could just give a tiny little bit of um a back of what they give to me I'll be I'll be very very lucky yeah so next time chatting to you you'll have a whole pile of letters after your name oh let's sort of get carried away now Joel but um it's not even about that it's just oh my god if I if I could just and especially I'd especially like to help kind of young people because I feel like it's a scary wee world that our children are growing up and at the moment and thankfully that wasn't around when we were kids um so it's very hard it's a hard little life to navigate at the moment so if I can just try and provide some little coping mechanisms for them or just provide them with an I might like to talk a safe place to talk and I feel like I'll do something to make a difference in their life well I think you know you have for many and because uh you know given your profile and then how how open you've been about about these issues and about the problems that you've had and how you you saw it help and and as you referenced there there's a lot of people who are going to be on a similar journey and and maybe listening now and and taking comfort and saw us from from what you've been saying Michelle good to good to talk to you it's it's you know can I can I also say one more thing John sorry and I know this is I don't know if there's younger girls last thing as well um so when I speak to younger girls sort of in their early 30s and they haven't met anybody I always say girls please consider freezing your eggs because the most mind-blowing thing for me that I learned along this journey is a woman is actually born with the mind to fix that she's going to have for life and it's actually terrifying um and I know it might be expensive but you know unfortunately we don't meet the man that we're going to or the partner we're going to be with very early on and then and and that's what's happened to me I didn't meet Mark I was 36 and I thought I had all the time in the world and it turned out I didn't um so it's just a wee bit of advice that I'd like to get this one okay freeze freeze those eggs freeze those eggs Chris yeah all right Michelle um I'm uh good to connect with you you can go off off to bed now see as you're gonna I go to bed now yeah I feel a little dressed up I need to go somewhere nice oh I'm going to bed don't worry the jammies this one nice to talk to you John you take care yeah likewise hello daddy I love you yeah I never where's the last do you get over to Glengad much do you get back home much sure I was what are you talking about I was home it's in September and I was home in December our house yeah and I just had my parents here for three weeks so it was amazing yeah great well listen good to see you and good to talk to you again Michelle like after yourself thanks all right you too take it enter the virgin media playhouse for unbelievable value from islands