 Good morning, everyone. This is the February 17th meeting of the elementary school building committee. And because we are conducting this by zoom remotely I have my first order of business is to declare of quorum but also make sure that everybody can hear and be heard and as I call out your names just all systems are go Paul. Present. Mike. Present. Tammy. She gave you a thumbs up. Present, sorry, I got kicked out of the room I was in. It's good. All right. Jonathan, we heard your voice. Jonathan, Simone. Here. Angelica. Yeah. And e-lisha. Yeah. And we're, as other people arrive, if I mean, Paul sometimes helps me if they happen to come in another way, I'll just announce that they're here because I didn't hear from anyone that they wouldn't be coming. So that it's always possible that they just didn't tell me. So I'm going to turn it over quickly to Margaret, but this is the focus today is on the report to MSBA and then just to make sure people are aware of upcoming meetings and Margaret has a few other things to report. I want to take time. If we do have time, Margaret, I'm just amending the only other thing is, I do have a bunch of meetings that have been scheduled. And so I want to show that quickly on the screen but then I will send it out to everyone because this is an open to present the school project to the community. So Margaret. Kathy, can you just enable screen sharing. Oh, right. That's the enable. You should be set up. Great. Thank you. Alrighty, so, as Kathy said, we're going to the main event today is to look at the documents that were posted for your review that constitute the schematic design submittal, and to determine if anyone has any questions. And then we are going to, I'm going to make a couple of comments about sort of overall contingencies as they are embedded in the total project budget. And we're going to wrap up a lingering question that's been out there that was brought up during an early stage of the design. The committee is going to discuss and review the report. And if someone makes a motion, you will take a vote to submit it. I haven't included all of this, but just as a reminder where we are is the date, the due date for the submission is March 2. And the moment where everything's done and we're on track to submit it potentially even early. If there is a vote is not taken today, we would need to schedule a meeting I would imagine next Friday, which is sharing the school vacation week, because by the following Friday, we're past the deadline. So that is the agenda and the nugget. So, Donna, Tim, Beniam. Not sure how you want to go and I see Rick is here as well. Not sure how you want to go about summarizing the, what's what is you're looking for comments on today if anything but I'll turn the floor over to you to do that. Okay, I see Alicia's hand is up. Sorry. That's okay. Thank you. I was just wondering and sorry if I missed this. Are we going to be addressing the items that we had in the parking lot or the list that we were making prior today. So what I had proposed at the last meeting was that the parking. Well, so one parking lot issue we're going to talk about today, which is a question. I already had raised early on about the contracting of the solar and geothermal and that's just to close the loop. The other items that were suggested as well as other items that I anticipate are going to come up that are potential changes to the scope would be addressed as part of the next phase. The reason for that is that it isn't there all of these pieces are interconnected. So if you start tinkering. There, I don't think there's any lack of commitment to making those changes is just because of the complexity of the submission. We don't want to try and make further changes now we want to take that on at the beginning of design development. Does that answer your question Alicia. There are just some things in the parking lot that I feel like extremely strong about and so I just worry about having them included in this portion even. Well, so just but just to be clear, the meeting minutes themselves are a record of the, the sort of track of a project so there is a record the things that you brought up at the last meeting, which I have as plumbing for the future compensation and infield and backstop for the softball fields. Those are in the project record as a commitment of something we are planning to do. It's just not possible to embed them in go back to the estimators update the estimate to update the total project budgets update all the documents that we're already sending to the MSBA in time for this deadline, even if we had started at the time of the last meeting. But I, there's no lack of commitment on the part of the project team to including them at the beginning of the next phase. But, but Margaret I would say there is a commitment to not going higher on the budget so it's not all it's, it's not that there's not a lack of commitment and so we do have, as I understand it the list of potentials that we did not get take are sitting are sitting there, they didn't go away. And I think Alicia re re raised the question about chain link fences at the last meeting market so we didn't, we didn't put it on because it was the, we got a strong group of schools that said we really need them. So it doesn't mean it's gone forever I mean we can come back to that that was the idea of the subcommittee for starting to talk about outdoor spaces so this is still, I shouldn't call it an early stage because it feels like we've been working on it forever, but, but it's really, it's an early state for those kinds of very specific details. And I, Alicia I see your hand is still up. Yeah, thank you Kathy because that's that's actually exactly what I was talking about the chain like fun food. And I feel very strongly about that and so I would prefer to have a conversation then to just be saying, we talked to one person and they said they need it and that's that because I feel very differently about that. And that would be something to take out not something to add. And so I just want to know when we will be discussing those things. So again, as I mentioned at the last meeting. They're, they're in the parking lot they're part of the record that they're going to be taken up at the beginning of the design development phase. And there are, as Kathy mentioned, a bunch of other things that we sort of put as items in the value engineering, not to be taken at this time to potentially be revisited. So if we could just add. I think it's been said but I guess I just want to reiterate that this isn't the end this really, this was schematic design so conceptual, a little more than conceptual. It's a good four months once the vote passes to really get into more detail about the overall scope we haven't talked about murals there's so many things that we still want to review and discuss. This was to have a overall scope of the project but that doesn't mean additional decisions won't occur and this is. Standard for this before I call on Paul I just want to make sure I see that Ben has joined us Margaret so Ben I just want to make sure you can hear us and we can hear you. Welcome. I can hear you. Thank you. Paul. So this is a good question for all of us I think, can you, you're saying that there's still more work to do. Can you, if we vote on this today, which we are we hoping to do what is set in stone and what is still in lots of things. There are a lot of things in the design that we're going to still continue when you get into design development is a whole another month's work of worth of work right. So but are there certain things that we're saying, and these are the things that you can't change at this point in time, the size of the building stuff like that. Right, exactly so the size of the building. You know, the location of the building, all of those really significantly impact cost the program. You know that's set in stone we've submitted that to desi department of elementary and secondary education. So, so the adjacencies and locations and sizes of the spaces can't change. We can balance a lot of the other elements within the scope. We hope that we're not changing the mechanical systems, because that would be a full redesign, right. And things like that the basis of design, maybe I say it differently, the basis of design really shouldn't change but the amenities throughout the project can. If you want to go from tile to wood Wayne scope, sure. Right, or you just want to paint it but you know the basis of design which has gotten us to this cost of the project won't change but all of the amenities, we haven't even made a lot of decisions that will need to occur. We just wanted to own scope. Does that help Paul. Yeah, so the sort of basics framework of the building and all the things that you described. That's what we're voting on and all the things all the sort of design these amenity design decisions are still up for discussion. Right, amenity makes them seem too small but they're important decisions, but yeah yeah so like for example we heard, you know we're going to push the two basketball courts together right like that was my baby. Yeah, so there's a lot of design decisions to be made and we say amenities because we could. Yeah. That makes sense. Thank you. I think Rupert also joined your Rupert. I want to make sure Rupert, you can hear and hear us. Oh, I don't think I'm even muted. I'll be myself now thank you. And then there's a person who I don't know Phillip Riso how he's with us. He's, he's another team member with. Thank you. So I just so Alicia is bringing up chain link friends and I can't offhand. I know we had a discussion and we decided not to take it. I was on the list of is a dollar amount. And what I'm hearing is that at a future time we can come back to that item. There wasn't both Mike and Tammy spoke to it as a safety issue. And, and that meant that we didn't automatically take it so if it's not on the list. We'll be carrying it on the minutes it won't be forgotten as, as a question that was raised. Mike, if you want to speak to that, I just feel like, yeah. I want to be clear I'm not fixed on a chain link fence. It's more about what is a barrier that would keep students safe. If the architects and think of other solutions for that. I mean, you know, so, you know, I want to speak for Tammy but I think both of us are concerned about safety and if there's other solutions that would provide the same amount of safety and separation between cars and children. We're all in. So, I mean, I think to Alicia's point I definitely understand that concern and I say from the schools and I'm very committed to working with the building committee. I think the non negotiable for us is not having a path where there can be confusion that leads to an accident that involves a child right I've lived through that not in this role but in a form role in the district. I'm going to do everything I can to never have that happen again. And so, they're very well maybe other solutions that can address that problem in a way that Alicia and other constituents are more comfortable with and I'm very open to that conversation and move over and you know defer to the group as to when that conversation happens but I just wanted to clarify and I'll think you were misquoting me Kathy but it's not about the chain link fence and not jamie fence it's about what's the separation what's the preventative measure that keeps keeps folks provides that level of safety when we talk about our kids that's our highest priority. So, so I think we, we should leave that word fences there in all of our memory banks. So when we get to the stage where we're actually doing those design details we don't yet know what the alternatives might be so you know swapping them out for questions would be one thing that we'd be talking about. And Alicia will just will capture that in the minutes but we'll also capture it more strongly just in whatever we're documenting. I'm looking for can we move on to the document that's before us and I don't know whether people saw but the pieces were coming in as of last week and then parts of it and I, I read and only had a couple of questions on them so Donna and Tim and Rick, you should decide how you want to walk us through. Thanks, Kathy, I think, if I can, I think I would just like to share the table of contents maybe if everyone can see that, and just just maybe this is the easiest way to walk through the, I don't know how many thousands of pages is included in this. But just first and foremost, we thank you, Mike Tammy and Mary Kylie and her whole team and putting together the desi the Department of elementary and secondary education submission. That's really an important component that we need their approval MSBA needs their approval before the project scope and budget agreement is is comes to an agreement MSBA. The list identifies all of the special education spaces, ensuring that they are the same size, and that they're integrated with the, with the core academic program so that was, that's an important component. But as we go down the list through the schematic design binder with the introduction is just really a short short version of the overall project, and the, they requested that we provide some presentation graphics for their board meeting. And of course the MSBA PSR review and comments so they just like us and them to be reminded of what they've asked us to do. The final design program and and you can scratch the word final because it's not final as we've just talked about, but it's general right so we talk about the overall architectural characteristics the space summary, and how that compares to what we've done in the past. The educational program narrative which is really just a summary of the overall ed program. The intent for instructional technology, the goal for functional relationships and adjacencies, the security and visual access requirements site development requirements and then the desired features of the school. And having included the traffic analysis which we've talked about with the committee early on the environmental existing building assessment anything that we have done since PSR MSBA just wants to know same thing with the geo and geo environmental. There's a section for code, what is required making sure that our building meets the code and the required filing requirements as we move forward, the utility and soil analysis again just recapping if we've missed anything. The massing study is all of those beautiful images that we've been sharing with you the narrative and the building systems is the basis of design that hasn't changed either. There is an added section to talk about life cycle cost analysis as it relates to water electricity and well here a lack of gas, and then that the hydrant flow test demonstrated that we do not require a pump room in the building. The sustainable building design section has the goals and implementation a letter from us certifying that this is our understanding the lead scorecard which I think puts us at 64 points, which is wonderful. And then the energy report that I believe we've shared in the past from Thornton Thomas said a we again along with the other code analysis we did an accessibility analysis of the building. We have included mass historic commission, we are required to submit a project notification form to the mass historic because this is a public building, and it's a requirement of the state so we have sent that off. The data sheets are all the hard work that we've done leading up to this with all the detail within the rooms and the spaces, the construction methodology has that was kind of laid out last night but that's just stating that the district has decided to go with construct general contractor versus a CM at risk. This is your reimbursement rate with incentives, this is the document that MSBA provides the district that says here are your base. And this is your base reimbursement rate with what we understand today are your incentives what it doesn't include is the sustainability 2% because they don't have the document that says where we're going to be at this level right we're submitting it with this so this 2% will be added to the project scope and budget Margaret can get into that the total project budget is everything that we've talked about as it relates to the overall cost Margaret will go into that the F&E budget and technology budget and those are really quite detailed and these two are schematic in nature but it establishes the basis of the cost. We've included the designer and OPMs cost estimates, the updated project work plan, which really is just to have everything in one place for us to understand who we are how we're working. We have updated our work plan overall work plan and schedule, and then we were what's not included as the local actions and approval hopefully we will have that today. And then the project manual which really is the basis of design, it's an it's an outline of it. And currently there are no proprietary items for this project, which means we do not require a vote and that these will be or equals and we can get into that down the road but we understand there are no proprietary items for this project, and then the drawings. And that is in a nutshell everything that we've been working towards it we're putting a very big bow on this package and sending it to MSBA. So I open up to any questions. Rupert. Hi on the proprietary question. I was integrating this building into the rest of our building automation system necessitate that proprietary permission. Is that something that we can do with down the road. Yes. Yep, we can do it. We want to have a more detailed understanding of what components of the BMS that would be required yes and just just for everyone's benefit because this is a MSBA project or a state fund a project we need a school committee, but an approval of any proprietary items. Excuse me and this shouldn't be taken lightly. I think that most of the bid protest that we've been through recently have been people fighting proprietary items. So it's, it's really to be considered very carefully to make sure that you get the desired outcome, plus the bid process gets to go forward. Um, but Rupert. Yeah, there's a, I may, I may pull this up in a minute there are a whole bunch of things, kind of like the issues that we were discussing earlier about scope that occur in the next phase. So it's, it's a, it's a process piece and I. Yeah, I agree with what what Rick said. Um, but there are also, you know, real operating issues with school districts having small staff and and having integrated systems, you know, we all recognize it's important so it's just a kind of balancing line you have to walk so more. Yeah, no I appreciate that. And aside for the building automation system the other area that would be looking for integration for would be our building security swipe card system. Otherwise people would have to have different cards for different buildings and that would be a mess. Those are typical and sometimes locks as well and systems and functions that occur throughout the district are a lot easier to demonstrate the need for them to be proprietary. I just wanted to mention them now so that they were in the back of people's minds for later when it comes up again. Thank you. Thank you, Rupert. You're not, we're not done with you yet. Yeah, you know, I just want to say, I, this, so I would say this committee's, you know, essentially been working on this for over a year at this point. And there's another kind of year. Plus, before we get to construction so it's not going to be as intense as this. And, and that's a good thing because I think it leaves opportunity for, you know, getting into the details of things that people have questions about and the kinds of questions that Alicia and Rupert are asking are good examples. Okay, two things when I see that Phoebe has joined us so I just want to make sure that Phoebe can hear and be heard and we, the record. Hi, Phoebe, thank you for joining. I didn't actually, Donna answered one of the questions that I had when I was reading through this, because I saw that reimbursement rate and I thought wouldn't it have been nice if we actually got 68%, which was that whatever the number was on that, but that the 2% and so she explained today that that 2% is over in our calculation. So, I have more of a general comment which is a praise. I find these sections very well written, and we're starting to get some community questions. And there, there are paragraphs that I think we can copy and paste into some of the q amp a, which are very helpful. One request I have is that early on when we did the conditions report the facility. There were some terrific pictures of the inside guts of the building that you don't just see when you're walking around the outside. And if you could somehow collect them, whatever you've got so I don't have to go out with a camera, because we've been asked about, can't we just fix the building you know what's the state of the building, but just doing something to say this is what we're doing on a daily basis. So it's, so what I remember early on was the pictures of rusted pieces of ceilings of interior spaces that were cluttered with no windows. So what, what the current. So, so that's something that has come up in the community that I think will be useful to have a visual that we can put, we can figure out what we want to do with it. Yeah, that's great. And we can, we can organize them kind of by heart right here's some interiors here's your boilers here's your. So, and then we, we and Amherst can figure out what we want to do with them, you know, on, you know, we're not going to make a huge thing because we want to focus on the new building not not what we're living with. So that was just one comment and then the other is the net zero aspects of this building are a big selling point in town so some of the questions I've got. And then I'm going to feel that I just want everyone to know that denisco is willing to help so you know how much did what we put into the building that makes it net zero how much more does that add to the cost and if we just gone with in this case it would have been a gas utility. It would have been fossil fuel. So some of that information turns out it's been embedded in these reports to him 10 pointed out, it was in the PSR on what that added. So I'm going to take a stab at writing something up and then denisco said they would review it, including you know the after the ever source incentives. I just wanted to say that the team. I just praise worthy on what I'm seeing but also that you're going to be continuing to help us as we move from now until May. That this isn't the meeting work may be done in terms of the specifics but it's, it's trying to make sure any material we put out is accurate. And it's just an information flow. So I thank you because I really in reading some of this is that oh that's that answers somebody's question that came up recently. So thank you very much. Well Kathy thank you for reading all of this probably aren't too many people that have read every single page of well I'm telling you when I got to the traffic report I said okay I remember that one. Anyone else actually can maybe Donna can you take this down just so we can see folks faces all the. I'm not seeing any other questions. You know so, so let me then just add one other thing that has come up and then what I see documented is how if you dealt with the water table on the site to protect the building to protect the school, and you go into great length and to talk about it. And we had had one question from public commenters, and I see you're still carrying the cost as a potential add on. In addition to the water vapor barrier and the gravel and bringing it up. Do we need insulation to go all the way under the slab so is that is that an issue that the civil engineers and everyone have signed off on this so I'm just putting it on it. I see it's being carried as one of the alternatives and the therefore it's not in the building right now so I just wanted to mention that because a couple people in the community during the forum had said what have we done done to address any concern with water on on the Fort Riverside around the building. It's kind of a question in a comment that we're just carrying that as we don't think we need it, but you've got it sitting there as a piece. Right, and, and this actually reminded me Kathy is that we recognize that there's a new code coming out. And what we're hearing now is, we're hopeful that they put a pause on making it official July, because people have not been able to achieve what the code is telling us we need to achieve, but that said, we will need to revisit probably some elements once we have a clear direction on what we're going to need to do with whatever code we arrive at. So, yeah so this lab under the building might be one issue, and then there may be some other issues that we might have to modify. Admin, or Rick, are you going to add that the installation is not part of bringing the building out of the water table it's about thermal insulation and maybe tweaking and improving the performance just a little bit to get us to that 25 a UI but all of the systems that we have designed to bring the building up are intact and part of the base. The one moisture comment that can be discussed with fully insulated the slab is raising the surface temperature of the slab, so that it doesn't become a source of condensation. We don't think that will happen, but that's the other reason other, making the floor a little warmer for the occupants is is what it does so there's a lot of cost benefits to be looked at, including that or not. Thank you. You know, and that's just so everyone knows on the sheet that's an additional cost it's not a cost savings so. So I didn't. I'm just looking to see if anyone else had any pieces. That jumped out at them. It looks like no. So Margaret you had a few comments you wanted to make more generally. Yeah, you know I think one thing. I hope everyone had a chance to look at the total project budget. But there is a question that I thought would be helpful to summarize here, which is the contingencies so you know as a reminder, there's actually essentially four different kinds of contingencies that are embedded in this estimate. Two of them are embedded within the construction costs, and they are to sort of protect the project and the community who is paying for it from the potential for increased costs in the project. So two of them are outside of the construction budget, and therefore things that happen during construction as is common, you know, unforeseen conditions, unique condition, a change in the market, a change in the labor force. So, and then there's also a line item for soft cost contingencies which is, you know, we talked about in the previous meetings is. So, for instance, the project went longer, but the design and OPM contracts are based currently on the assumption that they have the project has a certain end date if so for some reason the project runs longer. If that's an additional soft cost that's what that contingency is for, or you could potentially use it for a decision to spend an additional amount on furniture, furniture or technology. Okay, so let me just share this quickly. I'm going to put it in the meeting notes. I'm bringing it up because I think it's important for people to be aware that these numbers are substantial and you know it goes to the community question that we've heard a number of times about like what what is to keep first of all what's to keep this from what the project cost goes up well that's what these these values are for to some extent. And so, as I said there's four lines so what I did here is I'm noting the line, the total project budget if you want to go looking for these. Not easy to see because everything's the same color. So, these items are within the construction costs. So again, there's what's called a design and pricing contingency. Because the project isn't an early stage of design, and the estimators are making educated guesses about some items. And also, as Donna mentioned Donna and Tim and Rick mentioned, there are we're still kind of wobbly around the building code. Then there's the line item for escalation which you will remember saying we bumped up at the last estimate to 9%. So, and it's estimated this escalation is estimated to the midpoint of construction, which is when it is presumed that the project is fully brought out. Below the line of you sort of look at the total project budget below the line. There is a construction contingency number, which is at 5% of construction, and then there's a soft cost contingency, which is at 1% of construction. So, again, I'll put those in the meeting minutes for reference. It's actually all embedded in the total project budget. It's just kind of hard to see. Any questions about that? Okay, I see no hands. So then the other thing we wanted to talk about, and I'm actually going to ask Rick to talk about this way way back to remember her fabulous long list of questions. At the beginning of, you know, what is this and what is that? And, you know, honestly, we knocked out most of the questions in the first couple months of the design phase. But there was one question, which I believe was asked by Rudy Perkins and perhaps by Chris Riddle as well. Maybe it's Chris Riddle actually asked a question about how the solar and geothermal were going to be contracted. How will the geothermal wells be contracted separately and how does it relate to the estimating? So that's actually sort of a lot to unpack, but in a nutshell, what we're going to do, and I'll have Rick expand on this, there will be an early package, I believe, for the geothermal wells. And actually, Rick, you know, this proposal is essentially coming from you. So why don't you talk about it? So actually not so much the geothermal wells, but for the geotechnical work. You know, to oversimplify a construction schedule, you want to move your dirt when it's reasonably dry, pour your concrete before it freezes and you can direct your steel all winter and you want to open school in September when the first day of school. Juggling all those items. And the schedule, one of the things that we're proposing is to have an early site package, which thereby we don't wait to have the entire design of the school done and bid as a general contract to do some of the things that we need to do, which is strip loam, put up site fences around the construction area. Do the overburden for the to pre compact the soil underlying soils that needs to sit three months. And basically what we're trying to do is would be trying to get the site shovel ready for the general contractor to come on board and to begin to be able to then take that dirt rough grade, get ready to start digging foundations in a period of time when it's not winter conditions and just basically back into opening when we want to open so that's that's one package that's pretty clear, and people might think of that in terms of see them at risk but we've also done this under design bid build public school projects, whereas there's a clear delineation between the scope of work, and you take advantage of less markups, you're going directly to a site contractor to do the work. What you know needs to be done quick, and you get it set it up for the next guy. Other things that can come along. Like bidding the wells, which we typically think of as part of the HVAC system and there's a coordination thing there. We talk about as we do the design if there's good. Pullouts. Solar is another one where they can be bid as a standalone project, immediately following the general contractor we're doing that on a fire headquarters building right now we're preparing to bid the solar. The building that's going to be occupied in about a month. So those are other pullouts that we could do if it benefits the project other things that might end up needing to be pullouts is if crazy long lead items. Identify themselves during construction documents, like some of the crazy things that you might be seeing with generators and switch here, it might be necessary to pre buy things, because you just can't get them. It's not for file sub contracts to go out and get them and start the process then. So the first, the first bite of the apple seems to be to help the schedule would be an early site package which would get that self package of the site. So the stabilized construction fence up construction access established, start piling the dirt up and keying it up for the general construction process that would start after that. That's kind of a mid range view of that. So one of there's two reasons I wanted to bring this up so what one is, you know, to, to answer Chris's kind of lingering question about this. The other is, if you look at the schedule, which just, you know, this gigantic schedule because it covers the entire rest of the project. And I did read the early package noted there so I wanted to make sure that we talked about this before but we hadn't sort of specifically talked about the, the bits and pieces of what's in that so. Rick, did you want to say anything else about the wells. Well, the, the wells have been discussed as something that might be able to be farmed out like the solar. And whenever you look at a system like that. Once you once as an awarding authority you bid something separately. You suddenly begin to take the burden on of having to coordinate it with the other contracts that are being left. It's a two edge sword, you know, if, if everybody, if every electrical subcontractor could get a generator in six weeks. Owners would never consider buying it ahead of time and waiting for the electrical sub to open up the box and say hey this is missing. So instead of his problem it's yours. So we'll continue to look at each one of these items as they come up to see what best suits the project. So Rupert I show your hand go up did you take it back down on this. Well I did I just wanted to clarify who's going to coordinate and oversee in the absence of a GC, because it does seem like it could be an issue. So, it's the design team in the opium and partnership. And, you know, I will say that we have brought on to because when we started this project we didn't know for sure that that was going to be ground source heat pumps, but we have brought on someone on our team who is very experienced contractors who have worked on most of the geothermal public geothermal systems in the state. So she's actually working for us now and will help us and you may remember back when we were talking about design build versus construction management at risk I said, you know this is where the complexity of this project is is in these the first heat pump and solar and making the whole thing work together so Dennis go has a really good folks on the solar side, and we have an outside consultant who's part of our team now on the geothermal side. So, it is a little different. I think the engine at the time you know most of the net zero well all of the net zero schools that have been built to date have used a construction manager at risk process delivery process. I think Dennis go has convinced me that because of their experience and now because of us bringing on some additional skills to the project that the team has the ability to manage it. I also add that we have found a clerk for our side so you'll remember that we are part of what the opium provides as a full time clerk throughout the entire construction process. We have found a clerk who has a geotechnical engineer. He's very experienced. I haven't worked with him before but he was recommended to me by Mary Bolso, and he's very excited about this project. And I think he's sort of bringing an additional level of, you know what's going on in the field relative to the geotechnical side of the project. So, just Margaret, for the more general audience, it might be helpful to explain what a what a clerk is. Oh, yes, thanks. So, I actually be interested, I don't know where the term came from but there, there's an industry term called clerk of the works, although the MSBA typically calls it project representative. So here I'm using either of those terms we're talking about the same role, but that is the person as I was saying who is basically the eyes of the team on the project so he or she does not give direction to the contractor, but they are there to observe the work. And they do daily log of what the work is that's going on, and they will often if they're good, and this gentleman is terrific. They will facilitate issues that are coming up in the field, and help them get solved proactively. So, depending on the kind of work. It's really helpful to have someone with directly applicable applicable experience I you know I feel very lucky to have met this gentleman because he's perfect for this project. Any other general comments specific comments that I'm going to ask are people comfortable at this stage of taking a vote to submit the report. Donna noted there are a few pieces missing and I, I, you know I didn't look at every piece Donna so I don't know whether Margaret, what I'm remembering last time is she attached something to every minutes, all the minutes we've taken, you know, and, and all the form, you know so we know how often we've met so. And we do just changing Tammy's title on your submission of who's on the team. But is, is anyone is that in anyone not want to move forward with the boat. Then we're open for a motion. Jonathan. I won't get the wording right in the first try here but I would make a motion to, you know, submit this with any, you know, minor corrections that the Donna and her team need to do ahead of that. So what you're what you're doing, you are authorizing the team to submit on behalf of the town. Yes, that that's the motion I'm making. Thank you. I'll second that motion. Okay, so Paul seconds. Any further discussion. Okay, then I'm calling for a vote and I'll do it in the order of people on the screen because I don't have my list in front of me. Mike. Yes. Rupert. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Jonathan. Yes. Paul. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Alicia. We didn't hear you Alicia. I don't know whether. Okay, you're unmuted right now. Alicia. I'm not hearing her. Kathy's a yes. So Alicia. Paul, can we do it if she can hit the raise hand button or she just disappeared. I don't know what we do. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I also know, I noticed that the chat is available. So maybe she can put it in there. She, I think she just dropped out. Yeah, she dropped out. Maybe she'll log back in. Okay. I'll keep an eye out. Alicia. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay. My voice. My vote is yes. So the vote is unanimous with I think one. Two people missing. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And there are two missing. Allison and Sean are not with us. If I get my count right. Okay. I think we do. Do we have an invoice for today? No, we do not. Okay. So I. I didn't put it on the agenda. So Paul, you can tell me whether this is a no, no. But I do have, I just typed it up this morning, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That it's mainly the various district councils have set them up. So I can show it on the screen right now. The other thing I can do just so. Any public members can see it, but I will also directly share it with the whole committee, because I've just been saying yes to anybody who wants us to come. And, and then the idea is who wants to come. You know, I'm making sure my calendar is open for this. Okay. No, it's a logistical thing. You're not looking for a decision. Okay. So I'm sharing my screen. And let me make sure. Okay. So does that. Can everyone see the screen? Okay. Yep. All right. So right now. I've got a little. I'm screen sharing. So this is as of this morning. And so there's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight seven, eight, nine, eight, nine, eight, nine, eight. And so we're going to have a set up. And a few, you'll see, have a question mark because. We're not sure of the exact time or like the mill district in their gallery room. And these, that's an in-person meeting. They told us they would host it. We, this is a day that works for people are going to help. So I will change these. So I'm going to send this back out to people because. I don't want to get in the wrong direction. I don't want to get in the wrong direction with anyone on the school committee. Mike. Or Ben. Because I think it's helpful to have. More than one persons. And I have a presentation. That I've pulled together. Thanks to the Dennis go and answer. That takes the pieces we did at a forum and that, that ends with the, how much is. What's the impact on taxpayers? But it. It's a four minute video in embedded in it. So right now we're kind of set to. It can be adjusted depending on the group. The council on aging. Where I put who's the sponsor. These are people who actually asked us to present. And that's in the bank center and. Paul and Lynn accepted that and Paul, I think that's a final date. We were playing with a couple of pieces. So they're going to put up a flyer out. So I put UMass and other at the very bottom, because there's been some outreach just to mass, seeing whether the net zero school would be of interest to feature in some way so that to extent there are students at the UMass campus. Who vote in the town of Amherst. And one group is reaching out to Amherst college the same way, but there's a really high interest in climate. And the students, I think in general. I think it's really important to be interested in the idea that we're doing this for an elementary school. Where the next generation of people will be growing up. In a school that has these features and they're learning about the outside and the inside because of the site we picked. So here's my grace. So that's all that's been set up right now. Mike. That's okay. No, I'm completely finished with this. I don't have anything more. I don't have anything more to say. I will send this, I will send this out to everyone. Yeah. So two points for upcoming meetings that I just, you know, not to discuss, but just to pass along. In public one is. Now that we're getting closer to having a ballot measure officially. On the docket. I think it'd be good for committee members to get briefed on what they can and can't do. In terms of advocacy for the project. We're doing that for our staff at the teaching level, you know, we're doing it for the public. We're doing it for the public. We're doing it for the public schools. I should say pre K to six. So we don't, I'm not suggesting doing that now. It's on the agenda, but I do think, you know, once a date gets set and it's officially on, right. All that town council stuff. And I just, I think it'd be good for everyone to know where, what they kind of can do. Cause there are clear rules about it. I think the second thing just to keep an eye on is that the governor's order of remote meetings is currently slated to end next month. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. But I don't want to be in a situation where. People aren't informed and we don't have a plan. If it gets extended or not extended. So those are just two topics for upcoming meetings to put on the agenda. Cause, you know, on the agenda for this meeting, looking at the town site. It has some dates up, up ahead. And I think those are just two critical pieces for this committee to have some discussion about. Not now again. I want to be respectful of that. Okay. Paul. Yeah, just to add the build on that. So I agree with Mike about educating this committee and we're doing the same thing for our staff, what they're allowed to do and what they're not allowed to do. As public officials. The second point is. So if these are not posted, the open meeting law applies to committee meetings. So we would just have to be alert to what we are doing as a committee in terms of how we're going to move, you know, move forward after March 31st. And the third thing I think is most important, which is I really think that we, and maybe Angela can help you with this, Kathy. We should have more than one person at every one of these things that we can. And I think we should send it out and let people sign up if they can. It just has, it's a lot of burden on Kathy, which she has led us tremendously. This is the work product of this entire group. And I think that it's really helpful to the public to see that there are more than one person representing the group. So I would just suggest that we all try to grab one of those meetings too. And if you'd like, Kathy, I can ask Angela to send just to send it out to sort of let people sign up if they want. I'm not sure how else you would want to handle that. But I just, I would just encourage us all to sign up for some, some of them, even if we don't have to say anything just to be there and say, I was. Sat through this whole process. No, that would be, that would be great. Paul. I see Angelica's hand is up. So. Thanks, Kathy. I just sent you an email, but I'd be happy to help out with the UMass. End of things. And I just wanted to ask more about what you had in mind. Were you looking like something that would involve students or a broader community or. You know, because the room reservations are always the tough thing to do. Just on the practical end of things to, to be able to locate where to host it. Sure. So there's been a couple of efforts to reach out to students. And I think that's what we've been trying to do. And I think that's what we've been trying to do. And I think that's what we've been trying to do. And so far it didn't feel quite right. You know, like a class. That is teaching about environmental and buildings. I mean, there's always the architecture school. So I, I didn't know whether there was a way of. One group was going to reach to a broader action group. So something that would get featured where students might want to come and just hear about it was one thing I done. I just thought there's enough interest with net zero climate action to try to figure out a way. So we've approached a couple of teachers who teach. They've said, sure, you can come in, you know, but it's a, that would reach, you know, 20 or 15 kids. So I haven't, and I can talk to you later. So it, I haven't figured out what that might look like. Yeah. Paul is back. Yeah. And just a different time back. The, and to differentiate, there is a private advocacy group that's out there advocating for this ballot measure. Once the council decides on the date. That's something different than what we're, we're doing education piece of it. So it's, it's important to differentiate what our role as a committee is. And what, what you, what people might work on, on that other advocacy thing. So I just think that's where the clarification, we can get some of that stuff from the state to share it with folks. So I have a question, Paul and Mike. We discussed this very briefly, either last time or the time before, do you think we need to schedule a meeting where we're just told again, what we can and can't do, or there is that package that was sent out. It was provided to the council. It's also in our either our last meeting package or the one before Margaret supplied it to us. Is it enough that we do it in writing? So I'm just asking, do we need to do a, can I do this? Can I do that kind of meeting around this issue? I can jump in with my two senses. I don't know if we need a separate meeting for it. I don't know when our next scheduled meeting is, but I do think there's going to be a dynamic piece where people can have a conversation, you know, and maybe that just individually, they can have it all through Margaret and you, you know, you know, I think that we need to do that. And then feel like I'm not advocating for adding media left and right, but I also think getting closer to a vote. I just want to make sure everyone knows the boundaries really clearly. And the document is written in a way that state documents are. It's a good document. It's a bureaucratic document. That if you're not reading bureaucratic documents as much as sometimes I am, right? Like it's not necessarily as easily understood. So, you know, I think that's a good thing. When we do meet, I would just like to add it to the agenda. I also wonder if there's an event at Amherst college. I might be worth doing while their students don't vote. I think there is, there's someone reaching out for the same thing. It may have more of an impact on the adults, but they're, you know, they have ambitious climate action goals that they're continuing to work on. There may be an interest there as well. So. I know it's a smaller group, but I think the more bases we can touch and provide accurate information on the agenda, the better off we are. So. We're not scheduled on the agenda. People can download it. We were going to skip the month of March. I think Margaret, I'm what we talked about meeting in the middle of April. So the next time to do this, other than we're kind of doing it now indirectly, talking about the dos and don'ts. My take home is that I can do anything. I can do anything. I can do anything. And I was running for my campaign as long as I'm not never using the town's computer or the town resources. But when I'm there as a town official, I should be presenting just the information rather than please vote. So that's my very short summary. So Mike, I, you know, the next meeting. I'm sorry to interrupt my, I think a brief meeting in March. Okay. Talk about. If the governor's order doesn't. Continue what model we're going to use. Okay. Me that's worthwhile. I know the town council will have those conversations. School committee has already had those big decisions actually. Of how they're approaching that, but this is a different group. And so I know it's just like a logistical meeting and no one's excited to go to like, how do we meet in the future? And what we do and not to do, it's not necessarily. So we'll, we'll try to schedule that. And we could do it with, we wouldn't need the Dinesco team. Margaret, you could just come to that meeting if we set it up. Correct. Yeah. And yes, absolutely. And I want to suggest in the meantime, so because I, what I don't want is for people to be holding back at this particular moment. So because this is a moment to sort of, I mean, by the way, congratulations, everybody. This is like a gigantic milestone. Really unbelievable team effort. What I'd like to suggest is that I resend and actually I shared it, reshared it with Mike earlier this week, this pretty good memo from the office of campaign finance, which is the state organization that thinks about, you know, valid initiatives. I mean, it's a little bit wordy, but there's a pretty good document that I shared way back at the beginning. I'd like to suggest that I reshare it. And in the meantime, if anybody has any specific questions, because I think some of you, like, I don't think Paul's going to have any questions for me. I kind of doubt Kathy and Alicia are going to have any questions because they're, you know, elected officers and it had some formal training. But if others have questions, just email me CC Kathy. So she knows what the question is. And then we can get together in March. We didn't pick a date, but maybe we should pick a tentative date today. And that way we can sort of keep the conversation rolling. And again, I don't want anyone to hesitate to do something that is completely okay, because you're unsure. Just, just let me know. Okay. Okay. So, you know, maybe we don't have to pick it right now. We'll send out a couple of dates in the middle of March. So. Does that work well for everyone? And as Paul said, there's an advocacy group that is gearing up. So one of the things that started to happen with that is they, they're asking, when are you going to write the rest of the Q and A's to post them up on the project site? You know, so some of the questions that have come from them and that they can then have accurate information that they're using when they're doing their work on the school. So they're, they're, they're starting to get organized in multiple ways. And, and my understanding is that any of us who wanted to participate that in this other role can. So, if you want to know who they are, you can. I got one person, actually one person who's helping coordinated is on the finance committee of the town and he announced it. So that was one way I knew who was, who was one of the co-leaders of it. So I have his email. So I don't see any other issues. And as Margaret said, this is a huge, it has been a huge lift. And I think it will continue to be. And I don't, I really want people to sign up. So the idea of Paul, you had of Angeles doing it on a, if one or if more than one other person wants to come. And Mike, you know, if you and Tammy, you know, I'm thinking, Tammy, I've used what you said a couple of times when you, when we were talking about the three floors. That you liked the way the design worked with the cross grade, having an educator say that rather than me makes a lot of sense to me. You know, so just trying to think of, you know, what the design of this building does for the kids and for the teachers in terms of flexibility. So to the extent I've taken notes, I've tried to take what anybody said that might be useful later. So seeing no other, I am going to see whether we have anyone from the public. We are open for public comments. And I see one, two, three. So I'm going to bring you in in the order that I see you. Okay, Rudy, I think you are here. Yeah, let me see if I. I don't see a video. You're probably just getting a black screen, right? I'm not seeing a video. I'm just, I'm just going to talk then. Just a couple of comments and questions on some of the documents in the packet on the schematic design energy analysis report. Page three of that report says the new school will be approximately 110,000 square feet. And I'm hoping that's just a typo that didn't get carried over into the calculations because that's going to throw the EUI calculation off enough to trip it over the 25 EUI. So I hope somebody just goes back and double checks that. You guys probably already caught that down. But also in that report on page five, it talks about the electricity costs of the new school being 156,367 is an estimate. About a year ago when that estimate of the electricity bill came in, which was one of the compelling things about all this net zero where it was significantly lower. I think it was around 10 grand or something in miscellaneous electric charges. That 156 starts to get up towards what we're paying now as I understand it for electricity and energy costs. And I just want to make sure that number is right as we go into talking to townspeople about savings and stuff. To just get a firm number on what our projected electric uses, electric charges from the utility would be that will be paying since obviously we're getting a lot of it from credits from our solar. The just skipping back to the budget for a second. I didn't see a note about third party reviewer. Energy reviewer commissioning and recommissioning, all of which are required under our net zero bylaw. And they may be folded into certain services lines, but I want just want to make sure we both factor that into the process of administering this project. But also that we've budgeted for it and it's possible that one of those items like recommissioning maybe falls outside the scope of the construction budget. But we obviously somebody's got to pay. So in the lead scorecard, the draft lead scorecard, we've checked off yes on fundamental refrigerant management. That's an issue I think we need to come back to pretty soon. It's a growing topic and a lot of, you know, low energy buildings with a lot of us using heat pumps. So I hope we spend some time, not too distant future about what we can do to make sure that we don't get any refrigerant leakage from this building. The materials and resources in the lead scorecard, it looked like if I'm reading it right, we're not anticipating points for sourcing of raw materials. But in the outline specs, you talk about using recycled steel and metals, also drawing steel and concrete from within 500 miles. And I just wondered if there's points for that. And if there aren't, why we're specifying those things as noble as they might be, I'm sure they may add a cost. So if we could just, maybe that's covered in some other point category, but if we can bump up another point or two and lead, I think it'd be, it'd be good. There's a few more things in the energy report. The domestic hot water preheating is different in the outline specs than in the energy report by about 15 degrees. And I assume that might change the electric resistance, heating expenditures on that. One of the things I noticed in that report is that it's showing that our new building will drop the EUI from the ASHRIE baseline significantly in most items, like heating, cooling, lighting and so forth. The two items that are noticeably unchanged from the baseline are equipment and the elevator. So I really think we have to kind of know I've said this before, but there's an area where we can probably shave energy use off and get us more comfortably below that 25 EUI without having to reshuffle building elements and so forth. So I hope we use some of this time we have coming up to the next slide. I'm going to seriously review equipment and along those lines, you're showing constant speed. The energy report shows constant speed pump and fans for a lot of categories that I thought in the basis of design, you were marking as V F D pumps and fans. And I, again, that might change the energy usage. I continue to worry about under slab insulation. I'm glad that's on the topic. But I'm also worried about the building system automatically shutting off the cooling flow that the chilled beam flow. If warm air gets in through a window. And that if I'm reading the energy report, right, the cooling flow is at 55 degrees. So if we're worried about condensation and we're shutting off the energy, the cooling water flow into that room, there's an open window because we're worried about condensation. So if we're worried about condensation on a 55 degree pipe, we should be worrying about condensation on a slab that I think it's quite conceivable could get to 55 degrees and we should be seriously reviewing how we're going to mitigate that. So. And then there's a couple of small things that I'll send in a written note, but I really appreciate the work you're doing. I think there's more to be done on the, the particularly energy elements. And I hope we don't just not meet for months and months when we could be tackling at least some of the subcommittees. Some of these important energy questions and continue to make this a higher performing building, which we don't want to miss. Obviously we can't miss that 25. I know you, you all know that, but we should be working to be further below and have more of a margin of safety. I think that's a good point for that. So thanks very much. Thank you, Rudy. And since we're recording, we will have all of those, but those, I think one picked up a discrepancy that I thought that Dennis got already fit. They, that 110,000 was a typo. And there was a second version, but as things went in, so it is still the 105 that the square foot. Well, can we send in the corrected one in the packet? I think we should be updated. I don't know when you downloaded yours. We probably caught it after you. I downloaded. Well, anyway, you got it out of your control. Thank you. So thank you. So I'm going to bring the next person in. Let me just remove. Okay. Bruce, I have brought you in. And I think I'm unmuted. You can hear me. Yes, we can. Well, Firstly, I was going to congratulate you all because as Margaret said, I kind of figure from having been a part of this from pretty much the beginning and before that this was a real milestone. So congratulations. It's wonderful. I then had a number of similar things as Rudy to say, though nothing quite as insensitive. I don't know if I can accept it in regard to the subset of insulation, but mainly what I want to do is to, because I, the reason I put my hand up was to say, I've been holding off for a couple of months now on various commentaries because I know that the focus was to get this vote passed and the documents submitted. But the zero energy design committee has been meeting and having for quite a while. And I've been accumulating stuff much as Rudy has. For example, I also am concerned about the subs lab insulation. I respect Rick's, what he has to say in him, I've come to regard each and every one of those people with a high level of regard. But nonetheless, I've had direct correspondence which I forwarded to do Kathy and I don't know whether it's gone to Dennis go, but with John Straub, who's one of the most esteemed building scientists in the country. And he's not exactly saying we have a problem, but he's not saying we don't. And I would certainly want to know that we had some kind of thermal modeling either through whoopie or through term, because one of the things you really, really cannot do is retrofit subslave insulation. So this is one thing that we don't get to come back and think about once we've done it. I've got some suggestions or I want to see if we can't do better on the lighting power density. I think it would seem that the higher performing buildings around now can do better than that, than point five. I've got a question or two on the, the way the geothermal system, the heat pump system is organized. And so I really would just really suggest like to be able to get back into discussions at the, at the energy performance level. But to wrap right back to the beginning, congratulations on the milestone chief today. Thank you all very much. And I'll be maybe even walking door to door in my neighborhood to make sure the people understand what's going on here. Thank you Bruce. So we have one more person. Chris, you're here. You can talk. Thank you very much. Again, I want to commend this committee on a fabulous piece of work. And I just want to say that listen, I don't have anything that I can add to what Rudy and Bruce said. We got a couple of those two guys are phenomenally knowledgeable and, and work very hard at this. So just listen to what Rudy and Bruce have to say. And that's all I have to add. Thank you Chris. So, I mean, when we put up the planned next meetings, we didn't have a conversation. I haven't had that conversation yet about the subcommittee on net zero. So we will have that we're trying to make sure that Dinesco gets this report in on time. So I will have a conversation with them after. I think Donna. Rick. Tim, you heard all the comments today. So Jonathan. That is the last of the public comments, by the way. So Jonathan. And then this is not really in response to the public comments. That's not quite what we do, but I'm sure we will meet again as the net zero committee. But I think what I just like to gently remind folks that, that Donna is working on a contract that. Right now is all about getting to, to where we are today. And that, you know, a lot of what we're talking. Talking about at the, at the net zero level is good stuff to be talking about in the next phase when we're. When she's funded for the next phase. In design development. So nobody wants to talk about it now. So, so Jonathan, I think what you're saying is. As soon after the positive vote on May 2nd. So that we. So we still have access to a team that hasn't. Said we're out of time and money and expertise, but I think all of these questions or any other questions that people sent in, they're being listened to and everything is being forwarded. So it's not that anything will get lost. And. And I want to see if there's any other. Any other questions or any other questions or any other questions or any other questions or any other questions or any other questions or any other pieces. So right now we're not scheduled. To meet again, Margaret. Correct. Until the middle of April. And that will be a report back. I believe you told us that you're meeting this afternoon with MSBA. Is that correct? I am Sean and I are meeting with MSBA. I submitted to them at their request. The total project budget form. So I'm going to do a check on that. So I should be able to come back after the meeting and confirm if they recommended any changes to it before we make this submission. But. I've had them review this a couple of times before and have. Fielded. In the submission, the questions, you know, actually just to respond to Rudy's question. So I'm going to do a check on that. I'm going to do a check on that. I'm going to do a check on that. I'm going to do a check on that. I'm going to do a check on that. I'm going to be rolled up for the peer review, the energy peer review for a structural peer review for additional commissioning. So those are rolled up in one of the lines. And actually if you blow it up and look at the red text, you can sort of see where they're, where they're rolled up to. You know, some of those clarifications are the same things. You know, the MSBA wanted to see. So. I hope to be able to send an email. But I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that there are no changes to the total project budget. And will you be doing the. Estimated MSBA share town share at the, in that same conversation. So not just the top line, but the division. Well, I mean, it's implicit in the fact that, that document. Tells you. What their share is. So it's just doing that. You know, they don't, they don't have a line in the total project budget that says your share is, they only have a line for, this is the maximum of what we'll pay. But once that number is confirmed. Yes. That we know the difference. Yeah. Hey, thank you. I'm not seeing anyone else's hands up. So I want to give a personal thanks to everyone. For a showing up today. And for staying with us and also to say, you know, Assuming May 2nd is a yes. Our work isn't done because this, this, this notion that a lot of the details are still going to be worked out. And some of that will also provide. Opportunities to broaden the group that's talking about it when it comes to, you know, a lot of the details are still going to be worked out. And I think that's a good question. And Tammy and everyone who works in the school, the choice of furniture. So none of all of those are just. Guest. Limit line items that should provide enough money. So our work won't be done for a while, but this, I think this has been the heavy lift stage. So thank you. Thank you, everyone. And I will get Angela, Angela to work and welcome anyone who wants to volunteer for any of the work. So thank you. Thank you. At least two people. At each one. So. And I just want to thank you, Kathy, for your leadership and your diligence and the amount of work you put into this is really remarkable. So just amazing work and thank you for it. It gives us, it gives us as me as a committee member of great confidence that you were on top of everything. So thank you for that. Thank you. I'm. I dream about this school. So that's it. Thank you all very much. And I think we are adjourned. At 9 56. Have a good weekend, everyone.