 Oh, someone else. Okay, great. Well, hello everyone, I'm Paul Stacey. Welcome to this special live session on meta metadata, traditional knowledge and biocultural notices labels for OpenGlam OER. Got a great team of people together with us for today's session. And I'll turn it over to them to introduce themselves. While they're giving their presentation, I do encourage you to add any questions you might have in chat. I'll certainly monitor those and try to keep tabs on whatever comes in through chat so that people are, so that those questions get fed to the presenters. We are recording these sessions and we will be posting them to the page associated with this session. I will also try to provide, hopefully there'll be time towards the end of the session for there to be an open discussion where we can just have some Q&A with the presenters. And so let me turn the floor over now to you guys to introduce yourselves. I'm not sure who wants to go first. Great, thanks so much, Paul. We really appreciate you being here to welcome us. That means so much. Greetings, everyone. So honored to be sharing virtual space and real time with you. And thanks and welcome to this session. This is a live session within a broader asynchronous interactive activity. So the activity will be explaining a little bit about over the course of the next hour. I'll go ahead and share screen and then I'll pass the mic to my colleagues and collaborators. So I'm so honored to be working with in terms of introducing myself. I'm Garrett Grady Lovelace using she pronouns and I'm in Maryland DC currently in the Piscataway lands and teach at American University but also am an open education resource advocate and activist working with MHC Foundation. Hi, everyone. My name is Jane Anderson. I'm joining you from the lands of the Lenape Nations in Lenape Hoking in New York, USA. I have a background in intellectual property law and I'm the co-founder and co-director of the traditional knowledge labels and notices. Lovely to have you join us. Kia ora. My name is Maui Hudson. I'm a member of the Whakatōhia Nation, one of the Iwi or tribes here in Aotearoa, New Zealand. I work at the Te Kote Research Institute, the University of Waikato and also a member of local context too. Kia ora. Hi, everyone. My name is Sharon Mizoda. I'm a metadata consultant working with MHC Foundation. And my name is Virginia Poundstone. I am calling in from Brooklyn, New York, home of Lenape and Canarsie. And I am the director of product and content working for the MHC Foundation on a project called curationist.org. Greetings. So we're very compelled by the open education global conferences orientation toward UNESCO and the United Nations and their OER recommendations. We're inspired by this international conversation about the importance of liberating education but also compelled by how the OER recommendations could go further in conceptualizing what open means and what equity means within that context. So of the five OER recommendations, we're kind of situating ourselves within building capacity of stakeholders to create access for use and adapt and reach to critical anti-racist and anti-colonial open educational resources. That leads to number three, which is encouraging effective, inclusive and equitable access to quality OER. And again, we're kind of expanding OER to think of quality from the standpoint of equity and decoloniality. And then five, this question of international cooperation but moving beyond the nation state is the dominant scale of reference in international cooperation. UNESCO has a long history of deferring to the nation state and re-entrenching modernist colonial nation states but also has a very robust history of indigenous rights. And we're particularly inspired by the UN Declaration on the rights of indigenous people within the broader context of the United Nations. So we're here to kind of think through OER from the perspective of this mass digitization that we're going through right now. So all of a sudden we have a huge boom in Open Glam which stands for galleries, libraries, archives and museums that all of these institutions with all of their varied and sundry histories are digitizing on mass. And so there's a lot of potential there for educators and for activists and for organizers, for cultural memory. There's also a lot of risks because the context of those collections are deeply rooted within coloniality oftentimes outright plunder. And so thinking through if the mass digitization is going to reproduce a mindset of appropriation or if it's going to actually open up the epistemological space for new sets of knowledges and more expensive understandings of these collections. So we're kind of thinking about this crossroads from the perspective of pedagogy as well as equity and justice. Let me advance. So particularly we're thinking about metadata as a site of pedagogical engagement. And I'll pass the mic to my colleague Sharon who's the metadata expert on our team. Thanks Garrett. So I'll just say very briefly, metadata is data about data. So it's the facts, the information that is attached to these digitized images that represent museum and archival and library objects. So within this world of metadata, data normalization has been the go-to solution that increases the ease of sharing and the accessibility of data online. It's also how you find things when you want to search a museum's website or search their collection. But the problem with data normalization which is conforming data to a particular set of standards is that it often reproduces the colonial and capitalist biases that Garrett referred to in her introduction. And it also leaves things out. So this is an example here of two objects. The one at the top is a terracotta arribios which arribios is the Greek word for oil flask. And what has happened is because these objects have become so familiar and so well recognized under the term arribios that that term then got applied to anything that kind of even vaguely resembled a traditional arribios from Greece. So you can see here that's the same term being applied to an urpu which is a vessel from the Incan and Quechua, or sorry, Andean Quechua traditions that was used not for oil, but to store quicha which is a fermented beverage that is consumed in the Andes. And so why do we use the term arribios to refer to this object which has a completely, it may look a little bit similar but has a completely different purpose and cultural context. So this is an example where data normalization is actually effecting an erasure of the specificity and the sovereignty of a cultural tradition because it's obscuring the very unique cultural and, sorry, physical purpose of this object within an indigenous cultural tradition. So what we wanna ask at MHC Foundation and with the project curationist is what would a data ecosystem look like that balance normalization, the ease of use, the ease of finding things with these more diverse local and traditional knowledges? And is that simply a matter of making sure that certain people or certain cultural resources are included or is there something structurally that needs to change? So if we could go to the next slide. One of the places that we're looking at that is sort of a combination of normalization and these local knowledges is Wikidata. So as you may know, Wikidata is the central repository for the structured data, names, titles, topics that are associated with all Wikimedia projects. This makes it a great source for data normalization because each name or title represented in Wikidata is stable, meaning there's one concept, there's one record, there's one name. So it's basically a giant vocabulary for naming and describing anything you might find on the internet, but it can be updated and edited by anyone. So this means that at the same time that it's one concept, one record, it's also open to change, right? So anybody can come in and change the name of that record and change the name of that concept to whatever they want it to be. So this means that Wikidata is potentially more responsive to changes and updates in language and meaning than more traditional descriptive vocabularies, which are usually managed by large and often very slow moving institutions like the Library of Congress or the Getty. However, the flexibility doesn't mean it is comprehensive. So there's still things that are left out of Wikidata. And it also doesn't mean that it's accurate or respectful. So the downside of being open to everything means that you are also open to, including derogatory outdated or stereotypical language or language that's just inappropriate for a variety of reasons. But that said, Wikidata can still be a powerful tool that combines both standardization and customization of data. Because if you don't see a term that you need, you can always add it. So this increases the possibility that others will begin to use this term and that it may become a new standard or a new populist standard. So in this sense, Wikidata might be one of the best options for improving the language and names that we use to access cultural content on the internet. And so for the museum content aggregator curationist.org, I wrote guidelines for selecting Wikidata terms that reflect the site's anti-colonial, anti-racist, feminist, queer and anti-Abelist values. And so this project, although it's still in its early stages, represents an example of how one might use Wikidata selectively and appropriately in a culturally sensitive context. So with that, I'll hand it back to you, Garrett. Garrett, you're still muted. I'll pass it to Virginia to explain a little bit about the context of the metadata layering and then I'll say a few words about the pedagogy before we dive deep into traditional knowledge and local context notices. So one thing that we're really working hard to figure out on the product side of the project, on the product team, the development team, is how we don't, in improving metadata, create an additional erasure of the history of coloniality within these collections. And that's how we landed on this idea to create a layered metadata system so that we have the source records and they stay intact, but what sits on top of them are edits to it. And so we call those metadata layers. So we're not erasing coloniality, we're just working collectively, hopefully to improve the metadata that exists around work. And then I'll also just say that, so this aspect of layering has so much potential to show students how Eurocentrism works, like the ARIA bio-exhibit, that's such an example of a cultural reference that's European, Greek, even the concept of Europe, not just as an appendage of Asia, but as a whole continent under itself, these are constructions that have colonial roots. So everything from history to geography, to arts and culture, to law and electoral property, to critical literacy, there's so many disciplines that lend themselves to this metadata layering and this kind of decolonial orientation to metadata. And so we're excited to think about this with open education advocates and educators who are working in the open domain. So particularly we're thinking about the layering, crowdsourcing, folksonomy, hashtags, threads, what would young people see and how would they integrate and contextualize these images into their own knowledges and frames of reference. Also corrections, verifications, things are wrong, things are mischaracterized or mislabeled. There's also alt text, so design justice and accessibility, translations and transcriptions as a way to contribute to building the knowledge and the layered knowledge around these digital cultural heritage objects. But specifically we want the whole platform to be oriented toward indigenous data sovereignty as the kind of crux of the engagement. And so we're kind of thinking this through with the leaders of the Global Indigenous Data Alliance we're so honored to be working with Maui and Jane and their broader teams as a way to recontextualize the digital cultural heritage objects that are now being circulated and have so much pedagogical potential. Kia ora. So I think this is a really fascinating conversation and that's part of this longer thread of activity. And then Garrett and Sharon have talked about and I know Jane talks about it as well in terms of the histories of erasure and exclusion that have come about through the generation of many of these collections. And the ways in which the records have been kept and often for a number of practical purposes or what we're thought to be practical purposes but have then become part of the cultural norm of those organizations. And that this is the way in which these things sit. And so without having a chance to revisit that I think that's the exciting thing about this project is being able to revisit those ideas. And so this kind of focus around indigenous data sovereignty which has emerged in the last sort of five or six years is really bringing together sorts of ideas that set around or that have been played out in other contexts around indigenous rights and treaty rights and research ethics but they've been brought to the fore because of this process of digitization which is in some ways has an element which is about sharing and making things more open but at the same way creates greater exclusion and potential for misappropriation through the same activity. And that's often the feeling of those indigenous communities that feel that they're not appropriately represented or they're not being given voice through some of these kind of structures and mechanisms. And that's where this has come about. So indigenous data sovereignty is primarily focused on enhancing indigenous control of indigenous data. And I think this is this whole idea of being able to bring relocalized aspects of culture as Sharon described in her great example even when we're in the context of doing something that's global or creating kind of global networks and structures. And so this focus on how people are able to access data about their own places and so that they can support their own governance activities or be involved in the governance of data as it's being made available to others and contribute into what sorts of processes and standards are in places really important. And so I think just trying to highlight here on this slide some of the different some of the different frameworks and ideas that have been informing how indigenous data sovereignty might be operationalized or implemented in different ways. And so you have the OCAP principles which came out of First Nations Indigenous Governance Center around ownership control, access and possession. And then Gita, the Global Indigenous Data Alliance has been one of the primary advocates for the care principles. So the care principles for indigenous data governance which we're really looking to sit alongside and compliment the fair principles. And as the fair principles being used to encourage more open data sharing but focused primarily on the data itself and so very data centric in the way that they think about the things that need to happen to increase sharing. And when you contrast that with the care principles which are focused more on the people that are involved and the purpose for which the data is being used or being shared. And so those things are being promoted across the research data alliance and a number of other kind of jurisdictions now as complimentary sets of principles to inform data sharing. And then just shifting across to the other side and some of the work which is initiated by Jane and which I've become involved with more recently around local context around thinking about how do you how do you recognize or tag those indigenous items or indigenous data sets within infrastructures because you're not in a position to govern that resource or be involved in decision making around that resource if you can't locate it. So as Maui was talking about the traditional knowledge labels I'll just kind of jump in and just give one example of them in use with the Scarlet Spand of the Stoldorf First Nation. This is an attribution label. So within the project of local context we have labels that are for indigenous communities to customize and to add their information back into the record. And then we have notices which have been developed for institutions and for researchers to disclose existing indigenous rights and interests. So different kinds of purposes because of different kinds of roles that communities, institutions and researchers have with each other. This is a traditional knowledge label, the attribution label. This is a label that almost every community that we've worked with adds to their collections partly because of the missing names or the erased names or the mistaken names that's currently sit in the record. And this label helps update and correct what might be otherwise missing or incorrect information. But what's important about the TK labels is they also are customizable by each community. Every community has the right to define what the definition of these labels are. And here you'll see Scarlett's version of the attribution label translated into Hulkamalem and also explaining why they're using the label. This is on their website, the Scarlett's virtual museum which I've also put in the chat for you. And just in a similar way, providing an example of how we've also not just dealing with traditional knowledge and indigenous knowledge item and cultural materials and using traditional knowledge labels in that context, but thinking about the rights and interests that indigenous communities have to the genetic resources that sit within their territories and across their territories. And so we also developed a sort of a variation of the labels that relates to biocultural resources. And you'll see here a few examples of the sorts of labels that are being applied by communities in that context. So provenance, just recognizing the place where this material has come from. And in the same way that the GLAM sector is involved with push towards open data and sharing and digitization, the same thing is happening in those other scientific research disciplines. And while as that happens, and obviously that concentrates a big part of what people expect to see in place. And so we can try and recognize that through the use of the labels. But it is also because that the cultural material for which people don't necessarily have an intellectual property right over. In the same way as genetic materials where people won't have an intellectual property right over becomes the basis for other people to create value from and turn into sort of commercial activities and outcomes. And sort of expectations around appropriate recognition or beneficiary and it might take place in those contexts can happen if you don't have the right sorts of metadata alongside that material. And that that isn't kind of really transparent and known to next users and other users of that material who they might be engaging with. And so I think this is the interesting thing about the application of these. And just got a picture there of muscles because there's a, I hope they're the ones that are from our community. We've got an open ocean farm and just had a big deal to start exporting them to the US. So we're all pretty excited about the potential for that for our community. So as I mentioned earlier, we initially began this project around the labels as a community focused initiative and that was developed over 10 years with Indigenous partnership developing the labels and the different kinds of what the labels focus on, largely protocols, provenance and permissions. As we developed this project further, we also understood that institutions, archives, libraries, museums, as well as researchers also need particular kinds of tools. And this is where we developed the notices and understand that notices really function as a disclosure of Indigenous interests. So not only in historical collections, going back and actually properly recognizing where there are Indigenous interests, but also within contexts of research that's happening today and collections that will be developed into the future and making sure that Indigenous interests are disclosed in the first instance. So we're not going back and dealing with the problems like we are currently dealing with the problems now. So the four notices that we have are open to collaborate. This is a notice that institutions use to indicate their commitment to start working on processes of updating and addressing impoverished metadata, the attribution incomplete notice, which works to identify missing or incomplete records within institutional collections, often it's staff within institutions that know their collections the best and they know which collections are the most problematic, so that this labor of finding Indigenous collections does not always fall on Indigenous people. Then we have the traditional knowledge notice, again indicating that there's traditional knowledge interests and then also the biocultural notice indicating that there are biocultural interests, Indigenous interests in certain kinds of biocultural material. So in many ways what's interesting about this project is how it stretches across from the cultural heritage sector into the sciences as well. This is just one example of the open to collaborate notice being utilized at Simon Fraser University on their Northwest Coast image archive. This is their most heavily trafficked image archive in the university and they're very aware that they don't have proper attribution, they don't have proper permissions, cultural permissions for using some of this material, for showing some of this material and this use of the open to collaborate notice is signifying a commitment to actually address that and start working with and collaboratively with Northwest Coast First Nations to do that work. This is another example of the notices at the University of Tasmania being utilized within the open access repository and then also two of the notices being utilized at an item level in a catalogue at the Abbey Museum in Maine. And this is also an example of the biocultural notice in youth. So seeing how the cultural institution ones have been applied, the traditional knowledge notice can be applied to things and here's our first example of biocultural notice being used and so this is sitting alongside in a database that shows the gene sequence for the bilberry, which is a blueberry from the Scandinavian regions, obviously have connections with the Sami people and this was generated by interestingly enough, a New Zealand Institute who we've been working with and talking about the recognition of indigenous interests and so they were able to have this notice applied within this database and starts to bring some visibility to this place where multiple researchers from around the world will be coming to access that information. And previously, and there's a place where they would have been accessing that data before but now they're getting a signal that actually there could be some indigenous interests associated with this and there might be other steps or activities that they should be engaging in. Even just having the cultural level at the cultural institution at the collection level already sends a signal to anyone who's looking at this be the librarian or archive or student or scholar about indigenous data sovereignty efforts and initiatives and leads to more questions and more kind of an educational journey every time someone runs across that label or that notice and so with that important kind of avenue or entryway into this broader realm of knowledge we're thinking about is there a way to have examples of metadata that already exists online this is an object that we found on the Met and this is an extremely sacred object the minute you see it you realize that is it even who's to say who's even able to see this or who has the permission to view this and see it in all of its detail. So it identifies it's identified as Western Apache which is the cultural classification. The people who are called Apache in Southwest US actually identify themselves as Nde which means the people in their language and Apache is actually a Zuni word that means enemies it's actually a derogatory term it's been, you know, is Spanishized by the Spaniards who are colonizing the area. So even just the fact that the name itself is wrong and derogatory as well as the geography being United States and not an indigenous geography there's a lot of unpacking and unlearning that could happen with this metadata but then we get to the classification of this as a costume and then we get into outright racist and disrespectful appropriation and inaccuracies. So what would be possible TK notices? TK notices are kind of the flag or the disclosure and so thinking about a class or a curriculum that's culminating with a lot of knowledge and curriculum culminating in the proposal of a TK notice would it be a sacred secret or attribution incomplete or open to collaborate? So this being a curricular as well as an institutional opportunity. And we've gone through this a little bit and so we'll kind of move on but I'd love to also just hear Maui and Jane reflect a little bit about the outreach or they've been working with universities more and more and the degree to which librarians there's a whole realm of kind of radical librarians who are ready for this, who have been thirsting for this but if faculty members or if educators are thinking about this from the standpoint of, you know, the canon or curricular transformations and we were looking at that Apache or Nde ceremonial robe and thinking about if the Met did decide to put it open to collaborate notice on it perhaps that means open to collaborate with the museums often that are low resource within the Arizona Apache Nde communities and museums that are doing their part indigenous led museums but are struggling with low resources and perhaps an open to collaborate could involve funding of resources to help those indigenous led galleries, libraries, archives and museums do the work of correcting and recontextualizing objects. And so this is just a, a couple of the papers which people might be interested in having a look at which are reflecting on the development of the key principles for indigenous data governance. This was put together by a special interest group within the research data reliance as part of an international data week and I think it was about 2018. And since then we've been working and alongside other, other interest groups within the research data reliance who are responsible for promoting the fear principles and the adoption of the fear principles through the fear data maturity model and thinking about what does that look like in terms of care and how can we create criteria that would support institutions to be able to act with care when they're making indigenous data available. And so as I think as that develops we're also looking to work with people around what are the practical tools and mechanisms they can use in the context of this work. And I think the traditional knowledge labels and the use of the notices is one tool that can support that. There's gonna be a variety of other things that have potential and often it's by working with the people that are working with the material most closely that we can find solutions to these challenges. So we end with space and time for questions which is great but also we have included a questionnaire. It's a little wordy so hopefully everyone's kind of nerdy in the open education resource community and ready to dive in but it shouldn't take too long about 10 minutes or so. And it's about you as an advocate or practitioner or professional or educator thinking about how you would engage metadata how you already engaged digital cultural heritage or job check metadata or even the biocultural or the physical science metadata and how you're thinking about the potential for layering metadata in those contexts. So the link is available. If you go, this is a screenshot of the OEGC our session page and so there's a link to the questionnaire there as well as some resources that I will be continuing to add on to for the rest of the week but some really important articles, key articles by Maui and Jane and their collaborators about Indigenous data sovereignty that OER educators could use in their curriculum development or in their outreach as well as a very important article and decolonizing attribution as such which is very important within the open knowledge and open education and open data movements very contentious and complicated issue from the standpoint of intellectual property as well as broader ethics. And then the curationist platform itself version one our version two will be launching in the spring and I don't know if Virginia wants to say a few more words about that but we're hoping to have we have the museum API searched already in the beginning of a capacity think about an engagement user interface and then Sharon's link she's doing a lot of work on metadata and our own project on metadata or case studies for educators to use. So thank you. We've ended a little early so I'll stop sharing screen and open it up. Yeah, that's been really great. Thank you so much. This is really fascinating and I can see from, well I had a lot of comments but I also know that some of my colleagues are really quite engaged in work that is about developing anti-racist curricula if you will. So how to kind of revise teaching and learning materials to be deliberately anti-racist. And I think that term can be contextualized to not just mean sort of black lives in the US context but more generally indigenous peoples as well. And I wonder to what extent this work that you're doing might also kind of dovetail and fit with that effort to try to help faculty rethink the teaching and learning materials they're using to be more sensitive to the kinds of things that you were describing. Maybe I'll kick it off with that. Who's up? Who's up? It was. It was. All right. That's a big question. That's a big question. Look, I think there's kind of a couple of things that I think as you're talking. And one is that in that sort of process of creating anti-racist resources, I think there's an element of it that's about the framing. And I think we saw some good examples of what sort of worldview is providing a lens onto the item or onto the material. But alongside that, I think there's a component of it which is also participatory. And that you have to be able to include those people in those discussions. And it can't just be an exercise in reframing to what it is. It has to be about how they become a part of it. And that's what I really like about what's been done with local context and the use of the notices because it starts to bring the communities into the discussion because they're the only ones that can apply the labels. And so by having them become a part of it, I think it starts to change the thinking and the orientation. And I guess that's this layering aspect of I guess the anti-racism or sort of decolonial activity where there is a relationship element to it. There is a thought element to it. But then you wanna start to try and deepen it and embed it in some of those structural kind of components as well. And right down into the dirty weeds of middle data. Thank you so much, Maui. I would add to that too. And just to say, I think what has been really interesting or what we've seen really interesting within kind of university context is around as you're kind of saying Paul around curriculum and the ways in which particular at that level of engagement when you kind of push it a little bit further you're not only kind of correcting the mistakes you're actually engaging in collaboration around what that content actually is because sometimes that content has completely been misunderstood. But in doing that, communities are able to start adding their labels back into curriculum around how certain kinds of material should be used, how it should be cared for, when stories should be told. So for instance, we have a traditional knowledge seasonal label, which we know that communities want to have on certain kinds of material because some stories should only be told at a certain time of the year. Some songs should only be sung at a particular time of the year. And that label starts to mark that relationship to place in a different kind of way, right? That knowledge isn't just in here. Knowledge is embodied and is embodied in where we stand. It's kind of why we do land acknowledgments, right? Where are we standing from? Where are we speaking from? Who do we need to kind of make visible who has historically been invisible or made invisible through our particular kind of settler colonial logics? And so using the labels within curriculum start to do a different kind of conversation about knowledge, who's knowledge, who's sharing knowledge, who's participating in knowledge production. And I see that that is also just incredibly productive and generative for making sure that Indigenous voices and perspectives and protocols are part of the conversation moving forward. I want to do a plus two to both of those things. And I'm going to add one little piece of this where especially if we're talking about deliberately anti-racist curriculum, the thing is that there aren't just passive resources that can be handed over. They don't exist yet because all of the resources have been controlled thus far in non-anti-racist ways, I guess racist ways or just it's been controlled in ways that are not participatory, are not relational, are not all these things that the notices are doing and what curationists hopes to one day be able to facilitate. And really anti-racist curriculum from my position is participatory. It doesn't exist. You have to make it as educators. You have to be part of the production of it. And it's one of the things that I hope curationists can do for four educators is that it can be a site where they bring their students to collaboratively work on actively being anti-racist as opposed to passively consuming material about anti-racism. Or it can be both, but it's not one or the other. Is I add on to that? That's a really good comment. I mean, I would say that everyone in the open education world feels like that is one of the benefits of open education is that it's open, it's participatory and increasingly it's using open pedagogical methods that involve the learners themselves in co-creating and enhancing the curricular materials. I'm still waiting for questions from the others, but I have a follow on question to all of what you've said, which is these issues of indigenization and reconciliation and decolonialization are gaining higher and higher kind of importance in different parts of the world. And I know I'm in Vancouver, Canada and certainly here in Canada, this is a very big issue and I've spent some wonderful time in New Zealand where I think they're way ahead of us in terms of this topic. But I'd be curious to hear from you all which parts of the world are you gaining traction with? Like who's coming on board? Who's kind of excited about what you're doing? Who wants to be part of it? This is the last question for me and then I'm going to ask other people the last questions. Oh, you do want to go? Yeah, you go, you go. You start. I mean, it's a reckoning, right? It's a reckoning with what has been done and the violences that are embedded within our institutions and how they perpetuate erasure and what the consequences of that are. And I guess, you know, within the settler colonial context like Australia and New Zealand and Canada and the US, there is an enormous reckoning that still has to happen. But, you know, by and large, we, but there also the challenges being there have been very few tools to date that can actually get at some of these problems that can get into the metadata. They can actually start to bring Indigenous protocols into these spaces. And so without those tools, there has been kind of limits to how far you can go. And I think, you know, because we offer particular tools now and they're non-legal, right? So they they're trying to walk around the problem that Indigenous communities do not control or own those their collections within institutions, which I have to say is a major problem. And something that, you know, for instance, Creative Commons cannot get at because you have to be a legal rights holder to actually even assert a license, have a license. We find that because there actually is a tool at the moment to kind of start doing some of this work, a lot of like a lot of people want it. A lot of people need it and they recognize the need. And then, of course, it moves outside these settler colonial contexts because Indigenous communities are using the labels into international contexts, like into the into Europe and into other parts of the world where there's just a clear there's been a clear failure to properly understand what the consequence of not having any proper information around these collections does. And then who's making meaning about them? And yeah, Maui, do you want to take over what I'm saying? Sure, sure. So, you know, there's a couple of things in particular which I think also emerging is just the way in which people are trying to bring forward more, I guess, cultural metadata into these spaces. So, you know, to be able to engage and create different sorts of relationships. So, the use of the labels is something that supports the development of the relationship. You know, it doesn't all just happen through that. It's actually what happens because of your kind of reforming this relationship between communities and institutions. And then they can start to get into other discussions which might be some of the harder ones people have wanted to stay away from in terms of repatriation or kind of removal from circulation or just different sorts of ways in which those things might start to be thought about. So, I think that's kind of one of the places. The other bit is that in putting that relationship together we've seen examples that then communities are happy to bring more of their traditional knowledge into the public record and into sort of an open digital space which is going to be shared with everyone because they can be associated with that material. And you don't feel like having it available means that it's just kind of open slather and anyone can get in and do what they like with it. You've sort of got some limits. We know it's sort of a non-legal but it becomes very transparent to everyone about actually what appropriate kind of use looks like. And then that can then sort of transfer into other sorts of relationships that might involve a transfer of copyright. And that's some other work that Jane's been involved with particular communities as well. But I think we've seen interests. So, there's interest certainly here in New Zealand and talking with a number of the sort of museum and library and archives sector here. There's interest emerging in Australia, Canada, different parts of the U.S. I've been working with communities in Laos, people out of the E.U. that are working both in more sort of science spaces where they bring for traditional knowledge as part of climate change advocacy. And increasingly in that sort of biological space where people are having to respond to expectations under the Nagoya Protocol and the Convention on Biological Diversity. And so, you know, I think there's different sorts of pressures that people have recognized as an issue that needs to be dealt with and are just looking for kind of practical ways that they can start to, you know, start to address it. It's a long process. Look, I see people, I see Nick saying, this is a really great conversation. Nick, don't feel shy. Feel free to jump in. And I see Karen is here. Karen, please. I know this is an area that you're really keen on too. So please jump in. Yeah, I just wanted to say how wonderful this presentation was. And I just, just amazing. It really connects closely with a project that I'm working on with some folks at what's called the Rios Institute in the US. It's an institute for racially inclusive and open STEM education. So we're working on a grant that involves creating a tagging infrastructure for anti-racist STEM curricular materials. And so all of the things that you were talking about, like struggling to create a vocabulary, a framework, a tagging system for materials are the things that we're, you know, grappling with and how the struggle to create a tagging system of vocabulary is in itself a way of starting to discussion and creating education around these materials and cautious about, oh, well, how do I find these materials to teach and also how do I tag my own materials? Can I just put that my materials deserve this tag? Like how do I figure out how to do that? So these are, you know, parts of a project that where it's just a very incipient project that we're going to be writing a grant for, but those objectives of creating the tagging infrastructure but holding ourselves accountable in the work that we're doing for that tagging. So I don't know that I have a question other than just to say congratulations on this. So inspirational. I totally am going to share this recording with the others that are working on our project. That's great. Thank you so much, Karen. Feel free to drop that link in the chat. And Nick and Brahma and others feel free to show, you know, camera. We'd love just to at this point build community, frankly. I'll say quickly on the question of anti-racism. I feel like whiteness has been invisibleized by whiteness. That's kind of the crisis of whiteness is its own blindness. And there's something about looking at the history of the provenance and how the kind of cultural appropriation and how the glory of collections is built upon, you know, at exoticization and a cultural appropriation that's highly racialized. And so I feel like even just critical race theory is literally criminalized in the United States. Turtle Island right now. But part of the reason I feel like people are so terrified of it is white fragility. But also this helps show the how. Of how racism and white supremacist thought has happened is in these metadata and collections analysis. So their pedagogy potential is so rich there. Roman, do you want to jump into the conversation? You can unmute yourself. I have a very excited toddler at home. So that's why I've been pretty muted. And I also forgot about my background, but how perfect. But yeah, no, I wanted to say thank you for this session. It couldn't actually come at a better time for us at eCampus. I have my colleague, Stephen, who's also joining us. I'm going to go ahead and say thank you. And, you know, we've been sort of working on this huge open grant project at eCampus Ontario. And part of that really has been to invest in our indigenous Institute and indigenous communities in helping them actually create resources. And one of the things that, you know, I've learned throughout this process is really making sure that as we invest in their creation process, we also have our own, that as we invest in their creation process, we also respect how they want to label and share those resources, right? And that's always sort of being the struggle with the open community and indigenous resources. It's like that balance between create indigenous resources but also have it open doesn't really always work out hand in hand. And it's something that I think a lot of folks have to respect and also realize that too. And it was definitely a journey for myself to learn that sort of background understanding. So as part of that project, I've pretty much been looking at TK notices, TK label and I am in all with it. Part of that too is that, I've been working along with some other team on our metadata element and schema, which has been a huge project for us. But one of the things we really wanted to do was revamp, fix, update our metadata element. So as a librarian, I understand also metadata librarian, I understand how valuable and important metadata are and how much, you know, those outside of us may not understand how in order to find resource, you have to be able to identify. But in order to identify those resources, you have to be able to identify them within the cultural, social, political, economic, racial, I guess, sphere. I don't even know how to describe it but I think it's something that we can all understand where I'm trying to get at. So for me to being able to, I think I sent an email recently to local context and then I saw the session on OE Globes. I'm like, perfect. It was all connected. So I think I was definitely meant to attend this session send the email, be leading this project. And I also know that a lot of discussion and conversation has been happening with our Indigenous Institute and creators who are actually interested in learning more as they open up the idea about creating open educational resource, right? So they want to create resource, you know, that's theirs, but they also want to share it in the way that they want to share it. So I think, you know, like you say, having appropriate tagging and having the power and the sovereignty to actually identify your resource is just, you know, part of the process toward anti-colonialism, decolonialization and all the other nice fancy buzzwords, but that's all our faith. Hey, just sort of to add on that. So, you know, we showed the, one of the examples of a notice being used by the University of Tasmania. And so they've started, you know, putting it on some of their collections, but as a sort of a sideline project with that local community, they're the Palawa community, essentially curating a set of their traditional knowledge which will be available for use within curriculum projects at the University. And they have, as a part of that, putting traditional knowledge labels on kind of different aspects of that so that as it's being starting to be integrated into various courses, it'll be used in a sort of an appropriate manner. So those sorts of activities are starting to get underway. Thanks. Who haven't we heard from? This is where I start calling people. Nick, Jennifer, Sharon, Shannon, Sophie. When I jump into the conversation, you're invited. I'll jump in. I'll say hi. Kind of like I said in my comment, this is a little bit of an introduction for me into the world of open glam. It's something that I've heard talked about. I've done a little bit of work with some, like cultural history, crow history, some oral histories developing metadata for that. And I kind of found myself feeling like the metadata we were creating didn't necessarily take into consideration all the sensitivities that I felt like the material kind of covered. But what you were saying about, you know what you were presenting with the TK labels and things like that, I just, I really, it's really exciting to see how this stuff can kind of be represented differently. Like I have all of these ideas in my head, but I don't know what they are really. And to kind of come into this group and see you guys all a little bit further down the path, I think, and, you know, with some really solid ideas, with some really developed pathways, it's been really great for me. So thank you all for like a really wonderful session. I'm really enjoying it. Thanks. Not really a question, but. It's an affirmation. Good. I just, you know, just sort of thinking about that to, you know, when I got introduced to Jane and the TK labels, there's already been lots of decades worth of kind of working alongside communities. And I think that's that element of having the labels reflect the things which they wanted to sort of put alongside it and then trying to work out how they get systematized. And I've been involved with putting together guidelines around sort of Marty research ethics and doing things around genetic research, which are always really good for, like those sort of guidelines are useful for people that are doing the collection of the data and sort of like the generation of it. But it's the, when that material then gets put on a database somewhere and then all gets accessed by others, those guidelines aren't available to them. And so that sort of being able to translate some of those ideas that might have been, not always, but might have been a part of the generation of the data and have it travel with the data will be available to the next users is the thing that we've really been grappling with. And that's what I saw in the system that had been set up is that it made a sort of a, just a nice way of that happening through the use of the labels. And then that's where it's then got interested in how do you make sure that that information is always available, no matter where that data travels. So I can put it in one place, but if it gets then kind of aggregated into, you know, some other database somewhere else or some other kind of platform somewhere else, that those things, that information can still travel and be located in those places too. And that's why, partly why we've also been involved in a process with the IEEE to try and create a recommended practice around the provenance of Indigenous Peoples data. So can we giving some advice around what, you know, what those field, what that field should look like and then start thinking about what other sorts of fields do Indigenous Peoples think are important to be embedded across all sorts of other digital infrastructures. Fantastic work you guys are doing. Congratulations. And it's so helpful and useful to the open community at large, not just education, but the whole glam sector and beyond. It feels to me like highly relevant in open science as well. So we have time for a few more questions if anyone wants to add anything more. And it's great to see the interest in learning more expressed in chat. So Rama wants to know more about your schema. If no one has questions, I would just like to advocate for those of you who are creating curricula to use metadata more as a site for instruction because I do feel like it goes hand in hand with information literacy in terms of understanding the framework and the worldview that is expressed in metadata even when it purports to be neutral or tries to be invisible, you know, but we all are operating within our own cultural frames and being able to break out of that or just to recognize that you're in a frame is a huge learning opportunity. I feel like that a lot of people, even if they're using library materials, they're using archives and museum materials in their instruction are not necessarily diving deep into how those materials are presented. So I just encourage you to do more kind of metadata literacy around embedded in your curriculum. And along with that to like stay in contact, the goal for B2 and early 2022 is to have a platform where educators can make and share OER that's grounded in open-glam anti-clonial metadata layering and some capacity. So I think that the youth at this point are ready for this. I think they're excited metadata has kind of a dusty, you know, back-end type connotation at least in my generation, but I feel like this critical literacy, this focus on anti-racism, this focus on kind of uncovering and unpacking and unlearning, I think has a lot of potential to activate and catalyze critical thinking and also dialogue for young people. I think so too, and maybe as a close, I'll just share a personal story that happened to me here in Vancouver recently where in Canada, we're dealing with all kinds of reconciliation issues and we had some really serious issues surfaced recently around residential schools, but there's a church here in Vancouver where I live that is grappling with this in an interesting way. They have a plaque on the entrance foyer to the church, which talks about a former father of the church who worked with First Nations. And as they were renovating the church, they were trying to figure out what to do with this plaque. Should we just take it down and put it away or should we put it back up when the renovation's over? And as part of the process, they decided to learn more about who that father was because it turned out he was someone who was very aligned with the First Nations, but on the other hand, had supported the residential schools. And so they decided to investigate the history about the father, but they also hired a local carver to carve a totem pole for the new entrance to the church that's being constructed. And I just happened to be walking past the place where the carver was working on this pole and he was allowing people to come in and talk to him about the pole as he was carving it. And so I talked with him for a while and he also invited me to try carving part of the eye of the thunderbird, the spiritual symbol at the top of the pole. And so to actually have an opportunity to kind of hands-on be part of the carving of the pole was for me just a wonderful act of kind of participating in this reconciliation process in a very tangible real way. And it feels to me that this invitation for educators to get involved in these labels and the appropriate use of metadata is a similar invitation, not only for teachers, but for the students themselves to play an active role in being more aware of and part of solving these kinds of issues that we all face. So thank you so much for this session. And I really do encourage people to go and answer the questionnaire. I was looking through it myself. And so thanks so much for this interactive activity, all of you, really fascinating work and a really fantastic contribution to the field. Thank you, Sharon, Shannon, Sophie, Jennifer, Rama, Karen, Steven, Nick and the team. And Paul, so honored to be working with you. Please stay in contact. And thank you especially to Maui and Jane for your work. Yes, thank you. Bye-bye. Be well everyone. Bye everyone, thank you.