 Mae'r cyhoeddau cydwyddiadol yn ymweld i'n gweithio eu cydwyddiadol. Ysgrubus wedi'u cyfair a'r adrwyddiadol, y cyfair, cyfair, gyma, ac ydych chi'n fawr i'w fawr i'w cyfair cyfair? Mae'r cyfair yw gweld i'w cyfair, er mwyn 12 yma, rwyf yn gweithio yw'r cyfair a'r eich cyfair yn y ddweud. Ond, mae'r cyfair eich cyfair o'r adrwyddiadol, mae'r adrwyddiadol. Yw'r gweithio… Mae hwn yn ymwneud yn bicylltu hwn yn y ff targrif. Mae hi i chi yn ei ffwy ymwneud yw'r rai flynydd, ond mae hwn yn ddiwg rydym yn ddidd i. Byddai ymydd yma ymwneud hynny yn ddidd, ac mae hwn yn'n brofno thoseu ffiylineg. Mae'r ffwyllt, mae'r rai ffwyllt yn ffwyllt yn cymdeithasol, yn unrhyw 12 o'r ffowng. Yn cymdeithi, mae hwn yn ffwyllt naeth ydych yn eu hunig o'r a i'r rhaid o'r cyfnod ac oedd ychydig o'r cyfnod yn gweithgaredd. Ond, i'r rhaid, ydyn nhw'n rhoi i'r cyfnod, a'n ddiddordeb ac ydyn nhw'n rhoi lle o'r cyfnod yn ddiddordeb. Ydyn nhw'n rhaid ofiwyr eu croeddol o'r cyfnod ac o'r cyfnod yn cyfnod yn ddiddaredd. Mae'r cyfnod yn cael ei ddiddorddo ar y cyfnod ac mae'r ddiddordeb yn ddiddorddo. Mae'r gwirionedd ymwneud ym mwylo dimbylch ar hyn. Ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud fferfynodiol i chi a wneud ymwneud eu blaen yw, ond fy yw'r gwirionedd ymwneud. Mae'n gwybod am yr psychodau ar gyfer y lenghyd. Ymwneud yn fan i'r gwirionedd. Ym ymwneud am gyda Daniel Geasly ond rwy'n wedi 190.000, Mae'r hyn o'n bwysig o gweld meddwl, mae'n meddwl i'r ffons, oherwydd mae'n meddwl i'r bwysig ac rydyn nhw'n meddwl i'r ffons. Rydyn nhw'n meddwl i'r bwysig o gropio, mae'n meddwl i'r ffons. Mae'n byw'n cael ydw i. Rydyn ni'n meddwl i ddwy ffons yma, rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r gweithio. I can respond to it and we get other meetings from the team and then some mootos and swings also. As far as I'm trying to look into, I want to improve the other box experience in terms of what the issues are, which holds for sure that we should be able to fall to install and what we need to do to ensure that we have the support of certain languages. I'm a Q-Curtis. I actually have not officially been with Debbie and Aura went to and did work on audio processing for my microprocessor. Microprocessor? Microprocessor. What did you do? I worked on Word and some words with others. My name is Aaron. I'm not working with anything related. I talked to a subject that's interesting. I can put it into the microprocessor. I'll put it into the microprocessor. I went into a couple of fonts and they didn't come out. These are the ones that people use. I'll put it here. It's one of many interesting fonts from the internationalization. So it's making Debbie more universal. I should add that Paul was at the start of the font packaging team. He's too shy to say it. The idea comes also from Paul. Thank you, Paul. And we can use them. Basically, I just came because I saw the topic last time. I'll put it in the microprocessor. It's a good idea. Thank you. Should I introduce myself as well? Yes. I'll put it in the microprocessor. Right. My name is Yui-Wa-Lan. I'm Debbie and Wubuntu user. I'm actually very end users. I'm here because I was from Taiwan. I'm very interested in CJK issues, unfortunately, due to political reasons. I cannot involve very much in formalization and standardization of CJK. Me and my friends, we gather free software is the best way to get our voice and our ideas spread. Unfortunately, my friends, a couple of friends who are form people as well as implement the experts that can be here today due to various reasons. I'm here and I'm kind of the messenger as well to collect all the ideas and then pass around to them. So probably they are going to join you on IRC to do some development. I'm Nicholas Fallinger. I've volunteered with the SAO, the NGO. I've been using it for a while. Part of my university research did some work on collaboration and free software ethics within NGOs. I got in touch with some of the core projects that have been in SIL, and we wanted to contribute to that. Together with people like Victor Horthy and other people in SIL, we thought about the best policies and best practices to do ranking systems implementation. That was something that UNESCO asked SIL. Some of that research led to thinking around better ways of collaborating around fonts and font design. The key part, the key role that fonts play in a ranking system. We embarked on a community review process of a license from the foundation for that collaboration. I conducted various people in the community. Submitted one-two specs, went to the various conferences to be able to submit to the bibliographic meetings and so on. So this talk is going to give you an overview in a few minutes to give you an overview of what's been happening around open fonts for the past few years, I guess. The plans we have with the whole open font movement that's growing now within Devian Ubuntu and Untrother, I guess. And then it's going to be an open discussion on what both the package dash fonts idea team want to do, and then the mirror kind of a font team is going to, for this cycle, for the next step. So let's just get this one to the other letter and if I'm not very legible, if I say stuff that's not really understandable, if I go too fast or too slow, it's not going to be an open discussion. So do you want to try to connect to the projector? Just before it expands on the website. Niclas, do you want to stand next to the monitor and the screen? We can do that? Yeah. I'll just give you instructions for that. So I've brought also a few items here that are described. This is the book that was produced for the LiboGraphics meeting using open fonts and scrivers that look and that's around. That file is for some of the open fonts and then this is the HTML database. I'll run just up the world. Okay. We have also a very nice already book on fonts and encodings. This is a French version. Lots of very good things in there for those who wish to help maintain fonts or understand how fonts work within a writing system. There is an English version being worked on at the stage. It's still going to take a few weeks or months to get open. It's coming. Do you want to hook it up to the projector? Yeah. We have a laptop. Spanners have taken over the website. So we have something like a good hour to go through these slides and then talk about where you want to go. So if we really think about it, fonts are really a building that's quite crucial in the first half of our universe without fonts, nothing really works. Without fonts in your own language then you're stuck with using your desktop or even your current line interfacing in a font that's not in the language that's up. Your answer makes it a lot trickier. Do you want to come over and... Yeah. So the story of the collaborative font design has really had a tough beginning because it's a place where you only find people that are very good artists and that they know the intricacies of computer systems. So you only have a handful of very good typographers on the planet. More than a handful, you get the ideas. You get a lot more very good coders than you get good typographers. So there have been fonts donated to the free software communities in the past, but not really fonts that have been made to be free and to be worked on in a collaborative fashion. So the work of Victor Courtney around Gentium was probably one of the big milestones in that it was a font that was well-recognised in the time community. It won awards and things, and also a font that the designer intended to be widely available to be an enabler of new languages that intended to... So this is in Thailand, isn't it? Gentium, it's the name of the font. It means Latin, it means belonging to the nation, so it's yours. Is it in WN? Yeah, it is in WN. So it didn't still want to be in WN. The research that was done by SNL with Wines Code kind of brought this desire of Victor Courtney to make it more collaborative to the forefront. Gentium was the first one released under the WN, the open font license, and thankfully now you get... So one of the challenges that we have is very language-specific, and so occasionally we get feedback from the music community or something that says this font doesn't work right. But it doesn't work right or work properly with my language, and it's very difficult for us to make a decision on it. Yeah, it's a trickiness because for a font designer to really do a good job, it has to have a good understanding of the cultural aspects. It's not just drawing lines. It's also a technicality of the rendering system. It's also knowing how the script should look like, and this is really hard. Then we have also the problem of having a font that covers multiple scripts, so it might be great in one locale and in one language, but I just suck at having a locale. The stack is only recently coming to finding solutions to have blacklist sections, possibly a list. We're still not quite there yet, but the font config thing is already a big step forward compared to what we had originally with the X over a bit. Still more to do in terms of the preference list of fonts, and so there's a proposal down there for a number of people in the community. So even if we had good quality for deep fonts for a script that mattered to us, and we had good software tools for selecting character ranges and things for it, so we had the ability to make everything perfect. We still have this problem of knowing what's right. If you really have strong community, and you have a broad range of languages to get information and get consensus about it, how do you see that coming together in a different context, where you can get consensus in the free software community about what's really good to get feedback and ask someone who needs this workflow? I think part of it will be to get a frustration into place to get polls from the users and mainly think of translation or something that we discussed earlier. I think in the team maybe, getting their input into what font is most appropriate, and I'm also thinking it's a question of educating the open font designer community that's coming on to get that done as a candidate. Yes, certainly a prioritisation. So this is just a view of the form form or a couple of open fonts. So GFS is the Greek font society. They've done a bunch of font-read articles and liberated that recently. So you get Handika, you get Old Standard, Abyssinica and Fonsonata. That's a nice font also. Released recently. Do you want to go to it? Yes. So just the review. I already went over that. With a side of the Dabien and the Good Front team, there's also a project called the Open Front Library and then script source that will work on getting community together around this. Overview of the talk. So a grant on freedom. The UNESCO and SNF efforts. Definitely I've already talked about that. The community timeline for the Open Front license. What's interesting now in the font stack and a quick overview of the fonts we already have. Community projects around Open Front, various sites, et cetera. Metadata for signing up information about that. In the fonts, the tools are coming together as well. The way we can work better on collaboration on these fonts in terms of entrepreneurship. This is rules or best practices we can have between the Dabien and the Good Front team and maybe the Fedora and others. The campaign that we're running to engage more designers and tell them your fonts would be a great asset to free software. Would you consider releasing some fonts and giving your work world stages? Or would you contribute to that? So we have the support that people can take. We have support from various key organizations in the community. Uniform.org, Silent International, Free Desktop, Non-Foundation, NKD project, and so on. Armworld as well. And then also a quick touch on Open Front in the context of the ROTC. And then we'll have a discussion on that as well. So a quick baby question. What's the font? The trickiness of getting free software fonts has been shown. The time that it's taken us to come this far because fonts kind of float in the middle between art and code. So if you want to go to the next one. The definition is still kind of... I mean, not everybody agrees on it, but the Free Software Foundation has created an extra section in their license list. So you get software license, license of documentation, works besides software documentation, and so on. So they recognize that it's kind of a different type of software with some artistic requirements. And so this is the block. So not all the various font licenses that people have cooked up over the years are up here there, but you can use the GBL for fonts that their fonts are on, but later on, the exception and so on. The outfit has been reviewed initially and it's been while it's out there. It's causing problems as well. And then the open access, which is right in there today. So the version 1.0 and version 1.1.2. So if we start back and ask ourselves why is it important? Why do we need free fonts at all? So we know we need free software. A lot of our fonts still... to be able to create documents and things and use the system, so you need fonts to be available when it is made. The key thing is for NGOs, for example, to have the means of increasing work literacy and the whole A2K access to knowledge, open access, the way science is trying to follow the free software ethics. You need fonts to be able to publish your documents. And in the OVC context, if a kid out there, a Niger or places in Asia where they're going to experiment with prototypes of the OVC, they need to have fonts that render correctly in the local script. If you don't have fonts, then it's harder to learn. And we also need to be able to fix them. Font designers might be very good, but they are not. So we need to be able to fix and extend them. And we're going to rely on limited, restricted fonts for someone. Think of the web core fonts, for example. Even in Dabien, a lot of people still have the US core fonts installed. So, and of course, what do we need it because we want more locale, we want more languages in the game, more front-end, I need it again. And I'm not sure if I'm writing that correctly, but I'm going to see more of Tancara success stories. Tancara. What is Zonka? Zonka is the national language in Bhutan. So that's very important. What Bhutan wants is very keen to preserve the national culture and language. And they based their national learning solution on Dabien. And mostly because they want an operating system in Zonka. And as Microsoft never gave them any support mostly because of political issues with China. Because of Tibetan script and like, they turn that to a little work based on Dabien mostly. So there was work within the Dabien community to produce all the right elements to enable the locale and improve the relative distance for that. So the Dabien language is one among many, you see the size of the FNL, there are many people who are probably in the same situation. And so Dabien should be an enabler for that for example. Thanks. And from the perspective of form designers, what's the actual use and purpose and what's the name of the form designer. So there are many front licenses, many new labs and many different foundries doing different things. Having a unified value community-approved model that people trust and that is really clear and legible is going to be good for you as a designer because you know what's going to happen. And people who use your phones also will know. If you're creating trust. And then some people have experimented with bits of phones 9g. I think it really is that. And have others will contribute to provide some extent coverage and so on. And of course, like we increasingly see in the free software world, more artists are getting drawn in because they see the value of creating something that is going to be widely used. Having world stages for your art is cool. So getting visibility for design skills. The approach also is that artists have this artistic integrity thing, which is very understandable. So you want a license that allows you to branch to do different things to the phone but kind of retain minimal artistic integrity and reference to the team. So this is the solution that has been proposed by SIL to the community and various community members have contributed and refined the model over the last few years. So this is the solution. If you want to go to the next slide, there's a preamble. It's very popular license. The goals of the open phone license are all by development of collaborative phone projects. It's for the phone creation efforts of economic and linguistic communities, provide a free open framework in which fonts may be shared and improved in partnership with others. We have followed the license fonts to be used, studied, modified and distributed freely as long as they are not solved by excellence. The fonts, including any derivative works can be bundled, embedded, redistributed and or sold with any software provided that any reserved names however, cannot be released under any other type of license. The requirements for fonts to remain under this license does not apply to any document created using the fonts of the reptile. So you see, the rights are spread out very clearly the description of the license itself and then you have a number of basic restrictions that designers need that encourages designers to contribute but then you have these restrictions don't conflict with the DSG for example. We've found the right nexus to satisfy the type of community and free software. Do you want to go to the next one? Don't you say reserved names? What does that mean? It means that with your copyright on a font that you design you can say branch all you want but don't use the same name so you're asked to rename it's like a very response where you have in the archive that De Javu cannot be called Vera because it's downstream of Vera and Vera has reserved a name it's the nexus that there are similar name protection causes in other... Does this mean that we have to rename fonts from the caption for a bonus for example? The patch is really a different thing it's also coming with talking to upstream sending the patch like this. It depends on the nature of the patch because if you're changing any of the glyphs what are you worried about is that you'll put out some really happy font under the same name that you screwed up inside? This is really artistic integrity it's the key central point where you want to do it under a different name because there were initial licenses other experiences have been done in the past by other people and say you're allowed to change only that or you're allowed to change only the smarts only the glyphs but we want to give this is the best compromise if you want that's been found to get the best of post work there's an ESHG4 that says that name changes are allowed and it's really crucial for so if all that you're interested in is to have a font which you can really modify and just so that there's no chaos in the namespace then there are some names that are reserved and then from that on you can choose any name you want but the idea is that the namespace stays clean but people can branch people can do they won't take it into new directions fix them adapt them to their language if you just go on the next one there's a visual model I don't know you've probably seen the CC like icons that you there's even a plugin in your browser that can house the metadata in the page and then show you the little icons that visually describe the rights on the page so we've done the same for the ESHG4 so you get so these are the full permits and inquiries and this is the visual expression so I'll start with the names there so it permits reproduction distribution, embedding, derivative works so embedding is really important because most of the font licenses that were used before don't get the embedding requirement they make it very hard if you use a spremus an embed a font then most of the time the font license really just allows you to embedding or if it allows you then it comes with strings attention having a license that explicitly says that you can embed is really something that's unique and derivative works so you say you can branch in whatever you want so for the model to work it has a few requests really something that's everywhere notice, so you want to keep the notice of the license and things and it has the share like aspect so it inherits the license and then the copyright from the trunk that you branch from and it has a requirement of renaming derivatives and then the small requirement that we felt were, we actually asked many of the font designers in the private community the restriction that they wanted was to keep the fonts that they would release under such license to directly be popped into the distribution and setting circle of other foundries many designers have been bitten and they have some memory about this because they designed fonts and then some small foundry just takes it, makes a little change and sometimes they don't even change it and then they just resell it on like a cheap $15,000 fonts on the CD for $20 or something and that's really something that designers need so having that restriction there is needed to aggregate that fear but it doesn't fail the FSG number one because the FSG number one says that you have to be able to sell as part of an aggregate so we found the nexus again between the needs of the time community and the requirements and the wider free stuff just to make a point about that last year surely all those people that wanted to rip off the fonts put like a small EXE on a CD number one the client is going to understand that they've been ripped off because they will see the inheritance of the notice and they will see that and say like so from the free stuff track perspective it's very critically circumvented but from the time community it's something that is really needed so we have an excuse we have something that comes together so just the visual items now so we'll guide the attribution so this is the share line the cycle thing this is the embedding also so we have a little letter with a document inside so that there will be the trunk and then we have a branch down there that has a different style and also a different name and then we have a small restriction so that's the visual representation of the model Is that similar to the use of the same clips as Creative Commons? Yeah exactly we added a few extra elements and we are it's not endorsed by Creative Commons but we talked to John Phillips because he works for Creative Commons he's also involved in the open front library and he's the one who helped us with that so it's similar in a sense but he has a few extra things that are specific to his design so like I said the whole thinking on this starts with the work done on Jethu I've seen this passed it around here so it's a winning fund it's got many records it was done as part of university requirements in one of the most prestigious topography fund design school in Reading England so you see it's a very strong original design, very legible beautiful and it's in Indian style it was part of the research that was commissioned by UNESCO and ASIL's expert on literacy and writing systems were commissioned by UNESCO to do research on writing systems and implementation best practices the idea was to promote cultural diversity and allowing more nations to express themselves on society's face and get access to new content and so ASIL contributed with a number of papers and software the whole stack from the input method to the smart rendering engine Daniel for example has worked quite extensively on the graphite smart rendering engine and then also integrating that rendering engine into the key apps like Mozilla Suite Firefox et cetera so web and email and so on also we have a patch that will soon land in the trunk for and we also have a pango module that enables the whole of Benovo to use these extra renderers so it's coming on packages are in the new queue so it's coming very soon thanks you're using TrueTech format or some other format this is the extension of the TrueTech OpenType format where you have an extra table that holds the smart information so the idea is instead of waiting for a new version of the rendering system to come out you have like an interpreter in the rendering system and then the smarts are in the front itself so many language communities have been waiting for years for Windows to kind of bring their rendering system into shape for their language some are still waiting but having the interpreter set you only need to write the rules for the forms you don't need a new version of the interpreter for every new clip so that's much better say we have an example of somebody working on a new script out there in the jungle they would just have to add extra information to the form then works this is for hinting this is not for rendering of OpenType OpenType is published back but Adobe has got it but yeah there were there were yeah this is hard to know the pattern things it's how it sends in a way of people having language working so just a quick thing but we can always look at the stuff that I've put on the table but yeah so the things we do is providing the tools for these language communities doing translation doing literacy producing fonts and software so we've been to various conferences showing the free software and the free fonts that we have it's a new implementation of tech it's now in tech live it's in sync it's coming in to be able to use native fonts within your tech environment and it's also like I said before Tango, Obnopis and SmartInput allowing you to switch keyboards there are a whole range of keyboards that have been used by linguists in a format for Windows only application called Keyman and we've worked with the software company that does that to have it work with the source compatible keyboards that can be used on the menu and the router and that is good so literacy work yeah sometimes you're starting to scratch it sometimes you want to reuse what's probably been done in other writing systems but it's really a hard test the better the tools that we can give to the linguists for example the better they are and the closer we can be to their knowledge sometimes you need to have smart fonts the script is to context to be to be to complemented the results of the tech that's to follow what we can see is that there's a desire that we can create a platform which can display content from any information at the moment it seems that font coverage seems to be very specific to that and then some other area which means that you end up having multiple fonts which then from a content creation point of view creates a development for people that they have all of these fonts and I don't know which I have to choose this is where we need to work on the tech making a sponsor font menu, making better font selection and it's going to be impossible to put all the glyphs that we know in one single font it's going to be a collection of fonts that are linked to some of that through front config and similar technologies so that's to balance the issue of the font technology where you end up learning all fonts in the memory so you don't want the single font that can gather all the content because we don't need to solve that problem so then in a sense the echo is an evolving technology so I can't remember the details but there's a good limit in the tree types found earlier that can only be 64K that could dissolve really much better than that For example, the Adobe project has made the choice to split they have the standard font they've made the solution they've decided they have this French activity in this very dynamic team but they've decided that they are going to split and make fonts under covering a specific block into a different physical font so it's hard to get consistency really from one block to the other and probably they are going to be conflicting blocks still to be out of this people using the same split will want to have a particular style because Unicode is a character for one character you have multiple words this is where it gets to keep it I think this work being done Keith Packard is working on a trigger from the university is also working on getting things better in that area we have to attack this thing so a few examples of the complexities that we can get from the contextual behaviour of the second activities this is really there is a I don't speak very easily this is where one letter goes around the other one not just recontextualising and then you get signatures and split cards maybe you can do a demo of some of the behaviours of the graphite it didn't open type enable all that stuff already it goes up to a certain level but many many languages have to go further than what opens up or AHE which is the graphite we have graphite which is a platform which has this approach all the spots are in front so it allows you to it's really designed to be extensible and then you have some features depending on your context you will want to have a particular character we want to have a different place the education or the toolkit we'll need to support that as well so that's only a limited set of applications that can do that but it's coming in actually there is a good example maybe you've seen post by a class CECedal very active contributor to international education in Vietnam they really want their characteristics to be exactly there so if it's really not right then it's just going to be a thing to do I mean that's the example that's the same and then you have features of the small caps but that's the same content so in a sense you could have the web page that has the same value but depending on the context and depending on extra metadata it will do the right thing have you been in touch with the early part? they have a tech implementation a music type setting and it's extremely fussy about the exact like because they've done a great job with that I don't know if there's something to be there there's a music from there I'm going to mention that so it's a big text so the DA so this is the website for the open from license so you see the community review we wrote the fact to the FQ to to make it easier to understand we want to evolve the community review process try to gather all the experts go to as many conferences as we could and get all the feedback that that was possible and yeah, come on the result the quickest of many interviews that we had from a minute 1, 2, 3, 4 5, 6, 7, 8 all these people they've been very helpful in creating the model that will satisfy everyone that will unify our collaboration around the around the models so big thank you to you thank you can I go on? now I'll also give some good pointers and I think when I went to summit I got some good feedback which feedback from me too so yeah, thanks timeline so we want to do this with the RMS obviously to get a license to talk to the RMS because the license grew so meeting folks in the hope to understand the release in France the entire meeting for the type community so it will be presented the model that should get feedback from the design WSIS so firstly on November 2005 then other another ETII meeting during the summit BOREC where they also presented some of the front technology that we have we have another front web there Text My Out Summit this is one of the where a lot of these crucial issues for the future of the free desktop bar being discussed by the experts so the next one is going to happen very soon as part of the academy and then we have the legal graphics meeting the open form the open office conference and then lots of discussions privately or by the meeting and then we have a revised notion the one on February 2007 and we also presented that with Dave Costins on the open form library at the legal graphics meeting in Markburn and the result is that we have an open virtual form in May so the first one to come in 2006 it was synced all that work but I want another digital this one so now just a quick overview of the various community that are coming together on the open form so one key contribution of the digital project the breakpoint society has done tons of things as well including some work on the tech funds it's the major NGO at this stage that has released a form under the hotel Uniform.org is a very good resource for free and fully licensed and open open office response it has this very cool thing that you have to try the form playground allows you to get smart remembering right there in your website for a number of complex scripts you just pick a nice problem in the language and you get a chosen problem nice remembering Etrogyn is a very big contributor to the tech space and he hasn't made a proposal on getting a smarter response and then this is the catalogue lots of things you see the activity more and more people are releasing and this is the playground that's one there's a catalogue of the response also on your website to the number that is rising the definition is we have also a type form which is another type or type of activity that has happened type osio it is also a thing called eftan eftan is a resource from students doing programming and wanting to share the content out if you want it in the community and this is another project from SAEL maybe you've seen the catalogue the big database is on the world's language this is coming out of decades of experience and surveyed by 15th edition already so the plan is to do something similar with a source forge approach of that approach around writing systems so if you wanted to develop a font for your particular script you would find resources on here an example of one of the most active sites in the community also the open front library is one of the key mention of the Deja Vu font he's been doing tons of things and recently he's very much into music and creation recently he wanted to do a musical that he mentioned before and released it with the source so what people can have to do a lot of characters in Unicode see you have a description here you taught us the Unicode musical symbols but that's something like 150 English I think characters I mean and it also has more in private music area so it's done amazing work and so it's under the open front license the engine that handles the open front library has integrated the open front license as a license the online engine is a CC host built by John Felicton just on the creative comments you can set up a site like that and choose the license that you want people to upload to Unicode so this is one of the code forms that came out and like I said CC host has integrated but we want to integrate it in other places we want to go on we have it integrated in a major pre software font editor called Fonfange so if you go to the TfMA you state your copyright and so on and if you request a button you already see the official metadata in there it's a recommended choice from the Fonfange developers and you see this is just the known font viewer that shows this is the font that Lyric Ref Levin created called Inconsulata it's just enter the archive really nice terminal font also designed for printing out code license and it's open so it's yes it's out there Fonfange you need to have to get the SIL of the font the one that's Incil it's not in Exxon maybe it's back there's a reason George William the author of Fonfange was at the labour graphics meeting so he did that before the labour graphics meeting but he's also looking at directly introducing the Fonfange tool with the open font library so you could like grab it out there and publish it so how was that for a font editor you want to go on and then see so in your form when you would have put it in your font you can we also have a patch for landscape so you can type the tools that you're using because many designers do experiments with actors before actually going into the font editor so it's just like the reference and so you could choose the license that you would type about the Exxon of course the PG and then so the presence is coming on the patch is almost ready to be doing Do you think that the landscape in Fonfange will get better integration? They're kind of doing different things but they're at least a common format that they understand but Fonfange is really a one-man operation George Wooden is a genius product he's been doing all that brilliant work there on Fonfange himself for a long time and the landscape team is a bit bigger but I think they can collaborate somehow but I'm not sure that is a good idea but there is I'll show that later on but there is a tool that Ref Levin has created called called Spiro that implements new curved technology and both Fonfange and Inkscape are interesting it's like you know about Bezier curves this is a new type of curve you don't care so just a few experiments with the Gdown Fonfange where we expose more of the metadata that is in the front so you'd see a license URL, you'd see a license you'd have a civil school license or an expander you'd have that the name of the designer the name of the the URL of the website of the designer if there are any trade marks so by default the format has this metadata it's just a question of exposing it it's good I guess for an end user to be able to see easily where the font is coming from what else the designer has done it's also very good for the designer to expose that this is what the font data project proposal looks like at this stage so you would have a tree view and you'd have markers that would classify the fonts in terms of what they can do if there are bi directions or like that and then we would have also licensing information showing you that instead of having a flat list that is overwhelming I mean by default the first thing you see is the Arabic package which all starts with A if you don't know the Arabic script you're scrolling down next so doing that grouping by locale if you're in a particular locale you might not want otherwise you can always activate it you might not want a type of font to be so just kind of smart grouping would be nice he's working on making the whole font folder exposed as a metadata object that you can query with so you have sets where you can say I want all the fonts for this language from this designer and with this capability and they will show it to you so by default you have a smart font menu and also the possibility of creating these sets and now over your spiral go quickly on it so this is a notebook again you take the image segment it cut it so you get all the shapes the length of the shapes and then you take these shapes into the font editor part of the toolkit and then you trace your points with the special user spirals and then the advantage of the user spiral if the smoothness is calculated it's much harder with veggies to get the right smoothness even an experienced designer can take time to get the curve perfect but with a user spiral it's really more intuitive if you just move one point the smoothness is not going to be complicated and this is what Raf is doing on a major forum for photographers I feel sorry for all these cool designers who are still stuck with using veggies so much easier so hopefully this will be integrated there soon thanks hi hi hi hi hi so you start tracing using spiral and what spiral can do is then it can export to font font format so you trace your font using spiral and you can continue with font font so you see the points are placed very nicely just like if a designer would have placed them manually but it's been done via a smart conversion script for many years so the code is out there it's on the web website there's an ITD on the way should be applicable very soon based on it's room care and the toolkit comes with a number of code so with this with these different ways of specifying is that required changing all the fonts or does it eventually get converted to Bezier or what happens to old fonts there's a format that Raf has written to hold information in this code so is there a new proposal for a new way of doing fonts is that what you're saying? yeah he's been doing a max phd at Berkeley on this technology he's submitted it he's a PhD published person and he's implemented the research that he's done so you can stay with spiral it's kind of experimental at this stage but there's a way to import it into font font so you can keep I mean you can use the old routers I mean it's not about another one but you're saying this is the source aspect then you always build a font okay as far as links now that you can build it on from scratch it's still experimental there's still a few steps that you have to go from but at least you can do the drawing and then go for the final steps into font font I have to change the type for the camera so it has a little higher patent then so you're free to implement the technology and the research under the GDR or you're free to pay rather than let's see the first and it's worked very well for things like the gift print for them so you mean there's a patent grant if you want to implement the technology under the GDR yes that's what Rathlefin has done so one of the other approaches that he is setting up also with Dave Pusman is getting these special curves also within Mactella cameras so you would be able to to do it from your website directly so you would have a spiral on the web type thing and the idea behind that is to get a collaboration to another level really a comparison you would have a page for a character and people would be able to just take the posts and see the results it's self highly experimental but you can see if you go to this website you can already manipulate the curves and test the rendering directly within Mactella and there are other things in the toolkit a human specimen to compare forms that you have installed really nice Fontypacin is a patent script to create a set at this stage it's just creating links to activate forms or the active event we're hoping that we get a more elegant solution by Fontypacin but it's already able to do a number of things and then there's the expert pick that represents one of the area in Fontypacin in the XML format so and then there's this great library that's written by a member who's been doing a very very carry Fontypacin for ages he's written a whole library with a bunch of scripts to do all kind of things and it's there it's not there, it's stored in the archive it's in Wintwil it's using it in a build so it's not in your build it's pre-processing post-processing things by this library and then Fontypacin has also released a hinging gear and then there are a lot of patent scripts floating around because the major tool that has been used by Fontypacin from designers is called Fulpan patent scripting engineering there so most of the advanced Fontypacin is at patent scripting collection to do that so Mr Mark adds himself first on a login written so a long ago some in fact all thought about collaboration and so on so three key items written and written by Fontypacin strong community and then distributed revision control and I think we're getting there with a particular control on community we get a license that's been accepted and evaluated we get a community following you've seen all these websites and people starting to consider different variables and then with all the format from Fontypacin spiral we can install them in a revision control if it's distributed in there and it's going to be easier for us to collaborate with other derivatives other distros even the VAT and so on what is also in the works is a call set that would be expected to be on every distro it's like the call funds the common funds by other creators great so now back to the licensing so why didn't we just use licenses that were there already because there were some great areas there were some really important things so the everything I mentioned earlier the stages of derivatives for example because of you, you don't really know what the license is supposed to be for a derivative it's clear and these great areas discourage some designers but generally so you bring more something that's readable and some licenses that were there were exactly readable in the sense that they were literally talking about software and not really Fontypacin and then we need something with a strong name and artistic integrity factor in mechanism and we wanted also to kind of yeah license if had the problem of easily being able to fall into the selling circuit that Fontypacin is throwing a piece of paper about and the ability the fact that you had to read a three page document to understand the license but he would talk only about software, he would talk about library he would talk about linking the things that not really makes sense to the Fontypacin the problem was that we had many licenses and we kind of tried to open Fontypacin so we needed something to unify that and also the definition of full source was not quite clear I wonder if they want to find a sort of paper or more distortion stuff oh yeah, we are next time please so you're probably better like I said so it put it embedding the reputation protection for branching as well the description of selling, the fact the unification of Fontypacin and also it's usual, it's not tight with this big project, it's reusable because you have the optic license you have the bedroom license you have the the bare license where it was tight to an organization, tight to a product and then one common license that people agree on is much better Fontypacin we were voiced by the Debian legal community when we did the review yeah, the Debian legal folks they had this wonderful ability to think of any scenario it's great they had some very interesting things and helped us a lot in some of the areas but sometimes they were like how many angel on this pin and so the discussion wasn't all that easy but some of the things that were voiced were the fact that the URL is a bit because a bit over what we do in terms of name protection but I see it and then some people didn't like the interpreted the FSG1 definitely that has to be the same, it has to be consistent with the way it's interpreted for Deja Vu for example the fact that you can't sell it on its own you put a shark with something and Debian is fine because Debian is not distributing Fontypacin on a fly in Fontypacin on their own are not that useful so they come to something else they're really useful when they're bundled and the naming restriction we kind of clarified the intent on that and it's really the primary name it's not names in the documentation it's the name that's exposed to the Andrews you don't want to confuse the Andrews in having a name that corresponds to another branch so if you have two branches that are different but have the same name they expect different features different behaviours different coverage that might be in the other branch but not in this one so this is something that it's already in other languages and the Julia incompatibility that's the idea if you go back to the FSF website and in the font section they say it's normal for fonts to be GKL incompatible you can't really merge the font with a piece of it it's the aggregation that works and the the URL has a copy left clause so you inherit the license so two copy left licenses can't really be compatible that's a given the the FSG doesn't say that everything has to be incompatible it's just in Europe it's targeting different needs the GPO needs a great license but of course it's renamed and then some people say okay what about configuration files that are under the license and then they say if you have a package in inclination then you're branching and you have to rename and then people say use a random reserve name you create a font blog and then you cover a lot of names so that nobody can reuse the names that's really taking the problem from the river the idea is to keep the names clean if people want to over-protect things then people are going to look after and most of the fonts that we have just protect the names that already exist or label the orientation so it's not to reflect badly if there's a branch time that's really great and then some people say about the embedding then trying to define what a document is unless you're following a a lot of great things and other people are great at imagination but a lot of experts too but sometimes the signal and the noise is a bit hard to distinguish but we get good feedback and hopefully get to be able to decide what goes into the app what really what satisfies the requirements I guess the look at some of the scenarios that even legal contributors are working on but I guess they think that are most closer to that The redhead? No, we're working with the redhead team on aggregating a better model the font, the license on the GPR plus two exceptions one exception being the the font exception that got written by David Turner from the Facebook foundation the problem is the exception said it's not familiar so the exception said you can embed the font on the GPR I mean it's a fact I'll have to rephrase that the exception said you are free to embed the font on the GPR into a document it does not cause the resulting document to be on the GPR but it also said and this is really the problem that you can remove the exception later on so you can have further down the line when people make modifications you can use the font and if the software that you're embedding for you then your document is under the GPR and you don't really know what so it's not very clear either the exception is done and the GPR isn't really designed for documents how are you going to set by the GPR requirements with the document are you going to provide the sources are you going to provide offers for the sources are you going to educate the team they're looking into they're looking into other models they're going to do what they want I mean it's a great answer to get some information what are the issues that are left for them they're there's a policy within Red Hat that's what I know to I mean they have to only approve licenses that have been through the OSI selection board thing which the OSI hasn't at this stage so it's approved by GFF we had the query reviewers but we didn't really go to the OSI but we can talk about it later on there are efforts to unification on licenses and the problem with the font embedding is really a crucial one I haven't thought about it for a long time and it's really not something that you want that your software automatically influences the document that is outputting in this software this is not something that is really desirable it should really make it clear and that's that's why especially in the word hell it says that you can derive the effort you can reuse you can embed it doesn't inherit the license only if you may find the font then you inherit the license but the GPL itself makes a distinction between using the font and using the software and then outputting the use and the revision and outputting are two different things but the problem with the accessibility is that the plan is now encouraging designers to release more fonts and then we can play with the toolkit for the branch so we have this website for the USF campaign so if you know of phone designers or people who are wondering what would be the next model to release a font then this is the lesser template that you can use and write them and say okay, consider this model it would make sense to see if you know how to release a font it's community related it's in the domain you can trust it are there any existing fonts that have been re-licensed on the problem? yeah the example I put earlier on the grid the grid font society had for years worked on revivals grid fonts and the CMOS 10 days from the gun translation project and a number of other things has been in touch with them and advocated by lots of them people working on the zone problems so are you willing to re-license their fonts or something like that? I was wondering about fonts that can't be not free yeah, that's the idea it really works best for people working for volunteers taking this letter and like they contact the people they know see if it makes sense to them it's always up to the designer to decide what license is we're not forcing anyone the first challenge is to identify the fonts that we currently have in the domain which are not free because they are in the main and most of the font packages are live a few of us have been fighting against the TTF in big fonts because of that problem and when you dig into it you just realize that from designers you just don't know anything about fonts about license about fonts they know but we know about licenses but most of the time not about fonts and there are so many sites out there that post freeware for about freeware fonts that have been taken out of foundries, catalogs so on the one hand you get respectful font designers that do great work for hire the new set of fonts for the upcoming my question or the new fonts for Vista they go just beautiful but they're really really restricted you can't even I mean it's not free and somewhere in the middle there are artists who get fonts but they don't really care where it's coming from I just got this website where you can download 25,000 fonts and they don't know where they're coming from and then at the other end of the spectrum we get a growing number of open font designers who really want to pay attention who want to describe the modifications that they do is there any activity in Asia or is it more like the European thing there are people working on the info but they don't have to be in Asia I guess but you have to know the script I guess to do it with each other I'll try to release the number of fonts for Asian creators but you work for the TTF male audience it originates for Cambodia it's been done by for what license is that I think this is I'm going to be transferring that to someone who actually knows Cymru I found a guy in Sydney who all of the Sydney things go out in the response room when he maintains it so that's good for me yeah thank you so for me in the context of the of the LBC it's one laptop per channel and this is also a context for where we need the effects to be able to to many, many fonts it makes it easier to maintain as well and the more descriptions you get the less problems you get where certain beliefs actually really are taken from a number of fonts and then there's been some some work done and then it's kind of mixed we're in touch with Jim Getty and others at the LBC to look at what would be the best strategy in terms of open fonts for the LBC platform in the latest build I've tried they're using data loop which only covers a number of things starting to have some smarts and things but it needs to go further because the horizon on the LBC is really large so I've read a few I would go I think a post from the group in Nigeria I think that has settled on Gengyn has a font for Igbo, Yruba and some of the language there and it's really up to the local LBC itself project to do the review and this is probably something that we can pull into our review system and in that way work together with them but yeah I think the children out there in Nigeria or I don't know they want to have their fonts look good as well this is just a shot from OBC Greece where they've tested also the Greek in Gengyn and it looks good to them and left and gone and there are other things just a few ideas I want to surround to go to the next one oh my god oh my god there are some of the ideas that I want to push forward things that we can discuss on the list but I think we should send it most other things need a deeper discussion most of it is mostly on the list of course it would be a hard part because font name policy for instance would be something very hard to achieve because it involves transitions in language names so that's a first big challenge working on the various font tools like e-forma on the one thing some of them are completely un-maintained and it's really tricky to make especially with e-forma obviously so that there are big big challenges I think we are if we put the font packaging team we first have to secure down team make it strong and more than a collection of individual and slowly build some policy on the example this is really long-term stuff here again this is really long-term stuff this is not the way it's going for linear okay I've got some short-term type of questions first of all is there a difference between a bunch of data and data with font support right there is it practically the same? since a bunch of text data and packages and stabilisers mostly the thing there and with the font team in the bunch and yeah this is something that an area that can be good collaboration that might have to be but with people have the initiative to try to gather ideas about this idea I think we are close to nearly merge the teams there are no areas for some hot discussions we can have on other topics so I think the font development, the font packaging it's something that it's pretty easy to converge we don't have we're not using a repository on the website so we could just use the other repository and think with that I'm going to ask the I'm going to ask the a few members of the font team who have not joined the other team to do it so we can go and with regards my requirements and my thoughts are only with the web so I mean the hotel seems like quite an accomplishment but I'm just wondering how Jentyn sort of fits in with the whole you know web portal and all that stuff I don't think we could ever get there could it? well it's one of the fonts that are it's been in a lot of places I saw the page where the CSS font family also mentioned it's not easy from what you're putting here on the site so you have a mechanism for people to get the font that you've intended isn't it one click font itself I'm working on an extension for the browser that will flag up the information in the CSS that will give you the the information if it's an open font then it will allow you to directly get it from the upstream website but I don't believe we need to go into the font embedding this has been tried for ages but it doesn't work I've been involved with the font on the page so I have you know the creative comments extension has something where it parses the information like I said earlier and then on your page this page is under the combination so we have the same for the CSS and it tells you these are fonts that are cold and maybe if fonts are are cold that are non free then there would be curse comments with fonts that are free and then there would be links where you could get it this is the long term thing but I think that would be the issue very much where you have to go