 Thank you. We're back again and it's still Wednesday and it's still the 12th and this is still centered government operations and sorry we're a little late here. People we got really tied up. Well, I did in talking about our code of ethics bill and anyway, we won't go there now but I think that the way I would like to do this is to have this had we're talking about pensions here just so that people out there realize what we're talking about. And I think that this has been a a really, for me a really interesting and process and and I I thought that because we were very clear when we set up this task force that we wanted to make sure that the that the three state unions or the three unions that were impacted here were part of the part of the task force and so at some point I am hoping that we have the as many of the task force members that can actually join us but knowing that they have their state jobs and their teaching jobs. What I thought we would do today is just hear from the the three union representatives who had their members with us on the task force to just talk a little bit about what they saw as the the process and the how it worked and so if they saw issues with it or whatever just reflect on the process and where we are and how they feel about it so I believe everybody you probably know all of us so I don't think we'll take time to introduce ourselves. So with that does do any of the three of you have time constraints and need to get out of here first? Okay seeing none I'm going to start with Mike. So Mike. Thank you senator I don't know if I ever get to go first I appreciate that. You don't usually that's why you do today. Welcome back everybody it's good to see you it's been a long time since the last session and after the work the task force did it seemed even longer it was a very long process but to start I want to thank you for the work you did last session to create this task force. There was a very emotional response as you remember to the proposals last year that came out of the Treasurer's office and then ultimately the house on some of the retirement issues we were facing and our members really felt that it was important to have a voice in this process and the legislation you passed ensured that that happened so we are very appreciative of that. Without that there would have never been buy in to what was ultimately made for a recommendation by the task force. So I really do appreciate that the work you did really made a difference on that end. With what went on with the task force. It was not an easy process. Everybody was emotional coming into this especially from our side because there's so much at stake. This is people's futures and it was very important to them that they felt like all of our members were heard all of the issues were considered. We all understood what got us to where we are whether there were mistakes that were made in investments or managing the system before we could make recommendations on what our members were willing to do. We need to make sure we looked at all of the issues and fully understood that and the task force did exactly that. So the process worked as it was intended. Senator White you saying during your committee meetings last year that you understood that the committee didn't have a tie breaking vote, but you thought at the end, regardless you'd get to the right point because we always do and you were correct. You know that that was an effective way of doing it. Both sides felt heard, and I think we're walking away with an agreement that our members are comfortable with. We have met with our members with VSE a last night we had a membership meeting on zoom and the feedback was positive. You know that there were questions there were concerns, but I didn't hear any objections to the recommendations that were made. And it's been the same with the response I'm getting directly from our members. Yeah, there is of course concern they want to make sure they understand what the recommendations mean. There has been support overall I haven't heard any objections to what was done. So I'm very happy in how the process went and confident that we can support this as an organization going forward. So I want to thank you again. Thank you. And thanks to your member was great on there Dan Trottier who's a trooper. He was very valuable member, as were all of them. So, thanks. Thanks Mike. I'm going to, I won't tell you what Mike called me. I'm going to go to Jeff. Thank you and I'm joined today by Colin Robinson are good. He's here. He's. But so, first off for the record Jeff Fannin for my name a executive director thank you for having me and and and Colin here. We are. It's been a long process as Mike alluded to. We started more than a year ago on this journey, and it was a journey and thank you for the passage of of act 75 to allow the task force to come into being to allow all voices to be heard. There were public meetings as you know Senator white. There were, there was a lot of input. And we just so you know the process we had at Vermont as we, we wrapped our three task force members Molly Kate and Andrew, I say that so quickly Molly Kate and Andrew. They seem as if one person right there, they became one to us. Molly Kate Andrew. But Molly Stoner, Kate McCann and Andrew Emrich were the three task force members from from Monday and they were wonderful people. They knew some of them before but they all get to know each other and they got to know you all. I will say this in a call we had the last night they all thank you to a call of the larger group of Vermont and a folks explaining that the, the, the package. And thank you for your hard work knowing that legislators they had a whole new appreciation for the time and commitment all legislators put in. It was really eye opening for them in that regard, but as to the, so they thank you for that and they share that with our members more broadly. And I will say that the process was healthy cathartic in a way. And we got to a place where I think they understood the challenges the system faced that they wanted to preserve it. And that there were certain things they were able to do and certain things they didn't think they could do. And we wrap them around with other members to counsel them to guide them to set to be a sounding board. So that in real time they can understand things that you were discussing or the task force was discussing whether they would, they would be acceptable to a larger membership. It was perfect. It was designed to give them the support they needed to advance their work on the task force and I think it worked. So not only did the task force work as a group the legislative task force but our, our group was able to do its work to support them and, and therefore the ultimate work of the task force. So, we're pleased that the process played out as it did. We worked, you know, and made sure that we kept each other informed all all the task force members the VCA folks, the troopers and you, the lines of communication were open and that was good. So I think we got to a place where not perfect. But we didn't let perfect be the enemy of the good. And I think that's where we are today. And I want to thank you all here for starting that good work in the Senate. Last year just seems like decades ago at this point but Colin, what did I miss or anything like that. No, I would just say, you know, I think that the ultimate package that was voted on by Senator white and the other members of the task force is really impactful. I think we, we believe that the package that is being presented to this to this committee going forward is going to have a positive long term impacts on our pension system to make sure that there's a secure retirement for teachers for decades to come and ensuring up their health benefits as well. While making sure that it is is fair and equitable for everybody. So, it was a it was a process that that ultimately worked and there was a lot of a lot of hard work and a lot of time that went into this ultimate process and this ultimate package that is going to be before this committee. Thank you. Anthony, did you have a question. You're muted. Sorry about that. Don't take this the wrong way but I have to ask this question because I've heard from some people who said on Facebook there's like 1000 people who signed up on a page, you know, teachers and staff who are not happy with what what happened. I'm just wondering, you know, you, what's my response to them. That question makes sense. It certainly there are a lot of voices out there there's no question about it and some some. We heard from some of those throughout and more recently and and we acknowledge that. You know, there are some out there that would have no changes made but we worry, we want to ensure that the teacher retirement system is healthy and vibrant today and as well as tomorrow and well into the future. So, we think now was an was the best moment in time to, to, to reach this package to come to agreement and I think, again, it's not everything I wanted to say that. But I'm sure the same could be sent for Senator white here on the call. And, and, and, but as Colin pointed out, it is what the best thing we could come up with today. We think it's important to move forward as a as a single unit. And we could all pick it apart but the problem is if you start you peel one thread it's all going to come undone and I don't think that's advisable at this point. So the folks who are there and they're there, there are several there's no question about it. They required some hard work, and several little people acknowledged that Molly Kate Andrew did that hard work. And this is what they are recommending their their colleagues. So I think that's really important. I think the folks that I heard from. Go back to what you said I think they would they wanted nothing to change. You know they they would said you know contract is a pension it's a contract and you shouldn't be able to change it. Which is sort of an easy, you know it's an easy thing to say but obviously in the situation where it was impossible to like not change anything. The one thing I would say senators is perhaps, you know, the notion Molly Kate Andrew or members their teachers in the system. They were from Andrew from the matter of Valley came in cans from you 32 and Molly Stoners from down in Brattleboro. They had a cross section of years of service. Teaching in middle school elementary school and high school. They represented well, the membership at large. And this is what they're recommending so their colleagues sat down for set what seven months or wait is about seven, eight months, and really worked and dug into the numbers and the details and this is what they recommend. At the end of the day so I think the hard work was done by the members who are think this is the right right way to go. If I can just add one thing that I think when we first started there were a lot of people, including people on the task force who, who simply did not understand the dire straits that we were in that we are in. And that felt that we really didn't need to do much, just a little tinkering maybe, and through the hard work of those eight months of the, the union representatives on there, understanding where we are and I mean there was a ton of stuff presented to them and so their deep understanding of where we are and what we had to do is reflective of the package that came forth and a lot of people out there. Most people out there were not privy to all of that information and have not read everything that's on the website because that would be take them two months but to read it but so anyway I just wanted to throw that out that they. They came to this conclusion because of their deep understanding of where we were. I just will say that and. Okay, con. I didn't want my question to be to mean to present the idea that I'm unhappy. Yeah, just trying to get your response to your response that your voice is pretty similar to what I would voice myself. And Senator, Senator Plena would also say, right, I think you all know and we all know and, and I think everybody now this is a complicated issue, right, and that's what you were just speaking to Senator white, and we recognize that we have a lot of education that is going to be continuous, right, as it relates to the substance of this as it impacts specific individuals as it shores up the pension system going forward. And the other thing is I think, obviously, you are all aware of this from hearing from your constituencies, you know our schools, and our school staff and specifically teachers is a really challenging incredibly difficult time in our schools right now. And so, you know this conversation came at a really really really challenging time and this year quite frankly is probably the hardest of the three years. I just wanted to sort of voice and state what's perhaps an obvious point as it relates to this issue in this particular moment. Sure. Thank you. Steve. Thank you Senator. I think what I would say is, you know, I'm not aware of a page with 1000 people on it but if you think about it there. There's close to 20,000 members of all three unions. You're bound to have some percentage of that group of those folks in a Democratic Union, not agreeing with the final outcome. Just like you wouldn't in your communities when you pass a bill and 52% of the bill of your constituents supported and 48 don't. That's just the nature of democracy. But I think what I would say is that one of the major lessons that I hope is learned from this process is something that we say often at VSE a labor movement is nothing about us without us. And that really was the key to the legislation that the Senate put forward and the House eventually adopted. If you really want to know how to solve the problems facing state government, going to the frontline workers, the teachers, the troopers, the state employees, and including them in the discussion and including them in the process will get you to the result you're looking for. And imposing things on high doesn't usually work out successfully. And so the Senate really set that process up to be an inclusive one to be a Democratic one to be one where people felt they had equal power at the table. And that's, that's the backbone of labor. I think I also like to say that Senator white that was a an outstanding co chair who had many times held the whole thing together. And I really appreciate that and I know our members do there are many times when we all just wanted to throw it up throw up our hands and walk away. But we were able to talk to Senator white and work our way through the problem and I want to say that we really appreciate that. And also, I think this proposal, the basic premise of this proposal for the state employees is that our members did not want to have to work longer for a less secure retirement. And I think if you look at the outcome of this process that included Leona Watt, who is a senior probation officer in Springfield, well respected across state government for her work there. And Eric Davis, who, you know, is a retirement mathematical whiz. And is the vice chair of the retirement, the retirement board. They were able to work together to craft a proposal that you know it's not 100% harmless there are going to be some people who are going to have to put more money out of their paycheck into the pension system, because normal costs of the system are increasing. And we have to do our share. But one thing that's really was really important principle for us with in the end it turned out to be something we could achieve is that the increased contributions in among state employees is a progressive progressive contribution increase. So the dietary aid at the veterans home who I constantly talked about last year, making 12 bucks an hour, you know, she's not going to have to pay more money out of her pocket, but those making you know more than $75,000 a year will have to pay a little bit more because there's a there's a fairness there. But the real principle that we really wanted to achieve which was was one of equality between the employer and the employee. The employees under our agreement will contribute $15,000 more $15 million more annually in contributions, and the state of Vermont will contribute $15 million more in contributions. So, in, in money above the the ADEC. So that principle of equality was achieved. That was really important. I do want to just. There's two more things I just want to say one is where there is some unfinished business. We have according to the agreement till April 15 to put together a plan for what we call group G, which would be a plan to bring Vermont into a lot to alliance with the other New England states, and provide our correctional nurses at the psychiatric care hospital, a 20 year retirement in age 55 with the only state in New England that does not do that. This, this cannot. This has to get done. This absolutely has to get done. Our systems in those two places of employment are spinning out of control and on the verge of collapse, because of the lack of staff. We've got to get that done and, and I appreciate that the commission that the task force has given us the time to work with treasure appears to get that proposal together to make sure it doesn't adversely affect the pension system. And to make sure that we can, we can get that into the final agreement that the correctional officers and the nurses are counting on us to do that. And I also would like to thank the somebody who I in VSE we affectionately know, affectionately called the state lady. And that is the way in which Senator Kitchell was introduced to many homes when she was a correct when she was a social worker, perhaps a member of the VSE a. She just did an outstanding job, helping us understand the budget implications and all of the fiscal information that we really needed in order to make this work. So we were grateful to Senator white for holding this together and making sure we didn't lose our minds. And we're also very grateful to Senator Kitchell for lending her expertise to the process and helping us understand the budget, the budget consequences that was a really important part of the process and we very much appreciate it so. So I think on that point I'll just, I will arrest my case but really just say thank you, thank you, thank you for setting up a process that included people and for, and for giving us a chance to highlight the great work of our members Leona and Eric. Thank you. So, I think that we got a little into a little more detail there than I had thought. So, I was going to have Chris talk about Chris or Becky talk about and I don't know what your timeline is here Becky I know that you have some constraints on your time. And so what I'm going to suggest perhaps is that I was going to have you talk about group G we don't need to do that anymore because I think Steve has talked about group G unless people have questions about. So, maybe, maybe what we'll do is we don't have time, I think today to go through the three. Wait, wait one second Sandra Clarkson, we don't have time today to go through the three, the three per packages, which is what I had hoped we would be able to do. So, I think that what we'll do is put off going through the, the packages. Until next week. And maybe we can just I see I think that Senator Clarkson maybe had another question about group G. And then I just want to make sure that everybody knows there is a public hearing on Tuesday night. I sent that out to everybody so I hope that you all are notifying your members, because that's the only time we could do it. And we promised that there would be another public hearing after the after we had the packages completed and people can see them, the proposals on the website. And I'm sure I'm sure you've sent them out to everybody so anyway. So, Senator Clarkson I you, the group G is a potentially new group group C, our state law enforcement group F in the system are the, all the other state employees. So C workers are really stressed and have very jobs that are more similar probably to law enforcement than to the standard group F employee. So, they wanted to have a special group set up for a new group for the, where the benefits and the contributions are closer more akin to group C than to group F. And when the actuarial reports came back they came back suggesting that it would cost about between 30 and 35% of the employees salary that certainly isn't going to happen that's not going to help recruitment in any case so we have given them until April 15, as Steve said, to come up with a package, a plan that will be cost neutral to the system, but that will meet their needs. And if that if so if they come up with that it'll be plopped into the, to the bill whenever wherever the bill is on April 15, or whenever they come up with it. Does that answer your question. Okay. I am aware that it's almost 430 and I, I do know that people have other things what committee what is your pleasure here should we just wait and dive into this next week. I want to start diving in now, we won't get very far and we won't have many questions. Yes, Senator columnar. Thank you manager I think we have an on the agenda for Friday to don't we. Yes, oh Friday Friday yes I think I was thinking this was Friday but yes you're right we do have it on for Friday and that was the plan was then to get more deeply into it. Senator Clarkson Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We talked about a summary sheet, and I looked on the pension on your committee's Web page and Becky I assume that the final report that is up is the final report but we don't have a kind of a I know you have an executive summary there that, but do we have a summary sheet that we can send out to constituents. Because is Chris working on that or Chris and Becky working on that and then might we expect things I guess one of my questions. I'll answer that because he did prepare something. Sure. For the record Christopher joint fiscal. There are there is a summary sheet it's not one page it goes on to several pages on the joint fiscal office website. If you go to subjects and go under pensions and state debt, you'll see it there you'll also see the slides that I prepared for today which really kind of walks you through in a very summary level all the elements of the the recommendations with the fiscal estimates that we have right now. There was a lot of wordsmithing happening right up through the weekend up to the task force meeting and through the task force meeting, getting the report done and as soon as that was agreed to we immediately pivoted to putting some fiscal summary sheets together but the time constraints between nailing down the wording of the final recommendations and the end of the final task force meeting didn't allow us to finish all of it to put directly in the report but there is a companion document. Great, and I would just for like, nor for most of the public, who aren't going to necessarily go to jfo could we also post it on the pensions web page. Because that's where people will go to look for that kind of thing. And maybe we could have both the report Gail maybe we could have both the report and the summary work that Chris just mentioned on our reports and resources for us to easily access and the public to easily access. I see madam chair nodding her head, and she was one of the co chairs of the pension task force. So if she's good with it I'm happy to do that. Thank you. I would be a little hesitant to send too much out to constituents at this point, until we really understand what it is because even the three page summary is. And I do know that the VSEA the VTA and the NEA are sending out to their members, their own summary sheets and, and the packages that were proposed by them and were accepted by the task force. So I would just or just to be a little bit cautious that we don't send stuff out that in fact might not accurately reflect. We can send out where they can see it, but I would, I'm not sure that we, I anyway, would not find feel comfortable sending out particular information to constituents, except where to find it. But the packages are very complicated. They're, they're, they're very complicated, each package and there are three different packages here. So, so are you saying to us that may that we should rely that maybe for people who are in touch we could say that your, your union will be sending you out the package summary. I mean, should we have them pivot in in their request to like if it's a VSEA member or a VNA member. We can ask them, we can tell them to do that we can also tell them to go to the website and look at the reports and look at the package but, but I just would be careful about sending out that we might decide is a summary that's shorter than the three page summary and the three. So that's, that's my only caution because I don't want. We don't want false information to get out there or information that's incomplete or that talks about. Colin said, it, this is a very, very complex and issue and that the solutions are very complex. So, that's, that's my, that's my suggestion committee members can you can do whatever you want of course, but it's, I just don't want information to get out there that isn't accurate or complete. So, heavens, we have no interest in getting incorrect information out. I just want to make it easier for our for everybody in Vermont for to access it so that's why I requested christen, you know to have this all, at least on your website and ours. So we put the report and the, the summary sheets on our website that would be, that would be helpful and we can direct people there and then I'm, and I have no doubt at all that the VSE and the NEA and the VTA are not sending things out to their members. So, Colin said they have a, or maybe it was Jeff they have a lot of education to do for their members. Got it. So, All right, so I do apologize Becky and Chris for making you do all the that work and your, your slides are always valuable Chris but now you don't have to do it for Friday. Well, Madam Chair, this is not the first committee that I had to present slides for so it was good to have them in the hopper ready to go we're going to have lots of hearings on this as we go and if if I may just real quick before we before we adjourn. One of the sort of key takeaways about this, these recommendations that that I think is beneficial not only to legislators to understand but to all the members who might be watching right now is that this does involve this proposal does involve reinvesting a lot of sort of ADAC savings from from changes to pensions back into long term retirement obligations. So there's commitments of the state to make additional contributions. There's a recommendation that the state make a $200 million one time contribution to the pension systems and ongoing ADAC plus payments. And the thing that I think is most interesting about that where the end result is, is it provides a path forward to prefunding the two bills. So that that really secures retirement health care benefits for people long term, and combined this package would reduce the state's long term unfunded retirement liabilities by two billion with a B dollars. So that is very significant. But I don't remember who it was it said a million here a million there and it suddenly adds up. I think it was somebody at the federal level but I don't remember who it was. So, anything else that anybody wants to tell us today. It can you be with us on Friday, Chris, Becky. Okay, I will. Jeff and Steve and Mike and Colin you're certainly welcome to join us again on Friday. We'll make sure you have an invite so that if there are particular questions about the packages. You can help answer them. I'm going to send an invite to the six union members, if they want to join us I. I know they have jobs and school. So we'll just see if any of them want to join us to answer any questions that we might have about the, the proposals that they came up with and Okay. All of you because all of you have been so involved in this all summer and fall we really applaud you and we're so grateful. Well, it cannot we cannot say thank you enough I think it would not have happened I can tell you without the great work of Chris and. I think everybody on everybody everybody but but the real the real takeaway here is that people work together and yeah, and people checked their political issues at the door, and their personal interests and, and it, it made a difference and it, it worked because of that. So, I don't check magic one thing. Maybe. If I know you'll agree with this it really wouldn't have worked without the help of Gail. Oh yeah, I wouldn't have known where to go when to be there. What to read. So I really want I want to thank Gail for all. Yes. Thank you Gail. Thank you Steve and everyone. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Our experience with that has led me to the decision that we don't want to use the live transcripts, because the things came by very odd. For example when we talked about Cola. At one point it came across as enola gay. When Mike P check was talking about something that came across as bathroom design. You know, it's got a lot of wishful thinking in the transcription. Yes. Okay. Thank you.