 Yeah, cool. Thanks, Michelle. Hey, maybe just as context just because I think this is the first one we're doing here. Some history. Josh Hannah and myself and then the last year and then this year Chris, Matt and myself put together first day physical road trip to the Bay Area and then this year with shelter in place a virtual road trip to the Bay Area and it was just a great experience. It was a really neat way of investor fellows like myself in the Bay Area to connect and try and add value to New Zealand based entrepreneurs and investors and and through the process was able to meet some really cool companies and really cool entrepreneurs and and so with the, with the advent of shelter in place with the use of zoom, we're like well, why do this, you know, you know, two big day sessions once a year, let's try and do this more frequently and thereby try to increase the connectivity between investor fellows and probably entrepreneur fellows over time, and the New Zealand community. So, Michelle and I came up with this idea of a monthly, essentially interview series. And so the idea is for one fellow to interview another fellow so I'm going to interview Chris today, just so that you get to know Chris in a little bit more detail and probably go for like 20 30 minutes and I think we've prepared questions and then open it up to to your questions from the group. So, maybe before we kick it off if we can do this super quick just so just to be fair to Chris and so he understands the audience and who all is is is logged in here and gets a sense of how to how to address the audience. If we could go around really quickly I think there's roughly 20 ish folks who are down then. If you could just really quickly say like, Hey, I'm from, I'm from Auckland as example, I run a small early stage company x. And then you can just go through really quickly so Chris has a sense of maybe some perspectives you all might be interested in so Mike if you could kick it off. Just make it really quick. I'm just conscious was that many people in there this will take over 20 minutes. Yeah, maybe a half minute each, or maybe less if we could just go just barrel through like you might kick it off. Hey guys, Mike Hanna from NZTE Investment Angel Investor from Auckland as well. Hey, Kyle Webster I think you're next. Hi, I'm Kyle. I'm a Wellington based founder. And I run a small company called Lipmaps that builds search and navigation software for scientific literature. Roland. Hi, I'm Roland Soler day job is general manager of Tycho electronics in Christchurch, New Zealand, and vocational job is with aerospace Christchurch where we're looking to set up a aerospace hub. Brooke, I think you're next. Hi, I'm Brooke Bonner. I am in Bellevue, Idaho, hoping to move to New Zealand very soon. And I currently work with an organization called Impact Finance Center where we do philanthropist and investor education to connect their values and their dollars. Cool. Sean, I think you're next. Sean McGrill, I'm from Boston Mass. I'm a recovering entrepreneur and currently an angel investor focused in on female lead businesses. Cool. Adele if I if I have that right. Hey guys, I am Adele. I run a little technical agency in Auckland. We focus on e-commerce but to identify gaps while providing services on a couple of SaaS products around payments and clouds and integration. Cool. In that, Matt Thompson. Got a title Max Thompson from Callahan Innovation. I work with our startup programs across New Zealand. Nelson. Hello everyone. I'm connected from Chile from America. I had a company that we provide the financial solution for small companies. Cool. Aaron, I think you're next. Aaron, Paul and Scott, I think we're pretty close to just trying to get through this. Aaron, I'm an entrepreneur and angel investor focused on like B2B SaaS. Hey Paul, I think you're on mute. As always. Paul Spence from Christchurch. Currently a mentor and program support at ThinkLab, the incubator attached to Canavera University. Very cool. Scott. Scott Cabot. I'm in the Bay Area. I'm a former consumer CMO who's running an advisory business 621 consulting that helps startups with marketing and go to market needs. Cool. Mark. I'm based also in the Bay Area just north of San Francisco. I'm launching an early stage fund to invest in New Zealand startups that are coming to the US market. Awesome. Hey Ed. How's it going? Hey Dave. I'm Ed Baker live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Ran international growth at Facebook and then started the growth team at Uber and now do angel investing. Cool. Christy. Christy, sorry. Hi, I'm Christy Reynolds. I'm an angel investor. I sit on the board of the Ice Angels and I'm really passionate and working on how we can provide access to patient capital for export growth focused SMEs. So that's me. Cool. Annie. My name is Annie. As you know, I'm co-founder of a number of four purpose businesses based in Auckland. And we're really a coach governance and executive leadership and also convene movements of change to reduce inequities for Māori and Pasifika people in Aotearoa. Cool. Yuri. I was a biotech entrepreneur, then I was a visiting partner on my combinator. And most recently, I'm a biotech founder again. Cardace bioscience is making oral antivirals for things like COVID. I think town of coronavirus. Very cool. Neil, I think we might have some folks that have stepped away. Maybe Anita is next. Good morning everybody. I'm from Auckland. I'm coming from the corporate world originally and I'm independent now as well as an investor and part of the puddles team. Cool. All right, I think that's everybody that's on video. So I appreciate it. I know that that took some time, but my hope is part of this is it's hopefully a conduit for you all to meet each other. Perhaps that's a way of flagging people that you want to connect with offline. All right, with that, maybe we can get into Chris. So I think the goal of this Chris is to talk through your interest as an investor, kind of your worldview, and maybe how you connect to New Zealand. But before we get into that, it'd be awesome just to hear about you as a person. So, you know, ready to grow up, tell us about your family, tell us about Chris kind of before you became an investor. This is like the half of my career that I usually skim over, or don't talk about it all. So I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon, grew up there and then ended up moving to the Chicago area I went to school at Northwestern. First, I guess, job out of school was actually selling enterprise IT solutions to a lot of early stage corporates and folks that I found in Fast Company at the time. I think it was right around the time that Fast Company started publishing its magazines and so I use their hot lists as a way to kind of sell into hot startups and ended up connecting with a lot of companies that have then gone on to do some amazing things. But that was kind of my first foray, I guess, into Silicon Valley and more tech focused innovation. I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs, so I was always kind of thinking about different ways to start businesses and things like that. But this was kind of the first foray into some of what was going on in the tech side. Yeah. And what specifically got into VC like was there, was there an experience, was there a relationship or like how did you, how did you get into this job that isn't quite a job. So, I'm an accidental venture capitalist. So, this is more of this part of the story that I'm usually comfortable with. I'm a long time operator, first time fund manager so depending on how far back you go, I started a couple companies sold one for enough to cover a pizza and I think our AWS expenses. And then somehow ended up as first employee and CEO at a company building and launching small satellites, so literally Chewbacca satellites, CubeSats, and saw that from zero to space in 12 months with three satellites and then 65 over the following two and a half years. I personally got to start every part of the business from booking rockets with SpaceX and Rocket Labs and Roscosmos and Jix and all the others to traveling the world with an RF test kit to figure out where we drop our ground stations. I got some unique stories about TSA equivalent stops in various countries when you're carrying around the RF test kit with you. And then left that spent a couple years as a drop in COO a couple different frontier ventures everything from autonomous vehicles to robotics to more space to some computer vision platforms. And then spent a year at Costa Noah Ventures out of the Bay Area as an EIR where I thought it would be a forcing function to start my next company. And so, and behold, my wife and I found out we were expecting our first child decided no better time to move to a more crowded populated city so we moved to New York. And then when I got to New York, I kind of found that the type of fund I would want to work with at the earliest stages didn't really exist here. And so I started a typical to be the kind of fun that I would want to actually work with. So that's kind of the genesis. I decided to create your own fund rather than coach going to fund. Tell me a little bit about that that's a little. Yeah, so. So, I bet a number of the funds in and around New York and then obviously had a lot of connections to bear a funds. And so in the process, I kind of saw that the market was shifting up so funds were getting larger the stage that they were tending to invest in was getting a little bit later and or the round sizes were getting larger. And I felt like there was a bit of a gap at the early stages almost like institutionalizing angel investing, which I done some of but I didn't have a ton of capital so I still would you consider network rich and liquidity poor. Small checks and I figured that there's no better way to kind of get additional leverage than to start a fund where I could actually pool capital together and give people access to some of those truly early stage innovations where, at least in the deep tech side you tend to see your largest accrual of value going into the seed round and then going into kind of like series C. So, those are tend to be the biggest bumps in valuation that you see. So, being an angel investor in those deals can be very lucrative if you pick the right deals. And so for me it was kind of a question of what's on market, and what do I think the right opportunity is. And so I had a lot of entrepreneurs kind of reaching out looking for access to capital access to advice, and it just kind of happened, I suppose. And the name of the fund is atypical and you've talked a little bit about you've given some some hooks into what things you look for in terms of deep tech and in stage but but maybe flesh that out a little bit so just so people understand your context and your view. Yeah, yeah, so I tend to, there are a couple different ways I describe it depending on the audience I've thrown out plausible science fiction. So if you come across something that looks like plausible science fiction think atypical. So in reality, what I end up doing is I end up investing in high EQ engineers that are building primitives or foundational technologies. So I look for folks that are pre product market fit have some technical innovation in hand, and are looking for almost a thought partner to help them work through that process of customer development market discovery and getting to product market fit, and then connect as a bit of a gateway leverage around operations and how you actually get to scale and then obviously downstream investors and connecting with the right folks that like to back moonshots once they have a little bit of the proof points around customers and market. So we're engaging and I think this might be useful to both startups and other investors but just just to understand your thinking that where you're engaging is really a bet on the team. It tends to be investors tend to be team investors or market investors and sometimes a combination of the two but it sounds like it's mainly team. Yeah, actually, so I'm prepping for my first LP meeting tomorrow so I've been thinking about this a lot. And in my mind and kind of the frame for a typical founder technology fit is the new product market fit. For me, it's finding the right technical founder with the right kind of set of what I classify as high Q so balance of IQ EQ and a Q IQ being just raw technical ability is this person want to talk 100 people in the world to solve this particular challenge. It's finding their ability to work with others and also take critical feedback, because at the end of the day, you're not an expert in everything no matter how smart you think you are. So being able to kind of work with your investors and partner with me in a way is impactful. You can use a couple things of the proxy to evaluate EQ so looking at how a founder actually talks to their potential customers or does some of the market discovery I love to put a founder on to a phone call with a potential customer of the innovation and see how they pitch it. How they kind of convey that story and then how they respond to feedback or questions or so forth. And then a Q is essentially rocker it. So can this person take adversity. All the punches that come along with being a founder and then come out the other side stronger. Really, I'm looking for people that just can't quit. They can't turn it off. Yeah. Hey, Chris let's let's let's spend a little time on each of those because I think it's just as a as an investor and like as a person of the craft it's always helpful to understand how other people look at these things and then I think as as many particularly early stage startups you got to merchandise these three things somehow maybe not to you but another investor and so one of the tells. Yeah, so first talk about your product founder fit. It'd be different if this was, you know, pick your mainstream tech field I mean you're going after frontier stuff. And so how do you how do you validate frontier credits. Maybe, maybe this is an obvious question but it strikes me that you're kind of going into some some uncharted waters here. Yeah, so part of it. This is honestly where part of it comes down to relying on my LP group. So my LP base, I'm a small fund. So about $10 million focused on pre seed so my check sizes are relatively small. The LP base is relatively diverse. The LPs as well are made up of a mafia of more entrepreneurs and operators themselves. So, to some extent I dive into the technology myself and then I bring in the right technical experts from within my LP base or within my network to assisting actually validating the technical chops of a particular founder. So that's part of it. The other part of it is looking at the EQ fit or the EQ combination of that because it's very easy as a technical subject matter expert, you know, I'm sure we will talk to PhDs and certain points that are over indexed on IQ to the detriment of their ability to work with others or their kind of take hits and keep on going. And I've experienced this specifically at the satellite company that I ran so there are big focuses on kind of this right balance of IQ EQ and passion. And that's really where a lot of this came from it came from interviewing literally thousands of engineers to try and define kind of the right characteristics for the type of people that would bring on board to the company. We're talking to more and more founders I kind of found that, at least when you're talking about technical expertise you can kind of look at that balance spectrum and use a rubric of sorts to evaluate the technical chops is almost more it's easier to define or scope to some extent the EQ and the personal balance is a little bit harder. And that's where a lot of kind of this experience having interviewed so many engineers and having built out kind of that rubric of sorts actually helps. So for me it becomes more of a sifting challenge and actually kind of sifting through the deals and opportunities that come my way to look for that piece of it, almost more than just is this technically interesting and compelling. Yeah, and just to be fair Chris you shared your rubric and it's not a conceptual rubric it's a spreadsheet. Well, that's a spreadsheet of questions that's not a question. But maybe share kind of without giving up your secret sauce, you know, maybe three of the, particularly the AQ and the EQ was just really tough to do that, particularly in a sheltered place world and talk a little bit more about how you vet those two elements. Yeah. Honestly, the AQ and EQ this is probably where you hear venture talked about a lot as part science part art, this is a little more, I guess, art in the sense that it takes a lot of process or having had, you know, thousands of interviews to talk to founders to potentially get to a place where you can kind of suss out where they fall in the spectrum. And then to some extent in the back of my head I'm always balancing where a particular founder falls on a spectrum of what I consider the average of all engineering talent that I've interviewed in the entirety of my career and trying to on balance look at kind of where they sit in that spectrum. And for EQ, again, one of the good proxies that I found is putting them on the phone with potential customer. So seeing how they interact with other people other than yourself, how they tell the story in a different light to a different type of customer because fundamentally at the end of the day what we're talking about is your ability to serve your customers as a founder. Everyone is your customer, whether it's your investor, your actual customers, your team, your co founders, you are always trying to serve someone. And so to some extent the more people that you can kind of suss out how they serve that particular customer the better so if you can get two founders sitting down together have a conversation with them. You can suss out some of the interpersonal dynamics there. If you can put them on the phone with a customer you can suss out a little bit more about how they will actually serve their product how they will work through kind of the iteration process of product development because having a technical innovation isn't a product so much as it is a piece of technology that then needs to be packaged into something that serves a particular need, or putting them in front of another investor. I have a good suggestion today actually of someone who is another emerging manager in their process they go through actually getting onto a conference call with a number of emerging managers and having the founder pitch them at one time. That way they get kind of the balanced view of having other people with varying perspectives and insights asking questions of the founder at the same time the founder gets to short circuit their overall fundraising cycle. And at the end of the day you get to make a more informed decision based on how downstream funding may play in as a potential risk or non risk. And then the AQ piece of it is really, to some extent you need to look at how many times the founder has failed. I really like to delve into their past history of failures and or accomplishments. And that the way in which they talk about those which is informative as well, specifically to the EQ piece of it so are they taking ownership and responsibility for the failures that they've had or are they passing those off to things that are external to their own locus of control. Yeah, I think particularly you know in this context of EHF I think that the thing I really like about some of your heuristics are a lot of them can be done across borders they can be done digitally. There are some specific credentialing that are more community based right like probably product founder fit and a little bit of the referencing on the AQ. That is a segue. What's your experience been like in terms of investing across borders and specifically investing in the New Zealand community. So far, it's been pretty plug and play so I haven't had, well, there are a couple things going on here one I think that as a first time fund manager and a small fund. I don't have the same kind of ingrained processes or just process that you would have with a larger or later stage fund. So my willingness to kind of break bounds and try new things has always been there. Yeah, I started the fund about a year ago so it hasn't been that long that I've been operating with out COVID let alone with COVID. So being able to hop on a zoom call and just have a conversation with somebody hasn't really been a detriment at all. I think the more interesting thing perhaps is the loss of serendipity. So I think specifically more on like the top of funnel thinking about deal flow and opportunity you lose out on some of that access to just what's happening when you're at a meet up with someone or a number of people who have varying perspectives, odd jobs or whatever the case may be and things will just pop up. For me it's in part being on conversations like this where certain things come from but honestly that's probably the biggest detriment whereas the ability to find opportunities has been strong for whatever reason. It seems like everybody is fundraising, including folks who have been sitting at home and realize that now is the best time to start a new company. Not only people who had companies before but then also people who just are ready for a change. So that's been relatively easy. It's the conversion is relatively easy getting from kind of an initial conversation to then more technical diligence and diving in with the rest of the team and potential references. And then even getting into conversion. I mean, I'd say it's what q2. Well funny enough q1 I did no deals. And it wasn't because of coven. It was just I didn't see anything compelling that felt like it was priced appropriately and had kind of the right conviction around the opportunity with founder technology fit q2 I did four deals. And then all of a sudden q2 came back and full lockdown ended up doing four deals including one that was an incubation with a former colleague of mine, and then q3 come back I did one deal. So it's kind of this on balance it kind of measured out over time but you definitely see these peaks and valleys. And I don't know that it's coven specific so much as it's just perhaps opportunity or. I'll stop. Yeah, no it's me ask you a question and I think it's a good time to open it up actually because I think this topic is probably relevant to both the entrepreneurs and the investors in the group. As you think about that serum deputy in the top of funnel being shut down because of input lack of in person events and call us. How are you thinking about supplementing it digitally right part of it's these, these zoom calls and are there other other other ways and that that entrepreneurs can access to to get on your, get on your radar and investors right or generically. Yes, I mean for me specifically I have two things that I'm thinking about right now. You know people have strong opinions one or the other. I'd love to hear those because these are ideas in my head that I'm talking about with maybe two people. One is given that I'm the tip of the spear for a lot of deep tech things and a lot of the investments that I make her into technical innovations. There's inherently a lot of connection to universities and governments and different institutions. So one thought has been to create almost a Midas list of researchers and put that out as a way to look at university laboratories and otherwise where there's great innovation happening. And new companies being spun out so it's not just innovation in a vacuum but it's true innovation that's getting up to the world. And I think that that could be one potential avenue to open the funnel a little bit and then at the same point kind of create something that has value for others as well as value back to a typical and drawing and potential founders. And then the second is just as a product of my past life selling enterprise it solutions. I love cold emails. I love when people send me a really good cold email I really hate it when people send me a really bad cold email and I will tell them when it's a bad cold email. So I have a post queued up for a blog just talking about cold emailing, frankly, I think that it's underappreciated art and when we think about kind of getting outside of the box and specifically outside of kind of the I already know so looking for innovators and places that you wouldn't normally look. They don't always have access to the same investors and opportunities that some folks in their New York or Auckland even have. So I'm planning to put something out on cold emailing me and specifically looking for people outside of kind of the normal spaces. Let's take a moment. Are there any questions from the group. You guys can just weigh in just unmute and jump in. Chris great to hear your story and your journey. And I see that you're from one of the very early cohort to. I'm an investor in level two. Are you aware of level two here in New Zealand and, and which is effectively the birthplace of Lanza tech, and also some really deep tech. Businesses like Avetana, Mint, innovation, doctoral and these businesses are all repurposing things like waste or in the case of doctoral. It's around reducing sound noise to do with, you know, those flying objects that are ultimately going to deliver parcels and my point here is that I think we've got that there's another innovation called KiwiNet, which is commercializing or helping to commercialize research out of the universities. And I just think it would be really great to get you, you know, more integrated into some of the deep tech type work that is being done here in New Zealand, because there might be some synergies whereby you have an area of expertise when you know people that might be able to add value. I wonder how well are we doing that as an EHF cohort to try and create those, you know, those relationships and those connections. I mean, for one, I think that'd be great to get more closely connected to those I'm connected to the right now ice house and a couple other groups through. Even like Peter at Rocket Labs. I think we were their first customer on their test flight. So I have some connection there and that's kind of netted some opportunities. But yeah, anything to get more connected into the New Zealand ecosystem and specifically some of the research institutions and otherwise would be fantastic. You're you're about to ask something, but Yeah, just so I'm just like your comment, which I found interesting on the cold outreach. That goes two ways, you know, taking off my nerve and on my way see her for a second. There's some of the companies that we enjoyed working with the most in my group's world with the ones that actually we reached out to that we called cold them. I got to read an article in science or and get down the street. Wow. I really like what you guys are doing. And the the labs or the people that were in the Midas list, as you put it, the top innovative labs are actually some of the worst responders. Whereas when you reach out and this, this speaks a little bit to the New Zealand ecosystem, but also parts of America and other parts of the world as well. You reach out to somebody in the Midwest, they reach out to somebody in a place that's not Oxford in the UK. You say I really enjoyed your paper and you thought about turning this into a company. And that's had a pretty high success rate them for in the buy focus on biotech. And so for me, I'm curious in the space and engineering how that's gone, you've done that as well. I have so my second largest source of deal flows outbound. Thank you, I read I triple E and fizz.org and a number of other publications and have actively invested in companies that I have myself cold outreach to, in order to get that initial conversation going. I completely agree with you too I think that the quality of quality of the company and the opportunity is not by. It's usually oftentimes inversely correlated with one's ability to market themselves. And so I found a number of opportunities that are quite compelling and interesting, where the founders don't have the immediate ability to market themselves, which is part of the value that I then want to bring back to that company. So if they have the right balance of IQ and EQ, and can learn so they're effectively learning machines. It's easier to get them on board with the idea that they can effectively pitch something. And to run them through enough practice sessions that they get to a place where suddenly they are an all star pitcher, as opposed to just, you know, an all star technology. I would say just because it's not just pitching is its own kind of treat, but fundamentally, it doesn't correlate directly with the quality of the atomic metrics of the company itself. I would say that I would extend that even to later stage which is most investors are idea people. So, even if you're based outside the hubs, even if you don't have any overlapping networks to reference you ideas travel incredibly well. And it's a big matching problem. And so it's all discoverable. It's all discoverable in terms of investors that are interested in your field. And it's, it's, it's not impossible to, regardless of what your background is where you're based to, to get your get into the idea flow and, and, yeah, I would say that I track this once over a three year period I want to say I looked at 170 companies I invested in two, and the two companies were specific companies that I chased. Right. And so I think, I think that's a common theme across and so just as a, just extend the point with a great point that hearing me. It's also actually just extending on that for one second. It's also interesting how how much technical innovation has lost the chasm because of referencing. I think referencing is another important characteristic here, where, if you have something that's truly innovative and unique. You then take it to an investor who was David mentioned is an idea person, they will then go to their network, their network is ingrained in another way of thinking that is almost immediately biased against whatever it is you're doing. So unless you can short circuit that referencing process by bringing people to the fray who understand what it is you're doing, why it's different, why it's better, why it's important and they need to fund it. You're almost at a disadvantage from a get go because that investor has to rely on their own network to kind of help to vet what it is you're doing. Can you expect. Yeah, good, please, please. Can you expand on that because that's true at both ends of the spectrum at both of the very innovative things. And if you're doing something which is very hot. Right, so the signal to noise and one person I can recognize this signal or noise in the other space. I mean, the things that are very hot they tend to be very hot because people focus on social proof and the social proof tends to pop up in places that have to do with who's using something not necessarily why they're using something. I think the kind of clarification here that I'm trying to make is more on if you have something that's truly innovative piece of technology, you need to find technical experts who understand the technical nuance of what it is you're doing, and can explain that nuance to investors who themselves then need to turn around and explain it to their partnership. So unless you can break it down into terms that makes sense for not only the one investor the partner that you're talking to but also that partner to then sell it to the rest of the partnership. You're at a disadvantage. So in a couple cases I suggest to my founders that they identify either potential customers within the portfolio of that investor that they want to talk to get those folks on board with using this as a potential product because that circuits a referencing process, or to identify technical experts in the field that they can provide as a upfront reference sheet that look and feel like third party independent folks as opposed to people that are maybe working at your company right now, and would just kind of spout the same things that you are said provide some clarity there. No. Let me be broad at the point. It's specific to this this community which is the more the more personal interactions over a long period of time I think helped to get people would help and that may not be useful from an early stage context but I think the more common touch points, you come back and you do what you say you're going to do builds conviction over time and so for us. Again when I look back at the data that the average, the company the average company I've invested in I've known for three years prior to investing. It doesn't do wonder for early stage companies but then when you want to scale. I think there is a, there is a huge value to engaging on a regular basis doesn't have to be frequent and there's a credibility that is created. And so historical results don't the protective future results but they but they should have built a lot of confidence and so, as you think about it right I would, I think a first secure initial money. You know, keep the lights on but then as you think about pick, you know, 234 investors that are in your field that are one stage down to start building up a peer level relationship. That you're not asking it from for anything other than sharing your view of the world in the market in the business wall and you know, you start building credibility over time. What else can can we ask Chris given that in many ways you know he is the, if you're an early stage on for he's the target right he's wants to invest in New Zealand. I think it's a big risk on great founders and really interesting markets. Yeah, I've got one for Chris. Chris, have you in the light of the current environment where travel is, you know, pretty hard to do. Have you or would you invest in companies without actually physically meeting the founders and the team, are you doing it all virtually. Yep, have done it. I'm seeing q4 invested into company in the UK that I've never met personally, or physically I should say we've had a number of zoom conversations. I did the same thing in q3 with a company in Idaho. I've talked to actually a couple of companies in New Zealand throughout the lockdown. Right to you. Well, Chris, I was going to ask you about your anti portfolio but it sounds like it's been a year or so in. And so it's, it's, it's hard to know what the anti portfolio is. Yeah, but maybe take, let's take it, maybe we can end on a, on a different note which is like what's the craziest idea or craziest entrepreneur invested in just giving it sounds like you're on the, on the frontier. The funny thing too is I definitely have an anti portfolio. In my case, most of it relates back to when I was deploying time instead of capital. So I spent time with intercom when they were five people and worked with Owen and Dez very early on for kind of customer market development. I spent a little bit of time talking to Stripe early on. I think that at that point they were still like $100 million company or something like that. And then ended up putting my wife to work at Instacart. So I needed the three founders there personally for quite some time. Those are all random though I think the closest one to kind of the portfolio would be Stripe, just in terms of what they're doing and kind of the idea of primitives. Craziest idea I've invested in so far it kind of depends on your definition of crazy. The craziest technological thing that I've invested in is a nuclear reactor focused on radio isotopes for medical imaging and medical purposes. That was in Q3. So that's recent. I mean I invested into a biotech company that focuses on programmable chemistry and biology so they create effectively temporary tattoos that changes your health does. Very cool. Awesome. All right well with that. Thank you. Thanks for everybody joining and Chris, thanks for being generous with your thoughts and your time and and your stories so I really appreciate it. And the thing I want to get in touch with Chris, he can put his email address there in the chat. And you can also search for the fellows and best of fellows on the website, theechf.org under the fellows directory there. And if any of you and best of fellows want to be mixed up in February or March or April May for a conversation with the New Zealand ecosystem, just ping me and we'll get it sorted. And maybe come with your person that you want to be the interviewer. Great. Or I can match you up. Thanks everyone.