 Select word meeting for Monday or we can't hear you one of the two Yes, yes, we can No, we did not Okay, thank you Andrew, I think you've got the next agenda item Editions or changes for tonight That does none from staff Or members no, all right you got off easy Andrew, okay moving on to the next agenda item Public to be heard. This is the time for the public to Address items that are not on the agenda I'm gonna start with hands in the room any comments from Participants in the room I'll start over here with Betsy. Can you come up to the microphone, please? Andy Watts Yes While Betsy's coming up to the microphone Can can we ask folks that are online to shut off their cameras if they're not speaking so that? Those of us participating as board members remotely can have enough screen space to see the others Thank you Also, if you are at home, please turn off your mic as well Thank you Hey, Betsy state your name and that's he done I live in the town center and This is about our swimming pool. I This summer my my children might show my child and her my grandchild came to visit and I went down to our town pool before they got here to see what the facility was like for The little one and it's really there's no pool it is just a flat slab of concrete with these things that dribble water down on the kids and notably, there was no children there were no children under there and If they are small they wear a Life vest and they're in the water and their parent is holding them This is not good I so I said, okay, I'll go down to the Maple Street and there for my daughter my granddaughter and I to go in it's $19 and if I I did go twice there and it was $38 that we spend for two visits and That pool has a Graduated depth for kids It's only like a over their toes and goes to like two feet where they can go in and they can actually do it on Their own and be independent and no one has to hold them and I think this this is bad for the center because we have multitude of families who've got little kids and They're not able to enjoy it in the water the way it promotes learning to like the water and When I spoke to Cole who was the manager of the pool. He said really we this this facility is really for the older child because that's who gets to use it in the way that we expect a swimming pool to be used and I think we do a disservice to all the families who have young children that they have to go over to the town pool the Village pool or go to the lake which are not bad choices it's just that we should be able to have that for our children and our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren and I Cole said that the last time it was updated was in 1979 and Although they did at some point take away the small pool the waiting pool that they had Which was less usage and I I think we need to look at that I know that we're not allowed to do any bonding But we need to look at what what we offer to our families there And the other part about that park at Sand Hill is the slides are all a dark green and if there is sun shining on those dark green surfaces it is not tolerable to slide down them if you're in shorts for the kids and so that's a problem and I know that we just updated all that all that all that equipment But it's a problem because it's so dark and the kids can't use it unless it's dark outside or it's you know Not dark, but just cloudy So I think we need to pay a little attention to that The second thing I want to say is that We have a trails commission a trail committee that includes the conservation committee that used to be a commission which is a totally different ball of wax because they have more power over what they do a commission than does a committee and We have holes in Trails committee three of them now and People aren't working on the conservation. I think they need to be separated again. So the commission can actually do its work So I would like us to look at that as an agenda item in the future Or how we manage that because I don't think that we're being Not the word fair is not the word I want But it's just it's not it's we're not being able to focus on what a conservation group should be because there's work to do On the trails committee cleaning the trails marking the trails making sure the trail is you know safe And it's got all the pieces to it. So I think we need to think about that. Thank you very much. Thank you Betsy Mary post Essex Center, thank you very much for letting me speak I'm asking tonight that the select board start to pay attention to some of the major issues of The town outside the village that have not been addressed for years I had hoped that when merger failed again this time the select board would finally recognize that they have a Responsibility to the rest of the town citizens not just those who are also part of the municipality of Essex Junction Specifically tonight, I am asking that you stop negotiating with the trustees and pay attention To one huge problem that has been put before you time and time again I was taken aback when Patty Davis made a plea to you to recognize the dangerous situation at Saxon Hill When she said that walkers and joggers are in danger due to no signage Especially with hunting coming up and the walkers and joggers not knowing where hunting is allowed. I was quite upset about that We've already had one shooting victim. Dr. John Rice Killed by a stray shot through the window in his home while eating lunch and caring for his ill wife People were upset and wanted action to prevent this sort of thing happening again Many people express fear of having the same happen to them I've heard that home shooting ranges are a well-loved Vermont entertainment and So far no leadership of any rural towns that I know of including Essex Has had the courage to address this beyond the gathering where we speak to the wall and then are told. Thank you No action follows Now with hunting season coming up again I noticed that Evan said he would try to look into it But I'm afraid that all this attention demanded by the trustees is going to take precedence again We who are not part of the village are tired of being treated like an on-love stepchild Signage is not a big thing and I think that safety should become a priority a higher priority than supposed separation Secondly, I'd like to express my in credulity at the madness that has overtaken both the select board and the trustees meeting after meeting after meeting you don't have a life and I've lost my place here. You don't have a life and while you're giving up your life Most of you most of what you're supposed to be doing is not getting done There's something very very wrong with this picture. Who do you think you're serving? All of this activity also means that staff has to give up their lives, too They need to work overtime and have greater expectations put upon them It affects citizens also in order to participate in the business of our municipalities We are forced to go to these same meetings So I would hope for all of our sakes that this craziness can finally end. Thank you. Thanks, Mary Thank you for letting me speak my name is Paula Sargent and I am a former member of the Essex senior center And I'm speaking I have addressed the board of trustees several times But never the select board although we did send a concerned seniors memo to all of you July 15th asking you to help us Reopen the Essex senior center We have not had any advance in that process whatsoever and I wanted to update you on that We two weeks ago We heard at a meeting a bridge meeting that There would be three options available for the seniors for the senior center to reopen And that we would hear about these options at a meeting This thursday Then the next week we heard that An option had been picked And that they would be having at this meeting on thursday talking about what the seniors would do to staff and the and create volunteers at the senior center That that the senior center was basically going to be run by volunteers And that a note would be sent out It was invitations were being sent out to all the seniors that had been participating in the senior center It was in the mail So today monday, we have not received the invitation to come to the meeting Or that there will be a meeting And we still don't know in writing what the three options were for the opening of the senior center And what we can do to support it I've talked to Eight seniors today and they're very confused They're very disappointed And I I think I just want to bring it to your attention that this is a very chaotic situation Seniors need consistency. They need leadership just like everyone else in the village They they need time to make arrangements so they can go to these meetings so they can arrange a calendar And none of that's happened. And this is since five weeks ago We started saying we're here to support you. We want to see the senior center open again and um So I just hope that you can help us to see that this happens And that the seniors can have their space back again so that even if they just have a safe place to go In the town of the village so that they can meet together. This is I've said before is populations of 50 and older That's a significant part of the sx population that was using the senior center and enjoying it. Thank you. Thank you We got a the there's a opening party for the senior center the friday before labor day I think that's the third thanks. I didn't memorize if it was the second so it's the third We are opening it and yes, the senior center will be we're trying to bring it back To where it was several years ago where it was volunteer led We have we have some issues with busing. We have not been able to staff our senior vans. We have two of them But as many local businesses can attest It is hard to get people to come back to work and do certain things So we are still down a couple drivers But the other thing is our senior center needs to be of able-bodied seniors It is not intended to be adult care And so what we want is back to people taking care of their own activities Scheduling their activities and we will make sure that you know the activities that are scheduled for that time get Happened etc. Etc that the vans run smoothly, but the center opens Uh friday august 3rd and there is a Sorry, september 3rd, and I believe there's some type of um Cake and some other things that will be available that day, but thank you for bringing up the issue All right. Thank you Any other any other comments from the room? And if you'd like I can address the signage issue that was brought up, please please We do not have signage in the town of s6 for reasons of What is a shooting zone and what is not a shooting zone? We have been over this topic many times including All of the summer before Covid occurred We do not put up signs telling people where shooting occurs and where it doesn't because bullets don't respect signage We have no idea how far a bullet will go if it ricochets or if it does something else So to put up a sign in any park saying this is a safe zone We don't know that because a bullet if I remember correctly could go well over half a mile And so if we put signs at sexon hill Um or something like that then we gonna put them at indian brook. Are we gonna put them? Uh on every road that goes through the town We have not had a chance to fully discuss this with our parks and rec department or our public works But in general those town does not put up signage of such of such Safety etc. And so that is that is That is why we don't you don't see signs throughout the town telling people that they're in a non-shooting zone So Do you have uh this put on the agenda for some time soon where the whole community can take part in this to see How the community feels about no signage because there are other ways to do things You could at least put up a sign saying that there will be hunting allowed in this park Thank you Okay, moving on to online online comments, uh harland smith. They see your hand up Yeah, andy young I I would like to speak to something that Is written on the agenda, but it's technically not on the agenda at the moment and that would be executive sessions um I I brought this up saturday and and uh In the meetings that we just had um when you were looking for voices from the town and my concern is uh Transparency um and accurate information and evan gave a Pretty decent detail as to why executive executive sessions are important um But I don't believe that All negotiations need to be behind executive sessions and and going forward with the communications between the trustees and The select board it would be nice to hear Before an executive session decision is made On what everybody's feelings is whether they should go into them or not um, or maybe even a public to be heard on Maybe questions about the executive session or whether they feel What communications I know it's a complicated area, but I really feel like some of the problems that we have with trying to get the information out to the public Um is accuracy and and a trust level and transparency so I would As a resident, I would highly recommend that we have as many conversations in the open So that we know what all trustees and all select board members Are asking for questions and their thought process In the process of us trying to negotiate with each other So I just wanted to bring that up. Thank you. All right. Thanks. Arlen Okay, let's see I see andy champagne's hand andy Can you hear me? Yes, we can Yeah, I'd like to see sacks and I'd like to see signs up at sacks and hill also You have a 24 million dollar budget. Just do it Can't imagine the hunting grounds up at sacks and hill is all that great right hunting in Essex isn't safe We're too populated the town manager just doesn't want to make a phone call and would rather give us lip service Select board you better force them to do it and we'll start voting you out. This isn't hard All right. Thanks. Andy Davis Eddie Davis you muted. Did you want to speak? Yes, I'd like to speak. Um, I would like to know um why the um rec department Has duties for signage When the conservation and trails committee has been asking for help with signage So, you know people it's like andy just said it's so populated You just management should be looking at the town of waterbury, which has 7 000 residents They have signs from their parking lot to their park sacks and hill is a park Like it or not people come from all over and you're looking for a lawsuit It is by statute Highway statute 19 304 a that states it is up to the town select board To ensure that the safety of the public using public class one two or three class highway Is safe that is your duty Just like the the roads where the apple trees are orchard road or whatever it is in Essex that has those apple trees There is a Paper sign that says 200 foot buffer zone I am willing to join the conservation and trails committee And I would ask that you allow the rec department to give some of the duties to the conservation and trails committee because because the rec department's too caught up in Giving us a pool for our young children or at least putting things on the agenda that this community needs the 11 500 of us and and Maybe we need new management. Maybe we need a new manager someone like a manager like the town of Weightsfield that has a smaller population than just town outside the village and they have signs. Thank you expatting Any other comments? okay, uh, then let's move on to a business item 5a update and discussion on the housing commission Andrew, I think we've got this one Katie Ah, Katie Hi everybody Um, I'm Gabrielle Ritesmith. I'm the vice chair of the Essex housing commission Katie our chair could not be with you tonight And um, so I'm here instead Um, so I just thought I'd take a couple of minutes up front And give a little bit of background. Um, very briefly about the commission Uh, we were formed last year. We're a joint commission between the two municipalities Um, we held our first meeting in october of last year. We're a seven member commission with recently one open seat The mission of the joint Essex and Essex housing commission is to help ensure that any resident or aspiring resident of Essex Has access to a home that is affordable Generally no more than 30 percent of household income is spent on housing and I realize Could not be a more challenging time for that for more and more people. Unfortunately It's a desirable type in size for their household and Also very challenging these days Is located with easy access to basic needs via walking biking or public transit Is of sufficient quality to ensure the health safety and enjoyment of its residents Meets housings Meets resident special needs including senior care, ADA accessibility Recovery housing and housing for people who are homeless and is made available Regardless of race religion sex sexual orientation gender identity age national origin pregnancy disability or status of citizenship family and military service In keeping with our mission, we focused on three particular topics since we started meeting Our current focus has been on inclusionary zoning A housing trust fund and landlord or rental surveys Housing trust funds are distinct funds established by city county or state governments that receive ongoing Dedicated sources of public funding to support the preservation and production of affordable housing And increase opportunities for families and individuals to access decent affordable homes We hope to have a proposal for a possible housing trust fund here in Essex in the next two months We will first discuss at a full housing commission meeting early this fall with the intention of bringing a recommendation to both boards later in the fall Inclusionary zoning refers to municipal planning ordinances that require a given chair of new construction to be affordable By people with low to moderate incomes We have a dedicated work group for inclusionary zoning And we will continue to research and prepare to be a part of this conversation In collaboration with the planning boards and staff in the next steps related to inclusionary zoning in Essex Finally rental or landlord surveys We had hoped to see state movement on a rental registry, but that did not pass this year at the state legislature This has been a tricky topic for us as it could be a huge asset to our community But likely a lot of work Especially in the beginning to gather the data on landlords and rental units. There is no readily accessible data source for that in our municipalities Winooski has seen success with their rental registry and landlord outreach and serves as a great resource if we pursue some kind of engagement with our landlords And also we've had outreach and contact with cvoeo If we wanted to change our focus if the boards decided we may want to shift to An engagement strategy with landlords through surveys or other more informal data collection rather than a more formal survey That would be comprehensive So upcoming our next priority is outreach and community engagement We're currently looking at how to be more visible in the community and among the other municipal boards and committees whose work affects housing We will update our webpage on sx.org to include more resources and information to support providers of housing and those seeking housing We will create opportunities for the community to do community to engage with us around housing and other needs related to living in Essex um So That's just a really brief overview of what we've been doing and what we will be doing and then just a Couple more things for you to consider one is Like all of you our housing commission has been talking briefly about the possibility of separation And we are currently a joint commission We currently have four members who live in the village and the town and two who live in the town We are all pledged to serve the mission of the commission to serve both Municipalities and we would hope that that remains unchanged even in the event of separation We are wondering and hoping if our commission might still be a joint municipal group Or if the possible future city of sx junction would need to create their own housing commission that we would still collaborate closely together And finally we have just two requests for you all to consider um One is that we're requesting a change to our charter to allow for our official forum for business to increase from three to four members This will allow more effective teaming in our work groups, which is how we get the majority of um progress done on those three priorities If possible, we ask that this be voted on or decided this evening We currently have no budget other than the support of municipal staff, which is very much appreciated We are requesting a small amount of funding for outreach and communications We don't have a specific number for you this evening, but we would anticipate a small request for items such as food for community events Possibly a consultant for a survey creating and printing flyers that type of item We'll be working with staff to propose a budget for your consideration during the upcoming budget session Thank you Go ahead Evan Uh pass for a clarification. Did you say you're you're asking for a charter change? For your quorum? Yeah the commission from three to four I'm a little confused if you only have six members We have well, we're a seven member board, but yes, but if having three Then you're not in a bind. So you actually want the fourth So that a that three people can't meet and have a meeting Say that one more time So if your quorum is three Yes You can have a meeting if three people come of the six that are currently there and the seven That you're entitled to as I hear what your question is So this is actually not about our full housing commission meeting that we are seeking to have a higher threshold set it's for our work group meetings. So for work group Yes, because if three of us in a work group if three of us can't meet in a work group Without it being a quorum and having to warn a formal public meeting Not that we object to warning formal public meetings It's just a whole another level of work And we are simply trying to to get some work done and move things forward to bring forward to our full commission meeting Okay. Yep. That's the that's the Impetus behind the request over I understand that better now. Thanks. Yeah Gabrielle, thank you for for joining us tonight and giving that That update and sorry. I didn't know you were there. I guess that's one of the downsides to To being virtual not being in the room. So didn't get to see you. I'm here for the table It's great to hear how much is going on within the housing commission and and personally I think you'll those three topics that you discussed for your your subcommittees are perfect Those are some of the main issues that I was hoping that the commission would work on So I'm I'm personally very thrilled to hear that that's where you're coming from One thing I just wanted to quickly address with the the housing trust fund In tonight's meeting. We're going to be talking a little bit about Our budget goals from the joint board perspective But your time frame I think is going to align well As our our budget days are going to be in early november this year So having some of that information available for that meeting would be very beneficial and it would align well good Other than that I don't have any other questions and the only people I can see From my camera angle right now are those who are virtual So if Town meeting TV would have turned the camera over to the rest of the board while George goes ahead That would be helpless. Again. I don't know if anyone has any hands up in the room But George we can't hear you Or at least I can't hear you can't hear you over here. He's something with his headset. Yeah Can't hear you at all George George showing you as being on mute We want to go to someone else and come back to George Are there is there anyone in the room who had it? Okay, Andy Yeah, thanks for your presentation Gabrielle. I'm I'm still confused on the quorum on on maybe we don't need to resolve it here But I'd like to understand better what you're trying to accomplish there, right? So um, the committee the the housing commission is doing a fair amount of our work in three working groups around those three topics we And we can only work in teams of two Because otherwise we would need to be we'd be at a quorum. Are you all are very familiar with this issue, right? so It really is just trying to increase our functionality and getting more work done It's been slowing us down to try and stay in pairs like that and not being able to get We're really lucky that we have staff who's been supporting us and I'm joining us in those meetings, but we're finding serving as a duo in those work groups. It's just been Yeah, it's been slowing our work down And so we we tried to help you by by giving specifically giving you a smaller quorum in the charger So you could have meetings with fewer people. Is that well, I don't know Is that what we did but then we I don't know we hurt you. I don't know Yeah Usually if you've got a quorum is for a quorum of four is fine for us because we we have seven members and we've never been below four Um, we're generally at five to seven so I'm confused where the Three numbers coming from them if it's if it's that is our quorum When we hit three we're at quorum Typically a seven member board four is quorum regardless. It's it's great. Let's do that. That's what we're asking for sounds great I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out where that three number. I don't know. It's what's in our charters So it's in the charter then you have to follow it. So exactly that's why we've come to you I think we were trying to make it easier for you to have a meeting by Allowing you to have a meeting when only three people were present Because of the difficulty of getting people together and yeah, that seems we've proven not to be a difficulty constrained you instead of helped you Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. I understand that. Good. Um, my my other question, um, and maybe it's related to some of these topics is the the The um housing needs assessment that was done Shortly before the commission was formed within a year or two before that. Um There was a a comment in there that um, a large percentage of Essex renters were not that were were not receiving A rental assistance, although they were They qualified for it And so I'm wondering if that's something that the commission has looked at at all is how to educate folks that aren't getting the Assistance they need on their rent You know, you know, is there a way that they can get that? um, unless I'm miss under miss reading that that statement in the It was you know, it was one of those statements that was pulled out in the block by itself and said I forgot what the number was some percentage of eligible renters are not getting assistance that that they Are eligible for Um, it's it's been we it's come up in our meeting I would not say it's something we have in in the in the depth of that report that we have focused on but I will take it back to the commission Yeah, thank you. Thank you George, we want to try that again Can you hear me? Can hear you perfectly fine. All right. All right. We switch microphones. Um Everyone, thanks for coming. I'm just curious if you had if your commission had anything to do with the Approval the vhf a approval for the uh depot junction building that's going up here on maple street Uh at five corners. Um, they just got approval for I are you familiar with what i'm talking about? No, not off hand Okay, um I should say i'm familiar with The building you're talking about and i'm familiar with vhf a but i i i guess i need you to finish talking about All right. So I wasn't sure if you knew about this. So they they were approved for um to Provide assistance for every anyone any renters who have less than 60 percent of median income Um, and they have seven units that are going to be set aside for people who are I threatened with homelessness. I didn't know if I wasn't sure if you you guys had Had participated in setting that up or Or I'm aware and know what we weren't involved in So that yeah, okay. I think we just got briefed on that by uh by staff at our last housing commission meeting All right. Okay. Thank you Are there any other questions from board members including those in the room? Evan's raising his hand Just go ahead Evan one quick question Gabriel. Do you have a sense of what the area's total need? The deficit of the need of the housing is Wow, uh, I would say that in the time of the report to which Andy was referring and now Um, I can't even begin to fathom what I know it. It's horrifying. I mean, I think we all know it's thousands of units It's yeah, we are I mean vermont is we talked about this a little bit at our last meeting and one of the many aha moments I had was thinking about how this is sort of um You know, it's an it's an overlapping of different factors coming to play and one of them is that vermont um for all of our beauty and you know and open spaces Is a very low development state and that just has accrued over time um and uh So we're now seeing that there is just no there's just such a low amount of possible inventory for the demand that we're seeing um, so what i'm learning about and also hearing about Just from living in the community Is you have pressures coming from from all sides at this point and it's we're driving the level of what is affordable continues to rise and um in my own neighborhood where I just I mean countryside neighborhood You can't it's hard to find a home in there for under $400,000. You know, this is um It's a real crisis that then push puts pressure on our rental incomes and now people are commuting farther So I haven't I have heard nothing specific about the the numbers although I think there's something called the ACS anybody else familiar with that concept out there? What is that same for Greg? Thank you American Something survey and that comes out much more frequently than the census and there are some numbers in there that are also um That you can look at to more to more the county level and more the community level and see but I think it's it's not hard to to imagine how much More difficult it is in our community for people to To find housing to get into the housing market to find a rental unit one of the things we have been talking about in the commission is accessory dwelling units or ad use and those are where um people who have um A single family home at another unit on um and given how many people are struggling with Staying in their own homes or you know as they their children get older or their home is aging That may be another small inroad Into increasing the number of units available in our community and we have talked about how the housing commission and um could possibly support that um to education awareness around that and well um I think we'll be talking about that Additionally, we'll bring some more information forward to you, but certainly I think we can all appreciate um Just what a difficult situation Essex is that people who want to live and work in Essex And anywhere in this it's not just chitin county in vermont anymore This is all over the whole region in the nation. So Yeah, I think there's the acs is where I would certainly refer people who want to see more detailed numbers Beyond the report that andy's referring to So we've been thinking about big and small ways, you know, there's Trying to find that balance between how we invest the time of our commission and fulfill the priorities given to us by the boards And also make some small inroads and opportunities for the community to think about how to address some of these really severe housing shortages that people Any income bracket are experiencing these days Thanks, Evan Go ahead, tracy um I I heard you define affordability as no more than 30 of a household income By one metric. Yeah, that's the metric that was given to us in our mission Okay, is there another metric that you've talked about for instance Tying it to a certain percentage of the median income in vermont, which would give you it wouldn't change from household to household It would come out to be a certain number and then you can compare that against You know medium housing costs medium rent rental cost in in asex Is there been any discussion Is using that as a metric And no, we haven't talked about changing our charter to to reflect the mission to change the mission that was given to us by the Boards by that what I read to you is the definition that was given to us by the boards um, we've talked with A lot of different providers Champlain housing trusts and others that do use different metrics And so we are aware that there are different metrics out there to qualify what does affordability look like Yeah, so is there I guess I'll take that segue Is there any interest on the commission to adding another metric to the charter? To allow you some flexibility No, we have another conversation, but I'll bring it back to you. Okay. Yeah Thank you George is your hand still up or is that a holdover Holdover. Thanks. Thank you board members anything else So we have that question ahead of us on changing the quorum I did see that on page two of the housing commission's charter There's a paragraph called operations and it states a quorum shall consist of three members And so they are asking our willingness to change that to four Uh as far as I'm concerned if the commission is asking to make it Uh harder for them to have a quorum at their own at their own will it's completely fine by me if that has them to a complex commission Does anybody have anything else you'd like to add to that? Or would we want to just go ahead and Make such a motion To make that change I want to make sure that there's time for both boards in case there's other concerns Andrew quick question. You have the charter right up in front of you Uh when it defines to the metric of no more than 30 percent Of median or household income Would it be possible based on that language to just insert a statement of or other metric as defined by the commission? Uh just to give them some scalability as far as what metric they want to use We can certainly do that if the boards would like to I don't see the harm in it I'll just make a note. Tracy. I pulled this off the website. It does say is affordable in parentheses Generally, you know more than 30 percent of household income is spent on housing, but that doesn't address other metrics. Okay. Yeah Is that Go ahead, rock. Is that something that maybe is more Significant than simply changing the quorum and maybe the commission wants to Discuss or I don't know. Uh, I I can't it doesn't it doesn't sound serious like this, but I just don't Yeah, I hear your roge. Um, I appreciate that. Tracy's suggestion sounds really flexible to me You're not requiring that we consider other metrics or dictating what those metrics are so Again, I appreciate what roge is saying. We may want to you may want to give us time to come back to the full board And certainly without katie here as our chair um But I Given that it's within your purview to change our charter tonight or any other night Maybe it's something we wait until a future meeting, but it's certainly something that is entirely at your discretion so I don't I don't feel strongly against it personally, but i'm just one commissioner So would the boards be okay with just moving forward on changing the quorum size and leaving The data piece for the commission to go ahead discuss and come back to us at another point in time With such a request Sure. Yep. I'm good with that Thank you for the thumbs So there are a couple hands up in the room here in the public. I don't know if you want to take public comment at this point You certainly can um since Andy since I can't see who they are Would you find leading that part in the room and I can take care of it online? Barbara asked for a point of order. So can you come up to the microphone? Please so Be heard not quite sure parliamentarily whether it's a point of order or point of information, but I would suggest to you that you might want to Consult with legal because I wonder if by changing the quorum of this committee that you're you're setting a precedent for uh establishing a different level of quorums to avoid a situation that may be seen as Trying to avoid either A public meeting rule or otherwise. So I would just suggest you might want to look into that. Thank you Thanks, Barbara um Irene you also had your hand up. Did you Okay, okay. Okay, Andrew. So I guess there was just one comment in the room. I do see one hand up online Uh Andy champagne I don't know if that's a new hand or if that's uh from public to be heard. It's a new hand. Okay, go ahead Yeah, I'd like to say something about the this time the housing in this town is out of control and ridiculous We don't even get a taco bell or chipotle All we have is a rundown 200 milliliter five, which is going to close any day now I really don't understand how people can afford $450,000 household or even why they would want one You didn't get a real nice house for that and all of your Rochester, New York and their economy is a lot better too We need to be more like them Thank you I see no other Hands up Yep, marine's alone go ahead. All right. Sorry. Just a quick question. Gabby. Thanks for the presentation Very happy to see this on the agenda. So thank you both boards for allowing the time for that Um, I was just wondering what kind of collaboration Your commission has with the shampoos housing trust Thanks, Lorraine. Sorry mask caught on glasses We don't have any Formal or informal collaboration with the shampoos housing trust, but they've been a wonderful resource for us and they have come and spoken with us to Inform us of what they do and how that might possibly relate to the work of the housing commission Does that answer your question Lorraine? Yeah, it does. I was just thinking in terms of not reinventing the wheel When I heard you mentioned the trust potentially Yeah, so You know So that's kind of why I came up and I had because they do such good work And I know they purchased here in Essex as well And I was just thinking it seemed like a good fit and so I was just wondering If that's something that the shampoos housing trust does is work at that kind of granular level So it's it's similar there. There are also that's an that's a housing trust fund And this would be a housing trust fund. This would be a municipal housing trust fund that we would consider proposing to all of you and recommending Where the municipal funds are used To generally to leverage investment in the community for affordable housing And there are several examples In our state Montpelier has won Charlotte has won We've actually spoken to many of these housing trust funds to get a sense of whether it would be a good fit for Essex So I think that If Essex were to create its own housing trust fund it would be Really potentially a compliment to the work of shampoos housing trust and that there could potentially down the road be some opportunities to leverage that for community development block grant fund monies and in a community shampoos housing situation, but That's all specular living down the road, but it's a municipal housing trust fund is As a similar purpose, but it is distinct from a non-profit housing trust fund like Champlain They do great work though. I'm right with you. I mean, we've been hearing lots of Lots of information from them. It's been great Thank you and good to good to know because I sound if i'm understanding you right because I don't know a lot about how it works is the trust fund, but It sounds to me like if i'm understanding you right often when you get a block grant You have to put in your own funds that kind of what you mean by leveraging. Okay whole example. Yeah Thank you so much Gabby. You're welcome Well, I see no other hands up and just to piggyback on that comment for a moment I did work in that that arena for a couple of years and I can just say that if you look at the south Burlington city center and the new market street The first building or the second building to go up was a low-income about affordable housing development that was utilized They utilize that low-income housing tax credit as well as community development funds through the state as well as south Burlington's housing trust fund money And that has helped to create the the long-term plan for that redevelopment of market street in south Burlington So they can those funds can certainly be very helpful in spurring the kind of development that's Parts of our community have asked for So seeing that there's no other hands two additional hands came up in the in the room here Mary Thank you. This is a question. It's not a statement. I really don't know but I've always wondered When the planning commission meets and they talk about a new housing development that's coming And always it's kind of throwing the word affordable and yet seems to me that lately a lot of the housing Developments that have happened the houses are at least $450,000 a piece before covid raised all the prices so is there anything that a community can do to try to dampen down The things that are being built and the charges that are the the cost that's being charged So that we could could we put in some? Developments that would be affordable You know enforce that somehow on the developers I just don't know Want to answer that? Thank you I wish I wish one of my colleagues Mia Watson was here. She's really knowledgeable about all this. Um, I That is part of what I believe could be accomplished through inclusionary zoning regulations and ordinances that would put restrictions In certain development situations where a developer In order to get permission to build from all of you from the planning commissions would Have to have a certain percentage of units that are affordable By whatever metric you establish in the ordinance We are seeing some of that happen. I think someone earlier mentioned that there is some on maple street There's george did um that there's some affordable units going in there at 60 percent which May may sound really um Like a high percentage. It's a different metric. It's 60 percent of the I'm gonna eat median income. Thank you of the median income. So it's different than 30 percent of your income so it is Mary that's like the question we all ask ourselves at almost every meeting is what can we do? To try to Bring it's it's tempting right any of us. I've sold my house in the past year. It's awfully tempting not to take the highest bidder and It's it's it's amazing what we all can get when we're a seller these days but Everything has a ripple effect and I know that It's It's the same thing that motivates any of us to get the best price we possibly can for our real estate motivates a developer so I think that as a community if we were to prioritize trying to make affordable housing a more Available in our community. We're taking the right steps. You've established the housing commission You've got some great people in our commission some really knowledgeable people about housing. My my curve has been huge I'm not an expert in this field and Just really dedicating ourselves to be a resource for all of you and for the other commission members In our in our municipalities on this topic Thank you all for having me here Is there are there another question? Did you want to Yeah, if I could just add to what Gabrielle said and to respond to Mary The development codes in subdivision regulations zoning regulations also provide density bonuses in a lot of cases so if A developer Promises to include some affordable housing in a project. They can usually build more homes and would be allowed otherwise It doesn't always get taken advantage of but it is a tool and it's something that I believe our planning commissions and Housing commission and community development departments always consider and look at as far as how to make that useful for developers Okay, then Betsy Dunn also had a question Betsy Dunn and this is more of a statement. I'm really thrilled that we had a report from the commission on the housing Today and I know that Andy you had said when you first took over the chair of this Of our select board that you would like to have All of our different committees and commissions that we have for the town Come and do a presentation periodically And that's something that hasn't happened yet. I know we've been in inundated with the separation and what's going on there But I think that it's valuable because then people hear what's going on and they may get excited and want to join a commission or a committee That needs membership And hearing what's happening in the in this town is really important and we have some very very Vibrant committees that we've got going on So I look forward to seeing this and I only realize that you weren't making the agenda And only evan makes the agenda. So maybe evan can Slide those things in more frequently. Thank you Betsy any other hands in the room Rock is all your handles up Yeah, Gabrielle real quick Based on a couple comments that just I think you just made Or is the commission engaging with Another village planning commission as we is looking again at the land development code I want to think they're a little probably a little more than midway through it. I'm guessing I'm trying to get caught up Um, it's pretty dense. I'm not gonna lie. It's hard for me But I didn't know if you all engaging With them at all on this topic and I don't know the process very well So I'm not aware if they finish this round if it has to wait a certain period of time Before it can be revisited Um, I don't just something I thought about what during this the q&a that you all just went through So have you all Met with them at all or We have not met with them at all Uh, and that is part of what is our ambition for the coming year is that you again We just started meeting not you know in october And so it took it took us frankly just a few months to get our feet under us and uh People like me who had a lot of work to do to even begin to be um useful in that conversation and um Diane clements from the village planning commission came to a recent meeting Which was fantastic to have someone firsthand there listening and we we plan to do more of the same to go to their meetings and Learn ourselves. There's a lot. There's a lot to learn So I would say that um I think I think it's in their meeting in september. They're doing a bit even more progress on this So no we have not but I would anticipate in certainly in in you know in the coming I hate to say the coming years But I would say in the coming years that we'll we'll be able to be more collaborative with each other as as the housing commission You know Is has been around long enough to have our own sense of Where we fit into the the larger picture of housing in in asics Great. Thank you. Thank you so seeing Thank you. Gabrielle Seeing no other hands up. Are we ready to go to make that decision on moving to four members for our forum? That's nice. Do you want to check to make sure we're not setting precedents like well The the My view on that is I think by putting a Clause in the charter that said that three Was a quorum one with a Seven-member board. I think that's the exception we've made and we're going back to a more normal situation Where we go to a majority of the board being considered For so I think we're removing and it in my view. I think we're removing an exception rather than creating one I don't know if that that any think I'm Concerned I don't have a concern with it As long as they meet the open meetings act, wouldn't they meet? I think if I'm not mistaken if it's unspoken it falls to roberts rules and roberts rules is 50 Plus one so I I feel comfortable with Sounds like we're okay with it on this side randor with one of the From the trustees if one of the trustees would like to make a motion to change the housing commission's charter So that a quorum shall consist of four members. I would entertain that motion That moves Second. Thank you. George. Thank you. Raj. Is there any further discussion on that motion? Hearing none of those in favor signify by saying aye. Bye Anybody oppose? Thank you. Okay, select board. So anyone make the motion I'll make the motion to update the housing commission's charter so that a quorum is defined as four members Second Thank you. Tracy. Thank you. Don any further discussion? Those in favor, please say aye Aye nay Okay, motion passes four zero Thank you all Thank you. Gabrielle. Thank you. Gabrielle Next on our agenda. We have a discussion and possible action on the tree farm lease So for those of us who are virtual, I'm assuming brad and or alley are walking up to the mic right now Ready to Sure So I think you can see from the memo And the supporting materials the question is whether or not this like board and trustees want to renew The lease agreement and the management agreement and the mo you with the tree farm management group The tree farm management group is a private organization non-profit vermont non-profit organization who has been managing The tree farm parcel which is co-owned by the village and the town And they are Next july will be ending their second 10-year agreement and Ali and I are recommending that That agreement not be renewed for another Set of it amount of time and that instead The municipality control the municipal land and manage it Our intention is not to make any drastic changes for the user groups who have enjoyed this facility The tree farm management group has done a great job of managing it for the past 20 plus years We just think that the the time is different now and that There are two rec departments who are capable of managing the property and it's in the best interests of the citizens to have a property that Not only serves for the pay-to-play sports but also Offers other opportunities whether it be recreational or passive recreation Um that this facility um really has developed almost more into a public park As well as an elite sports facility So i'm not sure if ali was going to add anything or if we're ready to No, um that that covers the the recommendation Um on what we've we've been discussing over the oh for a while Great. Thank you ali. Thank you brad as well um so uh One thing i'm i'd like to make sure gets heard is for those who may be current users whether they are Uh adults whether they are youth whether they are uh the parents for the youth who have Utilized the facility over the years Um, what do what would we say to those individuals in terms of what their experience would be with this type of a With this arrangement? um our our hope is that the arrangement would be Similar to their current experience and their past experience that they've had with the facility and that um rules and ordinances policies all of that would also align with our two departments to support the land over there So those who may be using the facility for uh for soccer or other recreational sports for instance should not be concerned about Next year not being able to utilize those fields for that purpose. Should they No No, not only use it and you know, I think it's really important to honor the historical use in terms of Which groups are utilizing the facility tournaments and those types of things? Fee agreements that some of those groups who have been longtime board members Or had seats on the board, uh, whatever those agreements are. I mean our intention is Is not to change those things And certainly, you know keep all of those things going I think what our intention is is to bring a holistic approach To the parcel So that it's not just, you know Three soccer organizations and one rugby organization that are that are controlling Who gets to use it when? But to to allow the community To to have a say and enjoyment of the facility as well You know, I think having public management So that you know, there have been some issues with dogs and and other Things that have gone on that facility that by having it be publicly managed The members of the community will have the opportunity to come before the boards come before the recreation directors and the manager address those concerns and have them dealt with just like all other matters are dealt with With regards to our public property Thank you. Brad. Thank you Ali George, why don't you go ahead? Yeah, um, Brad and Ali The when the state handed over or transferred ownership of the property to the village in the town Um, were there are there restrictions on use? I know that there's something in there about field sports or something like that But it's certainly not for the entire property. Most of the property isn't even flat. It goes up the side of the hill there Um, but there are there are no restrictions. There's nothing in the covenant that was handed over by the state. Um, That said it's restricted solely to soccer or Rugby or something we we could use it for any number of things. Is that correct? Yeah, there are some restrictions on the property, but it is mainly that it cannot be used for commercial use Yeah, it's educational agricultural and recreational uses and prohibiting development for housing commercial or industrial use Right, but it's generally recreational use, but that's I just want to make sure that it wasn't I know that there was some confusion I've heard over the years because Originally, it was it was it set up exclusively as a soccer facility But that that was not by it by some legal mandate. That was just how things happen That was just a circumstance at the time. Um, but it's not exclusively to be used for soccer and And rumping correct correct And just to add the when the free farm management group Uh began it was a larger group with more representation. It's just um For no other reason but filtering out and and people changing positions and Um, if they're affiliated with the organization anymore or not Um, so I know that the management group has been larger and the bylaws Uh indicate representation from the high school and from residents and things like that. So Um, it just Has gotten smaller over the years Okay, thank you And I would just add to that You know, it's in it's in the materials, but we haven't said it allowed that we are advocating For an advisory board for the property to include, you know, the current membership of the tree farm management group as well as bring in some others Uh, we do still want their input on the property and its use and and the policies and practices around it Um, but just general management to be municipal Go ahead, roge Allie and brad, I think this is great. Thanks for bringing this forward. Um, I support the the plan Um, I think the right times have changed. I think it's great to bring it under the municipal umbrella I'm wondering, um You know field sports if um Down the road we can get some representation on the advisory board from softball little league baseball little league um And one of the hopes I have is that we can Look at this parcel as providing some flexibility. You know, there's a rugby field at the tree farm. There's a rugby field at maple street Um, you know having this facility might be able to move some of that stuff around creating opportunities in the other park You know, things like that. I I think I think that's a great reason To to bring this under under municipal management because it it provides both communities with that flexibility to to really look at the entire inventory of of space and and And see where they can serve we we for instance Baseball and softball families to some fairly large tournaments that would you know, just like lacrosse and soccer tournaments and there's you know for for softball or baseball fields, you know home plate to home plate that would Essentially take up, you know, one and a half soccer fields or two, you know, so I hope down the line that that advisory that advisory board would it would would open up a little bit to the other field sports um And and like I said, you know really take into account All of the facilities we have in the community And and be willing to be open about where those end up But yeah, I think this is a good plan So I'm not seeing hands up from other board members virtually Tracy, I think I see your hand going being raised Yeah, I have a couple of questions. Um, the first is around What would be the financial impact of doing this? What would be the impact on staff? And I'll hold my other questions until after that We've we've heard repeatedly that staffer have so much to do So I just want to make sure that we're walking into this with our eyes wide open I mean the management group has done a great job Felt sustaining the facility at no cost to the taxpayers besides the initial purchase that the town and village went in on um, and you know besides looking at You know, um capital improvements and things like that. We have staff right now Based on our seasonal staff that also come in between the two departments And overseeing them at the facility um, we'll kind of You know station them and not add You know much to the budget and what we have talked about in regards to staffing Um, and I guess my next question is like I see a lot of folks here Um, but my question is are there members of the current tree farm management group board? Um that have input on, you know pain points. What's working? What's not? You know sort of how we got to to this point from a management perspective Yeah, so ali serves on the tree farm management group board as well as harland smith Who is the grounds and facilities director at ejrp? So they ali has been on it for quite a long time. Um, so they're both pretty Pretty involved and attend all of their regular meetings. There are members On the board that are here tonight Virtually are in person. So Yeah, and for me, I would just like to hear from members of the board just to get their input and and feedback rather than Not having that especially um, so that the public can can hear it and be informed Just just so you're aware we typically have discussion with the board the board members first and then we'll we'll go to the public You'll have the opportunity to speak then. Yeah Tracey, did you have other questions? Oh, that's it from Don's got her hand up My question is out. You just said you could do a seasonal staff a seasonal staff like your summer staff leave So you're are you saying you're going to take a seasonal staff person higher up to go over there to work? So there will be that increase Um, that is something that we have talked about is to take one of our um Experience seasonal staff and to have them kind of oversee the facility with you know, a couple others Who would be more seasonal than that initial person? um, again, that would be part of the landscaping maintenance Contract that the tree farm management group already pays toward um in order to to staff that through the end of october early november when the tree farm usually sees the end of its activity And if you look at any budget for that Yeah, we don't expect that there should be any increase this this entire Um facility would live in an enterprise fund and all of the revenues that are generated Are generated through the use and through the rentals will pay for the the maintenance Um for all of the direct costs I think the indirect costs would be the program people who are in the office who would then you know Be responsible for the booking and the management um, but when it comes to Any any of the work that needs to go on over there. It would all be paid for from user fees No, I'm good. We've talked about the tree farm Several times before and you guys have provided great answers. So I do want to hear obviously tracy from members But I think that though we just uh, if we could sort of piggybacking on tracy If when we get to the public if you could identify yourself if you're associated with the tree farm group that way We have an idea because I don't know except for the two pointed out The question question I have is um Our next agenda item is talking about separation discussions and one of the Items in the proposal that we got from the trustees was a proposal for how to to share management of this property and um It it there's some The the the question the concern I have or the question I have is Is there a risk that if we don't come to agreement on how to co-manage this property Could we miss a season or two while we're struggling with trying to figure out how to Get our feet on the ground with this um, and would it be more appropriate to wait Five or six years or something to let the dust settle on separation So that we're not You know sacrificing a season. I'm just you don't have any thoughts on that is a problem I don't have any concerns. No, I mean, I think the proposal is to extend their agreement through november of 2022 Um, so that's obviously 14 months from now Uh, and then their their actual season, you know, doesn't begin until may so that's another six months from them From then but I would think that in the next 14 months Um, the boards have lots of things to sort out that it would seem like, you know Figuring out how to manage a hundred acre parcel could be accomplished Hey, that was my question If you were to see your hand is back up Yeah, I I just prompted I wanted to remember one thing. Um But Ali right now. I mean the basically right now is being run as an enterprise fund I think that's how we would define it in um in our world Um, and do you have a sense of how much revenue? Goes through their your budget. How much what do they usually budget for how much do they usually spend? How much do they take in and spend their meter? Do you have a sense of that? Um, I should have a sense of it since we had a meeting last week Uh I'm gonna look to spend that we're at 100 and Okay, I can share that Half of the finance team is here and share that. Okay They can they can share that they can't When it's his turn they cannot I'm sorry. I didn't understand They will share the information when it's his turn Oh, you can't share it with me now He has better accuracy with all of that In his okay, and I do Okay, the landscape contract is about 85 thousand for the base base landscape and we bring in over 110 130 150,000 150 150 is what the projection is I can't I'm gonna uh, if you don't mind Andrew. I think can I just ask the question since Um, this is municipal property and I'm asking what the budget is But we don't know what the budget is does someone in our In in in the village or the town actually know what the budget is Or is this not approved by us or how does this happen? How do we have a municipal operation? Um, where we don't ever see the budget I'm not somebody to clarify that and I know the person from the tree farm is going to speak but I'm wondering if someone from The staff could answer that question is there no process by which we look at their budget and and improve their budget and know What's actually going on over there? Is there some sort of fiduciary control over what's taking place there? Thank you It's not a municipal operation It's a lease to this tree farm group and they were never required to submit a budget Or another document to us at least But this gentleman and your name is My name is fine off. I'm on the tree farm board is about to Give some information. So Um, I will say I am a new Person on the board two years in I represent s6 united on the tree farm management board I work with ali and harlan who I believe is on on the video, um I will say this year's numbers I don't really have much of a historical perspective in terms of finances, but this year we're projected Well, we were planning on 100 and 10 115 thousand dollars in revenue I think we're on pace to be around 150 155 this year The turnout for field rentals has been really really strong expenses wise, um We just went through a change in land in the company who I guess Manages the power cuts the grass and the fertilizers and all that stuff So we're kind of learning as we go, but we're projected I think for expenses to be right around 110 Um, that's a really rough number Season's not over yet. Um We are hoping to have net income this year. Hopefully put in the bank and reinvest in the property But I will talk later when when I'm ready Thank you for that Were there other board member Comments questions Andy any in the the room from the board members like those select boards I'll set Okay, um, if the board is okay, uh, I know I've heard a couple of questions about Um, the intent and the history I know that we have um members of public who have already raised their hand But we also have a member of the public online Steve Eustis where he was one of the trustees Uh at the time when this first became a uh when the tree farm first became um an entity or a Thing if you will within our community And so I've asked Steve if he'd be willing to to go over the the history. So if you don't mind Steve if you're on now if you could go ahead and go over A bit of how the tree farm came to be and then that'll also transition into public comments Sure, um, thank you, Andrew I recall at the time when I was on the board, uh trustees You know 20 years ago You know the vision for the property 100 acres lots of use passive record recreation And we even at that point in time we didn't have a sidewalk on old coolchester road um to the facility And um, you know, I brought that up with the state at the time and you know now improvements made with the path put in the pay path access out to To a and then down to the high school so that People in the community could go there and and use the property for recreation Not having to drive a car there and obviously It was parking as well, but I'm trying to accommodate both. So Soccer and field sports were certainly on the mind at the time, but we also knew of the trails and the entire property In in the forest and So we're going to talk to that that whole thing and I think You know what I hear red and alley proposing is again not changing Or taking anything that's been going on and stopping it but rather adding to it going back to that original vision and trying to You know make use of the whole property, you know for people So and I have other comments if you'd like me to go, but that was kind of my reflection from when I was on the board of trustees I Steve when it was coming to be What was the plan in terms of the openness of the the tree farm Well that people, you know, it was supposed to be there for for recreation. It was supposed to be available at all times You know during the daytime, you know, you know, certainly not the middle of the night But during the daytime people should be allowed to get there And that's you know, one of the things I wanted to address in my my comments Then go why don't you go ahead and all right? Well, um, I noticed in the in the last couple years The they've locked the facility. So there is no way to During the daytime hours like if I want to go to the tree farm At lunchtime or in the morning before it gets hot. It's locked and I can't get in Uh, so there's no parking and even if you go to autumn pond way, you can see signs no tree farm parking So clearly people have tried to park there as as well in the neighboring neighborhood, so I'm very concerned about that And to me Someone should be maintaining the property so that the public can can enjoy it So that's important to me and then Also, I believe The non-field areas are not being maintained As noted in the various attachments in the in the packet say that they are Supposed to be maintained and some could have you know, people sometimes have different levels of maintenance Um, and and I think we're failing at all of them. Um, the the paths aren't even mowed such that You know, some of the paths deep in the forest you can You know, people can figure them out, but you know, who wants to walk through two foot high um vegetation and worry about ticks and things like that Or you know in the field area like the trails that go along the edge of the field You don't even know where the trail is and um A lot of volunteers Come together I know I spend at least a couple dozen hours a year trying to ready the cross-country trails for the school Invitational that's every labor day weekend and You know, we shouldn't have to do that It's it's in the in the contract that it's supposed to be maintained and not the the rec department's been helpful The school's been helpful um, but the management group is is not doing that that requirement and and things like trails You you need to stay on top of because if you let them go then you start to have Wash issues and the materials will wash away And then it becomes more costly down the road So here we have this wonderful site where teams from all over the state of vermont come to run cross country every labor day and um, and it's again Volunteers who are pulling this together and it shouldn't have to be be that way It should be just maintained and then people can't even enjoy running on the trails until after labor day when they're finally In good shape until until snow falls um, I already talked about the access being an issue um And I I think if I kind of put from my perspective and and I have no problem with field sports and all that. I think it's great. Um, I'm more of a passive recreation person running walking hiking um, but I kind of view this almost as if someone were to look at maple street park And we were contracting out um to Another group to manage the pool and they had oversight of the whole maple street park though But their focus was the pool and all they did was you know They had swim meets and all these great things and the pool was awesome And they didn't worry about any of the courts or the or the baseball fields or anything else and just kind of left it go and um, that's kind of what I feel is going on on this property and so I I really like the vision of the of the alley and brad and the and the rec departments to Really utilize the whole property? Um for the benefit of the entire community and not just players of field sports again. We're not gonna I'm not suggesting the fields sports get excluded at all But um, let's allow all uses of passive recreation I'm kind of like the original vision from 20 years ago So Anyway, those are my comments Thank you, steve So we'll go in a reverse order this time of we'll do teams first And then after everyone on microsoft teams has had the chance and we'll go into the room Um So again, if you're using microsoft teams, please make sure to raise your hand if you want to speak to the board about this item And so going down the list It looks like elite eight soccer league I'm not sure who that actually is But you're first on the list if you could unmute yourself and let us know who you are the floor is yours Uh, thank you. Uh, so yeah elite eight soccer league is Uh an adult men's adult soccer league that I run. My name is mike I live locally here in essence junction. I've been Working with the tree farm management group to rent field space there for about five years now My league represents about 200 200 male adult players I run about 130 to 140 hours From the tree farm to host my games Between may and october Um, I can't really speak to I think his name was steven the last guy who was speaking I can't really comment on his What are you saying about the original vision of the facility? But I've been playing soccer at the tree farm for for 15 16 years now. Um So As a current renter, you know, my big concern is that basically in in brad and alley's opening statements They use the words intention and hope That the structure will remain the same for the current users. Um But intention and hope isn't really Concrete in my opinion So as a person who's been renting field space there and honestly My league the success of my league kind of hinges on the tree farm as a soccer facility Um, I'm just wondering what you're planning on doing to sort of stand by your current renters Will we be grandfathered in? Uh to the amount of hours that we currently have and technically my league is growing I could take more hours to be honest with you. Um Um And as it currently stands just speaking from a scheduling perspective, um, there's definitely a peak season at the tree farm. It's Uh, it's early in the spring and then later in the fall and you it definitely slows down a little bit mid june To mid august like right now There's myself running a league and one other guy who's running a soccer league and uh rugby starts to ramp up a little bit But it gets a little bit slower But my big concern is that if you guys start bringing in baseball across ultimate frisbee Whatever else you're essentially going to be taking time away from soccer organizations Who have pretty much already tapped out the rental hours at the facility And spreading those across multiple sports. So now you're basically taking a soccer facility That actually doesn't even have enough time to to accommodate soccer And then you're going to be kind of divvying up those hours and everybody's you know Baseball is going to get an inadequate number of hours. Soccer will get an inadequate number of hours um And so on down the line. So I don't know if Expanding it to other sports is really the Best plan. Um, some of the other ideas in here are you know, they sound good But there's definitely a current lack of time to support the needs of the soccer community. So Uh big question is what do you guys do and help me out? Because there aren't many other places for me to go if I lose The hours that I currently rent from the facility Thank you, mike Uh next on the list we have andy champagne Can you hear me? So all right. So there's someone just took a note of my concern and that's how it gets dealt with Or do we actually have a question and I just don't know how this process goes. Yeah, sorry about that, mike. Um Generally, yes, if you let us know what your questions concerns are When that concludes If we have answers to those we will address them if we don't we'll say that we we don't have answers to those But this point in time where we're collecting information Okay, great, and you can provide an email address. Maybe I can more formally submit that feedback and question All right, if you ever want, it's not necessary. It's not necessary You're always more than welcome to email any of us on on the trustees. I'm surely select board to feel the same way I know our email addresses are all are all online on our websites sxbt.org and sxjunction.org Um, I'm just not going to take the time right now. Please don't take offense of it By listing out what our email addresses are So andy champagne go right ahead Surprise surprise first it was a memorial hall and now they're after Now it's a tree farm. Of course, it all comes out of left field It's clearly some political act from the town manager director of sx central parks and rec department Almost as bad as Andrew Brown's try find resources that they can grab so they can justify increasing their departments and budgets This way it'll look better when it comes to presenting a big budget to the villagers for separation nice $150,000 budget Of course sx junction parks and rec couldn't manage a parks department to save their lives Even though the director has a 700 thousand dollar budget and a five million Village budget they could tap into they really needed to Maple street park is overcrowded. They use precious parking spots and park into park buses on the weekend So patrons have to park park at 80 ellen watt. They leave equipment out unattended such as a garden hose Broken bleachers in the backfield and now there's violence going on there too. Not surprised Cascade park has graffiti on the green wall by the basketball courts and the bushes behind the basketball fence has taken over the fence Pearl street park has a nine hole disc golf course And neither the town manager director had the time to fire off a simple email to it telling him to update the website Again more graffiti on the back of the basketball back for tons of stumps downward This is really all simple stuff that can be fixed if I Walk through the parks and a phone call of the grounds crew Oh and stevens park given the state of the parkers and one could conclude that they don't even know where it is These areas are cold and cruel Steven's park was donated to the village by the stevens family when someone gives you something you're supposed to take care of it When I was growing up that park had a full play set and it was quite nice to hang out and ride my bike in Today, there's uprooted tree stumps lots of dead trees one that is going to destroy some guy's fence and garden intersales That falls downwood huge soil erosion issues. They don't even care to mow the grass The grass was thigh high when I walked through there in june It took them till july to finally mow. There's houses on nicholas court worth half a million bucks Stevens park has got to be worth five million to some developer And these two don't even have the decency to recommend to the trustees to give it back to the stevens families Since they really have no use for it I'm sure the stevens family could use the money This is just the stuff that I found when I went walking through the park If someone with real knowledge on how to run parks and rec department went through the department quite certain They would find a huge mess his clear neither the town manager sx parks rec director Know how to take care of parks or even even though they have advanced degrees and six figure salads I was talking to the tree farm over the weekend I'm fine from listening to and hold on please for one moment. I'm perfectly fine with you as those of us who are elected officials We um put ourselves out there and at times have a uh By doing so can get ridiculed be little made fun of so on and so forth and that's protected speech I ask you though to please be respectful of our staff and to please uh not put forward judgments In the way that you are please keep your comments civil If you have factual information like of the quality of the of what you've experienced, please keep it at that level Okay, i'm just a civil guy. I'm just a normal guy. I don't know really what you're talking about But if you just let me finish my my talk I would I would appreciate that um You hand it you hand that tree farm over to the town manager in the sx rec department They're going to run that place into the ground take all the money and use it somewhere else um Andy Watts told me a couple weeks ago during the select more meeting The town manager sets the agenda. It's clear that's a select board and the trustees are not in charge The town and village are being run by the town manager It's time for the boards to start putting him in place If they can't do that need to find members who will It's time for someone to make the motion to get the town manager resignation. Thank you Yes, Pat Yes, certainly There is an amount of public speech that's allowed and allowable in these meetings, but These meetings have also and I believe both boards have agreed to the rules that there's an amount of civility to them um, Mr. Champagne you accused our staff of I believe Attempting to money launder in your previous statement. You may be a simple man But you still must remain civil at these meetings You are protected speech But up against the rules of civility here So you can say what you want about us and public officials But I will not stand here and have you accuse our staff of embezzling money If you cannot keep your comments civil Then you need to hold them and you can send them to us or you can send them off to a publisher All protected speech You mean don't ridicule you in in public form such as this so you can't take heat for it. Yeah, sure With you if you have a problem What about the elected officials not our hired staff, please can we move on? Yeah Okay, so next on who lives if we have dylan macamara All right, thanks for having me andrew. I just wanted to speak. I'm a community member. I'm a I'm a parent I'm also a coach At the high school. I coach help out and I coach cross country Um, and I want to say as a community member. I've certainly enjoyed the fields my my kids played soccer there And um still use the fields today. I think it's a great asset for a community to have I think as we look forward and move forward In terms of future management, I I agree 110 with some of the points that steve use dismayed we do need to make sure that Uh that the management company is is taking Uh the interest of all the users In mind and so for example the last year our cross country team The boys and girls were not really able to use that those trails. There was a lot of hazards on the course And frankly it forced us to go and run on roads and and instead of, you know, Leverage the trails that are in the backyard of the high school. So I think as we move forward Uh an approach to management that looks beyond the fields Maintains the trails Make sure that they're accessible for for all people during reasonable hours I think that's that's an really important point that can't be overstated and I'd just like to you know advocate for a shift in management that can Accomplish that so thanks for letting me speak andrew and and thanks to the board for the hard work Thank you dylan Next we have ed de molder Can you hear me? We can of course yours. Thank you. Um, so ed de molder. I'm um I was in the room 20 plus years ago with uh when the the select board and the Uh the trustees heard the proposal or voted on the proposal by trevis scorer of a monsacra association for the original trefon with with steve Um, it was a soccer facility Uh with other usage So I have a couple of of of comments One is at the time that it was proposed the original documentation Said that there would be no a no permanent structures on the facilities Which which meant there could be no upgrade of the Red barn that stands to include any type of concessions or bathrooms There could be no permanent bathrooms put in um and Little league and softball was prohibited from putting in any type of back stops and so um That was a boner contention at the time with some of the advocates for little league and softball So my question one of my questions before I have a couple of comments is has that changed Our permanent structure is allowed to be placed on the tree farm now If you don't mind ed could you uh, uh, list out your questions Well, that was my first question and then I have some comments So could anybody answer that has that changed from the original intent when the state gave it to the tree Tree farm committee and the board the two boards agree has has that changed because if it has changed Um, if it hasn't changed then then there'd have to be a change down the road Um, that would impact the timing for soccer usage because the fields would would not be usable for soccer Andrew evan has a comment. I don't Yep, go ahead. I'm not aware of anything in the deed that we received from the state that prohibits recreation equipment Uh being placed on the property the only restrictions that I'm aware of are the buildings that are on the far Uh, northern end of the property that is a house a a barn Or garage in a in a bathroom facility that's In need of repair that need to be uh, maintained but other than that I'm not aware of any restrictions of any athletic structures Well, all right. So so over the last 10 years that's changed because it was originally proposed there were no You could not add anything permanent to the tree farm facility 20 years ago Okay, um, so I I have two two other two other comments One is as a soccer user as a soccer coach with s6 united soccer club and a user the facility If the facility becomes used by other groups Such as little league softball Other groups it's going to impact the soccer community and specifically s6 united and the nordic soccer club in their ability To run their programs as it's currently set up with the number of players that they have My second comment is um, I run for the state of vermont a special needs soccer program in the fall Called top soccer. It's a us youth soccer um program for children with Intellectual physical and emotional needs. It's a six-week program And the tree farm has been has bent over backwards to accommodate us for a short six-week timeframe for just a couple of hours a week and as a User like that. That's not a major user. I'm concerned that um a program like ours will potentially be squeezed out and uh and impacting some of our most vulnerable Families from all of chitin and counting not just sx That that come and use the facility. So um, I I'd like the the uh the board to consider That as well when they're voting. Thank you Thank you very much ed Looks like next we have stuff in b First i'm on the quarter jazz. I have a thick accent. So you might um find a little difficult to understand me um, but my point really Along with um, Mike in the guy who just spoke. Um, I mean I live in brellington and on this nexus and of course at the brellington high school So I spent um a lot of time in the brellington area, but on my free time I do um I mean sx all the time. I play three days a week over there and I guess my main point is because at the beginning you guys mentioned now that You playing our hope to keep everything the same. That's why like keeping your rentals happy And keeping like things to the same but like as everyone mentioned with all like Obviously, I have nothing against you guys making that baseball and rugby that was that all that Things I can bring life to the community. You can like you won't have not just the soccer community You also have baseball and rugby people come to the community Those are people that can go to the bars and go to the restaurant and have bs and drink after that So that's more basing to sx. But when you bring in all these other communities You're also taking away For the people who have been playing soccer there like almost 20 years now Like I said, I play there three days a week and that people they hope they're more than that So when you take away those time, you're taking like maybe three or two days a week of soccer For me and I guess I'm just concerned that once you guys bring in those other businesses You guys don't take away time from us and also you guys mentioned about keeping um the tracks um Um Well keeping the tracks and everything that clean and all that stuff and you talking about how you're Breaking your management that can do all that That I feel is just a little backstabbing because if you have just kind of consent just a thing that should be brought up Long before you have a discussion. What are you gonna bring a whole new management that you can just see a problem and be like It's a problem But I'm gonna talk about everything when I'm ready to replace that other person You gotta go to that person be like, hey, this is what is happening This is what you guys need to fix and if that don't get fixed then you can take a replacing them You can just be or you guys don't clean the track you guys go Water or do all this because you don't do that. I'm just gonna talk about replacing you That I'm sure it's in the contract somewhere. I'm only 26. I haven't been here long enough I was six years old when you guys first signed the contract. I don't know what's in the contract but in a way, I feel like like You guys you have at least Keeping some kind of heads up your head. Um, I mean, uh, June. It's all yeah It's a yeah. It's less than a year away. That's all not a lot of time to put all this into work Like because you have you guys have no plans right now of how you're going to make out this work You have no plans or how you're going to keep your current rental happy while breaking on new rental thing Like I wonder I guess my question. What is your plan? Because you can have hope you can have intent but all that means is not if you don't have a plan to work on this whole intense I thought that's it. Thank you uh Jill Lampren. Hi everybody. Um, I'm Jill Lampren. I am the scheduler for the tree farm. I've been in this position for 10 years um, I've previous to that I was a parent of a soccer player. So we started visiting the facility uh when it first opened Uh for rec soccer and we've been there every single year since Um, and I I just want to put myself out there as available to answer a lot of questions that need some context um, like one of the things that have been brought up is the access to the trails the conditions of the meadows and uh gate access. Um, so the gates open generally at dawn and close at dusk That's how it was all the years I've worked there until covid when covid came It never opened up again until the middle of june 2020. So if anybody visited that park or facility to run or whatever. Yes, the gates were locked and even now we are closing after the last reservation because people are squeezed for space and they are Taking space at the tree farm without authorization. That means moving goals So when a paid customer comes things are not necessarily set up properly And we're just still coming out of that covid mode at the same time. We have a new A new company taking care of the mowing and all that so there's a little bit of Um learning curve there with how far up into the meadows to get and I would just ask for a little leeway there as That gets figured out especially on the heels of covid um As far as if you show up to run and the gate is locked I would encourage anyone to just drive right past the tree farm Pull into the white barns and you can park there and access the facility anytime By going over the footbridge And enjoy your run your bike your cross country ski whatever it doesn't take the gate being open for you to do that um Also about the trail specifically. Yes maintaining the trails at a minimum is in the agreement But maybe six years ago or so the high school moved their huge Labor Day weekend race from catamount which charged them a lot of money To the tree farm and they spent time on their own Under different leadership than is currently running it To evolve those trails pretty dramatically Fairly elaborately really But with the agreement that they would maintain them So it was actually a really wonderful opportunity for the tree farm to bring in another sport Work with the high school and I have not heard any complaints. So i'm a little surprised to to hear such A laundry list of complaints about that. I'm actually working with them right now for labor day weekend coming right up So I will continue to reach out to them and see what we can do to make them happy as I would do with any customer Which also by the way, I want to say it does include Ultimate frisbee already. That's one that was let's bring in ultimate frisbee They trained at the facility Tuesdays and Thursdays all spring long So we do already have that covered. We have been expanding a lot. So I'm here to answer any other questions that you might have Thank you for that, joe Jim you're next Jim barf you can go ahead and Sorry about that. Can you hear me now? Again, go ahead. Yeah. Um, so yeah a parent of a couple of cross-country runners And to um, you know, what steven was saying is you know, spent a lot of you know, personal time An energy Typically in august to get the trails ready and what you have at the tree farm is an amazing piece of property You know, quite frankly Not only the fields which are really pristine, but the hillside And the trails surrounding it is is, you know, really great And really what i'm just advocating for, you know, is i'll say a little bit more support because the Um, the cross-country team and parents that you know, do all of that work We're not we're not professionals in that space, right? And so And it does take, you know, a lot of uh, kind of labor A lot of expertise to maintain a trail system, especially with you know, some of the You know, rainstorms and washouts we have so I think what I'd like to, you know, advocate for Are a couple of things number one is to have, um, you know, professional organization who can Oversea and provide, you know, maybe some kind of annual college, you know, budget to keep the trails to where they, you know, should be I think the Essex, you know cross-country team and and parents, you know, will continue to put in, you know, the the energy Um and resources to help maintain it But I think that there is some oversight and support there And then there's also I think a broader opportunity to make that trail system If you look at the premier cross-country facility in new england, it's at thatford You know where they have both a trails run and they typically will host the new england championship The system that you're the hillside that you have in in Essex at the pre farm is Virtually identical to some of the trail systems in that for and so I think that's really kind of a hidden gem If that was developed Again, I'm not talking about overdevelopment and have a, you know, crisscross of trails and networks there But I do think with some specific oversight and some specific direction You could continue to improve those trail systems And really be a big drop for, you know, people in the community as well as folks outside So I think my request is kind of twofold as one is to make sure the management team Really considers some maintenance or supervisory or support of the trail system As well as an expansion of that, you know, to really make The trail system as, you know, kind of beautiful and As a destination as the the soccer fields are themselves Thank you, Jim William you're next go ahead and unmute yourself or is yours Hey, thank you. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, we can Thanks, I appreciate it. Um, so my name is William Hines. I run the vermont amateur soccer league here in Chittenden County I've been renting from the tree farm since about 2008 2009 I run about 560 hours Give or take per year at the facility so, um You know, I just I just Like like like other people that have been talked I just have concerns of kind of getting squeezed out of there. Um My league is also the only full-size adult soccer league that's I'm sorry except for the women that just started up this year. So I apologize. I'm the only Certified United States affiliated soccer league that is full-size for for men and my league really depends on The tree farm just due to the fact that there are so many fields that can accommodate my league on Sunday afternoons and and Tuesday nights that I'm worried that we'll get squeezed out of there and And it's I'm all about other sports. That's amazing, but When I when I hear that it's not going to change And the use is going to be, you know You know the same But then on the other hand I hear well, we want to add baseball fields and softball fields that that to me is It's you're changing it. You you plan on changing it down the road um Which concerns me, um and and also, um, I just want to add to that as well That uh, you know the tree farm management group has been great to work with over the last 12 or 13 years that I've I've rented the space and I also would have maintenance concerns if if the town took over as well, um, you know The tree farm has it down the maintenance is great And also it's got a personal touch where if there is something Wrong because no one's perfect. I can pick up the phone and call Jill or text Jill Right on the moment and I get an instant response and and I'm afraid that that is going to go away and um And I just I hope that The board realizes that that facility was built on the shoulders of soccer leagues and soccer players and it's really important to that community From my league to The elite eight league to the to the club teams like like Nordic and s6 united that place is Everything and we're and we're a really tight knit community and and a family of sorts and we really Really can't afford to be squeezed out of that facility Thanks for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you Charles Laura's yours. You can go ahead and unmute yourself Hi, uh, thank you. Um, my name is tinot and uh, charles and senator And uh, as you consider this decision I respectfully ask that you also consider your decision on the number of New American kids and adults that utilize this facility for the enjoyment of the sport of soccer Please don't realize the negative impact of your decision on the access to soccer fields For this segment of the population While also trying to make accommodations for other field sports, which I have absolutely nothing against but There is going to be a negative impact While I am here as a Tree farm soccer player I feel compelled to speak on behalf of my fellow new americans who Are also a soccer crazy as I am and uh, no matter where we grew up Whether it was the streets of kinshasa or refugee camps in Nairobi one thing that We could always count on Was access to soccer fields When we came here to the united states, uh, we assimilated and dissipated in all aspects of american life However, one of the things that come from our past that we still hold dear to our hearts despite All the efforts of many of my american friends is the love of soccer And it doesn't take much foresight Uh, sorry, it doesn't take much forethought to realize that Your plan to open access to other fields, uh to other sports will absolutely dilute this access And it might not happen in the first year. It might not happen in the second year But it's almost hundred percent inevitable that That is what is going to happen in the future is that there's going to be Baseball fields lacrosse fields and what happens to those soccer fields And what happens to the access that we have created over the 20 years that tree farm has been in existence. Thank you Thank you, Charles Mike or is yours go ahead and unmute yourself. All right, this is mike timis rock. Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can Uh, yeah, so i'm a soccer parent um, the decision It just seems a little rushed, um, you know first I heard about it was You know today it's potentially up for sort of what seems to me like a You know all but irreversible vote as soon as today, which just which just seems rushed, um, You know the change might be a good idea Um, but i'm not sure you know anyone's really ready to make the decision You know as a long, you know as a you know somewhat longtime user of the tree farm You know, I think things generally go well there, but I mean, you know just to be frank Like I think some of the maintenance could be better the fields the parking lot Um, I'm also not a huge fan of the no dogs policy um But again, those are just kind of minor quibbles I do think as others have mentioned some of the arguments in favor are a little bit sort of contradictory if we do Install different types of fields at the treats of tree farm, you know by definition, we're going to be taking away soccer fields Um, so I think we just need to be frank about that. We can't get up and say well, nothing's going to change Except that we're going to take away two soccer fields and put in baseball fields because clearly that is a change You know or what it's worth my kids to play baseball also Um, but you know, but but again, this might be something that just requires a little more time a little more deliberation um You know back to my point about the maintenance, you know the parking lot especially You know also the fields, you know, someone mentioned maybe budget for the trails Um, you know, I think the notion that this would have zero tax impact on us Um is also a little hard to believe. Um, you know, this is a huge facility, you know, I in in the Some of the materials shared before the meeting that was mentioned of installing bathrooms Um, you know playground other improvements, you know, I mean again, those might be good ideas But those are you know, those are all things that you know cost money Um, I don't think we're going to have sort of like a playground fee to cover the the cost of the playgrounds um You know, I mean perhaps one of the solutions we should be considering is to sort of Expand, you know the uses and and in turn the membership and the number of stakeholders, you know within the current structure Um, you know, that may be a way to sort of diversify the uses a little bit and to get more sort of community input Um without making the the the radical change of you know, moving from the structure that's worked for, you know, quite a while Um to the town and village taking over Um, and then finally I guess back to something I keep mentioning over and over with it being rushed I really don't see how it makes sense to make this Pretty drastic change, you know before the separation issue is resolved Um, I just see this being sort of the latest Thing that people fight over, you know in the context of the separation argument You know if the decision is made to not renew the lease Um, you know, perhaps renewing the lease for less than 10 years is the answer um But again like in the context of separation I just don't see how how this timing this timing makes any sense Yeah, so I guess that's my final point just to summarize is that You know, it might be a good idea. I'm not 100 convinced But I think everyone sort of deserves more time to sort of mull this over and think more about what the impact is Um, and then especially when we add in the question of uh separation Thank you everybody Hey, Andrew, I just want to jump in. This is roge from the trustees for those listening at home Um, every there's been a lot of comments tonight about adding baseball softball That was strictly my comment as a trustee as one of 10 Um, so that is not as far as I can tell and any of the documentation or the proposal from ali or brad so Um, I just want to put people at ease that that is not As far as I can tell on the documentation what is being proposed. That's just something I expressed as a soccer parent Baseball or softball parent as well. So it's just me putting that out there to the team and I would not imagine to have much influence on that So I just want to make that clear for everybody who's about to comment that that is not in the plan My understanding from brad and ali is they want to keep it managed very much the way it has been currently managed Thank you, roge Mike. Thank you as well. I'm seeing some hands pop back up from people who have spoken So just so you are aware once we've gone through everybody who's wanted to speak online I'm going to ask then andy to manage the public comments In the room. So for those who have already spoken, we're going to prioritize others who have not yet spoken Just to again make sure everybody's on the same page here Justin you're next You guys hear me. All right. We can go right ahead. All right. Awesome. What's funny? I originally turned into this just to watch and then the more I listened I realized maybe I should jump in and Say something because I'm here and some pretty great Things from both sides, right? There's like two very passionate groups of people here. There's the tree farm management group who has successfully managed an awesome operation Supporting youth sports and soccer and industry and businesses and experiences and memories and balloon landings, right? All that good stuff. We haven't even talked about balloons yet, but we'll say that for another day I guess, you know kind of going back to it. I know lots of people on both sides is It feels like as much as it's a passion point. It's also like let's take some time and figure it out like Two years five years extension. Let the village and the town figure out its own business Let them work with the existing group manage the fields And the programmings around the fields bring in maybe another partner to manage the forest So you've got the fields and you've got the forest Because that's like the two really like, you know passionate groups here, right? I think the parks department obviously wants to you know, help support the land and you know, I've got friends that work there and you know, so it's I guess going back to it is You're clearly not ready yet Like the pools closed early because you can't pay lifeguards right now, right? There's you know, the there's no budget ready for it The the group is managing like three years out right now for tournaments and contracts for tournaments So I think it's like it's a great idea But like to rush it through just seems like it's ambitious and the community is clearly not ready for it because you've got passionate people on both sides The trails are awesome there. I ride the trails. I hike the trails The fields are there. They're awesome there. I play soccer there. I coach soccer there You know, and I think that's really it is like it's almost You know to mention the local businesses that make revenue off of you know, the tournaments and you know, the clubs I guess back to it is it just seems like it's rushed I think both groups all three groups can sit at the table and Really carve out something awesome that no one has to sacrifice everyone succeeds and everyone gets to use the land Because I think that's what we're all here for So I'll leave it at that. Thanks guys. Thank you, Justin Corey, you can go ahead and unmute yourself and the floor is yours Thank you. Um, my name is Corey Sinet I reside in south burlington but I Play in the vast league. I play in the lead eight. I ref in the versus league And I just want to comment on the the Person who said that the fields are pristine Most are in good shape But to be honest, they're overused They're not pristine and that's no fault of the tree farm management group um Reason being really is the season is simply too short and the demand is is way too high Um, the best plan is to not diversify the sports access Uh, it's to really bring in turf A turf would be something that could drastically improve and increase the season of the tree farm From may through october to april through december in some cases and I have friends in uh, new hampshire in boston where they have turf fields and they're playing almost year-round So that's kind of my two cents and I appreciate the time. Thank you Thank you, Corey Uh The next person is listed as tree farm soccer player. So if you could uh, say your name just so we know who you are The floor is yours Hi, this is uh, ben bergeron. So as my description says, I'm a tree farm soccer player. Um, so I've grown up playing You know to I guess reiterate some of the comments both Mike um and corey just made I grew up playing in all the leagues that have sort of been represented here between You know vassal of my own true soccer um Currently playing in the league eight and then even the versus league. So I've grown up um kind of watching All these developmental soccer leagues including the clubs sort of support that facility and kind of grow it to basically what it's become so You know to reiterate what everyone else has sort of said before me at this point It's it's sort of at capacity now with the demand of soccer So I think you know not to close it off to other field sports, but I think it's sort of irrational to think that we're going to be able to Basically carve out some space for other sports and then still feel like you know, we're meeting the demands and You know supporting the groups that try and utilize that I think it's going to be a scenario where You know, no one's happy because no one can truly utilize it Based off the time they need so I just want to make sure that You know, it sounds like a lot of you know The people that I'm hearing chime in, you know that kind of refer to like the passive recreation and the you know, they're running I can't speak to You know those trails, um, but it sounds like more that You know, maybe there's some conversations that need to happen between you know The current management group and them to sort of try and Focus on developing and you know starting to help the you know public utilize those better, but then You know, I think Focusing on the current sports that are utilizing this, you know, it has to be the main goal. I don't think By any means sort of carving out space To then you know underutilize it or you know, just underutilize Whatever league tries to join in and utilize those fields. Um, is really the answer. So thank you Thank you, Ben Uh, so next in terms of those who have not yet spoken Lorraine's alum, you're up Go ahead and Can you hear me Andrew? Go right ahead. All right. Thank you. Um, a couple of questions. Um, it looks to me I didn't see in the proposal a quantification of the capacity in the town for sports So it seemed like in the proposal That had said that a number of Teams were turned away if I remember right so that indicates to me that we're at capacity I don't know that This proposal would take care of that issue. Um, just seems like a shuffle that will displace people that won't have a place to go um, also concerned about um quantification of Uh, the amount of volunteer hours that have gone in that have subsidized the tree farm Management because I assume there's a lot of volunteer hours that were not paid Um, how was that as a proposal how in feasibility did we quantify that and um, I think that's important to quantify In terms of taxes and how it will impact our taxes Especially given that through the separation merger Um discussions taxes seem to be a big issue for both municipalities um and then Clearly it looks to me from One of the things that was brought up in the proposal was that there Wasn't a seat at the table for the lacrosse and for ultimate crispy But it looks like we have two rec Representatives, so I would assume that that is a conduit for representation for other sports So I'm a little confused by that um And also I think if I remember right I thought lacrosse Actually used to play there that they moved to Fort so I don't know if the fort is also a space that can have capacity too um And so I would like to know how much I would love to have staff time quantified Because I've heard that we're at that capacity of their staff as well So all those kind of things when I see facilities being thrown in a park So on and so forth those all amount to tax dollars So I do think is a bragging right to say that we as a town have for 20 years enjoyed Something that's grown to a five star Soccer program that's known regionally throughout new england true. No taxes New no cost to the taxpayer except for the initial cost Which I think was under 190 thousand dollars. That's quite a There's quite a bargain and the other thing I would like to quantify too is I assume that there are swells in our businesses anytime the these programs are Are the events happen and I would like to know if there's been kind of an impact assessment on switching things up in terms of If we do start bringing in other sports because it seems to me I think We bring in I thought they bring in around 20,000 people a year maybe through the program Which is a lot of business for our town. So those are some serious concerns along with separation And is now the time given separation because I I see the word harmonious Written in the proposal and I think a lot of what we've done so far has not been harmonious So I have some concerns about Harmony in our decisions and this what's great about keeping the the tree farm group for now is that they're not They're not politically involved. It's you know, it's it's a separate entity So in a way what I like was the governance is actually two and two it looked like if there was ever any issues that came up Um, and I thought that was an interesting governance model Given that it was equal share for both municipalities And I would think in terms of the running and the trails from listening to Jill and That was added later and that the promise was they would do the work It sounds like maybe they can add a rep from Runners so that we can raise some funds to take care of that because if the schools are using it Maybe that's something you can add to the school budget even to take care in a separate way So it sounds like there's a lot of things that are solvable And I would hate to rush this kind of decision Given that we have separation on the table for reasons. Thank you very much for your time Thank you. Lorraine Next is meg munson. Can you guys hear me? We can barely though My name is meg munson. I'm the executive director for vermont youth soccer association Otherwise known as vermont soccer association and I just wanted to advocate for For soccer I don't think that This I think this is happening really quickly for us and I don't know that everybody understands just How many programs will be affected if they start shuffling around the usage at the tree farm? Some of the programs that come from my office would be the top soccer which ed de molder talked about State cup we run a fall league We do a spring tournament the target cup ODP which is the state select team olympic development program and coach education all of those programs for us depend on usage at the tree farm And we serve players from the top to the bottom of the state So what I would be asking for is a little more transparency on Exactly what the thoughts are As the town and the village when they get to that point if they're going to take over we would Many of us would be really scrambling to hold our businesses together clubs State association on down the line and it's it's very concerning to us that we could get squeezed out And that's all that's all. Thank you Thank you meg. So I see no other new hands on microsoft teams Uh, and as I'm saying that now another hand comes up I think that was any cooper Go ahead any Hi, can you hear me andrew? Yes, um forgive me. I'm hoarse from teaching. Um, and I was at the bike walk advisory committee meeting at the earlier start of this topic I'm embarrassed and uncertain about the question. I'm going to ask so please tell me if It's already been answered. This is common knowledge that I should already know um When there's a profit made at the tree form Because I'm assuming there is one because I'm hearing Nordics. I'm hearing a lot of private soccer club speaking Um, when there's a profit made at the tree form Where does that money go? So any that has not yet been discussed. Um, I know that we're going to be having a representative from I think it was a treasurer from the tree farm organization who was going to be speaking Um, and so I think that'd be a great thing for them to to go over Okay, and then just on top of that Um, when contracts are up for renewal These types of discussions are common and normal. Um, this doesn't seem rushed to me It seems like an intelligent thought process to wonder this aloud because the contract is up and um creatively thinking outside a box about Municipal land is intelligent I understand how much People love soccer and I've really enjoyed hearing the passionate speakers um and I think that Their voices will be heard regardless of who's managing it. So I guess I'm a little I'm a little confused I don't think it doesn't seem to me that there's um Going to be the change that people fear, but I don't know enough about it to know But I do know that it's normal To check on contracts make new decisions And I do wonder if municipal land When there's rent being paid and profit coming in I feel like that What I read in the packet was that that money would be reinvested and back in and I'm intrigued to know that we would manage our own Um, municipal land. I'm talking a little bit in circles But thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing further conversation. Um, when you say yesterday Thank you, annie Some more hands have popped up Jim Or is yours go ahead and unmute yourself Jim gowdy you can go ahead and unmute yourself Or is yours? Yeah, sorry, andrew. I'm just going to answer an annie's question there Is the uh, the tree farm management group is a 501 c3 non-profit so the money that has come in any profits That have been made over the years have been invested Jim, I think you might have cut out a little bit I think what you were saying is that any profits are invested back into the tree farm The tree farm operations. Is that correct? I'm sorry. I'm just getting some text breaking up You broke up a little bit. Uh, what I got out of that is that um profits go to And then I think what you were going to say is tree farm operations Yeah, correct into into improvements in the tree farm for example the Upgrading of the road the parking lot the fields Uh, the goals that we use of the tree farm. So that's where that money's been reinvested back into the tree farm Great Thank you, Jim Next up Deb McAdoo you can go ahead and unmute yourself Hi everybody, I'll be quick because it's getting late and there's been a lot of passion And all it reminded me was that all day I dream about soccer. That's what I know Edidas is so listen I I just realized that there's a profit. Thank you, Annie for calling that question I don't do soccer, but I do rugby and I would really love for you to fix that road all the way down to that backfield Please Oh and one more thing Brad luck does a pretty good job of taking care of the parks He's got a good record and we're going to be separating soon. So maybe this is a good time to start Going through the process of making those changes Thank you. Thank you Deb Okay, now I am seeing no new hands up online So Andy if you're ready to take it away For those in the room Alrighty, um I guess I'd like to start with the finance guy. Yeah Please introduce yourself My name is Sven Eckloff. I am not the finance guy Or the treasurer, but I do sit on the board the tree farm And Jim who just spoke is also a member of the tree farm management group Um, I think my point here is this is being rushed. It's come to us quite quickly We first heard of this back in the spring from Ali and in the crew At first we didn't know what to think we know this agreement's been up For renewal or consideration For a while, um, and I'm new to the board. So I'm learning as I go But from what I've heard, uh, there's been very limited discussion Um between the town Representatives and the tree farm management board and it's been a more of a one-way discussion from the parks Side the parks park and rec from the junction and the village both have a seat on the board They record represent one third of our board Um, so you can see it's been very hard to make key decisions when everyone is somewhat divided Um, that's my perspective as being a new board member I will say, uh, personally I I coach soccer for my three kids I coach little league baseball my team just went to bristol connecticut Um, I coach football I coach every sport in this town. I volunteer hundreds of hours And the tree farm is a very valuable resource for the town of sx not just for kids families, but also economically um I think this is being personally rushed in my personal opinion. Um, this is not a board opinion I think that the two rec departments are not getting along and that concerns me It's tough to make decisions when you can't see eye to eye um, I've just caught wind of stuff and That's concerning and I don't know if the public is really in tune with that So I think uh, if I had to make a statement now, I would postpone the discussion And possibly look for renewal maybe in a shorter term. I think long term I think there is a place for the parks and rec department to take over management But with so much uncertainty with the big vote in november and For me personally the parks and rec department's not seeing the eye to eye is very concerning And the tree farm management board was given this chance to manage the tree farm And we've done a really good job for 20 years And it's all been volunteered based so As for numbers I will second gym We last year lost money because of coven We still have to reinvest in our most valuable resource, which is grass It costs a lot of money to do that This year we are actually on pace to make money And we have already had plans lined up to actually fix the road believe it or not That's my biggest complaint as a soccer dad soccer coach I'm literally there seven days a week over the summer with three kids and three different programs So that is scheduled to get fixed Which is great We are also reinvesting into the grass and we are believe it or not creating a schedule now to retire fields year by year In hopes where the grass can stay strong and a lot of work goes in the grass and Uh At the end of the day, I think it's keep reinvesting so all the money we make this year would be going back into the into the tree farm So but I am new I don't have the historical perspective Or the knowledge but I I really do believe Going forward that it's too early to act on the parks and rec to manage The tree farm that comes from me personally not from the board perspective Thank you. Yep Let's see done Let's see done. Um, so, um, I had the opportunity happily yesterday So Oh Um, so yesterday I had the opportunity to talk to jill with along with a couple other people about this issue and I it's a nonprofit Jill gets a salary for all she does all year long a four thousand dollars And I don't think there's anything that we can do hiring a person to work the scheduling and everything that is going to be less than that And it's nothing that the taxpayers have to pay I do agree that maintenance is important And I think that the trails I myself use trails in the town And I'm very leery of places where there's high grass because I don't want to get ticks I don't want to get Lyme disease And so I do think as I said earlier in the night the trails committee is a working group And that's why I shouldn't be with the Conservation because they could also help with this and working on the trails And I think that the dogs not coming in to the park. I think Absolutely because I walked I was walking out on Matthew Forest today and yesterday I was out on the other side And people pick up the dog poop, but they leave the bags, you know And so that can that can be a disaster during a game There they go So I think that's really important and the structures on the agreement Of purchase and sale on page two The paragraph under number four Here in the property contains a house garage restroom building Seed extractory and are listed on the state register for historic places as historic complex They guarantee us can't condense and agrees that prior to undertaking any repair or alterations and the additions To the historic complex other than regular maintenance Will put proposed plans to the division of historic preservation And which will have the opportunity to be viewed and comment on all proposed work So it's not you that you can't fix the bathrooms that you couldn't have The garage or the house Become something else there and you know use it for multiple purposes It's just that you have to go through this process And I don't know that we've tried to do that at all And so I I I think that there's nothing here that people have talked about that can't be done within the system that we've already got right now and It's rushed I think it's come on a bunch of us very quickly to find that this was an issue That the rec department wanted to take it over but As all these people have said I think that It's good to have the information now and you can chew on it a while Let the merger or let the separation vote go and then you know come back to it and see where we can go but uh, I think that uh Uh The tree management group has done a good job And I think the only thing that is a real issue is the parking And I think mary wants to talk about parking. So I will take her time. Thank you very much. Thanks Mary Thank you. You want us to keep the mask on I I was sorry. I was only asking spend a bit of which is on after you went back to the audience If you're more comfortable speaking without the mask for the microphone, you know I'll speak loudly so everybody can hear me. Um, the reason I'm talking is really not about parking. Sorry No What I'm going to talk about is is the whole sense again that this is kind of like it feels to me kind of like, um Memorial hall was that all of a sudden there's kind of a major thing to those of us that are in the public That there's going to be a major change And we haven't heard about it until a day or so before it comes up potentially for a vote And I think it's rushed I think that it's um Not allowing everyone to have to think about it. Even if they haven't even heard about it Uh people that are not hooked into little committees that are interested in what's happening in the town aren't going to know and This all goes to my feeling of being a citizen Where I feel like a lot of I speaking for myself I feel unless I totally spend all my time paying attention to what's going on here And because I'm retired now my kids are gone. I can do that Um, I wouldn't know about half of these things and yet you're talking about my town So I think as we had said at a meeting a couple of meetings ago What we would like to see and I'm speaking the big we my friends or I whatever Um, could we bring these items up like we are tonight? But then have a week or two in between To mull it over have a chance to shoot some emails off to you To think about it and then you take a vote because it's just it just goes too fast and you feel like I have no say over what's going to happen in my community The feeling is and I it's just my personal feeling. It's like there's going to be one or two or three people in a staff This comes up with this idea and then they share it with trustees probably your select board And everything that happens is just between the staff You know you own the town and the rest of us just happen to live here and pay taxes But have it feels like we have no say Because some of it seems to be rushed. So it's just the personal feeling about that and we've talked before about transparency and That kind of stuff. Thank you. Thank you, Mary Um here, please I feel like we know each other. Yes. Hi, Andy. It's Eric said Yeah, my name is Eric sen. I happen to be the very first president of the working tree farm for about 10 years Took over when trevor Felt out of vogue with what was going on So I'd like to answer a couple questions to keep things factual I'd like to offer my assistance if anybody has anything they'd like to talk about later about what it means And then I'd like to just address the rec department if I could so First and foremost, uh, one of the several people have talked about access to the property the reason that the gate was put in was Literally almost the day we were going to start working on the property having it open for soccer somebody came in at night with a car and decided to do donuts on the field and there was Probably thousands of dollars worth of damage that peat shill back then who was managing the The landscaping aspect and did a wonderful job for many years. I think you should talk to him before you do anything else Um, that's why we put the gate in and we started having hours The other thing that you have to realize is this is a facility that is used by many people in the community to walk Do whatever but a lot of children go there to play soccer and all their little brothers and sisters The last thing we can afford as a community Is to have glass on the field so that when somebody starts sliding for a slide deck or falls They come up with cut fingers and hand and toes and legs You also unfortunately Have an issue around here with drugs, you know We can't have people sitting in the parking lots at night and find out that there's sharps in the parking lot So that's why the gate was put up It was not an intention to keep people out as much as it was to make sure that the tree farm could remain The way it should be for everybody who uses it The thing that I would like to address with brad and ali and oh by the way I was I was part of the person that interviewed ali and actually chose her along with pat shidell way back when So we go back a long ways. I think both of them have done an admirable job I mean this this town and village the recreation departments are awesome What I will also say though is you to be honest with you I you know, I'm going to speak to you brad and ali I'm not sure that you understand the amount of work that really goes into managing that property For one thing soccer is not done from an eight to five soccer starts at five at night and runs until dark It's also in the weekends It is also a large tournament like the the fire post in nordic used to be in sx united Those things you squeeze to start at like six a.m. And work until dark for two or three four days in row There's a whole bunch of people that you have to hire to do parking and parking If any of you have ever done parking is miserable when somebody comes in and says I want to park here And you're trying to maintain order and say look we just need you to park so we can get as many people in years We can it's hard so I know i'm rambling a bit But I really really just want to pass on to all of you that this facility takes a moment a Mountness amount of work The reason that users and there were several users that talked come to the tree farm is it had the best grass and state it was Many years ago. I was told this is the best thing north of boston And it's right here in our town and we are very very lucky for that But it doesn't happen automatically there The amount of seed we used to go through the amount of water when we were trying to water it Which we really do need to do more of All that stuff takes a lot of time a lot of effort and a lot of people and so I don't believe Or even the remotest chance that in your current budget with your current staff and you can take on something the size of the tree farm I'm not saying that these guys can't do a great job because they're energetic and they've done wonderful my hands off to you but Do do some research talk to pete shill Because he will tell you the hours he put in and on a weekend when somebody gets stuck because it's raining He used to pull them out with a tractor and there's just a lot of things that go on that That is bigger than what I would think a town and recreation budget has today Not saying you can't grow there, but it's it's not easy. It takes a lot So if there are any questions that I can field in terms of from a historical perspective I'd be happy to do that. Otherwise I will leave my name and number if you'd like and if anybody would like to talk to me I'd be more than happy All right. Thanks, Eric Yeah, thanks My name's ken woods I'm a coach. I'm a player I've actually coached for alley. So I've coached rec I coach in several competitive Soccer clubs both in spring and fall I'm also the ems middle school seventh and eighth grade coach starting this year I have been involved with the tree farm in some capacity Since I was 22 I'm 39 so 17 years As a player and as a coach I've played the sport of soccer for 34 years And I've played in the Midwest. I've played down in Dallas. I've played in minnesota. I've been to a lot of different Recreational facilities What we have here is special Right. It's unique. I would say in vermont the only other Collection of fields that comes close to it is down in manchester Um And I think that the tree farm group does a fantastic job And I'll say that also saying I think their hands are tied right if we want to do things like Build trail systems, which I think is laudable and and we should do those things, right? It's a it's a community asset. It should be shared with everyone Um, we could seek things like corporate sponsorship that could be managed to the tree farm group to bring in those funds Right at no additional cost to the taxpayer Um, we could seek input from cross-country groups From other members that could seat on the tree farm board And do you bring up an interesting point earlier with the separation of the town and the village? um And I had a parent I was talking to about this And I like their analogy. It's a little tongue-in-cheek It's like your parents are going through a divorce and in the middle of litigation. They decide to have a baby right It feels really accurate in this scenario, right? We have something that is unique and precious and at capacity. So, you know Depending on the week. I'm kind of in in Sven's bucket. Um, I coach three programs so In the spring anywhere from 12 to 45 hours. I'm at the tree farm. So the s6 united tournament I was there 10 hours a day for three days in a row plus running practices. So that I feel like the amount of time that the soccer community has been Put into that they they they're the ones that have built it up, right? So there's only a certain amount of capacity Um, you know, Sven talks about seed and grass and water Uh, you know, I think Cory who was on the on the call line earlier talks about some of those fields are already at capacity and they are um To bring in additional groups to to open it up to other services Would kill what little field resilience is there towards the end of the season um, I think actually the tree farm needs to go into a a field rotation Certain fields can't be used for the season. Um to be able to make sure that that they're usable the next year So the amount of groups that that we could theoretically want to open up those fields to and i'm and i'm actually glad that we're serving things like ultimate frisbee It sounds like the only group that we're really not addressing from a field sport perspective is lacrosse Uh, to bring those in we are displacing those groups that Have put in that time in that effort Uh, somebody mentioned volunteer hours hundreds hundreds of volunteer hours um from the ability of The parks department to handle that I have concerns Um, I also happen to have been uh involved with essex town little league and foster road park Um is maintained through the extraordinary efforts of essex town little league with very little help from the uh town um Whether that is volunteer cleanup weekend Volunteer cleanup weekend for a municipal facility where parents come in and rake all the leaves and do all the fields And clean out the dugouts and paint the the bleachers and paint the the inside of the dugouts Wash them where parents are transporting Shovel loads bucket loads of dirt and they're preparing those fields Where through donations and the efforts of those baseball parents are those municipal baseball fields maintained I have dire concerns Whether those programs can now take on something the scale of the tree farm knowing that foster road It's pretty much ignored and and and worked on by those parents in that league and those volunteers um I think It's not a bad conversation to have Right, one of the things I I chide. I'm I'm midwestern. So I come from southern, ohio Uh, I immediately think that when somebody says the solution is more government. Um, I want to put a check on that, right? uh Not that private enterprise can be trusted, but I do think there is a unique setup here Especially with the divergence of the town and the village to have a stabilizing factor On a very important asset and maybe it's not a 10-year renew Maybe it's a five right and during that five we actually take the time to incorporate those other groups And we say great. Are you being served? Are you being served? We allow the tree farm the time to assess And and address those concerns And then we say is this still serving the community appropriately? We're actually budgeting We come forward with the plan. This is the usage. This is how it breaks down This is how it serves those communities and people can have input into the process. Um, I just feel this is rushed I I think we're taking something special Um, and and you know, it's the greatest thing north of boston. I don't disagree Um, uh, you can go to any number of out-of-state tournaments. I'll think saratoga Is one of them the only thing that I can think is similar in the area maybe gilderland, right? But that's a much denser population a lot more taxable income Um, we're a ton of 11 000, right? And we've got a world-class facility that's been managed wonderfully for 20 years So I would suggest that we pause Do all that planning put it down on paper. Don't just trust that in 14 months We're going to get our stuff together because I think if we're all a little objective and look at how that's gone historically We could be sitting exactly where we are in 14 months with no plan Um, and we let the tree farm group do what they need to do possibly some seats at the table And allow those families that have put in that time that effort frankly hundreds of thousands of dollars Over over many many years We allow them to feel comfortable with the knowledge that they're going to have that asset forward Um, again, you know, this won't change what I do with my clubs, you know, the tree farm is important to us um, uh, you know, it's it's our primary, uh Primary play space it's where our practices are it's where our home games are where we host tournaments Um, um, you know, I think if we were displaced, there's there's nowhere for us to go And we serve a very important um Part of the soccer world which is town soccer which is disappearing Right, you know, I nothing against any of these other clubs But I think there is a place for a low-cost town soccer, uh League that continues Um, you know, we we serve, you know families that that can't necessarily afford to pay thousands of dollars Um, and if we get displaced Those families have nowhere else to go to play competitive soccer Um, I'll in there. It's late. Um, I think everybody's been patient and I think everyone's made great points um, but I would just I would warn caution take some time. Um, it's really important and we can't afford to screw it up So, thank you very much How can I follow that? Oh my gosh, and what would I have to say? I do have something to say and that is that in working with your name again, please Pardon me. Oh, my name is paul sergeant. Thank you. And I have grandchildren that play at the tree farm And I want to commend the um management group for the work they do. It has been amazing Um, and I know they're hazard. There's things we need to work on. I just want to say I think that the A wreck department needs to build credibility now I don't think they're in a position and I say this honestly because I know you have a very hard job But I know they're understaffed And I know we've asked them to get the staff that they need to focus on the senior center and they haven't So I'm saying, okay Here's this situation where we have this long-standing organization Which we've been asking for them to reopen and they haven't done it And um, we don't know about this open house. We don't know about anything that's happening So when they tell me they're going to run the tree farm and be transparent and that they're going to be um And there's going to be consistency in the programs one time the cedar center was open for like 40 hours a week we recently heard just by um Word of mouth can you keep your comments to the tree farm, please This is the tree farm part of the discussion that that they were not they were going to limit us to 15 hours a week And put the youth group in there So how does that this is their track record in our community right now? And I'm saying I think you need to build um Credibility again, I think you need to work on the programs that the parks and all the Facilities that we have here. I think there's some real need to to focus on what we've got get through the um The pandemic which I understand has really set us back But keep the commitments that you've got and the programs that you've got get them in place And and get through the separation because the um the staff at the parks and rec have said that the separation means that they cannot be fulfilling the um commitments that they made to the senior center so I I think it all comes together in the idea of uh, you need to to Show the this community that you're going to be consistent and you're going to build the programs that you have Thank you Barbara Higgins Barbara Higgins seven Cindy Lane. Um, I'd prepared a statement, but I'm going to abbreviate it because there have been many comments that covered some of my concerns Um, I'm not necessarily opposed to moving this to a municipal management, but I don't think this is the time I think there are many priorities that the select board Needs to deal with In terms of issues facing this community on an ongoing basis including separations impact if it should it happen Should it not happen? There are just so many other things that are much higher priority While there may be issues with it with management It could simply be that management doesn't know about all these issues and it seems to me that many people have brought issues to you about the excess and and use of the land that that require Considerable more attention over a longer period of time I previously had Was going to recommend that you at least extend the lease through 6 23 Or 24 perhaps it should be longer But I'm with everybody else on this in terms. This is being pushed forward without enough information about the impact on this community tax wise and otherwise Um And I'll just leave it at that. Thank you. Thank you Barbara Any other comments from the room? Um, I think I think board members are starting to get ready, but Andrew Can I just ask a question? How many of the 99 acres are actually soccer fields down there? I'm just curious how much land is left to the other activities that they're looking for Well, all the soccer program This this is Jill Ambron talking. Should I go ahead? Go ahead ahead. Okay. Um, I would say, um Most of the flat surface that can be used for fields is being used There is a little additional property behind the cemetery, which is probably not very Savorable to some people to explore. So I would kind of mark that out There's a bit of them the meadow hillside that is used for overflow parking Um, and then then trails. So I would say about a third is field space a third is parking and fields and maybe a third is Wooded trail area. Thank you Andrew, there's no more hands in the room in the public Thank you. Um, I See a couple hands online. Um And they're disappearing now um So patty and then jim and then i'm gonna say that we're we're done with public comments. I think we've probably heard Yeah, so uh patty go ahead Sorry, I can't hear me now. I just wanted to say that um, wow a lot of runners spoke up. I was really impressed Um, I I've never been to this tree farm, but it sounds like and it sounds like the wooded area is like sacks and hill And all parties, you know want to recreate my my question is Does the tree farm allow hunting? No, it does not there's no no shooting as part of the no shooting area in both the village and the town Great then I I I propose you do the same for sacks and hill because we're just as crowded and we're runners here too Thank you very much Thanks patty. Jim. Your hand is up. Is that a new comment or is that a holdover from before? Jim gowdy, if you're uh, if there's something new you wanted to bring up to the board, you can go ahead and do that now No, I think that was previously. Sorry about that. Don't worry. All right, so uh for For context, I guess, um brad Uh, are you Brad alley, are you needing a decision tonight or is this something where we can give questions to you? And ask you to come back at a subsequent meeting Yes, you do not you don't you do not need to reach a conclusion tonight. We would welcome questions and to return great so really what I Heard a lot of concerns and I really appreciate all of the voices from people who have come out tonight And stayed as late as you have So thank you for that. Um I've heard a lot of concerns around how do we ensure that those who are current users can remain as users um In particular how to ensure that that soccer can thrive in our community um How would we how would we ensure that the new uses Uh and or new sports could utilize those fields without overusing those fields um It sounds like there Maybe some desire for a business and maintenance plan um And one of my questions I'd be curious of is what other facilities like this do exist in our region and when I say region I suppose about a uh hour and a half two hour or so distance away. Um, I don't just mean the county And I would look to Other board members if there are other questions you have that you would like to have addressed in a subsequent meeting And roge your hand is up Yeah, brad nally, um, I guess a couple things. I'll just second what andrew mentioned Um I'm just looking at the the mo u and some of the documents that were in the packet and it it identifies Field-based and non-motorized trail use and we've heard a lot tonight um From some great soccer organizations and a lot of passion on the soccer front It's a phenomenal soccer facility But I do believe the agreements do specify it's open for For other sports as well, although it sounds like it's I'm not going to guess at a percentage but a very high percentage of soccer only. Um, so To echo what andrew said how how can we make sure that You know, all parties are still served while Returning to what appears to be the original intent of the agreement Which is to include all, you know, a lot of the other sports mentioned but not Seemingly not taking place there. Um, and I guess the other thing is that the next at the next time you all come back Maybe a good explanation of how an enterprise fund would work and a little more detail on how How the proposal, um, as I understand it would Would sort of just shift management, but the but the Costs and expenses and revenue would would would still work very much the same way. Do you give what I'm saying? Yes Thanks Go ahead, george. Um, hi Thanks, andrew. Can you hear me? Are you good? Go ahead Uh, brevin ellie, I'm just gonna actually make some just some Responses to some of the things I've heard and then if I'm saying something wrong Or you want to turn these into questions that'd be great to to require more information I first of all want to say to all of these soccer players There's I don't think I think I'm speaking for everyone here We're saying there's no desire to curtail or alter or push any of the soccer operations or any of the Uh, any of the programs out of the tree farm so you can all breathe a sigh of relief go home. That's not what's in works here Second of all, uh, I in the village we in in brad, you know, we have about it Our total rec budget is I think about two and a half million dollars. That's not tax money That's program fees in other words We provide a little bit of tax incentive for the tax support for our rec department But we have over two million dollars of programs Where money comes in from users and then it's spent on programs And the rec department Manages all that so, uh, in terms of scale of operation to be blunt We're already used to running a much larger organization a recreation organization In the village than what the tree farm would would be and I don't mean that in any way to diminish the tree farm But um, we have the expertise and the experience to do that Um, and lastly, I just sort of want to give a sense to what the real issue is It's not about getting rid of soccer by any means. We all appreciate that we all appreciate What it means to everybody. Um, we love the facility. I personally love I think it's fantastic I do think it's the best thing though. There's probably better than anything in boston. Um, but I I coached youth hockey for years Uh, with the sx youth hockey organization and we use the sx high school rink And we ran a big organization. We had lots of teams and we had tournaments Um, but there was never any question that ultimately the ultimate owner and manager in administrative control of the Of the hockey rink was in the hands of sx high school and ultimately the union 46 school board And that's really the issue in my mind here We we have this kind of odd situation where a non-profit organization is operating on on municipal property And I I think we need to kind of Modify that agreement. It's not that we're displeased necessarily with the tree farm Management crew, but I think the organization that we inherited we never really Often said wait a second. What are we going to do with this going forward? And so the lease is up And that's why we're taking this time to look at this and see if we can't Just as one example, if we wanted to invest if the village in town wanted to invest more money Over there, how do we work that out? How do we work with the tree farm? How do you work with the non-profit organization that's running this this these programs that we don't have control over? Um, so I think it's I I'm comfortable with the idea of putting this decision off Clearly I think there are a lot of questions that we need to answer. Um, but ultimately I don't think anyone should panic That we're trying to push anyone out the door or curtail anything Soccer as far as I'm concerned will be played there on those excellent fields for many many years to come Thank you Any board members in the room any comments from select board members? additional questions So I guess my only my only question maybe has already been covered by others is the the There were comments about the number of volunteer hours that go into Keeping the facility running And you know really like to have I guess an assessment as to whether If you're Then doing that now, you know, if we were switching to a model where we're paying people to do that all of that work Can we really afford, you know, is it what's the impact? Does it fit into the model a business model that you're going to propose? That's a concern I have um I guess I'll leave it that We very succinctly trying to provide a quick comment I know we want to move on Right ahead Thanks I just want to you know, george. I think I think you really summarize things well The intention here is not to stop what's been happening and stop the success Obviously in order to continue this as an enterprise fund and and to continue to have businesses Benefit from the use and to continue to attract these the organizations that have historically used it We need to maintain a high quality elite level regional athletic facility We need to continue to Have those groups return and be satisfied with their experience We would only be shooting ourselves in the foot if we thought we could start to Move around or shuffle groups who use five hundred and sixty hours a year and pay for those times That that would just be foolish on our part Um You know harlan smith is also on the tree farm management group He has really I think I think the board members would support has really taken the lead on advocating for a field maintenance plan He comes with that expertise and that's what he's been bringing uh to that group over the uh That's how the contract with s&d landscaping has take taken place I think we have that level of expertise. I think we run parks that are open from 7 a.m to 9 p.m Three hundred and sixty five days a year. We have pools that are open on the weekends. We have movie nights. We're we have 25 Plus full-time equivalents. We have a four million dollar budget between the two departments These are all things that we're we're used to in terms of you know troubleshooting things that happen on the weekends Or having busy weekends or tournaments That's all familiar to us. There are no plans for baseball fields. Thank you raj Um, you know, it's I think what raj was talking about is just a more holistic view of the property And as as ali and I you know as requests come in and we're trying to figure out where to program things and where to put things We don't get to look at these 99 acres at this time We only can look at the things that we are currently in our control And so you know what you want to do as a rec department is is maximize You know your knowledge and availability of fields and trails and then figure out where to where to house things and so um I think this is an opportunity to have a facility that has public transparency Accountability influence and input. I heard a lot of people talk about this being a community asset And and people having input and people having access and that's what you get when you put something into the public's Control Right now it's under private control and again. It hasn't been bad and they've they've done a fantastic job We're just in a different place now Um, so, you know, we look forward to the continued conversation And certainly, uh, we'll do that research and bring the information back to you whenever you request We return Thank you So unless there's any other burning comments, I think we're ready to to move on another short We well before we do that, do we want to take a few minute break give people a chance to stretch their legs? Would probably be helpful Thank you How about we take a like a 10 minute break come back at 9 50 or 9 49 9 49 sounds good I'm gonna ask if we could Skip ahead and do e and g because they expected to be pretty quick to get them Out of the way so we don't end up not if we can limit it to like five minutes for the vote for the two of them Yeah, so, uh, or do you want to do we want to do a? The vote to amend agenda No, let's go ahead, uh Okay, so I guess uh, yeah item e the the the town Town fair for from out leagues and cities and towns is coming up. They have an annual meeting where there's there's voting Um, I've done this a number of times for the select board um, we need to designate a Individual to do the voting by september 17th. We figured we'd knock it out tonight instead joint meeting. We're both probably gonna Do you appoint somebody? I've done it for a number of years, but I'm willing to let somebody else do it if they're they want to do it Um available. I can do it I think patrick you were involved with last year. Yeah, I did it last year and the year before as well But uh wasn't avoiding deli. I'm happy to have you vote in the I know you'll be there throughout the whole thing so unless uh Tracy you want the experience or don I'm happy to let you continue doing or Yeah, I'm happy that you offered. It's a it's a it's a day meeting. It's actually actually an afternoon meeting at the double tree on september 29th I didn't turn it down, but if you want to continue to do that, I'm perfectly fine with that um, I uh For my preference template I'd rather be available to do something else that day So if you want to do it, sure. Okay. I nominate uh, tracy delphea to be the delegate for the select board for the They're voting delegate for the vermont leagues in city of town's See the vermont league of cities and towns down there Thank you don any further discussion Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye opposed Okay, tracy's gonna represent the select board. Thank you tracy. Thank you tracy. I think personally, I have Never been um, and yet again, uh, I'm have a work commitment. So I can't make this one um George, I don't know if you've been in the past There's a trustee who wants to go I don't think I could get the time at this point, but sorry, um, andrew. I just can't right now I just get too many other things going on during the day. Yep Uh amber, sorry, I'm not available to do it either No worries Evan, can we appoint you? I don't know, but why don't you try and we'll see what happens You know, Dan, we could appoint Dan Dan's not here. We could appoint Dan to do it I'll tell you what why don't you appoint me? I'll go Would someone like to make a motion to appoint Evan? Evan teach? I'll move Oops, I'll second it then Uh, I think roge had the motion george. I think you seconded. Is there any further discussion? Thank you, Evan Thank you, Evan All those in favor signify by saying aye I love Great Quickly, I'll jump ahead to uh item g which is the select board appointing a Replacement member for the cannabis study committee Um, I know I know don expressed a significant interest in doing this uh previously so, um Go ahead Tracy. I moved to appoint don as the select board representative to the cannabis study committee Okay Thank you, Tracy. Thank you pat any further discussion All those in favor please say aye. Aye. Aye No, you don't All right some motion passes three zero with one abstention and that's that's don We'll allow that okay, then let's then go back to the uh other big agenda item Discussion of ser shared services and event of creation of independent city of sx junction um, we had previously gotten a Proposal from the trustees The select board did take a few meetings to Uh put together a response which was provided to the trustees last thursday prior to it going out in the package and And we Uh, I guess what the like to do is go through that response. I know Yeah, it's five minutes to ten and andrew you had asked in an email earlier to limit the discussion to five particular topics is that If we could prioritize those not that we have to limit it but given that it is almost ten o'clock if we could Uh limit it to police finance reappraisal senior services in indian brook That would be great The select board okay with with starting with those topics and continuing if we feel we have time okay, so Um, if you're keeping a scar at home, this may be a little challenging to keep up But we'll try to get in the right keep keep keep you in the on the right page Police finance reappraisal senior services in indian brook Okay, so regarding the uh police services The the select board definitely supports providing police services to the new city by contract um The uh our proposal would be that the such a contract would include all police department costs Including but not limited to administration finance it hr workers comp and liability insurance The budget as is generally approved does not include all of that support Effort um, so we would like to wrap all that up together In in such a kind as part of the agreement We are would the select board would support uh looking at Uh contracting on a per capita basis for a from a cost standpoint But we're willing to consider other metrics. Um, I know that you know For instance, the uh, there's a lot more driving associated with covering the town Um, I don't know if that is uh is a valid consideration with the but they're We're willing to consider other metrics um We uh the Trustees asked for a long-term contract. Uh, we are still Considering wondering about the legality of a long-term contract and with with regard to binding The action of future select boards. Um So but we would we do recognize that a contract needs to be long-term enough to provide stability We're considering uh three to five year with a Periodic review within that timeframe and also annual approval through the budget process Um Regarding the police chief the new city manager would likely be consulted For hiring purposes, but the town manager since it would be a town employee has final say for hiring town employees um Regarding an advisory board this the select board would like to see more definition of what that board's responsibilities would be um And also with significant input from the equity group Um ordinance alignment. We believe should be aspirational We support it when we believe it. We should be aspirational. We don't want to be constrained by uh Be contractually bound to uh Uh align ordinances um special events, uh We're proposing would be subject to separate contracts And the special events may or may not also include uh five corners um Walk times for The schools um Any police future debt would be decided by town voters And included in contract pricing for services So if in the future the town felt that additional police department debt was necessary It would be a town only vote And the the cost of that debt would be included in the uh Price for services for the uh city And police department revenue will be retained by the town Uh but used to offset costs so it would offset the Um contractual cost for the for the city. So that's pretty much a summary of Our response to the police services discussion so, uh Thank you. Andy. Can I respond? Yeah, go ahead. Andrew Um, so what would be helpful I think is uh if as we go through this tonight if our boards Can come to an agreement in spirit where if it seems like the consensus of our boards is that we have agreement If we could have some level of uh, or if we could have staff at that point use that as a framework for a contract Where then that could come back to us at a subsequent meeting for an actual formal vote But just so we can move this process along a little bit. I think that would help us in terms of discussions Uh tonight And moving forward something you're okay with So you you are expecting, uh A signed contract at some point here I've asked you this I've asked this question before are you is this is the are the trustees expecting the select board to sign A contract before The legislature decides whether To allow you to separate Yes And to help get us to that point if there are points and times in which we have uh some agreements That we can have our staff and or attorneys work on the contracts now Bill I see your hands up Thanks, Andy. Um I don't see a problem with having tentative agreements TAs that we would call them in the union negotiation realm But my recommendation for the select board would be that This is an There's got to be a A bit of a full deal here You can't just like one off one off one off that would not be my recommendation It should be a universal deal Right. So andrew there's no there's no police contract. There's no Reappraisal contract. There's no it's all one contract everything together I know it's not what I meant, andy. Oh, I don't have a problem with saying there'll be separate contracts for the separate services, but You shouldn't one off you shouldn't say, okay, we got a police deal And we don't really care about any of these other issues that are issues for the tent Okay, I understand. Sorry, bill. I I'm Miss miss uh Is interpreted that so your your your suggestion is that we do not sign Singular contracts. They all sign together They all they all depend on each other Either we have a deal or we don't have a deal an overall deal for everything, right? so Regardless of that as we go forward today and as we continue these conversations if we have an agreement on let's just say how to pay for or how to divide up the costs Then can we have our attorneys start to draft that language up into the contract? Yes Yes What I just said was a tentative agreement. It's a ta, but the ta doesn't get implemented until you have an agreement across all issues So you'll have a deal tentatively And everyone say, okay. Here's the deal on police But it's not a deal until All other agreements are put in place A formal binding agreement is when we all agree on this is the way that the village is going to separate from the town So if we go through the police Why don't we start with uh How it would be paid for And I hear the proposal of instead of grand list using Um using a per capita Uh in spirit, I'm okay with that Do any trustees disagree? Andrew, I do not disagree. I I'm okay with it too. Um My only recommendation would be that the police probably the person who knows best If I had to guess how to divide up the cost would be the police chief Uh, so I would only only meekly suggest that we defer to him or at least Take his advice and he's given us his advice already But I would go in the in the in in working out a tentative agreement about the police I would I would recommend all parties that you once again just Confer with the police chief because he might have the best insight on how to divide this stuff But I I don't have a problem dividing it up per capita. That's fine So I'm not hearing any disagreement from other trustees So that sounds like we may have an agreement on that Any other select board comments anything I missed or anything you want to I like I mean what we came up with is Right there. Yep. Yep. Okay Okay, sorry right enter I was gonna then move into how we determine cost and actual cost Um, it I think again, it makes sense that the actual costs of the police department include some of those Those supports uh administration finance hr it workers comp so on and so forth that makes sense You need those to run a police department um I want to emphasize that That the city should be responsible for the actual cost though And not a cost that is derived to uh or intended to create a profit So it would be great if we were able to have finance staff come up with a proposal of What that would actually look like There's a hand up in the room with a point of order question and Andrews go ahead Barbara I come forward with the microphone Sorry Barbara Higgins, um I'm aware that back in may that the uh a resolution was agreed to that was was to investigate Um an amicable separation And I am unaware of any vote I look back through Of this select board To enter into formal negotiations And since that has not been on the agenda and has not been been warned, I don't know how in the world you could be doing this What is going on here? You have an obligation to the total community to be as transparent as possible You've spent much time telling us that this was an investigation That it didn't commit you to negotiate That you are going to look into the different parameters to present those Parameters to the community. You're not doing that You're moving to negotiations without having as a board Made the decision to enter into formal negotiations Thank you Thank you Barbara. Um, I guess the question to the board then is this something we need to address That's a legal question for bill The trustees made a proposal they they served the first shot Uh, and this is the select board's first volley back Um, and now I mean there's complete transparency here The trustees put their proposal out the select board now have put their response out And uh, and here's a discussion that's happening right now, and I don't think you should Stop it for some procedural objection Yay, holy cow Excuse me So your hand's up again Your hand's still up. Where is it? You're not sorry. Okay. Um I feel that we have to I mean the the we have to react and we have to react. Um, do we need to do we need to I have a vote to go into Of course, we haven't won that we're gonna have a vote or we I don't know you can't roll it without the warning, right So I guess I'm not really sure. Well, how about if we don't we're not negotiating We're just listening to the trustees response to our proposition No, no nothing You know like not making a ta. We're not doing anything. We're just so we know what else we have to work on Before we do an actual vote Did that Does that work? So if we could just hear their response To what we have, you know, hand to them because we they gave us their their request We've discussed it and we have a response But if we don't negotiate anything we just hear their thoughts on our response We're technically not I think you're just splitting hairs I think I think I don't think you have to agree to anything tonight But the parameters of what needs to be discussed Um For instance the last statement by the village president Actual cost versus something to make a profit I I think the answer is relatively simple At least in my world We don't necessarily set up Budgets to make a profit, but when we do have vacancies Throughout the year it does in some cases Create a surplus and then the question is what do you do with the surplus? If someone else is paying a percentage of the cost That all can be worked out I think you I think you knew Over two months ago that the village put out a proposal and that they were asking you to respond I don't think it's a shock to anybody That you were doing this and having a discussion It may lead to an agreement But that's something that could then be Discussed as well. I know that there are several people in the town Who are against you talking anything to the village? But you're the select board you have taken your oath to protect And defend the entirety of the community as it is now And what it may become in the future. How are you going to do that? If you can't talk about it And that Mr. Chair I was it for the people in the audience you are only to speak when you are acknowledged by the chair I will turn to the town attorney if you feel any different than what you just opined I thought that this evening was to see where We were at as far as what Issues we could agree on and which issues we disagree on and then we move forward from there My whole concept about ta was that we have to come to an agreement And i'm sure that the select board and the trustees will hear from their constituencies After tonight's meeting to say yeah, i'm okay with the police. I'm not okay with whatever But that's all we're doing tonight We're not Negotiating a contract. We're seeing where we stand with respect to the issues that the trustees laid out And what the select board said in response Right using the input we got from them multiple public forums we held So and or any other Yeah Evan were you gonna jump in yeah, I was just gonna say if you don't you know with your comment Internally we did mention if I understand you Because the police department tends to have at least a vacancy during the year We do not budget necessarily in the future when we have A contract with you we find some way Um at the end of the year to discuss What created a surplus in the police department if there is one and then what do we do with those funds? Uh when you're you know, maybe We address we address that as part of the contract Does that sound about right So I just want to make sure I'm understanding that surplus would be addressed in the contract and Along that line. I was also going to go back to revenue Um that revenue and surplus would then go towards both the city and the town To reduce the overall cost for both the city and the town, correct? like that's Technically we use revenue as part of the actual budget Um, and if it exceeds what we're doing but expenses also exceed It ends up being somewhere in the middle. It's usually just vacant positions That that end up being the determinant if there's an overall cost savings And one of the things sarah macy had said To me and a private thing is as we go through the end of the year In the last quarter, we have a very relatively good idea where we might land That's when we would do some some fourth quarter pairing of what cost is To our contract Yes, figure that out I guess at the end of the day you will not be paying for something you're not getting I I believe we're saying the same things. Yep. Um, do you have another comment? I was just gonna say that there's no reason why you can't have in a contract a true up at the end of the year The books are open. They're public records um, you know Republic entities, there'll be two public entities Yep Uh, with regards to um, the advisory board. Yes, that makes sense. Um When we had talked about this, uh, the intent was to not jump ahead of Uh, of our racial equity racial justice group The intent was to just make sure that it is going to be a part of it So Frankly, I don't know how that should best be worded. But again, I think we're on the same page ultimately of We want this, uh, we want this to happen And so I believe as long as that is addressed, um, then we would be fine Okay, okay So I may I may have I did I I don't remember if the document, uh, included the comment that the since the police department is a town department that the Select board would have jurisdiction over that advisory board and would establish it as it sees fit would likely, uh, participation from the city as a contract If we, you know, assuming we close the contract So are you specifically in that? Thank you I didn't see in the document and maybe I missed it. Um Wasn't in there, but it is what we've Discussed right is that it's since it's a town department Yes, we would we would likely have a seat or some seats We would have to you know, as part of part of our understanding, you know, wanting to understand what this advisory board responsibility is Um, what what it's, you know, what its responsibilities are and so forth uh But our intent would do yes have a seat for a city resident assuming we have a contract with the city Um, at least one seat. I don't know. I mean we we those those those are the part of the details that we don't You know, we're not going to make just make something up. Um and put it in a contract Good Yeah, I think You know that work and pat can speak to this better because he's on the specifically the task force dealing with policing and the oversight committee as part of the dei work, but I think the idea would be that you know whatever make up the Combined task force comes up with if it's you know, ideally there would be Some equal representation from the village and again, this is just an advisory committee sort of a A channel for the public to interact with the police department to provide feedback to provide, you know That's my understanding of it. So I think the intention is to say You know, there'll be a couple Let's two or three from the town outside the village two or three from the village You know and part of the impetus in my head is like look, you know, this is This is overseen by the town who no long who no longer has a village resident on its board Some of that policing is going to be quite different in the village so it'd be nice to have some Village residents whatever number is equal to whatever the town is in that in that advisory task force or whatever it's going to be To to just provide that input back to the police department like there would be no I wouldn't imagine that this would have any authority whatsoever except that It's a channel That is my understanding of When I brought this up a couple months ago when we talked about it but again What the dei task force comes up with racial equity task force comes up with I I don't know yet but That that's sort of the thinking, you know a channel for for village specific or city specific concerns, excuse me To to get to the police department and the board and your board So andrew is it a sticking point for the for the new city to have Verbiage in the contract around this advisory board Because I think we're looking to not have The advisory board is part of the contract um I Uh I would like to see it I'd like to see the police department have it um I just don't know how best to word it in a contract that doesn't bind us from defining membership In terms of even numbers of of members But rather if there could be like a place folder that's depending upon the outcome of um the the task forces um work That then this uh This advisory committee would be established I'm not trying to again rush that at all And maybe the attorneys in the room have a better idea as to how to have a place folder and if that's even a possible thing That's got his hand up. Yeah, if I can really quickly like roge mentioned Uh To be frank, I think that we're maybe a little premature to put anything about this into the contract It's definitely something that the diversity equity group is discussing and has discussed with our police chief But really in the concept of working with him To you know, and he would help create the advisory group, you know kind of see part of that but To be frank, it's nowhere near contract ready. Um, you know, it's honestly It's it's months down the road. Um I would Personally recommend while we all I think have agreement here in our two boards That this is extremely important that I don't think that it necessarily needs to be in the contract just because We don't know what it's going to look like yet. I would hesitate to put it in there but I feel good with What our community has done so far with the dei work that I don't think it necessarily needs to be in a contract I I think that We're working towards that anyway trustees, um What are your thoughts? is this uh Is this a must Or is this something that we can live without George, why don't you go ahead? Sure in my in my observation over the last six months. I would say both boards um want This kind of influence on the police department staff wants it the police department wants it I believe it'll get in there one way or another. I don't think it has to be in the contract I I'm gonna jump in I I'm looking you know for me This is this is the racial equity task force and this is city input And feedback and a method for the city to provide and have a channel directly To how it's being policed I think it's very important that the city has a way to communicate and provide feedback and have input into how How we're being policed under this contract not just with the select board We're not going to have any seats on the oversight board. It's just by contract. It doesn't have to be in the contract. I guess I'm just one trustee, but that's that's kind of my Purpose for having it's over and above whatever the racial equity task force comes back with it can serve the same purpose But it's sort of intended to be um That If I'm alone on that I don't want to hold this up I I think George is right. I think I think this work will continue and if that's the if it's the racial equity Framework that it continues under and that's better than nothing So I think I'm Amber did you want to jump in at all or? okay So I think I'm hearing that for now um We would like this but not to have this be the the issue which stops any kind of agreement um We again, this is a what was it uh bill you use a tentative agreement So uh Yeah, let's move on from this for now um Okay, you want to talk about finance next I the only other piece in the policing one that I wanted to go back to was that concept of um a separate contract for Uh for events Um, would just be interested to see the the details of what that would mean Is is flexibility to go to other organizations for special events something that the Trustees haven't or the the city would have any interest in I would want to defer to um Maybe our our manager or police chief to better understand what that would actually mean In terms of what those services would look like Uh, I think one of the questions was Not so much so just just to lay it on the table The cve events there there is no one else who will take on that work We've tried to get other agencies to get involved in in cve events Uh, we end up being the agency of record and the agency For the plan so that's one thing um There's a misperception about the police. It's like well They're they're getting overtime and you just pay people to do this stuff Well, no you actually have to have the police in your department to be able to give someone overtime So they get paid the overtime, but they're there and they do the work and that's they do a great job the separate part is From the select board stance that i'm just Laying this is if there is a service that The village wants that is not a normal service That is provided say townwide or villagewide Such as crossing at five corners They would look for that piece to be Delineated as a separate cost in the contract Because it's not something that they provide Anywhere else and it's manpower women power hours That are taking up resources That's one of them and then if there are other special events that Would include things like um so like if um Let's just say the two communities do out and about together For many years to come There's no extra cost because it's the police doing both communities Of an event But if there was another event Let's say a 5k run In the village that the village asked for police coverage And it cost money Beyond say a certain amount Then They would want something in the contract that addresses Those special types of events that only one side Is looking to do Did I did I catch that of what you guys mentioned it? So I just think If If one side starts doing a bunch of special events They would want something in the contract that addresses police protection and police services in special events And so I would assume that that goes both ways Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah Great, great. Um, so unless I missed anything on police Uh, Brett I just wanted to comment, you know, I'll be curious on that language Um, you know in rereading, um, the chief's memo, I think You start walking this fine line about oversight of the department You know, if all of a sudden, you know, we've we've already seen the sx experience is having more events or they've been doing their Wednesday night series I just think you you start to really nickel and dime each other and it becomes an administrative nightmare to try and track those man hours You know, if we're going to cover the double e events on Wednesday nights, and then we're going to, you know, cover Certain events in the village. I think you start to Um, obstruct or challenge the chief's ability to successfully manage the department So, you know, I think having some language in there But just being really clear about when it when it actually is triggered Okay Go ahead, George Uh, yeah along the same lines as Brett just said, I I'll get but I'll get specific I think hundreds of school kids crossing five corners routinely twice a day throughout the school year It's not a special event And I think right now with the trustees said, hey, we we don't want any we don't want the police to show up there I the police would say no, we need to be there. That's a that's a that's a public safety issue We need to have police there. It's not a special event. Um, I I don't want I'm not saying I wouldn't want to hold up the whole contract or any negotiations on it, but I'd like you to reconsider that I think there are routine public safety issues in the town and the village Uh, that you can't get into as brad said, nickel and dining and saying, well, what what is routine and what is not routine? I think um, you're you're maybe trying to drop to find a point on that particular one Thank you, george Are there other points on the police department anything from the select board? We're set Finance okay, so finance is another department which is highly dependent on it and other supports. Um Again here, we would like to look at the complete cost similar to the way the police department would be handled um regarding a city manager influence on uh hiring same situation where The city manager may be consulted, but the town employees Would be you know, town hires would be at the full discretion of the town manager um also We'd like more and clearer understanding of the proposed New employee or employees and or their and their training What's the expectation there from the town? Um, and then also we Uh had a lot of discussion about um city clerk and the treasurer And we'd like to have some clear understanding of what the city's intention there is This with with possible discussion of continuing to share those for some period of time anything okay With the I'll go in a kind of reverse order with the clerk treasurer Susan McNamara hill had sent an email a while ago saying that um You uh a separate municipality Would really need to have a separate clerk and would need to be able to have a separate treasurer from day one So going off of that recommendation From our own clerk That's why we were not looking to share uh clerk for treasurer at that point I'm that's why we're not looking to share the clerk for treasurer So, uh, I believe there was some follow-up to that and some additional questions were asked and if your charter says that you Uh appoint your clerk and your treasurer you can appoint anyone So you could appoint someone who's also the clerk and treasurer of the town So we're not the clerk wouldn't in our charter isn't a uh a city council appointed position, but is a professional position And so it wouldn't come to us to appoint so it's uh Is it a it's a hired position not an elected position The clerk yeah appointed so So it's elect. It's not elected not elected. So you're okay. So you could hire you could write you could hire the same person Uh, no, we're we're looking to we'd be hiring our own Just said you could and so if you're choosing not to then that's that's I guess your your choice Okay Right, right. I'm saying that we'd be hiring based on the recommendation from Susan McNamara Hill that we're we'd be hiring our own clerk But I thought you had said that that was based on the fact that it wasn't allowed to Have the same That's that's the question. I maybe I'm answering the wrong question. I thought the I thought the The Assertion was that The clerk from from another municipality cannot be your your clerk In my understanding that if your charter as you say it does is a an appointed position you could Appoint but it sounds like you're choosing not to without So then with the finance one in general It's quite different from what we had proposed in the sense that What we were talking about with the proposal is that Through the transition period as it was requested from from staff That that transition period would be a truly shared finance department In that the oversight of the departments. So oversight being the finance director and the assistant director Wouldn't have a shared cost with the city In parts given how the finance director really is responsible for the the village or the city's Finances audits the directions of how money transfers hands That's something that The city should really have some level of of Authority with some level of Trust with and not just contracted out with With an accounting firm Which What the proposal from the select board sounds like is it's essentially Why not just contract with a accounting firm? So it's a pretty opposite philosophy here We're treating this the same as we are treating at the police department where you would be contracting us to do your finance work for you But is right you have the same the same constraints there with regard to Can you can a department that serves a town have Two bosses or whatever. You know, it's the same It's no different than the police department where you know Andrew, I think you went through the various scenarios and you came down to the fact that the only really way to do it to have access to Essex police services is to do it by contract. Why is this any different? The difference with this one is it's only for that transitional period So we had talked before about again at sarah's request that there was only there was a four or five year time period Where we share to allow for the unwinding Whereas the police contract we're talking about a long term, you know, potentially self renewing contract um, so there's a They're pretty different in that sense So if you're no longer residents of the town, how do we share? Without what's the legal the legal mechanism that we can Share a department. I don't know. I maybe bill can comment. I don't know if we have a common shared department between two municipalities Yeah, it's the same reason the same reason we went to a contract situation with the police Well, I think there's a couple issues at work here, Andy and one is whether the The new municipalities charter will call for the election of the clerk or the appointment of the clerk and If it calls for The election of the clerk. I think it has to be a resident of the new municipality, but if they can contract bill we're talking about the finance department now I think we've resolved the clerk and treasurer question This is a question about sharing the I'm sorry. Yeah Well, I guess this was only for the transitional period like Andrew said and I think it the legislature blesses it for the transitional period Then it can happen. I don't understand. I guess I I lost the question here I think I think Andrew's concern is I as I my comment about the town employees are hired by the town manager and the city manager has no say in Who we hire for for that shared department. Is that the concern Andrew? Andrew is that the concern? Can you hear me? Can you restate it? I think I lost the I think I cut out for a moment. Yeah Either that or I was leaning away from the microphone instead of toward it. Um, because I'm talking to my computer instead of the mic So Andrew, I guess I guess trying to get clarification on what your concern here is is your question about When I stated that the city manager would only be advisory with regard to hiring of Members of the finance department since if they're town employees that you're concerned or is your concern But I guess what is your concern? there there's a few One of One yes one being that that oversight The person who is responsible for finances For our organization needs to have some kind of recourse of if there's a mistake if there's fraud if there's what have you Our our city manager would need to be able to To take some kind of action or our city council need to take some kind of action In that sense and by having that that oversight would would provide it it's also It's also that when it comes time to ensure that The auditing that the oversight of our books When those are conducted and when it's overseen that having it be done by an employee and an employee that we share the costs of There's some additional benefits there as compared to Again just contracting with a cpa firm Can I ask a question? Where is the idea of contracting with a cpa firm coming from? That seems like your interpretation of what the proposal says Yes, that in essence, this is no different than contracting for any other service If I wanted to contract for janitorial, so it would go making a connection, but okay He's saying cpa, but he's meaning that means the the town department. Yeah And I mean this this came from the recommendation of sarah who is our our finance professional And so trying to align with what our professionals tell us is in best practice is is the other concern I mean because frankly that this helps to support that transitional time period Which I we don't need to do It was asked of us to do it. We don't need to Yeah, I guess we've got to think about this more andrew Figure out what the right questions are to ask to understand how this works I don't know how you would have an employee who was hired by Two managers I mean, I'm not sure if bill or claudine if either of you have thoughts you wanted to share now on that So andrew is your concern that the city manager will not have input into the hiring of or the oversight of the finance director That's a big part of it. Yes And what's the rest? Helping to support that transition time period and helping to ease in that transition um I suppose that with the the oversight that would probably be the biggest portion of it And that the rest of it would probably trickle from there and I think the the select board's concern is that you would then have sarah answering to two masters and One saying I need this as soon as possible and the other the city manager saying No, I I've already given given sarah priority list and so Where does where does sarah go from there? And it's very similar to what we have with evan We are living in that world now and I I assume we could live in that world again for a A few years to help support the transition Which if if the transition is important then This is what we're looking for Legally speaking. I don't just to chime and I don't think there's any issue from a legal perspective about sharing In this way and dual dual management of the individual's role So from a legal perspective, I don't think that's a problem. It sounds like the debate here is wonder whether there's a willingness to To manage that jointly and to and to share that Administrative responsibility of oversight That doesn't seem like a it's not a legal issue. I guess From my perspective, I don't see a legal problem here I agree with that. It was more practical I agree with my legal colleagues that I don't see a legal issue That was supposed to be a joke, but what I do is what I I think there is just The tough part is the two masters the two bosses and which one Which one is sara listen to she's gonna try to listen to both um, I just think there there needs to be Just something that is acknowledged about the two And how that's gonna work. I think it's it's something we want Which is we want You know a transition period We want, you know to be able to If if that is the case unwind and unwind responsibly it's just Um, it is very hard to work for two boards. I'm gonna tell you that Um, I love spending several nights a week with all of you Not easy And it gets even tougher when you're not going in the same direction And if there's two separate You know Timelines um Two separate budgets two separate things those those are gonna add to Some friction, but All It is what the town select board would like is is the transition. So I think in this case It's something that I think is best nuanced And and certainly work with sara On how she feels that will be work workable Does that sound okay? I think so. Uh, I do see some hands from george and raj Okay, uh, I'll go first. Actually, you want to go you want to jump in? Did you go? Were you there first? Okay I'll just cut to the chase and say because If this happens the transitional period the folks Uh in the driver seats would be evan and sara and people we know and talk I'd be okay with that. Uh, if we were talking about bringing in new people I'd I'd be I'd get Want to get more into the conceptual, but I think right here we can deal with things on the personal level and I'd be I'd be okay. It's just speaking entirely for myself Uh for a transition period That you This would be acceptable. Um, I so that's finally I don't know I think I got a little confused because it sounded like someone was talking about having to be a permanent condition where we would have Uh, uh, where we would permanently contract with the town to have a finance to use town finance office And I would like I would like to uh suggest everybody think how down the road how complicated that would be because you're getting into issues Billing and budgetary issues long term I don't think it would I don't think the town would be happy Sooner or later, I think they would not like that situation and I don't think the new city would but I think for a transition period It's fun. I don't have a problem with speaking entirely Thank you Briefly, I'll I'll say I co george's comments and just say that um, I'm wondering if there's some sort of framework Um, simple framework we can develop to to to manage that situation between the two boards, you know, what is there a is there a simple framework or a process that um, we could develop together quickly to handle any Issues that might arise and join management, but I think for a limited period of time I think we can make that work The slack word off to go back and consider what what what uh, you want to do there? Um, the other pieces of this where we talked about the fact that there's it support There's similar to police department where there's other Functions that have to be done to support I finance that are not in the finance strictly in the finance budget So with those, you know, uh, the city would have where you'd have our own it um, I just want to go back to that list You know, we'd have our own workers comp we'd have our own hr um Really what we're talking about is is the brain power Um, but but our our finance director can't access your hr Well, if we share the person that'll be ugly. Wow two hr situations too I'm not sure I would say that I don't want to assume but maybe that's That's a uh An attorney kind of question that could be ironed out another point in time But again, it's it's going back to the if we're sharing of a person To do the finance the finance of Of the city, you know, we would have our own financial system um If there's a period of time where we are sharing that one system Then yes, we would pay for the things that we need and we would use But we haven't gotten to that level of detail as to whether from day one Are we having our own nem rick account or whatever whatever it is that they use? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, uh, I'm We have to think about how it would work So if I understand that comment Andrew, it's if And I'm just trying to understand it if The city were to be purchasing its own software During the transition period and providing its own it support Uh during the transition then that would be a cost Not to be added into the service But if the town was doing it For however long of the interim period Then that would be acceptable until such time As you're transitioning out and into your own So for instance The idea that sarah posed was there's currently five Uh persons in the finance department. She's actually recommending six Eventually three are going to go to the village three would stay with the town If I understood that correctly In what and what she's saying Currently only one employee of the finance department is not a town employee Uh, do I have that correct Greg? Functionally, yes, there's some shared cost As far as um, but in general one is in the village Budget and is controlled by village Um benefits and other things Okay So if for three let's say two or three years there's this transition period you're sharing finance It's really a question of Just some of the details but right now As constituted Most of them are town employees That would be shared with the village The village would pay some fee Based upon that and then as you transition out Some of those other costs would go with it too Because they're transitioning out and becoming village employees and That's how I understand it and at some point The village is going to have to purchase And run its own software right its own systems For whether they buy the same All budget software as we're currently using or decide to go a different way They could do that they're going to have to talk to their finance director and finance team About what software they're going to run The reason why well, you know for anybody watching we're not terribly happy with NEMRIC It is inexpensive But it's a very old and clunky software system But it's also the one the state uses for appraisal And other things so it is you're like Uh Anything but it but it caused costs a lot of money to switch out of it So at some point the village may decide hey, we're starting a new a new village a new city Let's not go with this old crappy clunky NEMRIC And or maybe in three years NEMRIC realizes there's a whole thing called the cloud And upgrades its software I think it sounds like it sounds like you got it Evan. Yeah Not to be rude, but we're getting to 11 o'clock. Gotcha So Clarification is it the intent that the finance director and the assistant finance director Would be part-time employees of both the city and the town Could could I clarify? Sorry. Could I clarify that Andrew? I think that's a great question. So that's the challenge Really, this is about sharing financial leadership And so it's the the director and assistant director by the end of fy 23 There are going to be two finance employees in the village and two finance employees in the town And then the town also employs the leadership, which is the director and assistant director Those are the ones that need to be shared and this is how it's different than police, you know Not only is it a transitional department But there will be an actual village department with village employees And that's the intent of of sharing that finance director so they can provide oversight to those employees not as A town only employee that the village has no say in but somebody that has influence From the village or from the city And also this, you know, this person will ultimately be be responsible for the oversight of those employees and the And the books in the village and that's why the city wants to have Some say and oversight But that doesn't really answer the Overall question. I mean you're talking about not wanting to share costs and instead Having those portions be in your own hr and supported by your own it So is is that also relevant to not only the two employees that would only be on the village But also the director and the assistant director Because if you're talking about employing Those two positions half time it means part-time employee for the city part-time employee for the town and what ramifications does that have For those two people in those positions Right and that's exact that's exactly why they need to the proposal is that they stay town employees because they already are And and so it makes sense for them to continue to be full-time continue to receive benefits Not to split up their duties because you know part-time employees don't get benefits etc So that's why it just makes sense to kind of leave those employees where they're at Um and continue to employ them full-time and and get those contributions for a share from the city That I was getting confused by just saying finance and thinking of all the finance rather than The deviation so thank you Great clarifications. We certainly don't have them become employees And and so Andrew your expectation is that day one you're going to turn on it for finance and the town is not going to have to do anything to help bring it up Or transfer any transfer any data from town I I don't know I have not gotten into that level of depth with with sarah Um or nor have we heard that level of detail from it. So I don't know at what point in time The city would have its own finance Software from day one. We would have our own it. We would have our own it management we would have our own hr management So those would but in terms of the So the it costs we're talking about of the it costs that that we would incur before you're able to Move all of your transactions and everything or whatever over to your own system Right so as as Evan was saying if we If we would need to use it then yes, we should pay for it Okay, all right All right, thank you Yeah Was there anything else on finance that we hadn't touched on? um the there's the So we're only talking about one additional employee in this scenario if it works the way it's been proposed And that would be a village employee Yes Is are there expectations from the town to provide training for that individual? There may be There's it's a shared finance team. So that person's going to be brought on at the end of fy of this next of fy 23 And then sarah and her team will integrate that person just like any other employee There's a cost associated with doing that I think it's in the general shared duties of the shared leadership staff that you both are are paying for That the town specific finance employees will not be responsible or tasked for say but but again, this is So a shared Go ahead. Sorry Sorry It's a shared department for the next four years in theory. And so I think under sarah's purview She will get that employee trained end up to speed. However is deemed the most efficient way to do that But in a scenario where separation was not occurring We would not be hiring a sixth employee would not have to do that work to train them and integrate no that No, that's not true. Fy 23 sarah has already been planning to budget for this finance person to round out her team to be a six person team That's happening regardless of anything else That that's already in in her fy 23 budget and plans to hire in the spring of 23 you've seen the before we have Yeah, we don't know that we don't know that yeah I mean, she's she's previewed this long before that that her plan was to bring on an additional employee In the village budget Oh in the village Yeah, it's a village employee Right the new staff members of village village staffer Just to deal with the workload All right, I'll have to think about what that means. Okay Yeah, so, uh, sorry. Yeah, I just been pointed out to me that we're past 11 o'clock and that's a select board policy That we have to have a unanimous vote to continue beyond 11 um Do we so we need to do a little trivia here? um What's the select board's pleasure? Do we want to uh Have a motion to uh extend to a specific time or We want to make want to make it indefinite If I could propose andy, uh, if we could start by saying 11 30 With appreciation. I actually skipped dinner to come here. So I have not eaten yet since okay by Lunch, right? So if we could check in with us again at 11 30 and see how we're doing. I'm okay with that Go ahead and make the motion. Uh, I've motioned that the select board continue the august 23rd meeting to 11 30 p.m Thanks pat. Thanks. Uh, I think I'll give that to tracy Uh, any further discussion? All those in favor if we say aye. Aye. Okay vote was unanimous. We'll continue to 11 30 and then we'll revisit the question If we're not done Sorry All right, anything else about finance I don't we sell not from the trustees anymore. If you wanted to go to reappraisal next Um, when we get to that point Same reason bill ellis is talking is he's advising So so we're going to go back to the meeting you Uh, reappraisal fund, uh town prefers that we Have a common reappraisal and distribution of the remaining funds if it's legal to do so After the fact Pretty much it we we'd much preferred to Have you continue with our assessor to get us through this a likely upcoming Reassessment, I think that this one can be possibly a quick one given what's in our our I think reading file about the Reassessment coming in 2022 We're not going to be it should separation pass in november. It's not going to be done through the legislature by then anyway And so we would still be Uh Village properties would still be town residents and as such would be housed under that reappraisal process I don't think that's what that memo says. Does that memo say there's going to be a reappraisal next year? Is that just a warning that it's coming soon? I think it has to be well, basically what it says is once you reach the 85 or below You are subject to reappraisal. You get put in the queue You go out to rfp. It will probably start The following year and could take two To three years to complete But that's the process but we are right at the threshold Or likely to be right at the threshold of the 85% CLA And one of the things if you're talking about the burlington experience they went They had wild swings in their CLA and The concern is the longer you go the more out of whack Your your assessed value is to the Equalized value, which is the 85 the worst they the state wants it to get is 85 Um, so It looks like by the end of this year when the state comes out With their number, we are going to be right around the 85 mark We would recommend doing it and getting it on the books that we're going to get it done Put out the rfp and try to get the process started in I think what year in Somewhere in the year 22 Or early 23 to start Because there's only a certain amount of appraisal of companies that the state allows to do the work Take it for what it's what say andrew we didn't I didn't hear what you I saw your mouth. No, I didn't hear you Sorry, I just said that I saw roger's handles up. Just trying to recognize that So then if that starts late 22 early 23, how long does it take? Oh About two two and a half years. Okay. So then and but if I could finish The the appraisal work is done But then you have objections And you've got people who can appeal that process takes a little while longer But the actual work is done before that All right, so my question quickly is that you could have city residents appealing to a town assessor that is not their assessor And now they how would that the board of abate And if you step right you would have to have your own board of abate. All right So I just wanted to check that process to make sure I understood that if Go ahead. Sorry the appeal goes to the board. Okay And maybe for clarification everything that the assessor does It's done by state statute and state process The state also over over I'm sorry If I'm reading her email correctly the state reviews the work as well so Again, I don't want to cut you off evan, but I'm just I'm cognizant of the time and again If the select board may adjourn in 20 minutes. I want to see if we can get through this I think that's If the so if the town were to oversee the reassessment process or the reappraisal process, I'm fine with that You're about to start it. You've already got the money. So I would say go forth Yeah, we may need to think about the the ramifications of a separation happening in the middle of the process though which which is is Not not not something I guess we need to put contracts around before we get to that point Right And Here's the go we shared an abatement board with the village and and they The village abatements came to us and we've held them separately from A town abatement. So what could be done that way Andrew? I have a train going by right now. So I don't think I can talk much Okay, you want to go to senior services next? Okay, I saw a thumb up there. Uh, so uh The select board doesn't want to pay 50 percent for space that can be used for other city purposes We'd likely Want to find that our own space for a senior senior center, we'd be happy to share it with you Should should we you know do that if you if you're interested but The the terms that were suggested by the trustees of paying 50 percent of the space But then the city retaining the ability to use as much of the time of that space is they chose to Didn't work for us So if the If I understand the concern, I think this it sounds like the concern is paying for a space when it's not being used for that purpose Um, I'm sure that that's something we could figure out where The cost of the senior services to The town Would be for the time that it's being used for senior purposes If you'd prefer to Not figure that out, but rather have your own senior services and that's totally fine I would just say that uh, I don't think it makes much sense then for us to Give up the existing senior center and not use it for that purpose So I would say the the city we would just create our own And then we just wouldn't share senior services Do you want to access to the senior bus though if we continue it? It's a it's a solvable problem. We can create our own I'd rather I'd rather ensure that the seniors we've promised over the years have access to that To that building to that facility and to those services and if we have to create it we can If you want to share it happy to do it The comment any comments from the board Anything wrong there? That's what we talked about. All right Is he george in this hand up? Yeah, I very quickly, um, you know I I think we heard a lot. I think the seniors are a vulnerable population Um, I would really urge uh to please just this particular this particular issue Let's find a way to share it. We're not seeking to take advantage of the town I don't think the town's going to be seeking to take advantage of the city I would like to give reassurance to our seniors That that they're not going to lose their existing services due to local politics I'd urge us to find a way around this What we if there's a concern about Sharing the space and not not getting what you're paying for I'm sure we can work it out unless you've got the town is some immediate plan to create its own senior center I would say this is not a huge issue Please let's find a way to, you know, just work this out and not have this become Divided or a situation where the seniors could lose their existing services Because of local politics So I don't know if it's a very general statement and you're trying to get specific But I think the details of this can be worked out. I think you've got willing parties on both sides You had a comment I did George, I think you're absolutely right But I do want to comment that the senior center does Have problems associated with it that we are trying to work through now Staffing certainly not the least of them you heard about our senior bus problems, but You know, telto has been known before the senior center closed that sometimes elderly individuals will get just simply placed there They need more attention Which is why You heard talk earlier tonight about moving towards more kind of a holistic volunteer Seniors, you know, who are they are putting programs on for other seniors. It's just, you know, it's It had the danger I think even before covid of becoming a senior Daycare, which is not what the town was in the process of putting so I agree george But there's a lot of hurdles about this in particular You know the driving the availability of availability of people who are going to be reliable enough to be there So it's I just I want to be careful about us over promising even if we both have a desire which we obviously do To keep senior services, you know robust in our towns. It's just our will Doesn't necessarily translate to results and I want to be extremely careful since it came up this evening that We can both really want What's best for senior services, but the reality is we may not have staffing to do it And I don't think it's going to be quite as easy as just we want to roll up our sleeves and get it done It's just we we have some serious issues About running the senior center and so it's more complex than that Thanks Pat Anything else about seniors? All right, we've got 13 minutes for indian brook um The the current fee structure for indian brook access doesn't doesn't cover the full cost of the park The select board is willing to consider resident access to the park Or city residents if the new city agrees to continue supporting capital contributions associated with the park as well as payments to support operational and maintenance and water control costs um As a reciprocity the select board would like to re would like to request resident access to all ejrp programming um including pre-k child care You know access and and pricing resident access and resident pricing for In trade for access to indian brook park So when I When I read this or when I hear that what I hear is If we do this in the city It would cost us more to use indian brook than it would for a resident of milton cold chest or jericho or canada um as They now have access to it as well Um and in addition to then paying more We would then need to lose out on revenue by allowing uh non-city residents to access uh ej our own recreation programs for city costs so I hear a lot of city paying and We don't get anything different Unless I'm missing something So you're you're you're commenting that uh non-residents can pay a day pass that's going to be less expensive you're saying than uh Then a season pass, right? Yes, plus, uh Plus the taxes associated with supporting the capital got you Yep I I understand you know use I don't want to say using I can't think of a different word. It's getting late But I understand thinking of this as you know indian brook and recreation are very similar But they're they're different and they're pretty significantly different in that sense Go ahead pat about just a quick question. Um, the new rates at indian brook Um, I mean obviously day passes themselves are available But the idea was that we would have you know the ability to get the season pass And I thought that the price difference was actually going to be significant Or at least significantly more than it was previous this we had individuals from colchester coming and saying You know access to just buying day pass after day pass after day passes. Just you know, they said it would be prohibitive for them Um, so I'm just not sure if we're taking into account some of the new rates that are at indian brook that we approved That two months ago now something like that Yeah, but it's not my understanding that those new rates still don't don't don't include the You know the cost of dam repair in the future or I'm not an expert. I'm not even I'm not even a neophyte in the rates At indian brook, so I don't even know what that but the rates that we charge for indian brook Do not cover any capital for the property Or very little if it's But it's not the dam and it's certainly not any parking lot and it's not anything else But I have no idea what what the rates are set at That brad was in more of a meeting than I was. Yeah, so the the For one the annual pass only covers from april until october Uh, it's 20 for a specific car if you want to flex pass where you can bring multiple cars if you're a resident It's 30. There's a I think it's a $10 adder to bring your dog Um, I think it might be limited to two dogs Um, the daily rates, I can't remember whether they're $5 or $10 and there's an adder for a dog on that as well. So um, maybe we need to Revisit this question thinking along the lines of Yeah, it makes that makes no sense for you to necessarily I guess to uh Well, you'd be paying the same as what an s6 town resident would be paying Which means right I it cost me more to go to that park than that cost so many from no one already Well, that's why it says that resident and it always has that always has been the case because previously a annual pass was It was it was about two dollars for two years or something like that. It was a it only actually paid for the cost of the card itself I think and so Today you're paying more for access to indian book than somebody from you know, or prior to these new rates. Yes We were all paying more because we had Uh, it's it's not an enterprise phone up there. Um, it's supported by taxes so Yeah, unfortunately if you want I guess if you want resident rates, you got to pay resident taxes too Which i'm hearing you don't like You have another way you want us to look at that Yeah, I don't think we're gonna agree to write giving you a less. Yeah, that's that's it's an odd situation go ahead rush Yes, it depends on how much you want access to ejrp programming I mean You know, I'm not saying that's an official offer But if you you're it's right there in the sentence if you want access to resident rates and access to ejrp programming vacation camps all of that then That seems to be It's in your proposal. That's all i'm saying. So, you know, forget the extra fees for the capital and the improvements if you want to make that trade for perpetual resident rates for indian brook for access to ejrp for your families, which I think we heard a lot of over the last three forums and that's one way to do it. I suppose i'm not I don't know how the rest of the trustees feel about that, but I mean from from my perspective Uh to offer ejrp programming including the pre-k child care at village rate at village slash city rates um, I'd want to know what we're getting ourselves into from a financial standpoint uh To better quantify what that means um Because again to to give that up to then pay more for something else I just That's us paying a lot and not getting anything in return Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't I wasn't if you're not if you're speaking to what I said I wasn't suggesting we could continue to pay their suggested capital Rates and all that stuff is yeah, but you're right. Absolutely. All right. We're here. We heard what you're saying there so before we Before again, the only other thing I just want to say is um You know, we could have gone further tonight Uh, I think that Given the timeline we have for that vote if what the select board is only willing to do is in all or nothing kind of agreements That's what I think I heard earlier of all these items need to be ironed out We don't have a lot of time and so our boards really need to be willing to have these conversations um, and get into this detail without Uh, having other agenda items interfere here So are you talking about uh agenda item f which is next next meeting topics? I think we've got some proposals we can go through All right, so we go through the rest of these Proposes so next meeting is september 20, right? If it'd be possible to get any of those ta's written up um That would be greatly appreciated. So that way we'd have those documented Uh, similarly if we could if we could figure out how to uh make formal decisions on those items Um, that would also be appreciated. So that way we'd know whether we we finished something I can't commit to having a completed Contract proposal for any of these items by the 20th. We only have one meeting between now and then The meeting on the 13th, right? But what I'm saying is if we discuss it on the 13th, there's no other meeting to tweak it So other other things that that are that need to be discussed at some point Um, if we're on topics for next uh Meeting cannabis had been on the schedule on the count on this uh agenda, but it was dropped The update from staff by then and we we there needs to be a You know the town at least needs to vote by town meeting day if we want to vote If you don't want to have it as a joint discussion I guess we don't have to but uh We'd like to Include a local options tax discussion in parallel with it Which I'm not sure we can do separately because we share a zip code Yeah, I think that I think what we need to figure out there's a question from the trustees about uh, whether We can vote On cannabis given that we are a village within within the town And if we can then we need to figure out how we would do that to align with the town meeting day requirements Since we don't currently have a vote scheduled That our vote would be april which would be past the point So I think that it may make sense to It may make sense to talk jointly, but I think that um Andy maybe you me and evan can can kind of talk about that And there's this list of things we talked about at our strategic planning thing That was fun We've got we've got arpa dollars to talk about Do we had do we know yeah, sorry i'm scooching over too far here You know, there's there's I don't know. We can be ready to talk about arpa at all I don't know where that is. No, not not not yet. Not in the next two or three weeks or not Not in the next two or three weeks or not Uh, we we uh, we just this evening deferred additional discussion on the tree farm So that probably needs to keep up again, right? That one can wait a little bit though We need to we need to uh, I can't wait too long if we're gonna, you know, you know Our our our mo u says we were supposed to have these discussions in 2018 Four years ahead. Yeah, we're supposed to have discussions about renewing this contract four years ahead of the expiration not 14 months So anyway Uh, the other thing, uh, maybe I guess I've been uh, andrew you and I are gonna close this is uh Evan's evaluation Yeah Yeah, those are the those are the three month time frame ones So, uh, andy. I'm just realizing though we have bill and claudine here with us still. Um, I think we've finished the The uh negotiations or discussions on the shared services. I wonder if we can let them go That way someone can get to bed tonight. All right, so we also we also skipped another Sarah's not sitting out there waiting for us to talk about her line on budget night her. No, no, sarah was able to go to bed Yeah We uh, yeah, we skipped over Good night, claudine. Thank you. I envy you Well, we're we're already past 11 30 at this point, but we did we did miss, uh, the Fy 23 budget discussion in the agenda. They completely jumped over that one Is that uh We're here Other than then somebody hasn't eaten all day. I don't know does anybody have any mints in their pocket We've got a complete agenda item. We missed talking about well FY 23, I mean if you're willing to spend five more minutes, we're beyond We're beyond 11 30. I motion that the select board continue the august 23rd meeting until midnight All right, thank you pat. Thank you don any further discussion Those in favor, please say aye. Hi Can I ask the clarification? Yeah Is the village board trustee is part of any of that discussion until midnight? Yeah, FY 23. Yeah, this is Budget discussion. I forgot I drifted This is never mind We don't have sarah though, right I told sarah she can he could uh Take the rest of the night off about 10 o'clock and evan and I would fill in for so evan and I Can pretend to be sarah. We're not going to do a very good impression that we'll do our best We just want to hear what the priorities are of the of the joint board for the budget What what do you We mentioned You know, well, we suggest You put a local options tax on the on the ballot We do not Necessarily suggest that you budget for it That you budget any revenue Therefore if you do Put it in the state puts it into effect somewhere in mid-year You'll have a surplus and you guys can address it mid-year of what you want to do but that's a other other Items that you might be wanting us to look at As we put together the budget one of our comments will be The funding of inclusion equity and diversity Um In the budget again, whether it's use of surplus funds or an actual budgetary line item. I know the task force Has been asking And knows that the budget is coming. So there I'll be asking for the same Um, those are the types of things we would need to know So I guess I'll go ahead from from Um Look looking at the possibility of with separation and losing 42 percent of or 41 or 42 percent of the Tax base the Town is is facing either a large increase in taxes or a significant service cut One of the things that I'd like to see us do is continue with some tax equity work. I know there are Some who will object to that And the reason that I'd like to propose it is there's two reasons one is that it it If separation somehow fails We've moved closer to tax equity and the other is it It reduces the amount of the the the size of the step function that we would have later on All of that cost that's going to the Probably the taxes town taxes that are collected and and considered as revenues for the village would would then go away and stay in the town's budget. So it would continue toward tax equity and and They said reduce the the the step function at the end. So You know where where those funds are used we certainly up to up to a possible discussion um, I know we've we've over the past number of years shifted on the order of 150 to 250 000 a year, you know into the from the town budget into the village budget I don't know if there's any if there's a uh Others have a stomach for that or not Something I would be interested in Pursuing discussing any other joint things I think we should take a look at the mlu's and check the financial impact versus If it we separate or we don't separate how it's going to impact every all the decisions And more investments in energy efficiency And for the town my husband More investment in sidewalk plowing the empower and equipment If I also had mental health diversity training Yeah, we already I think the Trustees are having a discussion about your own priorities tomorrow. We had our discussion on this Our last meeting so We've already provided town specific ones. I can also tell you that I had to talk with the chief about uh, reprioritizing some things in the police department for Um, not only mental health but human services That are not directly As we talk about what are what are the things that We ask our police to do but are not very As good at that as others and not necessarily taking a position But working on contract services outside not just mental health but homelessness And other human services so we're looking at that In the police budget Especially since we have not been able to fill our full complement of officers But that is one of the items that we're looking at As well and the task the equity inclusion task force Is also wanting to take a look at how we structure the grant program for greater inclusion and breadth so We have a lot of departments that have been waiting on staffing We've heard the issues of trying to get Energy efficient vehicles. They don't currently make energy efficient cloud trucks And we don't have a lot of passenger vehicles But we can look at um, we wanted to start looking at adding more charging stations throughout the community We once two years ago We put the charging station here at town hall We including tonight by the chair Uh, we are seeing more usage We want to see more of that in the downtown Area as well while people are eating and enjoying the downtown they could be charging their electric vehicles um, so those are types of things and then also um, we really need to start getting after some stormwater Uh requirements that the state is putting on us both village and town Um, and then also in economic development recruiting and retaining companies Uh in the community. So if that all sounds good Andrew, are you the only one left? Did everyone else want to sleep and i'm getting ready to join them? Okay So, uh, if you all want to send me an email Maybe we missed something if you want to send me an email of some of your phone here That'd be fine too. I was joking. They didn't fall asleep No, that's 30 seconds after the gap So I I guess I'll just piggyback on um The concept of tax equity. I got a little concerns hearing about the fire department being proposed for one of those those pieces um I would say that if the town is looking to do tax equity and please know that request isn't coming from me But if the town is already looking to do it Uh, I would say that the the capital funds that the village pays to the town and the projects that are done Uh, are the use of those funds then being used for village projects would be a great use So not anything that would cost anymore, but rather a reallocation of how those funds are already spent Again, only if the town is interested not a request from the trustees Anything else from the village dinner dinner dinner Amber is Patrick still up to see see okay reading file. Anybody have any comments? And no executive fashion I make the motion we adjourn as a select board There's no consent again I didn't feel like scrolling No, there's no consent agenda second Okay, fat Emotion to adjourn is not debatable all those in favor say aye. Aye proposed Thanks like words adjourned fees I'll make a motion to adjourn the ethics junction board of trustees and I want to say Front thanks to our colleagues on the select board for sharing this wonderful evening with us late into the evening Here here second Thank you, George. Thank you Raj Uh, all those in favor of adjourning, please signify by saying aye. Hi. Hi Anybody opposed no, thank you select. Thank you staff. Good night