 It's time for the Lawn Gene Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Lawn Gene Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Gene, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Gene. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Gene Chronoscope? Larry Lusser and Lewis Banks of Time Magazine. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable Patrick V. McNamara, United States Senator from Michigan. Congress is now back from its Easter recess to face a number of intensifying problems, bearing not only on the international scene, but on our economic future as well. Our guest tonight, the successor to Senator Ferguson, represents the great industrial complex of Michigan. Senator McNamara, the titular head of the Democratic Party, Adlai Stevenson, has charged the administration with ignoring the realities in the Far East. Now, do you think the question of these offshore islands of Kimoy and Matsu is going to become a domestic partisan question? Well, wasn't that decided Larry some, oh, eight or nine weeks ago when the Congress, by an overwhelming vote, left the responsibility and the authority to President Eisenhower to proceed in whatever manner he saw fit? I think it was, and I don't think that the Congress should, on either side of the aisle, should be talking so much about it now. Having by this overwhelming vote, I think in the Senate it was ninety-one to three or something like that. Well, would you think, Senator, that Mr. Stevenson would have done better not to make it a party issue in his broadcast? Well, of course, it's hard for Mr. Stevenson not to be partisan. He definitely is associated so closely and for all practical purposes, the head of the Democratic Party. And, I mean, it's almost impossible to say that he should not be partisan. Just his appearance is a partisan appearance. Well, Senator George is the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Are you, Democrats, satisfied with the bipartisanship of foreign policy, or is there a split between the liberals and the conservatives? I think you represent the liberal wing. Well, in international affairs, incidentally we'll have to go back to that last crack. In international affairs, I don't think that there should be any more bipartisanship than there has been. It's been rather incidental, really. I don't think that there's any indication in what happened just as I mentioned this, giving to the President, the authority, and the responsibility of acting in the Famosa area. Now, this business of hanging a label on me as a liberal, I usually resent such things. I'm pro-people. You know, there are parts of the country where this business of being a liberal means to a lot of people that you're just a wide-eyed, bug-eyed radical. And I don't plead guilty to labels very easily. Senator, you're on the domestic front. You're on the Senate Labor and Public Welfare Committee. That's right. We have major labor management contracts expiring this country within the next three months or so, and automobile and part of them in steel and rubber, I think. Do you think we're just coming into a period of labor management quarreling and strikes and strife again? Well, I think that the great majority of our contracts when they expire are renegotiated without any strikes or strife or any great turmoil. The exception is when there is a shutdown, they go on strike. I think there's great hope and great chance that we're going to get over this season without any of these strikes that you're talking about. Mr. McNamara, the negotiations are taking place right now between the unions and the motor companies in Detroit. Now, on this guaranteed annual wage which the unions are asking for, isn't that going to have a very far-reaching effect on our economy since the automobile industry extends into so many industries like steel, rubber, textiles, etc.? Yes, I think such a basic thing as a guaranteed annual wage is bound to have an effect. But then the logical question is, is it a good effect or a bad effect? And I think there's a good chance that it'll be a stabilizing and a good effect on our economy. Well, Senator, there's some talk that the guaranteed annual wage might be all right for the big two or the big three of the industry, but it might put the smaller automobile companies out of business. And I wonder if you would favor an annual wage at the price of kind of bringing the automobile business into one or two or three companies? No, I personally wouldn't. I think that we've had too much independent business failures in this country. I think actually that our country was made great on the basis of the independent businessman. And I think it'd be a tragedy if it worked that way, but I see no reason for it to work that way. I don't think that it's going to affect the small concerns adversely. Any more than they're adversely affected now by the giantism of General Motors and the others of the big three. Senator McNamara, the guaranteed annual wage will have a tremendous effect. As you said, if the automobile companies granted it, if they don't grant it, the possibility of a strike will also have a tremendous effect on the automobile industry and all its associated industries. Now, do you think that there is likely to be a strike following June when those contracts run out in the automobile industry? I just came from Detroit yesterday and I've talked to some of the people around there who are rather high ranking on both sides. And there's great hope and I have great hope that there will be no strike. I think this thing can be truly negotiated across the bargaining table and avoid any shutdown of the economy. And I surely hope so because we need it in Detroit. We need to continue as we're going. Looking just a little farther ahead in labor, this fall the AFL-CIO merger may well go into effect. And that would kind of bring in a labor organization with more resources and bargaining power than ending in the history of this country. Do you think that's likely to change the whole basis of negotiation that we will see more labor demands and greater labor demands than ever before? No, I don't think so. As a matter of fact, I think it can be helpful to the economy rather than harmful. You know, we had two large labor bodies, the CIO and the AFL. And there were occasions when there would be jurisdictional disturbances that can well be erased by this. And if you're asking me if I think that the threat because of the size of these people, the threat to business generally, is really bad. I don't see it. We had these same groups organized. True, they were separate bodies, but generally they went along pretty well together as far as our economic things are concerned, I think. There wasn't much conflict between them. So this matter of unity is hardly anything new, as I see it. Senator McNamara, I'm not quite clear on the guaranteed annual wage. It seems to me that if you have to guarantee a man an annual wage, there would be a reluctance to hire a new man. Do you think that it may turn out to be that way? I believe it's that way in Italy now. They have a guaranteed annual wage. Well, actually, I don't know anything about Italy. And when you start talking about the economy of other countries, I don't think they're comparable to ours. And I would hate to be accepted as an expert on labor. And maybe my answering these questions would leave somebody with the impression that I was speaking for organized labor. And believe me, I have no right and no authority and no intention for speaking for them. They have able spokesmen on both CIO, AFL and independent unions, and I'm not one of them. What was the basic... I just ask if you had a guaranteed annual wage in an industry, would that mean that there would be a reluctance to hire a new man because you'd have to pay him a guaranteed wage? Well, not necessarily. You see, I expect that there would be reasonable provisions made for people that were new, such as there is under seniority setups and union shop setups. There are probationary periods that run anywhere from 30 days to 6 months in some cases. And I expect that there would be latitude made for these situations that might arise, such as you're talking about, although I again don't know. That would have to be negotiated and I expect it would be covered in this bargaining agreement. Well, Senator McNamara, I compliment you on your humility and your reluctance to speak as a statesman since you are a freshman in the Senate. But tell me, what do you actually regard as the biggest issue before Congress now that you were in the Senate? Well, you know, I think that the consideration that has been going on of federal aid to school construction is one of the most important things. I think that we will not long be the most powerful nation in the world if we don't have a better educational system than we have presently. I think it's a tremendous problem and I'm spending a lot of my time in that direction. Well, doesn't the administration have a federal aid to schools program? Yes, yes. There was a bill presented that grew out of the president's recommendation. And about 40 educators from all sections of the country, each representing different states, appeared before our committee. And to a man, they oppose the program. Why? Well, actually what the school districts are short of now is money. They don't have enough money to operate. And the president's plan basically is very revolutionary one. It establishes that money shall be loaned through an agency that's reauthorized under this legislation known as the State School Construction Commission. And money would be borrowed through this agency to build classrooms by the school districts. And then the school districts would pay rent on the classrooms through this state agency. Well, now that's something new. We're going to rent our schools. But what are they going to pay the rent out of? They're going to pay it out of current income. Now that isn't going to help some people that don't have enough money now. Actually the effect of it would be that we'd pass on to our children or our children's children the responsibility of paying for the schools that they're using today. We've got too far behind in our program, our lack of classrooms, a lack of more than 300,000 nationally. For this kind of a program to do the job, you've got to give them some direct federal aid. I think more like is involved in this Bill S-5, the Hill Bill that would advance $500 million each year for the next two years. Why do you think it would be better, actually, Senator McNamara, for the federal government to pay a larger part of this bill than the states themselves? Why, it would be better. Yes, why do you think so? Well, the states have no opportunity to raise this money. Most of the states can't have an income tax to raise this money. Many of them have income taxes now that are very limited. But the federal government has power through their taxing ability to raise the money and raise it readily. And actually it means returning to the states by a small portion. Now under this S-5 Bill, the Hill Bill, the state of Michigan would have returned to it 1.1% of the money that they pay in in federal income taxes. A very small part. Now there's no onus on that kind of money in my estimation of you getting one cent out of a dollar back to meet an emergency in this school situation. I think that there's great justification for it. Thank you very much, Senator McNamara of Michigan. Thank you. The opinions expressed on the Launcine Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Launcine Chronoscope was Larry Lasser and Lewis Banks. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable Patrick V McNamara, United States Senator from Michigan. Another baseball season is here and major league teams begin their long grind toward a pennant and a chance for the World Series. 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