 I'm Cappy McGar, and I serve on the Board of Trustees of the LBJ Foundation, and it's an honor to welcome you to the LBJ Library for what I know is going to be a great conversation. A big thank you to our sponsors for the evening, St. David's Health Care and the Moody Foundation, who do such incredible work every day. Following the program, book sales will continue in the upper lobby, and also after the program, I invite friends of the LBJ Library members to join us in the reception of the Great Hall. One of the great things about LBJ is that there's a story for just about every situation, and there's two that I think that are relevant tonight. The first is about a special car that LBJ had at his ranch that could basically turn into a boat and go in water. So he would take people for rides in this thing without telling him what the car would do, and he would drive up its big hill down to the lake and then he'd blast down the hill like the Apollo rocket, and then he'd tell his guests his brakes had stopped working. You know, back then a president went downhill towards danger at breakneck speed. Pretending the brakes weren't working while betting he'd stay afloat at the end, that was called a prank. Today we just called it a government shutdown. The second story took place when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1964. At the time his daughter Lucy was 17. When Lucy Asquire gave Everett Dirksen, the top Senate Republican, a pen at the signing, at the bill signing, her father gave her a disappointing look and said, Lucy, I didn't have to convince one of the great civil rights leaders to be for that legislation. They were already for it. But because of Everett Dirksen's decision to support the law and bring his supporters with him, the great civil rights leaders and I have a law, not just a bill. That's why Senator Dirksen got a pen. Imagine that. Republican and a Democrat working together and a president grateful for the political opponent. But how would LBJ feel about if he saw the country today? And that atmosphere is so poisonous that different parties hardly talk to each other. The way people attack each other so viciously on Twitter. I think he would be devastated that the great society had been replaced by the great schism. When trust in Congress is lower than the glasses on Chuck Schumer's nose, it's pretty clear somebody's got to change. So that's why I'm so glad that Lee Berman and who is White House social secretary and the president, George W. Bush and Jeremy Bernard, who has had the same job on President Obama, have written their new book, Treating People Well. It's fantastic. And I'm not just saying that because I happen to be in it. Sure, I am. But my experience in producing seven White House shows and events for the president sure gave me new appreciation for what Lee and Jeremy had been through. For example, Paul McCartney was going to perform in the East Room of the White House for a show I was executive producer on. Paul's bodyguard, his armed bodyguard, tried to come in with a gun. Of course, the Secret Service said absolutely not. This is the safest place in the world. That's when Sir Paul's team tried to sneak the bodyguard by putting his name on the production side, being a part of the production. The Secret Service caught that too, and they were not happy at all. So they said Paul McCartney's bodyguard couldn't come in the White House at all. The fight with Paul's team and the Secret Service got to the point where it looked like there was no bodyguard, there would be no Paul McCartney performing at the White House. So I called Juliana Smoot, the White House secretary at the time, and she set the meeting up with the head of the Secret Service, where we got the whole thing straightened out. The one for Juliana's help Paul McCartney might not have shown up at the White House. It's a good example of why social secretaries are the unherald heroes of the White House. They're basically quiet problem solvers. Heck, McCartney basically wrote the song, We Can Work It Out. So listen closely what Lee and Jeremy have to say today. They've seen people at their best, and they've seen people at their worst. And they know the power that comes simply from treating people well. Today, we're fortunate to have a Washington legend as a moderator, Capricia Marshall, she was social secretary in the Clinton administration and chief of protocol under President Barack Obama, the German ambassador called her Superwoman. But before I turn it over to Superwoman, let me close with a question that LBJ asked, something that we're still asking today. In August in 1965, two astronauts set an American record for the longest duration in space for the first time. But as but as our eyes turned to a new frontier, LBJ was thinking a little bit closer to home. Quote, he said, as man draws near to the stars, why should he not also draw near to his neighbors? So we're 50 years in this time of deep division. His question is more important than ever. Lee and Jeremy can help us find that answer. So let me welcome without further ado, Capricia, Jeremy and Lee. Can't believe you told the ending of the book. Well, thank you. Thank you, Kathy, so very much. And welcome to everyone. Kathy has been a dear, dear friend for for many, many years of every administration. I want to thank you and also Larry Temple, chair of the board here at the LBJ Foundation and Amy Barbie, executive director of the LBJ Foundation and all the other members of the board for inviting us to be here this evening with everyone. Additionally, I want to thank Mark Updegrove, who regrettably is out of town for this event, and also Sarah McCracken for all of her wonderful help in arranging all the fantastic details. It is such a pleasure to be here with my two dear, dear friends, Lee and Jeremy. Before we get into the conversation, though, I was asked to make sure that everyone knows I'm going to leave a few minutes at the end of our discussion for questions. So while we're talking, you might want to take some time and think of a few questions. There are microphones in the aisles up here near to the front. And so in about 40 minutes or so, if you feel like you have a wonderful question to ask our two fabulous authors, please just line up behind the microphones and then we'll start to we'll start to ask those. But it is such a pleasure to be here with both of you and congratulations. It is beautiful. What a beautiful book. I clearly am reading it a lot. I am turning down pages and making sure that I tell my 17 year old son all the wonderful advice that that you have shared. So I hope that everyone now has loaded up on their Valentine's Day presents for all of their family members. And if not, they're going to continue to sell books and it's in all the bookstores around town. So make sure that you get those. The social secretary is a wonderful club. We make sure that no matter the political background, no matter the president that's in office, we take care of one another, we give each other really frank advice, and we celebrate one another's achievements. And so I'm so proud to be here this evening to celebrate this wonderful achievement of the two of them. And I know secretly that I am your favorite social secretary sister, right? Without question, at least for the next 60 90 minutes. Excellent, excellent. Although we do need to celebrate our wonderful social secretary sister, best able, who was President Johnson, social secretary, greatest storyteller, hands down of any storyteller. And I'm sure we're going to hear a few of those stories this evening. I thought that we'd begin first and the two of you telling a bit of your backgrounds and how you came up with the collaboration. So I'd like to start with you, Lee. And it's been so wonderful getting to know you over the years. You and your fabulous husband, Wayne, who's here this evening with you and being a part of the Washington DC, you know, neighbors and friends, you have very special relationship with Mrs. Bush. And it's so clear that through the forward that she wrote in the book, it is just so warm and lovely, just like her when you see her, she has this just elegant calmness about her. Tell us a little bit about your background and how did you become the White House social secretary? Well, I am a very unlikely candidate to have ever been a White House social secretary. I grew up on a grape farm in Ohio. I didn't have any playmates until I went to kindergarten. So I was always a very socially backward child. When I went to college, that all changed, you know, the way it does when you go to college. And I was interested in politics. I worked in Washington for a number of years. And then I became a full time mother for 10 years, when I had a call to come and interview for the position of social secretary to the vice president. So I worked for the Chinese for several years as social secretary. And then later her chief of staff and thought I was finished. And then after President Bush won the second term, Mrs. Bush interviewed me to come be the social secretary. And I was deeply intimidated by the whole idea of it. But as I had always considered it a great character failing that I was so awkward and uncomfortable around people, I thought this is exactly what I need to do with my life. And I did. And it helped me so much that it's part of the reason Jeremy and I came around to writing this book because all social behavior is learned and we can all get better at it. And if you're uncomfortable when you walk into a room full of people and you don't know where to start, there are specific things you can do to make that a more pleasant experience. And so that's my unlikely path. Well, Jeremy, my I also was a very shy kid. I would be on the steps in kindergarten at recess and I didn't want to go play in the you know, kindergarten teachers can be mean. And they they were Jeremy, get off the step and go come play with other. I hated it. I hated it. And so if you had told me then that there was this job and that I would eventually have it, I would be like wrong person. But I was I started working for the Obama's in 2007 at the beginning of the campaign, got to know them, which as you know, it's always a plus to know the before they're in the White House because it's intimidating. I mean, you have the Secret Service, you have the Health of the Chief, it's all very overwhelmed can be overwhelming. But I had a great relationship with them from the campaign. I was serving in the administration. I was actually living in Paris, working for the US Ambassador in Paris, and got an email saying, would you throw your hat in the ring for this job? And I was like, Yeah, really? No, I mean, there's no way. But sure, I'll try it. And I flew out and I did the interview. And I told Mrs. Obama, right off the start, I said, you know, I really don't know flowers. And I don't know play settings. I don't know China. I don't really know if I'm the right person for this job. And she is that you'll have people to help you with that. I need someone with good political judgment. And it wasn't political as Democrat Republican, but on how you deal with people. Because what our job was so important, as you know, is making all the guests no matter where they're from, or what party welcomed. And that was our job. And so you represent the president first lady so anything you do could embarrass them. So we were very careful. And it was great in a way because we learned, Well, we should really do this all the time. But it's easy in this time, I think, to bad behaviors contagious. And it's very easy to get into that routine of responding. I always say no, don't if you see something on Facebook or someone writes something, you are angry, you want to wait till the next day, because it stays with you forever. And it represents you. Well, I wanted to also say welcome home. Thank you. Thank you, San Antonio. They're San Antonio's here. Wonderful. It must be fabulous to be back here in Texas. Now, Jeremy, Jeremy and I have a very special relationship because as he served as social secretary, I was serving in another capacity as chief of protocol. And we really were at times linked arm in arm on so many of the events and memories you discussed. For me, it was like going down wonderful memory lane. And he of course worked for the fabulous President Bush, excuse me, President Obama and President and Mrs. Obama. It was spectacular working for for both of them. It's Cappy referred to this a little bit and you did just now, Jeremy, but this getting long between Democrats and Republicans and in Washington DC and and how this is seen throughout the country. It's so unique that people that come from relatively different political philosophies collaborate so beautifully. I mean, the book is written in a way that is almost seamless, their voice between the two of you. How did you come up with a collaboration? What was that like then working with one another? First, I just have to say having compresia here is like giving you all a whole another encyclopedia of White House stories. So as you're thinking about questions, this is the Clinton administration right here, and she's got wonderful stories herself. We really felt our collaboration was pretty natural and easy. The job, as Jeremy said of the social secretary is to always welcome everyone and we found ourselves and we found ourselves watching our bosses work extra hard with the people who were there at the White House who were not their supporters. They would have these long conversations where they would try to find something that they had in common. It would be movies or sports or whatever it was that they could break through and build a human connection. And I think that's what we all need to remember these days as things get less and less pleasant in the public arena and then on the Internet as well. Politics does not need to be in everything. And when we make everything a political issue, we run the risk of making enemies of people who simply have a different point of view. So for us, we were boxhole friends together and all of the social secretaries feel this way. If you've lived at a certain experience, you can understand and appreciate where that person is coming from and because you meet so many different kinds of people from different cultures and different walks of life, you learn to be a lot more open-minded about things. So I think it made the collaboration pretty easy. I've I met Lee at there's a tradition that the outgoing social secretary hosts a lunch for the new social secretary and the former socials come and it's a you know, one of those secret clubs that no one can know anything about. But we had this lunch. I met Lee there and then Lee hosted a lunch for me a couple of weeks later and then we would see each other and as I would call you or often in the hallways ask you, how did you deal with this or what do you do? Did you change staff? And I would call Lee and Gail and different. And it was when for every year I would host a lunch in the West Wing for all the former socials and then we'd like have dessert in the blue room or something. And Mrs. Obama on the my first one came down to say hello to everyone and she said it just so perfectly. She said, it's not about politics. It's about being a patriot and you know, you are all welcome to hear anytime. And that was something when we started talking, we were like Roxanne Roberts from the Washington Post suggested we do a book together because she said you guys get a long great different administrations, different parties, write a book together. I think she was thinking more of entertaining book and entertainment. And we're like, well, what would it be? And we worked on it for a while. And this we really thought what was so important about our job? Everyone thinks it's about throwing a state dinner or a big party. There's so much more to it. But at the bottom line, it's about how you treat absolutely absolutely is. And Jeremy was incredibly kind to to all of us by by extending that invitation to the former social secretaries and including us during the Christmas holidays. The decorations were so fantastic, really fantastic. And I was so pleased that it has continued on. So we were all just there recently in December enjoying enjoying a luncheon together. I love reading about the first days in the White House. I know those those first moments. It's it's so intimidating. It's it takes it takes your breath away when you walk through the gate of the White House. I will tell you a real quick story about my first day seeing as how Lee gave me permission. I we were staying with the Clintons and at Blair House, which is the president's guest house, and it's across the street on Pennsylvania Avenue. And during that time, there was actually traffic still on Pennsylvania Avenue. Now it's been closed off for security purposes. I I was given the duty of making sure that the first lady's gown was taken over and into the White House after after noon after the inauguration. And and I was so nervous. I wanted to make sure the gown got there. There was nothing that was lost. You know, I had the shoes and I had everything all packaged up and and it's literally right across the street. And so I was I asked, how do you get into the White House? And someone said to me, well, you wave, you're waived in you're waived in. I thought, well, that's so odd. You're waived in. So I just took the gown and I went over and I stood in front of the Secret Service booth and I began waving. I'm here. Let me in. And the guard is looking. I mean, you can see the guards and they're looking at me like and they're looking at each other and they're howling like look at this, you know, and I'm like, well, that is not going to work. And finally a friend of mine who knew the process handed his license over. Of course, he had clearances, his date of birth, social security number, etc, etc. And I said, I'm waving like crazy Mike and he looked at me and he goes, no, wave stands. It's an acronym. It stands for some security thing for how you get in. He goes, don't worry, I'll wave you in. So that was my first day trying to get into the White House. With the First Lady's gown, all I thought was she will have nothing to wear tonight. I will have nothing for her to wear tonight. So what was your first days like in the White House? So it's overwhelming to a degree. You just can't believe am I really here? And when are they going to find out that that was a mistake and it shouldn't be me. But what was so great is Juliana, my predecessor, was able to lap over one day as long as I wasn't paid until the next day because they were very strict about payroll. And so I go in and she I'm following her around and everyone is just so great. I go by to say hello to the in the outer oval to the people there and the president comes out like hey it's good to have you in the family and everyone was so warm. I ran into you and the mess, the White House mess where we would go get consistently mediocre food. But you were so warm and you were so because Juliana said oh I want to introduce you. I know Jeremy and just so warm and the only thing that kind of threw me off was as I get into settled in my office I notice these steps and I was like what are those steps for? And say Siku who is my assistant at the time said oh those are because your windows are not actually just windows they're doors and they open out onto the roof of the part of the White House and I was like oh that's cool and she goes just make sure you call the Secret Service first so they don't shoot you. And I said should there be a sign or something? I mean what if you weren't here? So it was there were a lot of things to get used to. My first days were helped along by the fact that my predecessor Kathy Fenton was there and we overlapped for about a month and she took me around and introduced me to all the resident staff who are so important to the how the White House runs every day because these are people who stay throughout their careers they don't leave when a president leaves and they really hold the sense of tradition and the way things are done the eggnog recipe and so they're very important to teaching the rest of us as we come in what the standards and the expectations are and I remember at the end of the day Kathy gave me this enormous photograph of the extended bush family it was about 150 people in one photo and she said you need to learn them all and I said why and she said oh they come here a lot and you know this is a close-knit family they expect to be recognized like family and they will really appreciate it and it was probably the best advice she gave me because there were bush family members popping in and out all the time and if you recognize them and welcome them they were just thrilled and that it carried on it carries on today when Barbara Bush and George H. W. Bush come to the White House you would just see all these doors popping open all over that you didn't even know were there and staff running out to meet them because they just had such a great sense of affection for them oh that's so so true I remember those they create a real bond over the years that they are there and each of us serve presidents that were there for eight years and so that bond really becomes quite close and in even thereafter I attended the funeral of one of the White House butlers that Mrs. Bush also attended I was I was quite touched by that and I think that everyone in the executive mansion was very touched by that expression as well so just sort of toss-up question favorite memory for my it's tough to say it is a favorite not absolute favorite but Gail Burt once told me that your first-state dinner is like the first love it's nothing can compare I'm gonna be honest I don't remember my first love but I do remember the first-state dinner and it was the Germany State Dinner and it was so frightening because I had just started it was like two months into it and everything was just moving along so well because you were there at the protocol my staff had been there before me so I was just watching all these moving parts in the weeks that were leading up to the state dinner and the day before I went into brief Mrs. Obama and I brought someone with me that had been there in case I got stuck and they could answer the question and Mrs. Obama could see the absolute fear and shock in my eye at this you know dinner and she said you know what I know where to go this is easy they make a much bigger deal than it is just follow me you'll be great and she would walk into rooms when I was first and she'd see me if she kind of give a week this feeling of you you belong here and welcome and that I thought was really important to me and it really helped and the state dinner was beautiful out in the Rose Garden but because the State Department would not give us money for it we couldn't have a tent in case it rain and so we got this little mini budget and so everyone thinks oh well you work out why does must have a great budget it was horrible but we had this theater outside but there was a slight chance of rain and the military office across the way they were keeping track of it and they said we would say 20 percent chance and I thought you know usually I say when in doubt don't but it looks so good let's go for it and it occurred it was beautiful but as the night went on it got more and more humid that storm was coming and I just couldn't wait till they left and it turned out perfect it didn't it did not rain for a couple more hours the next day Mrs. Obama said to me we were talking about it and she said you know at one point last night Barack looked at me and he says you know this is really beautiful but you guys took a hell of a chance it's not like we didn't have a backup plan and she looked at me she goes we did have a backup plan that gate I looked at because I thought if this goes sour that's the gate I'm leaving I'll be the shortest term social secretary it's good we have a backup plan I said don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer in retrospect I think as time was there and we got more cautious you know we were we learned to be cautious I wouldn't probably make the same decision and we had the Turk the press conference in the Rose Garden that time they ran late and it started raining so I I learned to be more cautious and probably wouldn't do it the same way so I'm glad I didn't know better well I was social secretary in 2005 and 2006 which was a time when the war in Iraq was not going well it was before the surge and it was an embattled White House and we had an event every year called the iftar dinner and it was a celebration of the breaking of the Ramadan fast and we the president always invited all of the ambassadors from countries with large Muslim populations he invited various moms from around the country and they would arrive at a certain time and it had to be timed very exactly and exactly as the Sun set we were allowed to serve food and then they were invited in for dinner but before that we had arranged the East Wing we covered all the portraits we brought in prayer rugs and we had an Imam standing in the Grand Foyer calling the guests to prayer if they wanted to come and pray before the breaking of the fast and I hadn't been at the White House very long then and I remember standing there and thinking with all that is going on in Iraq right now and and the difficulties this country is having to see the way this religion is being honored here is just the kind of tolerance that I would like to see in my country and I was it was a very proud moment which is why it's memorable to me. Oh that's wonderful. That is a special memory. See you are so much better than me because I and she is she really is. Okay so not my favorite. I remember dreading that because it was usually near the longest day of the year and you couldn't do anything until sundown and it meant I was like this is never ending. But in the names were always so difficult we were always checking double check because if you got one thing wrong at the Secret Service Gate the person was stopped to take 20 minutes to get them in with the right information. So it was always a challenge. So I'm so glad that you have more positive spin. Oh you know having worked eight years in the Clinton administration and four years in the Obama administration you really get to know your boss well and you get to know their family very well very intimately as was pointed out to you Lee that you're going to have to know these folks and and and they'll be by often. What is something about what is a special a special story or a special aspect of the Bushes and the Obamas that you'd like to talk about that you feel most people just really don't know about them. Well I didn't know the Bushes at all when I went to work for them and one of the first things Mrs. Bush asked me when I started was to try to work with the chef because they didn't seem like they were all on the same page and I did to no avail and after several months the chief usher made the decision that the chef would be asked to resign and be given full honors and a great reference and so forth. And he the chef did not feel that that was fair and so he immediately went to the New York Times and said he'd been fired by a Dolce and Gabbana pants who were in socialite me and I really wasn't involved in anything except trying to help him and I was shocked because you know I'm still pretty much a housewife who ended up working at the White House somehow and now I'm in the New York Times and now and to be called a socialite I mean that is an insult. So I was really mopey that next day at work I kind of wandered around feeling sorry for myself and being very very quiet and at the end of the day the Bushes had a dinner and the family residents and I was seeing the last of their guests out and the president walked over to me and he said hey I hear you fired the chef and he started to laugh and I thought this is so kind of him I had no idea that he was that kind of person who would notice among all the staff he deals with every day but I'm really down and I just was surprised because I think he a president has so many other things to think about and it was actually very thoughtful of him and it gave me some perspective because you know people were saying a lot worse things about him every day and you know so why should I be upset about being called a socialite. I there one of the things as social secretary as you try to keep a low profile overall so you know why put a target on your back in it and so you've always tried to not be in the paper and then I found out that the New York Times was working on an article about me and I was scared to death and the reporter called me I said I'm not I'm not going to participate that there's no in a sense no reason for a story here well the article comes out and I find out on Friday that it's in the Sunday New York Times and I am at home with the duvet over my head like I don't want to go outside this is you know I was just I was just horrified how people would react what would be said and the next day at the White House I was so kind of like rattled by it because I didn't it was something I tried to stay away from and after the president says to me as we're walking to the elevator he goes Jeremy wow damn good article and a nice photos how do you do that they don't do either for me. It was and he's like you're doing a great job and as you know it always felt good no matter what having that affirmation and kindness so they were they were really generous in that way. That's lovely I agree they're very generous. One of my favorite chapters is using humor and charm in the book to deflect in particularly embarrassing awkward moments. Now thank you so very much for putting my most oops sorry I think I just just blasted the sound guys ears here. Thank you. One of my most embarrassing moments if you Google Capriccio Marshall Paul you'll get a wonderful video of me going down the North Portico steps during the visit of President Calderón of Mexico and I am half Mexican and so my entire family in Cleveland Ohio was watching this occur and I can hear everyone yelling from Cleveland Ohio I caramba it was horrible and I relive it often with my son who thinks it's really funny to pull it up and have it going me going up and down up and down up and down the steps but I love that chapter because most people just kind of cringe and they they fall they become a turtle in a shell and oh gosh and they can't talk a little bit about your most embarrassing moment or awkward moment and then how did you use charm and humor to sort of carry on the day. Well we should explain that when she says she went down she was dressed in the most beautiful Audrey Hepburn ask ball gown and the North Portico steps are marble and very very slippery and she she fell down backward and the photographer started taking pictures and President Obama said stop don't take the pictures and she got up like a swan and she opened the door and she welcomed the Mexican president like it never happened. So that's why she's in the charm chapter because she did it so beautifully her son. You know I I got dangerously close one time there at a previous government shutdown there we were the government was shut down for two weeks and none of my staff they they make were only essential workers and I don't know how they decide who's essential but essential workers can be at the White House the others legally can't show up for work. So it was two weeks and it got settled it was a Friday and there was an event in the East Room and the president walks in before going to walk into the blue room where the military guards or everyone all the assistance where he goes hey everyone it's it's good to have you back. Yeah. And they were like thank you Mr. President it's good to be back. Yeah you know Jeremy was running things for a while here and that's scary. And I said and I laughed and I said yeah this president yeah by the way now that people are back I can work on that that website if you need and it was a health care dot gov and you just heard everyone go. And I think Biden was looking at me like he was going to kill me and then the president puts on that big smile and starts laughing I said too soon Mr. President because yeah too soon too soon everyone laughs once he laughed but until then they were like this man is yeah keep him away. That's awesome. Do you have a story? You know I don't think I handled this with great charm or humor but I handled it. There was a particularly difficult official dinner luncheon for the Chinese and it was marred from the very beginning because there was a heckler at the arrival ceremony which was very insulting to the Chinese president and then the walk of the White House communications announcer referred to him as the president of the Republic of China rather than the People's Republic of China and you know they care about that a lot. We heard about it. Yes. Probably the delegations will hear about it forever and they thought it was intentional and they were just both stupid mistakes. The heckler was let in on a press pass and so then the delegation started pulling out of the luncheon and I had been told by the state department before the luncheon that there is a thing that the Chinese sometimes do which is to try to have their translator work for both their president and our president and I was told not to let that happen under any circumstances so I went over and immediately of course the Chinese translator has pushed the American translator out of her seat and she's standing behind it looking kind of crestfallen and I explained that the Chinese woman needed to move so that the American president could have his translator and she pretended she didn't speak English. And so you know I turned to the American translator and said when I get this chair open I want you to sit in it and do not get out of it until this luncheon is over and I tipped the woman's chair forward a couple of inches and she jumped up in world on me in a fury and I pushed our translator into the seat and then I could see the Chinese chief of protocol coming at me like he was going to physically attack me and just that moment I was literally saved by the marine band who struck up hail to the chief because the two presidents had entered the East Room and that was it my most embarrassing but also probably my most disappointing moment the social secretary. I would have to say that no that's imperatively important you know from our perspective at the state department because it is that translator is the voice of the leader and so whatever comes out of them that is taken verbatim by fact and so we don't we don't know what you know our bilateral partners translator saying you know if there's if they're actually translating or because we don't speak Mandarin right and so we you did was Bravo for you you didn't be absolutely right thing to do and you know if you have to tip them out of a chair you got to tip them out. That's what you got to do. So that's probably also your difficult person scenario. I would I would guess. Jeremy Cappy talked a little bit about managing a story a wonderful story earlier about managing difficult people in the White House. You know as you mentioned there's lots of secret service the formality of being in the White House. How did you deal with folks who were disappointed or you know we all have heard the well I'm just going to go to the president then when you tell them no. Oh right right you manage people. It was the one of the things I had talked to Mrs. Obama about in the interview was that to get more people into the White House and that from an outsider it seemed like there was the same people going in and that there was there were so many people to get in and she said absolutely you're absolutely right. So I would go through the holiday list that I would get from the DNC and from Ledger Farrell and I would cross out people. I have my staff look and see how many parties they have been and I cross them out and I got so much help for it but Valerie Jarrett went with me to the DNC and said this list is no good and they gave us more people new people. I would get calls from people saying well I've been to the last two part of it why would I not be able to go to the holiday party this year. And I'm like during the Clinton administration I got three invitations over eight years and I was thrilled and surprised each time I got one. And there was there are some people have a feeling of entitlement and it's you once said because you were dealing with a country where the delegation had been left outside because of some information issues and how they reacted by when you went messing with me. And you said you know just remember you're dealing with school kids at all of it really was you know you really people would say well I understand why they need more people in but they want to see me I'm important and you had to manage and someone would complain to me that they they were at a dinner in the East room and by the window looking out the North lawn and she said could you put me any further from the president and first lady and I was like there are no bad seats in the White House. Well and we all hear the same thing after the Clinton administration. Guests would come to us and say you know they had a lot more people here for this event in the Clinton years or you know their parties used to go much later into the night and you're pushing us out it's 9 30. We could never meet the standard that people came to expect after going to the White House. You had a boss that enjoyed your life on it and he would go and he'd be scheduled for what for an hour and he'd be there for two three hours and people started to think that's the norm and it really isn't. So it was yeah yeah it's built in time. Yeah that's what we called it in just a couple of minutes. I think are we OK on time. Can we keep going a bit longer. OK. So if for those who are interested in queuing up for a question please begin to do so. Now I'm going to I'm just going to talk through one more scenario and then we're going to bring it out to you in the audience. Again the microphones are in the aisles. You talked about and I really again this chapter is so spectacular I think and the advice is really everyone should take to it is listen first and talk later. And you really you know you talk about how navigating the White House is like sometimes walking a tightrope and you know people of of course are congratulating you on your wonderful accomplishments but they're really looking for like when you don't do well. And it's always happens that there are those scenarios when you have very high level guests and things are you know just at their peak of importance and you tell a wonderful story about how you I'm not going to get it right but the type of listening that it's intended in attentive attentive listening. Can you talk a little bit about that. Well you know you have to think about the kind of individual who's drawn to work in a White House as a political staffer. They are hyper ambitious. They're combative. They love politics. They love to fight about everything. However insignificant and they love status. And there's an attitude that you know if they can take a little power away from you they're definitely going to do it because it's just fun. And then you have people like Jeremy and me coming into a White House and we're basically civilians in that sense. We aren't thinking like that. So it's a little bit harder for people like us to interact with those people successfully because they tend to view nice being nice and as a form of weakness and something you can walk all over. So we had to learn to listen really carefully to what people like that had to say and try to figure out what they really wanted what they really needed and if we could give it to them we would. But we didn't engage and we didn't develop feuds and we really tried to keep away from all of that stuff which is rife in every White House because you can't get anything accomplished like that. It's a complete waste of time. And so you have to learn to listen very very carefully not just to what people are saying but what they're not saying try to figure out what they want and then sometimes when you need to communicate with them instead of coming right out and saying what is that you really need you have to do this thing we call funneling where you say so how are your kids and they say fine and say you know we haven't seen you around much is everything OK. And then maybe they'll say to you well actually my wife's been really sick and down with the flu and you can understand why they haven't been showing up for work on time instead of starting in by saying your absenteeism is a problem and I'm seriously thinking about firing it. So they're just born diplomatic ways to listen and to then communicate to get to a place where you can work over the long term with people who might not be so pleasant or easy to work with. I think we see it. I was watching the other day one of the cable news networks. I won't say which one because that's that gets sticky. But I was watching and there was there were two guests and one had his talking points and the other had his talking points and they didn't listen at all to each other. All they did was go through the same talking points. It we really have gotten it and it was who was going to get the best jab who was going to win the battle. And it was never going to be one by anyone because they were both screaming at each other. So I think we've gotten in a time where is it is very popular in reality TV which I will admit I don't watch. But I know enough that bad behavior is what the producers like and what they want. And so we're seeing how bad behavior is rewarded in those instances. But that's different than in life. And and it's really important. You don't want to be. It's one thing to be on TV and trying to get the ratings. You don't want to be that person that people remember. Oh my God. Were they impossible. And so which I think we just need to step back. Take a breath and not react because reacting so quickly is often what gets us in trouble. Yeah, no. I agree. Does anyone have a question from the audience? Oh, wonderful. I have a question. Was there a condition of your employment in this very special category that you had restrictions as to what kind of a book you might like to write someday? Did you have to sign some kind of document that would restrict your vocalization or written word? Well, I will tell you that I think recent history shows there is no such document for the federal voice. There is no. I don't believe it's allowed. It certainly was not even talked about in the Obama administration. I'm sure not in the bush either. I think that it's. You know, we at the next book we're going to write is called This Is What We Really Think and we're going to do all the trash stories. But it, you know, we feel very lucky to have worked for such generous and wonderful bosses. And so the last thing we want to do is do anything that embarrasses them or has a story where someone is embarrassed because we named them or that they do something. So we always use code except for Capricia because it's on video. But it was, you know, it really you can't write a book about treating people well and then trash people much as we would have liked to at times. Yeah, we kind of self censored. And, you know, not everyone, everyone's human. Not everyone behaves perfectly every day. And sometimes we have off moods and, you know, you wouldn't want to be described based on that one really terrible day you had. And so we tried to average things out. But there was never any kind of agreement to be signed. And when we finished the book, I sent it to Mrs. Bush and I said, if there's anything you don't like, please let me know. And she didn't change a thing. Thank you, sir. My question is, how many different bosses or people did you have to answer to? The president, the first lady, the chief of staff, secret service, all of the above? It's a good question. The truth of the matter is, is we reported to the president and that was our boss. I think it was Gail Burt talked about one time, maybe it was Don Rieger or something, said she was fired. And Mrs. Reagan was like, what is he talking about? He can't do anything. You know, he's not in charge of you. We really answered to the president. But I went every morning to the senior staff meeting, which was run by the chief of staff. And I tried to keep the chief of staff as informed as they wanted to be on things coming up. And, you know, Jack Lew would say to me, just tell me where I have to show up. And whereas daily wanted details, why was this person on the list? Why was that person? So we learned how to navigate to make sure people felt like we were listening to them. But we really, I don't feel that we had a bunch of bosses. We just had a lot of, there were a few people that like to stir the pot, but bosses, it worked out pretty well. Everything is moving so fast that it's difficult for people to really get in your business for very long because by the time they get around to figuring out what's happened, the event's over. And so I kind of took advantage of that as much as I could. But I think every White House is different. I worked much more with Mrs. Bush than I did with President Bush directly. And so I just would call her up and say, what do you think about this or that? Or she had a wonderful way of coming down to the East Wing and she'd pop her head in the door and say, what are you working on? And she'd sit down and I'd show her what I was doing and we'd have a nice chat and she'd go down the hall to the correspondence office or the press office. And that way, everyone in the staff felt like they had a personal relationship with her. She was building loyalty without, I think even maybe realizing that's what she was doing because it was clear that she cared about not just the jobs we were doing, but us personally. And so I felt like we all worked with her pretty regularly and she was very hands-on. I would say that every social secretary works very, very closely to and with the First Lady. But ultimately, we all in the White House served at the pleasure of the president. And so he really, he up until now, will always have the ultimate say on whether someone stays or goes. In the second inauguration, before it, there was a, the week before there were some receptions. And at the end of one of the receptions, I was with the president and Mrs. Obama and Jake Hardy. And we were talking about something which I don't remember except that the president had said something about Mrs. Obama's hair the day before that didn't go over well. So he said something to me and I said, oh, like the comment about her hair. And he goes, what are you doing? Why would you say that? You know, you work for me. You are assistant to the president not to the First Lady. Shit, she can't fire you, I can. And I grabbed Mrs. Obama's arm. She was like holding my hand. I grabbed her, I put my head on her shoulder and said, but I know who the real boss is. Wise, very wise. Yes, sir. What can you say about your position in the current administration with all the chaos that's up there now? Well, the person who has the job now whom we all know is a wonderful event, a planning professional and she's been doing it for 20 years. She doesn't come from politics but she certainly knows how to do events and I think she's very good. I don't know her as well as you do as long as you do, but she is wonderful and she was very gracious to host us in December and I think she's doing a great job. I don't know what's real and isn't real because so many things are rumors so I tried to stay away from it. Once we kind of talked about our experiences and our predecessors and we'll let who's there now talk about this once they're done. That's a good way of not answering the question. Yes, sir? I'd like to know, you're very fine people. I'd like to know how you got this job. Everybody always asks that and it's different for each of us really. How did you get the job? Well, I was working in the White House already. I was a special assistant to the First Lady and worked very closely with my predecessor Ann Stock and because I work so closely with her and you get to know the style and the manner in which the First Family really wants to do things. Mrs. Clinton then asked me if I wanted this position and I was so incredibly touched by her offer because I was already performing a job that was important in her life and in the frame of the White House but she wanted me to grow in my career and that's what she said to me. She said, you need to have this position now, Capricia. You need to rise and become a manager and have a staff and it's time for you and your career and I was just so touched that she was thinking about me personally in that way and offered me the opportunity of a lifetime. These jobs are really extraordinary. They're hard but you have so much fun doing them. They're very creative. There's nothing like sitting down and thinking, okay, we're doing a dinner to honor Shakespeare's birthday. What are all the ways I can do to make this really unique and special and it's just enormously creative and you have this wonderful staff of calligraphers and chefs and everyone who makes it work and makes it work so well. I basically have no idea to answer your question how I got this job. I truly did not think that I would ever have the job and I realized quickly that one of the reasons we all had the job is because the president and First Lady really trusted us and knew we had their back and I think that goes to loyalty and to the importance of trust because I think that she really, she said I want someone that is political and understands us and has our back and I think that's the only answer I can give, what I would tell interns because they would often ask, I said I didn't plan this and it happened so sometimes it's better not to have a rigid plan if you have a gut reaction to do something different and that's what I did when I was working with the campaign and it started to look like he was gonna win, I'm not moving to DC. I was living in LA, I didn't want to move to DC but things just happened and that's I think kind of how it worked with all of us. It was, I wish we could say we planned it. Do we have time for one more question? Okay, I think this has to, oh, do we have, oh we have one more. Hi. My question is, I mean you all had such extraordinary experiences in the White House. What have you taken from that time into your personal lives now? Like there's sort of this before and after. What have you learned from being there that you find extremely valuable now in your lives? That is a great question and it is the point of the book also. I found that it changed me as a person when you're very motivated to make sure that every interaction you have with every person you're encountering is positive. It changes how you do things and we never wanted to be in the newspaper for a negative press story. We never wanted to do anything that would embarrass the president or first lady and that just alters everything you do. So if someone comes up and they're irate and they're complaining, you don't yell back. You try to accommodate them and you deflect and diffuse and you do whatever you can to please them and so sometimes I used to think I had a thousand bosses because whatever anybody wanted, that's what I would try to do to keep them happy and if you keep doing that over and over, it changes how you interact with people and you stop being as combative. You have a little more patience. You listen a little more carefully and it really honestly made me a nicer person which is why I think the book is useful because we could all do with being a little bit nicer now and then and the other thing I learned watching the Bushes was how important details are. Details really matter in life and I remember one night had been a really long, hard day. There had been several events. It had been snowing and sleeting the whole day and so getting people in and out of the White House had been chaotic and I was finally leaving at about 9.30 at night and I was exhausted. I'm dressed like social secretary with high heels and skirts. Not you as social secretary. And I was... It did, it did. I was dreading going out to my car and I walked outside in the snow and the sleet and someone of the groundskeepers had cleaned off my car and it brought me almost to tears. I was so grateful. It was such a little thing. It meant so much and the point of the book is that the little things that you do, the incremental changes you make can really be life changing in terms of how people respond to you and then it makes your life easier and less stressful because life is just easier when people like you. What I took from the White House, some of the Reagan China... So that would be illegal. The Ars Nixon would say that would be wrong. I think it was really that... I remembered coming to the Clinton White House the first time I'd come and it was... It tells you something that I called from California to RSVP and whoever answered was telling me about this great new thing, hot wire. And if I hadn't got my ticket to use it, go on that because you get cheaper tickets, cheaper hotels, they were so helpful. And you give up, or you have to say a lot to get in the White House. You have to give your social security number, birth dates. You won't believe how many people get to the gate and something didn't go right and they have to secretly tell the Secret Service oh, that really wasn't the year I was born. But it's not easy to get in and what you really want is people to feel welcomed. And I felt that when I was there and I told Mrs. Obama, I think that's what is the most important is they get in, that they feel welcomed after going through the metal detector, the dog that sniffs the gate and the line, you want them to feel welcomed. We cannot thank you both enough for this beautiful book for these wonderful, wonderful stories, the anecdotes, and especially the extraordinarily poignant advice. Again, I hope everyone goes out and buys five to 10 copies each. And we want to thank the LBJ Library and Foundation. Thank you all so very much for this invitation. And let's all leave and try to teach, try to treat people very well. Thank you very much. Thank you.