 whether it's an issue or a person, that's what that is going to happen. However, I would like to push that if we're able to push this meeting up and have more time, that would be important because it is up to us that through, regardless of what is said through public comment, that we need to be thoughtful and centered on what the candidates are actually going to say and make our decision based on that. So allowing the public to have their comment, again, we know if people are in front of us that are on the ballot. Of course, this could potentially happen. We've seen it over and over again just for different issues when we're talking about advocacy, but I do think that it is all of our responsibility to just really be focused on who it is, who is speaking, and what they're saying, and just not get caught up in whatever weeds and challenges that we may have. Whether it is through a public comment or anything else that we have to deal with throughout this process. Yeah, I have no, I cannot think of a reason that we would not have public comment. And I think that I'm coming from a place where the school committee has been criticized for not being transparent and open and not dealing with the public in a straight on fashion. We have not welcomed, we have been charged with not welcoming the public in. We have been charged with not making the public a stakeholder in our decision making process by allowing free and open speech. So I am totally in favor of public comment. And yes, it may be, you know, in some ways inconvenient. It may not, and it may be things that might happen and people might say or do in terms of politicking, but that's part and parcel of what an open process is. And I want this to be an open process. Alisha. Thank you, Lynn. I also just wanted to express that I am in favor of having public comment just as we would at mostly any other council meeting. And I think that we're making a lot of assumptions that people will come and tell us who to be voting for, but the actual content of public comments range. And so people can show up just to tell us like I hope to have school committee members who are passionate about X, Y, and Z and who are interested and advocate for X, Y, and Z, and maybe the public comments entail things like that. And I think it's important to allow the public to express those things to us. And then in regards to some of the things that came up, like what Dorothy said, I think that's the purpose of having the public comment before the candidates speak. Because I think it's less likely that then people will make comments directly about what the candidates just said, but just about how they're feeling or what their experiences are or what's resonating with them when they read whatever written answers. And I think that is valuable to us. But also in regards to what Shalini was saying in terms of if 100 people come and advocate for somebody and they don't know the other people, like that is fine. We are all still individual counselors who can think and make decisions for ourselves. And so if 100 people come and advocate for one person, that doesn't mean you are required to then vote for that person. You can still hear their interview and use your own discretion to decide whether or not based off of all the other people you heard, if you still feel that way. But I still think it's very important to allow the public to have the time to provide us with their specific input, because we'll most likely get a lot of different feedback. Michelle. Yeah, I agree with Alicia about, you know, the content of public comment. We can make some guesses about what people might bring to public comment, but we can't be for sure. But the question that I have is, because originally I was sort of thinking along the lines of Dorothy, like we're appointing these people and this is sort of an internal process, although I still support public comment. But the question I have is, are these appointees held to the same standards as an elected official? So the ethics, all of the things that we are held to. Okay, so then in that case, to me it feels like this is not simply an appointment process. This is in some ways an election. And so I therefore feel like we should treat it even though it is three months and even though we have maybe different views about whether it should be someone that's on the ballot or not on the ballot, I think that for the purposes of public comment, we should treat it in that in the same way that we would other matters. Shalini, I'm going to make take one more comment and then I'm going to make a decision. Okay. Okay, I just wanted the clarification that is this supposed to be like an election? Because I think I've spoken to a few people and it seems like an opportunity for people who are not sure that they want to commit to being a full-time committee member, but they're like, oh, we want to try this and see if this is something. And so to me it wasn't like an election process because then, of course, everyone has to do door-to-door in Canvas and get people to come and speak, but to make it a leveling playing field for this interim process, my sense was incorrect, maybe I'm wrong. What I'm hearing is that this is not just an interim appointment. It is a full-on election because I think it's different in the two situations and that would change how I think about it if you're thinking like, yeah. Let's not get back into that issue again. Okay. No, no, no. I'm just talking about this particular. I'm not saying that we should or should not appoint people if they're running. I'm saying is this interim appointment, are we characterizing that as, or is that an election process in which I didn't think it was. I think I thought it was an interim appointment process and which should not be as burdensome for the people who are volunteering to step in and to make it equal for everyone so that it's not intimidating or now have to go and garner a lot of support. To me, it feels it's not a level playing field for everyone if we allow that. Thank you. I'm sorry, but we can continue debating this for the rest of the evening. I'm going to put out the following proposal. I'm going to start by asking, is there anybody in the room now, since we're all here, all 15 of us, that cannot meet at 5.30? 5.30, Jan, September 26th. Is there anybody who cannot meet on that time, at that time? I am unknown at this point. I'm sorry. I'd have to check with my family. Okay. And Lynn, I have to check. I'm, I should have landed on the other side. I'm traveling to India on, I have to just convert the hours and whatnot. I'm traveling on Monday and this is on Tuesday and India's ahead. So most probably I'll be fine, but I just want to. I'm, I'm hearing enough uncertainty that we'll keep the meeting at 6 o'clock. And that way it's what you've been planning for. And we will open with a period of public comment. I also want to strongly urge, strongly urge anybody who wants to make public comment to email the council and the school committee members that are with us tonight. I also strongly urge that you use the form that the council uses for public comment. And I also strongly urge that, and we will then make sure that all of us, all 15 of us have the link to the published comments, which we will try to publish one hour before the meeting starts. Andy. And I would urge that public comment be strictly limited to one minute and that we be prepared to terminate any public comment at that time. Fine. Kathy. To give Athena time to put those comments up, we need to get, let everyone know to get their comments to us more than an hour before the meeting. They should get, Athena, when do you need the comments by? The council doesn't have a rule when I have to publish them. So if they were asking you to publish them one hour before the meeting. Okay. Then when do you need, so when do you need them by an hour before the meeting? I can do it right then. Okay. All public comments on the general public comment form have to be in by five. Jennifer. Can I ask, so you said the link to that public comment will be sent to all of us. Can I ask that it be posted as part of the meeting packet? We don't do that, Jennifer. And I'm sorry. I'm not asking for the, I'm not asking for the documents to be part of the meeting packet. I'm saying if you're going to send us the link, just pop the link into the agenda so that the public can see what we can see. Thank you. I have one other thing, Lynn. I just heard you agree to Andy's request to limit each person's public comment to one minute. But without having, without, you know, I, I know it sounded like I agreed. I think the issue will be how many people plan to make public comment. And if we're looking at 30 people, then we may have to limit it to a minute. And if we are looking at 10 people, we'll probably give them each three minutes. Great. Because I've heard you do that before in meetings. I've heard you say, I'm going to see how many public people have raised their hands. And then I'll decide, can we, can we not decide now? That's generally my process. But I think what Andy is saying and what all of us are saying is please say what you have to say in public comment and be precise. We have a long evening ahead of us potentially that night. And all of us want to be as fresh as we can when we make our decision. I agree. So we're not saying now that you're going to limit each person to one minute. Thank you. Irv. I just want to be clear in terms of if a person wants to make public comment, are we saying they have to have, have to have previously submitted in writing what they're going to be saying? People can make public comment in the following ways. And they are not exclusive of each other. Okay. They can write the council in general. If I have time, I usually send them back and say, if you would like this to be public through our general public comment, I give them link the link. Okay. So that's the second way is you just go directly to general public comment link. And the one, the third one is that you actually come to the meeting, raise your hand and make public comment. All right. As long as that's made clear, because when you said that, I was thinking, well, are we saying that they have to have it written? It really needs to be very clear. We're very clear. You can write us an email. If I have time, I will send you the link where you can put the general public comment in or you can go to the town's website where you do general public comment or you can come to the meeting and make general public comment. Okay. Are there any other questions regarding this process? Okay. Then this meeting is adjourned. Thank you. For those of us that are on the council, I am going to quickly look at the agenda and see what we have to get done. Lynn, would you like to take a recess before you call the regular meeting to order? Sure. Let's take a five minute break. We'll be back at 9.40. I'll give you seven minutes. Wow. All right. Stations, please. Please lower the notice. Please turn your video on as soon as you're back. I'm here. This is Anika. Thank you. Michelle, are you back? Alicia. I'm here. Thank you. Thanks, Alicia. Anika, you're back. I think you said you were here. And Michelle. All right. This is the fourth or four meetings tonight. It's September 18th, 2023. And this is a regular town council meeting. However, it will become quite abbreviated with your assistance. We've already talked about the fact that we're allowed to do this. So I'm not going to go there again. I am going to make sure that people can still hear us. Chalene Balmille. Yes. Patty Angeles. Yes. Anna Devon-Goth here. Yes. Lynn Griezmer is in the eye. Mandy Johannity. Yes, I can hear. Annika Lopes. I can hear you. Michelle Miller. Yep. Dorothy Pam. Pam Rooney. Yes. Kathy Shane. Yes. Andy Steinberg. Present. Jennifer Todd. Present. Alicia Walker. Here. Dorothy Pam. She has her camera on. I'm sure she'll be back. All right. We are going to, the announcements are on the sheet. I'm not going to go through them. They're posted. I will mention that Community Preservation Act requests will be accepted until October 1st, 2023. I will also mention that we will not, there will not be a big Puerto Rican Heritage Day celebration with the schools this year. They're going to take a pass for a year. However, we're trying to arrange a point where we do a flag raising on Friday, but we're still working out the details. However, I've looked at the proclamation and I don't believe that it needs to be changed. So with that, I'm going to ask, we have no hearings. We're going to go to general public comment. If you would like to make public comment, please raise your hand. Nadine, are you still there? Please enter the room and state your name and where you live. I am still here. This is Nadine. I live in Amherst, Massachusetts. So I'm coming in and one of the things I know that is, that I want to have a public discussion about, first I want to say is that I do appreciate public comment. And I do appreciate the fact that people are able to come in at different times to be able to do that, because people have different things. So I was involved in that last one to hear quite a bit of stuff. I do think that we spend a lot of time, a lot of time spending on things that we should already have policies and things like that already in place, because it's not the first time a lot of things have occurred. And then, but to move forward, I just wanted to talk about the fact that, about what's going on with Cress and the fact that Cress, the director, was placed on administrative leave. We still don't have all the information that's going on with there. We do need, I know we're at the forefront with regards to Amherst and the things that we're doing. So we want to get some sort of information, more public transparency with that part. The other thing is that I am not in favor of the police being part of one of the individuals who are overseeing, don't quite get, because I attended one of the CSSJC meetings, and they talked about there were four people that were brought in. And I'm not sure if that was the policy to do that. And I also do want to talk about the fact that sending some of the categories of the 911 calls there to that. And then, and I'm understanding that the administrative assistant director is being brought in. So definitely wanting to question those kinds of things. And I do think, and then lastly, I also want to bring up the stuff with regards to the police chief that again, to Paul, as much as I appreciate you, I would say that you shouldn't have the soul be the last person to make the decision. I think it should be a committee that makes a decision about the police chief. And I do want the police chief to work together with the Crests and the different programs out there for all the stuff that's been working. And I do think that we need to start having more power shifting within the town, and then definitely bring in individuals who can collaborate and work and do things like that. That's it. Thank you for joining us. Allegra Defund, please state your name. Come in, state your name and where you live. Hi, this is Allegra. I live in Amherst. I am the chair of the community safety social justice committee, but I'm speaking just as a member of the town tonight. I do have a few different things that I wanted to get out. So the first is I think that public comment is really important. And just like we have had some public listening sessions for the police chief search, I think it would be important to have the public weigh in not necessarily on who the candidates are going to be for the school committee, but what their values are in terms of the search. So I know that you can't say what the public can and can't say during public comment, but I think taking away the opportunity to talk about the qualities of a person rather than just the person themselves would be a disservice to the community. In terms of the police chief search, I am glad that there were some public forums and I believe that there might be some more opportunities for public input coming up. I hope there will be a virtual forum for people who might not have been able to or comfortable attending in person. And I do hope that there will be forums at the end of the search process with the finalist candidates for the community to meet them. I was unclear whether that was part of the plan at this point, but I do think it's really important and that we have transparency throughout the process of the police chief appointment. And just to echo some of what Nadine said, I know that before his leave, Earl had been pretty vocal about trying to get 9-1-1 calls up and running and the timeframe kept on moving backwards from my perspective. And I hope that that will be something that can occur rapidly under the hopefully interim leadership. I also, again, have expressed some concerns in the CSSJC meeting last week, but I do think that with the program up and running, it changes having part of the leadership team be a member of the police department when that is what we're trying to create an alternative to. I do understand that there's a need for collaboration with the police, but I think there's a difference between having a collaborative relationship and having somebody embedded in the leadership structure. So that was my concern with the interim plan, and I know it's interim. I know it's, everybody is kind of being asked to do additional responsibilities, but that is my concern with it as it stands. And I think that is it for me. Thank you. Thank you for joining us, Deborah Ferrara. Please enter the room, state your name, and where you live. Hello, everyone. Can you hear me? We can. Great, great. So I'm Deborah Ferrara. I'm an Amherst, I'm from District 2. I'm also part of CSSJC. Just like some of the other callers already spoke about, I want to say a couple of things. One, first, obviously, I want to just acknowledge that an important member of our CSSJC, Dr. Dimitri Shabazz, you know, passed away and she was an ardent fighter and warrior for justice. And so that's another reason why I'm calling today, because I'm really very perturbed that there is a leadership team in place that has won the police, I mean, the fire chief, and then also a sergeant for the police department. I was also part of the CSWG, and that was not part of the recommendation. So Crest is supposed to be separate from the police department and the fire department, and they should not have anything to do with the leadership. Again, they can collaborate, but they shouldn't be part of the leadership. So this transition team that's in place right now is going to totally change the mission of Crest. What I would recommend, and I know other people in the community would recommend, is for a responder who has been there from the beginning to be the leader while Crest is in transition. Also, I would like for this process in terms of looking into what's happening with Earl Miller and the director of Crest, to go as speedily and fairly as possible, so that we can have definitive leadership for Crest. This is very, very disturbing in terms of what's happening. And then in terms of policy decisions that have to be made during this time, why can't those be with us, CSSJC, because we were the ones that were put in place to make sure that all the recommendations for CSWG would be followed. And so that should be part of the interim plan. And then also, yes, 911 calls need to start immediately going to Crest, because that was one of the things that had also been recommended and that has not happened. And Crest has been ready since January to take on 911 calls. Crest is the public safety department and should be treated as such. And it has not been treated as such. Also, a program assistant for Crest should have already been hired. And we wouldn't be in this situation in terms of a transition leadership plan if that program assistant position had already been hired. And then a couple of things around the police chief is one, CSWG has recommended to the town manager to have a virtual forum. And as of right now, he has not agreed to that. And there is a need for a virtual forum because the other two were in person and a lot of people were not able to attend. And also, when the candidates are, when there's finalists, there should be two virtual forums on two different days to give people. Please finish up. I am. I know. There's three more seconds though. But anyway, thank you very much. Thank you. Brianna, please enter the room. State your name and where you live. Hi, everyone. My name is Brianna and I live in North Amherst. I have similar concerns to other folks that have called in. I am really, really concerned about the leadership that we have at Crest. One, because the police being so involved with Crest could skew its mission. But aside from that, I feel very conflicted that there's so many cooks in the kitchen. When Scott Livingstone retired, we didn't round up somebody from HR, somebody from communications, and somebody from the rec department to run his department. So under that same notion, I'm really hoping that you all can consider promoting somebody within Crest to run the department, somebody that has been there from the moment that it started. And I just want to remind you all that when CSWG envisioned Crest and when we were working on the program aspect of everything, this is why we envisioned it with an assistant director. Because this is a new program, things happen, and this is what assistant directors are for, or when leadership is needed. So I really hope that you all rethink the leadership at Crest. Thanks, Brianna. Andrew Brace, please enter the room. State your name and where you live. Hi, my name is Andrew. I live in Amherst, but I was calling on behalf of the DPW today. I work for the Department of Public Works and I'll keep it short. I want to thank a bunch of you who recently have come for a site visit. As many people are aware, the building is in terrible shape. Rain is leaking through live light fixtures and portions of the roof are collapsing. We were just hoping at DPW, and I think it's important for the public as well. It was like a better timeline, I think would be good. And some sort of schedule of updates to kind of keep this moving along and keep us involved in the know. That's it. I know you guys have had a long night. I'll keep it short. Thank you. Have a good evening. Thanks for joining us, Andrew. We are going to conclude public comment, and we are going to go to the consent agenda, which I have slightly amended, and if you'll put it up on the screen. One last hand went up right before you close public comment. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see that. Pat, please enter the room, state your name and where you live. Good evening. Can people hear me? We can. Thank you. I'll be very quick. So I want to echo what Nadine, Allegra, Deborah, and Brianna said. However, I do want to emphasize that the Town Manager consider appointing one of the Crest Responders. Most of the Responders are people of color, and this is a huge opportunity to start training them in leadership position. I'm not going to label on that. I also want to, you already received a letter, an email that I sent on behalf of my group, Black Business Association of MS Area. We are calling for the building commissioner, Rob Moran, to step down due to discriminatory practices involving Hazel nightclub that led to the business closing abruptly and was not given the same option when they were trying to rent a space. So I don't want to go into detail what I said, but I just want to make it publicly known that BBA is calling for Mr. Moran to resign. And I'm also wondering when our platforms will be distributed, there are still a lot of residents struggling in our town, a lot of businesses still struggling. When is this going to happen? Thank you. And good night. Thank you for joining us, Pat. I want to make sure I don't miss anybody. Okay, now we'll proceed with the consent agenda. And basically I've added a referral to it. So the following items and the printed motions they're under and approve those items as a single unit. I should have said to move the 2023 Puerto Rican Heritage Day Proclamation. 6b resolution in support of suicide awareness and prevention. 8c referral of town manager goal development to governance organization and legislation committee and 9a one to two approval of the following town manager appointments, community preservation, act committee and design review board. Is there anybody who wants anything removed? Seeing none. Is there a second? Second. Oh, sorry. Second. Devlin got here. Everybody's rushing. All right. With that in mind, then I'm going to begin the voting process. Shall we have a moment? Yes. In order before we do. I just noticed on the motion sheet that the proclamations don't have actual motions. Maybe it's my motion sheet. They don't. Let's allow Athena to type them in before we vote maybe. Right. We're just taking a moment's pause. We're not taking a break. Just a pause. I'm going to put these here and the motion below will match the option as presented. Okay. Okay. We've made some slight edits. Any problems? And with the record of votes, we'll show those in the minute. Thanks. Okay. Shall any bone meal? Yes. Kathy Angeles? Aye. Anna Devlin-Gothi? Aye. Lynn Griesmers? Aye. Mandy Johanicki? Aye. Nika Lopes? Aye. Michelle Miller? Aye. Dorothy Pam? Yes. Pam Rooney? Yes. Kathy Shane? Yes. Andy Steinberg? Aye. Jennifer Tob? Yes. Alicia Walker? Yes. Thank you. So I very quickly for the suicide prevention, Michelle, would you please read the last three paragraphs? Yes. And if I could just quickly add that I brought this forward last year as a proclamation and I just wanted to note that for reasons considered by GOO, we moved it to a resolution. And I also wanted to say that I hope we will build on this as a council and a community so that in future years, we can have awareness and prevention events in the community. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Amherstown Council is committed to raising awareness about suicide prevention and will work with local public health and safety officials to ensure the community has access to adequate mental health resources. Be it further resolved that the Amherstown Council urges its legislative delegation to continue to propose and support legislation that raises awareness about suicide prevention, intervention and training. Be it further resolved that the clerk of the Amherstown Council shall cause a copy of this resolution to be sent to President Joe Biden, Senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey, Representative Jim McGovern, Governor Marahili, State Senator Joe Cumberford, State Representative Mindy Dam, the Amherst Board of Health, the Amherst Chief of Police, the Amherst Fire Chief and the Director of the Crest Department. Thank you. And for the Puerto Rican Heritage Day proclamation sponsored by myself, Pam Rooney and Dorothy Pam. Now therefore, we the Amherstown Council officially proclaim September 23, 2022 as 23, I'm sorry, as Puerto Rican Heritage Day and further recognize this proclamation by raising the Puerto Rican flag from September 22 to September 29, 2022 to help cultivate awareness for all residents of Amherst. We're going to go on to action items. The Townsend Compensation Fund plan is going to be on a future agenda. The Town Manager Evaluation Timeline, it's in your packet, GOL, in fact, Pat and Mandy Joe, maybe you want to speak to the fact that you shortened the timeframe significantly. Oh, actually, Jennifer, you chaired the meeting. Go ahead. Okay. Well, Mandy chime in if I, so what GOL reviewed the timeline for the Town Manager Evaluation, which initially was in going to begin or might still begin, but it began on today, September 18, with all it would begin, you know, instruments, videos, emails being finalized, and and then sent that would be distributed to town departments and staff. And the GOL felt that we were basically dedicating more than a quarter of the year to the Town Manager Evaluation process. And I think for many of us, it felt like really we're there again, because it we literally was about eight and a half months ago. So we are proposing, and will we vote on this tonight? We don't vote. We don't. Oh, that we are proposing that we shorten the process by a month. So if you'll bear with me, where initially we were going to begin the process on September 18, we would now begin it on October 16. And I might also add that another reason for doing this is both to shorten the time period, but also to try and we're already asking the Town Manager for a self evaluation, and we are evaluating him for 12 month goals. And we're starting the process after nine months. And as it is, the Town Manager will be, you know, right, we'll be doing a self evaluation before a year is up. And so he could certainly discuss what he plans to do. There is no expectation that the Town Manager has achieved in nine months what we asked that he would do in 12. So we would like to we're proposing that the process start on October 16. And then I'm not going to go through each step. But that basically, and then what we were going to propose begin on September 26 would start on October 25. So basically everything moves up about a month. And then we also are proposing that rather than waiting till the last meeting of the year, December 18 to to take a vote on on the evaluation that we begin when we start that on December 4, hopefully completed on December 4. But if we don't, then we have the final meeting of the year. But we didn't want to rush it and have it, you know, have to take place during the last meeting. So in sum, what we are proposing is that we begin the process on October 16 and complete it on December 4. So that shortens it by about, you know, four to five weeks. And maybe we're hoping this might be a model for future years as well. Yeah, Mandy, Joe. Yeah, I just wanted to add one thing. The December 4 is where we would end it completely, but we've built in that extra meeting. Otherwise, we could start two weeks later, but then we have no leeway. So, but the one thing I really wanted to add was GOL also proposed one sort of bigger change to how the process works. We're proposing that in the new process, the town manager's self evaluation basically starts the process. And that comes out before people, residents, staff members, and all can, before they basically the same day, they get the instruments to be able to evaluate the manager's performance. So that we used to send all the, get all the evaluations. People would evaluate the manager's performance committee members, members of the public and town staff. And then Paul would, the manager would submit his self evaluation. And so we're sort of flipping that switch so that people have that self evaluation available when they are filling out the, their own evaluations, just like the counselors have that self evaluation available when we're filling it out. Are there any questions? No. Actually, Pat and I had an opportunity to meet with Paul last Friday by Zoom and discuss it with him. It was a little too incidental, but he, he knows what's going on. He actually welcomed the extra months and we encouraged Paul in his evaluation to project two months forward as to what he hopes to be able to accomplish in that extra two, in that two months. All right, with that, we are going to go. Are there any committees who need to provide updates? CRC? Are you asking for liaison? Are we on to committee reports? No, I'm, yeah. Did we skip 98? See the goals? Did you want to just, we referred? Oh, I'm sorry. We did refer in our consent agenda. We referred the town managers goals to GOL. They haven't consistently worked on them and we will find time on a future agenda to have some initial thoughts from council members about those goals so that as they start doing them, they will hear from you as well. Is there any question about that? Okay. Now, we're already done nine. So now we're going to go to committee and liaison reports. CRC? Just this Thursday, CRC is holding the public hearing on the proposed adoption of the specialized code. So we'll be holding the public hearing. This is the stretch code. The specialized code. Specialized. Thank you. We've already adopted as a town the stretch code. Yep. Thank you. That'd be a good time. Kathy, you had a question on that? Yeah. Mandy, would that have you posted any frequently asked questions and answers with that? It got posted today. Okay. So there's a new document in the packet. Thank you. As of about six-ish. Kathy, elementary school building. We, what I stated I think a week ago is that we're going to meet on September 29th to get the cost estimates, so the updated cost estimates. They've been somewhat delayed. It's just too tight a schedule so we're searching for another meeting date. It looks like October 5th, a Thursday we'll meet, we'll be able to. And just so people know what this is, this is an interim estimate that goes with the design detail and a whole report then gets sent to the MSBA. So the report will be full of pictures and graphs and much more detail. The estimates are an update. So one thing I might say on a positive note, but we won't know till we get the numbers is the reports are from some other recent school cost estimates that we have a more positive picture happening out there in purchasing land than we did a year ago or six months ago. So again, we won't know on our own, but Springfield and Western Massachusetts, a couple have been instead of astonished and dismayed, then it was more positive. But we'll get those, they have to, we get two cost estimates and they have to get reconciled and that reconciliation will be around September 27th, 28th. So the design team will have them, but they have to pull them back together again. Alicia, you popped your hand up and then took it back down. Yeah, I think what I my comment would probably be better suited at the end in topics like not anticipated within 48 hours. So I'm just going to wait. Thank you, Lynn. Okay. Finance committee, Andy. The finance committee is two meetings in a row on Friday afternoon, and I rushed to get one piece reported to you for today's meeting, but we're not discussing it tonight. It's not action that needs to happen tonight. It just seemed appropriate since there was a motion on it, which was the compensation question that was referred after the town manager and former finance directors memorandum about options was referred to us. The other issue that we've spent quite a bit of time with is the question of the fee structure for rental registration. And there were a number of questions that came up during the discussion that we're trying to understand the cost of providing the service in order to come up with the fee structure that would match the cost. And we really, in our discussion, appreciated even more how difficult the task was that CRC had undertaken and why they were looking for the finance committee to help, but the interconnection between the policy issues and of what it is that we're seeking to achieve and the cost issues, which then lead to the fee structure issues, became very complicated. And so what we did in the last meeting was framed a series of questions that we really thought needed to get back to CRC's attention so that we weren't in the position of the finance committee acting as a second CRC, but trying to do the role that we were asked to do. So with apologies to CRC, we essentially asked for some more help from you guys and Mandy when she gives her report can comment further because she attended the last couple of meetings for the finance committee. It was very helpful for our discussion. Any comments on that? GOL? Pat? Yeah, I don't have a lot to add. We've been working on rules of procedure. We are going to try to finish that up in the next meeting or so and we're going to be bringing those rules forward to the new council instead of this council voting on the final rules. Okay. On Jones Library Building Committee, Annika? The next Jones Library Building Committee meeting will be on the 27th at 1 p.m. in the Woodbury room. TSO, Anna, you chaired the last meeting. Sure did. All right. Sorry. It's 10.14. I did chair the last TSO meeting. We had a great time. We did have a great time. We did miss you, Annika. But we did. We got an update on the proposed bylaw regarding refuse collection recyclable materials and that is that the request for information is out, which is really exciting. So that's a big step in that process that's been taken. So we'll wait through with bated breath for the next update on that. We also voted the council will be seeing something soon that was referred to TSO from the prior council, which is acceptance of provisions of mass general law chapter 90 section 18b. And this is the provision that would allow us to enact or to establish safety zones around certain areas in town that meet qualifications set out by that law. And obviously there are many more steps in the process, but it was really exciting to be able to go through this and find a process that we are able to start down that helps to fix problems that we've been hearing about such as the ones around the cushioned school. So that was an exciting one. And I'm looking forward to that discussion at the council level. We made technically three appointments, but appointments to two different committees, which you all approved earlier today on consent. And and then we heard from a count of shalony views first names, shalony from about a community engagement plan proposal and discuss that for the bulk of the meeting, where in shalony is going to bring back a slightly revised plan that has a checklist of ways for counselors or committees to think about proposals to ensure that we've got robust engagement from proposals that are moving forward through our council. And if I missed anything during the Andy or shalony that you'd like to add, but I feel like that kind of covered what we did. And do you get anything else you want to add as chair? No, I think I'll cover it. And thank you. Thank you for sharing. Okay. Michelle HRA. Sure. The committee approved its final report today in our meeting and we hope to publish the report next Tuesday, September 26th in time to present it to the town council on October 2nd. Okay. Leah's on reports. Jennifer. Yeah, I'll try and be brief. The Amherst affordable housing trust met last Thursday. I do want to add they meet monthly. So sometimes we meet before they've, you know, I don't have something to report each meeting, but it is very hard to report on the housing trust briefly, you know, to provide a summary because what they do is so substantive. I'm actually, they really get into the nitty gritty and have really substantive discussions on a wide range of issues. So just briefly, they had a presentation by one of the housing trust members who had done research on co-housing and home sharing, specifically looking at broadening housing options specifically for seniors, which as our senior population grows in Amherst, it couldn't be more timely. It was very interesting. So hopefully maybe there'll be a report or I just like to refer you to watch their recordings of the meetings, but I know no one has the time for that. But they are also submitting an application to the Massachusetts housing partnership to have a grant to apply for a technical assistance grant to help support facilitating their meetings. And I think community meetings as well. They had a whole discussion about how you count affordable housing units. And a member of the trust, I think, met with Chris Brestroff and where we say we have 10% and we do according to how the state or the Commonwealth asks municipalities to report it, that we're probably more around 8.3%. I mean, we still do, I mean, we're not where we want to be. We do better than many municipalities, but it's actually a very interesting discussion to try and get an accurate count of the number of affordable units we actually have. And then there were some interesting public comments and one was by a student at the university who really wanted to work with the housing trust and the town around issues of housing. So I think that conversation will start and that also couldn't be more timely. So that's it, but I probably haven't scratched the surface. Are there any other liaison reports? Dorothy? Okay, you heard a number of points from members of CSSJC and public comment tonight. And you heard those concerns, but I'll just repeat one aspect of the meeting, which was the noting of the passing of Demetria Shabazz, who has played such a major role in Amherst, and it should be noted. That's it. Thank you. Thank you, Dorothy. A real loss to our community. Any other liaison reports? Paul, town manager report, and it's not written this time, but are there comments you want to make? Yeah, there are a couple of things I want to bring up. One is just in terms of the SHI, which is the state housing inventory, we are at the percentage we are. I think we should not be looking at that in terms of a lower percent, unless all the other cities and towns look at it as a lower percent to start to compare Amherst and saying we're going to fiddle with that number and then say, well, Hadley is at a bigger number. We just have to be looking at apples to apples. And it seems like we're trying to look at apples to oranges. So I hope that we, and I know the committee recognizes it, but it's important information. I think it's valuable information that the trust is looking at. But just so the public understands that everybody's playing by the same rules. I appreciate the comments tonight on the police chief search. So our police chief search consultants have been in town. Now this is their third day in town or virtually today and tomorrow. We have, these are top shelf people who are consultants on this field. One is a former police officer. One is a DEI expert. They have been really, they work as a team. They're conducting the city of Somerville's search for a new police chief as well. But I think, you know, the comments that they've already shared with me, even though they're still in the middle of talking with many of you, I know is we need more listening sessions. And I think that's that was said tonight. We need more virtual listening sessions because some people are concerned about coming into certain spaces, or there's something valid. There's some really good COVID concerns as well. They understand that there needs to be more transparency in the process. And that's on me to make that happen. And we need to be understanding the role in the process for the advisory screening committee. And with all that, I will be learning you that this is going to take longer because we have to do more engagement. I think that's something we want to do. We want to get this right. I will be coming to you in the near future asking for an extension. My goal is to still get it done as quickly as possible. We want to get it done, but we want to get it done right. There's a lot of interest in this, and this is a very, very important position for the town. So more listening sessions, more transparency, better sort of connection with the public. And those are all the things that we'll be working on. For the Cress update, so we, the Cress directors on paid administrative leave, as everyone knows, in the, but we've noticed that we know that there needs to be a leadership structure there. This is an important, fairly large department that definitely needs a leadership. And the leadership was not going to come from within as many people suggested. That was not an option available to us. So in searching for a solution for that, we've established a leadership team that's being led by our DEI director, Pamela Nolan Young, and who has chief Tim Nelson and Sergeant Janet Griffin of the Amherst police department, and has Cat Newman. So three of the four are people of color, which I think is one of the things that we've always tried to do with this, with this department and have it be minority, majority. And really proud that these four individuals have stepped up and said they were willing to help lead this. This is an interim thing. It's not permanent. We don't want this, none of them want this to be permanent. This is sort of modeled on how we set the implementation team up when we had the co-chairs of the CSWG and other members of the CSWG. We had the police chief, the fire chief, and what, who is now our assistant DEI director involved. The team's composition is purposeful. It includes departments that align with Cress's values and mission and public safety, but also in DEI. The DEI department brings an anti-racist mission to their work, and that's very important. Police are important to have involved in this, and I know that that's the hot point here. The key piece for us is we want this department to begin accepting 911 calls. 911 dispatchers are located in the police department. We need to have a successful working relationship with the 911 dispatchers in order to get those calls initiated. That's our mission. That's our holy grail. We're moving in that direction. And with good communication among all three public safety agencies, I think we're going to get there. The leadership team will meet weekly, and Pamela and Nolan Young is located right next door to the Cress department. She's already making changes now, improving their workspace and things like that. So, and the goal here is to continue to build the relationships with the community members, but ultimately, we do want to have a unitary leader who's going to be running that department, and that's where we want to go. And lastly, I have to address a comment made by Ms. Monobacu. Our town employees, especially our building inspector and their building commissioner, do their jobs with the utmost of professionalism, care, and understanding of the situation that they're walking into. The building commissioner enforces the building code fairly and without favoritism. The fire department enforces the fire code fairly and without favoritism. Their jobs are important, especially with a nightclub. We may have to make sure that the fire codes and the electrical codes and the plumbing codes and the ADA codes are all followed. Both conductive professional duties to protect the public safety. They have a hard job, and I think we all know that, and I've dealt with building inspectors myself. It's not an easy job, but they do it exceptionally well. Ms. Monobacu's claims are false. Blaming the town for the failure of a business that failed to meet its financial obligations is wrong. These claims were investigated. There was a complaint filed about this. These claims were investigated by the town's human rights director based on this complaint, and the conclusion of that report, which is available to the public, is based on the statements made by all parties, and the documents presented. It appears the process and acts of the town's employees and those of the bid were not discriminatory as the town required both parties, meaning the bid and hazels, to have a ramp that met ADA standards. So, careless accusations that are not based on facts are unacceptable for town employees, and it's damaging to our employees. It endangers their professional careers and their personal lives, and it's all because they're doing their jobs. Complaints are welcomed. If there's someone who has a complaint about something, please bring it to me. Every town employee works for me. Bring it to me. You can make all the complaints you want about me. That's fine. That goes with this territory, and the complaint was brought. The town did investigate it, and I read the conclusion of that. The facts of this instance have been established. What's being created is a false narrative, a false equivalency. While people may be entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts, and so I just want to apologize to building commissioner Rob Mora. He is a tremendous public employee. You all have had the chance to work with him. You recognize what an honorable, fair, open-minded person he is, and to tarnish his reputation with an accusation like it was made tonight is just offensive to me. Thank you. Are there any questions at this time? Alicia? Thank you. I have a couple of questions. My first question is just, Mr. Baucherman, when you were talking about the leadership for Cress, you said that it was not an option for an internal candidate to be considered for the leadership, and I'm wondering if you can tell me why. I'm happy to have that conversation with you, Alicia. There are a number of personnel issues in play right now, and I just can't speak about them in public, but I'm happy to have that conversation directly with you, and I know you have a lot of interest and care about this department. Okay, so yeah, I'd be happy to have a private conversation with you, and I can ask most of my other questions in that setting, and I do not intend to be disrespectful because I do feel quite the heightened emotion in the room right now, but I do want to just explicitly state that institutional racism can also be professional. Yes. Dorothy? Do we have any time limit for the leave of the director of Cress? A lot of time has gone by. In this scope of things, when we look at it through our attorneys, not a lot of time has gone by when you're doing an investigation by an outside investigator. We do want to wrap it up as quickly as possible. We're trying to get there. Yeah. Thank you. Pat. I have wanted to talk about the police chief search, and I appreciate that it's being extended. I am very interested in having members of the public who live in the housing fraud, large housing complexes on East Hadley Road and other areas of Amherst that they'd be spoken with, and what I did Saturday was to go to the mobile market and ask the questions that the consultants had asked us at the library, and I then shared that in my meeting with her today, but I really, because I'm part of the mobile market community, there were people there who could translate for me because I don't speak Spanish, really need to take a translator with you in many of these instances and not just Spanish, but really reach out so that we have an understanding of a range of socioeconomic differences and people when we're looking at our chief. I appreciate that. We will. Thank you. And thank you for your words tonight, Michelle. I just, I feel it's important to say that I, while I do have a lot of respect for Rob Mora and appreciate Paul what the concerns that you brought forward. I have just a a strong feeling of discomfort that a member of our public exercised their right to speak in public comment and to express their opinion and that you as the town manager and the person who has a lot of power right now in the position that you sit in would respond to those comments, you know, in such a way and I empathize with where you're coming from and wanting to protect and uphold the reputation of one of your employees who is dearly respected, but I just feel really uncomfortable with how that transpired and I think that our public needs to feel comfortable coming and expressing their views and exercising their voice without feeling like somebody in the position of power that we're in would publicly rebuke them for doing so and I just, I just, you know, I think I would never intend to speak for that public commenter but the way that I understand it is that it's not about the person of Rob Mora, it's about the structures that can sometimes lead to circumstances of racism and that it's our duty to, like we are with the director of Cress, even sometimes to go to an external source to investigate a situation and I can't say that I know every detail of what occurred here but I just felt it was important to share that. Thank you. Are there any other questions of the town manager? We're going to go to town council comments. I hope to have a written president's report by October 2nd. We're still juggling agendas as we have tonight but on the October 2nd we will have the report from AHRA and Michelle I just want to mention that if your committee is going to attend as a forum we need to make sure it's posted. Yeah, I was hoping to have a conversation with you this week about the plan. Yes, absolutely. Mandy Jo. Yeah, as we talk about the AHRA report being, and I assume it will be in the packet for the October 2nd meeting, I'm curious what other documents from AHRA will be in the packet specifically will AHRA be publishing the survey responses or any analysis of the survey that they completed and will that be in the packet? Yes, I think Kathy asked a similar question last week. So the appendix will include the full survey results as well as the analysis that the Dunahue Institute completed as well as lots of other documents. So it I mean all in all it's probably a hundred page report with the appendix. So that will all be included in one PDF and then I'm going to work with Lynn on the slideshow presentation that we will also be using. So the report will be to the council next Tuesday. The slideshow may be more like Thursday, but I commit to Thursday for the slideshow to be ready. Thank you, Dorothy. I want to add to some of the things Michelle said in the discussion, the issue that was brought up by Ms. Pat. This is we've just been talking past each other for a very long time. Questions are raised and I don't feel they get answered. Now maybe they're answered to the satisfaction of some people, but not very clear. For example, why somebody does a temporary ramp and somebody can't open their business for eight weeks because it has to be a permanent ramp. That does seem to be kind of contradictory. We're told that the big money towards the Drake was a different ARPA. Now maybe it was. I'm not saying it wasn't, but I don't understand it. We have this thing called ARPA and if there's different funds, so questions are raised but not answered in ways that people understand. So I do not want to put a bad motive to Ms. Pat. I believe that she is calling attention to something that she regards wasn't fair. It may be that according to the rules it was, but it has not been explained in a way that I understand and I know that she has ended saying that there is still some more ARPA money and there still needs to be more distribution. I mean, it does seem that a new, a struggling business that was perhaps underfunded didn't do everything perfectly. Well, they asked for help. I mean, do you have to be perfect to get help? I thought that some of ARPA was to help people who were struggling. So it may be that, I mean, because I do trust Paul, that everything he said is true. All I can tell you is it's not clear. It's not clear to me. It's not clear to Ms. Pat. I do not put any evil motives to her. I do understand your strong defense of Rob Mora. I have no reason to suspect anything except good things from him, but I will say that it has not been clear. So it's just talking past each other continually and that's not good. And so what we have is a racial climate, which is not getting better. We have the director of Cress on a long, long term leave. We don't know what's going on. We have questions about ARPA that have been raised and not answered in ways that are understandable by some of the people who have asked the questions. That's not good. So whatever high ideals we set, we still have to find ways to talk to people so they understand what is really going on and that we are clear with each other because I don't like it when people that I like are at each other's throats. I don't like that and we don't need it. Thank you. Are there any other councilor comments? See none. Are there any other? I'm going to ask one more time for councilor comments and then we're going to adjourn the meeting. I'm sorry. Topics not anticipated. I'm not aware of any, but we'll find out. Alicia mentioned. Thank you. I'm sorry. Anika. I'm going to hold for a minute. I'd like to let Alicia go ahead. Alicia? Thank you. I'll be very brief because to be completely honest, I'm super tired and have a limited capacity to even speak eloquently right now or like make lots of sense. But I did want to bring up something that's like been really challenging for me just in terms of like my demographic and who I am and serving on the council. And one of those things has been being able to participate in my other councilor committees on a regular basis, which has been extremely difficult for me as like a single parent being the only person responsible for any of the financial responsibilities in my entire household and having to work. And I feel very fortunate that I work a job where I don't have to work on Fridays. And so I can sort of be advocating for myself in committees to have our meetings beyond Fridays. And I think, you know, the finance committee has been really willing to work with me and the finance committee members have been great in terms of trying to make sure I'm included in all things. But also understanding that since Friday is my only day off of the week that that's also the only day where I can have doctors appointments. And I have three children. So that's four people that I need to be making sure like we have our shots. We're going to the dentist. We're doing all of these things. And it's really overwhelming. And it becomes increasingly more difficult when other committees are not consistent with their meeting times. So for example, the elementary school building committee saying we're going to meet on Thursday instead of Friday is extremely challenging for me because I don't have Thursday off. And I understand that all other committee members are able to make that change. But it's not it's that's not the case for me. And for me, this is becoming an equity issue and an accessibility issue. And because I'm the only one affected, nobody seems to be caring about that. But I care because I care about the things that I'm working on and I care about being able to advocate for the committees that I am a part of. And so this is something that I hope that we can have a more thoughtful discussion about at the council level. Because I imagine that this would be equally as challenging for another single parent if they were to be on the council. And I think that there needs to be a more broader understanding of the challenges that it is to really be navigating and balancing all of these meetings and all of these things and with taking care of a family on my own and still wanting to be able to participate. And so I'm bringing this up again, because I've had an extremely difficult time attending the elementary school building committee meetings. I don't feel like my voice has been heard in terms of advocating for myself when I cannot meet the ever changing dates and times of these meetings that the last two meetings have changed the last minute. And I would have been able to attend the original the originally scheduled times, but they have been changed last minute to other times that I cannot attend and nobody seems to care because everybody else can make those changes. And so I just want to bring that issue to light and I'm hoping that we may be able to think collectively about how to prevent these things from happening for other people in the future. Thank you, Alicia. Anika? Yes, I am also quite tired, but I support what Alicia just said in terms of being creative. I mean, we're not all, you know, of cookie cutter mold here. I mean, you have a lot of people that do not work like your traditional nine to five or eight, 30 to four and have loads of responsibilities. So I definitely support the idea of being creative just to make sure that maybe we have, we're thinking in the beginning of setting these schedules of what works best for the long haul without abrupt changes that is that are hard for many to navigate. And I just want to touch on the fact that I think just we in our remaining time and hopefully for the next council that, you know, we can just be a little bit more mindful when it has come to the public funding and the discussions that we've had and we've been going on about these discussions have been going on for months. And we as a council have had numerous opportunities to bring facts to the table and to bring people who everyone who was involved around these issues to the table, whether that was in a meeting or whether that was just allowing for comments to come to be incredibly transparent. And we have denied those opportunities. Some have even said we don't want to bring facts to the table because there's a winner and a loser, you know, and it's not really about winning or losing, but there are certain things that we have receipts for. And when we have conflicting information on one subject or on one issue, what went wrong or what didn't go wrong, of course, there's going to be differences of opinions. But at the end of the day, we've had more information and facts that we could have brought forward some time ago. Maybe when this was more of a campfire, we had some buckets of water that maybe could have calmed and explained and then a bit more transparent to the public than waiting for it to be a wildfire. And then when we do have someone speak up, this is what happens. So I think that, you know, going forward, there is a heck of a lot that we could learn from this situation about what information that we know good and well as council members that we could have brought and provided a bit more of transparency through the facts that we had, that doesn't mean it was everything and that doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been disagreements and people wouldn't have been happy. But I think we could have, you know, avoided what is now an onion, you know, and it's just very hard to get through the layers and the core of what had happened. So I also hope that's something that we consider in the future. We all know every last one of us know here that we could have brought some facts forward earlier. Are there any other councilor comments? Seeing none, the meeting is adjourned at 1046.