 at ServiceNow Knowledge 14 is sponsored by ServiceNow. Here are your hosts, Dave Vellante and Jeff Frick. We're back, we're here at Knowledge 14 in Moscone South. Stop in and see us when you come into Moscone South, just look right and we're right there at the top of the escalator. Accenture is here, Bill McVicker is the managing director at Accenture. One of the things that we've noted about ServiceNow Knowledge is the ecosystem expansion. And when you go to the big events, example would be Oracle Open World. You see the large system integrators there, the world-class companies that have deep industry expertise that are global in size, massive domain expertise across the globe, and so Bill, welcome to theCUBE. It's great to see you guys here at ServiceNow. Thanks, it's been great. Yeah, so as I was saying, Accenture is, I don't know, if I had to pick the top three or four, you guys would be right in that list, as I say with global capabilities, domain expertise, subject matter expertise, industry expertise, you guys, you got it all. And you have the added benefit of being essentially technology agnostic. I mean, that's really one of your key value propositions. We are, but we certainly are enthused about ServiceNow. I mean, we pick some winners and we think this is a winner. So we are investing a lot of time, effort, practice to really step up in ServiceNow. But you don't sell your own mutual funds, I should put it that way. We don't do that. So let's start with your involvement in the ServiceNow community. When did it start and what was the catalyst? We actually started, 2009 was our first real project, but we signed a global agreement in 2012, really stepped up in 12 and 13. So building the practice, we've got commitment all the way through the organization, this is an area that we want to focus on. So we're building the practice and offerings and we've got a great relationship with ServiceNow. I would imagine, I mean, it's interesting when you hear ServiceNow talk about the sort of marketing messaging, it goes, they go through IT. They do. Now you guys do a lot with IT, but you do a lot with the board too. I mean, you got board level contact. So that would seem to dovetail nicely. Their strategy is to expand beyond IT into the business, but through IT, you're everywhere in the organization. And oftentimes you start at the board, right? We do, so we have to be conscious that we've got the relationships within IT and at the CIO level. That is where ServiceNow wants to start. But as we start to expand and after we kind of land in IT and move out into the business, that's where we can really tap into our industry experts. We bring folks in from that particular industry, team up with our IT folks with our ServiceNow folks and really bring a complete solution to our clients. You know what I'm going to ask you a question sort of off the cuff here, because one of the things that a lot of Wall Street analysts struggle with is the total available market for ServiceNow. When you think about it, you know, it started, you've probably heard this story, it started with, and Frank talks about this, you know, $1.5 billion market and help task and then people started to think about IT service management. It's like, wow, it's some multiple of that. But that multiple can be pretty significant. When you think of the IT spending, it's big. A trillion dollar business or maybe even more. But when you think about all the business activity that goes on, it's certainly a larger than 2x multiple of what's going on in IT. It could be four, five, six, even 10x. Is that unreasonable? It's not. So the great combination is taking the service management expertise that we have built over 20 years and starting to apply that in other areas outside of IT. That's what you're hearing at ServiceNow at the conference and we are on board to do that. So let's start with this concept that you talked about off camera which is intelligent infrastructure. What do you mean by intelligent infrastructure? So we know that this new world, this ubiquitous world is really founded on infrastructure. So as we start to move out, everything touches everything and we are based in infrastructure. So we understand that the infrastructure has to start getting smarter. It has to be self-aware. It has to understand how it's provisioning to its clients. What can we automate? And as we wrap our service management around that, it becomes more and more complex. So we're really driving our clients to think about how do I make my infrastructure smarter and smarter? And when we talk about infrastructure, so we're not just talking about servers and storage and networking. We're talking about potentially internet of things and turbines and windmills and the like. As we start to move outside of IT, again we apply that same concept to the infrastructure of business, absolutely. So you're clearly seeing this notion of programmable infrastructure hit the IT world with DevOps culture. Where do you think we are with other machines? Are there headwinds? Are engineers going to allow the instrumentation and connection to their devices, their machines? Are they, is there a new security paradigm? What are your customers talking about there? Well, as we start to move into this hybrid world where more and more of IT is sitting outside the walls of IT, it really starts to bring some interesting paradigms. So as we apply service management to that, as a great example, how do I provide service when 50% or 70% of my service is not supplied within the walls? How do I front end that to my end customers? It's very interesting and obviously service now is a great platform to start to do that. So you're by inference, you're talking about and how do you maintain the sort of edicts of the organization, the policies, the security, the compliance, all that stuff and make a consistent experience so that you can tell the board, yes, we have this covered. Right, governance security is obviously huge and paramount in that type of environment, but also just the customer experience. So we're trying to move into an experience where customers can click and order and they've got a catalog, but now I'm front-ending a catalog where 50% of the service is set outside my organization. So how do I do that? How do I cost and price that? I mean, all of those things are highly complex. And how does the CIO deal with that added level of complexity plus the challenge that they need to be more of a business-minded thought process and the way that they attack their day-to-day life? It seems like there's so much stuff coming at these guys and how do you help them figure it out, prioritize? What do they do first? Well, again, I mean, people are used to this new customer experience. I go to Amazon, I know what it feels like. So they want that same experience from their internal folks. So we're really pushing our clients to start thinking about the customer experience. What do they want? How do they want to provision? How do they want to order things? So we're applying that to all of IT and then naturally we can move from IT out into the business. But how receptive are they? It's interesting, Fred brought up XP and Explorer Six as being this huge enterprise gate to this implementation that now is finally falling down. But Enterprise IT's been able to get that off of their standards list for a while and they haven't. So are they really willing to take these gambles, take these risks, get out ahead of the curve amongst all the other things they have going on? I think the customers are requiring it. They are absolutely requiring it. I mean to the point where customers will go elsewhere. When I can go out to Amazon, why do I need you? So they have to start thinking, how can I continue to be relevant to my customers? If they don't, they will be obsolete. So it has to be a priority for them. I mean they just don't have a choice anymore. So you've got this sort of more intelligent infrastructure. You're tying it into a service management with a service management framework throughout the entire organization, consistent experience. Where do you see clients, you have a big observation space globally. Where do you see, can you describe the maturity model for us? We had Jeffrey Moore on yesterday. We all now think of these bell curves and the castings and the like. How do you look at the maturity model? Well it's funny because typically we see clients starting out with this automation and kind of this consolidation. So let's consolidate, let's talk about infrastructure. Let's consolidate our infrastructure. Then after they've gone through consolidation, then they start to move into automation. So what can I automate? What can I pull the human part out of? So after automation, now they get to service orientation. They're starting to think, I have to be able to automate and provide that customer experience. And finally we get into this intelligence where all of that's happening behind the scenes, untouched by human hands. So we actually see a lot of our clients frankly at the automation level. Starting to move into service orientation but a lot of folks just haven't got there yet. Yeah, so consolidation is kind of getting your arms around everything. And obviously there's going to be cost savings that go there. But automation is where you're starting to take labor costs out. And then service orientation is when you're starting to hit the business value button. It's like the ATM, you're just cranking away. And then that's where the multiplicative effects seem to come in. Are there examples where you're seeing that, the early adopters where they're really starting to drive business value in ways that are measurable? Yeah, I mean traditionally where clients have really just, they've rung every last efficiency out. They're the ones sitting in the automation. They've kind of finished up automation. I can't really get any more efficiency dollars out. So now they're looking at, okay, how can I become more customer focused, that service orientation? Again, if they don't do that very soon, they will be, this won't be relevant anymore. I'm struck by how many times you keep using the word customer. And for an internal IT department to really start to think of themselves as a customer service organization to their internal customer. Have you seen that kind of mind shift change because of their customers have all these alternate places that they could shop versus running down the hall to their IT guys? We definitely have seen a change. And again, it depends on the organization where they are on that maturity curve. But we're seeing more and more organizations really getting focused in on the customer service aspect. That's my background. I mean, I come from a customer service for IT background. So we've been pitching this for years. But finally, the really big, the Fortune 2000 companies, they've made that mind switch that if we don't do this, we'll be irrelevant. So there has been a big drive in the past, let's say three or five years. Okay. Do you have some, I wish we were tight on time here, but do you have sort of a favorite example where they can name the customer or not? Maybe you could talk about the industry. Somebody who's really sort of at that service orientation. So heavy into the automation, maybe getting into the service orientation. I do. So we went to a very large financial services company and not uncommon to probably what you would see in any IT organization. We walked in the door. We said, what are the services you provide? I mean, that's kind of a basic question that any business would know and understand. And they pulled out 15 to 20 different catalogs, 700 items, 80 to 90% of those unrecognizable by their customers. And not used. And not used. So we quickly said to be relevant with your customers, we've got to determine what are your services and get those in terms that they understand that they care about. And we went from 700 to 23 core services. Wow. With some sub-services under that, but 23 services that their customers understood, they could order via catalog, they could price, they could wrap their service levels around. So I mean, the customers love that. And that's probably everywhere, right? That situation is right in a lot of ways. It is almost everywhere we walk into. Well, that's what the IT organization must look like in the future. Otherwise, it's just not going to be able to deliver services and be competitive. And it's not going to work. That's right. There's going to be no alignment. It'll be too expensive. And that's a dinosaur model, right? So, all right, Bill. Well, thank you very much for coming on theCUBE where we got to leave it right there. It was a real pleasure having you on. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Good luck with the initiatives. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. We're here live at Moscone. This is theCUBE.