 Today, I'm going to be interviewing a career purpose coach for women and her name is Michelle Olson and we're going to be talking about issues that are particularly relevant to professional women, things such as sexism in the workplace, the importance of boundaries, sensitivity and career transition. So before I bring Michelle on, let me go ahead and share with you her bio. So Michelle Olson coaches wise, sensitive, care-taking women to find clarity and to activate their souls purpose, especially during career and life transition. She is a certified professional co-active coach and has a master's degree in organizational psychology. She held a corporate job in sales for 12 years before making her own soul-satisfying transition into coaching and Michelle is a fierce advocate for women, generating purpose-driven work to both combat sexism and create a more personal and professionally fulfilling life. Michelle, welcome and thank you so much for doing this interview. Hi, George. Thank you. It's good to be with you. Yeah, so one of the things you actually, I'll start with this, in your bio, there's a phrase, career-life transition. What do you, tell us what you mean by that. That's a good question. Because I work holistically with my clients, what I often see is that when a woman is making a transition in her work, whether it's to go into a new industry or create something on her own, it up levels all of life. And so I was just on a client call earlier today and we were discussing how we're in the middle of this global pandemic and she's been working hard at transitioning from being a midwife in a hospital to now doing her own business. And it's up-leveling every part of her life, like where they should live, where, you know, what's next in regards to their children's school. And I see this often, it's, you know, transition isn't compartmentalized, it typically starts, it's activated in one area, but then it easily can up-level all the different, or uproot really is the word, uproot all the different areas of our life. Yeah, and it's especially helpful to have a coach to kind of work with on this transition, really big, like you said, it spreads into these different areas. So one of the things, you work with clients on different things and including, you know, of course, career life transition and we'll talk more about that, but also sort of how they relate to others in their work, you know, co-workers, bosses, if they have any. So, you know, there's some issues that come up with that, including sexism, you know, boundaries, sensitivities, but I'll let you kind of start with whichever of those that you'd like to. Yeah, I've been more vocal about this in the past few years around sexism and internalized sexism for women, both at work and in life, and mainly I've become more vocal about it because it was something I noticed I was working with with my clients one to one, but I was seeing any time I start to see universal themes and you've taught me this, George, like any time we start to see universal themes, it's worth speaking out about and so I've been talking more about it in the past couple years. And often, because I work with women who tend to be heart-based, you know, a really strong connection with their sensitivity, a lot of times what I'm hearing is they'll be in a meeting and they'll have something to say and they won't speak up and when we start to look at, well, what's holding them back? It's often because they're only one of two women in the room, the rest are men, or it's because they were told when they were younger, either through society or maybe even their parents, that their voice didn't matter as much. So that's one sign of, you know, sexism that hits women, you know, we can internalize that, like any oppression, we can internalize that oppression to be our truth when it's not and so it takes, you know, we have to unravel it like a ball of yarn. Another thing is there's a great book called The Confidence Code and these two journalists did, they were two successful women and they said, why do, as women, why do we struggle so much with our confidence? And so they went down this road of investigating and what they found is that women often feel like they have to work four times harder than a man. So if there's a meeting that's prep, you know, preparing for a meeting or a presentation, women will often put way more time into it than a man. And the other side of it is that confidence, you know, they looked at DNA, they went to see if it was like something that was passed down through generational ancestry. And really what they found at the end of the day, just to sum up the book, I still recommend reading it if you want to. But what they really found out is the only way to really build confidence is to take action. And so it's almost like it's the biggest contradiction to internalize sexism or to sexism is to just keep taking action against anything that's holding you back, whether that's, you know, something in your head telling you you don't matter enough or your voice doesn't matter enough or your value isn't there. And taking the action anyway, you know. Yeah, wow, that's really good. Thank you for kind of giving us a very quick, quick summary of the book. And so it's interesting. So the antidote to lack of confidence is to take action, but that very action is what's scary and the hardest thing to do. So that woman, for example, who is in a workplace and isn't speaking up. And I know you have coached many clients around this. What, what can they do? I mean, yes, okay, take action. But that's the very thing that's hard for them. Great question. So anything I do, I always say take slow. I'm not, you know, let's take baby steps. And so usually what if someone comes to me and they're saying they're having a hard time speaking up at a business meeting, or a meeting in general, where they feel like they have some important ideas to share. I start with just having them write down those ideas in the meeting. Right, just write them down. You don't even have to speak them first, just write them down. And part of that is to help connect the idea that's in their brain with, you know, with their voice. And so start the, you know, writing is a voice. So start by writing it down. And then the next step is finding just one thing that you can say, right. So oftentimes, a lot of the women I work with tend to be introverts too. And so it's hard. You know, we live in a very extroverted world. You and I have talked about this before George. And so it's really hard for introverts to find space because extroverts can talk really fast and move fast and for introverts. They usually need about five to seven seconds between a question and the answer. So it's finding that space to just speak up, just one thing, right, to start there. And then usually, you know, like a recent client started doing that and she got feedback, thanks for what you shared in that meeting. And so then that builds the confidence to then maybe say two things the next meeting, right. And not just to be clear, it's not just to speak to speak, but you are taking those ideas that you've written down and that are valuable and, you know, adding value into the conversation that's happening in the meeting. Yeah, that's very good. That's very helpful. Action steps that I think probably some people watching this can take. And part of the internalized sexism and confidence, what's related also is boundaries. And boundaries is one of those issues that once we start looking at it, we go, wow, yeah, there's a lot there. And if we don't look at it, it kind of, it can really make our life quite chaotic and difficult. So tell us what you, how you look at boundaries. Why is that important. So, I think boundaries is one way to think about boundaries, I think for caretaking sensitive women is to first realize that when you're setting a boundary, it's for yourself, the boundaries for yourself often is caretaking women we can always be thinking of the other right like Yeah, and by caretaking women, you don't necessarily mean they literally are caretaking someone at home. No, but it's more the way that they tend to relate. Is that right? Exactly. Because a really good point. So, you know, I tend to work my clients are half and half so I work with half moms, and then I work with half women who are single but I find that they care take the people in their world whether that's their family and it's not exactly what you said it's not caretaking in the sense of like somebody is has an health element and they're working through that it's more just the idea of they think of others they're very thoughtful of others. They put their time and intention on others right. And so, when you're first thinking about a boundary, I think it's really important to remember that you're doing it for yourself right. And if you are someone who tends to be relational and like to think about others and really values connection. If you want to sustain your energy you have to have boundaries. There's no way that if you're not creating boundaries in your life with your time and who you hang out with and who you give your time to you're not going to sustain healthy mind body spirit. You're going to hurt yourself. And so, if you can frame it that the boundary is in service for yourself it's really the highest form of self compassion. And that's a good place to start. I mean, and some boundaries are really obvious right like maybe there is a co worker that asks a lot of you and you're just frankly tired of it. That might be an easier boundary to grasp it first. But then there's boundaries like, are you giving away your time, right are you giving are you going over time in meetings when you have another meeting to go to and then that makes you late for the next meeting. So the boundary is you know I'm going to end the meeting at two, and then I'm going to move on to the next one. Another boundary could be, you know, maybe you're someone who's who has an active social life right. But you need time to yourself, especially if you're an introvert. And so when you start your calendar system you put yourself at the center. You put your like what do you need to do to take care of yourself before you start adding other things in. Yeah, these are all really helpful thoughts on boundaries and I know you have a. You, you coach clients one to one about it but you also have a women's circle that you run as a virtual women's circle. And I'm sure you guys, you know, you guys cover that right and talk about it. You mentioned introvert and I just want to share, you know, what I know about your expertise and training you know Myers Briggs very well. The personality typing system that a lot of us have gotten tested in or kind of grew up in some way like having heard hearing about extroversion introversion, you know, that kind of thing thinking feeling that kind of. So that's so you know that really well that system and you also know the Enneagram personality typing system really well so that's some of the things you bring to your clients and your coaching. And the other thing you mentioned was introvert caretaking introverted sensitive women so sensitivity. Talk to us about that. What is what do you how do you see that and is when when when women who are sensitive to how how much do they know that. And how much are they labeled that by others. If you're sensitive you know it. It's essentially, you know, it's walking through the world being basically have wearing your heart on your sleeve right and so it's again it's that deep caring for human beings around you. It's also one of you know I started recently, I just wrote something recently on my blog about sensitivity being your superpower and I really mean it. There's a way and this ties back to sexism right there's a way where in the workplace, often it's considered unprofessional. If you have, I mean if you have feelings of joy that's that's kind of accepted you know feelings of happiness that's kind of accepted. But if you're having feelings of like frustration, or you're having feelings of maybe feeling hurt because a co worker or client isn't getting back to you or something like that. Then, if you show that there's a way that's considered unprofessional and wrong. And the reality is is that, you know, there's so many ways culturally we can desensitize in this in this world the society we live in and if you're able to hold on to your sensitivity in a world that's so set up to not feel like that is pretty amazing and and and something to be honored. Right. And so, I think, choosing your sensitivity as something, naming it good rather than something bad, right because I'll often hear clients say, Oh, I just wish I wasn't so sensitive. Or it's, you know, if I if I didn't react that way and I and I always say well, what's wrong with that what's wrong with having connection with your heart. That to me makes a better world if there's a sense of it and so using your sensitivity and a way that aligns for a higher purpose, right and how you see the world because often sensitive souls. See ways that the world could be better. See the world see ways in which the world could. We could be, you know, we could evolve as a human race and so those ideas from that sensitivity are usually powerful ideas so Yeah, it's just nurturing it differently right rather than judging it and making it wrong it's like no let's make this a good thing and what comes out of what did you learn when you had that interaction and your feelings got hurt. What, how would that look different for you if you had a different interaction so it's an opportunity to offer new perspectives and thinking. I like that a lot and thank you for for sharing it. Another another kind of related issue you work with clients on a lot is the inner critic. Right and I mean you've, like, I think you've taught at least one course on the inner critic, if not done many many videos about it so and you talk about this relationship with inner critic and inner knowing. Yes. So talk to us about that a little bit. Yes. So, there's a form of I'm just going to go off on one thing just one second to kind of explain where this came from so there's a form of therapy called home therapy. Before I became a coach there was a time I really was considering to be a therapist but for many reasons which I won't name now I really wanted to be in the coaching field so that's what I moved towards many years ago but in the community there's this idea of working with different parts right we have different parts and so often with my clients I'll work with the inner critic which would be considered the fear, you know the fear part, but then there's also this like inner knowing inner part right and so if you can start to dialogue with those different parts then the inner critic which often can leave us paralyzed in action confused scared, then if we can create a relationship with that go what is that fear wanting to say or what is that fear trying to protect and what is actually the inner knowing or the higher self actually want for us then all of a sudden we can move forward. You know we don't stay we're not in the quicksand anymore. So, and you can bring other parts to like in how come there's lots of different parts you could bring your young self into it you could bring your older wise self into you know, in coaching another form is like our future self so there's different forms of our parts that we can bring together and dialogue with as human beings were complex. You know, we have lots of complexity and we have lots of ways in which our beliefs in our thinking and our past experience influence where we are today. And often they just need some tending to and some attention and then we can shift it pretty easily. And do you use these kind of this kind of parts work also in your coaching. Yeah, and my one to one coaching for sure. Yeah, that's great. Let's just kind of wrap up on on the conversation with talking a bit about your career life transition you know we started with that and it's kind of end with that as well so you work so much on this and one of the. I mean there's, there's things that are cultural things that are personal. You also talk about how it's important to kind of name the season in one's life. So maybe, maybe you can touch on that a little bit there. Yeah. So, if we think of, you know, if we think of the different seasons like they all have different felt senses of energy right so winter is more dark, more hibernation, more going within. And if we contradict that with summer it's more out more abundant more play spring we have you know blossoming and blooming and like the energy growing and then the fall, you know kind of going down slowing down harvesting. And so, I love working with the seasons and the idea that when your career transition right career life transition. You're really probably wanting to jump to spring and summer, like, I want to bloom and I want to you know I want to, I want to be doing my purpose work in the world. And sometimes when you're starting the journey or not you're more in the fall, you're more just harvesting like what have I learned over these past 10 years in this previous career what have I, or 20 years like what have I gained what knowledge of I gained what have I learned gives me energy and what hasn't right, you need to move into this, you know, oftentimes and it's for each individual it's different how long you stay in each season but then there's like this winter season where it's then like cocooning it in marinating just letting it's you know, letting these ideas have some space to start to eventually bloom in the spring but they need to rest first right and then you can move into spring and summer. And so it can be confusing if you start the process, literally with me in the summer right but you're more in this winter season. And so just meeting your season where it's at honoring your season and knowing that your internal season may not match your external season. And that's okay, you know, it's totally just meeting yourself where you're at before you take, you know, action to jump forward or another thing you've heard me say is like this idea that we have to know exactly what we're going to do a lot of times when clients first start with me they say well what do I say when people ask me what I do. And I'll say you say you're in a transition and you don't know yet. That's a big question in our culture you know when we meet what do you do what you know what work do you do in the world that's a common. And not all cultures ask that question first but we certainly ask that question here it's one of the first questions we ask and so the more comfortable you are with just saying I don't know the more it's received by the receiver. Wow, yeah, that's that's a definitely something we don't often give ourselves the permission to say and so when you work with clients or, you know, work with a potential client you do you do an exploratory process of some kind. Yes. And do you help them to gauge what season they're in. Yeah, and I you know to be really transparent George their typical lots of times people are either in fall and winter when they start the coaching process. Yeah, with me with with the work I do. Yeah, cool. And let's talk about how you work with clients so you've got one on one coaching and you've got the women's group. Which one do you want to talk about first. I'll start with. I'll start with the one to one coaching because I so I've been doing the one to one coaching the longest I've been doing that for third almost 13 years, and that process takes time it's a longer commitment for people to work with me it's typically a six month commitment. And that's purposeful because change takes time and when you're making a career life change it usually takes several months before you can move into the direction of your spring or summer right or for landing where you need. So that's a bigger, bigger time commitment. So what a few years ago I came up with working with women in a circle and the reason was is I do these one to one calls and I'd be like, Oh, this woman needs to connect with this woman and then, and I'm sure you relate George right you start to see patterns of like oh these people would be a really great match and if they could just hear that this woman's going through this same thing they won't feel so alone. A few years ago I created the green light women's circle and it's been fantastic and it what I love about it is, we do look at work, but we look at it's way bigger than that right women are talking about their relationships in this group they're really looking at the whole life perspective of things that they're either wanting to change or get some coaching on or even support. And so it's, it's been really a pleasure to start to lead this group that I've been doing. Yeah, that's awesome. And so I'm going to of course put any links below that you'd like me to what's the next step is someone is interested in working with you. So if you're wanting to connect with me you can just reach out via my website and we'll set up a complimentary consultation and it's just really an opportunity to see if we're a good match to work together. There's thousands and thousands of different coaches so just see if my style of coaching would work for you or not so usually I spend that session getting a sense of what your background is what you're wanting to do moving forward and where you feel stuck and then I can let you know how I work specifically in that one to one path and we could move forward. And if you wanted to find out more about the women's circle again just reach out via my website and I can walk you through what we do. I have a pretty specific pattern for each group that I go through and I can give you those details. Excellent wonderful. Thank you Michelle for the work that you do and for those who are watching. I hope you'll check out Michelle's website and reach out to her. Alright, have a great day everybody and thanks Michelle. Thanks.