 a good day again viewers and welcome to the program agriculture on the move my name is Philip Sidney your host for the next half an hour today we have a very interesting conversation we are talking about feral pigs that is the wild pigs in the wild and of course it's a very good while it's a good delicacy for consumption but is causing some serious damage to the farming community and of course to discuss this further is mr. Aloysius Charles who is the forest officer irresponsible for a program that looking at the control of the feral pigs welcome to the program sir thank you sir okay tell us about the problems that the feral pigs cause in the wild okay so first in 2018 that's when the problem first started we really started getting lots of reports about this problem with feral pigs so we had reports from lots of farmers and even some of our experienced forestry officers would go out in the forest would have reports about a lot of wallowing which is what you would typically call lab we yes so it find quite a lot of evidence of such and we had lots of reports from farmers stating that they had been actually losing some of the crops so that led us back in 2018 to start out in the investigation as to the issues associated with the presence of feral pigs and we also wanted to find out whether we had to get evidence that it this was the what was actually happening was actually being done by feral pigs okay so where you do you find that problem more focused on what areas so the areas where feral pigs were most prevalent what we found was in the central forest reserve between areas of a millet denry and souffle so these were the three areas that were most affected by the feral pigs according to the information that we picked up yeah and in fact I know January for sure because the minister for agriculture after Prospe had a meeting a farmers meeting some things last year in in January and coming from that meeting what was highlighted was farmers were complaining that feral pigs were interfering a lot with their crops you know and causing some serious economic damage to their crops and and livelihoods I know some years ago maybe before your time involved they had given some of the older farmers firearms to actually control that helped well but of course a lot of those farmers have passed on so you have a new breed of farmers now so is I all thinking working with the police to arm the farmers to control because what I was told to the that when they come in a pack they can attack you and running from your farm yes well feral pigs can be pretty much aggressive but when it comes to handing out of firearms that is beyond the Department of Forestry so where what we are concerned with is to actually use some of the latest some technology technological advancements to be able to help so that there be more detectability and we are working alongside the police but we are not the ones responsible for issuing firearms so in this project we are going to have the police as one of the stakeholders where they are going to accompany us in dispatching some of the wild pigs that are detected under this project so I told you all are still having farmers coming to us as we speak with having a serious problem yes well from back in 2018 we actually did a survey island-wide survey where we actually interviewed more than a hundred farmers and out of that about 25% of these farmers actually reported that they had so much damage from feral pigs that at one point they had to totally abandon the farms yes wow and there's another problem I was told that is caused is the excrete and at water intakes a lot and they tend to especially in the dry season the wallow and at those those points you have you all been given that type of information well yes we have heard about reports about this but under this project as well we are hoping to ascertain some of these claims because water quality testing is one of these one of the activities that we are going to undertake under the project so we are going to be collecting samples because we have at least 16 major rivers that actually start out from the central forest reserve and that is within the same study area so there is the potential that these feral pigs might be polluting these water sources when they defecate in the water it might cause pollution of these water sources so we are hoping to investigate that question and try to get a concrete answer to that question under the project after we have done all of the water quality testing okay so let's go back to the project so the project started off when as of February 1st 2023 tell us about the project what are the objectives of the project all right so the name of the project is feral pig management for nature conservation and sustaining rural livelihoods okay so under this we have these two main objectives so we actually want to start off a hunting scheme along with some of the hunters where these hunters they are going to be licensed so they can operate within the forest reserve hunting the feral pigs so that would help in decreasing the numbers of the feral pigs and the other component is for nature conservation so we are hoping that this as well would lessen the impact on the forest as well so do they apart from doing damage economically to the farmers are they damaging the forest trees etc yes they do cause damage as well because in all of the previous studies in other countries as well we know that they do have the ability to change the forest composition by sometimes feeding too much on one particular species and probably causing even the extinction in some cases of these species so how do they damage those three species well they cause damage sometimes by over feeding on the seeds or the young plants of a particular species so that would not have that would not leave much space for natural regeneration for future trees to grow okay and what about the actual damage to the tree bark and the trunks and stuff do they do that too no yes they do cause damage to the tree barks as well and tree trunks and tree barks and quite a bit of wallowing as well so that would destroy quite a few seeds from some of the more endangered plant species as well okay and even the introduction of all the species that will never they like invasive species okay what was the intention the intention the intention is to eradicate them completely or to have some measure of control at least to know okay in terms of conservation and to add to the wildlife is it is it is their combination of the two or is it complete eradication well we know from studies from other countries all over the world that eradication is very difficult but we aiming at control and maybe hopefully depending on the success of the program maybe eventual eradication but for now we are more concerned with control of the of the population the control of it yes so further studies as we go along and we pick up more data it might equip us better to be able to deal with the situation at and then maybe eventually we might get to eradication but as of now we're looking at control okay so okay then to get that data from from the from the field what measures are in place to do that so presently we are going to be using some collars to be able to track these these pigs around so we'd be able to know where they spend the time where they are so we get the exact locations and we able to track them around and we also hoping to use some real-time cameras as well so we are able to estimate the popular the size of the groups and the eventual population of the wild pigs how are you going to get a call on those things we are going to we working along with the vet unit as well so we are hoping to tranquilize a few of the adults especially the adult females allow them to be able to join back with the groups and be able to follow them around and to be able to dispatch members of the group as we encounter them okay so if one of the pigs you're able to put a call around it can you identify that pig by going there and having a tracker on it having some sort of system that will pinpoint exactly where that pig is yes well the telemetric color is actually outfitted with a device that you're able to use GPS and go to the location okay okay okay and so are you all going to just kill every one of them the adults the young ones I mean everything well yes that's total eradication well we like I said well we are hoping for control because eradication like I said it's a very very difficult to achieve because we lessons learned from all of the other projects that have taken place worldwide we know that eradication is next to impossible because these feral pigs they are pretty smart sometimes when you start to track them then they change the ways so that's why we're hoping to use more than one method to actually take out these feral pigs so how many cameras you are you're going to be installing in the forest we are going to start off with 10 cameras okay and then the cameras should be able to tell well you're getting images back to to be yes it's a real-time camera so it has the potential to act is some motion sensor so it can actually determine whenever there's motion in the area you can take the footage sends the photos directly back to us and then we can tell based on the location of this camera we can tell in what area these pigs are and what numbers are in the groups of the feral pigs okay so how long is going to take you now to get all that information stability that that sort of that information and then what action is taken next all right so based on the location of these pigs then we have most of the hunters we have them from different ranges in some of these affected communities as well the communities that have been affected because one of the things that the farmers were doing with a little success was that they were contacting the hunters within the areas and then they would go out in the forest and then try to hunt down some of these wild pigs and that's how they were able to chase some of them away because when they come under pressure they move to other locations so we hoping to use some of that success and plus put it together with the new technology that we have so we should be able to pinpoint these pigs a lot easier and therefore we should be able to have a lot more control of the situation okay so when they are shot in the interior how do you get the cackers back to base because of the terrain that you're dealing with and depending on the size of the pig so you're going to actually you know get them cleaned up and cut into into various parts and take them back down to base yes so you're not carrying the whole pig back no well yes the pig has to be carried back so because of course the hunters are going this is one of the components of the livelihoods component so the hunters are going to be using this meat and they are it's going to be certified by environmental health and these hunters will be able to sell them back and to make some some money okay so it's more or less a form of likelihood for the hunters yes it is okay so is that what in that in that project I mean you love your trailer brought in stakeholders trailer brought in ministry of health you're brought in the fed division well ministry of agriculture we have the police as well all right and the hunters yes the hunters okay all right so after you've collected that data then you'll move in to various areas knowing where they are so is now it is slaughter time yes those pigs basically they were domesticated and they just escaped to the wild right that's why that's why it is yes over time over time yes okay and and the because of the environment they're able to change the whole body structure you know and the whole the whole thing that's changed well pigs are able to adapt very easily to any environment that they introduce and they multiply very quickly to a very because it is I think based on on on my my zoology and my animal husband three days it takes three months two weeks three days for for a gestation period so it's once once it once the guest service then so in three months three days you have you have a young one yes and they and they multiply a lot very very very quickly okay so you can have multiple liters within one yeah yeah coming from so many various hours yeah all right okay where we do for a food break you're watching agriculture on the move stay tuned we'll be back very soon the Ministry of Agriculture fisheries food security and rural development continues placing heavy emphasis on the concept of food security it's our prosperity our future livestock production is a support program offered by the ministry it guarantees twenty eight point six five percent and forty percent market share for poultry and swine production respectively there is ongoing disease surveillance and treatment improved bloodline support the bar to support training and technical support you can learn more on livestock production contact the chief veterinary officer at four six eight five six two zero for further welcome back to the program agriculture on the move of course I am Philip Sidney and with me from the forestry department mr. loisius Charles who is a forest officer and he we were just talking about the feral pigs and the sort of damage they do to the farmers crops and affects their livelihoods and the aim here is to destroy the whole completely eradication okay mr. Charles are there in apart from the being I call them vegetarian because they eat a lot of berries and and seeds and of course the dashing and the young kind of farmers are they threatened by any other wild animals in the wild no no well feral pigs wouldn't belong to the disenvironment naturally so they don't have any any predators within this environment but you call them vegetarians and I wouldn't quite call them vegetarians because we know that they are they also eat them meat items as well so if they have to get them young animals on the forest floor as well like what they would eat them like what so we might have what lizards young birds some of some fledglings because some other fledglings tend to spend a few days on the forest floor before they can actually find their wings and take off and if a feral pig were to come across one then we know definitely they can get eggs and suffer on the place also eggs from all the species as well okay okay okay so they would tend to consume literally anything that they can come across so they are multi yes okay um is there have you all I don't know if you know but will the survey capture for example the movement of the of the animals see from the forest areas to the farmers holdings is it is it done just arbitrarily or is there some time of the year when they will migrate from the forest deep forest and come to the location where farmers are farming well once we've outfitted these pigs with the telemetry colors then these telemetry colors will be able to give us 24 hours of information as to what exactly the pig does when it does and we like I said the location so it can tell us everything about that so presently we don't have all of that information available so we hoping that this would actually shed some light on the subject area so by the by the time that the project is done we hoping to have a lot more information as to the whereabouts of the pig what time of the where exactly they spend their time and doing what have you all had any meetings with the farmers in the first location uprising them as to the program that you all about to oh you'll have been you have started implementing well we are in contact with a few of the farmers and hunters and we hoping to have our first stakeholder meeting very early next month so then we should have the discussion on that and we have the discussion on the project outcomes and objectives all the same within our first stakeholder meeting okay and so the so you're moving from from millet you're going to denry and to have meetings with the farmers well we hoping to have our first meeting at our at our base location in union okay so we bringing the farmers to this location and then we'll have the discussion based on what we expecting from the project and well we have met like I said we had discussions with farmers all over the island when we had that survey back in 2018 what that first survey what what what what was it all about basically so it was open to capture information about the feral pigs and how how much damage that they were causing to some of some of the crops and we found well a lot of the root crops farmers that were planting root crops like um tanya dashing sweet potatoes those were a lot of the those that were being damaged even yams so there's that's where we had a lot of the damage but it was mainly from farmers that had the farms in close proximity to the forest reserve okay but you all um as part of the program um the question of consumption um I know it's a delicacy for a lot a lot of persons now when you hear about and the texture of the cacus you know you know it has a very um a thin a thin layer of fat as opposed to the domesticated one um I'm all encouraging people in in the communities you know to actually you know prepare dishes and so at least that may encourage the hunters to go out more and hunt no well yes we hope in under the program once we've once we've gotten the ball rolling that we hope in us one of the things that we can actually get a bit more uh hunters how many hunters you would see for example that um that are in St. Lucia and they will actually go in order to hunt wild pigs is this something that is that that's I mean prevalent it's not as prevalent as it used to be because we had a lot of the older folks who used to be hunters and like you said most of them would have had their licensed firearms and of course the tradition has kind of fallen over time but at present we have at least about um 10 hunters that we hoping to work with under this project okay all right so maybe in time as we go along maybe we might get other persons who have a bit of interest and maybe we can get a few more hunters coming in great have you ever had a problem um see for example we have tourists who are going through the tracks and to actually go bird watching um to see the the beauty of the forest the flora and the fauna um have you have had any experience where um they were attacked by the feral pigs we haven't had any cases of attacks but I can tell you for sure that yes sometimes being out on on these excursions we have encountered wild pigs in the past but there was no attack on on the part of the wild pigs so they run they run away yes so you don't think I mean but what I know from I've heard the stories from farmers they when they come they come like a pack you know and they and they're hungry you the farm have to run from from from your farm well yes sure because these wild pigs they can get pretty huge and I mean they these um they can cause quite a bit of damage if they are to attack so best thing is if you encounter wild pig best thing is to run away if you have to okay okay because it's going to be a difficult fight if you're not under to um take on a wild pig it's best that you move away so have you all um is there any restriction I mean prior to um the project that you are handling right now with anybody going into the forest um and hunt and hunt wild pigs or to you do they need a license to go and hunt on the pigs well it has always been according according to law that it is prohibited to just enter the forest reserve without first seeking permission from the department of forestry so you know so you so one kind of just going going in the forest and hunt wild pigs knowing that I mean the problem exists I need to be at least go because going to get a get a license even I don't I don't know you can guide me in that regard um how long does it take to get a license it wouldn't take long to get a license because um the chief forest officer can actually issue a license to someone who wishes to get a license yes okay but like I said it is strictly prohibited to just enter the forest reserve without first contacting the department of forestry so what happens if somebody goes in and then you catch up with coming out they've also got wild meat coming out what will you do well I guess we're from wild pigs but if it if it were anything apart from wild pigs then yeah I mean you could carry some fines there can be a maximum of five thousand dollars that you can be charged for no I said if it were wild pigs then of course we can look past that because we're trying to get rid of the wild pigs yes but anything apart from the wild pigs because all of these other species in there are actually indigenous species so we wouldn't encourage anybody to kill any of the other indigenous species that are protected by law okay what other species of wild animals in the forest that one can go in and and shoot and hunt well according to according to law the only unprotected species of wildlife here are the furdilands rats mice and the mongus okay unprotected unprotected all other species of wildlife on St. Lucia are protected by law okay but you but you knew you you are aware of persons eating the boa and if caught all right well we have heard some reports about that but as long as we can get any information that points in that direction and we can get any evidence of such then it would be a chargeable offense it is okay okay okay wow because I know people love the delicacies and they try all sorts of apart from hunting man hunting the wild pig do you have any like I said earlier on can the snake kill the wild pig it is a possibility yes have you ever in your survey I hope I can you pick up pick pick this up too in your and under this project well if we other than shooting the animal I mean any other way that I mean I heard you mention there are no other species that will attack them yes so we're looking at a few methods of trying to tackle the the feral pig population so for one we'd also use some rope traps and had been some measure of success with that in the past at one point that we use a road rope traps that are actually attached to a tree and then they would have we would bit these traps so you put like bananas or fruits mangoes different things that that are edible that they can feed on and as they actually walk through feeding then it they would be caught by some of these specialty ropes that would be very difficult to us okay but we would definitely have to try out more than one method so we also have pitfall traps that we intend to use as well pitfall traps follow in the hole yes I mean I noticed again that's that's in the states where you have ropes as you mentioned but instead of having them trapped in the ropes but the ropes will actually capture them and lift them off the ground yes yeah so I think that's another method so we'll look at these different methods because like I said maybe if you use one method too much then these pigs they are pretty smart and they can adapt pretty easily so then they would realize oh this is a trap and then they would just go around it they would they would use other methods so you would have to use more than one method to actually get rid of them and you'll not of course encourage bit with poisonous bit and stuff like that no no because poisonous poisonous bit can actually affect all the other species of animals within the reserve yes that you have to you'll have to watch um but then I believe that you know you all need to come up with apart from getting the hunters to go out there like you mentioned other innovative ways can you also go and apart from using using the guns can you use you know your tranquilizers to actually bring them down and after slaughter them no I don't know well to tranquilize it you would need to be there as well so it's just like taking them out with guns so yeah the best thing to do is to take them out in the gunshot yeah which is what would you think about spending I mean in terms of using tranquilizer or using using using bullets well you're trying to kill them so using a bullet definitely would would dispatch the animal would get would get rid of him if it's if it's properly hit but the tranquilizers we only hoping to use them for the individuals that we hoping to put the telemetry color on because we would need to detain them that we can put the telemetry color on safely and then allow them to go and rejoin the group so that we can find for the telemetry color the project is expected to last over 15 months 15 months yes okay and it is funded by whom the St Lucia national conservation fund okay all right um well any final words from you well we uh we look into undertake the ferrule pig project and we hoping that we can get a lot of public interest in it so we hoping that persons would um well we are trying to work with from the St Lucia tourism authority as well hoping that we can actually get some persons to develop some delicacies some recipes for the wild pig meat we know that it is a lot more lean than what what we actually have domesticated so we hoping that persons will get used to the idea and that well we can develop the ferrule pig industry and hopefully make better livelihoods for some of these hunters out there definitely so a lot of people like Byron and them who are going to be hunting and that's why I go by Byron get mine you know yes well he is one of those persons that we have one day as well definitely well Charles thank you for coming on the program I wish you success with the project and I wish you all well okay thank you sir you've been watching agriculture on the move thank you for being in the program I would like you to continue to uh those hunters go out and hunt the ferrule pigs you know I'm Philippe Sidney saying goodbye and see you again