 وَإِنْ تَعْجَبْ فَعْجَبٌ قَوْلُهُمْ أَيْذَا كُنَّا تُرَابًا أَيْنَا لَفِي خَلْقٍ جَدِيدَ أولئك الذين كفروا بربهم وأولئك الأغلال في عناقهم وأولئك أصحاب النارهم في يا خالدون الحمد لله رب عالمين والسلاة والسلام على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أما بعد السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته الله وبركاته ورحمة الله وبركاته و You know, sort of just randomly, coming out with things and opinions and he said and she said It's not also from the characteristics of the believer in sort of kaaf Allahيزا وَجَلَ Criticize the people who guest regarding the number of the people in the cave and the dog that was with them And he said رج아 مَن بِالٌغَيب They were just randomly, you know throwing things out there ت Nap تكلمت أن تشعر بلا تلك الاشياء يعني أنهم مهم sky تقلون أصبح كأنهم ينخفون لدينا العلم من القرآن والصناع وأننا أفضل منذ الاشياء ووجدنا ذلك منطقة من تلك العلم بماكية نعمة وفضل ولكننا نتكلم من العلم أعتقد أنه ستبع وشأنه دعو؟ نعم لصنع الحمد لله رب العلم والصلاة و السلام على أشرة في الانبياء والمرسلين سيدنا و نبينا محمد و على أاله والصحبه يوم الدين أما بعد. تقريباً ما شيخ محمد يتكلم. المساعدة المساعدة في بوكس وشيخ الاسلام بيبنو تيمي أكشد بوكس في هذه الأشياء التي تقريباً بين رفاليشن وريزاني. ونحن رحمة الله يتكلم أنه مدينة ابن القيب في كتاب صراعك المرسلة أن هذه الأشياء of الملغيب هي من الأشياء التي لا يمكن أن يحدث عنها حتى أنها تقريباً بيبنو تيمي حسناً هذه هي المكان الذي لا يوجد أشياء لأنه لا يمكن أن يحدث عنه لم يرى ذلك ويوجد فقط فاقل فاقل فاقل فاقل فاقل فاقل في الأشياء التي تقريباً الأشياء التي يمكنك أن تشاهد ونظر ودارك البن القيم رحمة الله يقول في كتاب صراعي أو فاقل فاقل لا يستقل العقل دون هداية بالوحي تفصيلاً ولا تأصيلا كالطرف يدون النور ليس بمدرك حتى يراه بكرةً وأصيلاً فإذن النبوتي أو النور النبوتي مثل نور الشمسي للعيني البصيرة فاتقيده دليلاً في هذه الأشياء ابن القيم يتاقيد أن لا يستقل العقل دون هداية العقل يمكن أن تصبحت المقاومة لك فقط بأي تصبحت ونصب أننا نتحدث عنها في جلسات جيدة في أوليين باستخدامنا في موسم ونفخ احد الأشياء التي لا يمكن العقل يتحدث عنها ويقل فقط لأن فقط الصرف يصرد يعتمد فيها ، لأن لا يرى كل شيء وليس يرى لا نرى كان على المواصلة يصرد يصرد يصرد بأي ويطير بصرف كل شيء في الأن الأعكل يصرد يصرده و...! و! و الأشياء التي لا يستطيع أن تحدث عن أبن القي يمر تلك العشاء أعرف أنها تتعرها على إبن متايم و! أفضل أن أبن أن أعطيك لا يستطيع أن يستطيع أن أعطيك لا يمكنك أن ييطيك فقط بإستخكارك و الثلاثة هو عندما الجرب يجب ان يكونى هؤلاء المأبان والبارات من الشخص who have a conflict and are differing and disagreeing وال ثلاثة عن وجرب يجب التحدث عن الإسلام سنجحت جناس الانسين، الجنون، ملايكة امين وبالتالي quaran and sunnah والمثلاة في طوايف والأقلين يعملون لأنهم فعلونه عن الإسلام крاما لقد نتحدث عن العقل بسبب العقل اريد أن نتحدث عن ذلك لأننا سوف نتحدث عن الأشياء والأشياء وعلى الجن في العقل ونهم أننا نعتقد في القضاء والقدر خيره وشره هذا الذي الله تباركه تعالى هو جيد منه وخير منه وذلك one of the articles of our iman الله تباركه عندما يتحدث عن الإيمان يقول أن تؤمن بالله وملايكة وكتبه ورسولي ويوم الآخر وتؤمن بالقدر خيره وشره لأنك تؤمن بالخير وشره وعلى الله تباركه تعالى يزين القرآن ما أصابكم من مصيبة في الأرض ولا في أنفسكم إلا في كتاب من قبل أن نبراها إنه ذلك على الله يسير يعني أنه ذلك أنك لا تفلق مع الكلمة وليس أن تذهب through a hardship or anything حتى أنه كان قضاءً قدر فهذا كان قضاءً قدر وعلم أن ما أصابك لم يكن ليخطئك وما أخطأك لم يكن ليصيبك أن ما يفلق معك ليست مجدداً لك وما يفلق معك ليست مجدداً لك والحديث لديه مجدداً ولكن the third thing that I think I wanted to add on to two things I wanted to add on what sheqab mentioned is that when we're afflicted with these things we have to be very patient and imprison our nafs from speaking that which is is not permissible or not which is not allowed the Prophet ﷺ said in the hadith عجب الإمر المؤمن fascination and wonder is in the affairs of the believer إن أصابته صراء شكرا فكان خير الله وإن أصابته ضراء صبر فكان خير الله أو كما قال عليه الصلاة والسلام that fascination is in the affairs of the believer if he's afflicted with good he shows gratitude and if he's afflicted with hardship and harm and pain he shows patience إبن القيم from that he said that the slave he tosses and he turns in those two situations in his life he's either going through a time of hardship and what is required from him is مقام الصبر you go through hardship the servitude that is required from you now is patience and sometimes you go through ease and happiness and joy the servitude that is required from you here is gratitude الله تعالى قال the sign that you're a patient person is that when you talk what comes out of your mouth is that after the calamity has fallen you I think that three points is a good introduction before we define what Jinns is I only wanted to add to that on the point that you made regarding reasoning and regarding the أقل that here we're not just talking about the أقل being the means by which you affirm something but even also the means by which someone rejects something both of those could be valid so there are some people who might use their intellect to affirm something as existing because it makes sense to me and others who might reject something because it makes sense to me but ultimately that's not a valid scale of balance by which we can measure things Islamically on either side whether affirming things or whether it comes to negating things you asked me sorry we went off on a tangent but I thought it was important but regarding a little bit of a definition or who or what other Jin so linguistically ابن منظور in لسان العرب he mentioned regarding this word Jin and he said جنة الشي يجدنه جنان سترة he said this word جنة it means to cover something or to conceal something and he said anything which is concealed from you can be referred to with this جن and he said and because of this linguistic reason the Jin are called the Jin because they are covered and hidden and concealed so that's the sort of linguistic basis in terms of a شرع definition I'm going through the statements of the scholars you know when the scholars trying to bring تعريفات to try and bring definitions for things there's always this aim for it to be جامع and مانع to be comprehensive and exclusive and it's not an easy thing to bring out definitions for things but I thought we could take it from a different way which would be a nice way of introducing the topic is to take it from let's say sort of five passages in the Quran that define for us the Jin so the first one is the statement of Allah إزاله جالن سورة الحجر والجن خلقناه من قبل من نار السمو the Jin we created them before I before mankind from نار السمو from this smokeless fire so we know from this that they are a creation from the creation of Allah and that they were created prior to the creation of mankind that's one part of the definition and if we look at سورة الحقاف when Allah said وإذ صرفنا إليك نفر من الجن يستمعون القرآن فلما حضروه قالوا أنصتوا فلما قض يولوا إلى قومهم منذرين قالوا يا قومنا إنا سمعنا كتابا أنزل من بعد موسى مصدقا لما بين يهدي يهدي إلى الحق وإلى طريق مستقيم يا قومنا أجيب داعي الله وآمن به يغفر لكم من ذنوبكم ويؤجركم من عذاب أليم here when Allah إزاله جالن سورة الحجر I said when a group of the jin were directed to him and they listened to the Quran and when they attended it they said to each other to be silent and when it was finished the recitation they went back to their people as warners they said our people we have heard a book revealed after موسى which gives truth to that which came before it it guides to the truth and to a straight path our people answer the caller of Allah and believe in him you will be forgiven for your sins and you will be saved from a painful torment from this we can take out certain important definitions that relate to the jin that they have an intellect that they have an أقل because they are commanded to answer and they are told to listen and they understand the Quran that is recited to them so they have an أقل they have an irada they have a will a choice because they are told أجيب or answer so they have a choice to answer or not to answer and they are commanded to follow the commands of Allah in a similar way to that of human beings we can also take from the ayah in Surat Al-A'raf إنه يراكم هو وقابيله من حيث لا ترونه that they are a creation that is hidden from our sight under normal circumstances and then we can also take from Surat Al-Jinn وأن من المسلمون ومن القاسطون فمن أسلم فأولئكة حر الرشد وأنما القاسطون فكانوا لجهن محطبة that among us are Muslims and among us are others who are disbelievers or defiantly disobedient and whoever accepts Islam then those are the people who have taken the right way and as for those disbelievers they will be firewood for jahannam we can take from this that among them are Muslims and among them are disbelievers and finally from the hadith of Aisha رضي الله عنها and this hadith narrated صحي مسلم there is a messenger of Allah he said وَأَخُرِكَا عَدَمُ مِمَّا وُصِفَا لَكُمْ أَوْكَمَا قَالَصْلَا يَسَدْلَمْ that he said that the angels were created from light and that the jinn were created from the smokest flame of fire and that Adam was created from what has been described to you that the jinn are distinct from the angels and from human beings I think that probably covers إن شاء الله if you have extra points that Morris covers most of the issues relating to the technical definition of the jinn now as the sheikh mentioned the word jinn originally the root word this jinn in the noon and the Arabs they say it means في أصل اللغة it means something that's covered and it's hidden that's why the person who's insane is called مجنون because his عقل is being covered the jannah that we enter is the same root word and they said the word jannah is used because of the jinn in the noon is because there are many trees around it which hide from you what's inside and that's why it's used so even the mother's womb is also they use the جنة في بطون أمهاتكم so the word has that meaning which is hidden and the sheikh mentioned the ayah يا بني آدم لا يفتننكم الشيطال كما أخرج أبويكم من الجنة ينزيو عنهما لباسهما ليوريهما سو آتيهما إنه يراكم هو قبيل من حيث لا ترونهم إنه جعلنا الشياطين أو لياء للذين لا يؤمنون so they can see you when you can't see them و لذلك there's a Fah'idah I came across which ابن القي يمن يثير that we seek refuge in Allah from the angels because they are a creation we can't see and we seek refuge in the one they can't see which is الله سبحانه و تعالى also the jinn they were created before us they came into existence before we came الله يقول وَالجَالنَ كَلَقَنَهُم اِن قَبْلُوا من نارِسمهم that we created من إبليس؟ هل يأتي منه؟ لأننا نأتي من أدم عليسلان وأنه أبي يأتي من الشيطان إبليس والذي يبدو أنه أبي من القرآن هو أنه ليست أبي أن يأتي منه والذي يأتي من أبليس كان من الجنف ففسق عن أمر ربه ماذا؟ ماذا؟ إبليس هو منهم هذا ما يقول إبليس إبليس هو من الجن هو من الجن يعني أنه هو من الجن والله يخبر في إبليس إن الملائكة يسجدوا لي أدم فسجدوا إلا إبليس كان من الجن ففسق عن أمر ربه أفتت تخيضونه ودرية أولي أمن دوني وهم لكم عدو بقسل الغالي من البدلاء لأنه يوجد أبليس لذلك يجب أن يتحدث يوجد أبليس أيضاً منهم يوجد مسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين are right as Muslims ومسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين ومسلمين are those who listen to the Quran وإتصرفنا إليك نفر من الجن يستمعون القرآن فلما حذروا وقالوا أنستوا فلما قوض يولو إلى قومهم منذرين قالوا يا قومنا إلا سمعنا كتاباً أنزل من بعد موسى ومصدقاً لما بين يدي يهدي إلى الحق وإلا طريق مستقين يا قومنا أجيبوا دعي الله فأمنوا به يغفل لكم من دونو بكم ويجركوا من عذابن أليم لذلك لن يستمعون القرآن ومشاهدون ومشاهدون لكنهم يتعلقون إلى الله لذلك لن يتعلقون إلى المسجد الإسلام لذا this is a comprehensive there's three things that the jinns have which is why they were مقلف meaning why they were burdened and they were requested to worship Allah because Allah said إنه قرآن وما خلقتوا الجن والإنس إلا إلا ليعبدون وإننا دعي الله سيد يام عشر الجن والإنس ألم يأتيكم رسل منكم يقصون عليكم آياتي ويمنظرونكم لقائي ومكم هذا ومشاهدوا على أنفسهم أنهم كانوا كافرين لذا they've been meaning they've been questioned and interrogated they've judgment been asked you know did not a messenger come to you where you're not warned so they're مقلف based on those two ayahs and the scholars they say they're مقلف because three things are present in them the sheikh mentioned it they have قدرة ability so they have ability they have إراد I mean they have will and they also have they have ability they have so they can think they see things they they know what they're doing and this has now made them last point I want to mention is that the jins are actually considered to be lower than the bani Adam they're ranked lower than it and the evidence that scholars mention is they say in the statement of Allah وَلَقَدْ كَرْرَمْنَا بَنِيْ أَدْمَا we honored the children of Adam so this is that we're honored than the jinn and another ayah clearly shows that وَإِنَّوْ كَانَا رِيْجَالُ مِنَا الْإِنْسِ يَعُوْدُونَ بِرِيْجَالِ مِنَا الْجِنِيِ فَزَادُوهُمْ رَحَقَا that the jins originally used to respect us and they used to look up to us and we were great in their eyes until a group of a group of jins I mean a group of humans went and seeked refuge and help from the jinn and once they did that الله says فَزَادُوهُمْ رَحَقَا now this made them feel that they mean something they have some value and some worth so all these ayahs and these hadiths really established not only the meaning of what a jinn is but it also proves that the jins actually do exist they're our jins a creation out there referred to as jinn, it's mentioned in the Quran and something up in Muslim who believes in Allah under their judgment cannot reject to be honest for sure, I think that's a really comprehensive summary of who the jinn are and what some of their attributes just before we move on I do want to mention something that you mentioned the ayah where in the Quran it clearly states that Shaytan it believes it's from the jinn there's often a bit of confusion here and there's some people who believe that he's actually a fallen angel for example and the reason they believe that is because at the start of the ayah Allah addresses the angels when we said when we said to the angels so it almost seems like إبليس here has been included within that angels so it said to him is there any possibility that maybe the word jinn used in this ayah for Shaytan is a linguistic definition meaning he's hidden just like the rest of the angels are hidden from us and that he's actually an angel so there's a lot of ways that we can differentiate between the jinn and the angels one that we mentioned before is in the hadith where we said it's in sayه Muslim in which the prophets I said spoke about three different categories the angels create from light the jinn create from the smokeless fire and Adam create from what's been described to you so that first of all gives us a distinction but I've got another couple of things to think about first of all the angels themselves differentiate Allah said و يوم يحشورهم جميع ثم يقول للملائكة ها هؤلاء إياكم كانوا يعبدون قالوا سبحانك أنت ولينا من دونهم بل كانوا يعبدون الجن أكثرهم بهم مؤمنون على اليوم when he will gather them all together and will say to the angels was it you that these people used to worship the angels will say exalted are you in perfection you are our wali rather than them they used to worship the jinn most of them were believers in the jinn not in the angels so the angels themselves differentiate the fact that the jinn have children she already mentioned the answer أولياء do you take him and his offspring as أولياء and the fact that Allah said و لقد ذرأنا لجهنم كثير من الجن والإنس we have prepared جهنم for many of the jinn and the ins and again that's not true of the angels the angels not disobeying الله عز و جل and so on so here we have many many evidences and we also have something else that we can look at which is that generally when we in Arabic when we use an exception we make an exception or we make so for example we were to say use the word accept in English in Arabic we could use إلا there are other ways we could use it as well and we say إلا except in Arabic there is something which is when you make an exception and that exception doesn't come from the original thing that you're speaking about and this is called المستثنة المنخة a broken exception an exception that is broken off from the thing that you're originally talking about so in Arabic it's perfectly common to say something like all of the students left except the teacher all of the players left except the father the examples of this in the Arabic language are very very frequent very common usage of Arabic so we put all these things together and we see the differences between the angels and the jinn and we see the existence in Arabic of having an exception which doesn't come from the original thing that you're talking about it becomes quite clear that the angels here are not the jinn and the jinn are not the angels and إبليس falls into which camp it's quite clear because of the direct text that he falls into the camp and he falls from among the jinn and the fact that he has offspring and so on we mentioned making him different the fact that he was among the angels that he was honored to be able to spend among the angels indicate that he was covered by that command when the angels were told to prostrate that he among them was included in that command and yet ففسقة عنامري ربه he disobeyed and defied the command of his lord okay even subhan Allah when you look at the when you look at the أرلمة they mention that the humans are stationed in the middle when the human they say some of the scholars when this human follows Allah's commandments listens to what Allah tells him to do he has now taken a level at the station of the angels and so which is قو أنفسكم وهليكم نارا وقودها الناس والحجارة عليها ملائكة غلاضا وشيدادا لا يعصون الله ما أمرهم ويفعلوا لما يؤمرون even another ayah Allah سبحانه وتعالى يسبحون الليلة ونهارا لا يفطرون when he talks about the angels he mentions that they are very obedient so this is a trait that you've taken on and so then you out with them but then when the slave becomes very you know bad and evil and he does they say he goes even below the إنه ملاك العمي بالهم أظلوا سبيلا so this trait that this which is Iblis being with the angels they said that it was because of his righteous actions and his good doings and it's not just unique for him they say this is something even the believer can receive like not literally be with them now but be of that station that you are a person who is obeying and listening to Allah okay I now want to move the discussion on to the main topic which is what is the extent that the jinn can interact with the humans so the the concept that the jinn can interact with human beings is one that is well established within the Quran and particularly just to take a general sense because here I don't want to necessarily I don't want to necessarily go into the topic of possession at this moment in time just to talk about generally the interaction in صورة الأنعم الله عز وجل said ويوم يحشرهم جميعا يا معشرة الجن قادي استكثرتم من الإنس وقال أولياءهم من الإنس ربنا استمتع بعضنا ببعض وبلاغنا أجلنا الذي أجلت لنا until the end of the ayah الله عز وجل said on the day when he will gather them all together and say oh group of jinn you have استكثرتم عز وجل you have frequently you have frequently frequented mankind you know something you frequent interaction with mankind frequently misguided them you have this constant interaction with mankind but their allies from among the men will say our lord استمتع بعضنا ببعض we each of us took advantage of the other each of us took something from the other and we have reached appointed time that you have appointed for us الله عز وجل so here we see clearly that there were men that sought a benefit and sought to take advantage of the jinn and there were jinn that sought to take advantage of men and saw this interaction exist and in fact this interaction particularly interaction between the sheytan and between Bani Adam is something which is mentioned in so many places in the Quran but this is just a really clear example of how each one is interacting interacting with the other also the ayah and said to the jinn help us do this for us and this is when the jinn then became arrogant and full of themselves and started to realize oh ok we actually are valuable the humans need us and also the sheikh the ayah that he brought some of the scholars actually used that ayah to say that the jinn and the ins can actually get married because the ayah can involve marriage and many ulama have stated that and many other great scholars some of them actually even transmitted a consensus that this can happen like على كل حال the interaction between humans and jinn can be of good interaction and it can also be of evil interaction the example of a good interaction is he said there is not a person except that he has a qareen and this qareen you know whispers to the person and you know to do evil to go against Allah's command and also the and he said even me but he said as for me sorry and he took Islam and he doesn't come on me except that which is good so that's another interaction also another interaction is an interaction that is unique to that he had with the jinn and Allah he gave him and he had this and Allah gave it to him and Allah mentions in the Quran he says أن يعمل صابغات وقدر في الصرد وعمل صالحا إني بما تعملون بصير ولسليمان الريحة غدوها شهر ورواحها شهر وأسلنا له عين القطر ومن الجن يعمل بين يديه بإذن ربه ومن يزيغ منهم عن أمرنا نذقهم من عذاب السعر يعملون له ما يشاء من محريب وتماتيل وجفان كالجواب وقدور الراسيات يعملوا آل داود شقن وخليل من عباد الشخور فلما قضينا عليه الموت مادل لهم الله قلنا بأن يعملونه يعملونه لكي يعملون على مدينة على مدينة أخرى أنهم يعملون والشياطين وكل لبناء وغواص يعملون جميعهم ويعملون جميعهم يعملون جولس وجمس ويعملون ويعملون يعملون رحمه الله وعليه سلام وكان يعملون جميعهم يعملون لهم ويعملونهم لبناء لذلك كانت تفرق بأنه يعملون ويعملون بأن الله قلت نحن نحن نفق على هذا وأنه كان رجاله من الإنس يعوذون برجاله من الجن فزادوهم رهقة أتخل من عكره رحم الله تعالى وفقه كان الجن يفرقون من الإنس كما يفرق الإنس منهم أو أشد الجن يفرقون أو يكونوا أسخين منهم كما يفرقون منهم أو أسخين وكان الإنس وإذا نزلوا واديا حرب الجن وعندما يأتي للعالم الجن يفرقون فيقول سيد القوم يقول نعود بسيد أهل هذا الوادي يقول نحن نرى نصف المساعدة فقال الجن يفرقون مننا كما نفرق منهم يقول نراقب الناس كما نفرقون منهم فدنهم من الإنس فأصابوهم بالخبري والجنون وقاموا بذلك وقاموا بصبوحهم وقاموا بصفوحهم ومعرفة فذلك قول الله وأنه كان رجالهم من الإنس يعوذون برجالهم من الجن فزادوهم رحقا وهذا كان يخبر ببن أبي حاتم في تفسيره من إكراما فهذا فقط مجموعة كيف هذه الآية يدخل ترى تلك الآية بين المساعدة والجن حسنا نتحدث about a specific part of that interaction that's namely the gene possession where the majority of the rest of the episode is going to revolve around is it possible for a gene to possess a human being because of المس now whenever we look at an ayah of course we look at the Tafseer and we look at the Tafseer of the early generations I just would like to quote you only from Tafseer of Tabari to start with so Imam of Tabari we know he died 310 years after the hijrah and he's quoting from the people before that he said يتخبطوه الشيطان يتخبطوه الشيطان في الدنيا الشيطان causes him to become insane in the dunya وهو الذي يخنقه فيصرعه he is the one who strangles that person and makes them suffer from a fit makes them faint because of يعني من الجنون because of insanity and he quotes from Ibn Abbas that Ibn Abbas said that the person who that Ibn Abbas said that who will devour a riba will be resurrected يوم القيامة مجنون يخنق that he will be insane and he will be like he has been pressured or strangled from the shaitan and from Qatada that he said الذي يتخبطوه الشيطان من الجنون it's the insanity that the shaitan makes the person go insane and he quoted from many many others in fact he didn't طبري رحم الله تعالى didn't mention any other opinion for this ayah except that that this ayah refers to the shaitan in the dunya making a person suffer insanity and epileptic sorrow making them faint and causing them to become insane yeah I suppose so what we spoke at the beginning about akhl and how it can you can't be used when you can't see things but I can see things in the dunya and I do see a lot of people taking about being involved in interests it's very widespread and they don't stand like as if they're insane or anything like that they're just perfectly normal human beings but they're just engaging in the sin of interest so I'm not sure how this can be related to the dunya I can't really see that in front of me so here the ayah as I quoted from طبري رحم الله تعالى he said the insanity from the shaitan is something that happens in the dunya but this punishment for the people of Riba is يوم القيامة and the ayah is split over two things the punishment which takes place for the akhl the one who devours Riba يوم القيامة is a punishment which is comparable to the تخبض of the shaitan the insanity caused by the shaitan in the dunya that's what طبري said and he quoted that from ابن عباس from قتادة that this is referring to the dunya in terms of the shaitan but the last part in terms of the punishment it's not a direct proof in and of itself it's more the speech of men who have said that this particular ayah which is talking about the hereafter because the ayah is quite clear that this takes place in the hereafter it's referring to something that happens in the dunya this is really kind of what the مفصلين are saying about this particular ayah do you have like a direct proof that's why the شخص that the مفصلين not one of them have been stood to be anything else that's what it is so the ayah is talking about the يوم القيامة the ayah is saying those who are eating the Riba لا يقومون they don't stand the day of judgment إلا كما يقوموا الذي يتخبط والشيطان من المس except the way that the one who when he's possessed is unable to stand like a seizure it's the same way that it's going to be for the one who eats the Riba so the people in this world they see that when a person's possessed the way he is the comparison here is of that for the way it's going to be for the one who eats the Riba so we can't, the punishment for the one who's eating the Riba now we haven't seen it, that's going to be the day of judgment but what we do see the ayah is telling us is what you guys see in this world the way that when a jinn enters a person's body there's a word mess he has used which is the touching of the shaitan or the entering of the possession of the shaitan to the person this is the تشبيه المشبه that's been used in the ayah do you have any additional proof from the Quran that maybe, because for me I'll be honest with you it still seems and appears like that's something that takes place in the ayah on the day of judgment this possession that takes place on the day of judgment for the dunya is obviously what the opinions of the Mufesireen have brought forward but it doesn't really clearly mention that this, in those words that this takes place in the dunya I think first of all just to go back a second I really want to just emphasise once again that it wasn't, I didn't put that in I know that it's a good thing 310 years after the hijra a quoting from the likes of Ibn Abbas about the scholars of Tafseer and he doesn't find anyone had an opinion other than that to the point that Ibn Jusey Al-Kelbi in التسهيل he says أجمع المفسيرون the scholars of Tafseer they have consensus on this issue and likewise, not only that but there are others who narrated the consensus or narrated a similar opinion أدردي البغوي أبن الجوزي أبو حيان أبن كثير so this is really the way we understand this ayah the language is clear يتخبط this is something which is very very clear in the Arabic language it's very clear that it's referring to the Junoon, the insanity which comes from and the effects like fainting and so on that come from jinn possession this is the opinion of all of the scholars of Tafseer there isn't anyone who said anything different but we do have other ayat from the Quran which support this and indicate this and from them, one of the ones that is mentioned within some of the books of Tafseer in the ayah of Surat Al-Baqarah that some of them referred and among them Ibn Kathir who referred to the ayah in Surat Al-Araf at the end of Surat Al-Araf إن الذين اتقوا إذا مسهم طائفهم من الشيطان تذكرو فإذا هم مبصيرون ومن هم انفسر ذلك بالغضب ومن هم انفسره بمس الشيطان بصرع ونحوه he said some of them translated this taif that it's the anger caused by the shaitan and others they said that it's the anger caused by the shaitan and others they said that it's the anger caused by the shaitan and others they said that it's the anger caused by the shaitan and others said that it's the touch of the shaitan that causes epilepsy and the likes of it we've already quoted from Surat Al-Jinn وأنه كان رجالهم من الإنسي عودون برجالهم من الجن and that Ikrima said about them that they caused as we said فأصابوهم بالخبلي والجنون they caused them to become insane وقل ربي أعوذ بك من همزات الشياطين وعوذ بك ربي أن يحترون الرغب الأصفحان he said regarding this that the hammazat from the hams it means to to put pressure and to strangle so also we have in this and likewise we have also the even Jariah narrates from Abdulrahman that he said about the hammazat of the shaitan that it's when the shaitan يعني خنقهم when the shaitan strangles and puts pressure upon the person so these are all ayat which indicate or which have some of the scholars of Tafsi have said about them that they indicate this even if the ayat is as clear as like the sun in the middle of the day but these ayat also provide additional support to that concept do you have any other ayat or any other points to add to that I've mentioned that ayat and many more that can be used so what I'm getting so far I think it's great that there are certain ayat in the Quran that have certainly been interpreted by great men great men they were to mean this that the possession takes place in the dunya but I think what's difficult for me is that regardless of the interpretation of men and each of Allah himself that almost refuse this concept in totality and that is the ayat in Surah Ibrahim ayat number 22 where Allah is talking about the day judgment when everything, all the affairs have been decided and shaitan clearly says to the people I had no authority over you except so I had no authority over you none whatsoever and shaitan is a jinn except that I invited you and you responded to me does this ayat not indicate that the maximum of shaitan's powers and therefore any jinn's powers is to whisper to us do you want to start with this one you want me to start you to start and then I'm going to I'll see what I can say later I'm going to start with an example here because I'm trying to understand what the point is that you're trying to bring across right here we're going to take someone just for the purpose of this conversation that jinn's possession exists and a person becomes possessed by the shaitan that person is going to be in one of two cases either that person is somewhat in control of their actions to a greater or lesser degree in which case they are going to only answer for their actions right they're not going to answer for the actions of the shaitan they're only going to answer for what they answered or what مستجبتم إلا أن دعوتكم فاستجبتم لي whatever you answered the shaitan or a person answers the shaitan that's what يوم القيامة you're going to answer for if the shaitan possesses a person and that person reaches the level of insanity then surely now we have a hadith the hadith of Aisha and insham the hadith of Ali ibn Abi Talib رضي الله عنه روفي على القلب عن ثلاث the pen is raised from three people عن المجنون حتى يبرى from the insane person until that person regains their sanity so here I'm not really understanding I'll be honest with you where the problem is with this sultan because to me يوم القيامة you're only going to be taken to account for the things which were within your responsibility but that doesn't negate the potential for the shaitan to afflict a person that was something that just came to my mind I don't know if you had I'll make one more point because this one also came to my mind this is not the only ayah which mentions that the shaitan doesn't have sultan over the people of the believers and in سورة الحجر الله عز وجل said إن عبادي ليس لك عليهم سلطان من تبعك من الغاوين and in سورة النحل إنما سلطان هو على الذين يتولونه والذين هم به مشركون his sultan is only for those people who have taken him as an ally and those people who have associated him in worship with Allah here I also want to understand something I didn't understand is that if we say that the shaitan doesn't have sultan الله عز وجل in two ayat says that he has sultan his sultan is over the people who follow him from those who are the misguided and some of the scholars might even expand that to the muslim who is involved in the big sins and so on but anyways and clearly that the people who take shaitan as an ally and the people who are مشركون who are polytheists the shaitan so now by this principle should we not therefore say if we were to follow this principle to its logical conclusion that the shaitan can possess the disbeliever and the fasik but he can't possess the believer and yet that's also to me those two points this argument when you follow it through it just doesn't stand up and that's a very strong point the last point especially the sheikh mentioned that what sultan it came as negation and affirmation so the qaida is with two textual evidences seemingly it's contradicting itself now يبوى an eye where he says على المسرق يكوموا منتوم بمسرقي إني كفرت بما شركتون منه من قبل إن الظالمينا لهم عداب وناليم when the sheikh brought the ayah ليس لك علي إلا من التبعاكم من الغاوين إلا ما سلطان وعلي الذين اتولونه إنما سلطانه علي الذين اتولونه you have sultan of those who follow you and here he said i never had sultan over you so we have to find a way to reconcile between these two verses تدبرون القرآن ولو كان من أندي غير الله لا وجدوا فيه اختلافا كثيرا هل أنت لا تنسى على القرآن؟ هل أنت لا تعتقد أن تنسى على القرآن؟ وإذا كان لدي القرآن من أي شخص أخرى من الله عز وجل أنت تجدت فيه خطر لذا نعرف أنه لا يوجد خطر في القرآن يجب أن نساعد بينه الشخص الذي ينقذ هنا هو السلطان where it's trying to say I got to you and I took away from you your whole entire ability in other words, I took away from you the ability to think the ability to choose the three that we mentioned for the jinn قدرة, إرادة and عقل he's trying to say to them I never stripped you from those three you had the ability to think you also had the ability to choose and you also had the choice you had قدرة and you had عقل that's what Iblis is trying to say that you had so when a person is possessed and something is said to them or Quran is recited on them if you ask them later did you know what was happening generally they can tell you what took place, what vaguely was happening it doesn't mean that that person will go and do things that they personally don't know what's happening are we saying that it can never happen to the point where Shefan can totally take over someone to the point where they lose everything or are we saying that if that does happen they don't actually fall in this area and we're not held accountable for those I think that is the safer thing to say in fact we can join between the two things and say it doesn't really happen and if it were to happen if we were to say that it happens and we were to say that the Shefan takes complete control over the person to the point where they don't know even where they were or what they did then that person is no different to the person who suffers from certain psychological illnesses in this world that causes them to lose control of what they're doing and the person will not be held accountable for that loss of control and in fact in reality what can we say can we not say that they will be held accountable to the extent that they had control that's what's understood by the حديث روفي ع القلم عن ثلاث وعن المجنون حتى يبرأ that the person the pen will be lifted from three for the insane person until they regain their sanity so a person ultimately is only going to be held accountable يوم القيامة and their paradise or their Hellfire is dependent upon their own decisions and choices and not the Qahar of the Sheitan that the Sheitan literally forced them into things that put them into جهنة rather whatever the Sheitan forced them into if he forces them into something by way of possession they won't be held accountable or they'll only be held accountable to the extent that they followed or listened or cooperated or whatever it may be so to me that seems like a very nice way of reconciling it brings all of the دليل together as well okay I'm not done with you guys yet so in Season 1 on Episode 5 we talked about the authority of the Sunnah and the Hadith in the religion so there is another Hadith that I want to bring mention on this topic which again appears to me and appears at face value that the restriction applied to the Sheitan is the Weswessa is basically whispering to the human being and this is his limit he can't go on further than that and there is a Hadith where a companion came to the Prophet ﷺ and he mentioned that he was having thoughts about Allah that he didn't really want to have and the Prophet ﷺ replied by saying الحمد لله الذي رد كيده إلى الوسوسة he's talking about the plan of the Sheitan the plot of the Sheitan and he mentions praise be to the one who restricted his plot i.e. the Sheitan's plot to whispering again at face value it really does seem like the restriction of Sheitan's ability is whispering and Weswessa to be very honest I don't see that having to do anything with the issue of possession and the evidence for that is that that man's situation could have been just mere Weswessa and not being possessed by Sheitan it doesn't show that is it not a general statement الحمد لله الذي رد كيده so the one that Allah has restricted he didn't say it seems like a general statement is it not? it means Allah what a Sheitan has whispered to you and what he has told you الحمد لله that Allah brought back his plan and plots against him that's what the Hadith mentions it doesn't say that this is all that Sheitan can do or this is the ability that he has I mean that's I don't see how that's related to what we're talking about here but on the topic of Hadith I think that when we look at other Ahadith this becomes extremely clear and indeed there are probably too many Ahadith to even mention in this podcast from the huge number of Ahadith but I'm just going to start I'm going to put one in there just to get us going Insha'Allah so we'll start with the Hadith which is narrated from من رباح from ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما regarding the woman she was known as ام زفر if I'm not mistaken she was a woman who she suffered from epilepsy she said to the Prophet ﷺ اني أسرع واني اتكشف فادعوا الله لي so I have epileptic fits and I become unclothed so make دعاء for me and the Prophet ﷺ said to her إن شئتي صبارتي ولك الجنة if you wish you can be patient and you'll have jannah وإن شئتي دعوة الله واني عافيك and if you wish I will ask Allah to cure you and she said أصبر I will be patient in a narration narrated at this hadith the Hadith the Hadith in Bukhari in Muslim but there's a narration from the Bazar which is also from ابن عباس of the same Hadith in which she said إني أخافوا الخبيث and you jaredني I am scared that this filthy soul this filthy thing الخبيث he says هي الخبيث هو الشيطان the khabith is the shaitan is going to make me unclothed and then الحافة الابن حاجة said after this commenting on this he said هي كان بأم زفر and he said الذي كان بأم زفر كان من صرع الجن لا من صرع الخلق he said this that was afflicting أم زفر it was from the jinn and not from or it appears it was from the jinn it was not from the normal bodily functions that caused it and this is in فتح الباري so here this is just one Hadith and the Hadith is very well known of a woman who had epileptic fits and she it appears that her fits were being caused by the jinn I want to mention something حافة المحجر saying that the word خبيث is a jinn it is taken from the Hadith of the Prophet الله ما إني أعود بك من الخبيثي و الخبيث so it is not just the word of the Hadith so just so we know that that is his deal that is what I want to ask I also want to ask you a question because I started him as a born innovation of a very well known Hadith and one of the reasons it is very well known is because it is in Bukhari and Muslim yet you have to go to another source outside of that to prove your point and you can't bring it from Bukhari and Muslim because neither of them mentioned this particular word so you want to prove your point did they forget it did they get it wrong or why is that first of all we have to understand is صنيعة الإمام بوخاري إمام بوخاري as an individual we have to understand his methodology and his way بوخاري didn't condition in any way shape or form that he's going to bring all of the authentic Hadiths in صحيح he didn't say I'm going to take a Hadith which are صحيح I'm going to take all the Hadiths sorry which are صحيح out there and I'm going to write in my book and anything outside my book is weak no he didn't say that rather he himself authenticated our Hadiths that are not in صحيح but he bought this one in his book he just didn't bring this additional word so what we say is first of all we have to understand بوخاري you know he is the first person they say who condition authenticity that he said my book is going to be the most you know all the Hadiths and everything in there is going to be authentic that's why Iraqi mentions in his thousand lines he says محمد يعني بوخاري وخصة بالترجيحي بوخاري condition in his authenticity and then he said ومسلمون بعض الغربي وعلين فضل ودالون فع and some people they gave virtue to Muslim who came after then بوخاري but the scholars reconciled between and they said بوخاري is better than بوخاري is better in terms of authenticity and بوخاري is better in terms of how he structured his book but بوخاري never said that I'm going to bring all of that حديث which are صحيح because Iraq even states that and everyone stated that and I just as I just said بوخاري himself رحمه الله authenticated many which are not any صحيح but there was a thing that he wanted he wanted specific things that he wanted to see in his صحيح and that's something long for us to go into right now what are his conditions and why he conditioned this and everything but to think and to assume and to say that بوخاري avoided it so there is something in it it's an incorrect premise and if I add حديث which is إن صحيح مسلم من حديث أبي سعيد الخذري that he said that the يمسك بيده على فيه فإن الشيطان يدخل حديث إذا تتاء أحدكم one of you يومس فليمسك بيده على فيه place your hand over your mouth فإن الشيطان يدخل شيطان إن صحيح مسلم حديث من حديث أبي سعيد الخذري it's a حديث you can say you know one of the two side books it's not just using hyperbolic speech to emphasise the importance of covering your mouth I mean I've seen people who yawn without covering their mouth and I've never seen anybody become immediately possessed by the gene or anything like this عدم العلم لا يدل على عدم الوجود just because you don't know doesn't mean it doesn't exist number one number two it doesn't mean that every single person who yawns who doesn't put his hand over his mouth that the شيطان will enter do you know one person that's happened to I mean there could be a lot of people I know they are possessed and this is where the possession started from it could be you see it doesn't have to be it happens to everybody the حديث didn't say it can happen to everybody it's enough that it happens to one person I mean just as a side benefit regarding the same issue Allah says in the Qur'an in a lot of places He said Allah does not guide the the the wrongdoers now you might say to yourself I know a lot of wrongdoers Allah guided In a lot of places Allah guided the wrongdoers He guided the wrongdoers where do you reconcile that so some of the some of the explanation that scholars give is that Allah doesn't guide the wrongdoers doesn't mean all of the wrongdoers it means one person if Allah doesn't do it the ayah it's coming to action okay the ayah has been it's done you see like another example like that that scholars bring is that for example when they define the term واجب they say ما يثابه على فعليه ويعاقبه على تركيه the one who does it will be rewarded for doing the wajib and the one who leaves it will be punished and some of the scholars they said but there are some wajibs that the person leaves off and Allah forgives them so how can your definition of all wajib be this they said if one person is punished for leaving a wajib it's enough our definition our definition stands I understand do you see my friend I also thought on a similar talk when we were talking about the shaitan entering what about the hadith regarding the shaitan when the person goes to sleep in the nose of the person and he lives in the nose and that so I just came to my mind right now I was just thinking I had written a note on it before but it just came and that's also another similar kind of narration it's a very well known narration regarding the shaitan when a person sleeps the shaitan sleeps or the shaitan spends the night in his in his nose right أثماني بن عاص أثماني بن العاص yeah which one is it يسعني بن ماجه where the prophet was said أخرج عدو الله come out are there not other narrations of the same hadith where this wording isn't mentioned again this one is authentic I mean it's some scholars they try to weaken because of the disconnection between ومن هالي بن عمرين يقومون بأنه صحيح يحمس عيد قطان ومن هالي بن عمرين يقومون بأنه صحيح وأنه صحيح one call that said the second is that he hasn't heard from يعلبن مرة but we can avoid all of that by having a chain that fulfills that who people have narrated from يعلبن مرة other than such as so what is this hadith first of all so we mentioned just two right now right so we mentioned the hadith let's just bring that one out the way that he said he said something appeared to me in my prayers حتى ما أدري ما أصلي to the point that I didn't know I was praying he came to the message of Allah he said this to him حتى لا أدري ما أصلي something appeared to me in my I don't know what I'm praying the prophets I said to him ذاك الشيطان come here he said he came near to him and the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said about him فضرى بصدري بيدي he struck my chest with his hand وتفر في فمي and he spat into my mouth وقال أخرج عدو والله ففعل ذلك ثلاثة مرات and where is this hadith nowated this hadith we said is in Ibn Maja it was declared by the judge it was declared also by بشار عود معروف all of them declared this hadith in سنة Ibn Maja to be حديث وإنثمان بالأس شيخ وشو مانس انت حديثة فيعلى إبن مرى that a woman she came عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه أتاته إمراءة ببن لها قد أصابه لما and this word لما actually I really want to stop on this because I came back to this on the dictionary so this is affliction by the jinn the Arabs used this word for a child that is اللما the child that is afflicted by the jinn طرف من الجنون he was afflicted by insanity that came from the jinn فقال الله النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم the prophet says to this small child or said to the jinn within the child أخرج عدو والله أنا رسول الله قال فبره he became completely better so what does that mean leave or enemy of Allah and I am the messenger of Allah and this hadith he says بأحمد طبراني تبريزي mentioned it in his مشكات and he said he said it's authentic because of it's shawahid ابن كثير also said similar and also ابن كثير said these chains support each other فهذه طرق جيدة متعددة to feed غلبة الظن أو القطع عند المتباحر أن يعلب المرة حدث بهذه القصة في الجملة he said these chains also support each other and they indicate that يعلب المرة really did tell this story as we see it here for the most part as it is in these narrations those who try to weaken it specifically those who weaken it because of one narrator المنهارب العامل and المنهارب العامل number one is that he is ضعيف as يحمل سعيد القطع and also another thing is he never met يعلى ابن مره but we can avoid that in two angles we can use a متابع and we can also use a shawahid متابع is that other people have narrated from يعلى ابن مره the same hadith we can avoid him from them is عبدالله ابن حفس عبدالرحمان ابن عبدالعزيس and also عمر ابن عبدالله and عبدالله ابن حفس عحما월 slateر مصند with that chain the chain of عبدالرحمان ابن عبدالعزيز عحما월 أ겁 also theгريب� behaviors عمر ابن عبدالله يهشف لفلان now we have are لسن مطابع and a she Record from��جابر وع월ه ح증تي أن يعلب المرأة المتحدة لذلك لدينا شاهد ومتابعة المتحدة المتحدة بجابر وطبراني المتحدة بأوسط هذا يمكنني أن أتذكره أحمد أعتقد أنه متحدة أنا لست too sure about أحمد هذا صحيح ونحن ليس فقط ونحن now we come to the Hadith of Osama bin Zaid رضي الله عن when he spoke about going out with the messenger of Allah and he said a woman came to the messenger of Allah صبي لها she had a child with her and she said إلى الساعة she said by the one who sent you with the truth he remains like he's being strangled since the day that I gave birth to him until this time now and the prophets then he spat into his mouth ثم قال أخرج عدو الله فإني رسول الله leave the enemy of Allah I am the messenger of Allah it's a hadith narrated by Al-Bayhaqi in Al-Dala'il by Abu Nu'aym Al-Busiri he brought it in the Zawa'id and Al-Hafid ibn Hajeg he declared the hadith to be he said about this hadith it is a fair chain of narration it's another yet another hadith of a similar incident which happened with the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم when the sheikh mentions he doesn't mean that the prophet he spat like that it means blowing with a bit of a spittle but it's different from a nefth when you blow like that without the the nefth is when you blow and بصق means when you spit only we're still going with the hadith we haven't finished yet we haven't finished with the hadith I'm not even going to go to the hadith of Safiyah رضي الله عنها yet because we'll come back to that or we'll bring this hadith of Safiyah why not the hadith of Safiyah رضي الله عنها in which the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم إن الشيطان يجري من الإنساني مجرق دم the shaitan he flows through the person in the way that the blood flows or the place that the blood flows and this was used as an evidence جن بزشن بايل قرطبي أنا بن حجر الهيتم أنا البقائي أنا بن حجر أسقالاني أنت موفق الدين عبداللطيف البغدادي أنا قاسم in his تفسير أنا النوة we mentioned it from some of the shafi'ah I think it was Al-Qa'zi Al-Qa'zi عياض he mentioned it from that this hadith it refers to something real يعني that the shaitan really truly flows through a person the places that the blood is the contents of this hadith when the Prophet ﷺ was walking with his wife and we saw it came across a group of companions and to clarify to them that this was his wife he mentioned this is that not to do more with suspicion the companions weren't like having epileptic fits at the time No doubt that's the story of the hadith is like that but that's not what all those scholars that I quoted to you all use this hadith as an evidence for jinn possession and we quote also you can quote from Surat An-Nas Alladhi wa Suy Sufi Alladhi wa Suy Sufi صدور In-Nas he whispers into the hearts of men there are so many narrations that mention like this that use words indicating that the whispering of the shaitan the touch of the shaitan is something which exists externally and it exists within a person as well do you agree sheikh with that Sorry he does Sorry just to clarify if I whisper something into your ear I'm not inside your ear I'm outside but that's why the ayah doesn't say Alladhi wa Suy Sufi Alladhi wa Suy Sufi Alladhi wa Suy Sufi In the ears of the people No of course but even if the shaitan obviously doesn't have to whisper into our ears he can whisper into our hearts because he's because he it doesn't mean he's imagine a dam that's why I tell you well the shaitan needs to be close to us to whisper into our ears or can you whisper from far So that's your usage of the ayah is an ayah which is an is a general word for us it means whisper externally and also internally Okay so why are you why are you restricting the meaning into one of those I would say why are you adding the internal because it falls under the T meaning you west whistle he does west west with all the hadiths we mentioned the west west is those two forms he does it externally and he does it internally we have both of those the ayah can take both meanings why have you chosen one and eliminated the other I'll tell you what because if shaitan was able to possess us it would be one of his greatest powers over us it would be a huge power and the context of this ayah is we're seeking refuge from Allah from this so we're actually seeking refuge from the whispering of shaitan why didn't Allah just ask us to seek refuge from the possession of shaitan the mess Okay I have a question don't you think that the shaitan whispering to you and shaitan whispering to you from outside both of them are the same effect in a sense where both times he's convinced to you what he wants I think one the whispering remember the word whispering I'm talking about the English language anyway whispering is someone trying to influence someone with their words possession is a whole new topic you're taking over you're taking to a certain extent you're taking control of my body you're making me do things that I didn't want to do whispering does not have that connotation at all do you agree I don't know I think shaitan explains a bit more but I think some people have the idea that possession is a person who's Majnun fully Majnun he's crazy he doesn't know what's happening I think the right word to use here is people have the idea that there are no shades of grey within possession maybe that's the right way to say people are like it's either zero control or it's either 100% control it's not there is no evidence and that if one of the strongest evidence is against that when he said that something appeared out of that he said something appeared for me in Salawat he said that I became Majnun I don't know where I am all day I'm just walking like a zombie he said during my prayers something happens where I become confused about how much I prayed so like a whisper to confusion maybe could be said could be exactly that's why the professor to me the fact that the shaitan is within and without is something which is mentioned repeatedly in different ways within the Quran the Sunnah one of which is but I was still I hadn't finished with my hadith I was still going I still had I still had a hadith that I wanted to raise with you I wanted to raise with you the hadith of in which the messenger of Allah I said he used to say and he mentioned he used to say وعوذو بك أن يتخبطني الشيطان عند الموت What do you mean? I seek refuge with you I'm the same يتخبطني الشيطان من المست the same that is mentioned in the ayah that the shaitan afflicts me at the time of death I'm still on the side because we still had تخبطني something imaginary it doesn't really exist so now we have the prophets I said making du'a to protect him from something imaginary or maybe not it doesn't doesn't also really make sense either this hadith narrated by Ahmed Abu Dawood النساء الحاكم دكالة بصحيح الذهبي agreed with him الشيخ ناصر agreed with him قادر الارنعوت صدس نادو حسن and the word affliction here is not a general in the sense of being influenced because in the ayah it mentioned mess with affliction but in the ayah it mentioned it was a bit it's a bit level it's a bit level above what's what's here you know تخبطه الشيطان it's a level which is above the level of always was and again we still we're talking about the hadith narrated by Ahmed ترمي دهبي صعيد الخدري that the prophet صعب صعب صعب عود بالله السمير عليم من الشيطان الرجيم و here again what it mentions here is regarding Al-Hams here it mentions something which is said about it جنسن من الجنوني وصراع it's a kind of insanity and a kind of like epilepsy or epilepsy or fainting so we say we have really this is something very well established in this one if that's the case if it's so clear card so easy for us to understand that why have there been great scholars who have denied this for example Ibn Hazm said to claim that Shaytan can possess people and take control of them is to speak without knowledge and this is haram this issue can only be known through a sound report and we don't have any sound report from the Prophet ﷺ in this regard فخردين الرازي said Shaytan has no power whatsoever to cause people to fall into illness or pain it's funny you say that she has a quote from Ibn Hazm and this quote in which Ibn Hazm he said it in الفصل في الملل والأهواء والنحن he said here and he said فذكر عز وجل تأثير الشيطان في المسروع الله عز وجل mentioned that the Shaytan has an effect on the person suffering epilepsy فصحة أن الشيطان يمسل إنسان الذي يسلطه الله عليه مسن كما جاء في القرآن فهذا يمسل أن الشيطان يمسل من الطريق الذي الله has given them authority to do so with a mess that is mentioned in the Qur'an and that's a quote from Ibn Hazm it's still going from Ibn Hazm he mentioned that Allah عز وجل causes الصرع the jinn to cause he allows the jinn to cause epilepsy تخبط for the person to become insane حين إذن كمانوا شاهدوا at this moment the same way that we witness with our own eyes about how he witnesses it with his own eyes he said وهذا هو نص القرآن this is the text of the Qur'an وما تجبه المشاهدة and that which we see with our own eyes وما زاد على هذا فخرفات he said whatever is extra to this whatever people say extra to this this is you know innovations and statements that have no basis so that's how to be understand this we've got two almost conflicting quotes from the same person إنه حزم رحمه الله even though we love him and we respect him as a sheikh and an imam but they say that he had a lot of mistakes especially when it came to issues of hadith and even in عقيدة they say and in hadith he's also a person who he criticized for example and he said that is someone who's not known when tirmidi is what from one of the six books of hadith so he has shudood like these things which are strange and awkward that he might sometimes say like that and a lot of the times you find contradicting statements of his where he affirms and negates things was it a phase he went through or something that became clear to them I mean it's one of the funny things that the scholars mention is that إنه حزم they say he never done hajj in his life he never done hajj even though he's from a very rich family one of the people was very rich father was a minister so he was rich there were the refutations that used to take place between him and one of the things that they said to each other was excuse me but I'm a person who who learned under the candle I had to rewrite under the candle I didn't have nothing and إنه حزم said were you also excuse me I learned under pearls and pearls and so they said he wrote a book called الحجة الوداع where he talked about how to do hajj and they said he did a hundred mistakes because because he didn't do hajj himself he didn't go there to see and do it himself على كل حال إبن حزم رحمه الله these things and other things like that they said he's a جهم جهمية like dangerous in his birth so he has شواد and تخبطات sometimes like these issues which especially when issues are إجماع sometimes he just goes off the إجماع so there's a recital written اذا ظاهرية يعتدوا في الإجماع يعتدوا في الخلاف بظاهرية خلاف when there is an إجماع for example we have an إجماع ظاهرية say something ظاهرية is the belief that he's off the phone he took from Abu Dawood الظاهرية is there a khilaf taken into consideration once we've had any consensus in an issue do we give any weight to the ظاهرية there's a discussion going on in that regard so here we say we have and consensus of great noble imams we have إجماع in terms of تفسيل of the ayah تخبطوا الشيطان من المس the ayah is إجماع have no other interpretation of that ayah and that's important you mentioned and and and this is the only power that sheitan has I mean doesn't this break the إجماع you're talking about the ayah what did he say فخدين رزي what did he say فخدين رزي شيطان has no power whatsoever to cause people to fall into illness or pain if he has no power to do that and how can he possess someone so I mean again we have to we're gonna get things wrong if we don't take this approach القائد is I'd say the same thing to you sorry just explain that in English the statements of the scholars they need evidences I'm not saying to this is the speech of all the other ayats that we brought from the Quran they were interpretations but a consensus of people a consensus of proof now it's a proof like the Quran and what's the evidence for that consensus of proof I know it's a slight tangent but how can you say that Allah says anyone who diverts from the path of Allah and the messenger and the path of the believers the path of the believers means the consensus of the Muslim and then Allah says He said يَا الَّذِينَ عَوْطِعُ اللَّهَ وَعَوْطِعُ الْرَسُولَةَ وَأُولِينَ أَمْرِي مِنْكُمْ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْئٍ فَرُدُّوا إِلَا اللَّهِ وَالْرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِنْ أَخِرْ الله says if you differ in something bring it back to the Quran in the Sunnah the مفهوم المخالف which is the reverse understanding of it is that if we do not differ we don't bring it back to the Quran in the Sunnah I mean there's a consensus okay so the consensus is a hugra there's a Hadith narrated by حديث عبليه عمر رضي الله تلميذي ناريته لنسونن تلميذي ناريته لنسجامة من حديث عبدالله من عمر رضي الله تعالى عنهما where the process I said لا تجتب عمتي على الضلالة my umma do not come together upon misguidance so the fact that all of that there was a consensus upon the understanding of this I and so to Bakla it means we have no choice but to understand it this way that's something very important that we put that clear so if فقر الدين الرازي say something if we find عبو عليه الجبائي saying something which is عمر رضي الله عبو بكر الرازي saying something which they hold that the jean cannot possess a person we say to them you know the calam of the consensus of this consensus that we have is going to take president's order and also with فقر الدين الرازي I must admit I would like to go back to that statement because I gather together a long list of people who went against this and he has a statement saying that the possession can happen and what I saw is the opposite from him and also he's not from the list of well-known people who came out with this in fact if we talk about the well-known people who came out with this they are from three groups only that I have found and I've been able to find extra I found primarily the معتزلة and almost everybody who said this was someone who did an explanation or a commentary on الكشاف by زمخشل almost all of that this is a معتزلة thing by this you're talking about the rejection of the possibility of jim possession secondly the second group the جهمية شيخ الاسام تيمي I mentioned or أبن حجر I hated me some others mentioned جهمية and thirdly some of the رافضة one or two I found not that you need to be honest we have a great deal of concern for that but so in all honesty the only people you have who don't say that jim possess people are the معتزلة and the جهمية and the رافضة and a lot of people are watching here right now going to be like on the معتزلة not Muslims who are they? what are they? what are they? what are they? do they have any or do you have any a group of Christianity? poet معتزلة where a group that came out at the time of حسن البصري ربي غرب recon حسن البصري by the name من عطا واصل came to حسن البصري and he says something to him regarding the issue of مرتك義 الكامير Rusni لقد رأيت أن هذا المن يذهب بطريقة الوضع كما أنه لا يذهب في المنطقة right وكانه يخبره هو أنه يقول إعتزل عنه يذهب مننا لذلك الوضع المعتزلة يأتي من هنا ومن واصم عطاقه عمر بن عبيد وقام بأحمد بن حمد للتوقف بشري المريسي وتمامة بن أشراس وحمد بن دواد ونشارد هذه المجموعة ونحن نتعود ونقل ببليفهم وبيشري المريسي وأحمد بن دواد ومامة بن أشراس ونقل ببليفهم ومن واصم عمد بن دواد ببليفهم ونقل ببليفهم ونقل ببليفهم ونقل ببليفهم هذه توجد 3 أباسي ليدس هارون الرشيد من الممكن أن يتركوا ومكتبوا ومخلقوا ومجموعةهم في المجموعة فهم يتركون في حالة هارون الرشيد ولكن هارون الرشيد و إلى المرد و죠هب هارون الرشيد—انضي đرس 🦸 وليس كثيرًا كما أن Arin the ummah رأيهم الشهر رأيهمهم عظيمهم توضي شخص mind بحث المقادل القضاة في و Höد المقادل القضاء ويضعوا الى翼 فهام وينص يقوم marvel و يجب أن يكون هناك محاولة على المظهر هذا why all these unseen they say we can't internalize it and that's why we're finally a lot of these current modern دوارة ونقل الله They hold the مرتزلة but if they're really not coming out with anything new they're just propagating they're regurgitating what was mentioned by the مرتزلة And that's interesting to share on that point is that when you do a summary of the people who held this opinion that the Shaytan doesn't possess people you see really two groups of people you see a group of people who really held that belief and they understood it and they held it We had mentioned زمخ شرينا كالشاف We have mentioned جوبا, we mentioned a couple of others from the مرتزلة who had this belief but you see some other people and what the علماء say about them is they say about them they were from the شراح and from the people who commented and they made comments on الكشاف and all they did is just copy without thinking literally just copy the opinions of the مرتزلة without even reflecting upon them Now I think this is a good point to talk about إجماع because I have some quotes here which are or which indicate that there is consensus from that إماء of إسلام from أهل السنة والجماعة that the jinn enter into the body and consensus is an evidence as شخص already explained So I'm just going to mention a few and we can start discussing them إن شاء الله We're going to start with أبو الحسن العشأري who mentioned in his book الابانة وإن الشيطان يوسسول الإنسان ويشككه ويتخبطه خلافاً لقول المعتزلة والجهمية كما قال عز وجل Then he mentioned the ayah الذين يأكولون الربا لا يقومون إلا كما يقوموا الذين يخبضوا الشيطان من المسم He said the belief of أهل السنة is that the shaitan whispers to the person and causes him doubt and touches him with insanity in opposition to what the معتزلة say and the جهمية say as Allah عز وجل said then he quoted the ayah from صورة البقرة even this is not that you have to understand this خلاف is not between أهل السنة and the أشاعر as well the أشاعر are with us on the issue of jinn possession so you can see the dispute here of the issue of jinn possession is أهل السنة on one side and the معتزلة and the جهمية on one side here you take your picture which group are you going to take