 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. We're delighted to have you here. This is wonderful to be able to see this kind of a turnout. I must say, Herr Minister, normally we don't see enthusiastic, excited crowds for German ministers right after lunch. People are usually sleeping rather peacefully in the audience. This will be a rare, pleasant surprise for all of us. Thank you for coming. I'm John Hamery. I'm the president here at CSS. It's we're delighted to welcome and co-host this event. We're pleased that we're here, and I'm going to turn over the formalities to my friend Ulf Gardski. I was going to introduce the minister. Thank you for coming. Oh, turn off, turn your phones to silent stun, okay? I'm gonna, and if anybody goes off and you start talking, I'm gonna haul you out rather indecorously. So, okay. Ulf, come on up here. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Hamery, for your kind introduction. On behalf of the Hans Seidel Foundation, I would like to welcome all of you here this afternoon. Again, a big thank you to Dr. Hamery and his team for hosting us here today. And judged by the audience, this is a very important and timely discussion. It is a great pleasure and privilege to introduce today's keynote speaker, Germany's defense minister, Karl-Gio Dotzigutenberg. The good news, of course, for me is that the minister doesn't really need any introduction, but to take an expression I used earlier this year when I introduced him as a new German economics minister to a DC audience, I would say that the best way to describe him is to say that he is a troubleshooter. And of course, I'm kind of digressing a little bit from my script here, but the best way to translate troubleshooter into German, for those of you who speak it, is Krisenbewältiger, which is more abbreviated as Karthe, but this is within the CSU orbit only, I guess. Karl-Gio Dotzigutenberg was first elected to the Bundestag in 2002. And when I say troubleshooter, you can see that he focused early on rebuilding transatlantic relations and German-American relations in the wake of the Iraq war. He has come to Washington more than any other German politician, and I venture to say more than any other European politician in recent years. Last fall after the CSU suffered its first major electoral defeat in 46 years, Karl-Gio Dotzigutenberg was appointed the CSU Secretary General to get the party back on track. This February, he was named Germany's new economics minister in the midst of the biggest financial and economic crisis in decades. Three weeks ago, Karl-Gio Dotzigutenberg was appointed Germany's new defense minister. One of the toughest jobs out there, given the security challenges we face, we Germans, but also our allies, of course, face in Afghanistan and elsewhere. At the same time, of course, this latest important assignment marks a return to the minister's original passion, I should add, namely foreign security and defense policy. We are delighted and truly honored that you are here today. And so please join me in welcoming Germany's new defense minister, his Excellency, Dr. Karl-Gio Dotzigutenberg. Thank you very much, John Henry, and Wolf, thank you for much to kind words. I'm still struggling with the sentence of John about enthusiasm in German ministers. I may give that to colleagues, that very sentence, but it's great to be back, and it's good to see so many friends here, and thank you all for coming, and I hope that we find some time to discuss afterwards, and also to exchange a couple of views informally. And it won't be the last time for the next weeks and months, and probably hopefully years to come that I have the opportunity to travel a bit more often than during the last months, where I was a bit distracted by having the job of being the economic minister, and I changed from General Motors now to Generals and Real Motors, and I'm quite happy to, let's say, to have had the chance to hand over that very topic to an esteemed colleague, Brutale, who seems to be quite happy to have that very issue on his hands. But thank you very much CSIS for giving me the chance to address such a distinguished group of colleagues, friends, and guests today, and also a remarkable group of German journalists. I'm happy to have them with me today, and some of them who are in Washington, and good to see many, many here as well. And as it has already been pointed out by Wolf, it's really getting back to the roots and getting back to a passion of security policy and foreign policy, and I've had a rather busy morning already, or busy day, we flew in quite late this morning, there was fog in Paris, not politically, but there was real fog in Paris this morning, and so we came in late and we had a meeting this morning, a first meeting with Secretary Gates, and then we talked to Jim Jones and now to Jim Steinberg to get also an impression of the coherence of the three houses here, and to get also their views on common challenges we are facing right now, and challenges we need to tackle together. It's the year 2009, ladies and gentlemen, is a specific year and a very important year for Germany. We have celebrated 60 years of the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany. We have celebrated maybe a bit too silent 60 years of our constitution, a bit of a footnote character during the last months, and I think 60 years of our constitution is also reason to celebrate, and just a couple of days ago we celebrated together 20 years of the fall of the Berlin Wall, and I think that was a remarkable moment, seeing our friends and partners walking through the Brandenburg Gate from the east to the west. I also recall in that respect seeing the Russian President walking through the Brandenburg Gate from the east to the west, and it was an emotional moment with rainy that day, but also good and remarkable speeches by the President via video, but also by the Secretary of State, highly appreciated by the German public and also by all of us. It was a very, very moment, a very specific moment, and I just would like to underline that this reunification in freedom of Germany now 19 to 20 years ago would not have been possible without the generous and continuous support of the United States, and we will, and we shall never forget this. And this is also, I wouldn't call it a task, but this is certainly a responsibility for me and for others to again and again remind, also to remind the younger generation in Germany, it's, for me it was, it's like yesterday, and I'm not, I'm quite still quite young fellow in this, in this business, but we have, we have now 20 year old young people already studying that haven't, haven't been born at the time of the fall of the wall, and for many of us it seems like yesterday, and to explain our gratitude and to explain who deserves all, not only respect but also this gratefulness from our side is certainly a responsibility for German politicians specifically. Looking at Germany from the outside, despite the financial crisis right now, one might see a powerful country, fourth biggest economic power in the world, and still, there's a bit of a, a bit of a fight going on, leading export nation, we are, we are in, in, in a clinch with China in that regard, quotation marks, and in security terms and in terms of foreign affairs, Germany has gone a long way in a comparably short time, and this sentence is not an excuse but an explanation also for a couple of things I may say in, in the next, within the next minutes. In the meanwhile we are also active members of numerous international organizations, and we have soldiers deployed in 10 operations across the world, 10 operations. We need to remind also the German public again and again that this spectrum we already fulfill in the meanwhile, and, and as many of you know there will be the first steps now in this, in this new post for me means to explain five of those mandates and those operations already in the first weeks of, in, in, in the ministry now because we have to prolong the mandates, now already in November and December of this year, the mandates of a couple of those operations. I will come back to one or two of them, but we are in Germany also as we all are probably still in the process of learning. One thing for example that many of us still have not acknowledged is that with this new found, can we call it normality after the fall of the Berlin Wall comes that, within this new found normality comes responsibility. Some of us unfortunately mistake the German responsibility to act with a responsibility to warn against action, and their perceived moral high ground from which they lightheartedly criticize the actions of others easily forgets that also the absence of action can be morally wrong. A functioning relationship means being frank, but it certainly does not mean to establish a culture of mutual finger pointing. I'm talking here about the relationship between the both of our countries with the transatlantic relationship as, as such and during the last years we have seen moments where this mutual finger pointing occurred above the surface and there were many characters who worked against this, this culture in quotation marks and would like to praise in that regard our ambassador Klaus Schariot and others who are doing a remarkable job over here of not having this culture established as such. You may think that these are just simple maybe trivial aspects or basics maybe, but for us it is something that we still have to get used to in terms of security policy. For many decades Germany was able to slipstream the United States. However, as as I have referred to a reticence reunification we have tried to live up to our challenges and to our tasks. Despite all achievements more steps remain to be made. What is now still exceptional, German military deployments needs to become more common and needs to become thus more widely accepted and this was one of the reasons why I, to the surprise of some in Germany, tried to find a new language a couple of weeks ago when it came to the explanation and the descriptions. For our military deployments to find a language which is blunt, which is clear and which tries to describe what I think is a reality and we have had a tendency in German politics all over the party lines to somehow let's call it euphemistically out balance our language when it came for instance to Afghanistan and what we're doing there and why we're doing it and what's actually happening there and somewhere startled and very surprised that's the term war or that's the term actually term war suddenly played a role in public discussion now in Germany but I think it is necessary that we leave that discussion it is necessary that we also keep in mind what reactions that may cause may be on the legal level it's a sub discussion we are having and may it be on the emotional level as for decades the risk to the safety of our country has been so very real for us Germans tangible most but the change towards the risk management of today's security policy is not easy we all faced with new and increasingly complex threats and challenges we have discussed them very often also at CSIS and in today's security environment and this is a truism threats no longer respect borders or geographical distances what happens hundreds and thousands of miles away in a different country may have direct effect on our own existence we have to be careful not to use this few as an excuse both sides of the Atlantic but we all have to be aware of the asymmetries that have been inflationary cited quoted during the last couple of years but also still to know that we sometimes tend to act and react rather symmetrical towards the asymmetries we are facing right now but this is not odd analysis of future trends such as the 2008 National Intelligence Council study indicate that the yes is faced with a relative decline in power for Europe things look even gloomier it is said to lose much of its influence and current status what a lovely perspective ladies and gentlemen on the other hand new powers emerge China and India are just two of them in recent years we have allowed the transatlantic partnership and NATO it's most important forum to drift at least to a certain extent and there's quite some discussion going on right now in Germany whether the transatlantic partnership and the transatlantic ties still have the same or even higher relevance than for instance the trans-pacific times I'm not occurring through a trip that is taking place right now definitely not but we all have to be aware that at least those ties are getting stronger and from a European from a German perspective we not only need to discuss it but also see it as a reason to foster and to strengthen the transatlantic ties not to follow them only with romantic or nostalgic fuse entity-driven eyes in Europe during the last couple of years as you all have followed to a certain extent anti-americanism grew accusing the US of being responsible for many crises around the world of doing too much of not doing enough or of not doing it right it's what we've heard the whole spectrum again and again and brought us to the point where the public diplomacy works yes or no again on both sides of the Atlantic to America in turn Europe seemed to have outlived itself of being slow being backward bureaucratic and with little strategic vision I have heard that again and again the only thing I agree with is the bureaucratic aspect so can we really afford all this certainly not none of us is able to tackle the challenges we face alone we have heard that very often but the only way to success is through cooperation shared goals but also shared emotions again and again and also shared burdens with our transatlantic alliance we have we actually have proven tested and mutually planned structures working through such partnerships leads to much better results than working in ad hoc coalitions of the willing but the tree on which the cherries to pick grow is still existent and we need to take that into account as well so contributing to peace and stability especially in Afghanistan is our top priority my first trip abroad let me brought me to Afghanistan last week was a let's call it try to find a mildest phrase it was an interesting trip showed many many different facets and it was important for me to visit and I hope that it's not being misunderstood to visit the troops before the partners to explain the sentence to my wife as well but it was a necessary visit and the necessary visit again to explain what we are doing that is the first operation that followed an attack on one of the alliance members for nature this mission is unprecedented in scope in breadth and complexity both in civil and the military terms and this is why visiting Afghanistan was priority to me I wanted to gain another firsthand inside and talk to various actress involved their countless pictures of Kabul and Kunduz in my mind now pictures of a difficult situation for both our soldiers and the Afghan people and to be very honest Kabul at the moment is more fortress than a lively village or city and our soldiers are in combat unfortunately far from stabilization a pretty familiar situation for American forces as I recall it however still challenging again so it's also reason to use more of a clear language and because of the extremely volatile security situation in Kunduz I ordered an increase in troops to reinforce a quick reaction force another hundred and twenty and here in Washington when talking about Afghanistan I'm being asked also now new position will Germany take on a greater role in Afghanistan my answer is all of us who are engaged in Afghanistan have to continuously rethink their commitment to make Afghanistan a success and Germany in general is willing and prepared to contribute adequately if the fundaments are set in the right way and some of the fundaments we are waiting for the next weeks to come how will we get there I envisage has three step approach first we need an updated strategy with a clear aim and clear benchmarks and I underline the word clear aim and clear benchmarks and not just phrases and not just vague impressions but benchmarks that deserve the name because we have to struggle in Germany as in many other countries and partner nations as well with the inflationary use of the term exit strategy and the question is how we use the word exit strategy or whether we use it is exit strategy just often away or does it actually mean handover in responsibility and does it then follow a clear structure and does it follow a clear strategy as such the first one secondly once this is agreed upon about clear aims and clear benchmarks we have to ensure that all relevant actors assume their roles and certainly against the background of the decisions of the international community Germany will adjust its engagement that means precisely that we will prolong our mandate this December unchanged first of all with our 4500 troops we have sent to Afghanistan we were still at the third biggest troop supplier but that we all eagerly waiting for the announcement the president has to make over here because that probably will be around the time when we have to prolong the mandate in Germany and that we have already started a discussion about our impulses for a strategy a renewed strategy for Afghanistan and that those impulses will be impulses also for the Afghanistan conference that will seemingly take place at the end of January next year and in the light of this Afghanistan conference in the light of the impulses we would also like to see in coherence not only with European partners but also with our transatlantic partners a reassessment of the German commitment towards Afghanistan is possible I cannot say today to what direction but I will say that we will certainly rethink our mandate that we are prolonging now this December but for us we need the Fundament and the Fundament will be one pillar certainly the American announcement and on the other hand secondly which is let's say one of the most interesting parts as well is what we can expect from the Afghan government we know that there has been specific meeting today in Kabul and we certainly need more than just a continuous smile of a president and repeatedly promises and promises and promises again more than just words we need the Afghan government to act and we need also clear benchmarks in respect of how the Afghan government could be measured if you want to withdraw internationally our forces from Afghanistan at some point in the not too distant future through a handover in responsibility as we call it in both sides in the of the Atlantic and specifically as we try to call it in Germany as well we need those clear benchmarks meaning criteria for success as well as understandable and responsible timelines our priorities are very similar to those I hear and sense over here security good governance and institution building this armament where it's necessary reconciliation and reintegration economic development and Afghanistan's regional role and also an understanding of the regional partners of the of the of the neighbors and those in the region which does not only mean Pakistan but certainly Pakistan but also India India is frequently forgotten when it comes to the future of Afghanistan and Pakistan in our German discussion if I may say so and also the Central Asian States and certainly also Iran exchange a couple of views about Iran this morning as well from another context so looking at the variety and complexity of the task in here in these fields it becomes clear that we need different actors to engage experts who have the knowledge and the resources which are needed so far unfortunately there's been a tendency to focus on the military for much of this further I strongly object to voices and I was one of those voices a couple of years ago that call Afghanistan a litmus test for the Alliance to me it is rather a litmus test to the whole of the international community and you may we should rethink what kind of pressure put on the shoulders of the institutions we are having and what results this may and can cause conflict conflict resolution in Afghanistan cannot be done with military means only but an unbelievably boring sentence but how unbelievable true hence besides formulating a clear strategy for success we need to agree on a pragmatic and binding work share every actor involved at the national as well as international level needs to perform and show full commitment and I clearly underlined very positively what I hear over here what I've heard from gentlemen crystal last week in Kabul that the term regionalization is gaining more and more grounds and that the regional aspects of the forthcoming hopefully of the forthcoming strategy of playing a significant role and this is the experience we have had within our comprehensive approach that this might be made maybe key for any excess I've talked about the Afghan government of about the promises we've heard so far may it be countering corruption may it be countering the crime and the work on good governance and other things they need to act as I've said and our expectations are high Germany and the international community are not willing to help now will be continue sending our soldiers and civilian workers indefinitely if the Afghans don't take over their share in building up their country now I come to the third step Germany and our commitment and I have already stressed what our plans are and how we will try to form our commitment for the next week and months is to come but then also for the next years to come the I know that the part of that's the speech I have to have to have to hold here is also on NATO's new strategic concept but I also know what it means to speak longer than 15 to 20 minutes before such an audience and of not allowing a clear discussion and other things I just would like to to make two points one is I think that we have a common and a significant chance next year when it comes to formulate also this time we are in the reflection phase right now to formulate the new strategic concept of NATO to bridge certain elements of frustration we have seen to overcome certain deficits in in in in consensus building and other things to be aware and to be sure that we need probably creativity to find a structure that works on both sides and that brings us to the core of NATO as such the relevance of article 5 is more than just high also the discussion that is linked to article 5 and to the new challenges that may be that may be linked to article 5 we have had the discussions for years now ready may the energy question one that could be linked to article 5 cyber war and other things but this is a necessary discussion one of utmost importance and also again and again how political can and may the discussions be with the NATO I think we haven't found common grounds here yet but this is one of the discussions we are leading at the moment as well just the footnotes because I have pages and pages and pages here but a particular long term point of concern again and again is the NATO EU relationship and I remember many many discussions we have had on that and if I talk about the relationship I also talk about the lack the lack thereof and we all know that these two organizations can be found in nearly every major theater of operation furthermore they have almost identical men members and what is this if not a living proof of the importance of these organizations working together and the aim of complementarity remains to be one of the main goals and of the most important of the most important aims and the question to avoid duplications but also to be able and capable to act and to react remains really within our discussion as well last point because I've been asked here again some of you have read the coalition treaty of the CDOC is your an FTP a remarkable piece of paper and there was one sentence that led to let's call it mildly disturbances over here and that was the question of how we handle possible because it's still a secret as we all know possible nukes on German grounds and to give you one answer because I've been asked here again and as well this is not a question we would like to see in treated unilaterally or just bilaterally but it has to be treated if at all within the coalition and it has to be treated within nature as such and we have to keep in mind what any step means as a consequence and what the consequence could be is for instance the three these three nays within nature it could have partners in mind who probably be glad to offer their grounds and their soil for any weapons but the question is whether that makes sense then for the security structures within Europe nevertheless was just important for me to to a repeat my colleague Ido Westerwelle who exactly said that when he was here I just would like to underline that because there was some misperception specifically in Germany and also one of the discussions that could have been avoided and as we are in a phase right now that some struggle with the fact that they are still in power in Germany and other struggle with the fact that they are after 11 years finally in power I think we will come together and we come to the conclusion despite all of those things that this is a government which is clearly committed to transatlantic structures transatlantic friendship and for me it is an honor and pleasure to be here and to be here more often than during the last couple of months thank you very much thank you Mr. Minister thank you very very much for those very comprehensive remarks this afternoon you you answered all the questions that the speech title held and we are indeed very grateful for that good afternoon my name is Heather Conley I have the great privilege of directing the Europe program here at CSIS and I'm delighted to be able to moderate the next half an hour or so of question and answer period and dialogue just as a one good housekeeping note if you do have a question for the minister please raise your hand I will point to you and there will be a microphone that is passed to you and please provide your name and affiliation before you pose the question to the minister I have only two roles as moderator one is to make sure the minister is not late for his next appointment so I'm going to make sure we have a timely discussion and secondly to use a an American baseball analogy I get to throw out the first pitch to the minister to get the conversation going I promise it's not going to be a fastball or a curveball Mr. Minister but I'm going to start the discussion and then certainly open to the floor for for a great conversation Mr. Minister you talked about the use of exit strategy and certainly when you were in when you were in Kabul last week you you said you shouldn't be shy about using it but I'd be grateful to have your what's your vision of a successful exit from Afghanistan what does it look like yesterday Foreign Minister Vestivelli noted that the the German government would seek a framework for the withdrawal of its forces from Afghanistan to become visible during this particular parliament which as we know ends in 2013 so obviously we're we're interested in that vision and the second part of seeking your vision is that you have been as many others have critical of President Karzai and his lack of focus on corruption is it a smart tactical strategy to publicly point these issues out while you need the Karzai government to be successful if we are to turn over greater responsibility so that's the fastball Mr. Minister thank you very much is always a challenge for German to understand baseball analogies but on first of all in your last question I think being silent is is even is an even worse option and of not addressing things everybody actually knows the president knows the government knows to that they have the obligation to handle that it in a proper way and I think we are now in a phase where we have to make clear what our goals are and what the goals for the Afghan governments are and on the on the question of a successful handover in responsibility I'm deliberately not using the word exit strategy right now I think one well-known point is successful training and training and in that regard giving the the Afghan the Afghan security that's called a person maybe the Afghan National Army made the police forces and others the possibility and the option to take care for their security itself and themselves and and in that regard that's part of a successful handover in in responsibility the other one is we have to we have to make clear what is what is the goal is is the overall goal to still have the dream of a well established democracy Western style or of a somehow stable Afghanistan that still can comply to its traditions and to its culture and to the experiences others and we have had with Afghanistan as I think we have reached a couple of limits here and and so stability may be defined from one or the other a bit differently and in Germany the debate is quite clear that the goal of the expectation that Afghanistan will function like a put it now in quotation marks like a Western democracy could be at least difficult and and and and his difficulty we have to keep in mind and and so the question at the end of the day will be can we avoid endlessly any any occurrences or any any any any any also also and internal fights in the future in Afghanistan is that our goal yes or no is that the principle that we stay there indefinitely and so this is my my point Dennis we have to make when I'm talking about benchmarks I mean benchmarks which that don't reach that far because otherwise we will never reach any result thank you Mike please and we'll make sure get a microphone coming to you oh no no right I'm sorry over here sorry come in thank you I'm Mike also from Johns Hopkins size and McClarty Association's consulting welcome minister you said that you're eagerly awaiting President Obama's decision on basically what sort of surge we should do in Afghanistan my question very simple as the Obama administration has gone through this lengthy process of analysis has it solicited Germany's opinion in a systematic and in-depth way certainly today and also doing the last couple of weeks but we have to keep in mind that it's a we have been in a in an interesting position in Germany during the last couple of months as well there was as you all know our campaigning period and and sometimes one or the other may have been distracted from such questions as well so and but looking at the face of the ambassador I think there has been a very close contact and and also the repeated attempt to hear our opinion and and to get known to our structural thinking and also to get our impressions what we are doing in our region in in Afghanistan and see north and and and there I don't see any any deficits in that regard where we have to work on also for the future is that we optimize communication lines in Afghanistan that we that we try our best to to combine the civil and the military efforts there but as a very positive result of our consultations and of our constant rethinking of the respective strategies I see a remarkable amount of aspects in this in in the strategy we have we have we have heard at I think it was in April this year or May this year that come very close to what we have called at the beginning the comprehensive approach and I certainly recall the one or the other smile in faces of American friends over here as well what the hell are they meaning with the comprehensive approach what a typical German idea how could you dare to combine civil and military aspects and so on and so on and I think there was a fruitful discussion afterwards and that some of those ideas have fallen fruit for grants bill the microphone over here I'm Bill Grozniak president of the American Council on Germany Mr. Minister welcome as you know one of the biggest complaints about German forces in Afghanistan is that they have operated under caveats tight restrictions in their deployment so are you after your next last trip prepared to recommend to the new German government that you lift some of these caveats and enable them the commanders to have more flexibility in deploying German forces and second point on police training which has been largely the responsibility of German and European forces in the past is considered to be one of the biggest failures of the Afghanistan policy in the last few years what are the lessons learned what can we do better in terms of training the police forces in Afghanistan thank you very much Bill on the letter I think the police training is more and more a success story now but we need to we need to match the goals and and we are still too far away from the 400 trainers we need to see in Afghanistan I think that's not only a matter of the Germans but also some European partners who could be a bit faster and and so to really get to that point nevertheless wherever this police training is taking place it is functioning and is working we have also in this regard a coordination challenge to combine the different philosophies of police training let's say very mildly that the American philosophy of police training is a bit distinct from the one Germans for instance offer and although I understand the criticism that a police the future police officer in Afghanistan and that's not first-handedly need the experience how to how to conduct the traffic in his village but there may be other options that he needs to he needs to do and but this is it's it's a footnote with a smile in the face and I think it's but what we need to do is to coordinate a bit more clearer and the different styles of training and both make sense and both have I think both have have have have clear have clear goals in that regard on the caveats and the complaints to be very honest I had Frank and very open talks during the last couple of weeks with responsible and specifically gentlemen in in Kabul with with those in with those having responsibility for ISAP and other things and I haven't heard the complaints any longer we have heard for a while and that is because I think because we have we have made clear that the German soldiers are not any longer in the north only to dig holes for water and to wave to to Afghan children and it's it's more and more that we are also in in in in in in combat situations we we have our casualties there as well we have and we have learned that the spectrum is definitely wider then we offered it to the public in Germany for one and there was probably also a reason that many of our partners thought that's what the Germans are doing and we have certainly done much more than just the civil aspect of sending our soldiers down there and I think it's well known that we have that that we have for instance a responsibility for the quick reaction force in in the DC north and the troops I'm sending down there now that the additional troops are additional troops specifically also for those security elements and so the caveat discussion is probably still a to a certain extent not only an academic one we can lead this caveat discussion more or less with any single partner within NATO at one time we have also looked for caveats within the American strategy as such and we surprisingly found some and I think it's it's but this is one of those things where we what I stress before with mutual finger pointing I think we should be much clearer about the substance we are offering and I think the Germans are offering quite a lot of substance in specifically in the in the RC and maybe just at one point the question why are you not part of the southern part of Afghanistan has really not played a role any longer during the last weeks I'm not in the position yes the gentleman right there thank you very much my name is Taitzafar Hashemi from Voice of America Afghanistan service I had two questions first of all regarding future commitments of Germany in Afghanistan after you're going to deploy more troops in Afghanistan where they will be stationed and will they be doing combat or not or only training and the second question is what's what's your thoughts on general McChrystal's recent report on Afghanistan and especially when it comes to increasing troops in Afghanistan thanks the first question was wisely set and please don't expect an answer because the decision has not been made yet and and the decision specifically the second part of your question where exactly will German troops be in the future is can only be part of answering the first one and the first one as I said before will be answered yes or no after the Afghanistan conference so that's where we are right now but I said that we are willing and probably also capable to reassess our existing mandate but it depends on the substance we see then and we get we have delivered at this time on McChrystal's concept I clearly understand his concept not only as one that focuses on numbers of troops but that gives also an indication that there's much more to cover and this is why I welcome specifically his is the civilian means he's offering in his concept and I am very much in favor of of the clear perspective on regional on regional topics and and and and and regional ties he wants to build and build up what respect of the numbers he is he is offering now getting to the troop numbers and getting to those numbers he wants to see trained in the future let's call it ambitious it's quite a number thank you there is a gentleman way in the back you guys Christopher Marshall from the German daily the target spiel I would like to come back to the German influence on the decision making on the future strategy in Afghanistan of course I understand one side which you already elaborated on we are all partners in the Alliance equal terms so everybody has a say in it on the other hand the ratio of the burden is shifting to the not to the not to Europe side at the beginning of this year we had a ratio of soldiers one to one US on one side all other NATO partners together at the moment we are at two-thirds to one-third next year we were probably around 70 to 75% American troops only one-quarter European troops and in Germany we have the pro-werep we had such have done same in in the United States who pays the bills has a little bit more say than the other guys and how does this shift of burden sharing influences the decision making thank you for Marsha there is certainly let's say an earlier decision of the future strategy by the yes that for instance by some European partners and specifically by Germany one of the reasons may be the timelines we are in and that the new government has just fought the question whether and how how to handle this and and what it could also mean for the institutions that are that that that from the rooftop over this over this operations there is I think still unresolved because we have no clue yet under under which kind of missions the Americans will deploy more troops yes or no what will be part of ISAP what will be part of OEF for instance and and and and the decision within NATO is one that has to be linked to ISAP clearly and and that and then we will probably have a intense and hopefully substantive discussion at the beginning of December within the NATO Council which is taken place I think that force a third of force of December and and there's I think there's a good chance I don't know it yet but there's a good chance that we may see a decision of the US before so this has to be taken into account and and and and the willingness and the ability of of any troop numbers is is I think not only guided by the principle who is sending the most is the one who is who can who can put endless pressure on others on others to cohere on the same level then I think it's a question whether a partner partner state is exceptionally able and capable to do so and that we find our our that we find it in coherence with all principles and the things we need to manage that up to this time so the discussion will be one one part of the discussion will be starting within the NATO within the NATO structures at the beginning of December and this would also be one of the cornerstones for any of the decisions that have to be made afterwards thank you there's a gentleman right here I'm Jerry Livingston from the German Historical Institute Mr. Minister may thank you for your straightforwardness in your talk and in answer to your question the questions at least so far let me take you away from Afghanistan and ask you something about the EU-NATO relationship when President Obama abandoned the missile proposed missile defense shield in Poland in Czechoslovakia he rushed Vice President Biden off to Poland in Czechoslovakia to reassure them what would you say if the US government came to you as a EU state and said primary responsibility for the defense and security policy of Eastern Europe should be in the hands of the EU after all that's your front yard that's your bailiwick and that's where the EU should live up the responsibility to which you referred in your talk thank you very much think the EU is taking over more and more responsibility in different structures and with different structures and and nevertheless nevertheless we should not we should not we should not be too we should not minimize the existing structures of NATO and those those countries you have just talked about are member states of NATO and if we understand the NATO structures correctly defense and deterrence are still main pillars within NATO so it could be seen at least equally as as a platform to act and to react nevertheless I think the decision has was a understandable and also wise decision because the discussion debate about about missile defense under the under the under the last administration here in the US has caused let's call it disturbances within Europe and and also within those countries involved in it and if I now look at the new missile defense strategy I see a responsible and I think also understandable path we are we are marching together and if we find a way and this will be also part of the discussions for next year to tie to NATO structures this new missile defense issue then it could be a benefit for all of us and and and the European Union again is is is trying to find and and to formulate and also to act in defense structures that show growing responsibility but that should that are showing still also certain certain deficits of course and and and again the relationship between a NATO and EU still needs to find stable grounds it's we all recall the Berlin plus arrangement and we all recall how difficult it can be from time to time if in both in in both areas NATO and EU there's still some partners like Greek Greece like Cyprus and like Turkey for instance and to try to find their playing grounds within the responsibilities that we should see in another dimension thank you Reggie hello I'm Reggie Dale yes my question actually follows almost directly on from what you just said the EU is at this very moment I don't know if the dinner is still going on in Brussels but they are in the process of implementing the institutional changes agreed under the Lisbon Treaty and once they've done that and there is a president of the European Council and a high representative for foreign and security policy in the security field will that help to have a more increased cooperation inside the EU will it help to have a voice to talk to the United States which is perhaps expresses a more coherent EU policy and will it help in resolving this question of our relations between EU and NATO the matter of coherence is one that depends on the willingness of 27 member states and and and in that in that regard everyone who is who has the the instruments to coordinate properly will be highly welcome and I don't have to stress the again again quoted incited sentence of of of the phone number in Europe again and again as well and the person who is tied to that sentence denies that he has ever said that but there could be one of those and I think it could be seen as being helpful I've just attended a couple of days ago within the last gasps of these structures a a defense and foreign ministers meeting or foreign defense ministers meeting to say it correctly in Brussels where we had introductory remarks by by Anders Rasmussen by by Javier Solana and by Benita Ferreiro what an interesting scenery and how interesting the substance of those introductory remarks everybody very cautious not to undermine or just to undermine the respective part and and if those structures could be a bit more effective I think it would be of the benefit for all of us that the rumors I've just heard on I think it was it was the last the last on the Blackberry of the ambassador but it was just rumors was that Mrs. Ashton is being seen as the next as the next foreign or the first foreign minister of of of the EU I cannot I cannot I cannot clarify it yet but also quite a surprise and I still try to understand the last tactical moves of the Brits during the last couple of days but but I think it's okay but I think it's it's good news and and they should be seen as a chance Mr. Minister I think we have to have one more question because I won't do the first part of my job which is keeping you on time if we take much more them I'll have you had the last question there are not only shared values but also shared interests that we all have to look at. Still coming from the western Balkans, the Montenegro, transit relationships are the most important for us and we see them as a framework of security in a near and medium-term future. How do you see, could you be so kind and elaborate, how do you see the expansion of NATO and the collective security and burial for Europe in the near term. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I do emphasize again the the importance of of the transit relationship also in respect of what I've said to the Trans-Pacific sphere we're talking about. On expansion of NATO we have had the discussions we have had in respect of Georgia and Ukraine. We have the results we have found and let's say an interesting way of handling some of, yeah, let's say the accession structures of NATO. When it comes to other to other expansion or expansive next steps within NATO there is an ongoing discussion on whether to offer map for instance to Montenegro and also to Bosnia-Herzegovina. I do have the expectation that at least one of of those two countries has a certain chance to have map offered. Maybe also in the next meeting we are going to have. Nevertheless, I see on one hand very hopeful and very good signals in the western Balkans in different parts of the western Balkans I also see a certain amount of stagnation. And some let's say some hopes we have had so far have not been fulfilled yet and specifically when it comes to constitution building, when it comes to police building and other things and to the question whether for instance in Bosnia we need to keep the OHR yes or no. And this will be one of the discussions for instance for the next weeks and months to come. The expansion of NATO is one that has to be clearly bound to criteria and we have to meet those criteria and those who seek membership in NATO need to fulfill those criteria. Again, this is a very boring answer to a very difficult question. And I certainly recall the difficulties we have had on both sides of the Atlantic when it came to explain how euphoric we need to be specifically with Georgia and Ukraine. And it's probably not the last discussion we have led in that way. But it certainly was one of the discussions I have enjoyed today in this very specific round here. Thank you. Mr. Minister, thank you so much for your candid conversation. And we so appreciated having you here on a very quick trip to Washington. We look forward to welcoming you back many times. If I can just ask that everyone remain seated until the minister and the delegation depart and then we thank you all for coming and being with us here at CSIS today. Would you please join me in giving a round of applause to the minister.