 Okay, so we've got everyone is also online and we'll get started I'll use a little bit Chinese大家好歡迎來到財新變略今天從答我四直播 Good morning and welcome everyone to this year's Taixin debate live on Davos again I'm very excited. I'm leashing and the topic today is China investment and economic outlook something that almost all Economist Journalist and business community are watching very closely every day Of course, it's a rather unusual year the war in Ukraine the coffee flare up in several Chinese cities inflation you name it but also not to mention is a very crucial political year to in China but in challenging times you always look for opportunities and we have a panel very good at that and From multinational financial institutions from market experts from academia and online virtually from the private sector in China Let me quickly introduce to you our panelists and I will start with the quick question for each one of them for each one of them So the first gentleman on my left hand side is Marcos Trejo the president of new development Bank formerly Brazil's deputy economic minister and Special secretary for foreign trade and international affairs. It has been a fun year Marcos. So out of the five countries of Ndb What's your forecast on the GDP growth this year? See me. It's a pleasure to be here and once again join the a kai scene discussion so the new development Bank was set up by the BRICS countries and we've also Embarked in a process of membership expansion. So we have now four new members We're looking at GDP expansion in China north of five percent India is going to grow close to nine percent Brazil is going to grow at around two percent South the same for South Africa. Russia is obviously going to have a very severe contraction in its economy out of the new member countries Bangladesh growing north of seven percent Egypt 5.5 Uruguay at around three percent in the UAE At four point five percent. So if we're talking about economies like China India Brazil that featured within the 10 top GDP economies of the world a robust still a robust growth for 2022 that's a pretty encouraging message to start with Move on to our John Tuttle in the middle Vice chairman and chief commercial officer of New York Stock Exchange Group So John how many Chinese companies are currently listing the YSE and how many you would see still there within let's say two years? Good question Well, I think it's helpful just pull the lines back for first for a moment So we have 2,400 listed companies on the New York Stock Exchange about 20% of them are from outside the United States Representing 46 different countries the country the most is Canada natural fit neighbor to the north But the country with the second most listings is China and so, you know This the relationship between the New York Stock Exchange in China is about 35 years old and really took off in 1987 when our chairman Traveled there and met with Deng Xiaoping, but we have in the US markets in general We have about 240 companies from China that are listed in the on a US exchange about 82 of those are listed on the New York Stock Exchange. What's interesting though is From the last time we gathered here in Davos just over two years ago, we've actually seen that number rise 20% So we've seen a lot of companies from China list in the United States going forward over the next two years I'm encouraged those numbers will will stay where they are if not grow that's another very encouraging message to hear we'll watch the number very closely and The next gentleman is Jonathan Crain CEO of Korean shares the first US asset manager a hundred percent focusing on China And when I visit their website, this says we believe the relationship between the United States and China would be the most important economic Partnership of our lifetimes How would you describe the current status of this particular important relationship this year in a few words? Thank You Lin Chen It's very very nice to be here today, and I should also add that your crane shares is US asset manager based in New York City in our we're majority owned by CICC Which is the largest investment bank in China So we live the US-China relations every day So we understand that very well, and I think US and China are very co-dependent around, you know, the the markets around trade around globalization Our S&P 500 companies the US their growth is China and they're you know expanding within China China is dependent on US investment coming in into the markets and into the country So there's there's a co-dependency, but you have the number one and number two Economies in the world, and there's going to be a natural tension going forward And I think from an economic standpoint business standpoint, there's a lot of interest in in doing business together I think on the political side there needs to be more understanding and I think if these countries US and China can become closer with better understanding I think it's better for the world's economy and peace So I think this relationship is vital going forward. Thank you And the next one is Professor Juning deputy dean and professor of finance Shanghai Advanced Institute of Finance and At Shanghai Jiao Dong University I mentioned Shanghai twice. So professor. Drew. How is the COVID flare-up in Shanghai now? Well, first of all, I would like to thank Tsai Xin for the invitation again And I think the life in Shanghai has gradually come back to normal as evidenced by Marcos and Amaya presence being here So I mean yes We didn't make out of the city and it's not as bad as people are thinking about right now That being said I think I mean the disruption in the consumption scenarios in the supply chain And the in people's confidence and expectation is still ongoing I think it's taking some time before things are fully going back to be fully normal, but I am quite a confident about that Thank you, professor. Chu and online We have Gong Ying Ying joined virtually the founder chairwoman and CEO of edu tech and they describe themselves as an artificial intelligence and human intelligence driven medical research and services company based in Beijing listed in Hong Kong So how are you Ying Ying and since you're in Beijing? How many of your colleagues are currently working from home now? First of all, thank you for inviting me and thank you for the question These you were a pet company. So since 2020 we have adopted a flexible working system That allows people to choose how they want to work, but having that system You really need to have a lot of you know The project management system the cell system meeting rooms online and And to drive everybody to work efficiently and having them have the flexibility to choose how they want to work So so that's been very challenging for me over the past a few years And one thing I do want to share with everybody is that a haven't you know really make my mission very clear Which is making you know precision health care Accessible to everyone and that we have to keep reminding our people and either they're at workplace or at home and And so they know what they're working for and and so, you know, how you work where you work become less important So now we have employees across 26 provinces and also in four different countries and It seems that we're working efficiently and very well Yeah, call it definitely accelerated digitalization and read more work also in China. So thanks all with the first hand observations and Your quick takes from your specific perspective I want to switch to a slightly broader overview in the last two years a lot of changes happen Almost feel like black swan becomes the norm. Something is going to happen So what are if you just described overall, what are the key destabilizing Factors for Chinese economy that are you observed? Let me start with Professor Juning Right, so I I think I mean destabilizing is a word which you sort of use stabilization or stability as the the normal as the expectation but then I think things are Changing quite dramatically in China not necessarily in the past few years or as a response to the COVID situation I think China is undergoing or has been undergoing very fundamental and very important changes in the past five or six years already I think the the key thing in my view as an economist is we're going from a high speed of growth model gradually trying to transition into a high quality growth model I think this is something that New not only to China but also to the rest of the world So let me just quickly elaborate on that I think in the past we really care about the growth speed and I will always pride ourselves With what have been growing at 8% and faster But now I think in the past few years if you reach the officials read out from the government carefully enough You'll hear more words about preventing systematic financial risks. You'll hear more words about a common prosperity You'll hear more words about carbon picking and carbon neutrality So those are new things which are adding more dimensions to China's growth model Which in my view I think it's not only necessary But also healthy because China has been growing at such a great speed for so long that people have taken it for granted Well, China should be growing at this fast speed into the future. This is linear thinking. This is very human nature However, we have to keep in mind that China has been facing a lot of challenges by growing this fast some of that including The the the very high housing prices which is hurting that the birth rate to China is now reaching a fairly low birth rate in the past few years and also China's national level of debt has been increasing Especially after the COVID so I think there are some challenges which are coming along with the fast or Superfast growth model which China has been using. So I think China is now going into a new mode Where I think we're more sustainable with more financial risks under control We're more inclusive. So the emphasis on common prosperity We're trying to include as many people as we can We have been eliminating over a hundred million people or lifting them out of poverty and also for the eco friendly I think China is really I think proud of proud of itself in making the commitment Which few developing country have made about we're trying to make planet earth a much better place for us to live Not just for Chinese citizens, but for global people So I think this is very important and the healthy changes taking place in China It could be a little bit new or unpredictable to foreign players or foreign companies to foreign Investors, however, I think if we're looking this from a longer perspective I think this is giving more quality more Sustainability more sustainability and more resilience to China's economy. So in that regard, yes It is different, but I think it is different for a good reason Thank you, Neng and I want to hear how Jonathan is observing that trend that Neng just described the change of the year the change of growing more growth model together with some growth Yeah, absolutely. So I think you know China experience with with the world experience, you know in a very, you know being stress tested over the last couple years with with covid And I think they responded very well at the initial stages where a lot of people got back to work. I mean China I think was the only country in 2020 to have a positive GDP and then in 2021, I think that you know GDP was high single digits This year covid with the lockdowns in Shanghai and in Jilin and some other cities is definitely creating challenges with with supply chain And with issues and and I think, you know, they'll there's time to still hit the GDP numbers this year So covid covid definitely was was, you know, a major a major challenge. The other is was regulations, you know, last year China put a focused a lot on regulations a lot around the internet technology industry with with anti trust and And cyber security and measures like that that were, you know, were meant to for long term healthy growth of that sector but put a lot of downward pressure on the markets And there was a big correction in the in the China markets because of that. And I think they they use last year as an opportunity, especially it was You know dirt dirt with with a lot of challenges around covid to do this and and set set up a stronger, you know, the internet technology industry for the for the long term. But I think the the world saw the the markets Come down and now have, you know, obviously valuations have come down and I think are interesting entry points now. But I think that also Was challenged. Thank you. Thank you. And well, is that a good entry point? Is that how is perceived on the capital markets? How the capital market is perceiving? Yeah, definitely. I mean, look, they're they're historical Valuation lows right now in especially in the internet sector. You know, if you if you believe in the 1.4 billion consumer of China and the growth of the middle class. You know, the internet technology sector that is the the transmission engine for that consumption. So, you know, I think a lot of people are looking at that sector for for an entry point. Is it true, John? I would say there has been an adverse impact on the Chinese economy over the past two years. Picking up a little bit off what Jonathan said. So first of all, because of supply chain disruptions, US and global corporates are looking to diversify their supply chain sources as well. So instead of having that kind of single destination of China, they are now diversifying, which could have an adverse impact. Now on the capital market side as well to Jonathan's point, the markets are down. So if you look at from last time we were here and you take kind of an index of Chinese companies listed in the United States, they're down 21% right now from where we were two years ago. The S&P is up 21%. So there's been this big divergence in the in the markets. What I think is very important is making sure that there's clarity around regulation because that is what global investors want. Many of these kind of great technology companies coming out of China, these exciting companies that are changing the way we work and live, they're going to need to access capital outside of our borders. And so having more certainty around the regulatory landscape and the legal landscape will will better serve investors who will, are going to be the ones that are allocating companies to fuel even more growth, both domestically in China and globally for these companies. Thank you. And, Marcus, you deal with a lot of FDI investors. Is that the same sentiment? Do you want more clarity on regulation? In reality, I think the big story here is not necessarily what's happening this past two years, but the structural metamorphosis of China's economy. Because it is fair to say that from 1978 up until very recently, China was very much based upon this export-oriented approach that was successful in China and successful in other countries of Southeast Asia. A very high percentage of savings as a share of GDP. That is changing a lot. So the nature of FDI into China is going to shift as well. China is a low-cost country. China now leads the world in so many areas that are tech-intensive. Look at the numbers of new patents that come out of China going into the intellectual property organization. So this metamorphosis of China towards more value addition, towards a bigger share of GDP going to research, development, and innovation. And the fact now that even China is going to other countries for its supply chain when it comes to, for example, the most efficient use of the combination between labor and capital will determine the kind of FDI that will go into China. But the numbers are still very robust. I mean, China will keep on being one of the top two destinations for FDI for a long time to come. And even with this change of economic model in China, a lot of opportunities will be generated for boosting supply chains or value chains with different countries of the world. Look, for example, at the Brazil-China relations. I'm from Brazil. Back in 2002, Brazil-China trade was $2 billion a year. Now Brazil-China trade is $20 billion every 100 hours. So it's been a dramatic expansion given this structural shift in China's economic growth model. Thank you. So basically what's changed is more the reality of the globalization and also the size and the nature of the Chinese economy. Yeah, I mean, this scale makes a lot of difference. For example, if you're talking about a China that's growing, 12% out of a $2 trillion nominal GDP, the contribution that China would advance to the formation of global demand was $240 million. Now if you're talking about an economy that's $15 trillion GDP nominally, and you're growing at 5%, actually your contribution is three times the size when compared to the one of two decades ago. So size does matter. China is already the biggest economy of the world when it comes to GDP measure that purchasing power parity terms. We're still a couple of years away from the nominal take over to happen in terms of China US. But once again, a structural change that will probably keep on China at the forefront of economic growth for the years to come. Thanks. Thanks, Marcos. And like Marcos described, size matters. And what making that size of the huge Chinese economy are private sector companies or the state-owned companies. So as a building blocks, let's turn to Yingying how all those changes we described affecting you and the private sector you observed. Yeah, so the market hasn't been friendly to tech companies like us. But I spend a lot of time asking myself the question, where is the market? And do I have the great talents? Do I have a great technology? And are they long term enough? Do I have enough capital? And those are the things I can manage. And I can make a difference. And I see a lot of digitalization across our health care industry over the past two years. And it's accelerating the public health management, research, drug development. And we see great, great technology coming out of that. And I would see great outcomes as well. And I think over the long time, it's about the value that you provide for the industry that really set out the value of the company. And that's how I see things. And I'm still very optimistic over the long term that I think this whole digitalization infrastructure will provide a lot of opportunities for many, many companies like myself. And it will also provide great technology for the entire world. Thank you. Thank you, Yingying. And come back a little bit, zoom out on the bigger trends. I want to ask Professor Juning. People still have a lot to worry on Chinese economy this year. COVID, we just mentioned, is one of them. And then the slow consumption and then the whether export can be as strong as the previous two years when the rest of the world are coming back on the supply chain. So do you think there are still enough tools in the regulators toolbox to tackle all these challenges and continue boosting the economy? Well, I think the short answer is yes. And I want to follow up on Marcos' earlier comments about even in the past couple of few years, I think China's contribution to the global GDP growth is over 25% a quarter. So that's bigger than most of the time, bigger than the combined contribution from India and the US, typically the number two and number three global economy powerhouses. So I think that's still saying that the power, the dynamism in China's economy. And China has been known for having a large and active government. And the government has been very pro-business pro-growth in the past. So even though I think there's some short-term headwind or short-term fluctuation, I think that's not to forget. Chinese government has not tapped any of the non-traditional fiscal or monetary policies yet, unlike many of the Western governments. So we have been reducing rent, reducing taxes for small and medium enterprises. But we have not reached the point of giving out money yet. But that is an option. And some local governments in China have already started experimenting with giving out consumption coupons, which have been proved to be useful in helping economic and household consumption. So I think that is quite important. And on the monetary side, unlike most of the central banks which reduce the interest rate to close to zero threshold, I think China's interest rate has been remaining in the more normal 2.5% of the range. So that means that China is still having a lot of room if it wants to lower interest rate to give monetary stimulus to the economy. So I think in that regard, I think we have a lot of tools in the two boxes for now. But with that said, I think I do want to follow up. Again, I think size is really important. So compared to 2008, right after the global financial crisis, China's economy is more than three times close to four times as big right now as it was some 14, 15 years ago. So even the same amount of stimulus from the government will not have the same marginal impact on the growth. So we have to be realistic with, even if we could have another 4 trillion stimulus packages, which I am not so sure. But many people are making this analogy. Even if we are going to have that kind of stimulus, we're not going to have the same kind of impact on the economic growth as we saw in 2009 and 2010. Very interesting. And then thanks for sharing a very important macro overview. And then the headwinds that you mentioned, one of the headwinds that people pay a lot of attention to, like John mentioned, is basically tightening on the tech sector. So Jonathan, you've been observing the Chinese market for a long time. How do you think the tightening on the tech sector is affecting the global investors' perception of the China market? And also, like you said, is now the buying time now? Is that over? Is the visibility of regulation in sight? Yeah, so I think it's important to set a context when talking about the tightening. I actually don't call it tightening, but the regulations that come on the internet sector. So first of all, the China internet technology sector is 40% of China's GDP. You have 1.4 billion consumers, 700 million middle class now, consuming through these internet technology names. I mean, we all know of Alibaba, Badoo, Tencent. But there's a whole group of smaller companies now, innovative coming up. So the sector is going to grow, but also the consumer is growing. So in this whole sector has grown a lot tremendously in the last 10 years. So I don't look at it so much as the tightening of this sector. I think it's more providing regulations that really are around anti-monopoly, antitrust, cyber security, regulations that came in that really are going to set up this sector for long-term, stronger growth. And I think that's how the Chinese government was looking at it. And it's only natural. We do that in the United States. Europe's doing it. So instead of this being negative, and yes, there was downward pressure on the markets. I'll give you an example of a lot in the educational technology. Education is very important in China. And a lot of money was being spent by consumers in education technology. Some of these regulations were actually celebrated by consumers in China. It made it much more affordable, even though the markets put downward pressure on some of these companies. So I think long-term, this was healthy. It has created an interesting entry point. We talked about it before, where these valuations have come way down. But we also see the same thing that put downward pressure on the sector is actually the same driver that's going to put the sector back on track. And that's government regulations and policy, basically. So you've heard in the last couple months, President Xi and Premier Li and Vice Premier Liu He all come out and say that they're supporting this internet technology sector. They'll be stimulus. And so I think the regulations were meant to be healthy long-term. And then now you're seeing all the high-level officials talk about how they're supporting the sector. Look, it's 40% of GDP. It's a big part of China's future. And it's how this 1.4 billion consumers interact every day. That's their daily lives through these companies. Thank you. So it's a regulation more of a catch-up and long-term oriented. Ning, you have something to add? Yes, I just want to quickly follow up on what Jonathan said about, I think many of the policy changes to China's platform companies or internet companies are not that different with what has been happening to the giant tech companies in the West. If you think about the differentiated pricing, if you think about the barriers to innovation, if you think about the labor conditions, I think it's largely in line with it's not just about China. It's more of a global phenomenon about how we tackle the giant tech companies, which is a new phenomenon in the global economy. So in that regard, I think China is not different, but actually quite a joining force with the global practice in trying to find the better approach to regulate and to foster the growth of such companies. Thank you. So it's part of the global trend. While we have you, Ning, another hot-button issue I want to comment on is people watch about the real estate sector very closely in China. And that is described as a tightening. But we see signs of loosening in a couple of Chinese provinces and cities around and computer loosening up a little bit. What will be the next outlook of the real estate sector? Yeah, I'm probably regarded one of the big critical of China's housing prices and all the housing sector. I think the curbing policy on the housing sector is relaxing. I think in two different areas. For the supply side, for the real estate developers, I think the financing to the real estate developers are being relaxed. So I think for those developers which have been cash-stranded, I think now they're receiving some of the much needed cash flow support from the banks, from the bond issuance, and from some of the foreign markets. And also, I think on a different city level, the curbing policy, the qualification for buying, selling, and getting a finance to buy an apartment has been gradually relaxed. So in that regard, I think the policy has been more relaxed right now compared to six months ago. And that being said, I think there are still two things we have to be very realistic about. One is I think China's housing price to income ratio, price to rent ratio is still quite out of whack compared to the international standard. So whether that is going to gradually converge to the international norm or that is going to remain that high, I think that remains to be seen. So I think that's a bigger fundamental information we have to think about. The second is I think about expectation. I think expectation has been one thing which the Central Economic Working Conference emphasized on last December. So where is the housing price is so high? Do people still have the belief that housing price will keep rising in many cities of the country? I think that will be a very key factor determining or influencing China's willingness to buy another apartment going forward. Thank you. So price is too high and the expectation is to be managed. And I want to switch onto another bright spot or the very hot button spot, decarbonization. So there have been a massive campaign on decarbonization. The pressure comes not from the government but also from a lot of international investors as well. So from that angle, John, I want to ask you what Chinese companies should know about the rising standard from the global investors on ESG and decarbonization? Sure. And if I could just take a step back for one moment just to follow up on a comment that Jonathan made around the regulation that's taking place in China right now. I think embedded in that is an assumption by everybody that the Chinese government is obviously acting in the best interest near medium and long term of the population with regard to the regulation. What is impacting the market though and the sentiment of international investors is the communication of those strategies. And so having what would be viewed by global investors as very short timelines or if not surprises in things like changing regulation in education, in ride sharing, in cyber, I'm sorry, in technology companies from the Cyber Security Review Board. Now another way you're going to attract a lot of international investors is having a focus on ESG. And there's a lot of studies out there but the most recent one I saw was 40% of institutional capital deployed over the past 12 months was tied to some sort of ESG mandate. Now that can vary how intense the ESG mandate is from kind of a basic screening to in-depth analyses done by institutional investors. But to continue to attract foreign direct investment into China and to the Chinese markets, we strongly encourage our Chinese issuers and those companies that are thinking about tapping the international capital markets to have a good grasp on ESG and be reporting statistics around their climate footprint, their decarbonization, that their sustainability programs as well because that will again attract those global institutional investors and that can be everything from your large global asset managers like the Black Rocks of the world to the pension funds, to even smaller asset managers whose LPs, their limited partners capital may be tied to that fund having some sort of ESG mandate. So we're in constant dialogue with companies from China and from around the world to make sure that they're able to tell their story with the right metrics and in the right way to the global investor base to help attract more focus because if we were here two years ago that number was below 40%, it's at 40% now and it's only gonna continue to climb. Yeah, thank you. And Marcus, from your standpoint, how do you see the change of awareness and capacity on ESG in China on the ground? I see China at the forefront growth at the discussion of ESG practices but also in terms of policy implementation. What I think China wants and I think this is true about other emerging markets as well, is some of the ESG standards or rules should be multilateral defined. It should not be a top-down approach from some countries to others. So it's something that is collectively built. But I mean, this attachment of China to promoting best practices in ESG is one of the reasons why for the first five years our institution was able to direct 25% of everything with finance to climate-oriented projects. And in this next cycle of five years we've just adopted the new strategy. We're going up to 40%. So whether you're talking about wind energy, energy transition, solar panels, a number of ESG-friendly technologies, China's at the forefront as well. One of the most important contributions we get to how we define the new development and going forward is a result of China's positive influence in ESG practices. Almost doubled in that five-year plan from 25% to 40%. And Yingying, let me turn to you. One trend people watch China very closely is the looming demographic challenges and that made healthcare a really hot sector as well. So can tech provide solutions to China's demographic and ageing problem? For sure. That's the thesis of our company. And our solution is already being used by hundreds of clients around the world and for patient management, drug development, and clinical services and so on and so forth. I can just give you a specific example. They say a drug is $1 billion in 10 years. Recently we just shortened a rare diseases drug, phase two trial by 20 months just using our disease knowledge graph for better trial design, better clinical trial execution and that more intelligent patient enrollment. And that scholar value finally transferred to the final patients. So you think it's already very viable and we have a lot of great outcomes for public health management, drug development. So yes, for sure. Thank you. So we talk a lot about what's going on inside China from sectors, from the economy, this and that. But there's a lot happening outside China as well. What are the global trends that affecting Chinese economy from externally? So inflation for crisis supply chain just like our previous panel just mentioned supply chain on-shoring or near-shoring or somebody called a French shoring. So Marcos, how would you see the external factors impacting China? So I think that the rerouting of global value chains is absolutely one of those trends. I'd rather use the expression value chains than supply chains because this goes much beyond the issue of supply. It means that new marketing centers, no research and development centers are being set up around the world which will create new areas of attachment and cooperation. And I think here in this particular regard we will see a lot of decoupling but we will see a lot of neocoupling as well, connections that were not there before and that are made possible both for China's economic scale but also because of China's economic sophistication. Once again China's investment for example in research and development is reaching close to a level that's observed in OECD countries. So once again this value addition that you see in global chains as far as China's concerned will be one of the most important magnets in attracting new investments to China and creating opportunities across the emerging market world. Thank you. So decoupling and neocoupling. Neocoupling, yeah. So some of the sectors that have been sort of bonded together over the past few decades will definitely divorce, they will separate. This is also natural because of the evolution of the economies of the sectors but other connections that were simply not there will be made possible because of China's economic evolution. Right. What are the global investors' perspective on that moving on in the near and long term, Jonathan? Sure, yeah. So global investors are interested in China but have to be interested in China. It's the second largest economy in the world, second largest equity market, second largest bond market. And it's just getting included in global indexes. So everyone, a few years ago MSCI included China the second largest equity market in the world for the first time in global indexes. So if you look at the benchmarks, MSCI world, China's second largest economy is only 4% of that index. The United States is 60%. So a lot of the global investors don't even, don't have a lot of exposure to China but that has to change as the indexes increase China's inclusion going forward. So we see significant flows, asset flows going into the A-share market as global investors have to rebalance these indexes. That's hundreds of billions of dollars going into the A-share market. We also see inside China institutions buying their equity markets. Okay, that's gonna start increasing. And then it's the fastest growing wealth management asset management market in the world. You're also starting to see financial planning come on board 401K type of plans starting. And so you're gonna see also the consumer starting to do buy and hold investing into the mainland market. So right now the mainland market is maybe four or 5% owned by international investors. That will change. So we see significant interest in China but also investors having to allocate going forward as these benchmarks grow. Then we also see key themes coming out of China. I mean urbanization is a really interesting theme that sets off a lot of investment opportunities. Just an example, China's right now that 60% urbanization will be going about 85%. Hundreds of millions of people moving to cities. United States was 60% urban right after World War II. And then we, our whole middle class grew, the American dream happened. And that's where we see China just beginning. And it creates very interesting thematic type of investing in internet technology, health care, 5G. And then all around the environment and clean tech. I mean China will become a leader around that too. So the consumer of China, we think the world global investors are really trying to figure out how to get that exposure. And so, there's a positive outlook even amongst these sort of challenges around the downward pressure of the markets. I think you'll see increased allocations to China by global investors. Thank you for putting that in the longer horizon. Economies have swings on psychosis or no. And in the challenges we just mentioned and there are also opportunities arising. So behind that, what we see is what we need to find out is the resilience of the economy that we can pinch our hope on. What do you see as the resilience of China's economy, John? A lot of things, but I would say chief among them is 1.4 billion. 1.4 billion people, 100s of millions of entrepreneurs, 1.4 billion consumers, 1.4 billion potential investors. To Jonathan's point, the market has just barely been scratched and there's a tremendous amount of opportunity. Despite regulatory headwinds on both sides of the Pacific and the United States and Beijing, longer term investors seek opportunity and 1.4 billion people, there's a tremendous amount of opportunity. Size matters. It does. And Ning, what do you see from the Chinese perspective? What do you see as the resilience? Well, I think probably two things. One, I mean, the following up on John's comment about is the people. I think people who are willing to work very hard, people who are aspiring for better quality of life and people who are very flexible, resilient and willing to go through a lot of challenges. And then I think there's the government. I think Chinese government is also known to be very pro-gross, pro-active. And then in that regard, I think we have been going through like the 98 global financial, the Southeast Asia financial crisis, the 2008 global financial crisis. We have been going through some of the headwinds, maybe not as much right now because I mean the average growth speed is slower right now. But I think the government has been known for being very pragmatic, being very nimble, being very adaptive to deal with the changing environment. May I jump in? Size matters, but your approach to globalization matters as well. Even if you have 1.4, 1.5 billion people and all of a sudden you close yourself to the rest of the world, your economic performance is going to be hurt. That's not what we see in China. Last year, for example, I remember President Xi Jinping arguing that China would, for the next decade, import $25 trillion. That's openness to globalization. Welcoming FDI at the levels of the China is welcoming right now and setting up those partnerships. That's openness to globalization. If you have one of the key players in the global economy steady in the course in being open to globalization, I think this is a very positive message to be sent out. Thank you. So, size matters, but plus the right attitude, which is openness. To globalization. To globalization, yes. And that's wonderful discussion, really insightful. I enjoyed it a lot. But before wrapping up, I want to give each of our panelists a scenario. If you are invited to give one piece of advice to a specific person, what would you say? I'll start with Marcos. A multinational company wants to expand to China, but have worries in mind, including even a remote potential of sanctions and the supply chain disruptions we just mentioned. What would you say? Well, I think the level of openness in China will continue to be steady or go up. And I think one should have in mind two things. Yes, scale will continue to be extremely relevant, but the sophistication, and this is something our colleagues here of the panel have alluded to, the sophistication of the Chinese domestic market is going to be a constant over the next couple of years. More and more value addition, more and more sophisticated industrial and financial products will be the way to go when you are thinking about China. Yeah, scale and sophistication. And then move on to John. Let's say, I'm sure you asked them many times, if a U.S. investor come to you and once you look for the next opportunity in China, what do you think he should bear in mind? He or she should bear in mind. I think it's the same thing I would tell the investor whether they're investing in China, the United States or anywhere in the world, look at the fundamentals, look at the fundamentals of the company, the management team, the strategy, but also look at the regulatory landscape as well and make sure you have done your diligence before allocating capital that you've been entrusted to help grow. So fundamentals and your own diligence. And Jonathan, we talk about tech a lot. Now a lot of Chinese tech companies are going abroad. So what would you advise a Chinese tech company owner looking to building a global footprint? Sure, I think it's important to localize teams. So whatever country you come into, have local teams with local leadership there that fits in well and can communicate well on the ground to build the operation. I also think China offers, the world's very interested in that we keep talking about this 1.4 billion consumer. So I think what you can also offer partners around the world is be a bridge, a trusted bridge back into China also. So I think focus on bringing something to the table, which is really acting as that bridge that can help partners get entry points into the China market. And then I'd also say trust is very important. I mean, you have to get trust, you gotta give trust. So I think there's gotta be a focus on that. So bridge and trust. And Professor Juning, there are 11 million Chinese graduates heating the market this year in largest in history. Some of them are your students. So what would be your piece of advice to a young Chinese graduate looking for a job? Well, I think they should listen to this panel about the exchange of ideas. And I think they should hopefully, I think that they should remain, and as we discussed in this session, remain positive for the longer term and be prepared for the shorter term. Be prepared and remain positive. Yingying, you have the last word. What would you say to a young Chinese woman just like you wants to start her own company? So I'm a mother of three and my kids needs a lot of my time. And I feel very lucky with two things. One is you really need great partners and a great team that you can rely on because they're time that you're just not available. And secondly, that you need to find something that you feel your kids in the future generation can also benefit. So that keeps the passion going and I'm very motivated to eliminate as many disease as possible with our technology. Thank you. Thank you, Yingying. And with that little personal touch, we have to wrap up our discussion today. Thank you very much for participating. And this is a special year. One thing we need to mention is we commemorated the fifth anniversary of the Nixon visit to China. It's worth remembering that, that the collaborative advantage we had and we can unleash moving forward. Thank you for joining this year's Taixing Debate and I'll see you next year. Thank you.